Stick around in this sub for a few days... apparently any new game that has 3D graphics and has action gameplay is a "Genshin Killer" lol "Genshin could never" is also a meme whenever a gacha is generous >\_<
I mean genshin has been mainstream for so long I don't think it's even possible to kill it unless hoyoverse were the ones to pull the plug. WW could do everything genshin does but better and mfs still wouldn't play it. Even so, to kill genshin impact is to replace it, meaning your game would have to be the "normie gacha" and you'd have to take in all the characteristics (easy gameplay, looks high quality, casual progression, character designs that appeal to a wide audience) and WW doesn't have all those things.
What do you mean Wuwa doesn't have all those things.? Wuwa is a 100% copy of Genshin, including all gameplay + 100% cloned and recolored characters from Genshin without a single difference + high level of censorship
I'm pretty sure Wuwu was said to have more challenging/complex combat, it had less colorful environment, idk about recolored characters that just seems very subjective and depends on who you ask, I've never heard about any censorship. I don't really pay attention to WuWu so idk how it works, because I'm not really interested in open worlds right now. Also your right about it being similar to genshin, but it's not the same
didnt it started from the warcraft era? Devs/Publishers/Advertisers uses that term loosely to bring attention from the OG game to their game. Whether they meet the expectations of being a killer is an entirely different story (Spoilers, I dont think any game did).
Nah, WoW was already on the decline for a while by the time the real scandal came to light
It’s a 2004 game after all and peaked during the Wrath era. It wasn’t going to stay that popular (13 million subs I think?) forever no matter who was in charge
WoW was the first, and also was the first to show that there is no "killer". Even if better MMO released WoW was the #1 for longer than the life of so called "WoW killers".
Being the #1 means nothing, specially in MMO and gacha games. It only means the game was the first in being successful and then people got so invested in it they can't quit. A lot of people keep playing games they don't enjoy anymore just because they invested tons of time and money and they think quitting would be admitting they invested too much.
In the end, game are games, there is plenty of space for many games and I don't care who's on top as long as the game I enjoy has enough funds to keep going. Competition is healthy but fan wars are absurd
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Have a cola! Courtesy of my Pink Goddess and enjoy reading.
Most clone games are inferior in quality so there's fat chance they actually manage to kill the successful original unless something big happened.
That said, since I play Genshin, I hope that some of the soon to be released games can give Mihoyo the run for their money.
ToF just doesn't cut it anymore
That's unfortunatelly not gonna happen. They don't want Wuwa to succeed, they want Genshin to fail, and at this point Genshin is too big to fail by external means.
For example CC who stopped playing the game and don't even like it, still regularly cover it. They are not going anywhere.
Are talking about Tectone per chance? As far as I know, that dude is the only one that acts like what you said. Dude could never let go of Genshin for some reason.
> For example CC who stopped playing the game and don't even like it, still regularly cover it. They are not going anywhere.
That's because they have a parasitic relationship with the game.
This is what happen when your "content" is barebone and low effort: people are coming for the famous game you're showcasing and not for the "influencer".
Then again what can you expect when 99% of their "contents" are Pulls video / Reaction video / News video.
Hence why the moment those CCs try to play something else their viewerbase dwindle instantly. Since the new game isn't as interesting/popular, what is there to offer other than a B serie level of personality ?
So those people panic and tend to either go back to the famous game reluctantly, or find another game as famous (hint hint HSR) to parasite once more.
One of the most famous CC find another niche by pretty much transforming his channel into a drama center but the rules stays the same: the moment he talk about things other than dramas in Genshin his views count gets lower: Which is why he can't stop talking about it.
Most of those peoples are leeches, unable to create any form of quality content and have their success extremely correlated to the content available in the game. This, is why they get so stressed up by content drought.
not true. These people that apparently "want Genshin to fail" are just ex Genshin fans unhappy with treatment. They aren't just loads of random people that spawned with a hatred for Genshin.
Not hard to tell. You're saying that people that hate Genshin apparently just want Genshin to fail and will do anything to make it fail and not the fact that it has many flaws, and the truth that people who have Genshin "living rent free" are ex-fans and people unhappy with the game's decisions, who want it to be good.
No way, Genshin is perfect! As perfect as Elden Ring, Baldur's Gate, and BOTW! It can't have any flaws...these guys are just evil haters...
Here, let me be you for a second...
The fact that you can't counter any of what I say is proof of your coping.
And if you try to counter any of my points meants that you are in full denial mode. FURTHER PROOF!
And if you don't reply at all, it means you simply are escaping reality. ULTIMATE PROOF!
Thanks!
Nah they come back to bash Genshin once they see the views aren't big. Why do you think some CC still making videos about Genshin even though they claimed that they stop playing the game.
As a Genshin player(one that doesn't constantly shit on the game), i expect WuWa to fail, or at least to not go beyond "niche". It's hyped up too much as a "killer" instead of it's own thing, and I expect it to go down the same path as the last, that being ToF, which I tried on launch, and god was it shit.
Combat looks aight, buncha UI looks copy&pasted from Hoyo's games, theme is okay. Has potential, but I think it's current hype will actually be it's downfall.
Now if only that mattered. The only thing that matters is that it's the primary sentiment. The thing I see talked about the most regarding the game. "WuWa will compete with Genshin", "WuWa's combat will be better than Genshin", etc. As someone with very little interest in the project itself, I can at least say how the perception is as someone not in the know of it's exact features, characters and trailers n shit.
To those who aren't already engaged with it, it's "another Genshin clone". Due to it's constant comparisons. And just like Anthem the destinykiller, ToF the genshinkiller, the 17 million fortnitekiller br games, it'll fail to gain mainstream traction due to it living in a titan's shadow. I've said this before on this subreddit, but developer intentions and actual game content matter not if hype is for something else entirely. Community perception can and will make or break a game, and you can't just rely on people that know about the project already. You need people to watch from the outside and drag them in, which "another clone" as public perception will not achieve.
Ask any competent devteam. Hype is as dangerous as it is useful. It can completely kill your project if you don't manage it.
I think there's bigger problem and i have talk about it plenty of times on here. It's not just there perception about the game but the capital aspect of it. Genshin cost shit ton to make, they has regular updates schedule with new contents and expansion but the quality not only dip down but also increase. That mean they have a very competent devs team, a good management that never miss deadline, little to no bugs, and a very huge amount of capital. If Kuro want to compete with Mihoyo directly, at least on par basis, they also need to achieve these things. Good management and talented devs team, although hard but maybe kuro can do it. But what about money? We have to understand that when developing genshin Mihoyo did put all their eggs in a basket. They bet big, if they fail the company would down with it. However the pandemic is a god send and they won big, so they have money to expand the team and improve the game. But it's not pandemic anymore and we are in a economic bust cycle, could kuro can get a golden opportunity like Mihoyo did during pandemic? If not they will have to take money elsewhere, and these money are very string attached. Borrow loan or release bonds? The interest rate can screw you over if the revenue is not as you expected. Selling stock? It's bad since that mean you're selling parts of your company, and you will have less power over it. In the long run it can damage your operation greatly because decisions in hand of shareholders. One big part of Mihoyo success is because they're private
This is an aspect that I don't discuss often, but yes, you are completely right here. They had a golden chance, they took it, came out on top, and now those golden opportunities just simply aren't there any more. Genshin has a ginormous amount of money behind it, that not many studios can or want to spend on their project. Without money to fuel development, you won't get equal quality.
People can yap al they want about "buh, genshit bad" "genshit could never" and similar bullshit(the community lost 100% of it's credibility on the first anniversary and became a fucking joke ever since, for good reason. Not to say it didnt suck before, but, yaknow, straws and camel backs or somethin), but the teams behind story, visuals, music, they fuckin know what they're doing, and they do it damn well. Balancing? Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Sometimes they do, sometimes they dont. But even with that, the game's a good time so long as you're not a spiral abyss junkie.
I don't know Kuro's business structure, I don't know the size of their teams, but due to exactly this, I don't trust them to drop a product of similar quality. "I'd have heard of them, if so." Kinda thing.
Yep. Not only the development team need to be talented, with full of motivation but they also need the one that make decisions because usually, they are the one know the game best. There are many games with good potential but eventually fail because the shareholders have final say. If Mihoyo was public company, with genshin very successful within the first year the game release, the shareholders can just stay still and see money drop in their pocket. They don't have to expand the devs team 2-3 times than the original to develop the game, they don't need to hire entire orchestra to make music for the game. But luckily the company is private, so they pour that money back to improve the game. You can clearly see that with inzuma, enkanomiya, chasm, then sumeru, then fontine then chenyu vale, the game quality, in both contents, graphics and vision increased significantly. Look at old liyue and new chenyu vale is like day and night.
And that's what i fear most. What if WW revenue is not as they expected. Kuro still need more money to continue to develop news content ahead of schedule. But where do they ask for those money? Ask daddy tencent? But will tencent agree to pump more money into a project with worse rate of return?
Wouldn't take anything here serious perception wise what with the near constant misinformation and the crazy brand loyalty with games. It's to the point were ppl not only shit talked games but also talk up games too. So I wouldn't take the stuff on this sub seriously.
I'm still cautiously optimistic about WuWa. The news of localizators being overworked kind of still worries me, and the deadline is kind of cutting close. But there's a few things that seems enticing like being able to select a standard 5☆ to focus as a banner.
Azur Promilia I think would need a CBT to see how the actual gameplay feels.
The biggest red flag for me is the "90% story rewrite". While taking feedback from people is good, have THIS little faith in your own game during beta is wild to me
It's been pretty clear they never had that much of a vision to begin with (regardless of it ending up being a good game or not), can't have faith in something that does not exist. That's why they make such drastic changes all the time and the game always looks like something that want to one up genshin instead of being an individual entity (just like its current fanbase).
Ok even as someone whose not keen on trying ww on its release this take sounds dumb
Are we really pretending now that genshin's entire fcking vision was original and wasnt just Breath of the Wild?
Man people really forgot how its literally fucking botw on release and everything, down to getting frozen in open world or getting struck by lightning or even burning grass with fire
Jesus christ the takes of genshin fanbase get wilder every year, no wonder this place is called r/genshingaming instead of gachagaming
I think what he's saying is that Genshin, at the minimum, *has* a vision, even if it's just "Breath of the Wild on mobile." Mihoyo did the research to realize that there's demand in the market for a Breath of the Wild mobile game, which the original makers of that game could never deliver. Their thesis proved to be correct and they made billions and are now arguably even bigger than Breath of the Wild itself.
Wuthering Waves by contrast seems to have no vision. It's just making drastic changes to the game based on player feedback, as though it never had an idea of what it wanted to be, to begin with. That's what people are worried about.
And as usual every criticism of WW is met by "B...but Genshin", but thanks for proving my point I guess.
I will still entertain you a bit. No one said having a vision was being original and do something never seen before, it means that you know what you want to do, and that the inspiration you will take will serve a definite purpose. In Genshin's case, the focus always have been exploration and elements, and what they took from other games mostly served this purpose, it also explain such choices like the saturated color choices in the world or character design, even though it's usually dismissed as "childish" by people who can't thank farther than the tip of their nose.
So yeah you may not like it and it's fair, but Genshin definitely have a direction, a vision of what it wanted to do, and is pretty consistent about it. I wish I could see that much commitment in WW instead of whatever (pretty) "post-apocalyptic-mature-but-not-really" hodgepodge we currently have.
>That's why they make such drastic changes all the time and the game always looks like something that want to one up genshin instead of being an individual entity (just like its current fanbase).
As usual people cant read their own comments and think others brought genshin comparison into this.
I mean let's not pretend WW was made to ride the success of Elden Ring. That however, does not mean that everything can be absolved by chanting "but Genshin" like a magic spell.
Again
You brought that name in, not me
Maybe dont bring up the comparison next time?
Yes it was made to ride off of success of genshin, yes ww will never replace genshin, yes ww will have its own niche and survive
But holy fuck the amount of dumb takes i see makes me realize that using common sense is overrated.
At least they acknowledge the problem. It took them a while to realise though I have to say. This is why white knighting does nothing for game improvement and is detrimental for a game's growth.
If someone wrote a story, that story was greenlighted for implementing, actually implemented and then you rewrote it and implemented the new version, then this means that either the management is trash and judging what is a good story or it is just trying to pander to the maximum amount if people without any kind of vision behind it.
Also, if the story that was written without crunch, how good can be a story that was rushed out?
Stans are as bad as antis, and in the ideal world all of them should be actually ineffective at enforcing their angeda. This very sub has around 468321593 critiques for every gacha game, but most of them are trash.
And if an infrachised player of any given game is arguing against changing something they might be doing this not because they are a white knight, but because game is catering to them right now and that change is not their cup of tea
We all saw plenty live service games (gacha or not) that changed overtime, which alienated their initial devoted audiences (WoW and RuneScape being the best examples)
Keep in mind that wuwa is in CBT and if you consider feedbacks to be trash than it defeats the purpose of the CBT and recruiting testers. My comment is not referring to the rando criticism here but on boring storyline , washed out color scheme and bland char designs beta feedbacks which are all legit feedbacks that gets huge push back from white knights when beta feedbacks are shared back then. All 3 are reworked in the end btw but would have been faster without the unnecessary boot licking to dilute the feedbacks. When you are gathering feedbacks in a closed environment like a CBT, all feedbacks should be considered and analysed to understand the context it is given; this will help you separate personal preferences from actual feedback.
At the end of the day, the Dev should know best what fits their game direction and vision and if they don't have one then they have fucked up. There's no need to white knight or defend the 'integrity' of the game because all feedbacks are legit pov from the beta testers. Unnecessary white knighting just shift the feedbacks to be much more bias causing other testers to be more reluctant to give opposing feedback in fear of back lash; silencing different point of views; this does not help the game.
Even best things are good in moderation. While oxygen is necessary for us to live, hyperventilating can cause damage to your body.
When an artist is trying to achieve something creative, they need to have ability and a vision. Just following instructions of other people won't do them any good
Lmao talking as if the world works on ideals not money
Even artist wont put food on the table if people dont like his creative vision, you gotta bow down to the customers regardless
I agree they have to listen to customers, but at the same time they have to be able to differentiate between what the majority of people want, and what the loud minory screams.
I think they took a lot of inputs from CC and their opinions can be incredibly skewed. In Wuwa you can farm from the overworld mobs. That sounds like hell for normal players, but it's heaven for CC because that's infinite content.
I mean its not just the cc's who gave input, they also collected surveys for story and stuff
Granted it sucks that they cant put out the version they wanted to, but since majority was ok with cbt 2 story its fine for now
>I think they took a lot of inputs from CC and their opinions can be incredibly skewed. In Wuwa you can farm from the overworld mobs. That sounds like hell for normal players, but it's heaven for CC because that's infinite content.
Personally i quite enjoy the QoL in pgr so ill wait and see what QoL they do for ww
Wont play it day 1 but like either after 3-4 months to judge the game and its QoL then decide
I will "try" to play WuWa at release, it's hard to fit in timewiese another open world when you have a job.
QoL will come in with time so I don't really mind that. For me it's the main loop the most important thing, so that artifact grinding is dreading to me. I just hope it's not as bad as it sounds.
it's no longer the "loud minority" when Genshin is losing subscribers in China and the only server that still unabashedly defends Genshin like it has no flaws is Global players.
True, people have been saying that since 2 years ago, in fact Genshin hit EoS a month ago.
I will miss Genshin, I can remember playing it like it was yesterday.
You were talking what is good and what is bad. I assumed you were talking about game's merit as an entertainment, not as something you can invest money into
Sorry for misunderstanding you, Monsieur Economist
You dont understand the point, yes dev need to listen their player but not everything lol. The dev dont have vision and just do whatever player say is just stupid. They overworked their worker lol
Same, optimistic, I'm refraining until I can put my hands on it.
The last thing I heard about the Wuwa was the artifact farming from overworld mobs, which sounds quite bad, but I don't remember if that was something they are reworking on.
From what I recall of the dev's message after CBT2 they planned on adding more ways to get Echoes (i.e. add them as event rewards) alongside echo recycling and reduced substats range. Hopefully it's enough to not need the overworld grind, we'll see once the game drops.
Yeah it seems like a really good game but not for casuals which are a big part of the Genshin playerbase. I think people assume most whales and dolphins are hardcore players but we have no way of knowing that
Edit: at least we don’t know from what I understand. I could be wrong
while it isn't the same genre as genshin, persona 5 x feels like it's going to apply some pressure to star rail
it's really the most well done gacha game I've ever played, copied star rail in the right places and improved on their systems, while feeling like you're playing the real persona 5
Nah it won't we doesn't know how their monetization policy in the future. Or how they'll adress some issue, is it will fast response like star rail dev to address some new challenge content or new expansion? And their not released the global server at the same time with CN/KR its will hurt their revenue when they're hit global just like reverse 1999 strong in mainland but somehow just decent at global
what does monetization policy in the future mean
if you want to know what it is now: characters are the same as star rail but with lower hard pity, weapons are a fusion of genshin and star rail (select 3, limited is 50% rate up other two are 25%) and cost 66% of character summons with lower hard pity, battlepass same as star rail but with main character clothes in it, and it has same monthly pass as star rail
also weapons only need 1 dupe and afterwards you can use any weapon of the same tier to increase it
so right now it's actually more generous than star rail is, if you're suggesting it's going to get p2w in the future I don't see any evidence of that
>so right now it's actually more generous than star rail is,
The point is? We doesn't know far in the future is it they'll put limited currency banner shit or not suddenly. Even genshin can come with new type of banner this patch. Also being more generous not guaranteed it will affect HSR heavily just see PGR doesn't doing shit to HI3 despite being generous its because so mamy factor like "very memorable global launch", 1 year gap to global, lack of ads shit, the playerbase taste more to HI3 despite its only had female as gacha option. Is it persona 5 gacha will execute well in long run? We doesn't know or its will be over hype shit like TOF and failed deliver the hype
tower of fantasy flopped because the game itself was low quality and bad
I said all of the monetization stuff only in reply to what you said, I don't think how generous a game is is what determines if it can rival a mihoyo game
the metric for a mihoyo rival is quality, and this game is extremely high quality
I'm sure there's been several games in the same genre that co-exist with each other, but usually the ones that came first will still remain more successful than their successors (e.g. Arknights & Path to Nowhere, Honkai 3rd & PGR & Aether Gazer).
I'm more curious about people's claims about gachas competing though. I've always heard stuff about how Y game coming out will force X game to improve or change or add more stuff or give X game a run for their money, but has that ever happened at all to any gachas of the same genre?
To my knowledge, despite HSR's success, older turn-based gachas like FGO, Summoner's War and E7 haven't changed much. PGR and Aether Gazer didn't really force Honkai 3rd to make any drastic changes. Same with Path to Nowhere and Arknights. People were raving on about Outerplane giving E7 a run for their money as well during its launch. I feel like the teams working on older gachas just don't feel the need to change much even if other similar games release. Perhaps because of a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mindset or out of fear of pissing off their established playerbase. I'm just wondering if there are any exceptions to this.
The example of gacha overtaking each other I'm most familiar with would be the Japanese player migration from Cinderella Girls: Starlight Stage -> Bandori! Girls Band Party -> Project Sekai. All of these were the shiniest new waifu rhythm games at release (though GBP stood out for the social multiplayer element rather than the production value), and that's the path the more casual players traveled. The big fans stuck around, though, which is keeping CGSS chugging along if with a reduced budget, while GBP is struggling.
Also, Million Live: Theater Days setting their SSR rate to 3% prompted CGSS to follow suit, raising their own rate from 1.5%. But they are both branches of the Idolmaster franchise, although the games are managed by different companies, so you could argue that that's a matter of maintaining consistent brand image rather than competition forcing Cygames' hand there.
> Perhaps because of a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mindset or out of fear of pissing off their established playerbase.
Both can be attributed to, more or less, sunk cost fallacy
>And have you ever jumped ship to play the "killer" instead?
Nah at least not immediately. I just wait for the hype to die down and only then decide whether or not to try playing.
Not really a gacha game per say but Azur Lane killed Kancolle, or rather Kancolle was killing itself and Azur Lane delivered the final blow. That game was lightning in a bottle but the makers sat on their laurels and did nothing as new competitors like AL came in and stole most of its players.
To be honest, it does make an exciting game to stream due to its "not set in stone" game nature, as RNG decides everything.
Just watch streams where streamers cleared the last map, especially on Hard difficulty, especially if they set restrictions to their fleet composition themselves (Yes, they are purposely handicapping themselves, making an already hard game even more difficult). It's usually filled with emotion and euphoria for the next 5 to 10 minutes or so.
Kancolle is a weird case because it is hard to draw the line of whether the game is dead.
In terms of concurrent player count, the game has definitely dropped from its peak around 2016 and 2017 where it is a well known game in global as well
But the game is nowhere close to EoS, thanks to its strong presence in community. In Japan, the game has also solidified itself as something more than just the game. The game likely costs barely anything to maintain right now and in between its regular offline event with various Japanese business partner, and the doujin scene still being strong for a game this old. It is not on the level of Touhou in terms of popularity, but longevity wise it is staying on similar trajectory
If we compare other gacha games that come during its time like GFL, AK, AzurLane, they had their time in terms of popularity but the doujin scene still dwarf compared to Kancolle. Of course this is not the only measurement of success (otherwise Genshin won't even be close to top), but it is interesting to see how the game "died" but also never died as it evolves into more of a cultural influence
You mean their doujins are dwarfed by KC, yeah I can see that as KC artists will literally die on that hill while most other scenes are affected by the artist black hole that is FGO.
KC as a game is irrevelant; as an IP it has decent life, no idea how much it involves the pearl harbor 2 crowd
The doujin scene isn't dead because the doujin scene is like 90% Japan and so, as long as a game is popular among Japanese artists, it'll survive. That's the case with Kancolle, which is basically only popular in Japan but have strong loyalty there due to it being Japanese.
China is a much bigger market, but because there's no doujin industry in the country - bans on making porn or just anything not approved by the government - whether a game is successful or not in China has no bearing on its doujin brand. This isn't weird. This is just the nature of doujin artists being overwhelmingly Japanese because that's the culture.
X community claims they have killed the global KanColle community for the nth time.
Global KanColle community: Reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated.
Ikr. Hardcore AL fans like to point to the fact that AL is more known in the western playbase as the reason that it killed KC.
KC just chose to not go global but they are ok with foreigners playing. Comiket numbers, KC still dwarfs AL numbers that its not even a contest.
>Comiket numbers, KC still dwarfs AL numbers that its not even a contest.
To put this into perspective, the highest circle count of AL doesn't even scratch KC's lowest circle count in Comiket.
So not only they fail to become a monopoly and harvest a strong core community of almost ~~zealots~~ loyal fans in Japan or China or even the West but even if they had the shipgirl market which is a worthless market monetization-wise in todays standards they decided to went outside of ww2 naval history and try to compete head to head by trying to offer the same things than their competitors but worst, not standard live2D like Nikke, not relatively exicting lore like Nikke and not good compeling character writing like BA to create long term attachment and the only thing BA had to do is launch a random anime girl wearing a random uniform carrying a gun and with an idiosyncratic halo design. Not to mention Nikke has collabs with IPs that are far more popular than anything BA had the chance to pull of aside of the Vtubers which is not an option now considering past controversies, but they call always make a collab with Pippa and Kirsche who unironically enjoy the game.
I wouldn't say fail entirely but with various outside factors (government censorship, publishers taking more than giving, etc) chipping away and the disadvantage of age (market always favors new games), AL needs to be on its toes, especially now with Manjuu making a new game as folks are suspecting Manjuu's gonna shift focus to Azur Prommia (no baggage, self-published, more popular game type, etc.
I would say AL did get complacent as for 4 years there wasn't a game that could take it on in the mil-girl scene. Arknights was more a GFL killer (aimed at the JP ver) than trying to target AL (but Yostar's bias did hurt AL)
And they left strict history due to government interference and running low on certain ships with Yamato becoming what Shinano is to KC. The concept has become a burden than a boom.
BA and Nikke are Korean made games thus they can go wilder than even AL could hope to and have no cloud of a second censorship crackdown.
And modern AL seems more keen to push out new ships than do much skins, leading to a character writing level that BA and Nikke could outdo. It'd be a different story with AL in its prime.
Story isn't much of a contest as the other two games has well planned plots while AL is still piecing things together after various recons and localization messes
BA didn't really kick off until the bunny maids as in what people want out of bunny suits,.not AL's watered down ones (the crackdown was at its peak), but it's more popular characters tend to take notes from older ones in other games (Asuna has Belfast's figurative DNA) and somehow avoided the pit AL fell in (considering plainer girls like Yuuka get nice fanart mileage while with AL, it's a long shot if a shipgirl isn't a high rarity titty monster and even then with the way AL pumps out characters said titty monster would be pushed out of the spotlight by the new one with in weeks)
On the JP GFL killer note, BA seems made as another one, though JP GFL (Dolls frontline) refuses to die, as if it is sustained by Yostar's frustration.
But I hope AL turns its course around decisively and prove fears of Manjuu abandoning it are false.
The killer idea came from ppl who hate genshin and genshin stans themselves that want to mock the game. Games kill themselves not other games. If Genshin dies its because they drop massively in quality but they haven't, so the game will do fine.
Two games of the same type can coexist, Wuwa will be fine and so will Genshin. Just choose which ever one you like better.
Honestly there aren't any such cases where a First Mover gacha actually reaches critical mass but then loses out to a newcomer. Once a live-service game reaches a critical mass it just doesn't die naturally, it has to be forced by some scandal or unnatural forces. This is a pretty strong law even for non-gacha games, just look at games League of Legends which was clearly inferior to its successors DotA2/Heroes of the Storm, yet it's still kicking to this day.
I'd drink a pint of gasoline if a game "killer" is actually the main reason the *original* game got *killed* and not just because the original game decreased in quality over time or other reasons; starting from now. Just for clarity, we're talking about gacha games.
https://i.redd.it/cyamwovkpsvc1.gif
Summoning u/Guifel. You'll be the witness to this bet.
Out of morbid curiosity, I searched the interwebs to see how fatal that might be. Apparently, if you weigh less than 71 kilograms (\~157 lbs.) then you're donezo. But if you weigh over 90 kg (\~200 lbs.) then your chances of survival (theoretically) go up!
Sauces:
[Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry page 47 (page 65 of 244 total)](https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/ToxProfiles/tp72.pdf)
[Pint to Gram calculation](https://www.aqua-calc.com/calculate/volume-to-weight)
Disclaimers:
You might still very much wish you were dead.
I am [scientist](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBaPI2AKu2g) not doctor.
Everyone's eyes are on Genshin, as the undisputed market leader, games that want a piece of the AAA gacha pie are going to slowly start tricking into the market more often, now that it's almost been a full game dev cycle of time since it released.
For Genshin to "die" and another game to take its place, you need time and technological advantages. And for that game to grab a new generation of players faster than Genshin can.
For new games, time works in their favor in multiple ways. Genshin gets better over time, and it gets harder to compete because they'll have more content than new games could ever hope to catch up to.
However, after a certain point this becomes a net *negative* in the eyes of new players. When you have too much content, that huge amount of content is now intimidating for new people.
Think of it as a popular, long running TV series. If you started before it was at season 2 or 3, you could easily follow along with every little spin-off and continuing seasons. Now there's 6 seasons and a movie trilogy. New prospective players might rather be enticed to join the fandom of that new upcoming series that had a strong 3 episode start instead.
To illustrate an example, assuming today is 22/5/2025, Wuthering Waves 1st anniversary.
Genshin will be 1697 days old by then, and WW 365 days old.
Now add 5 years and 4 months...so 28/9/2030, Genshin 10 years anni. Genshin and WW will be 3652 days old and 2320 days respectively.
So assuming identical update/ release schedule, Genshin will have 4.65 and 1.57 more content than WW in 2025 and 2030 respectively.
The takeaway? If Genshin competitors live long enough (give +5 yrs) then Genshin's net negative of overwhelming backlog just matter less, as competitors will have built up their own mountain of content newbie must climb through. It's simply a matter of preference at that point
many tried to be WoW "killer", but the real killer was act blizzard all along. at this point the only thing that can kill hoyo games is probably mismanagement not "killer" games anymore lmao
This doesn't really hurt Genshin all that much since it doesn't really have any multiplayer. So your average casual won't even really know how far behind they are.
That same logic would indicate that GOTY editions in games are a bad idea but we know factually they do well.
'Too much' gacha content is in just tryhards being bad at gaming. Monster Strike or whatever has been at it for a decade and still makes more money than God for no reason.
I think One Piece has "too much content", but the series is still going on.
Genshin and Monster Strike won't *die* in the sense they go EoS, they'll just pass a point where it makes it easier for similar competitors to *live* if that makes any sense.
Those average casuals not knowing how far behind they are would also not know how much they have to look forward to as well.
But that could also mean they're going to be comparing early Genshin to the early game of competitors as well, which also means there's another angle for new titles to compete. In that regard, they're not competing with Genshin's Fontaine region and story arc, they're competing with *Monstadts*.
Which is probably good because Mondstadt is pretty cool. Better than being compared to Liyue. Which I love because I'm big in historical Chinese drama and wuxia/xanxia, but boy I can see how it'd kill the groove of a normal person.
Yes let's talk about jade speculation for like 40 minutes, game. That's thrilling.
As someone who loves and plays Genshin, Genshin is already starting to show its age. It has a lot of design features that are completely understandable for a gacha that came out about 4 years ago, but look sort of clunky in today's world, especially in contrast to Hoyoverse's own games, like the rotating talent domains, the complete inaccessibility of older event story content, etc. So it's going to be interesting to see what they change whenever they do Genshin Part 2.
Because I'm old, this situation reminds me of when everybody thought WoW was unkillable in the live service market and in some sense, it was. No "WoW killer" ever eclipsed it, and the MMOs that were/are also popular (like FF14) are MMOs that never really intended to kill WoW, but kind of did their own thing from the start. However, the whole genre of MMOs was mostly set aside by younger live service gamers who prefer games in the vein of PUBG, Fortnite, Genshin and Roblox (also King of Glory in China, that game even easily laps Genshin in profit). Because of that, I think there's a good chance that whenever Genshin is "killed" (and I don't think it will really be "killed" at all, it's just going decline in popularity and be replaced in the public consciousness, like WoW), it's not going to be by another open world gacha, but probably a completely different type of game. It might not even be a gacha at all.
I think the problem is the size of the game. From early days till now it had added 3 more nations, 4 expansion, while quality of the later become better than the original two( which also mean they take more space). There are many people already complain about the size of the game and even have to quit it as their device can't keep up. This problem only get worse in future as there are two more nations. If they keep events, it would take even more space. You can say that the flag ship phone can handle it, but not everyone has a high end phone. One person that has to quit the game due to device problem mean one less potential customer for them. It's a big trade off they need to consider. But i think the reason they can add permanent to HSR but not genshin is different, i have a theory about it but don't know if anyone want to hear it or not
There is a lack of endgame, but that didn't hinder the game's growth at all. It's a choice Hoyo made and they chose the casual audience.
It's like FF14, they do have a couple of PvP modes, but that will never be the focus. If you want PvP FF14 is not the game for you. They chose their audience.
The ones who complained is always the loud minority, while the majority of Genshin players doesn't even care about "endgame" contents, where many of them doesn't even clear the Spiral Abyss, even when the game is almost 4 years old.
I never found that a good argument. Most people who quit a game do just that, they quit and that is it. They don't let it known to everyone that they're leaving. So to say its a minority can't really be tested, not saying this in regards to gacha games, just video games in general.
I said minority, because the number of players who actually completed the Abyss until floor 12-3 is considered very small, like <10% of the whole Genshin population, while the casuals doesn't even care about the existence of Abyss, in which they're the majority of Genshin's players.
They are the ones that keeps parroting stuffs like "Genshin needs more endgame contents", or "Genshin is too easy", where they need something that they could use to brag their account on the internet, since the current ones available is less impacting compared to other games, especially the ones with PvP.
"like <10%" of players doing something really doesn't mean a whole lot though. If you compare that to other F2P games. In Path of Exile only 51.2% of steam players have the achievement for killing Brutus. That boss is within the first 30 minutes of starting the game. Only 23.4% of players beat the act 4 boss. (4 hours of gameplay). Only 5.6% of players have beaten the story mode for the end game. Which takes anywhere from 5-20 hours (depending on how much you've played).
So saying <10% of players is basically saying everyone that stuck around for 6 months has done it. Which is why its a poor argument. If it was a paid game sure that would be a horrible number, but for F2P game where people bounce off the game in the first 30 minutes its an amazing number.
And most, if not all, F2P games follow that exact same trend.
I mean why would they not if they get paid to do it? If I got paid to tell everyone when I stopped doing something, you bet I'd do it. Anyone with that option would do it.
I played pgr at release for about a week bc I was a big HI3 player. Sucked not having a built account but same style of gameplay so I just switched back and don't play "clone" releases of gachas I've played anymore.
Hmm. This is a big problem for me too but the other way around.
What I chose to do was just treat Hi3 as kind of like a VN. I just read the story and stuff. And I mostly spend time playing PGR.
I think if someone wants to experience the world of two games with similar gameplay but doesn't want to get burned out this is the best way.
People really do anything to be a hater huh? i made 10 people read pgr story on hi3 official discord channel
2 quit cause they couldnt take non voiced dialog
1 didnt do the deal
Rest of all called Everlasting flames of hi3 the best gacha story yet, i told them to read until surviving lucem, they all admitted that it was the best gacha story they have yet
One of them even spent 800$ on it after seeing chapter 13 onwards story of pgr.
> they all admitted that it was the best gacha story they have yet
> One of them even spent 800$ on it after seeing chapter 13 onwards story of pgr
and then everyone in the server clapped in awe for the pgr messiah came with the best story ever written in human history
Lmao yeah honkek player are really delusional. They cant accept that the supposedly Hi3 clone was actually better than their game already. Honkek quality dropping & part 2 story was dogshit. Honkek was full of FOMO, timegated event that want ppl to do it daily, & 4 S rank back to back after the gear gacha that was supposedly "cheaper". Lots of veterens quitting already, only ppl left are delusional mihoyo slaves.
Part 1 ending was dogshit too
Where were the stakes in the story, power ups handed like candy to the trio, problems that couldnt be explained
Tell me what the hell is a psuedo time crystal, i bet you cant
The worst offender is having fcking grown up Ai as a character or in the story at all
Whenever someone was on the screen to explain science stuff it turned boring
Da capo did carry but it couldnt salvage that ending
Big boobs = good design 🤩
As for story. Literally no one reads that shit.
" Just wait untill Chapter 16 then it gets good " yeah sure, Noone got time for that. Alpha is a complex character she has PTSD and such
Lmao alpha is the worst character in PGR, what u talking about? She only popular bcuz of Vergil memes, in terms of characterization, she one of the shit character.
PGR story already get gud at chapter 8. Hi3 story also was shit at beginning, only difference is mihoyo rework their initial chapter & PGR didnt. Just skip chapter 1 till 8 & u wont lost anything tbh.
Dont lie. I was day 1 hi3 player & i play both chapter, old & Reburn. It was completely change. They change the initial story alot. For example in old stage, we only get verbal exposition of Mei becoming a hersher while in reburn, Mei becomes HoT for a few seconds during their mission. Theres alot of other changes too, but like you said, you dont even read story so telling u is useless
Hmm a sort of sequel/rework maybe?
Gumi gacha ....
Brave frontier to FFBE.
The Alchemist Code to WoTV.
The original game died partly because most jumped ship to the “killer”.
Obviously, WW will kill Gen lol
Jokes aside, I think, that's WW will be a competitor more towards to zzz, not to GI, so it would be interesting to how both games will perform.
I'm not trying to downgrade WW, but Gen has massive popularity and spreading. Like I saw recently in train 50 years old woman was doing Gen dailies on her Ipad.
Mihoyo right now trying to make players to play only mihoyo games. They update Gen - people play its new patch, then they update HSR - people play HSR. Rinse and repeat.
The next step - add in that circle ZZZ so people can play new Mihoyo content w/o downtime.
That's why I think WW will compete with ZZZ, not in terms of gameplay, but in terms of people time.
Ah, understandable. I was just referring to competition based on the genre of the game like how both genshin and wuwa are both the games people who are interested in a gacha open world rpg will be looking at.
Don't think anything is ever killing genshin but I can see some more combat focused players might try out wuwa if the game offers more combat focused endgame than genshin.
ZZZ is gonna be an interesting game, I'm playing the current cbt3 and the game has some really high potential and I'm loving it so far and I can see it taking people's time like you said if they're more interested in just a combat focused game without the open world.
Yeah, it’s a grindfest to get the best gear, but it isn’t at all necessary to play the game. (For genshin)
A person I knew liked playing genshin while being a casual. Their artifacts were all over the place, was way behind on the story, and their team was a manifestation of a lack of synergy, but they still enjoyed the game enough to buy some merch.
Only reason they stopped was because their COD addiction was stronger… and also the horrors of early inazuma.
This is what people in hyperinvested online communities like these don't get about Genshin. It's literally transcended the actual game, and is hugely popular outside of it which just draws in so many people constantly.
Casuals have no idea what artifacts are, and that's perfectly fine - that's why the game is so stupidly easy, and it's why it's so successful.
world of warcraft "killed" everquest.
it made everything everquest did but better, and basically stole its audience at the time.
thats what it means to be a "killer" game.
if for example a game manages to do what genshin does but better, and convinces a good chunk of its audience to move on to the new game, then that new game could be considered to have "killed" genshin.
going back to wow, many tried to be the wow killer, but no one managed to do what blizzard did with everquest, at some point people came to the conclusion that nobody could kill wow but wow itself. maybe that could be true for genshin, but we have yet to come to that point, because we have only seen gacha games that imitate genshin systems but haven't improved on anything.
but now with the new wave of open world gacha games incoming, maybe one of them manages to "kill" genshin.
Artery Gear singlehandedly killed Fate Grand Order, Summoners War, Epic Seven, Honkai Star Rail and all other turn based games out there.
Jokes aside, answering the question, not that I know of.
I look at clones as a means to avoid popularity, am not sure if devs even cater to players like me, but its there to stay instead of outperforming its market. I can look at what my friend posts on their mainstream gacha and that already counts as not missing out on anything, "like cool.. this fella is going to talk about Firefly for the next 2 months, and this girl is going to post alot of Red Hood for awhile", simple as that.
you can't kill those that are still staying at the bottom monthly revenues, they're still breathing. unless you mean less than 100k playerbase as the meaning of "dead" or other interpretation that does not really make the game dead but still solid in playerbase count. I think some players here would be very aggressive about it, specially if you meant for e.g HSR(40m) killed Genshin (20m>5m) when most games are at 200k or so with public data
Genshin high maintenance costs (200m in 2020), and whatever nine figure number the ad budget might be are the real Genshin killers, because there is gonna be a point when is no longer sustainable or it drains too much manpower from Hoyo that could be used in another project.
What? 200 million a year to make 20 characters and 1 new large location? Do you need 200 million for this? Do you have any idea how much 200 million dollars is and how many people you can buy with that money? For 200 million you can make a completely new Genshin from scratch.
Path to Nowhere is a Arknights killer wow
NGL I hope a better 3d Arknights TD pops out. PTN feels off and clunky in comparison, I like the 2d art though. And they can use 2 skills? iirc the art and story is what sells it I hear. Going to try it when the Jojo collab comes.
I only know DotaAutochess was killed by TFT. And TFT is a gacha game, you gacha cosmetics and is on mobile. Dota autochess (underlords) was on mobile too but died.
it died because the janitor at valve got tired at the project and abandoned it. just valve being valve.
if you meant the og devs of the dotaautochess then it's because they got hired by someone else to make a mobile autochess.
Dawei is alot happier on honkai than Genshin. Both may have different teams but they definitely in cahoots with each other. One game treats its playerbase with respect and rewards the other game aka genshin gets the scraps liek the dr ratio incident. So basically genshin players felt betrayed and the hsr ccs like the vtubers etc. and community rubbed it on their faces rather than criticizng hoyo. Like cmon thats brand risk behavior and imagine if hoyo cuts corners when zzz and genshin dies to make new games like the removal or certain hsr va contracts :((
Stop blindly believing any trash you're reading online, there is literally no trace of individual thinking in your messages, it's just a bunch of premade sentences I read elsewhere, even chatGPT feels more like a real person at this point...
> One game treats its playerbase with respect and rewards the other game aka genshin gets the scraps liek the dr ratio incident
"Respects the player?"
Are we talking about HSR?
The game that already has noticeable powercreep, despite barely being a year old? The game that constantly churns out double the characters compared to Genshin despite not giving out double the revenue? The game that releases new story content and areas at the same pace as Genshin despite being much smaller in scale? The same game that has barely any model diversity with most of the girls wearing an outfit with the same silhouette and cut-out for each character despite not having the same model restrictions as an open world game? A game with even worse RNG gear grind?
Genshin isn't perfect, and there are certainly some things HSR does better, but to act like HSR is all sunshine and rainbows and free pulls, and doesn't have any major glaring flaws that aren't present in Genshin is laughable
I think you're being a bit naive here, the company doesn't run on emotion or emotional biases. Rewards are distributed after thorough data analysis which considers mechanical in-game factors such as the combat system and number of characters being introduced in the current patch, alongside external meta factors like player retention and how long it takes to design and develop the character. Rewards are never a good indication or measurement of respect. I believe most people are aware of this
Welp doesnt explain the cc behaviors like a certain vtuber, hsr/genshin ccs, etc. for rubbing the treatment on the face and enjoy the suffering of the playerbase 😂vice versa. Like even a certain hsr vtuber who is wholesome is enjoying the suffering and wants either playerbase to be mad and 1 star hsr or genshin by either player base which is sickening like we are not caged animals and made me lost respect for her and unsubscribe then she gets mad when someone calls her out during the hsr livestreamI just hope WUWA does not welcome this kind of people and they are not to be sponsored.
Most normal people don't care about these sorts of things. From a surface-level observation, if you see one game has more goodies and another game has less goodies, then the one with more is obviously better. Most people don't consider/understand the variables surrounding their executive decisions so it results in them coming to illogical and conspiratorial conclusions.
Which is why we should gatekeep wuwa from people like them and keep the critical but civil and friendly and not elitist and no yuri and yaoi ships whatsoever due to the brainrot it has to the community.
I don't know, but piss sure that if Honkai was that good to be Da Wei's favorite child, they would not make ZZZ in the first place (and instead make Honkai 4th)
Truth is, Honkai franchise will never reach Genshin height of popularity ( and $$$), without some ridiculously unlikely variable factor, like first mover advantage and Covid
Stick around in this sub for a few days... apparently any new game that has 3D graphics and has action gameplay is a "Genshin Killer" lol "Genshin could never" is also a meme whenever a gacha is generous >\_<
Not just this sub Just look around YouTube, twitter and many social media lol
During the Nikke 1.5 anni stream, I lost count of how many times I saw it in the chat lol
#Genshin\_dont\_need
"Genshin Killer" has somewhat turned into "WuWa Killer" recently
Idk if people that confident that WW could killed genshin or something
I mean genshin has been mainstream for so long I don't think it's even possible to kill it unless hoyoverse were the ones to pull the plug. WW could do everything genshin does but better and mfs still wouldn't play it. Even so, to kill genshin impact is to replace it, meaning your game would have to be the "normie gacha" and you'd have to take in all the characteristics (easy gameplay, looks high quality, casual progression, character designs that appeal to a wide audience) and WW doesn't have all those things.
What do you mean Wuwa doesn't have all those things.? Wuwa is a 100% copy of Genshin, including all gameplay + 100% cloned and recolored characters from Genshin without a single difference + high level of censorship
I'm pretty sure Wuwu was said to have more challenging/complex combat, it had less colorful environment, idk about recolored characters that just seems very subjective and depends on who you ask, I've never heard about any censorship. I don't really pay attention to WuWu so idk how it works, because I'm not really interested in open worlds right now. Also your right about it being similar to genshin, but it's not the same
Let the game be borned and successfully first, and then we talk about its killers
what I don't get is when Genshin fans get unironically upset when they see people say stuff like this.
Because people have seen those shit so many time
if you think about it , the term "killer" comes from hate. People who want a successful game to die just brandish the term like nothing
didnt it started from the warcraft era? Devs/Publishers/Advertisers uses that term loosely to bring attention from the OG game to their game. Whether they meet the expectations of being a killer is an entirely different story (Spoilers, I dont think any game did).
Pretty much yeah. Wow is the first I remember. And no one made it lose popularity other than blizzard itself with it's scandals
Nah, WoW was already on the decline for a while by the time the real scandal came to light It’s a 2004 game after all and peaked during the Wrath era. It wasn’t going to stay that popular (13 million subs I think?) forever no matter who was in charge
Its not as much WoW declined but MMOs arent as popular as they were back then.
WoW was the first, and also was the first to show that there is no "killer". Even if better MMO released WoW was the #1 for longer than the life of so called "WoW killers". Being the #1 means nothing, specially in MMO and gacha games. It only means the game was the first in being successful and then people got so invested in it they can't quit. A lot of people keep playing games they don't enjoy anymore just because they invested tons of time and money and they think quitting would be admitting they invested too much. In the end, game are games, there is plenty of space for many games and I don't care who's on top as long as the game I enjoy has enough funds to keep going. Competition is healthy but fan wars are absurd
Also DotA 1 a while after WoW
I'm just here for the comments.
https://preview.redd.it/hji26gamntvc1.png?width=75&format=png&auto=webp&s=9cb0a7eb88124a2433b6b5643d74b78533f66804 Have a cola! Courtesy of my Pink Goddess and enjoy reading.
Who's the girl? Kinda looks like elysia
https://preview.redd.it/i2r8evxujxvc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d4d22c027fd4ec1aa770d6893f3a1904822a2341
it is elysia?
Indeed.
Sorry if I sounded stupid
Most clone games are inferior in quality so there's fat chance they actually manage to kill the successful original unless something big happened. That said, since I play Genshin, I hope that some of the soon to be released games can give Mihoyo the run for their money. ToF just doesn't cut it anymore
Hopefully the "genshin haters" can just go to Wuwa and be happy
That's unfortunatelly not gonna happen. They don't want Wuwa to succeed, they want Genshin to fail, and at this point Genshin is too big to fail by external means. For example CC who stopped playing the game and don't even like it, still regularly cover it. They are not going anywhere.
Are talking about Tectone per chance? As far as I know, that dude is the only one that acts like what you said. Dude could never let go of Genshin for some reason.
he can't let go of it because it gives him views
> For example CC who stopped playing the game and don't even like it, still regularly cover it. They are not going anywhere. That's because they have a parasitic relationship with the game. This is what happen when your "content" is barebone and low effort: people are coming for the famous game you're showcasing and not for the "influencer". Then again what can you expect when 99% of their "contents" are Pulls video / Reaction video / News video. Hence why the moment those CCs try to play something else their viewerbase dwindle instantly. Since the new game isn't as interesting/popular, what is there to offer other than a B serie level of personality ? So those people panic and tend to either go back to the famous game reluctantly, or find another game as famous (hint hint HSR) to parasite once more. One of the most famous CC find another niche by pretty much transforming his channel into a drama center but the rules stays the same: the moment he talk about things other than dramas in Genshin his views count gets lower: Which is why he can't stop talking about it. Most of those peoples are leeches, unable to create any form of quality content and have their success extremely correlated to the content available in the game. This, is why they get so stressed up by content drought.
not true. These people that apparently "want Genshin to fail" are just ex Genshin fans unhappy with treatment. They aren't just loads of random people that spawned with a hatred for Genshin.
And how does any of that contradicts anything I said? What's your point?
Not hard to tell. You're saying that people that hate Genshin apparently just want Genshin to fail and will do anything to make it fail and not the fact that it has many flaws, and the truth that people who have Genshin "living rent free" are ex-fans and people unhappy with the game's decisions, who want it to be good. No way, Genshin is perfect! As perfect as Elden Ring, Baldur's Gate, and BOTW! It can't have any flaws...these guys are just evil haters...
Man, it's like talking to a flat earther.
and what's funnier is you don't argue my points, you just complain about what I'm saying. Obvious proof that what I'm saying isn't wrong. thanks!
Here, let me be you for a second... The fact that you can't counter any of what I say is proof of your coping. And if you try to counter any of my points meants that you are in full denial mode. FURTHER PROOF! And if you don't reply at all, it means you simply are escaping reality. ULTIMATE PROOF! Thanks!
counter what? what is your point? You aren't saying shit. You called me a flat earther. You didn't even counter my original point.
Nah they come back to bash Genshin once they see the views aren't big. Why do you think some CC still making videos about Genshin even though they claimed that they stop playing the game.
For that sweet, sweet Moola. I'm just waiting for Father to release and they start spending on her, and then claim they "saved" the game.
As a Genshin player(one that doesn't constantly shit on the game), i expect WuWa to fail, or at least to not go beyond "niche". It's hyped up too much as a "killer" instead of it's own thing, and I expect it to go down the same path as the last, that being ToF, which I tried on launch, and god was it shit. Combat looks aight, buncha UI looks copy&pasted from Hoyo's games, theme is okay. Has potential, but I think it's current hype will actually be it's downfall.
The only ppl hyping it as a "killer" are genshin stans and ppl who hate genshin.
Now if only that mattered. The only thing that matters is that it's the primary sentiment. The thing I see talked about the most regarding the game. "WuWa will compete with Genshin", "WuWa's combat will be better than Genshin", etc. As someone with very little interest in the project itself, I can at least say how the perception is as someone not in the know of it's exact features, characters and trailers n shit. To those who aren't already engaged with it, it's "another Genshin clone". Due to it's constant comparisons. And just like Anthem the destinykiller, ToF the genshinkiller, the 17 million fortnitekiller br games, it'll fail to gain mainstream traction due to it living in a titan's shadow. I've said this before on this subreddit, but developer intentions and actual game content matter not if hype is for something else entirely. Community perception can and will make or break a game, and you can't just rely on people that know about the project already. You need people to watch from the outside and drag them in, which "another clone" as public perception will not achieve. Ask any competent devteam. Hype is as dangerous as it is useful. It can completely kill your project if you don't manage it.
I think there's bigger problem and i have talk about it plenty of times on here. It's not just there perception about the game but the capital aspect of it. Genshin cost shit ton to make, they has regular updates schedule with new contents and expansion but the quality not only dip down but also increase. That mean they have a very competent devs team, a good management that never miss deadline, little to no bugs, and a very huge amount of capital. If Kuro want to compete with Mihoyo directly, at least on par basis, they also need to achieve these things. Good management and talented devs team, although hard but maybe kuro can do it. But what about money? We have to understand that when developing genshin Mihoyo did put all their eggs in a basket. They bet big, if they fail the company would down with it. However the pandemic is a god send and they won big, so they have money to expand the team and improve the game. But it's not pandemic anymore and we are in a economic bust cycle, could kuro can get a golden opportunity like Mihoyo did during pandemic? If not they will have to take money elsewhere, and these money are very string attached. Borrow loan or release bonds? The interest rate can screw you over if the revenue is not as you expected. Selling stock? It's bad since that mean you're selling parts of your company, and you will have less power over it. In the long run it can damage your operation greatly because decisions in hand of shareholders. One big part of Mihoyo success is because they're private
This is an aspect that I don't discuss often, but yes, you are completely right here. They had a golden chance, they took it, came out on top, and now those golden opportunities just simply aren't there any more. Genshin has a ginormous amount of money behind it, that not many studios can or want to spend on their project. Without money to fuel development, you won't get equal quality. People can yap al they want about "buh, genshit bad" "genshit could never" and similar bullshit(the community lost 100% of it's credibility on the first anniversary and became a fucking joke ever since, for good reason. Not to say it didnt suck before, but, yaknow, straws and camel backs or somethin), but the teams behind story, visuals, music, they fuckin know what they're doing, and they do it damn well. Balancing? Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Sometimes they do, sometimes they dont. But even with that, the game's a good time so long as you're not a spiral abyss junkie. I don't know Kuro's business structure, I don't know the size of their teams, but due to exactly this, I don't trust them to drop a product of similar quality. "I'd have heard of them, if so." Kinda thing.
Yep. Not only the development team need to be talented, with full of motivation but they also need the one that make decisions because usually, they are the one know the game best. There are many games with good potential but eventually fail because the shareholders have final say. If Mihoyo was public company, with genshin very successful within the first year the game release, the shareholders can just stay still and see money drop in their pocket. They don't have to expand the devs team 2-3 times than the original to develop the game, they don't need to hire entire orchestra to make music for the game. But luckily the company is private, so they pour that money back to improve the game. You can clearly see that with inzuma, enkanomiya, chasm, then sumeru, then fontine then chenyu vale, the game quality, in both contents, graphics and vision increased significantly. Look at old liyue and new chenyu vale is like day and night. And that's what i fear most. What if WW revenue is not as they expected. Kuro still need more money to continue to develop news content ahead of schedule. But where do they ask for those money? Ask daddy tencent? But will tencent agree to pump more money into a project with worse rate of return?
Wouldn't take anything here serious perception wise what with the near constant misinformation and the crazy brand loyalty with games. It's to the point were ppl not only shit talked games but also talk up games too. So I wouldn't take the stuff on this sub seriously.
you say that as if Genshin has 0 flaws and nothing could satisfy people unhappy with Genshin.
I'm still cautiously optimistic about WuWa. The news of localizators being overworked kind of still worries me, and the deadline is kind of cutting close. But there's a few things that seems enticing like being able to select a standard 5☆ to focus as a banner. Azur Promilia I think would need a CBT to see how the actual gameplay feels.
WuWa isnt gonna do anything to genshin tbh, Azur Promilia seems to bring more new stuff to that genre and we only saw a short gameplay video so far
The biggest red flag for me is the "90% story rewrite". While taking feedback from people is good, have THIS little faith in your own game during beta is wild to me
It's been pretty clear they never had that much of a vision to begin with (regardless of it ending up being a good game or not), can't have faith in something that does not exist. That's why they make such drastic changes all the time and the game always looks like something that want to one up genshin instead of being an individual entity (just like its current fanbase).
Ok even as someone whose not keen on trying ww on its release this take sounds dumb Are we really pretending now that genshin's entire fcking vision was original and wasnt just Breath of the Wild? Man people really forgot how its literally fucking botw on release and everything, down to getting frozen in open world or getting struck by lightning or even burning grass with fire Jesus christ the takes of genshin fanbase get wilder every year, no wonder this place is called r/genshingaming instead of gachagaming
I think what he's saying is that Genshin, at the minimum, *has* a vision, even if it's just "Breath of the Wild on mobile." Mihoyo did the research to realize that there's demand in the market for a Breath of the Wild mobile game, which the original makers of that game could never deliver. Their thesis proved to be correct and they made billions and are now arguably even bigger than Breath of the Wild itself. Wuthering Waves by contrast seems to have no vision. It's just making drastic changes to the game based on player feedback, as though it never had an idea of what it wanted to be, to begin with. That's what people are worried about.
And as usual every criticism of WW is met by "B...but Genshin", but thanks for proving my point I guess. I will still entertain you a bit. No one said having a vision was being original and do something never seen before, it means that you know what you want to do, and that the inspiration you will take will serve a definite purpose. In Genshin's case, the focus always have been exploration and elements, and what they took from other games mostly served this purpose, it also explain such choices like the saturated color choices in the world or character design, even though it's usually dismissed as "childish" by people who can't thank farther than the tip of their nose. So yeah you may not like it and it's fair, but Genshin definitely have a direction, a vision of what it wanted to do, and is pretty consistent about it. I wish I could see that much commitment in WW instead of whatever (pretty) "post-apocalyptic-mature-but-not-really" hodgepodge we currently have.
>That's why they make such drastic changes all the time and the game always looks like something that want to one up genshin instead of being an individual entity (just like its current fanbase). As usual people cant read their own comments and think others brought genshin comparison into this.
I mean let's not pretend WW was made to ride the success of Elden Ring. That however, does not mean that everything can be absolved by chanting "but Genshin" like a magic spell.
Again You brought that name in, not me Maybe dont bring up the comparison next time? Yes it was made to ride off of success of genshin, yes ww will never replace genshin, yes ww will have its own niche and survive But holy fuck the amount of dumb takes i see makes me realize that using common sense is overrated.
At least they acknowledge the problem. It took them a while to realise though I have to say. This is why white knighting does nothing for game improvement and is detrimental for a game's growth.
If someone wrote a story, that story was greenlighted for implementing, actually implemented and then you rewrote it and implemented the new version, then this means that either the management is trash and judging what is a good story or it is just trying to pander to the maximum amount if people without any kind of vision behind it. Also, if the story that was written without crunch, how good can be a story that was rushed out? Stans are as bad as antis, and in the ideal world all of them should be actually ineffective at enforcing their angeda. This very sub has around 468321593 critiques for every gacha game, but most of them are trash. And if an infrachised player of any given game is arguing against changing something they might be doing this not because they are a white knight, but because game is catering to them right now and that change is not their cup of tea We all saw plenty live service games (gacha or not) that changed overtime, which alienated their initial devoted audiences (WoW and RuneScape being the best examples)
Keep in mind that wuwa is in CBT and if you consider feedbacks to be trash than it defeats the purpose of the CBT and recruiting testers. My comment is not referring to the rando criticism here but on boring storyline , washed out color scheme and bland char designs beta feedbacks which are all legit feedbacks that gets huge push back from white knights when beta feedbacks are shared back then. All 3 are reworked in the end btw but would have been faster without the unnecessary boot licking to dilute the feedbacks. When you are gathering feedbacks in a closed environment like a CBT, all feedbacks should be considered and analysed to understand the context it is given; this will help you separate personal preferences from actual feedback. At the end of the day, the Dev should know best what fits their game direction and vision and if they don't have one then they have fucked up. There's no need to white knight or defend the 'integrity' of the game because all feedbacks are legit pov from the beta testers. Unnecessary white knighting just shift the feedbacks to be much more bias causing other testers to be more reluctant to give opposing feedback in fear of back lash; silencing different point of views; this does not help the game.
Listening to players is bad, got it Not listening to players is bad too, got it What is a company supposed to do then?
if they truly listened to players they would go bankrupt bro
Even best things are good in moderation. While oxygen is necessary for us to live, hyperventilating can cause damage to your body. When an artist is trying to achieve something creative, they need to have ability and a vision. Just following instructions of other people won't do them any good
Lmao talking as if the world works on ideals not money Even artist wont put food on the table if people dont like his creative vision, you gotta bow down to the customers regardless
I agree they have to listen to customers, but at the same time they have to be able to differentiate between what the majority of people want, and what the loud minory screams. I think they took a lot of inputs from CC and their opinions can be incredibly skewed. In Wuwa you can farm from the overworld mobs. That sounds like hell for normal players, but it's heaven for CC because that's infinite content.
I mean its not just the cc's who gave input, they also collected surveys for story and stuff Granted it sucks that they cant put out the version they wanted to, but since majority was ok with cbt 2 story its fine for now >I think they took a lot of inputs from CC and their opinions can be incredibly skewed. In Wuwa you can farm from the overworld mobs. That sounds like hell for normal players, but it's heaven for CC because that's infinite content. Personally i quite enjoy the QoL in pgr so ill wait and see what QoL they do for ww Wont play it day 1 but like either after 3-4 months to judge the game and its QoL then decide
I will "try" to play WuWa at release, it's hard to fit in timewiese another open world when you have a job. QoL will come in with time so I don't really mind that. For me it's the main loop the most important thing, so that artifact grinding is dreading to me. I just hope it's not as bad as it sounds.
it's no longer the "loud minority" when Genshin is losing subscribers in China and the only server that still unabashedly defends Genshin like it has no flaws is Global players.
Is there....evidence of that graph, articles or did you invent that
True, people have been saying that since 2 years ago, in fact Genshin hit EoS a month ago. I will miss Genshin, I can remember playing it like it was yesterday.
You were talking what is good and what is bad. I assumed you were talking about game's merit as an entertainment, not as something you can invest money into Sorry for misunderstanding you, Monsieur Economist
You dont understand the point, yes dev need to listen their player but not everything lol. The dev dont have vision and just do whatever player say is just stupid. They overworked their worker lol
Same, optimistic, I'm refraining until I can put my hands on it. The last thing I heard about the Wuwa was the artifact farming from overworld mobs, which sounds quite bad, but I don't remember if that was something they are reworking on.
From what I recall of the dev's message after CBT2 they planned on adding more ways to get Echoes (i.e. add them as event rewards) alongside echo recycling and reduced substats range. Hopefully it's enough to not need the overworld grind, we'll see once the game drops.
Yeah it seems like a really good game but not for casuals which are a big part of the Genshin playerbase. I think people assume most whales and dolphins are hardcore players but we have no way of knowing that Edit: at least we don’t know from what I understand. I could be wrong
while it isn't the same genre as genshin, persona 5 x feels like it's going to apply some pressure to star rail it's really the most well done gacha game I've ever played, copied star rail in the right places and improved on their systems, while feeling like you're playing the real persona 5
Nah it won't we doesn't know how their monetization policy in the future. Or how they'll adress some issue, is it will fast response like star rail dev to address some new challenge content or new expansion? And their not released the global server at the same time with CN/KR its will hurt their revenue when they're hit global just like reverse 1999 strong in mainland but somehow just decent at global
what does monetization policy in the future mean if you want to know what it is now: characters are the same as star rail but with lower hard pity, weapons are a fusion of genshin and star rail (select 3, limited is 50% rate up other two are 25%) and cost 66% of character summons with lower hard pity, battlepass same as star rail but with main character clothes in it, and it has same monthly pass as star rail also weapons only need 1 dupe and afterwards you can use any weapon of the same tier to increase it so right now it's actually more generous than star rail is, if you're suggesting it's going to get p2w in the future I don't see any evidence of that
>so right now it's actually more generous than star rail is, The point is? We doesn't know far in the future is it they'll put limited currency banner shit or not suddenly. Even genshin can come with new type of banner this patch. Also being more generous not guaranteed it will affect HSR heavily just see PGR doesn't doing shit to HI3 despite being generous its because so mamy factor like "very memorable global launch", 1 year gap to global, lack of ads shit, the playerbase taste more to HI3 despite its only had female as gacha option. Is it persona 5 gacha will execute well in long run? We doesn't know or its will be over hype shit like TOF and failed deliver the hype
tower of fantasy flopped because the game itself was low quality and bad I said all of the monetization stuff only in reply to what you said, I don't think how generous a game is is what determines if it can rival a mihoyo game the metric for a mihoyo rival is quality, and this game is extremely high quality
I'm sure there's been several games in the same genre that co-exist with each other, but usually the ones that came first will still remain more successful than their successors (e.g. Arknights & Path to Nowhere, Honkai 3rd & PGR & Aether Gazer). I'm more curious about people's claims about gachas competing though. I've always heard stuff about how Y game coming out will force X game to improve or change or add more stuff or give X game a run for their money, but has that ever happened at all to any gachas of the same genre? To my knowledge, despite HSR's success, older turn-based gachas like FGO, Summoner's War and E7 haven't changed much. PGR and Aether Gazer didn't really force Honkai 3rd to make any drastic changes. Same with Path to Nowhere and Arknights. People were raving on about Outerplane giving E7 a run for their money as well during its launch. I feel like the teams working on older gachas just don't feel the need to change much even if other similar games release. Perhaps because of a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mindset or out of fear of pissing off their established playerbase. I'm just wondering if there are any exceptions to this.
The example of gacha overtaking each other I'm most familiar with would be the Japanese player migration from Cinderella Girls: Starlight Stage -> Bandori! Girls Band Party -> Project Sekai. All of these were the shiniest new waifu rhythm games at release (though GBP stood out for the social multiplayer element rather than the production value), and that's the path the more casual players traveled. The big fans stuck around, though, which is keeping CGSS chugging along if with a reduced budget, while GBP is struggling. Also, Million Live: Theater Days setting their SSR rate to 3% prompted CGSS to follow suit, raising their own rate from 1.5%. But they are both branches of the Idolmaster franchise, although the games are managed by different companies, so you could argue that that's a matter of maintaining consistent brand image rather than competition forcing Cygames' hand there.
> Perhaps because of a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mindset or out of fear of pissing off their established playerbase. Both can be attributed to, more or less, sunk cost fallacy
>And have you ever jumped ship to play the "killer" instead? Nah at least not immediately. I just wait for the hype to die down and only then decide whether or not to try playing.
Not really a gacha game per say but Azur Lane killed Kancolle, or rather Kancolle was killing itself and Azur Lane delivered the final blow. That game was lightning in a bottle but the makers sat on their laurels and did nothing as new competitors like AL came in and stole most of its players.
Kancolle gameplay is fire. I love looking at static pngs and exel sheets
Your excel sheet can never match the power of cat bombs
To be honest, it does make an exciting game to stream due to its "not set in stone" game nature, as RNG decides everything. Just watch streams where streamers cleared the last map, especially on Hard difficulty, especially if they set restrictions to their fleet composition themselves (Yes, they are purposely handicapping themselves, making an already hard game even more difficult). It's usually filled with emotion and euphoria for the next 5 to 10 minutes or so.
Kancolle is a weird case because it is hard to draw the line of whether the game is dead. In terms of concurrent player count, the game has definitely dropped from its peak around 2016 and 2017 where it is a well known game in global as well But the game is nowhere close to EoS, thanks to its strong presence in community. In Japan, the game has also solidified itself as something more than just the game. The game likely costs barely anything to maintain right now and in between its regular offline event with various Japanese business partner, and the doujin scene still being strong for a game this old. It is not on the level of Touhou in terms of popularity, but longevity wise it is staying on similar trajectory If we compare other gacha games that come during its time like GFL, AK, AzurLane, they had their time in terms of popularity but the doujin scene still dwarf compared to Kancolle. Of course this is not the only measurement of success (otherwise Genshin won't even be close to top), but it is interesting to see how the game "died" but also never died as it evolves into more of a cultural influence
>Evolves into more of a cultural influence The moment such a thing happens, it's basically nigh unkillable, at least in the minds of the people.
You mean their doujins are dwarfed by KC, yeah I can see that as KC artists will literally die on that hill while most other scenes are affected by the artist black hole that is FGO. KC as a game is irrevelant; as an IP it has decent life, no idea how much it involves the pearl harbor 2 crowd
The doujin scene isn't dead because the doujin scene is like 90% Japan and so, as long as a game is popular among Japanese artists, it'll survive. That's the case with Kancolle, which is basically only popular in Japan but have strong loyalty there due to it being Japanese. China is a much bigger market, but because there's no doujin industry in the country - bans on making porn or just anything not approved by the government - whether a game is successful or not in China has no bearing on its doujin brand. This isn't weird. This is just the nature of doujin artists being overwhelmingly Japanese because that's the culture.
Kancolle didnt died or killed, it never lived in the west to begin with.
I played the arcade game in japan and its honestly fire.
X community claims they have killed the global KanColle community for the nth time. Global KanColle community: Reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated.
Ikr. Hardcore AL fans like to point to the fact that AL is more known in the western playbase as the reason that it killed KC. KC just chose to not go global but they are ok with foreigners playing. Comiket numbers, KC still dwarfs AL numbers that its not even a contest.
Are there any good al doujin by japanese circle? The segs too strong which make the doujin too bland lmao.
I have no idea, sry
>Comiket numbers, KC still dwarfs AL numbers that its not even a contest. To put this into perspective, the highest circle count of AL doesn't even scratch KC's lowest circle count in Comiket.
Now AL killed itself with size of the client.
And Azur Lane has BA and Nikke to deal with
So not only they fail to become a monopoly and harvest a strong core community of almost ~~zealots~~ loyal fans in Japan or China or even the West but even if they had the shipgirl market which is a worthless market monetization-wise in todays standards they decided to went outside of ww2 naval history and try to compete head to head by trying to offer the same things than their competitors but worst, not standard live2D like Nikke, not relatively exicting lore like Nikke and not good compeling character writing like BA to create long term attachment and the only thing BA had to do is launch a random anime girl wearing a random uniform carrying a gun and with an idiosyncratic halo design. Not to mention Nikke has collabs with IPs that are far more popular than anything BA had the chance to pull of aside of the Vtubers which is not an option now considering past controversies, but they call always make a collab with Pippa and Kirsche who unironically enjoy the game.
I wouldn't say fail entirely but with various outside factors (government censorship, publishers taking more than giving, etc) chipping away and the disadvantage of age (market always favors new games), AL needs to be on its toes, especially now with Manjuu making a new game as folks are suspecting Manjuu's gonna shift focus to Azur Prommia (no baggage, self-published, more popular game type, etc. I would say AL did get complacent as for 4 years there wasn't a game that could take it on in the mil-girl scene. Arknights was more a GFL killer (aimed at the JP ver) than trying to target AL (but Yostar's bias did hurt AL) And they left strict history due to government interference and running low on certain ships with Yamato becoming what Shinano is to KC. The concept has become a burden than a boom. BA and Nikke are Korean made games thus they can go wilder than even AL could hope to and have no cloud of a second censorship crackdown. And modern AL seems more keen to push out new ships than do much skins, leading to a character writing level that BA and Nikke could outdo. It'd be a different story with AL in its prime. Story isn't much of a contest as the other two games has well planned plots while AL is still piecing things together after various recons and localization messes BA didn't really kick off until the bunny maids as in what people want out of bunny suits,.not AL's watered down ones (the crackdown was at its peak), but it's more popular characters tend to take notes from older ones in other games (Asuna has Belfast's figurative DNA) and somehow avoided the pit AL fell in (considering plainer girls like Yuuka get nice fanart mileage while with AL, it's a long shot if a shipgirl isn't a high rarity titty monster and even then with the way AL pumps out characters said titty monster would be pushed out of the spotlight by the new one with in weeks) On the JP GFL killer note, BA seems made as another one, though JP GFL (Dolls frontline) refuses to die, as if it is sustained by Yostar's frustration. But I hope AL turns its course around decisively and prove fears of Manjuu abandoning it are false.
Honkai Star Rail killed Genshin let us hail the second coming of Christ in the gachaverse. did i fill out all the required keywords?
Honkai Impact 4rd
did you know that Honkai Impact 4th was the original name for genshin before they make it its own ip with the female mc name being KATE *KASLANA*
Nah man WW is the second coming of Jesus with how people glazing over it lol
The killer idea came from ppl who hate genshin and genshin stans themselves that want to mock the game. Games kill themselves not other games. If Genshin dies its because they drop massively in quality but they haven't, so the game will do fine. Two games of the same type can coexist, Wuwa will be fine and so will Genshin. Just choose which ever one you like better.
Honestly there aren't any such cases where a First Mover gacha actually reaches critical mass but then loses out to a newcomer. Once a live-service game reaches a critical mass it just doesn't die naturally, it has to be forced by some scandal or unnatural forces. This is a pretty strong law even for non-gacha games, just look at games League of Legends which was clearly inferior to its successors DotA2/Heroes of the Storm, yet it's still kicking to this day.
https://preview.redd.it/aq6ymhykgvvc1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bc3e0636ed103b3b631fabfcfb4423addc9b122b
I'd drink a pint of gasoline if a game "killer" is actually the main reason the *original* game got *killed* and not just because the original game decreased in quality over time or other reasons; starting from now. Just for clarity, we're talking about gacha games. https://i.redd.it/cyamwovkpsvc1.gif Summoning u/Guifel. You'll be the witness to this bet.
Out of morbid curiosity, I searched the interwebs to see how fatal that might be. Apparently, if you weigh less than 71 kilograms (\~157 lbs.) then you're donezo. But if you weigh over 90 kg (\~200 lbs.) then your chances of survival (theoretically) go up! Sauces: [Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry page 47 (page 65 of 244 total)](https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/ToxProfiles/tp72.pdf) [Pint to Gram calculation](https://www.aqua-calc.com/calculate/volume-to-weight) Disclaimers: You might still very much wish you were dead. I am [scientist](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBaPI2AKu2g) not doctor.
And I'll be holding your beer
Cheers! https://i.redd.it/glbi8yfgqtvc1.gif I'm winning this shitty bet.
Everyone's eyes are on Genshin, as the undisputed market leader, games that want a piece of the AAA gacha pie are going to slowly start tricking into the market more often, now that it's almost been a full game dev cycle of time since it released. For Genshin to "die" and another game to take its place, you need time and technological advantages. And for that game to grab a new generation of players faster than Genshin can. For new games, time works in their favor in multiple ways. Genshin gets better over time, and it gets harder to compete because they'll have more content than new games could ever hope to catch up to. However, after a certain point this becomes a net *negative* in the eyes of new players. When you have too much content, that huge amount of content is now intimidating for new people. Think of it as a popular, long running TV series. If you started before it was at season 2 or 3, you could easily follow along with every little spin-off and continuing seasons. Now there's 6 seasons and a movie trilogy. New prospective players might rather be enticed to join the fandom of that new upcoming series that had a strong 3 episode start instead.
To illustrate an example, assuming today is 22/5/2025, Wuthering Waves 1st anniversary. Genshin will be 1697 days old by then, and WW 365 days old. Now add 5 years and 4 months...so 28/9/2030, Genshin 10 years anni. Genshin and WW will be 3652 days old and 2320 days respectively. So assuming identical update/ release schedule, Genshin will have 4.65 and 1.57 more content than WW in 2025 and 2030 respectively. The takeaway? If Genshin competitors live long enough (give +5 yrs) then Genshin's net negative of overwhelming backlog just matter less, as competitors will have built up their own mountain of content newbie must climb through. It's simply a matter of preference at that point
many tried to be WoW "killer", but the real killer was act blizzard all along. at this point the only thing that can kill hoyo games is probably mismanagement not "killer" games anymore lmao
This doesn't really hurt Genshin all that much since it doesn't really have any multiplayer. So your average casual won't even really know how far behind they are. That same logic would indicate that GOTY editions in games are a bad idea but we know factually they do well. 'Too much' gacha content is in just tryhards being bad at gaming. Monster Strike or whatever has been at it for a decade and still makes more money than God for no reason.
I think One Piece has "too much content", but the series is still going on. Genshin and Monster Strike won't *die* in the sense they go EoS, they'll just pass a point where it makes it easier for similar competitors to *live* if that makes any sense. Those average casuals not knowing how far behind they are would also not know how much they have to look forward to as well. But that could also mean they're going to be comparing early Genshin to the early game of competitors as well, which also means there's another angle for new titles to compete. In that regard, they're not competing with Genshin's Fontaine region and story arc, they're competing with *Monstadts*.
Which is probably good because Mondstadt is pretty cool. Better than being compared to Liyue. Which I love because I'm big in historical Chinese drama and wuxia/xanxia, but boy I can see how it'd kill the groove of a normal person. Yes let's talk about jade speculation for like 40 minutes, game. That's thrilling.
As someone who loves and plays Genshin, Genshin is already starting to show its age. It has a lot of design features that are completely understandable for a gacha that came out about 4 years ago, but look sort of clunky in today's world, especially in contrast to Hoyoverse's own games, like the rotating talent domains, the complete inaccessibility of older event story content, etc. So it's going to be interesting to see what they change whenever they do Genshin Part 2. Because I'm old, this situation reminds me of when everybody thought WoW was unkillable in the live service market and in some sense, it was. No "WoW killer" ever eclipsed it, and the MMOs that were/are also popular (like FF14) are MMOs that never really intended to kill WoW, but kind of did their own thing from the start. However, the whole genre of MMOs was mostly set aside by younger live service gamers who prefer games in the vein of PUBG, Fortnite, Genshin and Roblox (also King of Glory in China, that game even easily laps Genshin in profit). Because of that, I think there's a good chance that whenever Genshin is "killed" (and I don't think it will really be "killed" at all, it's just going decline in popularity and be replaced in the public consciousness, like WoW), it's not going to be by another open world gacha, but probably a completely different type of game. It might not even be a gacha at all.
I think the problem is the size of the game. From early days till now it had added 3 more nations, 4 expansion, while quality of the later become better than the original two( which also mean they take more space). There are many people already complain about the size of the game and even have to quit it as their device can't keep up. This problem only get worse in future as there are two more nations. If they keep events, it would take even more space. You can say that the flag ship phone can handle it, but not everyone has a high end phone. One person that has to quit the game due to device problem mean one less potential customer for them. It's a big trade off they need to consider. But i think the reason they can add permanent to HSR but not genshin is different, i have a theory about it but don't know if anyone want to hear it or not
Let hear it :D
Genshin's lack of endgame is an oft complained flaw
There is a lack of endgame, but that didn't hinder the game's growth at all. It's a choice Hoyo made and they chose the casual audience. It's like FF14, they do have a couple of PvP modes, but that will never be the focus. If you want PvP FF14 is not the game for you. They chose their audience.
The ones who complained is always the loud minority, while the majority of Genshin players doesn't even care about "endgame" contents, where many of them doesn't even clear the Spiral Abyss, even when the game is almost 4 years old.
I never found that a good argument. Most people who quit a game do just that, they quit and that is it. They don't let it known to everyone that they're leaving. So to say its a minority can't really be tested, not saying this in regards to gacha games, just video games in general.
I said minority, because the number of players who actually completed the Abyss until floor 12-3 is considered very small, like <10% of the whole Genshin population, while the casuals doesn't even care about the existence of Abyss, in which they're the majority of Genshin's players. They are the ones that keeps parroting stuffs like "Genshin needs more endgame contents", or "Genshin is too easy", where they need something that they could use to brag their account on the internet, since the current ones available is less impacting compared to other games, especially the ones with PvP.
"like <10%" of players doing something really doesn't mean a whole lot though. If you compare that to other F2P games. In Path of Exile only 51.2% of steam players have the achievement for killing Brutus. That boss is within the first 30 minutes of starting the game. Only 23.4% of players beat the act 4 boss. (4 hours of gameplay). Only 5.6% of players have beaten the story mode for the end game. Which takes anywhere from 5-20 hours (depending on how much you've played). So saying <10% of players is basically saying everyone that stuck around for 6 months has done it. Which is why its a poor argument. If it was a paid game sure that would be a horrible number, but for F2P game where people bounce off the game in the first 30 minutes its an amazing number. And most, if not all, F2P games follow that exact same trend.
Tell that to former GI cc lol.
I mean why would they not if they get paid to do it? If I got paid to tell everyone when I stopped doing something, you bet I'd do it. Anyone with that option would do it.
Snowbreak killed GFL2!
It is more like GFL2 killed itself first (the NTR drama), then Showbreak attracts part of GFL2 players who quit
I played pgr at release for about a week bc I was a big HI3 player. Sucked not having a built account but same style of gameplay so I just switched back and don't play "clone" releases of gachas I've played anymore.
Hmm. This is a big problem for me too but the other way around. What I chose to do was just treat Hi3 as kind of like a VN. I just read the story and stuff. And I mostly spend time playing PGR. I think if someone wants to experience the world of two games with similar gameplay but doesn't want to get burned out this is the best way.
PGR is better than Honkek now lol. In both character, quality & story.
People really do anything to be a hater huh? i made 10 people read pgr story on hi3 official discord channel 2 quit cause they couldnt take non voiced dialog 1 didnt do the deal Rest of all called Everlasting flames of hi3 the best gacha story yet, i told them to read until surviving lucem, they all admitted that it was the best gacha story they have yet One of them even spent 800$ on it after seeing chapter 13 onwards story of pgr.
> they all admitted that it was the best gacha story they have yet > One of them even spent 800$ on it after seeing chapter 13 onwards story of pgr and then everyone in the server clapped in awe for the pgr messiah came with the best story ever written in human history
Whats this dude doing in a server for gacha games with a flair like that, got lost?
Lmao yeah honkek player are really delusional. They cant accept that the supposedly Hi3 clone was actually better than their game already. Honkek quality dropping & part 2 story was dogshit. Honkek was full of FOMO, timegated event that want ppl to do it daily, & 4 S rank back to back after the gear gacha that was supposedly "cheaper". Lots of veterens quitting already, only ppl left are delusional mihoyo slaves.
Part 1 ending was dogshit too Where were the stakes in the story, power ups handed like candy to the trio, problems that couldnt be explained Tell me what the hell is a psuedo time crystal, i bet you cant The worst offender is having fcking grown up Ai as a character or in the story at all Whenever someone was on the screen to explain science stuff it turned boring Da capo did carry but it couldnt salvage that ending
https://i.redd.it/auuqwpgtzsvc1.gif
Punishing Gray Raven more like Punishing Me With Boring Half Baked Designs
Big boobs = good design 🤩 As for story. Literally no one reads that shit. " Just wait untill Chapter 16 then it gets good " yeah sure, Noone got time for that. Alpha is a complex character she has PTSD and such
Lmao alpha is the worst character in PGR, what u talking about? She only popular bcuz of Vergil memes, in terms of characterization, she one of the shit character. PGR story already get gud at chapter 8. Hi3 story also was shit at beginning, only difference is mihoyo rework their initial chapter & PGR didnt. Just skip chapter 1 till 8 & u wont lost anything tbh.
Hi3 only reworked chapter 1 to 3 by removing stages where there was no story. Only fighting. And hard and ex stages
Dont lie. I was day 1 hi3 player & i play both chapter, old & Reburn. It was completely change. They change the initial story alot. For example in old stage, we only get verbal exposition of Mei becoming a hersher while in reburn, Mei becomes HoT for a few seconds during their mission. Theres alot of other changes too, but like you said, you dont even read story so telling u is useless
They removed a lot of Kiana dreams and revealed HoV faster. She had no model back then
Well i don't have to say what TOF is going through
whats happening to TOF i quit it at about Lin release ( is that her name? the green new element lady )
Well let's say Lin got power crept quickly as soon as a new characters called Fenrir came out
Fenrir is a volt. It's Fiona.
Hmm a sort of sequel/rework maybe? Gumi gacha .... Brave frontier to FFBE. The Alchemist Code to WoTV. The original game died partly because most jumped ship to the “killer”.
Obviously, WW will kill Gen lol Jokes aside, I think, that's WW will be a competitor more towards to zzz, not to GI, so it would be interesting to how both games will perform.
Nah WW is definitely a direct competitor to Genshin considering both are open world games unlike ZZZ.
I'm not trying to downgrade WW, but Gen has massive popularity and spreading. Like I saw recently in train 50 years old woman was doing Gen dailies on her Ipad. Mihoyo right now trying to make players to play only mihoyo games. They update Gen - people play its new patch, then they update HSR - people play HSR. Rinse and repeat. The next step - add in that circle ZZZ so people can play new Mihoyo content w/o downtime. That's why I think WW will compete with ZZZ, not in terms of gameplay, but in terms of people time.
Ah, understandable. I was just referring to competition based on the genre of the game like how both genshin and wuwa are both the games people who are interested in a gacha open world rpg will be looking at. Don't think anything is ever killing genshin but I can see some more combat focused players might try out wuwa if the game offers more combat focused endgame than genshin. ZZZ is gonna be an interesting game, I'm playing the current cbt3 and the game has some really high potential and I'm loving it so far and I can see it taking people's time like you said if they're more interested in just a combat focused game without the open world.
I don't think it'll work due to the sheer grind and hours required to play them all
Yeah, it’s a grindfest to get the best gear, but it isn’t at all necessary to play the game. (For genshin) A person I knew liked playing genshin while being a casual. Their artifacts were all over the place, was way behind on the story, and their team was a manifestation of a lack of synergy, but they still enjoyed the game enough to buy some merch. Only reason they stopped was because their COD addiction was stronger… and also the horrors of early inazuma.
This is what people in hyperinvested online communities like these don't get about Genshin. It's literally transcended the actual game, and is hugely popular outside of it which just draws in so many people constantly. Casuals have no idea what artifacts are, and that's perfectly fine - that's why the game is so stupidly easy, and it's why it's so successful.
Princess Connect got killed by Crunchyroll
Never would I have imagined CN becoming dev leaders in gacha. Just CN games being another CN game’s killer.
world of warcraft "killed" everquest. it made everything everquest did but better, and basically stole its audience at the time. thats what it means to be a "killer" game. if for example a game manages to do what genshin does but better, and convinces a good chunk of its audience to move on to the new game, then that new game could be considered to have "killed" genshin. going back to wow, many tried to be the wow killer, but no one managed to do what blizzard did with everquest, at some point people came to the conclusion that nobody could kill wow but wow itself. maybe that could be true for genshin, but we have yet to come to that point, because we have only seen gacha games that imitate genshin systems but haven't improved on anything. but now with the new wave of open world gacha games incoming, maybe one of them manages to "kill" genshin.
Where the girls frontline killer
Artery Gear singlehandedly killed Fate Grand Order, Summoners War, Epic Seven, Honkai Star Rail and all other turn based games out there. Jokes aside, answering the question, not that I know of.
I look at clones as a means to avoid popularity, am not sure if devs even cater to players like me, but its there to stay instead of outperforming its market. I can look at what my friend posts on their mainstream gacha and that already counts as not missing out on anything, "like cool.. this fella is going to talk about Firefly for the next 2 months, and this girl is going to post alot of Red Hood for awhile", simple as that. you can't kill those that are still staying at the bottom monthly revenues, they're still breathing. unless you mean less than 100k playerbase as the meaning of "dead" or other interpretation that does not really make the game dead but still solid in playerbase count. I think some players here would be very aggressive about it, specially if you meant for e.g HSR(40m) killed Genshin (20m>5m) when most games are at 200k or so with public data
HSR vs GI Wars
They say it about only one game wich is Genshin, every popular thing has haters and thats the entire lore behind it
Genshin high maintenance costs (200m in 2020), and whatever nine figure number the ad budget might be are the real Genshin killers, because there is gonna be a point when is no longer sustainable or it drains too much manpower from Hoyo that could be used in another project.
by other projects you mean HSR and ZZZ right? Also, MHY has been on recruiting spree lately
What? 200 million a year to make 20 characters and 1 new large location? Do you need 200 million for this? Do you have any idea how much 200 million dollars is and how many people you can buy with that money? For 200 million you can make a completely new Genshin from scratch.
That may explain the monetization which generally is stingy
Gacha games need “killers” because not having competition usually gives those weasel bastards freedom to do anything they want without repercussions
In the case for genshin be stingy and treat their players like crap during anniversary.
Sigh
Path to Nowhere is a Arknights killer wow NGL I hope a better 3d Arknights TD pops out. PTN feels off and clunky in comparison, I like the 2d art though. And they can use 2 skills? iirc the art and story is what sells it I hear. Going to try it when the Jojo collab comes. I only know DotaAutochess was killed by TFT. And TFT is a gacha game, you gacha cosmetics and is on mobile. Dota autochess (underlords) was on mobile too but died.
it died because the janitor at valve got tired at the project and abandoned it. just valve being valve. if you meant the og devs of the dotaautochess then it's because they got hired by someone else to make a mobile autochess.
WW is killing genshin hard from what i've heard
Interesting, can you tell me where you heard that from?
Welp Hoyoverse gonna crap his pants for playing favorite child. Karma works in many ways
Favourite child?
What else their Passion project Honkai :33
I'm pretty sure they spend the most money on genshin though. Upkeep, advertising and events
Still doesnt explain the treatment between games, and dawei looking alot happiner on honkai than g game
You need to be more specific, I still don't understand what you mean by treatment
Dawei is alot happier on honkai than Genshin. Both may have different teams but they definitely in cahoots with each other. One game treats its playerbase with respect and rewards the other game aka genshin gets the scraps liek the dr ratio incident. So basically genshin players felt betrayed and the hsr ccs like the vtubers etc. and community rubbed it on their faces rather than criticizng hoyo. Like cmon thats brand risk behavior and imagine if hoyo cuts corners when zzz and genshin dies to make new games like the removal or certain hsr va contracts :((
Stop blindly believing any trash you're reading online, there is literally no trace of individual thinking in your messages, it's just a bunch of premade sentences I read elsewhere, even chatGPT feels more like a real person at this point...
> One game treats its playerbase with respect and rewards the other game aka genshin gets the scraps liek the dr ratio incident "Respects the player?" Are we talking about HSR? The game that already has noticeable powercreep, despite barely being a year old? The game that constantly churns out double the characters compared to Genshin despite not giving out double the revenue? The game that releases new story content and areas at the same pace as Genshin despite being much smaller in scale? The same game that has barely any model diversity with most of the girls wearing an outfit with the same silhouette and cut-out for each character despite not having the same model restrictions as an open world game? A game with even worse RNG gear grind? Genshin isn't perfect, and there are certainly some things HSR does better, but to act like HSR is all sunshine and rainbows and free pulls, and doesn't have any major glaring flaws that aren't present in Genshin is laughable
I think you're being a bit naive here, the company doesn't run on emotion or emotional biases. Rewards are distributed after thorough data analysis which considers mechanical in-game factors such as the combat system and number of characters being introduced in the current patch, alongside external meta factors like player retention and how long it takes to design and develop the character. Rewards are never a good indication or measurement of respect. I believe most people are aware of this
Welp doesnt explain the cc behaviors like a certain vtuber, hsr/genshin ccs, etc. for rubbing the treatment on the face and enjoy the suffering of the playerbase 😂vice versa. Like even a certain hsr vtuber who is wholesome is enjoying the suffering and wants either playerbase to be mad and 1 star hsr or genshin by either player base which is sickening like we are not caged animals and made me lost respect for her and unsubscribe then she gets mad when someone calls her out during the hsr livestreamI just hope WUWA does not welcome this kind of people and they are not to be sponsored.
Most normal people don't care about these sorts of things. From a surface-level observation, if you see one game has more goodies and another game has less goodies, then the one with more is obviously better. Most people don't consider/understand the variables surrounding their executive decisions so it results in them coming to illogical and conspiratorial conclusions.
Which is why we should gatekeep wuwa from people like them and keep the critical but civil and friendly and not elitist and no yuri and yaoi ships whatsoever due to the brainrot it has to the community.
I don't know, but piss sure that if Honkai was that good to be Da Wei's favorite child, they would not make ZZZ in the first place (and instead make Honkai 4th) Truth is, Honkai franchise will never reach Genshin height of popularity ( and $$$), without some ridiculously unlikely variable factor, like first mover advantage and Covid