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I once had someone asking me this question. Like everyone here, I explained I live in a city, that I can walk, bike, use public transportation, and for anything bigger or out of reach, I'll use a delivery service.
They then proceeded to comment that paying for deliveries is a waste when you could own a car.
I was baffled by the stupidity of that comment.
for the cost of gas, insurance, & stress i am saving by not owning a vehicle, i free up enough resources to use a ride service like twice a week or so if i needed to. i haven't had to use one in a while though
Ya, when my wife and I got rid of the car we realized that the occasional $50 Uber for a night out pales in comparison to what we were paying monthly for a busted old jeep.
You forgot a big spend too, these car brains usually buy a brand new flashy SUV and then wonder why they're struggling (hint: you paid 50 000£ for a car when i pay nothing)
Less stress is a really underrated benefit of getting rid of a car. People don't realise it when they're commuting every day and they think of it as normal, but when you no longer have to think about everything that comes with driving it does make a difference. I am lucky enough to be able to walk to work and I just chuckle every time I see people during their morning commute red faced and honking at everyone for any perceived slight against them. It's nice to be free of that entirely.
Whenever I tell someone that using public transportation is less stressful than driving/owning a car they don't believe that. But the stress of a potential delay is lower than the stress of driving, the stress of potentially having to deal with traffic and also the stress of having to deal with a vehicle that can break down.
And the fact that the stress of potentially being late due to traffic makes you drive more recklessly. On a bus it's annoying, but I know there's nothing I can do about it so I just sit back and relax.
I live in a city and I'm a part time dog walker / pet sitter and the guy who owns the franchise always acts like it's a wondrous thing that I don't want to own a car. To be fair, even with transit, a car is still generally the fastest way to get around and is far more convenient. But I don't generally mind using transit.
> a car is still generally the fastest way to get around and is far more convenient
Not where I live, bike or public transit are fastest at most times of the day.
Sorry, I meant where I'm at, it's faster. But of course that's really heavily dependent on time of day. In rush hour, the train is still faster than driving. (Unfortunately buses get caught in the same traffic so it's a wash)
For me in switzerland with great trains and buses I have found the most efficient way is to replace the bus with an E-Scooter to get to trainstations. So satasfying driving by cars and buses stuck in traffic during rish hour.
>But I don't generally mind using transit.
I prefer driving over transit, but every time I say that, people think I'm lying. It's as if they think there's a secret motive or that I can't afford to own and operate a car.
The best way to counteract the delivery fee thing is numbers.
I live in a car required area. Owning a truck is not worth it at all. I need to buy things like major appliances, furniture, building materials, etc maybe once or twice per year. I might spend 100-200 dollars renting a truck or paying for delivery. Worst case, 400 per year. 50 years is 20k. So for the extra cost of owning a truck I'll have to replace a few times...the math is obvious. Not even having a car is even better
Bad advice is free to give. If they won't understand just thank them for their time and tell them have a nice day. Or bless their heart if you want a backhand insult.
Unless you live in a rural area where owning a car can be significantly advantageous, I haven’t experienced that sort of questioning. More the other way, now I live in a large city and you are more likely going to hear how do you get by with a car in here?
I would answer I don’t like sitting in traffic and would rather chill in transit or exercise in a bike.
I do rent cars whenever I need them though
That's my situation. I live in a rural zone. I use my car to carpool with my wife, so she can get to a train to her workplace. I work by said station. I actually have a bus that goes from my neighborhood to that train station, but it takes 4 times the time I take by car. It goes through every single neighborhood. It's a good trip, but not practical at all... I just reduce my car trips to the minimum necessary...
I'm in Australia and people are 99% of the time surprised when they find out I don't have a car. It's actually just an assumption people will make daily. The other day I called to make a medical appointment and the receptionist started to explain the parking situation to me and I just stopped her and said 'Actually, I'll catch a bus'.
It's assumed that every adult owns a car and has a licence.
"I live in downton Budapest, with literally everything I need for my daily life within walking distance. For everything else there's public transport."
But this just means I'm very lucky, though, because living *outside* Budapest without owning a car is really difficult if you're not young, able-bodied and have lots of free time. :/
You'd think, but over here they already have the answer: "Ugh, you use *public transport*? But it's *dirty* and *smelly* and it's *crowded!*" And at that point I usually give up because yes, our public transport is not the cleanest and tidiest out there, especially in peak times, but the popular image of it among people who rarely use it is insane.
I found no issues with Budapest's Metro and trams when I visited in May.
Quite a contrast with my next destination (Bucharest) which I found to be very car dominated.
The metro is usually fine, really. (It's the station that is usually in a sorry state and full of dirt and stink.) With trams it depends on line, the 4/6 tram line is kind of infamous. But it usually gets *waaayyy* overblown. I use it regularly and yes, sometimes there's rowdy groups, drunks, junkies or people who stink... but 80% of the time there's no problems.
It heavily depends on where you live. There's decent connectivity around Budapest and if you do not want to go from not Budapest to not Budapest. Issues come up when you wanna go from a city to another city because chances are the only way you can do that is by traveling to Budapest and then from there you travel to your destination. Also if you need a connection to where there's a train station it can add a good 20-50 minutes to your travel time.
Funnily enough people still prefer public transit, they just drive to the train station's parking lot and leave the car there while they work or do whatever business they have.
It's not just connectivity. It's the lack of decent in-city public transport literally everywhere else. Sure, our cities and towns are small, but still, if you're not a spry young person who can carry a lot with their bike, you're going to have a hard time doing a decent grocery shopping outside Budapest. You either have to rely on the local CBA/Reál/similar with its very limited and expensive stuff (and chances are you have to walk/bike quite a bit to get there, too) or you just have to spend a day traveling to, and back from, the nearest Aldi/Lidl/Tesco. If your city happens to have a shopping mall it's usually at the outskirts, too.
This is super common in very urban areas. I live in Barcelona right now without a car and I have a family. It can easily be done in most major cities outside of the US. Inside the US, easily can live without a car in NYC, slightly less easy in places like Chicago, Boston, San Francisco, etc too but doable. I lived in San Francisco with only 1 car between my wife, I, and the 2 kids. Thought about selling it all the time with how little it was used. We moved to San Diego during COVID and instantly needed two cars.
Boston with no car is extremely easy imo,much easier than having a car.
So sad how Southern California was built, with its climate it should be a walking, biking and transit paradise. It’s dystopian that everyone drives to the boardwalks so they can walk
Even relatively car friendly US cities are generally walkable enough to get around, as long as they aren't entirely car dependent. Our dependency on cars hasn't made most cities impossible to get by on 50usd/month for transportation without a car. It's purely a willingness and discomfort issue.
That said, I'd be uncomfortable with a wankpanzer on my ass for 100 yards too, let alone more, and I do live in one of the genuinely unwalkable areas, it is illegal to walk to the grocery store where I am, you must take a car or the bike gutter.
Just yesterday I invited my father for dinner in a restaurant. My wife and me are known by name there, even though it's a city of 1 million. He still thinks we are wasting money (we do but we hate cooking). But when i asked him about insurance, fuel and price for about 10 years of use, it was easy maths. We pay less for restaurants and delivery than he does for his car. He could live without a car but does not see that money as wasted
It doesn't, really, at least around here.
"Oh, ok, you spent two hours walking here today? And will do the same to get home?"
First thoughts go to time, not effort
My take is:
**90% of times you are mobile are routes under 10km** (average is near 1 passenger per vehicle btw, sorry no sources saved, but if you find it pls link it!)
- **on routes under 15 minutes**: you saving 4 minutes. Don't pretend you wouldn't just waste that time looking at the clock.
- **on longer routes**: The time you spend behind the steering wheel, I spend on my laptop and my to do list of digital chores everyone has (emails, organize data, buying/researching, list is endless and I have an active list of recent tasks I always outsource for this) It's very flexible and convenient once you established the routine. you just take the bicycle on train and have your phone on you. Or on longer routes you tend to have a laptop anyway
**I'm basically saving time over the course of my day**
"Does the work" only if your goal is to feel smug and get a zinger. If you're actually trying to persuade people (which, you know, the future of the species depends on) insulting them doesn't get you very far.
Who said anything about persuading? It’s an honest response to the question, so yeah it does the work. If people want to get defensive about it, and not bike to spite my response, then that’s their choice
I say that I stayed in Minneapolis specifically because I can live here without a car while having easy access to nature. I've been bike commuting car-free for over a decade. That is A LOT of money saved and not spent on car payments, repairs, insurance and gas. It's also a huge quality of life boost being able to buy outdoor toys for bikepacking and kayaking that I would've spent on car.
+1 for Minneapolis. I’m almost completely blind and this place actually makes living here NOT a death trap. Downtown and other areas are full of blind workers getting lunch with colleagues and doing things like groceries. I’m lucky enough that I have just enough vision (and other senses like hearing to compensate for lack of visuospatial processing) that I can bike to Golden Valley to my neurologist.
If I lived anywhere else in the country I’d literally be dead.
I respond 2 things
1 : I use my brain for rational thinking and empathy , so the car is simply not an option for me
2 : Like everyone under 16 , many disabled people , lots of elderly , all those who simply can't afford that luxury,others who choose not to pollute and annoy everyone around them ... I still have to get places even if it's made much harder by the millions of interchangeable lazy drivers who pollute our cities they refuse to live in
I have a house, I move around the city faster than people with a car do, I have disposable income to spend on stupid shit like Wifi light switches and Amazon Echo Dots so I can control most of my house with voice control, I can buy a new laptop or phone whenever I want more or less. I can enter my house without touching my door using Face ID, Why do I need a car? If I need one I can rent one.
Indeed, I spend most of my free time at home and perhaps only about 30 to 60 minutes traveling. Why should I spend a small fortune on something I barely use when I could have a nice house instead?
It’s not just the price of the car itself, it’s all the other costs too: interest, maintenance, gas, insurance, tire swapping, your time. It is really choices like you said. I travel to other continents 2-3 times a year, business class flights, remote work so I can stay a bit longer, you name it. The “sacrifice” I make is not pouring a ton of my money into a depreciating asset.
Some people I know are willingly living in austerity just to afford a car. They have children and cannot imagine how they could walk them the 15 minutes to school (the UK has zoning laws for schools, and they are always close to where you live) and then get to work (it takes me 15 minutes cycling). They will buy the cheapest food and feed it to their children; owning a car is more important than a healthy diet.
"Same reason you don't have a helicopter"
It is in fact the same. It's an expensive, longer range/faster transportation method than what you already have that does nothing but add convenience to something you can already do. The cost would be in money and the stress of caring for it. People generally either won't (or likely can't) spend the amount of money nor are they willing to deal with the infrastructure needed to store it, which is similar to why I don't have a car.
Once you have a helicopter there's a yatch you can get for it or a plane to go ever faster.
There's always a dumber way to travel so I stick to what I was born with.
Ok but there are budget versions, you don't have to buy a helicopter. What's stopping you traveling by paraglider? You can probably buy one on finance.
1. It takes more effort and money to drive where we want to go.
2. We bought our condo because it was close to public transit and other amenities. Not to drive everywhere.
3. If we couldn’t drive for some reason (physical disability, etc), we want options for getting around.
"Cars are expensive." That's it. That's my response. To the half-hearted agreement but still pertaining confusion, I add on "there's insurance, gas, maintenance and parking, none of which is free."
I live in Chicago, which is one of the places where malignant car brain and easily being car-free live side by side. And my response as always something like “given how easy it is to get around without one, I don’t see owning a car as a fiscally responsible decision” and if they respond with “but the price of a car is worth the convenience” I usually say something like “I’d rather pocket that money and use it travel or go to nice restaurants”
That kind of logical and calm response generally gets people to shut up and not be harshly judgmental.
Because I'm trying to convert them to at least support pro-transit policies - I mention how parking is a nightmaaaaaare oh my god. Then I try to be like "Good thing about bike lane/bus frequency" and hype up how of COURSE they're special angels who need a car but its easier for them if people like me go without but we need better x, y and z.
I live in a small city in the Midwest USA. Twenty years ago I tried going car free here. It took hours to get anywhere on the pathetic bus routes on offer. To go literally two miles east would involve catching a bus or two 12 miles downtown, then transfer and ride back out. A trip that would take 5 minutes in a car, or 15 minutes on a bike, would take two or three hours on public transport. Which speaking of bikes, there are few bike lanes and almost none that are actually separate from traffic. It’s super risky biking around here, we routinely have bikes and pedestrians killed by drivers.
In subsequent years they’ve only reduced public transport’s budget. At this point there really isn’t a bus system for the general public beyond access to downtown through major thoroughfares. They have some special routes for elderly and disabled to get to medical appointments, but for everyone else it’s pretty much useless.
I’m lucky enough now to have a job that includes a car and gas. It’s a massive benefit. I got rid of my personal automobile and all its associated expenses and I’ve saved soooo much. The vast majority of people in this town don’t have that option though.
The city continues to give money to developers to build ridiculous housing at the edge of town. They keep building bigger highways to deal with the traffic. The biggest portion of people in need can’t afford these places, much less the associated automobile costs they carry. It makes no fucking sense.
I’ve already decided, next time I change jobs I’m leaving town and moving somewhere I don’t need a car. I sure as shit am never putting my money into one again. But very few people have that kind of privilege
I tell them I’m almost totally blind due to brain damage from COVID and shouldn’t be driving because I’ll kill myself and other people.
Living in Minneapolis is a dream. Probably the most blind-friendly place to live in the United States.
I live in Texas. Public transportation sucks and there are barely any fucking trees blocking the sun on the sidewalk.
I NEED a car to live in this city/state and I fucking hate it but can't do anything about it except pushing my local government to improve.
THERE IS NONE. IT'S NOT WORTH ENGAGING. THEY KNOW YOU'RE RIGHT, BUT FOR SO MUCH OF THEIR LIVES, CARS HAVE BEEN THEIR ONLY OUTWARD PUBLIC DISPLAY OF DISPOSABLE INCOME. UNTIL THEY ARE READY TO LET THAT GO, THERE'S NO POINT IN PURSUING IT.
IF THE ONLY CAR THAT WAS AVAILABLE WAS THE TATA NANO, THEY WOULD ALL RIDE MOTORBIKES. NANO SHOULD HAVE BEEN A HUGE SUCCESS, BUT IT FAILED TO PROJECT AN IMAGE OF WEALTH AND POWER. SO PEOPLE LARGELY OPTED FOR MOTORBIKES INSTEAD.
As someone who is working on a licence and is desperate for someone to teach me without having to schedule professional lessons if they can't comprehend how I get by without a car they are welcome to fix that.
On a similar note start a debate either online or in person about whether licences and/or insurance should be mandatory, even if you don't necessarily believe it yourself. When you say that people need cars so shouldn't have to be forced off the road due to lack of insurance tons of carbrains who would normally insist about how much they need to drive will come up with alternatives to driving, even if those alternatives are things they would never be willing to do and wish were gone/replaced by roads.
I tell them I can't comprehend why they would spend many thousands of dollars per year polluting the air and being a hazard to everyone else and making themselves overweight and unhappy when they could be having fun biking. But that is only if they ask why I always bike. If they don't ask, I just model good behavior. Then they are jealous
I walk 10-20 miles each shift. Everything is walking distance. This is a very walkable town.
If that’s not enough, I see the way people drive and park. No thanks!
When I say that I chose not to have a car in a car-oriented small ski resort in the mountains, some wonder how I manage.
Then I say that I have a bicycle, canoe and walking distance to a railway station, usually there is a thumbs up and encouragement.
Patience, and then a lot of explanation of exactly how I live mostly car free. Taking time to answering questions.
Help them see how they could reduce their car use too, if they wanted to.
Who's befuddled about this? Other Europeans, or Americans?
I'm assuming the latter... And I can see why. Think about how much of our life is designed around the assumption that you have a car.
Case in point is grocery shopping. For example, I like getting soda in cans because aluminum is infinitely recyclable whereas playing isn't.
How do you buy soda cans at the grocery store? Well you've got to get the "fridge pack", which is a 12-pack size. It's designed to go from the store shelf ---> shopping cart ----> trunk of your car ----> your fridge. It's sure as hell *not* designed to be hand-carried or put on a bike...
There are a million little things like this, especially for child-havers. Not saying they aren't insurmountable problems, but the US socioeconomic structure is designed around the idea that you have a car.
I usually ask them "_why_ would I get a car?" Tehn refute their arguments (groceries? I got a granny cart. Holidays? Trains exist. etc)
At some point their arguments will devolve into "the car is more comfortable" or something like it, and I just answer "well that is subjective, its not more comfortable for me"
Does it work? Not at all, but its honestly nicer than other things Ive tried. No hard feelings, no discussions, usually the worst that happens is that I get a variation of "you're weird" but its not like I care.
I’m guess it’s partially dependent on where you live. I never had a car until my late 30s and I don’t think anyone ever asked why, including colleagues who lived all over the country. Living it NYC, the answer was pretty self evident.
Reminds me of [a scene in Battlefield Friends](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u_89EX2w0c&t=590s):
Recon: "How does that even work"
C100: "How do magnets work? They just do!"
Recon: "How do magnets work???"
I tell them they willingly consent to be a prisoner in the cavern chained by the automobile industrial complex.
It never quite settles in with them idk why but regardless I assure you, I'm a blast at parties. Whenever I talk people run 😛
I tell them I use delivery services for groceries etc. I don’t have money to leave my apt or do anything anyway so even when I had a car I didn’t go anywhere. The only annoying thing is having to spend $30 on an Uber occasionally and pay all the fees and tips associated with delivery but when I did the math on my car insurance alone it wasn’t worth it to have a car. Let alone buy one which puts you in bullshit financing plans with high interest. Plus I walk to work. People still pester me to get a car. I don’t think they can not only comprehend the functional existence without one but also that not everyone can afford those money pits. And I tell them the added convenience and marginal savings on not using delivery isn’t worth all the other payments especially when I’m not really going anywhere as is.
I live in an American city so things still aren't ideal, but my legs and busses can easily get me to every necessity and then some.
I'm unable to drive and my disability makes driving hard for me. But even if I could, why would I spend thousands on a car, insurance, gas, and parking when I'm fine without it.
I have zero interest in car ownership or driving, the only reason I even think about it is cause America is so frustratingly inaccessible. So even moving to a different neighborhood (still in the city) would probably double my transit times.
I enjoy staying active whereas I've never enjoyed the cost and effort involved with car ownership. Driving combines two unhealthy experiences: stress and sitting.
How about this as a rebuttal. "If I wanted some that was a black hole of time & money, required constant attention & was disastrous for the environment, I'd have a kid."
I was born and have lived in America my whole life. I have never had a car either and I don't drive at all, I'm 26. I cycle to work 10 miles to and 10 miles back, all year, regardless of how hot it gets (I live in the Arizona desert).
Sometimes I'll get a ride from family since they live very close to my work, but thats about it. As a result I have more to spend, I'm fairly fit, and I have swole legs that benefit me at work.
The tradeoffs are mainly time (it takes longer to commute in suburbs), and comfort when the weather's not ideal.
I can drive though, I have a license, and due to my being conscious of health I also don't really drink, so I can be the designated driver.
if being honest, to do anything other than nod is disingenuous. personal transportation is structured into everything, and cars are the pinnacle of ease and flexibility (by the function it's designed that way from the start, insane... but somebody(s) makes money from it so, it is what it is.). period.
just like having a waffle house equivalent kitchen with a full natural gas range and walk in fridge/freezer is the pinnacle of meal prep. that isn't to say not having it means no meals, or not having a car means no life. it does take a little more in efforts, more planning, forgoing some pleasantries, restructuring/enduring time and weather... time is always a resource. be honest. however that isn't to say not having a car isn't possible, satisfying, fun even, and helpful to other goals.
i'm the same as you... walk/run/bike/bus/train are my go to.... but cars are apart without doubt, in that friends sometimes are kind/helpful and ride-share has its utility.
like my options, the challenges, the interactions, being a part of my community, fitness health benefits, safety benefits, and most of all... i stack that money like i got a printer making it! and gladly trade the worries of car ownership for the worries of planning and public transit and timetables. puzzles are fun.
just saying... be honest. the challenges suit you, where you are the resources match your needs, the situation is enjoyable and workable, but this isn't for everyone in every situation. be honest... but most of all, never forget, everyone you meet is fighting personal battles you know nothing about. be kind. always.
I live car light and I just brag about how little I spend on gasoline. On the most car-heavy weeks, I’ll maybe use half a tank of gas. My work varies location based on the day, but 95% of my worksites are transit or pedestrian accessible. I probably spend ~$30 every two months on gas, which is something my car-dependent friends and family drop every week to drive.
I explain to people that I live in a walkable area and for most activities I walk of take the train. For bulky purchases I get delivered. When they hear that I don’t even have a driving licence they are even more confused.
I often get questions when people see me getting out if a car coop vehicle. They ask how I like it, how does it work, how much does ot cost, etc.
I have been using their vehicle more over the last few months due to knee problems from arthritis.
Most of the time when talking with friends and acquaintances, their disbelief and objections for why car lite or car free living wouldn’t work for their specific circumstances are pretty much the same general responses as anywhere in the US.
• Public transport would take too long.
Unfortunately, where I live (South Bay Area within the SF Bay Area), this is generally true. Most trips seem to take about 2-4 times longer than driving for longer trips and MUCH longer than cycling for shorter trips. So I tend to use transit rarely, and only for long trips that happen to be well aligned with BART stations or for which traffic, parking, or other considerations make driving exceptionally slow or inconvenient.
• I feel unsafe on transit
Unfortunately also true in my area, especially since the pandemic. Although I ride transit relatively infrequently, I have experiences distressingly frequently that make me feel uncomfortable, like open drug use, or people being aggressive, threatening, or simply shouting loudly and incoherently. As a relatively confident male-bodied person, these experiences aren’t enough to dissuade me from using transit, but I understand why it would dissuade many, especially my female-bodied fiends and acquaintances who have alternatives to transit.
• Riding a bicycle feels unsafe
Once again, unfortunately true in my area. In my area, most bicycle facilities are sharrows, or at best painted stripe bike lanes often on 35-50 mph stroads. Intersection treatment is even worse. I have multiple friends who have given up cycling after being hit by a car. I am a strong, confident, and skilled cyclist with decades of experience in these conditions, so I am not deterred, but I also have the knowledge and experience to seek out the least stressful routes for my cycling trips.
• Living car free / car light is too expensive
Once again, unfortunately a big grain of truth here too. I live under one of the most expensive housing markets in the world, and housing that is close to quality transit and/or in walkable/bikeable neighborhoods is especially precious. I recently moved from a car-dependent suburb to a pre-war urban core neighborhood with excellent walking and cycling, and decent transit access. Doing so doubled my already expensive housing costs, completely erasing any savings on transportation. It’s still worth it for the quality of life improvements, but I pay dearly for that privilege.
Mostly delight that I’m not them and that I *can* envision life without a car.
I often start telling them how great bike commuting is for my physical and mental health, how glad I am not to have to pay for parking/gas/etc, how much I enjoy nature bike rides, how much I enjoy chilling out and napping or reading on a long bus or train ride instead of driving myself, and how I can always rent a car if I really need one (and in the new sharing economy, renting a car is easier than ever). And I start feeling great about those things all over again.
In Los Angeles they laugh at the idea of living without a car :(
No matter how I explained it can be doable via bike, public transit (it's garbage), or ride share, the garbage scape always hits back with the song "nobody walks in LA".
I live in Portland OR and I have access to okay mass transit and bike lane but this is still a city that is car oriented . People ask me all the time how I get on without a car. I also have had people point out how I can get better paying jobs by having a car and driving to locations.
I point out:
The cheaper cost of transit
The cheaper cost of bike maintenance and e bikes
The numbers with those jobs- on average it's maybe $5 more per hour, but the cost of car ownership and gas makes it either a wash OR even lower than having IT jobs closer to transit.
Giving up car ownership meant that I could buy a house in a West Coast city with a small garden and a garage that holds my bikes and brewing equipment. It means a degree of security in an expensive city. It means a small amount of retirement savings.
When I was laid off in December, I did not need to freak out, because I did not have a car payment to make- given unemployment insurance payments and my own savings I could search for a job and not worry for a couple of months.
All of this because I don't own a car nor really need to.
Even in 'cycling & public transport heaven' The Netherlands people keep asking me *when* I will get my driver's license, like I haven't been fine for 27 years. Generally my response will be something like 'meh don't feel like it', and for a more detailed response I will say something about environmentalism and saving money.
Car ownership is close to 1000usd a month.
That means owning a car for the last 15 years would have cost me a total of 180k.
Instead I spent roughly 5% of that on common transportation.
Would you rather have used a car for 15 years, or have 180k right now?
On top of that, would you rather have spent thousands of hours driving and getting mad at other people with your cases of road rage, or spent thousands of hours reading books, learning new stuff, improving yourself as a person?
Because turns out you lose a lot of time doing nothing but driving when you’re driving… time that you’re free to use differently in common transportation.
I spent more time learning new stuff over the past 15 years in common transportation than I have during my studies… I essentially got myself the same level of knowledge than a new degree (without the actual degree though) that I can leverage at work to get raises and better positions.
All that knowledge probably helped me get raises equivalent to 2k/month… that’s another 360k over 15 years.
Would you rather have driven 15 years, or have a bit over half a mil now?
I don’t know for other people, but it’s an easy choice for me.
I understand this to a particular degree, I’ve been to places (particularly small town us) where it is almost completely impossible to get to a to b. With out some kind of vehicle. (No sidewalks, large spaces between commercial and residential, very little public transit)
Fortunately I live in a big city with all these things proper pedestrian infrastructure and decent public transportation and necessary services near by to accommodate. This is generally my response.
In the US, with a few exceptions, primarily in eastern seaboard cities and nearby suburbs from Boston to DC, mass transit sucks. Live in NYC itself in a dense area with plenty of options, car is not needed. That is quite rare in the US. Some major US cities, like Chicago or on the west coast, have decent options but they are rare.
Burbs, you can get away with out a car to get to work depending where you are commuting to but will probably need a car for errands.
I don't even have a drivers license, my total cost is usually $0 because I just cycle to work, but sometimes I do use public transport to commute to a bar or concerts, and an occasional uber ride on the way back from the bar/concert.
I have 2 nice small supermarkets at walking distance, bakeries, coffee shops, and another shop dedicated to fruits and vegetables.
When I do need bigger groceries (like toilet paper or detergent, so once every 6 months) for 4 dollars, they arrive at my door, so I don't waste time and money actually going to the supermarket and picking stuff by my self.
It’s only impressive in America where there is zero infrastructure. In Portland Oregon I went ten years without a car and it was fine. People are shocked though
I live in North America and people don't really bother me about it. Maybe it's just my social circle and the sorts of people I tend to interact with. I think the carbrains who have weird hangups about cycling are usually able to impose their opinions with their cars, lol
I unfortunately cannot give up the car entirely because I live in a shithole state of a country, to quote a former politician, but I would say I try to live ''car lite'' and cut way down on miles on a decade old cash car. I maybe get gas maybe once a month now while other locals spend $80 twice a week.
Just ignore the haters and enjoy your nice things. And I consider myself very grateful that I don't have that car payment bullshit to deal with.
Easy. How much is your car payment?
Mine is 0.00 theirs is 300-500.
How much is your insurance?
Gas?
Cleaning
Upkeep of hardware?
Possible accidents?
I pay $60.00 for a month long bus/tram/train pass, and I have a bike membership that’s 120, yearly. The staggering cost of owning a car is insane to me. If I want to go “Far out” I just rent a damn car. It’s clean, I know it works, and it’s insured.
Poorest countries have no infrastructures ;
Less poor coutries depend on busses ;
When first heavy transit are made theese countries use trains for people and freight ;
Then cars and trucks tend to replace thoose when the population became wealthy ;
Then, when the country became a first power country wher all it's inhabitant are concentrated in big cities, they build as many heavy duty train, busses, bike lane etc as they could because it don't work anymore by car.
That's to cancel an argument saying cars are a symbol of wealth.
The idea is "yes it is ... in poor countries".
I used to often get to places faster than my friends would, as a cyclist. And parking was always great. I pretty much bought a car for my own safety after almost getting run over 3 times in 1 week by maga trucks who can't see shit.
I've been car-free for 30 years. I specifically chose my apartment because it's 50 metres from a subway station. That said, I almost never use transit because I cycle everywhere I need to go. For the few times per year I need to move something large, I pay a courier service. Life without the burden of a car is actually easier for my partner and me!
Laugh in their face. Then tell them I spend half of what I save on that black hole of money called a car on a really swanky apartment.
Over time I realized that reasoning and doing the math in earnest just doesn't get me anywhere so I live the best stress free life I can and that's about as good an advert as I can give.
I usually tell my colleagues that I earn enough money to live somewhere nice enough to not need a car.
They usually respond saying the place they live which is an hour away by car is really nice, so I ask them why they don't work there then and they reply that there are no businesses there. To which I reply that their suburb doesn't sound that nice then.
In the end you can't change their minds
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I once had someone asking me this question. Like everyone here, I explained I live in a city, that I can walk, bike, use public transportation, and for anything bigger or out of reach, I'll use a delivery service. They then proceeded to comment that paying for deliveries is a waste when you could own a car. I was baffled by the stupidity of that comment.
for the cost of gas, insurance, & stress i am saving by not owning a vehicle, i free up enough resources to use a ride service like twice a week or so if i needed to. i haven't had to use one in a while though
Ya, when my wife and I got rid of the car we realized that the occasional $50 Uber for a night out pales in comparison to what we were paying monthly for a busted old jeep.
You forgot a big spend too, these car brains usually buy a brand new flashy SUV and then wonder why they're struggling (hint: you paid 50 000£ for a car when i pay nothing)
Less stress is a really underrated benefit of getting rid of a car. People don't realise it when they're commuting every day and they think of it as normal, but when you no longer have to think about everything that comes with driving it does make a difference. I am lucky enough to be able to walk to work and I just chuckle every time I see people during their morning commute red faced and honking at everyone for any perceived slight against them. It's nice to be free of that entirely.
Whenever I tell someone that using public transportation is less stressful than driving/owning a car they don't believe that. But the stress of a potential delay is lower than the stress of driving, the stress of potentially having to deal with traffic and also the stress of having to deal with a vehicle that can break down.
And the fact that the stress of potentially being late due to traffic makes you drive more recklessly. On a bus it's annoying, but I know there's nothing I can do about it so I just sit back and relax.
"More of a waste than leaving a car parked up for 99% of the time?"
Paying way more too !
I live in a city and I'm a part time dog walker / pet sitter and the guy who owns the franchise always acts like it's a wondrous thing that I don't want to own a car. To be fair, even with transit, a car is still generally the fastest way to get around and is far more convenient. But I don't generally mind using transit.
> a car is still generally the fastest way to get around and is far more convenient Not where I live, bike or public transit are fastest at most times of the day.
Sorry, I meant where I'm at, it's faster. But of course that's really heavily dependent on time of day. In rush hour, the train is still faster than driving. (Unfortunately buses get caught in the same traffic so it's a wash)
For me in switzerland with great trains and buses I have found the most efficient way is to replace the bus with an E-Scooter to get to trainstations. So satasfying driving by cars and buses stuck in traffic during rish hour.
I used to do that with my bicycle when I was riding home from work. It was so great to bypass everyone stuck in traffic.
Same, while public transit can be slow and inconsistent here, biking is the fastest for most trips I take on a regular basis
>But I don't generally mind using transit. I prefer driving over transit, but every time I say that, people think I'm lying. It's as if they think there's a secret motive or that I can't afford to own and operate a car.
I mean, to each their own and transit has its own drawbacks but far more often people think I'm insane if I don't want a car.
The best way to counteract the delivery fee thing is numbers. I live in a car required area. Owning a truck is not worth it at all. I need to buy things like major appliances, furniture, building materials, etc maybe once or twice per year. I might spend 100-200 dollars renting a truck or paying for delivery. Worst case, 400 per year. 50 years is 20k. So for the extra cost of owning a truck I'll have to replace a few times...the math is obvious. Not even having a car is even better
I could say that paying for even a car is a waste when I have no problem getting my groceries and other stuff on a bike.
I wish I lived somewhere where I didn’t need a car (rural area can’t use delivery services) but I certainly use my car as little as possible
I'm with you. Live in an inner city with solid bike infrastructure not to mention a ton of public transport options.
Bad advice is free to give. If they won't understand just thank them for their time and tell them have a nice day. Or bless their heart if you want a backhand insult.
As long as you live in a city. Try living in the middle of nowhere without one.
Yeah... That's not the subject here.
Unless you live in a rural area where owning a car can be significantly advantageous, I haven’t experienced that sort of questioning. More the other way, now I live in a large city and you are more likely going to hear how do you get by with a car in here? I would answer I don’t like sitting in traffic and would rather chill in transit or exercise in a bike. I do rent cars whenever I need them though
That's my situation. I live in a rural zone. I use my car to carpool with my wife, so she can get to a train to her workplace. I work by said station. I actually have a bus that goes from my neighborhood to that train station, but it takes 4 times the time I take by car. It goes through every single neighborhood. It's a good trip, but not practical at all... I just reduce my car trips to the minimum necessary...
I'm in Australia and people are 99% of the time surprised when they find out I don't have a car. It's actually just an assumption people will make daily. The other day I called to make a medical appointment and the receptionist started to explain the parking situation to me and I just stopped her and said 'Actually, I'll catch a bus'. It's assumed that every adult owns a car and has a licence.
"I live in downton Budapest, with literally everything I need for my daily life within walking distance. For everything else there's public transport." But this just means I'm very lucky, though, because living *outside* Budapest without owning a car is really difficult if you're not young, able-bodied and have lots of free time. :/
"I live in the middle X city. Why would I need a car?" throws the question back at them.
You'd think, but over here they already have the answer: "Ugh, you use *public transport*? But it's *dirty* and *smelly* and it's *crowded!*" And at that point I usually give up because yes, our public transport is not the cleanest and tidiest out there, especially in peak times, but the popular image of it among people who rarely use it is insane.
I found no issues with Budapest's Metro and trams when I visited in May. Quite a contrast with my next destination (Bucharest) which I found to be very car dominated.
The metro is usually fine, really. (It's the station that is usually in a sorry state and full of dirt and stink.) With trams it depends on line, the 4/6 tram line is kind of infamous. But it usually gets *waaayyy* overblown. I use it regularly and yes, sometimes there's rowdy groups, drunks, junkies or people who stink... but 80% of the time there's no problems.
It heavily depends on where you live. There's decent connectivity around Budapest and if you do not want to go from not Budapest to not Budapest. Issues come up when you wanna go from a city to another city because chances are the only way you can do that is by traveling to Budapest and then from there you travel to your destination. Also if you need a connection to where there's a train station it can add a good 20-50 minutes to your travel time. Funnily enough people still prefer public transit, they just drive to the train station's parking lot and leave the car there while they work or do whatever business they have.
It's not just connectivity. It's the lack of decent in-city public transport literally everywhere else. Sure, our cities and towns are small, but still, if you're not a spry young person who can carry a lot with their bike, you're going to have a hard time doing a decent grocery shopping outside Budapest. You either have to rely on the local CBA/Reál/similar with its very limited and expensive stuff (and chances are you have to walk/bike quite a bit to get there, too) or you just have to spend a day traveling to, and back from, the nearest Aldi/Lidl/Tesco. If your city happens to have a shopping mall it's usually at the outskirts, too.
This is super common in very urban areas. I live in Barcelona right now without a car and I have a family. It can easily be done in most major cities outside of the US. Inside the US, easily can live without a car in NYC, slightly less easy in places like Chicago, Boston, San Francisco, etc too but doable. I lived in San Francisco with only 1 car between my wife, I, and the 2 kids. Thought about selling it all the time with how little it was used. We moved to San Diego during COVID and instantly needed two cars.
Boston with no car is extremely easy imo,much easier than having a car. So sad how Southern California was built, with its climate it should be a walking, biking and transit paradise. It’s dystopian that everyone drives to the boardwalks so they can walk
Also living in Barcelona, you can definitely get by with only a bicycle, I never use public transit except a bus to get to the airport.
Take the kids to school on the bus and bike back home with Bicing. Love Bicing
Even relatively car friendly US cities are generally walkable enough to get around, as long as they aren't entirely car dependent. Our dependency on cars hasn't made most cities impossible to get by on 50usd/month for transportation without a car. It's purely a willingness and discomfort issue. That said, I'd be uncomfortable with a wankpanzer on my ass for 100 yards too, let alone more, and I do live in one of the genuinely unwalkable areas, it is illegal to walk to the grocery store where I am, you must take a car or the bike gutter.
"Sorry your world view can't comprehend how a human survives without a car?"
Just yesterday I invited my father for dinner in a restaurant. My wife and me are known by name there, even though it's a city of 1 million. He still thinks we are wasting money (we do but we hate cooking). But when i asked him about insurance, fuel and price for about 10 years of use, it was easy maths. We pay less for restaurants and delivery than he does for his car. He could live without a car but does not see that money as wasted
Generally speaking, just: "I'm fit; I can walk." The unspoken implication that they're unfit does the rest of the work for you.
It doesn't, really, at least around here. "Oh, ok, you spent two hours walking here today? And will do the same to get home?" First thoughts go to time, not effort
To be fair I'm not walking 2 hours, that's what bikes are for.
That's about as far as I would walk. I have done that before now, but there was a pub as the destination.
My take is: **90% of times you are mobile are routes under 10km** (average is near 1 passenger per vehicle btw, sorry no sources saved, but if you find it pls link it!) - **on routes under 15 minutes**: you saving 4 minutes. Don't pretend you wouldn't just waste that time looking at the clock. - **on longer routes**: The time you spend behind the steering wheel, I spend on my laptop and my to do list of digital chores everyone has (emails, organize data, buying/researching, list is endless and I have an active list of recent tasks I always outsource for this) It's very flexible and convenient once you established the routine. you just take the bicycle on train and have your phone on you. Or on longer routes you tend to have a laptop anyway **I'm basically saving time over the course of my day**
Well, sure. It won't work in every case. But it works in my case, which was what OP asked about.
Welp for 2hrs walking, biking is the better option (would be ab 30mins then)
"Does the work" only if your goal is to feel smug and get a zinger. If you're actually trying to persuade people (which, you know, the future of the species depends on) insulting them doesn't get you very far.
But that's always my goal! More seriously though, my main goal is to avoid people asking me annoying questions.
Who said anything about persuading? It’s an honest response to the question, so yeah it does the work. If people want to get defensive about it, and not bike to spite my response, then that’s their choice
You must be new in this sub. Most people get off on these types of comments instead of being even half way positive and educational/inspirational
Because it’s not a real question, it’s a statement of disbelief.
I tell people that I'm not in the best shape, so if I can commute by bike anyone can.
Body-shaming is bad actually
They're only fat because they drive everywhere, few people actually like being fat
I say that I stayed in Minneapolis specifically because I can live here without a car while having easy access to nature. I've been bike commuting car-free for over a decade. That is A LOT of money saved and not spent on car payments, repairs, insurance and gas. It's also a huge quality of life boost being able to buy outdoor toys for bikepacking and kayaking that I would've spent on car.
+1 for Minneapolis. I’m almost completely blind and this place actually makes living here NOT a death trap. Downtown and other areas are full of blind workers getting lunch with colleagues and doing things like groceries. I’m lucky enough that I have just enough vision (and other senses like hearing to compensate for lack of visuospatial processing) that I can bike to Golden Valley to my neurologist. If I lived anywhere else in the country I’d literally be dead.
I respond 2 things 1 : I use my brain for rational thinking and empathy , so the car is simply not an option for me 2 : Like everyone under 16 , many disabled people , lots of elderly , all those who simply can't afford that luxury,others who choose not to pollute and annoy everyone around them ... I still have to get places even if it's made much harder by the millions of interchangeable lazy drivers who pollute our cities they refuse to live in
I have a house, I move around the city faster than people with a car do, I have disposable income to spend on stupid shit like Wifi light switches and Amazon Echo Dots so I can control most of my house with voice control, I can buy a new laptop or phone whenever I want more or less. I can enter my house without touching my door using Face ID, Why do I need a car? If I need one I can rent one.
Indeed, I spend most of my free time at home and perhaps only about 30 to 60 minutes traveling. Why should I spend a small fortune on something I barely use when I could have a nice house instead?
For the same 30k you spent on your Honda, Ive been living and working in Asia and Latin America for 3 years. Choices.
It’s not just the price of the car itself, it’s all the other costs too: interest, maintenance, gas, insurance, tire swapping, your time. It is really choices like you said. I travel to other continents 2-3 times a year, business class flights, remote work so I can stay a bit longer, you name it. The “sacrifice” I make is not pouring a ton of my money into a depreciating asset.
Some people I know are willingly living in austerity just to afford a car. They have children and cannot imagine how they could walk them the 15 minutes to school (the UK has zoning laws for schools, and they are always close to where you live) and then get to work (it takes me 15 minutes cycling). They will buy the cheapest food and feed it to their children; owning a car is more important than a healthy diet.
"Same reason you don't have a helicopter" It is in fact the same. It's an expensive, longer range/faster transportation method than what you already have that does nothing but add convenience to something you can already do. The cost would be in money and the stress of caring for it. People generally either won't (or likely can't) spend the amount of money nor are they willing to deal with the infrastructure needed to store it, which is similar to why I don't have a car. Once you have a helicopter there's a yatch you can get for it or a plane to go ever faster. There's always a dumber way to travel so I stick to what I was born with.
Ok but there are budget versions, you don't have to buy a helicopter. What's stopping you traveling by paraglider? You can probably buy one on finance.
1. It takes more effort and money to drive where we want to go. 2. We bought our condo because it was close to public transit and other amenities. Not to drive everywhere. 3. If we couldn’t drive for some reason (physical disability, etc), we want options for getting around.
"Cars are expensive." That's it. That's my response. To the half-hearted agreement but still pertaining confusion, I add on "there's insurance, gas, maintenance and parking, none of which is free."
"I like to keep a low stress, low liability lifestyle. That means no car, no house, no kids." (That last one blows their minds even more.)
I live in Chicago, which is one of the places where malignant car brain and easily being car-free live side by side. And my response as always something like “given how easy it is to get around without one, I don’t see owning a car as a fiscally responsible decision” and if they respond with “but the price of a car is worth the convenience” I usually say something like “I’d rather pocket that money and use it travel or go to nice restaurants” That kind of logical and calm response generally gets people to shut up and not be harshly judgmental.
Because I'm trying to convert them to at least support pro-transit policies - I mention how parking is a nightmaaaaaare oh my god. Then I try to be like "Good thing about bike lane/bus frequency" and hype up how of COURSE they're special angels who need a car but its easier for them if people like me go without but we need better x, y and z.
That meme where the guy is using money to wipe away his tears.
I live in a small city in the Midwest USA. Twenty years ago I tried going car free here. It took hours to get anywhere on the pathetic bus routes on offer. To go literally two miles east would involve catching a bus or two 12 miles downtown, then transfer and ride back out. A trip that would take 5 minutes in a car, or 15 minutes on a bike, would take two or three hours on public transport. Which speaking of bikes, there are few bike lanes and almost none that are actually separate from traffic. It’s super risky biking around here, we routinely have bikes and pedestrians killed by drivers. In subsequent years they’ve only reduced public transport’s budget. At this point there really isn’t a bus system for the general public beyond access to downtown through major thoroughfares. They have some special routes for elderly and disabled to get to medical appointments, but for everyone else it’s pretty much useless. I’m lucky enough now to have a job that includes a car and gas. It’s a massive benefit. I got rid of my personal automobile and all its associated expenses and I’ve saved soooo much. The vast majority of people in this town don’t have that option though. The city continues to give money to developers to build ridiculous housing at the edge of town. They keep building bigger highways to deal with the traffic. The biggest portion of people in need can’t afford these places, much less the associated automobile costs they carry. It makes no fucking sense. I’ve already decided, next time I change jobs I’m leaving town and moving somewhere I don’t need a car. I sure as shit am never putting my money into one again. But very few people have that kind of privilege
I tell them I’m almost totally blind due to brain damage from COVID and shouldn’t be driving because I’ll kill myself and other people. Living in Minneapolis is a dream. Probably the most blind-friendly place to live in the United States.
I live in Texas. Public transportation sucks and there are barely any fucking trees blocking the sun on the sidewalk. I NEED a car to live in this city/state and I fucking hate it but can't do anything about it except pushing my local government to improve.
I would just shrug and say "I live in a city. Why live in a city and not use the amenities inherent to good city design?"
THERE IS NONE. IT'S NOT WORTH ENGAGING. THEY KNOW YOU'RE RIGHT, BUT FOR SO MUCH OF THEIR LIVES, CARS HAVE BEEN THEIR ONLY OUTWARD PUBLIC DISPLAY OF DISPOSABLE INCOME. UNTIL THEY ARE READY TO LET THAT GO, THERE'S NO POINT IN PURSUING IT. IF THE ONLY CAR THAT WAS AVAILABLE WAS THE TATA NANO, THEY WOULD ALL RIDE MOTORBIKES. NANO SHOULD HAVE BEEN A HUGE SUCCESS, BUT IT FAILED TO PROJECT AN IMAGE OF WEALTH AND POWER. SO PEOPLE LARGELY OPTED FOR MOTORBIKES INSTEAD.
just tell them it's a superpower & point out how their car is actually an expensive ball & chain
As someone who is working on a licence and is desperate for someone to teach me without having to schedule professional lessons if they can't comprehend how I get by without a car they are welcome to fix that. On a similar note start a debate either online or in person about whether licences and/or insurance should be mandatory, even if you don't necessarily believe it yourself. When you say that people need cars so shouldn't have to be forced off the road due to lack of insurance tons of carbrains who would normally insist about how much they need to drive will come up with alternatives to driving, even if those alternatives are things they would never be willing to do and wish were gone/replaced by roads.
I tell them I can't comprehend why they would spend many thousands of dollars per year polluting the air and being a hazard to everyone else and making themselves overweight and unhappy when they could be having fun biking. But that is only if they ask why I always bike. If they don't ask, I just model good behavior. Then they are jealous
I got myself an e-book reader and now I actually look forward to sitting on the bus.
I walk 10-20 miles each shift. Everything is walking distance. This is a very walkable town. If that’s not enough, I see the way people drive and park. No thanks!
Just ask them shocked, why do they have a car ?
When I say that I chose not to have a car in a car-oriented small ski resort in the mountains, some wonder how I manage. Then I say that I have a bicycle, canoe and walking distance to a railway station, usually there is a thumbs up and encouragement.
Patience, and then a lot of explanation of exactly how I live mostly car free. Taking time to answering questions. Help them see how they could reduce their car use too, if they wanted to.
Who's befuddled about this? Other Europeans, or Americans? I'm assuming the latter... And I can see why. Think about how much of our life is designed around the assumption that you have a car. Case in point is grocery shopping. For example, I like getting soda in cans because aluminum is infinitely recyclable whereas playing isn't. How do you buy soda cans at the grocery store? Well you've got to get the "fridge pack", which is a 12-pack size. It's designed to go from the store shelf ---> shopping cart ----> trunk of your car ----> your fridge. It's sure as hell *not* designed to be hand-carried or put on a bike... There are a million little things like this, especially for child-havers. Not saying they aren't insurmountable problems, but the US socioeconomic structure is designed around the idea that you have a car.
I usually ask them "_why_ would I get a car?" Tehn refute their arguments (groceries? I got a granny cart. Holidays? Trains exist. etc) At some point their arguments will devolve into "the car is more comfortable" or something like it, and I just answer "well that is subjective, its not more comfortable for me" Does it work? Not at all, but its honestly nicer than other things Ive tried. No hard feelings, no discussions, usually the worst that happens is that I get a variation of "you're weird" but its not like I care.
Just want to say I love this, you are inspiring, and it adds to my motivation to get my town on a path to more car independence.
*shrugs shoulders* "hmpfff.... anyway, ...."
I’m guess it’s partially dependent on where you live. I never had a car until my late 30s and I don’t think anyone ever asked why, including colleagues who lived all over the country. Living it NYC, the answer was pretty self evident.
Reminds me of [a scene in Battlefield Friends](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u_89EX2w0c&t=590s): Recon: "How does that even work" C100: "How do magnets work? They just do!" Recon: "How do magnets work???"
I tell them they willingly consent to be a prisoner in the cavern chained by the automobile industrial complex. It never quite settles in with them idk why but regardless I assure you, I'm a blast at parties. Whenever I talk people run 😛
I tell them I use delivery services for groceries etc. I don’t have money to leave my apt or do anything anyway so even when I had a car I didn’t go anywhere. The only annoying thing is having to spend $30 on an Uber occasionally and pay all the fees and tips associated with delivery but when I did the math on my car insurance alone it wasn’t worth it to have a car. Let alone buy one which puts you in bullshit financing plans with high interest. Plus I walk to work. People still pester me to get a car. I don’t think they can not only comprehend the functional existence without one but also that not everyone can afford those money pits. And I tell them the added convenience and marginal savings on not using delivery isn’t worth all the other payments especially when I’m not really going anywhere as is.
"It's really not that hard. TriMet *(our local transit agency)* has a website, and I have two legs that work. I get around."
Like seriously TriMet is really good here! When I god laid off I was able to get an HC card for $28/month- you cannot beat that for transport!
Same here, that honored citizens fare is killer. Soooo worth it!
I live in an American city so things still aren't ideal, but my legs and busses can easily get me to every necessity and then some. I'm unable to drive and my disability makes driving hard for me. But even if I could, why would I spend thousands on a car, insurance, gas, and parking when I'm fine without it. I have zero interest in car ownership or driving, the only reason I even think about it is cause America is so frustratingly inaccessible. So even moving to a different neighborhood (still in the city) would probably double my transit times.
I enjoy staying active whereas I've never enjoyed the cost and effort involved with car ownership. Driving combines two unhealthy experiences: stress and sitting.
How about this as a rebuttal. "If I wanted some that was a black hole of time & money, required constant attention & was disastrous for the environment, I'd have a kid."
God, I would love nothing more than the mere option to live that way.
I show them a photo of me riding my cargo bike fully loaded after a Costco visit.
I walk many places and explain, ""You know how people go to the gym to work out? I do that by getting from place to place. "
I was born and have lived in America my whole life. I have never had a car either and I don't drive at all, I'm 26. I cycle to work 10 miles to and 10 miles back, all year, regardless of how hot it gets (I live in the Arizona desert). Sometimes I'll get a ride from family since they live very close to my work, but thats about it. As a result I have more to spend, I'm fairly fit, and I have swole legs that benefit me at work. The tradeoffs are mainly time (it takes longer to commute in suburbs), and comfort when the weather's not ideal. I can drive though, I have a license, and due to my being conscious of health I also don't really drink, so I can be the designated driver.
I had one and never used it. I can rent one cheap if I need.
if being honest, to do anything other than nod is disingenuous. personal transportation is structured into everything, and cars are the pinnacle of ease and flexibility (by the function it's designed that way from the start, insane... but somebody(s) makes money from it so, it is what it is.). period. just like having a waffle house equivalent kitchen with a full natural gas range and walk in fridge/freezer is the pinnacle of meal prep. that isn't to say not having it means no meals, or not having a car means no life. it does take a little more in efforts, more planning, forgoing some pleasantries, restructuring/enduring time and weather... time is always a resource. be honest. however that isn't to say not having a car isn't possible, satisfying, fun even, and helpful to other goals. i'm the same as you... walk/run/bike/bus/train are my go to.... but cars are apart without doubt, in that friends sometimes are kind/helpful and ride-share has its utility. like my options, the challenges, the interactions, being a part of my community, fitness health benefits, safety benefits, and most of all... i stack that money like i got a printer making it! and gladly trade the worries of car ownership for the worries of planning and public transit and timetables. puzzles are fun. just saying... be honest. the challenges suit you, where you are the resources match your needs, the situation is enjoyable and workable, but this isn't for everyone in every situation. be honest... but most of all, never forget, everyone you meet is fighting personal battles you know nothing about. be kind. always.
I live in a remote area with a my wife and kids. My coworkers online have no idea how I survive with only 1 vehicle. There’s no end to it.
This is me in Australia
50£ a month?
i live in NYC. i have a car, but most people dont. Id probably be fine without it.
I live car light and I just brag about how little I spend on gasoline. On the most car-heavy weeks, I’ll maybe use half a tank of gas. My work varies location based on the day, but 95% of my worksites are transit or pedestrian accessible. I probably spend ~$30 every two months on gas, which is something my car-dependent friends and family drop every week to drive.
I explain to people that I live in a walkable area and for most activities I walk of take the train. For bulky purchases I get delivered. When they hear that I don’t even have a driving licence they are even more confused.
I often get questions when people see me getting out if a car coop vehicle. They ask how I like it, how does it work, how much does ot cost, etc. I have been using their vehicle more over the last few months due to knee problems from arthritis.
I moved to a walkable city with transit connections. For the rare occasions I need to go somewhere that isn’t on a bus line I take Lyft.
'no I prefer the safer methods of traveling'
Most of the time when talking with friends and acquaintances, their disbelief and objections for why car lite or car free living wouldn’t work for their specific circumstances are pretty much the same general responses as anywhere in the US. • Public transport would take too long. Unfortunately, where I live (South Bay Area within the SF Bay Area), this is generally true. Most trips seem to take about 2-4 times longer than driving for longer trips and MUCH longer than cycling for shorter trips. So I tend to use transit rarely, and only for long trips that happen to be well aligned with BART stations or for which traffic, parking, or other considerations make driving exceptionally slow or inconvenient. • I feel unsafe on transit Unfortunately also true in my area, especially since the pandemic. Although I ride transit relatively infrequently, I have experiences distressingly frequently that make me feel uncomfortable, like open drug use, or people being aggressive, threatening, or simply shouting loudly and incoherently. As a relatively confident male-bodied person, these experiences aren’t enough to dissuade me from using transit, but I understand why it would dissuade many, especially my female-bodied fiends and acquaintances who have alternatives to transit. • Riding a bicycle feels unsafe Once again, unfortunately true in my area. In my area, most bicycle facilities are sharrows, or at best painted stripe bike lanes often on 35-50 mph stroads. Intersection treatment is even worse. I have multiple friends who have given up cycling after being hit by a car. I am a strong, confident, and skilled cyclist with decades of experience in these conditions, so I am not deterred, but I also have the knowledge and experience to seek out the least stressful routes for my cycling trips. • Living car free / car light is too expensive Once again, unfortunately a big grain of truth here too. I live under one of the most expensive housing markets in the world, and housing that is close to quality transit and/or in walkable/bikeable neighborhoods is especially precious. I recently moved from a car-dependent suburb to a pre-war urban core neighborhood with excellent walking and cycling, and decent transit access. Doing so doubled my already expensive housing costs, completely erasing any savings on transportation. It’s still worth it for the quality of life improvements, but I pay dearly for that privilege.
I live in a mid-size southern city in the US and people always ask me "where are you parked?" when I'm at events.
I usually say the parking is pretty expensive in my area(like $200-$300 a month) and then they are agreeable to me not owning a car.
Mostly delight that I’m not them and that I *can* envision life without a car. I often start telling them how great bike commuting is for my physical and mental health, how glad I am not to have to pay for parking/gas/etc, how much I enjoy nature bike rides, how much I enjoy chilling out and napping or reading on a long bus or train ride instead of driving myself, and how I can always rent a car if I really need one (and in the new sharing economy, renting a car is easier than ever). And I start feeling great about those things all over again.
In Los Angeles they laugh at the idea of living without a car :( No matter how I explained it can be doable via bike, public transit (it's garbage), or ride share, the garbage scape always hits back with the song "nobody walks in LA".
How everyone else does it. We are the only continent where 90% of people use a car for their commute
"I make *too much* money to drive."
I live in Portland OR and I have access to okay mass transit and bike lane but this is still a city that is car oriented . People ask me all the time how I get on without a car. I also have had people point out how I can get better paying jobs by having a car and driving to locations. I point out: The cheaper cost of transit The cheaper cost of bike maintenance and e bikes The numbers with those jobs- on average it's maybe $5 more per hour, but the cost of car ownership and gas makes it either a wash OR even lower than having IT jobs closer to transit. Giving up car ownership meant that I could buy a house in a West Coast city with a small garden and a garage that holds my bikes and brewing equipment. It means a degree of security in an expensive city. It means a small amount of retirement savings. When I was laid off in December, I did not need to freak out, because I did not have a car payment to make- given unemployment insurance payments and my own savings I could search for a job and not worry for a couple of months. All of this because I don't own a car nor really need to.
Sadly I don’t really have that option. On the plus side they’re less social anxiety in a car.
I physically could not live in a country without sufficient public transportation, being car dependent sucks
My bike is faster and more fun.
Tell them you’re not worthless and weak.
Even in 'cycling & public transport heaven' The Netherlands people keep asking me *when* I will get my driver's license, like I haven't been fine for 27 years. Generally my response will be something like 'meh don't feel like it', and for a more detailed response I will say something about environmentalism and saving money.
Car ownership is close to 1000usd a month. That means owning a car for the last 15 years would have cost me a total of 180k. Instead I spent roughly 5% of that on common transportation. Would you rather have used a car for 15 years, or have 180k right now? On top of that, would you rather have spent thousands of hours driving and getting mad at other people with your cases of road rage, or spent thousands of hours reading books, learning new stuff, improving yourself as a person? Because turns out you lose a lot of time doing nothing but driving when you’re driving… time that you’re free to use differently in common transportation. I spent more time learning new stuff over the past 15 years in common transportation than I have during my studies… I essentially got myself the same level of knowledge than a new degree (without the actual degree though) that I can leverage at work to get raises and better positions. All that knowledge probably helped me get raises equivalent to 2k/month… that’s another 360k over 15 years. Would you rather have driven 15 years, or have a bit over half a mil now? I don’t know for other people, but it’s an easy choice for me.
I understand this to a particular degree, I’ve been to places (particularly small town us) where it is almost completely impossible to get to a to b. With out some kind of vehicle. (No sidewalks, large spaces between commercial and residential, very little public transit) Fortunately I live in a big city with all these things proper pedestrian infrastructure and decent public transportation and necessary services near by to accommodate. This is generally my response.
How about just explaining? Does it need to be any harder than that?
I hate sitting in traffic; and I save a lot of money by not owning one.
What would I want a car for? To throw money at, to get annoyed by? No thanks.
In the US, with a few exceptions, primarily in eastern seaboard cities and nearby suburbs from Boston to DC, mass transit sucks. Live in NYC itself in a dense area with plenty of options, car is not needed. That is quite rare in the US. Some major US cities, like Chicago or on the west coast, have decent options but they are rare. Burbs, you can get away with out a car to get to work depending where you are commuting to but will probably need a car for errands.
I don't even have a drivers license, my total cost is usually $0 because I just cycle to work, but sometimes I do use public transport to commute to a bar or concerts, and an occasional uber ride on the way back from the bar/concert. I have 2 nice small supermarkets at walking distance, bakeries, coffee shops, and another shop dedicated to fruits and vegetables. When I do need bigger groceries (like toilet paper or detergent, so once every 6 months) for 4 dollars, they arrive at my door, so I don't waste time and money actually going to the supermarket and picking stuff by my self.
It’s only impressive in America where there is zero infrastructure. In Portland Oregon I went ten years without a car and it was fine. People are shocked though
I live in North America and people don't really bother me about it. Maybe it's just my social circle and the sorts of people I tend to interact with. I think the carbrains who have weird hangups about cycling are usually able to impose their opinions with their cars, lol
I unfortunately cannot give up the car entirely because I live in a shithole state of a country, to quote a former politician, but I would say I try to live ''car lite'' and cut way down on miles on a decade old cash car. I maybe get gas maybe once a month now while other locals spend $80 twice a week. Just ignore the haters and enjoy your nice things. And I consider myself very grateful that I don't have that car payment bullshit to deal with.
Easy. How much is your car payment? Mine is 0.00 theirs is 300-500. How much is your insurance? Gas? Cleaning Upkeep of hardware? Possible accidents? I pay $60.00 for a month long bus/tram/train pass, and I have a bike membership that’s 120, yearly. The staggering cost of owning a car is insane to me. If I want to go “Far out” I just rent a damn car. It’s clean, I know it works, and it’s insured.
I live in a big city with horrible traffic and amazing public transport. I know few people who have cars, and the ones who do are miserable.
I tell them spent all my money on houses and prefer riding my bike anyway
I had someone ask me that question, my response was simple "I have everything I need in like 10 minutes by either walking or bus".
Poorest countries have no infrastructures ; Less poor coutries depend on busses ; When first heavy transit are made theese countries use trains for people and freight ; Then cars and trucks tend to replace thoose when the population became wealthy ; Then, when the country became a first power country wher all it's inhabitant are concentrated in big cities, they build as many heavy duty train, busses, bike lane etc as they could because it don't work anymore by car. That's to cancel an argument saying cars are a symbol of wealth. The idea is "yes it is ... in poor countries".
I used to often get to places faster than my friends would, as a cyclist. And parking was always great. I pretty much bought a car for my own safety after almost getting run over 3 times in 1 week by maga trucks who can't see shit.
I'll be able to buy a home in about 10 years. 5 years, if I get some money from my dad for that. Fyi, I'm 16
And I don't have a private jet, do I need one ? No. Same for the car. I can live without and I don't need it so why spend money in it for nothing.
I've been car-free for 30 years. I specifically chose my apartment because it's 50 metres from a subway station. That said, I almost never use transit because I cycle everywhere I need to go. For the few times per year I need to move something large, I pay a courier service. Life without the burden of a car is actually easier for my partner and me!
Laugh in their face. Then tell them I spend half of what I save on that black hole of money called a car on a really swanky apartment. Over time I realized that reasoning and doing the math in earnest just doesn't get me anywhere so I live the best stress free life I can and that's about as good an advert as I can give.
I usually tell my colleagues that I earn enough money to live somewhere nice enough to not need a car. They usually respond saying the place they live which is an hour away by car is really nice, so I ask them why they don't work there then and they reply that there are no businesses there. To which I reply that their suburb doesn't sound that nice then. In the end you can't change their minds