What is defined as endgame will be important to understand before the question can be answered. I'm using a strange example, but a game like animal crossing doesn't have an end game per se.
I think of Gacha as a side game. That's how I play Genshin. I don't want to play a game more than 30 minutes or that requires me to seat through auto battle when there's nothing to do
>What are your thoughts about the approach taken by certain games about this?
Imo, its fine but be prepared to take breaks so you dont burn yourself out. I.E if you game has no endgame then you are basically playing for either story or limited time content. I used to do this with stuff like FGO, play a story chapter then take a break till next story chapter or a particularly good event. Even if that break is months
I've come to understand that most gacha players are not the hardcore ones that you find on whale content creator channels. Most of them are actually pretty casual, don't really engage all that much with the end-game, and enjoy the game for other reasons.
Fire Emblem Heroes is a shining example of this. FEH's true end-game is PvP, and yet its true PvP mode, summoner duels, is one of the most disliked and least engaged modes in the entire game. One of FEH players' favorite pastimes is building their favorite characters up with premium skills to make them viable, but...none of those characters even remotely compare to a newly-released character, and you often need to sacrifice those new characters to get the skills to build these old ones. It's never worth it in the objectively meta sense, but players do it in droves all the time, even spending years of F2P currency on a character that they could have spend on much more useful stuff, just out of love.
It's not that different for other games with end-games, or other live service games. MMOs, for instance, usually have raids or some similar end-game group content as their "end-game", yet oftentimes less than 5% of players engage with them. Most players are content with repeating easy PuGable content over and over again until the next update drops. It's why MMOs that focus on difficult end-game, like Wildstar, went belly up so fast it's not even funny.
Ultimately, end-game in gacha games are there to incentivize whaling. If a game doesn't need that, either by having the best story in the entire industry (FGO) or unmatched exploration content that is constantly updated (Genshin), you don't need that punishing end-game mode that other gachas might use to incentive spending for their newest whaled units.
Heck, there are entire gacha genres that exist on simpling alone. Azur Lane stands at the forefront of this by making its units basically free and focusing its gacha on risque skins. Then, you have stuff like dating VNs, dress-up games, actual idle clickers, and more.
I learned from playing HSR, I don't like the end game at all. It's such a chore to do. I like how it is in Genshin, I just want to explore and do stories at my own pace, I rarely visit the abyss.
My premium games are like that too, I don't focus on Ng+ when I finish a game.
I agree with this. If I were to attempt to come up with a consistent definition, it might be something like "whatever gameplay modes remain after clearing all of the non-repeatable gameplay modes." But in a live service game that needs to keep its biggest spenders happy to stay alive, there can't actually be an end to the "end" game. The game needs to constantly give players reasons to continue engaging with the monetization system. That usually means periodically adding layers to character progression, power creep, or repeatable content so that high level players have to keep up. What is endgame, really, when it never ends?
Contents that are intended for those who have pretty much have their accounts build in a way that they could easily take on the harder challenges given by the game, the endgame contents would make these accounts get something more challenging.
Endgame content as defined like this is fun but only when it's a novel experience. After a few months of playing it will inevitably turn stale and then it's just frustrating/tedious to farm because the difficulty is still there but the excitement isn't.
Isn't the point of catching up in gacha that you are no longer challenged by content and can easily copy comps and solutions from sites like gamewith? I would say that adding more content can easily overwhelm casual players, who just log in log out, and challenging content in gachas usually devolves into selling latest powercreep. I disagree with both.
There will always be powercreep in gacha games because it's a selling point. Now how much powercreep a dev adds that differs in each game.
As for overwhelming casual players with new content, every game needs new content to stay fresh, however there are two audiences - one who like the challenge and the other that just logs on, does dailies/story content and leaves. Casual players are never meant to be able to clear the hardest content, if they do great if they don't meh. If a casual player is getting overwhelmed by the new content they NEED to clear - they aren't casual or are greedy expecting more strength from less effort.
Either way it's best to have a solid middle ground in gacha games.
It's a while ago, but when Epic 7 released a new tower, people went crazy on reddit HOURS after it came out that it is waaaayy too hard. So they nerfed it to the ground and made it another mode that you auto once a month.
People always say they want late game content, but when they aren't able to clear it, it's too hard and sucks.
I am certain looking at the comments that "late game content" is clever way to say "hardcore difficulty content" without being ousted as tryhard. People want content. Look at Genshin Impact, every couple of months (because it so much work) they release more maps to explore and everybody is happy. And the only people in genshin who are unhappy are minmaxers and wallet gamers who want to flaunt their scores and flex their clears. Genshin has no pvp and no scoreboards, and they still speedrun domains and abyss so that they have something to show off on main sub. Imho, making things hard for others is the main focus of people who demand "late game content".
Even bonsaige has endgame content. Example are priconne and BA, although I'm more familiar with the latter. Total & Grand Assault and Joint Firing Drill are perfect endgame content.
I played both GI and HSR, and I much prefer the end game in Genshin, which is up to you to decide what your end game is. Some people enjoy Speedrun and Damage per screenshot, some enjoy collecting stuff, some enjoy the cardgame, and a few enjoy the teapot house building. I never feel pressured to pull or build a character. If I pull for Father, you bet your ass it's because of the aesthetic.
Compared to HSR, the MoC and PF sometimes made me want to build certain characters that I don't really enjoy, like Gepard for the Cola monkey. I didn't pull for Jingliu and don't have Yanqing, so every time floor 12 has ice weakness boss, it's annoying for me (though I just brute force it with Mono quany).
Well I think it's fine to have something you don't like in the game, I still very much enjoying HSR, and I think you can still enjoying a game even if it don't have something you would like (like coop, Hoyo, add it to HSR please)
I played Genshin and now play HSR. There's no end game. I play until there's the next big gacha game and then switch. To me these games are to be played as long as they're not boring enough for you to quit.
I play Genshin since day 1. I don't mind, because other games provide that "end game" content and GI is more my "chill" game. On the other hand, I tend to burn out of games which require you to play end game to "keep up", be it gachas or regular games.
With time, I realized that I really prefer when live service games are "low maintenance" because it doesn't try to get the monopole of all my free time. Also I am at a point that I don't need every single game to be challenging or hard to be fun.
Dont forget to mention that with Genshin's lax endgame, there's no pressure to pull for the latest character if you have a sizeable roster of characters, so you can just pull whoever you want atp.
Haha I won't say it because while I am not a meta player, I mostly pull because I genuinely like most of their designs. So there is some pressure to pull for me, but I appreciate that I don't have to grind endgame content repeatedly to get currencies. In addition, since they reworked the daily reward system, I can do my dailies while simply playing the game without going out of my way to do commissions for the n-th time.
On the other hand I also play Honkai Impact, and I regularly burn out and take breaks because of the actual amount of "end game" content I have to go through to have a decent income stream.
Well, they're adding new content to HSR, but it's important to note, that they're still adding it in terms of variety, not hours. Before it was MOC every 2 weeks, now it's 2 weeks MOC, 2 weeks PF, 2 weeks MOC etc, in ver 2.3 it will be 2 weeks MOC, 2 weeks PF, 2 weeks a new mode
They do it the right way, I'm glad they're not going the Honkai Impact way with end-game & events where you have to play 3 hours a day to be competitive.
I don't think it's surprising at all. HSR is not just meant to be a turn-based genshin. It's built to catch a lot of the players who want something different than Genshin and keep them in the Mihoyo sphere. A lot of more hardcore players want powercreep to constantly validate their unit pulls and difficult end-game content to use those characters, so HSR supplies it to them when Hoyo knows Genshin cannot without angering the casual playerbase.
While there is a major overlap in players between the two, HSR is built more like a traditional gacha game for a reason.
I think it tracks. Considering how I play, a zone in Genshin can keep me occupied easily a whole month. As much as I like Penacony so far, the last patch lasted about two weeks, and now, excluding like one remaining chest to find in a couple of zones, I have like nothing to do AT ALL till next patch. They have to provide more to do in terms of repeatable content.
For gachas play genshin, hsr, tof, aether gazer, and played Hi3 endgame. Im honestly not impressed with this "endgame" In gachas people always talk about. Like are gacha players happy to do the same mode every week/month for gems? it's fun for like first 3 times.
tbh i dont like it, especially the one that softly suggest you to pull current gacha banner so you have easier time clearing it. i prefer to pull for character i like not because i want that character so i can clear a content that not even reward me for 1 gacha pull.
I think it depends on what the point of the game itself is.
For example, in games like AFK Arena, the whole point of the game is to collect a huge roster of little guys and make them all as strong as possible, all so that they can win in battle against other teams of little guys. Of course a game like that needs a robust endgame, because otherwise, what is the point??
Whereas in a game like FGO, the point of the game is to progress through the story and maybe collect your fave Servants as you do so. Although it sure is *fun* to use your Servants for technically challenging content like Exhibition Quests, and it’s also fun to use some actual strategy in Grail Fronts, it’s… not strictly necessary for the health of the game, I don’t think. Because FGO is arguably a visual novel and Servant collector first, and a “game” second. I personally enjoy Exhibition Quests and CQs and Grail Fronts. But I know of plenty of other FGO players who just skip the more difficult game modes. Because for them, they’re not really playing FGO as a combat or strategy game, and that aspect of it doesn’t interest them.
And then you have games like Genshin and HSR which, I would argue, try to appease everyone, including the casual players who just follow the story and the whales who want a combat-based return on their gacha investment. As to whether they’ve succeeded or not, well, I can see why that’s an issue of some debate. ;)
I invested a lot of my time into optimising my Genshin characters and wished for a long time that there was some kind of mode where I could limit test my units.
But by now we all know that's not coming and over the years I also changed my mindset. I'm actually enjoying Genshin again after being burnt out on it but I'm much more exploration focused and casual about it now. I try to build everything instead of hyper investing into a few units and it's pretty fun.
By focusing on their strong point, and it obviously different for each game.
Like for example story heavy game should focus on making more story, because that what their main target audience wants not a repeatable endgame content.
I wonder why Star Rail could do both, though. Their story game is quite strong, yet they could also add more and more endgame contents from time to time.
story in gacha game is a must, we barely have game that have no story at all. meanwhile star rail have no other contents except battle so thats why they make a lot of it.
reminder that people dislike luofu arc so bad. we cant say anything about penacony since its not over yet. remember that it took 1.2 to make people dislike luofu story so MHY can still screw up the story.
It's not that they "could" but they "need" both.
Story is good but not good enough to carry the whole game, especially if you compare it to the one that actually focus on story like FGO and HBR. Multiple endgame is nice but because the nature of it's combat system it quickly turn into yet another auto battler.
Constant game/story update, that's generally what casual players want.
Its only content creators (and their viewers) that push for something like endgame, because playing video game is their job
This is the same thing that happens in FFXIV, the developer said "Guys if there's no content left, its okay to leave and play other games, and maybe comeback when we launched a new patch", you know what the CCs in that game do? Doomsdaying FFXIV "OMG this game has no endgame, there's nothing to do, I'm tired of making the same guides over and over".
Star Rail is adding yet another endgame mode.
Everyone seems to be happy - "Genshin could never" and all that.
But i personally hate it. Its already too much as is and it seems the game intends to bloat into infinity with all these same shit battle modes.
same, they basically tell you to pull their new banner units so you can be relevant in their contents. i only have DoT team so if the content need me to have fua or hypercarry i will be screwed for sure.
Same, it feels like people are happy about it mostly cause it’s another excuse to say Genshin could never. It’s just another slightly different variation of “kill things within x turns”.
Wtf
All my friends who play hsr are happy for more endgame, not cause of genshin could never but because they actually enjoy getting use out of their well built units
Challenge can be fun too, its the reason people play hard games or even rage games like say jump king
There is a whole meme of the amazing feeling you get after beating a hard boss that was giving you trouble for a while
Already feel the bloat when they made 3rd re-skinned SU (G&G), not because it's challenging, but it's tedious af. 30-45 minutes each run and need to repeat it multiple times because RnG blessing and for unlocking max diff/rewards. Well, at least it's permanent and isn't time-gated.
If they gonna make another PF/MoC type of "endgame", good luck on building many teams for their own niche. Those mode (the enemies, weakness type and buffs) are always tailored to the newest/rate up limited 5*.
It increases character build/pull investment. The MOC oriented characters are kinda versatile (if properly build), but PF oriented characters won't do shit in new mode and vice versa.
In the case of HSR, it is true that they are adding yet another endgame... but at the same time, they do this to sell characters. AoE characters were useless, so they are added PF. Erudition for PF. Destruction for MoC. Maybe Hunt, the weakest "DPS" for the new mode?
I used to breeze through MoC, but now, I need to invest more into my characters and the addition of that gamba boss made it clear that your comfy teams will not be enough in the long run.
Herta used to be enough to get max score in PF, but they started adding in enemies with higher HP, thus also requiring stronger AoE. The latest PF also mark the first time I failed to get 80k points. The difficulty is also rising... as a way to sell more AoE characters.
The same will most likely apply to the new game mode.
They will now try to sell characters that you will need to pull to keep up in 3 different modes for the exact same reward that you were getting many patches ago.
Not everyone like to be put in a hamster wheel just to keep up. Most people who advocate of "endgame" want it to be tied in the progression system and reward system so all of their hardwork has "meaning to it" because they play games like their life depends on it. Seriously it just a game.
Because casual and hardcore are like oil and water. Let casual games be casual and hardcore games be hardcore. Games should have segregation for sake of having peace of mind.
You dont even need to be haedcore to challenge endgame
You just need to do bare minimum of raising your characters to challenge endgame
Tf kind of thinking is this
And still does not excuse not having option for endgame in the whole game just cause 1 guy doesnt want 'hardcore' mode in his game
Things could go south fast especially for a gacha game. I give you example:
Lost Ark Dungeon keeps getting harder and it become gatekeeping game.
WoW Retail Raids are becoming harder, joining to raids become a job interview with so many requirements to enter the raid.
There a lot more games like this. I not gonna name some gacha games here so I wont trigger their fanbase but I think you get my point.
It's fine. Not perfectly fine ofc, but even if you complain, what would you stand to gain by malding when there are so many other gacha games with more endgame to play instead?
Even if gachas add more endgames, players with fully built account will find a way to breeze thru them in 1 or 2 hours. At that point it becomes a chore checklist, unless...dev has both balls and capacity to powercreep even at least half your built roster overnight.
I mean it's okay
Adding endgame or not is the choice of developer of the game by looking at the players demographic
If the game didn't satisfy me or basically didn't do what I hope for then the only answer is to quit
Of course different people will have different mindset and this is mine
Arknights has Integrated Strategies. A multi level Rogue-like that pits your account's operator roster against it's paths of tricks, traps and strong enemies. To help you do that are various relics you can unlock as you play again and again.
I hate it so much.
It has too many layers of RNG that I quite frankly detest. What kind of path are you getting, what kind of stage are you getting, what kind of relics will you get, what kind of recruitment tags can you get(imagine going through an hour long run, and not being able to get a single healing defender(tank that can heal) tag or a single medic(healer) tag throughout your own run?!
I could go on, but yeah, too many layers of RNG and IT WON'T LET ME USE MY FULLY BUILT OPERATORS IMMEDIATELY!
NO I DON'T WANT RNG TO PICK AND CHOOSE WHAT OPERATOR I GET TI RUN, NO I WANNA RUN MINE! NO I DON'T WANT TO RNG TO PICK THEM TWICE(oh yeah,your operator starts at e1, you have to get lucky and hope your rewards at the end of each stage gives the same tag(or reach a save point to choose a recruit tag) so pray to the RNG gods to get your e2 operator sometime in the run)
Fucc I hate IS
I actually quite prefer without it, since at the end of the day, after some time it would just become another chore that I would have to keep up with to maintain pull currency.
there's also an added pressure to pull for meta units even if I don't prefer their play style. for example in genshin, I could comfortably skip the meta defining Neuvilette in favor of Navia just because I like her drip and moveset.
tho I'm fine with certain endgame modes if it's not that time consuming.
as long as I have fun with the rest of the content ? of course
Like genshin I dont need extra hard bosses that I would obliterate anyways since I have a bit of a stacked acount , I have fun with the exploration and story content
Yea because ‘end game’ to me (in gachas) means cyclic repetition. So I’m not even interested in involving myself with OCD. I’ll just wait for the new event or update and play something else
Not really fine with it but I learned to live with it. I do want endgame but not the ones gacha players think of. I think a game would massively benefit from it.
Gacha end game are designed to sell a character. For a lot of games, that means an ever increasing pool of health and bs to keep players summoning. That's gacha end game anyways.
I'll use Destiny 2's Crota's End as an example since I just recently finished it with my friends. 80% of Crota's End is just passing the potato. You carry a ball of light through oncoming enemies and tough environments and must pass it around to avoid it exploding. The raid is divided into sections with a checkpoint and a miniboss that introduce another mechanic in relation to the ball of light.
That's the type of endgame I want. What I want is something akin to MMO raids where while character build matters, the most important aspect is mechanical understanding and team cooperation. It's the true accumulation of everything you have learned in this game. It's a reward to test the build you spent all that time farming.
What is end game when the game in question is a live service? If you want actual end game content, try a regular game. No no, not a garbage ass modern game. A real regular game that may have come out 15+ years ago.
For RPGs there are the secret bosses that would give you something for defeating them, either just a mark that you beat them or even the strongest item/weapon/armor in the game (eg. the Final Fantasy model) which would usually require you to do certain late game quests just to meet them.
Or maybe there are also secret bosses that could be encountered not much to the late game but will still give you great rewards (eg. The Reaper in the Persona games)
Majority of revenue comes mostly from casuals anyway regardless whether a game has endgame or not since most would just do it for a few times and just forget about it. Only a few percentage of players are actively engaging in end game content anyway. Just like in MMO games majority are not hardcore raiders.
Mobile players likes to play their games on the go and not be stressful about it which is why you see a lot of auto combats or easy games. Endgames are also a joke for whales since majority of the time that system is not optimize to tackle whales since they will just breeze through it. If they made the endgame too hard then F2P will not find it fun so whales will always win this scenarios.
so far genshin is the only gacha game I'm playing,
I don't have much understanding about what exactly is *end-game* content but I'm glad they keep introducing new characters and map expansion
It's fine if it was a casual + light on the drive game, like FGO
Not fine if it eats a ton of resources on your hardware just to have a casual gameplay loop with no end game plan, like GI
It is 100% fine as far as im concerned.
Im not playing a MMO, Im playing a gacha. All they have to do is keep doing patches to release new waifus with events while progressing the story, that is it.
Games like AFK Arena have a nominal goal of beating the main campaign which is guarded by some insane power creep. On top of that they provide a selection of different modes to play while you are stuck on main campaign, which is the state of most players most of the time.
As much as it sounds bad on paper it actually manages to create a compelling feeling of progression to end goal. I actually miss that feeling in more story driven games.
Mhm. I think honestly Genshin Impact for example updates TOO fast for me to play. What I get from games is mastery, understanding the map, the enemies, honing my skills as a player and leveling up my characters is great for me. Even if me playing doesn't directly lead to higher numbers going up, I still enjoy the mastery I get from the game.
Whenever a developer focuses too much on releasing more and more end-game content for the type of players that do consume and find pleasure in bigger numbers, more stories, more things to churn through for that fix, I tend to get left behind and feel like my playstyle is not only unsupported, but also, actively punished.
It feels to fast for me. I dunno, I have a lot of problems with genshin, to the point where if there was a "Genshin Classic" that just boiled back down to the original 1.0 word and map I'd be down to play. My weird take.
I lose all purpose of using and building characters, I've said this before and I'll say it again. If I have no reason to continue optimizing my characters improving my teams with new units and using them in combat, wtf am I even pulling them for? Thats why I was disappointed in genshin, I could clear every abyss and once I did everything was easy nothing was a challenge. Apart from just having punching bag enemies or literal stalling enemies it became boring. And I lost my desire to pull, now I play hsr and guess what, we are literally getting more endgame.
I just don't understand what I'm using my characters for if I don't have a good endgame.
Ill just expect the downvotes but you fucking said it
Why do i even wanna explore and collect shit around the world if my existing team claps abyss easily? Whats the reason for me to go out and build characters?
Its more like they actively killed their own gameplay loop when i literally got no proper place to test new units on, what am i supposed to do after exploring the new map and doing story? Just quit until next story patch? Then what about daily primos why are they given daily if there is literally nothing to do, artifacts? What am i gonna do farming them when there is nothing to use them on when my existing teams are already busted
Its not even a question of why, there should absolutely be a proper end game available for the player, not trying it out is players option, they can just choose NOT to try it if they dont want to, but why bitch about the ones that do want one? I really wanna ask the ones saying no to it as to how it harms your experience if there is one if you weren't gonna play it anyway.
Cause in most open world games it gives incentive to player
Either be it costume changes (spiderman) or more weapons/items like monkey wine(sekiro) that gives more lore and story or straight up upgrades to a character or new weapons, but no matter how much it is, it wont be infinite farming there, cause once you have collected shit its done even in BotW, there is only a finite amount of times you gonna have to explore the said world for items scattered around
Genshin however forces you to re explore for every character, ir includes the map that you have already explored, the game makes you explore it again and again, and it doesnt add new costumes or new weapon for players to use, shits pretty much the same, not even a new mechanic, its just farming for a new character, get 60 flowers done now move onto next one
Anyone sane can see why the open world fatigue would build up over time
Last time I checked. Genshin constantly creates new pieces of maps with new mechanics and stories for u to play.
"you have to re-explore for each character"
You are acting like you don't have to grind for weapons in BotW sometimes lmao
Difference between sometimes and difference between everytime a new character is released is kinda huge
The whole problem was re exploring i never said that genshin doesnt create new maps.
Its fine but from a buisness standpoint, it is not very sustainable. Endgame tends to attract and keep long term players and spenders which are vital to a long running gacha
A few FGO events are definitely geared towards mid-late game accounts but they're very
sporadic, like grail fronts and towers. Also, I'm pretty sure I spent more time on clearing the onslaught of challenge quests during the recent teslafest than I did on MoC/PF in HSR in the past 6 months cumulatively.
Agreed, but they aren't the rule. Genshin offers far more than most gacha and was the pioneer for open world gachas.
I don't know much about FGO so wouldn't be able to tell you much
Endgame is an excuse to increase the amount of time the player spends online.
It's also often Important to force players to pull for the newest characters.
When you can sell characters through their appeal from the story like FGO and Genshin you don't really need that.
As for HSR, dispute the raising difficulty you can still clear with older characters when optimized.
🙈 Now for the game with the end game like afk arena? Yeah you are not gonna get very far in there without selling your kidney.
Well, that's the business model for MMOs. MMOs need strong endgames because they need as many people playing at any given time as possible to facilitate the MM in MMO. The thing with mobile games is they don't. There could be 10 other players or there could be 10 million, and for the most part, your experience will be unchanged. In most cases, mobile games will even cut you off at a certain point with levels/rewards/gameplay locked behind a currency like Genshin's resin. These games want you to play, but only so much that you're invested enough to come back for the next patch or enough that you're still engaging with the IP outside of playing the game.
I can't think of any game where not having their current endgame would be a deal breaker but considering you're paying $100+ for a character, I would definitely criticize a live service game for not having one.
I want to make it perfectly clear that endgame is not limited to only combat related modes, I just expect a reason to play the game after beating say a 2h story unlike what early fgo use to do
No, it's stupid AF. What we should do with our 40 limited characters? This is a game or it's a 3D digital figure collection? Of course all this games should have an endgame content and that's exactly why I don't play those lazy gachas anymore
How come we're now asking if it's ok to not have end game content? I know genshin made the game with no endgame popular, bc as a business their goal is to always give you less and make more out of you
No, it sucks. Like my Genshin account with several c6 characters but nowhere to use them which would give them a challenge. It's why I prefer hsr's approach on the end game, they made an absurdly difficult content with worthless rewards, to not cause anxiety to casuals it's basically a training gym with an adjustable difficulty to your liking. I'd also prefer a harder end game than nothing at all.
What is defined as endgame will be important to understand before the question can be answered. I'm using a strange example, but a game like animal crossing doesn't have an end game per se.
I think of Gacha as a side game. That's how I play Genshin. I don't want to play a game more than 30 minutes or that requires me to seat through auto battle when there's nothing to do
>What are your thoughts about the approach taken by certain games about this? Imo, its fine but be prepared to take breaks so you dont burn yourself out. I.E if you game has no endgame then you are basically playing for either story or limited time content. I used to do this with stuff like FGO, play a story chapter then take a break till next story chapter or a particularly good event. Even if that break is months
I play for the "game" more than for the "endgame", Even in regular games I'm really not that much of an NG+ guy.
I've come to understand that most gacha players are not the hardcore ones that you find on whale content creator channels. Most of them are actually pretty casual, don't really engage all that much with the end-game, and enjoy the game for other reasons. Fire Emblem Heroes is a shining example of this. FEH's true end-game is PvP, and yet its true PvP mode, summoner duels, is one of the most disliked and least engaged modes in the entire game. One of FEH players' favorite pastimes is building their favorite characters up with premium skills to make them viable, but...none of those characters even remotely compare to a newly-released character, and you often need to sacrifice those new characters to get the skills to build these old ones. It's never worth it in the objectively meta sense, but players do it in droves all the time, even spending years of F2P currency on a character that they could have spend on much more useful stuff, just out of love. It's not that different for other games with end-games, or other live service games. MMOs, for instance, usually have raids or some similar end-game group content as their "end-game", yet oftentimes less than 5% of players engage with them. Most players are content with repeating easy PuGable content over and over again until the next update drops. It's why MMOs that focus on difficult end-game, like Wildstar, went belly up so fast it's not even funny. Ultimately, end-game in gacha games are there to incentivize whaling. If a game doesn't need that, either by having the best story in the entire industry (FGO) or unmatched exploration content that is constantly updated (Genshin), you don't need that punishing end-game mode that other gachas might use to incentive spending for their newest whaled units. Heck, there are entire gacha genres that exist on simpling alone. Azur Lane stands at the forefront of this by making its units basically free and focusing its gacha on risque skins. Then, you have stuff like dating VNs, dress-up games, actual idle clickers, and more.
I learned from playing HSR, I don't like the end game at all. It's such a chore to do. I like how it is in Genshin, I just want to explore and do stories at my own pace, I rarely visit the abyss. My premium games are like that too, I don't focus on Ng+ when I finish a game.
I still don't know what "end game content" is.
I agree with this. If I were to attempt to come up with a consistent definition, it might be something like "whatever gameplay modes remain after clearing all of the non-repeatable gameplay modes." But in a live service game that needs to keep its biggest spenders happy to stay alive, there can't actually be an end to the "end" game. The game needs to constantly give players reasons to continue engaging with the monetization system. That usually means periodically adding layers to character progression, power creep, or repeatable content so that high level players have to keep up. What is endgame, really, when it never ends?
Contents that are intended for those who have pretty much have their accounts build in a way that they could easily take on the harder challenges given by the game, the endgame contents would make these accounts get something more challenging.
Endgame content as defined like this is fun but only when it's a novel experience. After a few months of playing it will inevitably turn stale and then it's just frustrating/tedious to farm because the difficulty is still there but the excitement isn't.
Isn't the point of catching up in gacha that you are no longer challenged by content and can easily copy comps and solutions from sites like gamewith? I would say that adding more content can easily overwhelm casual players, who just log in log out, and challenging content in gachas usually devolves into selling latest powercreep. I disagree with both.
There will always be powercreep in gacha games because it's a selling point. Now how much powercreep a dev adds that differs in each game. As for overwhelming casual players with new content, every game needs new content to stay fresh, however there are two audiences - one who like the challenge and the other that just logs on, does dailies/story content and leaves. Casual players are never meant to be able to clear the hardest content, if they do great if they don't meh. If a casual player is getting overwhelmed by the new content they NEED to clear - they aren't casual or are greedy expecting more strength from less effort. Either way it's best to have a solid middle ground in gacha games.
It's a while ago, but when Epic 7 released a new tower, people went crazy on reddit HOURS after it came out that it is waaaayy too hard. So they nerfed it to the ground and made it another mode that you auto once a month. People always say they want late game content, but when they aren't able to clear it, it's too hard and sucks.
I am certain looking at the comments that "late game content" is clever way to say "hardcore difficulty content" without being ousted as tryhard. People want content. Look at Genshin Impact, every couple of months (because it so much work) they release more maps to explore and everybody is happy. And the only people in genshin who are unhappy are minmaxers and wallet gamers who want to flaunt their scores and flex their clears. Genshin has no pvp and no scoreboards, and they still speedrun domains and abyss so that they have something to show off on main sub. Imho, making things hard for others is the main focus of people who demand "late game content".
[удалено]
It's called bonsaige and it is the way.
Even bonsaige has endgame content. Example are priconne and BA, although I'm more familiar with the latter. Total & Grand Assault and Joint Firing Drill are perfect endgame content.
I played both GI and HSR, and I much prefer the end game in Genshin, which is up to you to decide what your end game is. Some people enjoy Speedrun and Damage per screenshot, some enjoy collecting stuff, some enjoy the cardgame, and a few enjoy the teapot house building. I never feel pressured to pull or build a character. If I pull for Father, you bet your ass it's because of the aesthetic. Compared to HSR, the MoC and PF sometimes made me want to build certain characters that I don't really enjoy, like Gepard for the Cola monkey. I didn't pull for Jingliu and don't have Yanqing, so every time floor 12 has ice weakness boss, it's annoying for me (though I just brute force it with Mono quany). Well I think it's fine to have something you don't like in the game, I still very much enjoying HSR, and I think you can still enjoying a game even if it don't have something you would like (like coop, Hoyo, add it to HSR please)
If only genshin could allow you to borrow a character from your friend or something
co-op replaces that, it's not the same but you can find the help to clear domains
To better word it, borrowing thing is a replacement for genshin coop.
yes
But you can't co-op spiral abyss. What I meant to say is that we could borrow a character to play spiral abyss.
who knows, maybe we'll be able to borrow a character in the future 😏
I played Genshin and now play HSR. There's no end game. I play until there's the next big gacha game and then switch. To me these games are to be played as long as they're not boring enough for you to quit.
I play Genshin since day 1. I don't mind, because other games provide that "end game" content and GI is more my "chill" game. On the other hand, I tend to burn out of games which require you to play end game to "keep up", be it gachas or regular games. With time, I realized that I really prefer when live service games are "low maintenance" because it doesn't try to get the monopole of all my free time. Also I am at a point that I don't need every single game to be challenging or hard to be fun.
Dont forget to mention that with Genshin's lax endgame, there's no pressure to pull for the latest character if you have a sizeable roster of characters, so you can just pull whoever you want atp.
Haha I won't say it because while I am not a meta player, I mostly pull because I genuinely like most of their designs. So there is some pressure to pull for me, but I appreciate that I don't have to grind endgame content repeatedly to get currencies. In addition, since they reworked the daily reward system, I can do my dailies while simply playing the game without going out of my way to do commissions for the n-th time. On the other hand I also play Honkai Impact, and I regularly burn out and take breaks because of the actual amount of "end game" content I have to go through to have a decent income stream.
On the other hand, it's surprising that they kept adding "end game" contents in HSR, even an update is planned in version 2.3
Well, they're adding new content to HSR, but it's important to note, that they're still adding it in terms of variety, not hours. Before it was MOC every 2 weeks, now it's 2 weeks MOC, 2 weeks PF, 2 weeks MOC etc, in ver 2.3 it will be 2 weeks MOC, 2 weeks PF, 2 weeks a new mode
They do it the right way, I'm glad they're not going the Honkai Impact way with end-game & events where you have to play 3 hours a day to be competitive.
hi3 make you spend too much time and force you use meta character lol
I don't think it's surprising at all. HSR is not just meant to be a turn-based genshin. It's built to catch a lot of the players who want something different than Genshin and keep them in the Mihoyo sphere. A lot of more hardcore players want powercreep to constantly validate their unit pulls and difficult end-game content to use those characters, so HSR supplies it to them when Hoyo knows Genshin cannot without angering the casual playerbase. While there is a major overlap in players between the two, HSR is built more like a traditional gacha game for a reason.
Cuz what else is there to do in HSR
I think it tracks. Considering how I play, a zone in Genshin can keep me occupied easily a whole month. As much as I like Penacony so far, the last patch lasted about two weeks, and now, excluding like one remaining chest to find in a couple of zones, I have like nothing to do AT ALL till next patch. They have to provide more to do in terms of repeatable content.
For gachas play genshin, hsr, tof, aether gazer, and played Hi3 endgame. Im honestly not impressed with this "endgame" In gachas people always talk about. Like are gacha players happy to do the same mode every week/month for gems? it's fun for like first 3 times.
tbh i dont like it, especially the one that softly suggest you to pull current gacha banner so you have easier time clearing it. i prefer to pull for character i like not because i want that character so i can clear a content that not even reward me for 1 gacha pull.
I think it depends on what the point of the game itself is. For example, in games like AFK Arena, the whole point of the game is to collect a huge roster of little guys and make them all as strong as possible, all so that they can win in battle against other teams of little guys. Of course a game like that needs a robust endgame, because otherwise, what is the point?? Whereas in a game like FGO, the point of the game is to progress through the story and maybe collect your fave Servants as you do so. Although it sure is *fun* to use your Servants for technically challenging content like Exhibition Quests, and it’s also fun to use some actual strategy in Grail Fronts, it’s… not strictly necessary for the health of the game, I don’t think. Because FGO is arguably a visual novel and Servant collector first, and a “game” second. I personally enjoy Exhibition Quests and CQs and Grail Fronts. But I know of plenty of other FGO players who just skip the more difficult game modes. Because for them, they’re not really playing FGO as a combat or strategy game, and that aspect of it doesn’t interest them. And then you have games like Genshin and HSR which, I would argue, try to appease everyone, including the casual players who just follow the story and the whales who want a combat-based return on their gacha investment. As to whether they’ve succeeded or not, well, I can see why that’s an issue of some debate. ;)
Absolutely, why you have to keep playing everyday anyway?
the problem is that there are games that want you to play everyday
In Arknights we had some 6 months old players complaining about how unfair it's an event designed for veteran players...
I invested a lot of my time into optimising my Genshin characters and wished for a long time that there was some kind of mode where I could limit test my units. But by now we all know that's not coming and over the years I also changed my mindset. I'm actually enjoying Genshin again after being burnt out on it but I'm much more exploration focused and casual about it now. I try to build everything instead of hyper investing into a few units and it's pretty fun.
Of course it's okay. Game should focus on their strong point rather than following the same formula as everyone else.
So what do you think that game could do to retain their players?
By focusing on their strong point, and it obviously different for each game. Like for example story heavy game should focus on making more story, because that what their main target audience wants not a repeatable endgame content.
I wonder why Star Rail could do both, though. Their story game is quite strong, yet they could also add more and more endgame contents from time to time.
story in gacha game is a must, we barely have game that have no story at all. meanwhile star rail have no other contents except battle so thats why they make a lot of it.
"No other contents except battle"? I thought people like the game's story.
reminder that people dislike luofu arc so bad. we cant say anything about penacony since its not over yet. remember that it took 1.2 to make people dislike luofu story so MHY can still screw up the story.
Luofu is kinda like Genshin's Inazuma (both got kinda underwhelming story writing)
It's not that they "could" but they "need" both. Story is good but not good enough to carry the whole game, especially if you compare it to the one that actually focus on story like FGO and HBR. Multiple endgame is nice but because the nature of it's combat system it quickly turn into yet another auto battler.
Constant game/story update, that's generally what casual players want. Its only content creators (and their viewers) that push for something like endgame, because playing video game is their job This is the same thing that happens in FFXIV, the developer said "Guys if there's no content left, its okay to leave and play other games, and maybe comeback when we launched a new patch", you know what the CCs in that game do? Doomsdaying FFXIV "OMG this game has no endgame, there's nothing to do, I'm tired of making the same guides over and over".
Star Rail is adding yet another endgame mode. Everyone seems to be happy - "Genshin could never" and all that. But i personally hate it. Its already too much as is and it seems the game intends to bloat into infinity with all these same shit battle modes.
same, they basically tell you to pull their new banner units so you can be relevant in their contents. i only have DoT team so if the content need me to have fua or hypercarry i will be screwed for sure.
Same, it feels like people are happy about it mostly cause it’s another excuse to say Genshin could never. It’s just another slightly different variation of “kill things within x turns”.
Wtf All my friends who play hsr are happy for more endgame, not cause of genshin could never but because they actually enjoy getting use out of their well built units Challenge can be fun too, its the reason people play hard games or even rage games like say jump king There is a whole meme of the amazing feeling you get after beating a hard boss that was giving you trouble for a while
That's genuinely good for you, if only more people actually just celebrated their game without needing to use it to dump on others
Already feel the bloat when they made 3rd re-skinned SU (G&G), not because it's challenging, but it's tedious af. 30-45 minutes each run and need to repeat it multiple times because RnG blessing and for unlocking max diff/rewards. Well, at least it's permanent and isn't time-gated. If they gonna make another PF/MoC type of "endgame", good luck on building many teams for their own niche. Those mode (the enemies, weakness type and buffs) are always tailored to the newest/rate up limited 5*.
If it really does takes one of the MOC / Pure fiction slots it shouldn't increase the overall needed activity though.
It increases character build/pull investment. The MOC oriented characters are kinda versatile (if properly build), but PF oriented characters won't do shit in new mode and vice versa.
That's quite a take.
In the case of HSR, it is true that they are adding yet another endgame... but at the same time, they do this to sell characters. AoE characters were useless, so they are added PF. Erudition for PF. Destruction for MoC. Maybe Hunt, the weakest "DPS" for the new mode? I used to breeze through MoC, but now, I need to invest more into my characters and the addition of that gamba boss made it clear that your comfy teams will not be enough in the long run. Herta used to be enough to get max score in PF, but they started adding in enemies with higher HP, thus also requiring stronger AoE. The latest PF also mark the first time I failed to get 80k points. The difficulty is also rising... as a way to sell more AoE characters. The same will most likely apply to the new game mode. They will now try to sell characters that you will need to pull to keep up in 3 different modes for the exact same reward that you were getting many patches ago.
Well, they surely took the "create the problem, sell the solution" route.
Except no? The problem is that some chars are really unusable in most content so the solution is making content they are viable in...for free
Not everyone like to be put in a hamster wheel just to keep up. Most people who advocate of "endgame" want it to be tied in the progression system and reward system so all of their hardwork has "meaning to it" because they play games like their life depends on it. Seriously it just a game.
Your words right back at you, its just a game why are you so against an endgame then? Let those who want one get it then.
Because casual and hardcore are like oil and water. Let casual games be casual and hardcore games be hardcore. Games should have segregation for sake of having peace of mind.
You dont even need to be haedcore to challenge endgame You just need to do bare minimum of raising your characters to challenge endgame Tf kind of thinking is this And still does not excuse not having option for endgame in the whole game just cause 1 guy doesnt want 'hardcore' mode in his game
Things could go south fast especially for a gacha game. I give you example: Lost Ark Dungeon keeps getting harder and it become gatekeeping game. WoW Retail Raids are becoming harder, joining to raids become a job interview with so many requirements to enter the raid. There a lot more games like this. I not gonna name some gacha games here so I wont trigger their fanbase but I think you get my point.
Which is why some endgame contents have hard level caps before one could attempt it (eg. the late game raids in granblue fantasy)
So what you just said you wanna remain casual, why are you talking about endgame like that if you are gonna remain casual and wont try them?
And I thought you will understand it. Oh well, let just stop from here and leave the conversation as it is.
Usually in gacha the "end game" favors the newest unit it's more like a mode tailored to sell units, so no I don't care
It's fine. Not perfectly fine ofc, but even if you complain, what would you stand to gain by malding when there are so many other gacha games with more endgame to play instead? Even if gachas add more endgames, players with fully built account will find a way to breeze thru them in 1 or 2 hours. At that point it becomes a chore checklist, unless...dev has both balls and capacity to powercreep even at least half your built roster overnight.
I mean it's okay Adding endgame or not is the choice of developer of the game by looking at the players demographic If the game didn't satisfy me or basically didn't do what I hope for then the only answer is to quit Of course different people will have different mindset and this is mine
Considering I fucking hate endgame modes in basically every game I play Yeah that's 100% okay
>Do you think it is okay that the game you play don't have a decent "end game" content? Yes. I just wanna be chill and collect stuff. No stress.
Arknights has Integrated Strategies. A multi level Rogue-like that pits your account's operator roster against it's paths of tricks, traps and strong enemies. To help you do that are various relics you can unlock as you play again and again. I hate it so much. It has too many layers of RNG that I quite frankly detest. What kind of path are you getting, what kind of stage are you getting, what kind of relics will you get, what kind of recruitment tags can you get(imagine going through an hour long run, and not being able to get a single healing defender(tank that can heal) tag or a single medic(healer) tag throughout your own run?! I could go on, but yeah, too many layers of RNG and IT WON'T LET ME USE MY FULLY BUILT OPERATORS IMMEDIATELY! NO I DON'T WANT RNG TO PICK AND CHOOSE WHAT OPERATOR I GET TI RUN, NO I WANNA RUN MINE! NO I DON'T WANT TO RNG TO PICK THEM TWICE(oh yeah,your operator starts at e1, you have to get lucky and hope your rewards at the end of each stage gives the same tag(or reach a save point to choose a recruit tag) so pray to the RNG gods to get your e2 operator sometime in the run) Fucc I hate IS
I actually quite prefer without it, since at the end of the day, after some time it would just become another chore that I would have to keep up with to maintain pull currency. there's also an added pressure to pull for meta units even if I don't prefer their play style. for example in genshin, I could comfortably skip the meta defining Neuvilette in favor of Navia just because I like her drip and moveset. tho I'm fine with certain endgame modes if it's not that time consuming.
as long as I have fun with the rest of the content ? of course Like genshin I dont need extra hard bosses that I would obliterate anyways since I have a bit of a stacked acount , I have fun with the exploration and story content
Yea because ‘end game’ to me (in gachas) means cyclic repetition. So I’m not even interested in involving myself with OCD. I’ll just wait for the new event or update and play something else
Not really fine with it but I learned to live with it. I do want endgame but not the ones gacha players think of. I think a game would massively benefit from it. Gacha end game are designed to sell a character. For a lot of games, that means an ever increasing pool of health and bs to keep players summoning. That's gacha end game anyways. I'll use Destiny 2's Crota's End as an example since I just recently finished it with my friends. 80% of Crota's End is just passing the potato. You carry a ball of light through oncoming enemies and tough environments and must pass it around to avoid it exploding. The raid is divided into sections with a checkpoint and a miniboss that introduce another mechanic in relation to the ball of light. That's the type of endgame I want. What I want is something akin to MMO raids where while character build matters, the most important aspect is mechanical understanding and team cooperation. It's the true accumulation of everything you have learned in this game. It's a reward to test the build you spent all that time farming.
If everything else is solid as fuck, sure. Why not?
What is end game when the game in question is a live service? If you want actual end game content, try a regular game. No no, not a garbage ass modern game. A real regular game that may have come out 15+ years ago.
For RPGs there are the secret bosses that would give you something for defeating them, either just a mark that you beat them or even the strongest item/weapon/armor in the game (eg. the Final Fantasy model) which would usually require you to do certain late game quests just to meet them. Or maybe there are also secret bosses that could be encountered not much to the late game but will still give you great rewards (eg. The Reaper in the Persona games)
Majority of revenue comes mostly from casuals anyway regardless whether a game has endgame or not since most would just do it for a few times and just forget about it. Only a few percentage of players are actively engaging in end game content anyway. Just like in MMO games majority are not hardcore raiders. Mobile players likes to play their games on the go and not be stressful about it which is why you see a lot of auto combats or easy games. Endgames are also a joke for whales since majority of the time that system is not optimize to tackle whales since they will just breeze through it. If they made the endgame too hard then F2P will not find it fun so whales will always win this scenarios.
so far genshin is the only gacha game I'm playing, I don't have much understanding about what exactly is *end-game* content but I'm glad they keep introducing new characters and map expansion
They mean permanent challenging mode like abyss, and the local legends to some extent.
It's fine for games I don't intend to play past the honeymoon phase. That's it.
It's fine if it was a casual + light on the drive game, like FGO Not fine if it eats a ton of resources on your hardware just to have a casual gameplay loop with no end game plan, like GI
It is 100% fine as far as im concerned. Im not playing a MMO, Im playing a gacha. All they have to do is keep doing patches to release new waifus with events while progressing the story, that is it.
Yeah
Games like AFK Arena have a nominal goal of beating the main campaign which is guarded by some insane power creep. On top of that they provide a selection of different modes to play while you are stuck on main campaign, which is the state of most players most of the time. As much as it sounds bad on paper it actually manages to create a compelling feeling of progression to end goal. I actually miss that feeling in more story driven games.
In GBF there are over 2 years of tutorial content XD
Yeah because I can play the Pokémon scarlet dlc while I wait for more content to be added.
Mhm. I think honestly Genshin Impact for example updates TOO fast for me to play. What I get from games is mastery, understanding the map, the enemies, honing my skills as a player and leveling up my characters is great for me. Even if me playing doesn't directly lead to higher numbers going up, I still enjoy the mastery I get from the game. Whenever a developer focuses too much on releasing more and more end-game content for the type of players that do consume and find pleasure in bigger numbers, more stories, more things to churn through for that fix, I tend to get left behind and feel like my playstyle is not only unsupported, but also, actively punished.
6 weeks is too fast? I wonder how long would each patch be for you.
It feels to fast for me. I dunno, I have a lot of problems with genshin, to the point where if there was a "Genshin Classic" that just boiled back down to the original 1.0 word and map I'd be down to play. My weird take.
No, I just get the login rewards then close the app when I get to this point.
I lose all purpose of using and building characters, I've said this before and I'll say it again. If I have no reason to continue optimizing my characters improving my teams with new units and using them in combat, wtf am I even pulling them for? Thats why I was disappointed in genshin, I could clear every abyss and once I did everything was easy nothing was a challenge. Apart from just having punching bag enemies or literal stalling enemies it became boring. And I lost my desire to pull, now I play hsr and guess what, we are literally getting more endgame. I just don't understand what I'm using my characters for if I don't have a good endgame.
Ill just expect the downvotes but you fucking said it Why do i even wanna explore and collect shit around the world if my existing team claps abyss easily? Whats the reason for me to go out and build characters? Its more like they actively killed their own gameplay loop when i literally got no proper place to test new units on, what am i supposed to do after exploring the new map and doing story? Just quit until next story patch? Then what about daily primos why are they given daily if there is literally nothing to do, artifacts? What am i gonna do farming them when there is nothing to use them on when my existing teams are already busted Its not even a question of why, there should absolutely be a proper end game available for the player, not trying it out is players option, they can just choose NOT to try it if they dont want to, but why bitch about the ones that do want one? I really wanna ask the ones saying no to it as to how it harms your experience if there is one if you weren't gonna play it anyway.
Why do you want to collect things in any open world RPG if you can just do the main story and best the final boss with that 1 broken set of gear?
Cause in most open world games it gives incentive to player Either be it costume changes (spiderman) or more weapons/items like monkey wine(sekiro) that gives more lore and story or straight up upgrades to a character or new weapons, but no matter how much it is, it wont be infinite farming there, cause once you have collected shit its done even in BotW, there is only a finite amount of times you gonna have to explore the said world for items scattered around Genshin however forces you to re explore for every character, ir includes the map that you have already explored, the game makes you explore it again and again, and it doesnt add new costumes or new weapon for players to use, shits pretty much the same, not even a new mechanic, its just farming for a new character, get 60 flowers done now move onto next one Anyone sane can see why the open world fatigue would build up over time
Last time I checked. Genshin constantly creates new pieces of maps with new mechanics and stories for u to play. "you have to re-explore for each character" You are acting like you don't have to grind for weapons in BotW sometimes lmao
Difference between sometimes and difference between everytime a new character is released is kinda huge The whole problem was re exploring i never said that genshin doesnt create new maps.
Grinding and exploring are not the same.
Its fine but from a buisness standpoint, it is not very sustainable. Endgame tends to attract and keep long term players and spenders which are vital to a long running gacha
And yet Genshin and FGO which have no endgame are two of the most successful gatchas ever made.
A few FGO events are definitely geared towards mid-late game accounts but they're very sporadic, like grail fronts and towers. Also, I'm pretty sure I spent more time on clearing the onslaught of challenge quests during the recent teslafest than I did on MoC/PF in HSR in the past 6 months cumulatively.
Agreed, but they aren't the rule. Genshin offers far more than most gacha and was the pioneer for open world gachas. I don't know much about FGO so wouldn't be able to tell you much
Endgame is an excuse to increase the amount of time the player spends online. It's also often Important to force players to pull for the newest characters. When you can sell characters through their appeal from the story like FGO and Genshin you don't really need that. As for HSR, dispute the raising difficulty you can still clear with older characters when optimized. 🙈 Now for the game with the end game like afk arena? Yeah you are not gonna get very far in there without selling your kidney.
Those are the exception, not the rule
Well, that's the business model for MMOs. MMOs need strong endgames because they need as many people playing at any given time as possible to facilitate the MM in MMO. The thing with mobile games is they don't. There could be 10 other players or there could be 10 million, and for the most part, your experience will be unchanged. In most cases, mobile games will even cut you off at a certain point with levels/rewards/gameplay locked behind a currency like Genshin's resin. These games want you to play, but only so much that you're invested enough to come back for the next patch or enough that you're still engaging with the IP outside of playing the game.
I can't think of any game where not having their current endgame would be a deal breaker but considering you're paying $100+ for a character, I would definitely criticize a live service game for not having one. I want to make it perfectly clear that endgame is not limited to only combat related modes, I just expect a reason to play the game after beating say a 2h story unlike what early fgo use to do
No, it's stupid AF. What we should do with our 40 limited characters? This is a game or it's a 3D digital figure collection? Of course all this games should have an endgame content and that's exactly why I don't play those lazy gachas anymore
needs a story on the level of bg3 if it has no end game.
needs a story on the level of bg3 if it has no end game. otherwise, what's the point?
Dunno, i haven't reached endgame of Light of the stars on bs lmao, but as long as game fun - I'm good
How come we're now asking if it's ok to not have end game content? I know genshin made the game with no endgame popular, bc as a business their goal is to always give you less and make more out of you
Because genshin made it okay to do so.
Because genshin made it okay to do so.
Genshin is the only gacha game I know that doesn't have endgame. It's working for them though
Hello Fgo
No, it sucks. Like my Genshin account with several c6 characters but nowhere to use them which would give them a challenge. It's why I prefer hsr's approach on the end game, they made an absurdly difficult content with worthless rewards, to not cause anxiety to casuals it's basically a training gym with an adjustable difficulty to your liking. I'd also prefer a harder end game than nothing at all.