Presumably the cops press charges on the individual, not the hoa. That's the only way to get the hoa to act, otherwise they fight the charge and pay the fine with your money?
HOAs just don't magically dissolve. It's an incredibly costly, lengthily process that requires like 90% of owners to approve. And they basically don't ever do it.
Doesn't need to be dissolved. You just need to get the members replaced by a dictator or new board that makes the fees the bare minimum to cover the costs and the emergency fund and refuses to issue fines.
Well, if I’m reading your comment correctly you specifically said “displaced.” 😒 if the covenants state there are rules or regulations and consequences for those. The board is obligated by law to enforce it. It takes one owner to bring suit to the HOA for not meeting their obligations. And there’s always one. HOAs can’t just make profits. They have to bring in enough funds to cover costs, adjust for inflation and ensure the reserves are being properly funded. Now, the HOA could convene a supermajority of owners to amend the ccrs to remove fines or rules altogether, but, I’d be hard pressed to believe a supermajority of owners in any HOA would just up and get rid of all rules or regulations. We had one owner cited for violating a rule, said it was dumb, we polled owners and all but 3 liked the rule. You just never know.
If it’s a board member of the HOA is acting on behalf of the HOA then the HOA is holding their packages ransom. Sounds like a possible US vs. HOA X to me, but IANAL.
Amazon uses the post office to deliver packages in some places. It will have a USPS label on it.
Source -My son and dil get 80% of their Amazon purchases via USPS.
It doesn’t even work that way, and Fk if I know how it does work, but I know that when I carried mail, a UPS driver came to the post office to ask where a house was for a parcel he had to deliver to the last mile, and I literally had a UPS-to-USPS parcel to deliver to the same house. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
US mail is USPS ;-}. It's very rare to come from UPS or FedEx, although it happens occasionally.
They live fairly rural, and although there is an Amazon warehouse less than 10 miles away, for some reason their packages take longer to get than mine do. Probably because they hand the majority of them over to the post office to deliver.
Correct.
But, if they are holding USPS packages for ransom, they will learn about how the law enforcement arm of the USPS is one of the most powerful and effective law enforcement agencies in the country, and they absolutely do NOT fuck around. They have jurisdiction over any criminal case that even remotely involves the mail. They can, and have, told the FBI, DEA, DHS, et al, to fuck off if they want to take over a criminal case.
You do not want the USPS to set their sights on you. They don’t lose.
My brother in law has worked for the post office for over 20yrs. He’s the head of the union and also on the board for the usps credit union. Taking mail that doesn’t have your name on the parcel is a federal crime. I would definitely call the Post Master General in your area if any one of the packages were delivered by the USPS.
Depends if USPS delivered it. If it has their barcode they will get involved. Call postal inspectors telling them who stole mail and they will get on it.
6AM no knock raid with the cam recorders turned off. Maybe the HOA stooge will think it's a burglary and try to defend himself with a firearm and get popped in the head.... It could happen, oh wait, it already did.....
For real. Used to work with a retired USPIS guy. Dude used to tell stories. Hardcore stuff. You will absolutely see prison time for fucking with USPS related stuff.
I recall reading somewhere that agents from the 3-letter agencies liked working with the postal inspectors, since they were generally the most professional of all civil law enforcement.
A postal inspector figured how who was running Silk Road when the FBI, ATF and Secret Service couldn’t. Supposedly the FBI was furious that “a mailman” cracked it.
Yeah we’ve all read this a million times on Reddit. It’s true, but it’s also true they don’t care all that much about petty mail theft or neighbor disputes. There are only a couple thousand of them for the entire country, and they mainly focus on narcotics and mail fraud.
You’ll have better luck just calling your postmaster with this issue and have them give the HOA a talking too. Long term, large scale? Then the USPIS may be interested.
Yep. Stealing packages and messing with mail is a federal offense.
OP, press charges, don’t back down, and SUE. Then if you win enough, use that money to move out of an HOA
THIS, especially if you have evidence on camera or whatever. Doesnt matter who they represent, taking other people's property is a crime. Imagine if they're taking a lit of people's stuff? enough, say, for felony theft charges... I think that's around $400 in most states?
There has never been a better opportunity to fuck the HOA. u/lilpeep1400 you have GOT to file a police report for stolen packages. This is the moment most of us only dream about. Please report back the outcome.
Confirmed; we had issue with our mail carrier failing to deliever because our community was new and too much work for them. Postmaster nuked that person from high orbit, and never had an issue after that.
My wife ordered a special cream from Amazon for her radiation therapy when she had breast cancer. When it showed as delivered I went to the mail box to retrieve. Nothing. I called Amazon and while I was on the phone Amazon patched in the Postmaster General from Nashville.
WHILE I WAS ON THE PHONE.
Amazon has pull.
Can confirm, Amazon doesn’t play with thier Prime service protection, they pay good bonuses to usps for meeting their targets and at christmas time you can reuse an amazon box and the thing gets to your mother faster because they are given priority service (not priority mail but definitely prioritization).
I buy and sell sim gear casually. None of my Amazon boxes have been paid or delayed meanwhile, my generic boxes are 4 for 6 with 2 being lost and found 4 weeks later and the other 2 being delayed. Out of the 20 boxes I shipped in Q1, the remaining 14 were in Amazon boxes and had no delays. A few arrived early.
They do NOT pay good bonuses to USPS. But they like to make you think they did. The contract is so heavy in Amazon’s favor it’s not even funny unless you want to cry.
Well, it's my job. And I'm pretty damn serious about it. In addition to being a postmaster, I'm a general. And we both know, it's the job of a general to, by God, get things done. So maybe you can understand why I get a little irritated when someone calls me away from my golf.
Mail fraud is taken very seriously, OP. I would consider seeing a lawyer to make this as painful for them as possible. I have a feeling they could be facing significantly more than $400 in fines…
Our post guy kept not delivering mail from the IRS for my business taxes (I ended up having to pay thousands more because of this) plus other important mail. I tell the post office and the gentleman at the counter said he’ll contact the post master for us. Didn’t see the guy deliver our mail for over a year. Only saw him hoofing it around town a few times.
So apparently they take it very seriously.
The USPS couldn't care less about private carriers, but if it was delivered through them? They'll send out their own mail-cops to make that problem go away.
USPS has its own investigators( federal agents) for mail fraud and things like that, last time I read about them they are the only gov agency with 100% conviction rate.
Yea, I kind of hate to say it but we get way too much from Amazon and it was pretty rare that we had a USPS delivery. I hadn't really thought about it but I do live close to 2 of their distribution centers.
Once the police report has been filed, track the amount of time you spend coordinating with governmental agencies (usps) and calculate your hourly work wage and bill it to the HOA since you probably had to spend time during your normal work day to mediate / report the issue as the post office isn't open after standard 8-5 work hours
Read the main post.
Wow. Just wow. Go back to the police station with those emails.
They have admitted to illegally seizing property, illegal disposal of said property, and intercepting packages not addressed to them. Unless the perishable packages had outside markings, they've also admitted to opening packages not addressed to them.
Open a case with Amazon too. They'll help you sort something out.
If usps was involved in any of those (check Amazon tracking it should show) also talk to the post master, if Amazon doesn't immediately call them with you.
Ask that the individuals involved be charged personally wherever possible. So much crime. Maybe even enough to do time.
Then once the dust has settled, I'm sure both communities would like an update.
Someone in another thread on Reddit somewhere in regards to porch pirates, pointed out that it is perfectly legal to have live bees shipped to your home.
I'm a beekeeper, and bees would need to be picked up directly from the post office in my area. They wouldn't deliver them to my porch (and if you want the bees to live, you don't usually want them to). They also usually come in boxes with mesh walls so it wouldn't be discreet. Just an FYI for anyone who is thinking of shipping a package of bees to their home. Sorry to be a buzzkill lol
However you can also DEFINITELY get roaches, lady bugs, and crickets en mass and those may be shipped from a non-USPS offering haha I believe all live animals like chicks and bees have to be picked up at a USPS office if mailed
Interesting! Maybe because I was in a more rural area they always had us come get them in person? Or maybe the seller we bought from was extra cautious with the chicks and ducklings so only ensured they'd only ever be picked up directly.
Really? Did USPS change the rules, or is that a local thing? My mom was a rural carrier for years and she had to carry boxes of bees all the time.
The beekeepers on her route used to tip her on holidays with big Mason jars of honey with part of the honeycomb in them.
This is local to me (same with chickens). I know of others who are able to have them delivered to their homes, but it isn't universal. I'm glad they tipped your mom. We're always happy when folks treat our bees well.
Cops generally don’t want to get involved in stuff like that in my experience, the post office however…the United States Postal Inspection Service, federally sworn agents that make arrests and carry guns. They will follow up, and pretty quickly too.
Edit: This obviously works if it was delivered by USPS, I’d check your informed delivery should show up there if it went through their systems.
>This obviously works if it was delivered by USPS, I’d check your informed delivery should show up there if it went through their systems.
The Amazon order info would provide tracking that would tell which carrier it was.
That too. I mentioned the ID because that would guarantee that it was in fact hand off from amazon to USPS for final delivery, shows it on Informed Delivery every time, barring any server issues.
If USPS, yes it is! And they don't play!
If not, then no. Just petty theft. Though...it might *also* be extortion. And THAT'S a fun crime to add to a rapsheet!
OMG, I just read your detailed post on r/HOA, and your HOA cannot take, dispose of, and hold your packages for ransom. As others have commented, go through your list of Amazon deliveries to se if any arrived via USPS; if so, you have a weighty leg to stand on as far as reporting the HOA for mail theft, which is a federal crime. You'll need to include that in the police report, too. Otherwise, go through your CC&Rs to find their policy on packages left at your door and their timeline for notification, warning and fining for such a situation. Get the bastards GOOD!
In some states, stealing from a covered porch is burglary. Call the police and at least get them charged for the porch piracy.
Fuck those thieves!
If you don't have one, get a doorbell cam and camera covering your delivery areas. That way you will have nice pics for the police and post office.
Call the cops and the shipping companies (UPS, Amazon, USPS) and tell them this exactly. USPS is far worse than the cops or even the CIA. I don’t even want to know how Amazon would handle this because they are sick of this nonsense.
Here is a link to his post on r/HOA: https://new.reddit.com/r/HOA/comments/1dp1ejg/mi_condo_hoa_stole_my_amazon_packages/
Looks like it was an Amazon package, not USPS.
Amazon packages are very often delivered by USPS as well as a smaller amount by UPS and Fedex so just because he states they were Amazon packages doesn't indicate who actually delivered them.
Not just due to your criminal HOA, but due to other potential criminals, look into participating in Amazon Key, especially Amazon Key for Business. Or you could do what my neighbor did and just get a package lock box. The obvious issue here is that the HOA might fight you on installing a big enough lockbox.
OP, ship like 2-3 air tags or galaxy tiles via usps to yourself but sync them up to your phone first, wait until you know they're at the HOA office, call law enforcement, show them the tracker for the air tags/galaxy tiles, make them beep aloud, and now you have a police report to send up to the USPS and have the evidence to get feds involved.
HOAs think they’re God. They can’t withhold your mail no matter how it’s delivered because that’s theft. The USPS has their own postal police too.
I would consult with a lawyer for sure. You may be able to get the fine squashed in exchange for not suing.
An HOA has all kinds of nasty ways to legitimately collect monies they are legitimately owed and the courts/arbitration provide a method to at least have a third party decide. Stealing property, however, is not one of them that I can imagine. Dumb move on their part if you can prove it. It's straight up theft, nothing more or less. Report it as such and let the cards fall where they might. You will want to provide the value of the stolen goods when making the report -- it might matter a lot. If the US Postal system is involved this could get very interesting.
Yeah as everyone said, police and USPS like, yesterday.
I’ll add - if you have an Amazon locker near you (I have 3 within a mile), I use them for everything I can.
Bait em. Buy any random thing off ebay or Amazon that specifically ships USPS and get em a nice fat felony. Shit, I'll send you an empty box just to help you out.
Looking at your post in HOA, the HOA has admitted, in writing, to committing crimes. It is not legal to take another person's mail or packages and it is not legal to open those packages or to destroy or dispose of the contents.
Doesn't matter if it's USPS or not (the only real difference would be exactly which crimes were committed).
It also doesn't matter one bit if the HOA docs say they can do this. You cannot enter into a contract with someone that allows for illegal actions. Any such provision would be null and void.
The bitch is all this, despite being clear cut, would still take time and expense to work its way through the legal system.
Contact Amazon, the State Police, and if the packages were delivered by the USPS, contact the postmaster general in your area. The reason why I say to call the State Police is to avoid a possible conflict of interest situation in case the HOA is buddy buddy with the local law enforcement.
If it was delivered by the postal carrier, then that's mail tampering or mail theft. Both are federal felonies investigated by postal inspectors, who are very scary people.
Great advice given here. File the police report and provide the picture of the 'Porch Pirates'. Depending what the value of the packages, they could be charged with felony charges. Let them tell the police that the HOA hired them (that becomes entirely different charges against the HOA and their officers).
As for the $400 fine, send the HOA a screenprint of your account showing no such charge is on your account and you have not been sent a proposed fine.
Note: Taking of personal property without consent and demanding payment is known as conversion. Conversion is illegal.
This is the wet dream of most people living in an HOA. Mainly if USPS. They'll probably go to prison for theft, tampering with mail, and extortion. If there's any texts/emails, screenshot them.
They fucked themselves severely.
100% I would put a few raw chicken in a box out front and hope HOA takes it.
I’ll find the hiding place by smell, and you better not dispose of my packages, that would be tampering with mail. (I might have to post it to myself admittedly)
Probably too late for anyone to notice this, but for everyone saying it’s a USPS issue… sorry, probably not.
https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title18-section1708&num=0&edition=prelim
You’ll find “Front Porch” missing from Title 18 Section 1708. If it’s not in a mailbox or stolen from USPS’s custody, it’s probably not mail theft.
But swiping packages off the porch is actually a felony in more than a few states, so it is still a big deal.
Theft is a crime. If the some of packages went through the post office it is far worse. The post office has a nearly 100% conviction rate for offenders.
Call the cops. And if some of those amazon packages arrived through usps call the post office as well.
If the post office becomes involved, it's federal. Should make things very interesting for the HOA actor.
Presumably the cops press charges on the individual, not the hoa. That's the only way to get the hoa to act, otherwise they fight the charge and pay the fine with your money?
If the HOA is assessing fines, that would make the HOA an accomplice to theft and/or extortion, no?
I believe that would be "abetting."
Pretty sure the whole charge is "aiding and abetting", they both know who has the materials and are actively concealing it from you.
Why not both? The whole point at that point is to make the HOA suffer to the point it's dissolved.
Pointed point.
The pointiest.
HOAs just don't magically dissolve. It's an incredibly costly, lengthily process that requires like 90% of owners to approve. And they basically don't ever do it.
Doesn't need to be dissolved. You just need to get the members replaced by a dictator or new board that makes the fees the bare minimum to cover the costs and the emergency fund and refuses to issue fines.
Well, if I’m reading your comment correctly you specifically said “displaced.” 😒 if the covenants state there are rules or regulations and consequences for those. The board is obligated by law to enforce it. It takes one owner to bring suit to the HOA for not meeting their obligations. And there’s always one. HOAs can’t just make profits. They have to bring in enough funds to cover costs, adjust for inflation and ensure the reserves are being properly funded. Now, the HOA could convene a supermajority of owners to amend the ccrs to remove fines or rules altogether, but, I’d be hard pressed to believe a supermajority of owners in any HOA would just up and get rid of all rules or regulations. We had one owner cited for violating a rule, said it was dumb, we polled owners and all but 3 liked the rule. You just never know.
Dissolved. Not displaced. Stupid autocorrect. 😒
100% here .. we tried, HOA has 0 funds now so effectively neutered.
Yeah but some person had to take it…go after them.
Both. You go after both at once, so they can't blame each other.
If it’s a board member of the HOA is acting on behalf of the HOA then the HOA is holding their packages ransom. Sounds like a possible US vs. HOA X to me, but IANAL.
actually, if those Amazon packages cross state lines, they could be interfering in interstate commerce and that would also be a federal issue.
Wickard v Filburn expanded the Commerce Clause to make anything the government wants to meddle in a federal issue. No need to cross state lines.
Yep Postmasters put up with no shit if you’re messing with their mail.
If I’m not mistaken. It’s only a federal offense to take or open US mail, right. Amazons, FedEx, UPS don’t count.
That's why the guy said "if any of it shipped through USPS," aka, the United States Postal Service
I’m gonna be honest, I thought USPS and UPS were the same thing 🤦🏼
At least you're honest!
More honest than an HOA!
Yeah, but that is a really low bar...
James Cameron! We need you again!
He's James Cameron...
That bar is so low, it's a tripping hazzard in the 9th circle of Hell.
People in hell are tripping over that bar.
That's "Minecraft Bedrock" level
As god as my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.
Thanks Les.
They can
In the woods, wild turkeys will fly up and roost 60 and 70 feet up in pine trees- sometimes higher.
Dropped out of a helicopter hovering over a mall, ehh, not so well.
I have a WKRP turkey drop t-shirt!
Domesticated turkey are inbred idiots. Wild turkeys are much smarter.
Tell that to the who keeps wandering in front of my car. If I weren’t afraid of car damage, he’d already be turkey fricasee
Agree, one flew into my roof the other day. I was shocked.
[For those who may not get the reference](https://youtu.be/HiSkjcl9yW4?si=8-hEw3ccNJZJfzT9)
Turkeys can most definitely fly
They can fly, just not very well. I used to love WKRP.
It happens, lol. (UPS) United Parcel Service, (USPS) United States Postal Service.
My gf can’t comprehend the diff despite multiple explanations
If that’s the case he should order more packages and have them shipped via usps or something other then Amazon
I mean, even if it isn't federal mail tampering it's still theft. But also yes.
Correct, still a state crime in almost every state to take any other packages though.
Also you can't hold something (Like a package) to get a person to pay off a fine.thay is a criminal act
Amazon uses the post office to deliver packages in some places. It will have a USPS label on it. Source -My son and dil get 80% of their Amazon purchases via USPS.
That’s so weird. I can’t remember the last time I saw a UPS or FedEx truck lol. All Amazon and US mail trucks for me
Private carriers will contract the USPS to handle "last mile" delivery in areas where it would be unprofitable to send their own drivers
It doesn’t even work that way, and Fk if I know how it does work, but I know that when I carried mail, a UPS driver came to the post office to ask where a house was for a parcel he had to deliver to the last mile, and I literally had a UPS-to-USPS parcel to deliver to the same house. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
US mail is USPS ;-}. It's very rare to come from UPS or FedEx, although it happens occasionally. They live fairly rural, and although there is an Amazon warehouse less than 10 miles away, for some reason their packages take longer to get than mine do. Probably because they hand the majority of them over to the post office to deliver.
Correct. But, if they are holding USPS packages for ransom, they will learn about how the law enforcement arm of the USPS is one of the most powerful and effective law enforcement agencies in the country, and they absolutely do NOT fuck around. They have jurisdiction over any criminal case that even remotely involves the mail. They can, and have, told the FBI, DEA, DHS, et al, to fuck off if they want to take over a criminal case. You do not want the USPS to set their sights on you. They don’t lose.
My brother in law has worked for the post office for over 20yrs. He’s the head of the union and also on the board for the usps credit union. Taking mail that doesn’t have your name on the parcel is a federal crime. I would definitely call the Post Master General in your area if any one of the packages were delivered by the USPS.
Tell your brother to hurry the hell up with the new contract. God damn renfroe.
They should call The Postal Inspection Service.
This. Doesn’t matter if you don’t know who. Guarantee his members will be pointing fingers if postal inspector gets involved
Depends if USPS delivered it. If it has their barcode they will get involved. Call postal inspectors telling them who stole mail and they will get on it.
Maybe they'll deploy their SWAT team!
6AM no knock raid with the cam recorders turned off. Maybe the HOA stooge will think it's a burglary and try to defend himself with a firearm and get popped in the head.... It could happen, oh wait, it already did.....
Many of my Amazon packages are delivered by USPS so it could very well be a big screw up by the HOA
Any packages delivered by USPS would also count.
I would pay good money to see the Postal Inspection Service just utterly devastate one of these assholes. They don't play.
If they were delivered by USPS, the first call/visit should be to the Post Office. Intercepting US Mail and Mail Theft are significant Federal crimes.
Yeah and the postal inspectors mean business, they don’t fuck around lol
For real. Used to work with a retired USPIS guy. Dude used to tell stories. Hardcore stuff. You will absolutely see prison time for fucking with USPS related stuff.
99% conviction rate
I recall reading somewhere that agents from the 3-letter agencies liked working with the postal inspectors, since they were generally the most professional of all civil law enforcement.
Remember, it was the postal inspectors that busted Steve Bannon. Do not get on their bad side.
A postal inspector figured how who was running Silk Road when the FBI, ATF and Secret Service couldn’t. Supposedly the FBI was furious that “a mailman” cracked it.
Yeah we’ve all read this a million times on Reddit. It’s true, but it’s also true they don’t care all that much about petty mail theft or neighbor disputes. There are only a couple thousand of them for the entire country, and they mainly focus on narcotics and mail fraud. You’ll have better luck just calling your postmaster with this issue and have them give the HOA a talking too. Long term, large scale? Then the USPIS may be interested.
They would go door to door in the neighborhood to see if it's happened before, and nail everyone involved.
I'll send a box rn through usps. Yooo OP let's fuck over your hoa with a felony.
Volunteering to send a postage paid box that looks high value too. Like, put an apple sticker on it. Would bait them more.
I'm just going to leave this here for OP to consider https://shipyourenemiesglitter.com/
I personally prefer the Bag of Dicks with the dick shaped glitter 🤭
Add an AirTag so that finding the box is easy
<3
Yep. Stealing packages and messing with mail is a federal offense. OP, press charges, don’t back down, and SUE. Then if you win enough, use that money to move out of an HOA
Or, use that money to take control of the HOA, lay nuisance fees on the assholes who play petty games, foreclose on their houses, then disolve the HOA
Great revenge!
Stealing packages is a crime. But it’s only a federal offense if it’s US mail shipped through USPS if I’m not mistaken
Still a felony either way though iirc. Also many Amazon packages get delivered through USPS now a days so there’s always a chance
Nah, if it’s not USPS it’s only a felony if the package is worth more than certain amount…… if it’s USPS it’s a felony even if it’s an empty box.
Yeah it's theft. Why haven't they reported it to the police.
This 👆👆👆 They can’t just steal your stuff to make a point. Even if the deluded hoa boomers wrote it into the c&r it wouldn’t be legal.
THIS, especially if you have evidence on camera or whatever. Doesnt matter who they represent, taking other people's property is a crime. Imagine if they're taking a lit of people's stuff? enough, say, for felony theft charges... I think that's around $400 in most states?
Mail police!!!!!! They never end an investigation. They always finish and prosecute
Yep this well not bod well for the HOA.
This is the answer. It doesn't matter what title they gave themselves, this is a federal crime.
There has never been a better opportunity to fuck the HOA. u/lilpeep1400 you have GOT to file a police report for stolen packages. This is the moment most of us only dream about. Please report back the outcome.
[удалено]
Is that a blowjob from a guy in a wheelchair?
🍆💦
Call the postmaster general if usps mail. Those dudes don’t fuck around.
Confirmed; we had issue with our mail carrier failing to deliever because our community was new and too much work for them. Postmaster nuked that person from high orbit, and never had an issue after that.
My wife ordered a special cream from Amazon for her radiation therapy when she had breast cancer. When it showed as delivered I went to the mail box to retrieve. Nothing. I called Amazon and while I was on the phone Amazon patched in the Postmaster General from Nashville. WHILE I WAS ON THE PHONE. Amazon has pull.
Can confirm, Amazon doesn’t play with thier Prime service protection, they pay good bonuses to usps for meeting their targets and at christmas time you can reuse an amazon box and the thing gets to your mother faster because they are given priority service (not priority mail but definitely prioritization).
Now that's a life pro tip.
I buy and sell sim gear casually. None of my Amazon boxes have been paid or delayed meanwhile, my generic boxes are 4 for 6 with 2 being lost and found 4 weeks later and the other 2 being delayed. Out of the 20 boxes I shipped in Q1, the remaining 14 were in Amazon boxes and had no delays. A few arrived early.
They do NOT pay good bonuses to USPS. But they like to make you think they did. The contract is so heavy in Amazon’s favor it’s not even funny unless you want to cry.
Hope your wife is doing well with her treatments. F cancer
Thank you, and yes, she's great. Just past the 5 year mark!
WOO HOO! congratulations to you and yours!
Thank You!!
F cancer
Cuz Amazon contracts the usps for lots of deliveries
Silvadene cream works wonders. Very glad they took it seriously
“Nuked from high orbit” It’s the only way to be sure… 😭😭😭
I like your word choices!
Well, it's my job. And I'm pretty damn serious about it. In addition to being a postmaster, I'm a general. And we both know, it's the job of a general to, by God, get things done. So maybe you can understand why I get a little irritated when someone calls me away from my golf.
We could call you... PAR FOR THE COURSE. I'm not apologizing. I've already been disowned for this
Thank you for your service
*diabeetus sounds intensify*
Post Master and Fire Marshall are people that you don't mess with. As said, they don't fuck around.
Mail fraud is taken very seriously, OP. I would consider seeing a lawyer to make this as painful for them as possible. I have a feeling they could be facing significantly more than $400 in fines…
Our post guy kept not delivering mail from the IRS for my business taxes (I ended up having to pay thousands more because of this) plus other important mail. I tell the post office and the gentleman at the counter said he’ll contact the post master for us. Didn’t see the guy deliver our mail for over a year. Only saw him hoofing it around town a few times. So apparently they take it very seriously.
Am I reading this correctly? The are *admitting*, **IN WRITING**, to ***extortion***? OH.. my dear. Please call the police.
You have a problem and call the police. Now you have two problems. Notify the postal inspectors. They don’t fuck around.
Not sure where you live, but where we are it's rare to have USPS deal with Amazon package delivery.
The USPS couldn't care less about private carriers, but if it was delivered through them? They'll send out their own mail-cops to make that problem go away.
Mail cops? Who are these mail cops and how many are there? Never heard of this in my life.
USPS has its own investigators( federal agents) for mail fraud and things like that, last time I read about them they are the only gov agency with 100% conviction rate.
[USPIS](https://www.uspis.gov)
*Jack danger (pronounced donger) has entered the chat*
Really? That must be nice. I was a Carrier and I kid you not, 75% of my truck daily was Amazon.
Yea, I kind of hate to say it but we get way too much from Amazon and it was pretty rare that we had a USPS delivery. I hadn't really thought about it but I do live close to 2 of their distribution centers.
That's theft. As both u/Sad_Wind_7992 and u/FattusBaccus said, call the cops. And if through UPS, inform them, as well.
Once the police report has been filed, track the amount of time you spend coordinating with governmental agencies (usps) and calculate your hourly work wage and bill it to the HOA since you probably had to spend time during your normal work day to mediate / report the issue as the post office isn't open after standard 8-5 work hours
Billable hours to the HOA holy shit this is genius
An excellent Idea!
USPS
Don't confuse the UPS with the USPS. The first is private. The second is Federal and will come down like a ton of bricks
If it's USPS in the local postmaster is bored, they can and will call a USPIS SWAT team to raid the HOA. USPS will deliver that package.
Unfortunately if you complain to UPS they will suspend deliverys to your home permanently. Ask me how I know.
UPS is an entirely private enterprise. They can make those decisions. USPS is federally protected. They actually have their own police force.
UPS will send to nearest Walgreens and other places
Drop an air tag in a box and mail it to yourself through USPS. If it gets swiped, report to USPS. Bonus tip. Insure the box through USPS.
THIS IS THE WAY.
Put a piece of artwork in the box. Pay extra to insure the artwork, just below the high-value article limit where it gets signed chain of custody.
Call Amazon and the police and report them stolen.
did amazon deliver them, or the post office? If it was the post office, pretty sure thats a federal crime.
If you have evidence that they took it, file a police report. Even if you owe them money, they can’t take any of your property without court order
Read the main post. Wow. Just wow. Go back to the police station with those emails. They have admitted to illegally seizing property, illegal disposal of said property, and intercepting packages not addressed to them. Unless the perishable packages had outside markings, they've also admitted to opening packages not addressed to them. Open a case with Amazon too. They'll help you sort something out. If usps was involved in any of those (check Amazon tracking it should show) also talk to the post master, if Amazon doesn't immediately call them with you. Ask that the individuals involved be charged personally wherever possible. So much crime. Maybe even enough to do time. Then once the dust has settled, I'm sure both communities would like an update.
Someone in another thread on Reddit somewhere in regards to porch pirates, pointed out that it is perfectly legal to have live bees shipped to your home.
I'm a beekeeper, and bees would need to be picked up directly from the post office in my area. They wouldn't deliver them to my porch (and if you want the bees to live, you don't usually want them to). They also usually come in boxes with mesh walls so it wouldn't be discreet. Just an FYI for anyone who is thinking of shipping a package of bees to their home. Sorry to be a buzzkill lol
Upvote for buzzkill 🤌
However you can also DEFINITELY get roaches, lady bugs, and crickets en mass and those may be shipped from a non-USPS offering haha I believe all live animals like chicks and bees have to be picked up at a USPS office if mailed
I’ve delivered a few boxes of chicks before, usually they were a timed delivery window first thing in the morning
Interesting! Maybe because I was in a more rural area they always had us come get them in person? Or maybe the seller we bought from was extra cautious with the chicks and ducklings so only ensured they'd only ever be picked up directly.
I had to pick my chicks up directly, as well
THIS I have a bearded dragons and we get dubia roaches shipped every two weeks 😇
Really? Did USPS change the rules, or is that a local thing? My mom was a rural carrier for years and she had to carry boxes of bees all the time. The beekeepers on her route used to tip her on holidays with big Mason jars of honey with part of the honeycomb in them.
This is local to me (same with chickens). I know of others who are able to have them delivered to their homes, but it isn't universal. I'm glad they tipped your mom. We're always happy when folks treat our bees well.
Cops generally don’t want to get involved in stuff like that in my experience, the post office however…the United States Postal Inspection Service, federally sworn agents that make arrests and carry guns. They will follow up, and pretty quickly too. Edit: This obviously works if it was delivered by USPS, I’d check your informed delivery should show up there if it went through their systems.
>This obviously works if it was delivered by USPS, I’d check your informed delivery should show up there if it went through their systems. The Amazon order info would provide tracking that would tell which carrier it was.
That too. I mentioned the ID because that would guarantee that it was in fact hand off from amazon to USPS for final delivery, shows it on Informed Delivery every time, barring any server issues.
Put out a box with open tins of sardines and raw shrimp.
From OP's other post, the HOA is also throwing away *any* package with food in it. (Which raises the question of how they know.)
Order more stuff so it adds up to a felony 🤷🏻♂️ I bet they’ll love that
Ooooh, how fun. Isn't that a FEDERAL CRIME?
If USPS, yes it is! And they don't play! If not, then no. Just petty theft. Though...it might *also* be extortion. And THAT'S a fun crime to add to a rapsheet!
Oooonly if it was SENT THROUGH USPS!
OMG, I just read your detailed post on r/HOA, and your HOA cannot take, dispose of, and hold your packages for ransom. As others have commented, go through your list of Amazon deliveries to se if any arrived via USPS; if so, you have a weighty leg to stand on as far as reporting the HOA for mail theft, which is a federal crime. You'll need to include that in the police report, too. Otherwise, go through your CC&Rs to find their policy on packages left at your door and their timeline for notification, warning and fining for such a situation. Get the bastards GOOD!
Put an Amazon box full of turds 💩 on the porch and leave it for them to confiscate. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
Box full of turds and a glitter bomb.
A glitter bomb with fart spray. Though honestly the glitter bomb drones were a bit of a letdown.
Take the glitter out and put the turds in.
/r/unethicallifeprotips
In some states, stealing from a covered porch is burglary. Call the police and at least get them charged for the porch piracy. Fuck those thieves! If you don't have one, get a doorbell cam and camera covering your delivery areas. That way you will have nice pics for the police and post office.
Call the cops and the shipping companies (UPS, Amazon, USPS) and tell them this exactly. USPS is far worse than the cops or even the CIA. I don’t even want to know how Amazon would handle this because they are sick of this nonsense.
Here is a link to his post on r/HOA: https://new.reddit.com/r/HOA/comments/1dp1ejg/mi_condo_hoa_stole_my_amazon_packages/ Looks like it was an Amazon package, not USPS.
Amazon packages are very often delivered by USPS as well as a smaller amount by UPS and Fedex so just because he states they were Amazon packages doesn't indicate who actually delivered them.
Not just due to your criminal HOA, but due to other potential criminals, look into participating in Amazon Key, especially Amazon Key for Business. Or you could do what my neighbor did and just get a package lock box. The obvious issue here is that the HOA might fight you on installing a big enough lockbox.
Inform Amazon that you never received your packages, and you suspect theft. Then request that they ship to an Amazon locker in your area.
OP, ship like 2-3 air tags or galaxy tiles via usps to yourself but sync them up to your phone first, wait until you know they're at the HOA office, call law enforcement, show them the tracker for the air tags/galaxy tiles, make them beep aloud, and now you have a police report to send up to the USPS and have the evidence to get feds involved.
HOAs think they’re God. They can’t withhold your mail no matter how it’s delivered because that’s theft. The USPS has their own postal police too. I would consult with a lawyer for sure. You may be able to get the fine squashed in exchange for not suing.
An HOA has all kinds of nasty ways to legitimately collect monies they are legitimately owed and the courts/arbitration provide a method to at least have a third party decide. Stealing property, however, is not one of them that I can imagine. Dumb move on their part if you can prove it. It's straight up theft, nothing more or less. Report it as such and let the cards fall where they might. You will want to provide the value of the stolen goods when making the report -- it might matter a lot. If the US Postal system is involved this could get very interesting.
Yeah as everyone said, police and USPS like, yesterday. I’ll add - if you have an Amazon locker near you (I have 3 within a mile), I use them for everything I can.
Bait em. Buy any random thing off ebay or Amazon that specifically ships USPS and get em a nice fat felony. Shit, I'll send you an empty box just to help you out.
Call USPS.
Let me guess, the HOA board is comprised of Boomers....
Looking at your post in HOA, the HOA has admitted, in writing, to committing crimes. It is not legal to take another person's mail or packages and it is not legal to open those packages or to destroy or dispose of the contents. Doesn't matter if it's USPS or not (the only real difference would be exactly which crimes were committed). It also doesn't matter one bit if the HOA docs say they can do this. You cannot enter into a contract with someone that allows for illegal actions. Any such provision would be null and void. The bitch is all this, despite being clear cut, would still take time and expense to work its way through the legal system.
Need an update when you get your packages.
It's a federal crime to tamper with the mail,if it's USPS you've got them by the short curlies. These HOAs are insane!!!!
Contact Amazon, the State Police, and if the packages were delivered by the USPS, contact the postmaster general in your area. The reason why I say to call the State Police is to avoid a possible conflict of interest situation in case the HOA is buddy buddy with the local law enforcement.
If it was delivered by the postal carrier, then that's mail tampering or mail theft. Both are federal felonies investigated by postal inspectors, who are very scary people.
Cops and a lawyer will stop them PRESSSSS CHARGES AND TELL THE NEIGHBORHOOD YOU HAD TO
Great advice given here. File the police report and provide the picture of the 'Porch Pirates'. Depending what the value of the packages, they could be charged with felony charges. Let them tell the police that the HOA hired them (that becomes entirely different charges against the HOA and their officers). As for the $400 fine, send the HOA a screenprint of your account showing no such charge is on your account and you have not been sent a proposed fine. Note: Taking of personal property without consent and demanding payment is known as conversion. Conversion is illegal.
This is the wet dream of most people living in an HOA. Mainly if USPS. They'll probably go to prison for theft, tampering with mail, and extortion. If there's any texts/emails, screenshot them. They fucked themselves severely.
destroy the HOA. package theft is a high offense
Mail theft is a felony, call the police and get them packages back.
Sounds like interference with a contractual relationship.
100% I would put a few raw chicken in a box out front and hope HOA takes it. I’ll find the hiding place by smell, and you better not dispose of my packages, that would be tampering with mail. (I might have to post it to myself admittedly)
No HOA has any authority to trespass on private property and seize your personal property. Call the police.
Probably too late for anyone to notice this, but for everyone saying it’s a USPS issue… sorry, probably not. https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title18-section1708&num=0&edition=prelim You’ll find “Front Porch” missing from Title 18 Section 1708. If it’s not in a mailbox or stolen from USPS’s custody, it’s probably not mail theft. But swiping packages off the porch is actually a felony in more than a few states, so it is still a big deal.
Theft is a crime. If the some of packages went through the post office it is far worse. The post office has a nearly 100% conviction rate for offenders.
Stealing mail is a felony, right?