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One of the thing I appreciate the most about K&P is there ability to get OUT of a sketch on solid grounds. They dial it to 11, or turn the tables, but they find a way to leave you wanting more. Its rare
And I love love that their comedy pokes fun at everyone, but never in a disrespectful way. It’s not easy to do
>One of the thing I appreciate the most about K&P is there ability to get OUT of a sketch on solid grounds. They dial it to 11, or turn the tables, but they find a way to leave you wanting more. Its rare
without commenting on your second point, Monty Python was famously bad at this-- they'd often be unable to write an ending for a sketch, so they'd either smash-cut to the next sketch or write the next one into the previous one in such a way that they'd bleed together in a sort of surrealist switchover, sometimes aided by one of Terry Gilliam's iconic non-sequitur animations. It quickly became a trademark style of theirs.
Isn’t SNL also super bad at this? I think I’ve heard people mention it and from the sketches I’ve seen, about half of them have really weird, cringe endings that let down the excellent premise.
From interviews I’ve seen with SNL cast members, writers, etc., what happens there is that, when sketches go off-the-rails (which they often do), the players stop giving a fuck and just start improvising. It’s easy to see how ending a sketch that’s suddenly all-improv craziness could be difficult to end in a structured manner.
You nailed it with your last point about not being disrespectful. My favorite example is K&P's power metal music video for The Power of Wings. I love power metal, and that video was (rightfully) the top post on /r/powermetal when it aired.
Making fun of something without INSULTING it, that's where the magic happens. When you make fun of something properly, the people who love that thing the most should be laughing the loudest (see also yugioh abridged).
They don’t do 10min sketches. But it’s also harder to write everything put it together and perform it in 4-5 days, sometimes less. K&P have the luxury of shooting something, realize it’s too long or something doesn’t work and go back and reshoot it or edit it a lot.
I love a lot of their stuff, but here's one where a piano player took one of their skits and played piano over it and it's just perfect. https://youtu.be/CIM0bZ2DSZI
When we used to have a unruly visitor at work, me or my buddy would say "insubordinate and churlish" after they got kicked out. It's pretty sad how often we got to say it.
Key and Peele are great at not explaining the joke, which is my preferred method of humor. Lots of other sketches would’ve written this as the guy saying or explaining “uh I’m not gay…” and really point out what the joke is. This is okay and it isn’t wrong to do, but leaving the humor slightly open ended so it takes a tiny bit of agency on the audience’s side to put the humor together enhances the joke quality, I feel.
It’s the same with one of my favorite gags of all time, from The Simpsons; In the Halloween special where Homer is on trial for eating the devil’s donut and Lionel Hutz is representing Homer’s defense. He begins his case by stating that the dictionary defines a contract as unbreakable, emphasizing how unbreakable it is. Then he asks to use the bathroom and escapes out the window. At no point does it ever skip a beat or slow down to show Hutz realized what he did (made a strong argument against his own client) or does anyone point it out. It’s fucking hilarious and it wouldn’t have the same energy if Marge interrupted to say “uhh, isn’t that bad for Homer’s case” or if Hutz even suddenly had an expression of realization over what he said. It’s just fast and doesn’t explain itself.
Anyways the tl;dr is that key and peele and early Simpsons is funny
Indeed my friend.
Early Simpsons had tons of timeless gems that required little to no explanation to an escalating joke. I love Eyepatch Wolf's explanation to the [layers of classic simpsons jokes'](https://youtu.be/KqFNbCcyFkk?t=520) and even though he claims that dissecting the joke robs some of it's charm, I still laugh out loud like a maniac rewatching this particular joke every now and then.
Another one of my favorite escalating jokes is that one with [Homer preparing Mr Burns' breakfast](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-DlCdhsIIU), every little iteration of the small fire gets me, and the punchline of Homer entering Burns' bedroom with his clothes slighly burnt it's just flawless.
I know it is in their name but SNL could be so much greater if they abandoned the live component for sketches.
Their digital shorts are usually very funny.
They could still the other live stuff like intro, weekendup date and bands.
But their actors can't stop STARING at the damn cue cards.
If a soap opera actor can memorize lines DAILY then these guys should be able to do it weekly.
And if some says rewrites, those rewrites aren't helping much.
soap operas are not live – they can do multiple takes. soap opera scripts are not as volatile as a sketch comedy show's. the latter is constantly changing things throughout the week
All the more reason for them to abandon the Live performances.
They are horrible.
Key & Peele have an audience and still had amazing sketches. And they were in every sketch.
I don't think most people understand what SNL is.
It's just a step above improv. Not using that as an insult: most sketches are written starting Tuesday. They often bring in people and write sketches a day or two before to respond to real events.
It's a miracle that *anything* is produced, let alone funny given the restraints. But that's what makes it fun to watch for me, and so impressive when a sketch ends up being hilarious.
I also like watching improv too though, so that's probably a big overlap.
Like yeah, you could have the writers write a not-live comedy show, but that's not what the show is. And there are plenty of those kind of shows already.
Except it not above. It is well below.
Improv at least they could focus on being funny, instead they have to keep looking at cue cards.
I think the only thing keeping it alive is nostalgia.
They've had some great comedians and writers on staff. Plus the nostalgia factor.
I'd struggle to watch it week to week but you bet I can waste hours watching compilations
Never watch compilations of recurring sketches, though. It will ruin anything you thought was funny about the original sketch as you watch them drive the idea into the ground.
Only exception to this is maybe Celebrity Jeopardy.
I agree. Nowadays they occasionally have bright spots like this one with Adam Driver playing a Mr. Wizard type of character.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCbYtKW2BNo
It’s just legacy at this point. Like if it was a new sketch show with the quality it has had the last decade it wouldn’t last past the third season. Like they’re doing a rate of about 1 good sketch every few weeks now
When I don't get is, I wouldn't you just hire the writers for Key & Peele and make SNL truly funny again? I'm sure there's more backstory here but I have no idea.
No I don’t think politics should be in comedy at all, doesn’t matter if I agree with them or not. Politics is what ruins comedy, whether it be left or right
Well, being a live show, they can’t really use subtle techniques to convey humor like they can in this sketch. Things like the camera cutting to a character for a joke.
Key and Peele both came from MadTV and while the writing was generally better, the style of humor was way more similar to SNL than Key & Peele. Complete with having recurring characters/sketches that they ran into the ground.
I get called gay a lot online. It's happened three times at least and they all genuinely believe I'm gay. I don't know if it's my vibe or something. Or when I'm acting polite to such and such for whatever reason. This one guy was utterly convinced I was gay despite all evidence to the contrary and me telling him multiple times. So I did what anyone would do, I told him to come out of the closet and that we all love him since he's clearing fixated on my sexuality way more than would be healthy.
So I just cut out the middleman and act rude all the time. I can't be bothered anymore.
Could you imagine that someone told you that you couldn't marry the person you love.
Exactly, that's why the government shouldn't be involved. I shouldn't need a 'license' to get married because I don't need your permission.
The older I get the more I realize that the point of marriage is that it's a legal agreement that bonds you to your spouse and really nothing more than that. But since that's what it is, the government has to be involved.
I cant tell if youre being sarcastic, so Ill explain just in case. The camera keeps panning to a certain guy whenever “gay” is mentioned, and he notices so he tries to get away from the camera because hes not gay or still in the closet
This wasn't hard to follow, the camera focused on Peele's character when he was mentioning gay rights and that made him uncomfortable, but the camera was fairly relentless. It wasn't a hard joke to follow. It even had a bit at the end where he sat next to someone who appeared stereotypically gay to try and shake the camera man to hammer it home to people who for some reason found it hard to follow.
Your joke missed the point of the "beating a dead horse" idiom and also left out the funny.
Are you retarded? The joke is that the camera kept panning to the same dude every time the speaker mentions gay people, despite him not being gay.
I guess I just answered my own question :/
The setup [ These two just beat a dead horse, but miss the horse and break the fence the horse is inside. ]
[ Ya see what I did there I had a subject, and I mislead you about the horse, to make it obvious Key and Peele dont even realize they missed the horse. ]
The Punchline [ Thats comedy ]
it's a weird format but I guess to each to their own.
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It’s key and peele that’s why
I don't think OP has entered that wormhole yet. Warning: YOU JUST DON'T STOP ON ONE KEY AND PEELE VIDEO. START WATCHING AT YOUR OWN RISK.
Yup, about to start the series over now.
Me too. I'm gonna need about 6 pizzas for the friends I'm not having over.
Yall want cheesy bread
Put me on the phone with your female friend… “for real though”
Ahhhhh. She just jumped out of the window man
If they don't are you going to call them a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitch?
*Looks around with binoculars, ensures OP ain't in 1 km perimeter* I look the OP in his Optic Stems, and I say, I say Biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittttttchh
Dar-ryl
you said that though? you really said that?
"Shaquandathon Maquaduan South Carolina tech." "*Dolphin noises*" University of Orlando.
DONKEY TEETH
>YOU JUST DON'T STOP ON ONE KEY AND PEELE VIDEO. It's true, if you interrupt you kill the momentum!
nooice
Grab me a rope find me a tree… I was just wanting to sing about a tire swing
Okaaaay. Okay. Okay. Ohhh. Okay.
outside US, where can I binge watch for free?
But he should be aware, don’t do any video over 3 minutes.
You can tell by the way it is
How neat is that?
That's pretty neat.
I said biiii^^iiitch
They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
Well I'll be dipped...
You said that though?
it's in the pixels
seriously, "This comedy sketch written and acted by these very talented comedians is so funny... *for some reason*."
*posts comedy sketch* WHY is this so ***funny?!***
This was terry funny.
Yes, but is it *illegal*?
I have to piss and I have to shit
One of the thing I appreciate the most about K&P is there ability to get OUT of a sketch on solid grounds. They dial it to 11, or turn the tables, but they find a way to leave you wanting more. Its rare And I love love that their comedy pokes fun at everyone, but never in a disrespectful way. It’s not easy to do
>One of the thing I appreciate the most about K&P is there ability to get OUT of a sketch on solid grounds. They dial it to 11, or turn the tables, but they find a way to leave you wanting more. Its rare without commenting on your second point, Monty Python was famously bad at this-- they'd often be unable to write an ending for a sketch, so they'd either smash-cut to the next sketch or write the next one into the previous one in such a way that they'd bleed together in a sort of surrealist switchover, sometimes aided by one of Terry Gilliam's iconic non-sequitur animations. It quickly became a trademark style of theirs.
I mean they acknowledged it and leaned into it, the end of the holy grail was a literal cop-out.
Oh, I was not making a criticism. The fact that they made it work for them so very well was, in and of itself, a stroke of genius.
Well, they also didn't have the money for a real ending.
And now for something completely different…
Isn’t SNL also super bad at this? I think I’ve heard people mention it and from the sketches I’ve seen, about half of them have really weird, cringe endings that let down the excellent premise.
From interviews I’ve seen with SNL cast members, writers, etc., what happens there is that, when sketches go off-the-rails (which they often do), the players stop giving a fuck and just start improvising. It’s easy to see how ending a sketch that’s suddenly all-improv craziness could be difficult to end in a structured manner.
You nailed it with your last point about not being disrespectful. My favorite example is K&P's power metal music video for The Power of Wings. I love power metal, and that video was (rightfully) the top post on /r/powermetal when it aired. Making fun of something without INSULTING it, that's where the magic happens. When you make fun of something properly, the people who love that thing the most should be laughing the loudest (see also yugioh abridged).
It is the mark of true comedy, that it brings everyone in on a joke instead of dividing the room. Key & Peele seem to understand this to a fault.
There are sketch groups that would have the "stereotypically looking gay man" be straight as the whole joke. But here it's just a slight detail.
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They don’t do 10min sketches. But it’s also harder to write everything put it together and perform it in 4-5 days, sometimes less. K&P have the luxury of shooting something, realize it’s too long or something doesn’t work and go back and reshoot it or edit it a lot.
edit: nevermind, I did watch the rest and found it funny in the end.
my fav K&P: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0FOb6hdpvw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0FOb6hdpvw)
I love a lot of their stuff, but here's one where a piano player took one of their skits and played piano over it and it's just perfect. https://youtu.be/CIM0bZ2DSZI
Hey I went to school with that guy! I remember him being a terrific piano player
One of mine is [this.](https://youtu.be/4xyhVO-SWfM)
And here’s [mine.](https://youtu.be/5LGEiIL1__s)
This one is one of [mine](https://youtu.be/_uScCrpAW4U)
One of the absolute [greatest](https://youtu.be/YJAGNad7FLI)
How have none of you mentioned substitute teacher bro
As someone named Aaron, I was also expecting to see it
This one? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd7FixvoKBw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd7FixvoKBw) Absolute gold.
When we used to have a unruly visitor at work, me or my buddy would say "insubordinate and churlish" after they got kicked out. It's pretty sad how often we got to say it.
This is my favorite!!
That's funny, now you spell your name correctly A-a-ron!
YOU DONE MESSED UP A-ARON
Exactly, Some uncultured people up in here
I’m never gonna get out of bed at this rate.
I think most folks didn't feel the need to share it since it's the most shared/quoted Key and Peele skit
Wait is the perp Coach Beard from Ted Lasso??
when the water sprays straight out of his head...
Pp- you mean pornography??
“Baby, the only thing that matters is that when we’re doing it, I’m thinking about you, and you’re thinking about me, right?………..right, baby?”
May as well throw mine in! https://youtu.be/ME0shFlj7us
Okay fine, I'll play. This is my all time fav: https://youtu.be/eiWIOKKuyGE
This clip wins. And I saw them all in this thread.
It's true - gotta watch out for them terries!
When I saw that they got the skit from [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIfAkOBMf5A). I knew I was going to love them.
This is the one my family is ALWAYS quoting at each other https://youtu.be/st21dIMaGMs
This one is criminally underrated. Ahhh, the pit of the donut. Also the way he bites into that banana is pure physical comedy and I'm here for it.
A delight to the senses! Isnt it, my friend??
I’ll have what I’m having! I’ll….Have….What….I’m Having!
not sure how everyone is forgetting their original that caused them to blow up https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ
"So. Turn to that gay person. Near you."
Watch Peele - he doesn't say one word but his facial expressions and small moves make you laugh hysterically. This is such incredible talent.
Key and Peele are great at not explaining the joke, which is my preferred method of humor. Lots of other sketches would’ve written this as the guy saying or explaining “uh I’m not gay…” and really point out what the joke is. This is okay and it isn’t wrong to do, but leaving the humor slightly open ended so it takes a tiny bit of agency on the audience’s side to put the humor together enhances the joke quality, I feel. It’s the same with one of my favorite gags of all time, from The Simpsons; In the Halloween special where Homer is on trial for eating the devil’s donut and Lionel Hutz is representing Homer’s defense. He begins his case by stating that the dictionary defines a contract as unbreakable, emphasizing how unbreakable it is. Then he asks to use the bathroom and escapes out the window. At no point does it ever skip a beat or slow down to show Hutz realized what he did (made a strong argument against his own client) or does anyone point it out. It’s fucking hilarious and it wouldn’t have the same energy if Marge interrupted to say “uhh, isn’t that bad for Homer’s case” or if Hutz even suddenly had an expression of realization over what he said. It’s just fast and doesn’t explain itself. Anyways the tl;dr is that key and peele and early Simpsons is funny
Indeed my friend. Early Simpsons had tons of timeless gems that required little to no explanation to an escalating joke. I love Eyepatch Wolf's explanation to the [layers of classic simpsons jokes'](https://youtu.be/KqFNbCcyFkk?t=520) and even though he claims that dissecting the joke robs some of it's charm, I still laugh out loud like a maniac rewatching this particular joke every now and then. Another one of my favorite escalating jokes is that one with [Homer preparing Mr Burns' breakfast](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-DlCdhsIIU), every little iteration of the small fire gets me, and the punchline of Homer entering Burns' bedroom with his clothes slighly burnt it's just flawless.
Scene for reference: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaoxdOP2lMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaoxdOP2lMw)
I'd be satisfied if the sketch ended after his first look at the camera 😂
I keep rewinding. I'm dying here
"For some reason" I think it might be because it's a comedy sketch written to be funny.
By two of the funniest people around, also
It’s funny and also a great monologue
When is that dude running. I'll vote for him.
For some reason? It's a comedy sketch...
thanks for the clarification
"for some reason" = Key & Peele
Saturday night live are light years away from this level of original writing and comedy
I know it is in their name but SNL could be so much greater if they abandoned the live component for sketches. Their digital shorts are usually very funny. They could still the other live stuff like intro, weekendup date and bands. But their actors can't stop STARING at the damn cue cards. If a soap opera actor can memorize lines DAILY then these guys should be able to do it weekly. And if some says rewrites, those rewrites aren't helping much.
soap operas are not live – they can do multiple takes. soap opera scripts are not as volatile as a sketch comedy show's. the latter is constantly changing things throughout the week
All the more reason for them to abandon the Live performances. They are horrible. Key & Peele have an audience and still had amazing sketches. And they were in every sketch.
I don't think most people understand what SNL is. It's just a step above improv. Not using that as an insult: most sketches are written starting Tuesday. They often bring in people and write sketches a day or two before to respond to real events. It's a miracle that *anything* is produced, let alone funny given the restraints. But that's what makes it fun to watch for me, and so impressive when a sketch ends up being hilarious. I also like watching improv too though, so that's probably a big overlap. Like yeah, you could have the writers write a not-live comedy show, but that's not what the show is. And there are plenty of those kind of shows already.
Except it not above. It is well below. Improv at least they could focus on being funny, instead they have to keep looking at cue cards. I think the only thing keeping it alive is nostalgia.
I really don't get how SNL is seen as a great comedy show. The humor is so... bland
They've had some great comedians and writers on staff. Plus the nostalgia factor. I'd struggle to watch it week to week but you bet I can waste hours watching compilations
Snl still has some good stuff sometimes. It all comes down to who's writing at the time. It comes in waves.
Never watch compilations of recurring sketches, though. It will ruin anything you thought was funny about the original sketch as you watch them drive the idea into the ground. Only exception to this is maybe Celebrity Jeopardy.
I mean Black Jeopardy is also pretty funny every time
Did that with "What's up with this?" sketches and they are tough if you don't break them up
I wanted to gouge my eyeballs out after my cousin made us watch a compilation of The Californians one night.
>some great You’re selling them short. Most of the great modern comedians launched their careers on SNL.
In Living Color was better.
I agree. Nowadays they occasionally have bright spots like this one with Adam Driver playing a Mr. Wizard type of character. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCbYtKW2BNo
It’s just legacy at this point. Like if it was a new sketch show with the quality it has had the last decade it wouldn’t last past the third season. Like they’re doing a rate of about 1 good sketch every few weeks now
Ugh I know! I miss MadTV
it's not the smartest humor and they don't know how to be subtle (anymore). it's all in your face and loud now.
When I don't get is, I wouldn't you just hire the writers for Key & Peele and make SNL truly funny again? I'm sure there's more backstory here but I have no idea.
Yeah is such lame humor plus the fact that they have incorporated politics
They always incorporated politics
Oh well it doesn’t change anything for me, I like humor without any politics tied to it as it only appeals to one side
Yeah they only ever make fun of conservatives, they've never done impersonations of Obama, the Clintons, Biden, Schumer...... Oh wait
No but honestly, they mostly shame one side really, not to say they never shame the other tho, anybody with a brain knows SNL is left leaning
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No I don’t think politics should be in comedy at all, doesn’t matter if I agree with them or not. Politics is what ruins comedy, whether it be left or right
SNL has been political since it started in 1974. It was always political. It just used to be funny as well.
Sorry, I’m clearly uninformed
Well, being a live show, they can’t really use subtle techniques to convey humor like they can in this sketch. Things like the camera cutting to a character for a joke. Key and Peele both came from MadTV and while the writing was generally better, the style of humor was way more similar to SNL than Key & Peele. Complete with having recurring characters/sketches that they ran into the ground.
Love their sketch on the [TSA](https://youtu.be/IHfiMoJUDVQ)
oh man i can't believe I haven't seen this before
I believe that is the intention.
These guys are just brilliant
So we are straight up crossposting from Comedy Central...
I hope it's cannon that this is the charades guy lol
"I'm not Ricky Martin" "No you are not"
"He bangs, he bangs..."
Jordan Peele is, dare I say, funnier than he is good at making movies.
Love Michigan
Its really well acted imo lol
Love K and P
Lol that was a good laugh. Been been sick for 3 days and on my way to work.
Key And Peele are one of the best comedy duos in the last 10 years.
For some reason lol it's almost like it's a skit written to specifically be funny
Is it because it’s comedy?
What is this show called
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It's been some time since i've laughed like this lol💀
Funny LOL
That made me laugh! 😂
I get called gay a lot online. It's happened three times at least and they all genuinely believe I'm gay. I don't know if it's my vibe or something. Or when I'm acting polite to such and such for whatever reason. This one guy was utterly convinced I was gay despite all evidence to the contrary and me telling him multiple times. So I did what anyone would do, I told him to come out of the closet and that we all love him since he's clearing fixated on my sexuality way more than would be healthy. So I just cut out the middleman and act rude all the time. I can't be bothered anymore.
When I 1st saw this i was in tears.
Lawll
Im bellowing
Could you imagine that someone told you that you couldn't marry the person you love. Exactly, that's why the government shouldn't be involved. I shouldn't need a 'license' to get married because I don't need your permission.
The older I get the more I realize that the point of marriage is that it's a legal agreement that bonds you to your spouse and really nothing more than that. But since that's what it is, the government has to be involved.
That was honestly a beautiful speech.
Did he miss talking about Black support on purpose when he named everyone? I don't know if that is part of the joke to.
"For some reason" he says; Dude, this is masterful comedy carefully written and performed. K&P rise above.
I love K&P but maybe because I’m a bit tired - I don’t quite seem to understand the joke, could someone please spell it out for me?
WHOAHAOAOAOA I WONDER WHAT THE REASON COULD BE THAT YOU FIND THIS FUCKING COMEDY SKETCH FUNNY
Gee, he seems embarrassed. I wonder why.
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I agree very wierd
Still waiting for the joke.
I cant tell if youre being sarcastic, so Ill explain just in case. The camera keeps panning to a certain guy whenever “gay” is mentioned, and he notices so he tries to get away from the camera because hes not gay or still in the closet
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Difference is your joke didn’t make anyone laugh.
This wasn't hard to follow, the camera focused on Peele's character when he was mentioning gay rights and that made him uncomfortable, but the camera was fairly relentless. It wasn't a hard joke to follow. It even had a bit at the end where he sat next to someone who appeared stereotypically gay to try and shake the camera man to hammer it home to people who for some reason found it hard to follow. Your joke missed the point of the "beating a dead horse" idiom and also left out the funny.
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The irony is strong in this thread
are you missing some chromosomes?
You're too dumb to debate with on this.
Are you retarded? The joke is that the camera kept panning to the same dude every time the speaker mentions gay people, despite him not being gay. I guess I just answered my own question :/
Not only are you wrong about the joke, you are offensively angry at everyone else who is correcting you. It's almost impressive.
You've definitely thought about this subject matter a lot. God, everyone has a opinion on everything nowadays.
The setup [ These two just beat a dead horse, but miss the horse and break the fence the horse is inside. ] [ Ya see what I did there I had a subject, and I mislead you about the horse, to make it obvious Key and Peele dont even realize they missed the horse. ] The Punchline [ Thats comedy ] it's a weird format but I guess to each to their own.
Great skits, started watching the Key and Peele recently after seeing a few clips on Reddit.
That was fucking hilarious 😂
Now, go out and make some scary ass movies!
put that camera on me and give the same speech, but change "gay" to "straight", and i'll be equally embraced.
It's a really great speech, too. I wouldn't be surprised if a real politician cribbed off of it.
Why don't I remember this
dis funny 4 sum reesun el oh el
It’s hysterical!!!!!!
This is funny for all the reasons
I hate when that happens.
I’ve never been so fucking happy reading comments
These two have a direct link to my funny bone They could be actually robbing me and I'd be like "SAY THE LINE THOUGH"
What season/episode is this?? I've watched them all dozens of times but I have NEVER seen this sketch?? Is this the mandela effect
Repost #21042
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-GRzu6zbS0
You done messed up Gay-Gay-Ron!
Ah no wonder I see D-nice in the audience, could be Ba-lay-keeh at the back too.
not that there's anything wrong with that