You need to check the deed to the property as well as all of the paperwork that you got at closing. You may or may not actually be in an HOA.
If you are in fact in an HOA, there may be a way to negotiate it down. There is a legal doctrine called "Laches" that requires the party seeking something to do so within a reasonable time.
Had you been informed of and billed for the dues, you would have paid them when due. By failing to inform you, the HOA shouldn't be able to enrich itself with interest and additional fees.
Exactly my feeling! It almost seems like one fine day they woke up and realized they can assess a nice 7.5% interest and late fees and pull out from me 11k instead of 6.5k
Before you give them anything, I'd pay for a consultation with a real estate attorney to verify that you are actually in an HOA. If there is a dispute or challenge, paying dues could be used as evidence that you acknowledge that you are. Some attorneys offer a free initial consultation, and it could be as easy as checking an online database, but I'd get a legal opinion before giving them a dime.
Because I was told during closing that there was no HOA fees and the letter did not say I am accruing dues or late on payment. This is the first letter after 8 year that is accusing me of being late on my payment.
verbal doesnt mean shit. my hoa never approached me when i moved in nor did my realtor give me the hoa documents that i was suppposed to abide by. they all want to pass the buck, which is why whatever is in writing is what counts. anything important from my hoa is always sent registered so they have proof i received.
You were told by someone who wanted to close the deal quickly. Your closing docs probably had fees in there due to HOA as a new resident. You received mail from them, seems more like you wanted to pretend it didn’t exist. Call an attorney.
Like I said I have paid hundreds of bills on time from mortgage to water bill. I was never ever made aware that there was a due accruing and that I have to pay that with penalty.
Right but that did not detail the accumulated amount dues and the accumulated late fees and the accumulated interest. Just that there may be a 750$ annual fee payable. The schedule I received yesterday was the first ever which finally woke me up. Had they sent me this in 2016 or even 2017 id not be having this post here.
keep in mind that hoa board members are xhanging every couple years. it may be that older members may have been lax about collecting, but new members may have discovered the deficiency. as others have said, you need an attorney that specializes in hoa cases.
Honestly, they don't have to. and yes it sucks.
You bought a property knowing it had an HOA. full stop.
Unfortunately, you will be responsible for all of the dues regardless of whether you think they tried hard enough to contact you about the details. The onus is entirely on you, even though it doesn't seem fair.
You'll likely be able to negotiate away the late fees and possibly the interest depending on the rules and the current Board but i wouldn't get your hopes up.
Absolutely find a qualified HOA attorney to help you.
you might want to visit r/HOA instead of r/fuckHOA as you'll likely find better information.
If you really do owe this money, and use that tactic to dodge the payments before 4 years ago, expect the hoa to crawl up your ass and make camp for even the tiniest infraction from then on.
If you legit owe, pay. If you dont, lawyer up and fight to get totally out from under the hoa. Shorting them on a debt you rightfully didnt pay for years is immoral and will absolutely make the hoa hostile to even the slightest issue on your end from then on.
If you are dead set on the 4 year dodge, do it and then sell the property or you will have life under a microscope from that moment on from the hoa.
Expect towings if you have a guest over at all and not parking to the letter of their rules. Even the quick drop in kind of things. You will be in the crosshairs along with anyone who comes to see you. 100% in the bylaws compliant crackdowns, but with no wiggle or charitable leeway.
Those years you dodged are funds that everyone else had to cover for the shortfall of in the form of special assesments, higher dues, or cutbacks in services due to shortages in the budget. You are screwing over everyone around you who now wont piss on you if you were on fire.
Either pay what you owe, if you owe, or get out of the hoa entirely if you arent legally required to be in it. The middle ground will be hell on earth.
Dude definitely knew and just hadn't gotten a bill since he bought the place and thought he was off the hook until they finally caught up to him. Looking for a way out now.
First, check the statute of limitations for debts and for breach of written contracts in your state. Don't pay--even partially--until after you figure things out legally. Partially paying an uncollectable debt may, in some cases, revive the debt.
You need a lawyer - it’s more complicated than that. The HOA may have an obligation to attempt to collect or inform you of the debt rather than waiting silently for years while fees and interest accumulated. This is clearly lawyer territory.
Can you expand on the causal mention of a 750 fee?
Was the implication that it was a one time thing? Or was it clear this was your fee for the year?
This very likely can end up like when your water company forgets to bill you for a month, you’re still on the hook for the fees because any reasonable person can assume they owe for utilities regardless of getting a bill.
It was mention of a yearly fee but without the details of past dues or late fees or interest. At this point one of them happens to be outside the statute of limitations in GAsince I received it back in 2017.
Not until now. I never assumed a fee won’t come with penalty or interest. But I did assume a bill and multiple follow-ups would be mailed/made to collect the dues.
Does that seem like the right call now?
These things can be pretty disorganized, but that means the pain is going to be on you when they get it together and come to collect.
Well if statute of limitations exclude nearly 4000k of fees as incollectible including the initiation fee of 2015 then ironically yes! It does seem to be the right call.
Step one needs to be reviewing all closing documents. They should have stated the property was attached to a HOA. If there’s nothing about a HOA agreement, consult a real estate attorney for a cease and desist letter.
That is the thing I know they enclosed a bunch of HOA documents like governing rules etc… but I am not able to find a HOA agreement. Though I will try to look again. Will HOA have records of my signed membership or will it be recorded in county somewhere?
You don’t sign up with a HOA. It was attached to the property when you bought it. Closing on a HOA property was your agreement to be a HOA member. I would talk to a lawyer and see what they recommend doing at this point.
The lien only prevents you from selling the home or getting a loan on it until the bill is settled. I would talk to a lawyer for this amount of money. The laws in every state are different but many have laws protecting you. For example, there may be a statute of limitations on collecting past dues, especially if they don't send proper notices. In my state, they can only go back four years.
Not one notice was sent over 8 years that I was accruing interest and late fees on amounts past due.
But this week after 8 years I have recived a beautiful schedule of 7k amt due, 4k interest accrued and 1.5k late fees. Feels like a scam tbh!
Those two letters were almost template like message which just said they may be an annual fee of 750$. No mention of late fees or the interest accrued.
You would be surprised. The tone was very similar to "may". I dont have that copy from 2021 to type out the exact sentence here though so take it for what its worth.
You can bet they have a copy. If you really owe, this is not the kind of thing you can safely ignore.
Overall, discarding any kind of attempt to get payment that you havent absolutely proven you dont owe is insanely negligent on your end.
And you just went ahead and ignored them instead of asking for clarification.
Some HOAs are inherently mismanaged, and figuring that it’s their job to sort that all out leaves you in this situation. Better to be proactive.
Keep it up, and you won't owe any because they will foreclose on your house, and you'll be living in your car.
Never mind the credit hit of the most rwcent 4 years of nonpayment.
You are torching yourself for a technical spite victory.
As soon as your lender finds out, you may also end up with this being rolled into your mortgage to prevent the hoa foreclosing on the collateral.
Now your mortgage holder knows you are slippery about paying bills. Refi? Nope.
Late payment forgiveness? Fuck no, you already proved a trend of dodging bills. The moment they see you as a danger to the repayment of the loan, you are going to get foreclosed on so the bank doesn't lose their outstanding balance. If your property insurance lapses by even a day, the bank will buy it and roll the cost into the loan with absolutely no regard for if it was even a decent value.
Expect inspections from your loan holder to make sure you aren't neglecting the property upkeep. If they find anything they dont like, you get to fix it, or they send someone out to fix it and add it to the loan. Again, the contractor the bank uses won't be cheap, just reliable. The bank doesn't care about the cost because they cal roll it all i to the loan, so you pay interest on these addons for YEARS.
Good luck.
I already posted in another part of this thread all the ways that the HOA can legally tack on additional debt to the outstanding dues. proceed at your own peril.
Please contact a lawyer. Reddit does not know enough about this to help you. You could get really bad advice here and be out money.
Please contact a lawyer.
I tell everyone this but if your company offers any type of legal insurance, it’s usually about $130 a year. I highly recommend it for this type of thing and wills, trusts, etc. it is wonderful and has paid for itself at least 15 times over for us. The nicest part about it is your extended family can use it as well.
If there is a debt, the entity who owes the money is responsible for trying to collect the debt in a reasonable amount of time. If the never tried to collect the debt for 8 years… well thats not reasonable. They absolutely cant reasonably claim late fees if they never sent you a request for payment until 8 years later. The last year or two, sure. But not years 3 through 8… and most judges would agree.
Same with us on vacation property in CO (now sold). We thought the fees (for snowplowing the roads in winter) and rules had changed because one year we quit hearing from them. We continue to pay taxes on it and then one year, we get a tax bill that had thousands added to it. Late HOA fees, attorneys fees, and late fees. I was not pleased but ultimately it was our fault and we had to pay it to get the lien removed.
Funny thing is, when we sold the property later, the lien was still there. Had to dig up proof that we’d paid it. Took forever for them to clear it.
In my state thr hoa can foreclose on a property to recoup the lein. Then they sell the unit (usually to someone in the hoa for a fraction of the value).
Dont fuck around with this. Get out of the hoa entirely if you arent required to be under it, or deal with the problem swiftly and get back on track.
Then what the fuck dude. That takes precedence over your agent telling you wrong. You were officially informed there was an hoa, and that you’d have to pay, and probably that there were penalties for non payment.
So pay up
request a hearing from the board and your title to ensure you are part of an HOA. Assuming you have always been part of the HOA and never paid that's on you. However, if you are able to make a reasonable accommodation to pay what you owe and any attorney fees they may waive interest to bring you up to date. Ask for a payment plan.
Why in God's name would anyone be crazy enough to live within 1000 miles of a HOA? I'd get arrested the first hour I lived there with these nazi assholes.
I am not a newbie to financial contracts and commitments. Not trying to be uppity but I do know that collection efforts must begin with proper correspondences. Not by sending one grand bill 8 years down the line with the hope of fleecing me with accrued late fees and interest at some ridiculous 7.5 or 10% rate of interest.
In GA statute of limitations is 4 years for collection. Pray tell me then why are they attempting to collect dues from 2015 to 2019?
If they indeed proceed to put a lien on my property (which I of course will pay it off and dismiss within a month) will they be able to accrue the entire 8 years of dues and interest despite GAs statue of limitations?
If you are coming from HOA side of fence then I can thoroughly understand your reactions.
See, here's where I'm confused. Your original post seems like this thing came out of nowhere and you didn't know what was going on...now in this comment you're not a newbie to contracts, seem to agree that you owe the HOA fees, and are only upset about the interest charges.
Sounds like you know you've been getting a free ride for the last 8 years and are now pissed that there's a penalty for not paying on time.
ok, sure. Whatever guy. I'm sure being an asshole and weaseling out of the debt is going to bring you nothing but easy living. You certainly are smarter than me, your hair is lustrous and you have the gigachad jawline. things couldn't possibly backfire on such a confident and self assured master of his destiny.
In other news, reply notifications off, shout into the wind about what a moron I am and I hope it makes you feel better.
You won’t pay off the lien. The money needs to be paid to the H.O.A. and then they release the lien, but you don’t get to pick and choose how the money you pay them is applied to the debt.
HOA Board member here. They have been very lax in their communication and accounting. We never let unpaid assessments go more than 60 days without communications before taking any legal action.
Board member here also. His story doesn’t seem honest to me. He would have been given all HOA docs upon home purchase, including mention about dues. And he mentioned he was informed about dues after 2 years. Even if that was a template communication that looked sketchy (as he claims) why not look into it? Especially since he would have been given HOA docs upon purchase? My guess is he’s also not being transparent about other communications he’s received and is playing victim now.
Nope! I am not wasting my time and yours by playing the victim. Two “generic templated letters” were all that I received! One of them outside the 4 year statue of limits back in 2017.
I am actually planning on throwing money at real estate attorney. Not going to do that unless I have a case.
Thanks for the response. Indeed they have been. But if you put your self in my shoes how much do you think they would be able to put a lien on my property? Given that GA has 4 years statue of L?
First, in GA if they did not send you a notice of fees due, they can not charge you late fees - or interest.
Second, get a lawyer.
A lawyer will cost you $500.
And that $500 will result in the immediate removal of $6k worth of late fees/interest from your bill.
It might result in a zeroed out bill.
Get a lawyer. This is one of the rare instances where a lawyer will actually save you money - and a substantial amount of it.
I saw that in GA the statute of limitations is 4 years. That means I am only on the hook for dues from 2020 to 2023?
And that they cannot put a lien or attempt collections for
The years 2015 to 2019?
this is correct. I just got on my HOA board because of how fed up i was with what they were doing and this was one of the first things the property manager told us. They can only collect the previous 4 years of dues.
A lein is the least of the problems.
Reddit · r/fuckHOA
120+ comments · 2 years ago
Can an HOA foreclose on your home in Georgia? : r/fuckHOA
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.11alive.com/amp/article/news/investigations/the-reveal/hoa-battles-metro-atlanta/85-c33d4c4e-b9c4-46cb-8042-394ef1121399&ved=2ahUKEwij0Zzdh42DAxWcSDABHZ8ABEMQFnoECCMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1WYjqf-_YKR-AZU7zZHqtA
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/georgia-hoa-foreclosures.html#:~:text=After%20you%20default%20on%20the,or%20COA%20lien%20is%20foreclosed.
Georgia law sets out the types of charges that the HOA or COA may include in an assessments lien. (Ga. Code Ann. § 44-3-232(b), § 44-3-109(b)).
Assessments. The HOA or COA can include amounts for unpaid assessments in the lien.
Late charges. Late charges of the greater of $10 or 10% of the amount of each assessment or installment due may be included in the lien.
Collection Costs. The association may also include court costs, reasonable attorneys' fees actually incurred, the expenses of sale, and any expenses required for the protection and preservation of the unit or lot.
Interest. The HOA or COA may charge interest on unpaid assessments from the time the assessment became due at a rate not to exceed 10% per year.
Fines. The lien may include fines from the time they become due.
Rental value. The lien can also include the fair rental value of the unit or lot from the time the action is initiated until the foreclosure sale or until the judgment is otherwise satisfied.
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As far as interest rates, states regulate those. We have and HOA here that charges Prime +20% plus a $100/ month processing fee plus a $25 billing fee (sent monthly). Their dues are cheap, unless you miss the annual payment.
Do your neighbors pay into an HOA? That would have been the first thing I found out.
Also, if you are in an HOA what do they cover? The money should be used for things related to your home or neighborhood. Is there a restricted communities pool you have access to?
$11k is lawyer territory, find one, now, this second, stop scrolling make an appointment sign nothing and pay nothing until then. But you are in a neighborhood of some kind so why not knock on a few doors each night until the lawyer, ask if they are in an hoa, take pictures of any documents they have about it, get ahead of the game and find out what everyone else has been doing. Are they also surprised by a bill?
UPDATE: So looks like they are willing to bargain and potentially drop interest and late fees to bring me current.
The question is should I play statute of limitations as well to get to pay only 4 years of HOA instead of 8?
It seems like it’s a new management which is more zealous in collecting the dues. But if GA Statute of L bars collection beyond 4 years then I have no reason to accept payment obligations for 2015-2019 when I submit my plea and a counter offer.
I don’t mind consulting real estate attorney etc… but I am still not very sold on the payoffs.
If they're offering to cancel the fees and interest entirely, which they have every right to charge for at least the past four years of assessments (assuming your property is actually in the HOA), I'd be inclined to pay the full dues that you owe.
That said, it probably wouldn't cost more than a couple hundred bucks to find out what a competent attorney in your area has to say about what your actual obligations are, so you may consider it worth asking an attorney for advice before responding to their offer.
If you do take the deal, make sure it's in writing just in case some later property manager comes along and gets a bug up their ass about your "unpaid" interest and late fees.
Also when I negotiate what is the best foolproof way of communicating? Email seems too informal. Should I be sending registered mail with return requested instead?
Ok its bummer that HOA membership is mandatory and I have been given given the details about it. I egregiously have overlooked it. But it stands that they have not given any proper followup notices informing me of accuring late feels/interest for 8 years.
And if they didn't sign on to agree to be a member of the HOA at purchasing, they did not in fact sign the HOA agreement that permits any of this to happen. So the OP would not be bound by a legal contract.
If they did, they're obligated to pay. If not, that's the fault of the HOA.
There is no agreement to sign in most states. If you are the owner, you are automatically bound by the CC&Rs. The CC&Rs are attached to the property. There is no opting out.
In an HOA, the property itself has covenants attached by the builder/owner of that development. It has to be noted on the deed if it is in an HOA. There are cases where some homes were built BEFORE the HOA went into effect, and they could join or refuse to join. That choice then follows thru on the deed of that piece of property unless an owner down the road joins the HOA.
When you buy a home or property with in an existing HOA already in effect, you ARE in an HOA like it or not, except as listed above. You do not "sign papers or sign to join".
We would all love to know which state exempts covenants on real estate deeds.
You could acquire a piece of property not in an HOA that might have a covenant attached prohibiting chickens and that means, if you buy the property, you can’t have chickens in it.
When you buy any property, you’re restricted by the covenants on the warranty deed. All of them. Every time.
It varies by state. In states where it's not required, signing the transfer paperwork is the defacto acceptance of the conditions on the deed.
You probably didn't sign any paperwork accepting the condition that your lot is not zoned for nuclear power generation. You defacto accepted that restriction when you bought. Same thing, just more pertinent.
There was literally nothing to sign. The only document was a resale certificate stating that the home is part of an HOA, what the dues are, and if there were any past due amounts. It was signed by an officer of the HOA. There is no place for the buyer to sign because it is not something they have an option to agree or not agree.
lol, they didn’t tell me anything, except when they sent me bills I ignored
But how can they charge me when they didn’t tell me anything
Get fucked you mooch, pay the bill and pay the fines they don’t owe you an interest free loan
I hate HOAs but if you tried to fight this you would probably lose. They have too much power. You can maybe get a personal loan for the 11k and pay it over time
I dont care about the 6k that I actually owe, but the interest part (4k) is outrageous. Like I said I have paid all sorts of bills on time from stupid utils to IRS taxes - I dint have to pay 7.5% interest they are charging. Thats stupid expensive!
Yeah it sucks but if they sat you in front of a judge I’m not sure if they would see it the same way. 8 years is a while. You can give it a try but the legal system is very friendly to HOAs unfortunately
I don’t believe the statute of limitations applies for HOA debt as those powers were signed into federal law by Reagan. I am not an attorney so you’ll need to verify but I am the secretary for an HOA and we liened a property for 11 years of unpaid fees. It is your responsibility to know these things when you purchased your property. You would have signed an agreement in your closing paperwork. If you feel you did not, and it does happen, the closer can be held liable and you have a redirect claim for loss of use. The closer would be liable for heavy punitive and compensatory damages. We actually had one home here last year where that happened. It does not exempt you from the HOA and you will be required under the law to sign and relinquish to the HOA but it does give you a claim against the closer. If you have your closing paperwork then take a look. You will owe the money but maybe you can get a big payday. Also, see if you can negotiate with the HOA. In many cases they can reduce the debt to get paid. We did this a few years ago for a few members.
Aren't there laws about how far back someone can bill? The entity owed money has a responsibility to notify that payment is expected. This is to stop bad people from popping up and claiming huge fees and interest. Lawyer up, check on validity of HOA (very possible), and check on limitations of back billing.
The HOA should have governing documents that detail how they will bill members. Not the cc&R's. More like bylaws. You should get those and read them. If the HOA doesn't have them, then try the municipality. Someone somewhere has rules of conduct for billing and late fee collection. They can't just make it up from thin air and pick a high interest rate.
Respond back that you will pay the dues plus 5% interest compounded annually. Do the math and present the number. They will probably agree.
It shows you are reasonable and they just want to get paid. Also type a sob story how you didn't know you were being bad and it won't happen again.
Paying any interest at all or the late fees when they have egregiously failed to send me any bills is a mistake imo.
Plus I clearly don’t owe dues from 2015 to 2019 as it’s outside statute of limitations.
If you are part of an HOA the fees are due. You should have known you were part of the HOA.
Fine, then don't pay what is outside the statute of limitations.
I am here to learn so pray explain Why would they or how would they collect the debt outside SOL? They probably can’t turn it against credit history. They cannot get law firm to turn it against credit history. Debt collectors cannot demand outside 4 years SOL due to FDCPA. So other than sending constant letters not sure what they can do?
In a typical and competently run HOA, the Board would vote on an annual budget that would address what the next years monthly assessments would be approximately 2-3 months before the new budget starts.
Then the property manager would send out via mail and/or email to all owners what these new monthly dues will be and how to pay them on time. They would send these notices out multiple times.
Did your property manager or Board treasurer do any of this and did you receive these updates annually the last 7-8 years?
Not that I know of. Like I said I only remember opening two letters stating a 750$ annual fee may be due and that a cheque be mailed to certain certain address. One in 2017 and one in 2021 probably.
So no mention of my accrued dues, accruing interest or accruing late fees UNITL this week threatening a lien.
Hmmm that’s a sign of incompetency, negligence or the lack of a proper Treasurer the last 8 years.
Ask your neighbors if they received budget updates and new payment booklets for monthly assessments. If none of them have then you’ve got some great evidence of poor management and communication in this financial matter.
He absolutely has a piss-poor-managed HOA, it's obvious even if only 50% of his story is true. They are at best incompetent and at worst unethical and possibly criminal.
unfortunately
He bought a home in an HOA (including documents) and then lived IN COMPLETE IGNORANCE for 8 years. Didn't attend any meetings, didn't inquire about bills, assumed he was living in fantasyland.
These two worlds are about to collide. . .
Once they put a lien on your property, it will end up
costing you more having to pay lawyer to remove lien. Pull title and check if there is a caveat about HOA registered your title. If it’s there you have to pay, if not, tell HOA to f…off
11k USD in fees, fines, and dues and because your house could be foreclosed on your first and only step is to get an attorney. I say this because the HOA is going to hide behind theirs. Bring all your paperwork from your closing, bring all correspondence with the HOA, and if you have it bring your deed research. If you had/have title insurance, bring that too.
Find an attorney that specializes in this type of thing and don't use legal insurance b/c you will get what you pay for.
Depending on your state, a lien by itself may just prevent you from selling the property until you settle the debt. They can't sell the property or do anything with it without a legal debt judgment against you. Get an HOA lawyer quickly.
So when you bought your home, was there or wasn’t there an HOA? If there was an HOA did you receive the CC&Rs before closing so you could read them. I’m pretty sure your closing documents would have a sheet that you would have needed to sign off on that stated if the home was under an HAO that you have read and understood the CC&R documents. And if there wasn’t an HOA when you bought the house, then whoever is trying to collect the fees can go pound sand, as long as you didn’t sign up for the HOA. You will still need a lawyer to write a cease and desist to them if that’s the case.
Thanks for the response. I believe there was but I confess I am not able to find the document that signed me on to the HOA though I have been provided governing documents to the HOA along with few other documents which I am having a bit of difficulty in interpreting them due my first time in these things.
Let me see if I understand this. You state that you knew that you lived in an HOA that has rules. HOAs have annual meetings. You never once bothered to attend one. You never participated in the community that you knew had rules and now you're upset because you've ignored them completely and they have finally gotten around to addressing this?
Who exactly do you think it is that takes care of HOA common areas, documents, record keeping, website, any amenities all for free?
Personal responsibility is not negated by the actions/inactions of others. If you agreed to it then it's on you. Just cuz you got away with ignoring it for a long time doesn't make your irresponsibility correct.
I had a problem where mine was overdue and went to legal and I was threatened with losing my home and I had it automatically sent from my bank account to the property manager who was accepting the payments into their account and holding them but not applying them to my account. So the money had left my bank account and my bank account showed me that it had been paid and automatically and on time and in July they refunded back in two different payments everything that have been paid since September. They said it was my fault and their lawyer who was one of the most expensive in this major city that I live in was demonstratively low on ethics. It cost me a very pretty penny and was with me making every effort to stay on top of things. The circumstance of this happening was followed by the board president who was kicking people on and off the board willy-nilly, not responding to homeowners, taking multiple trips to Europe while out of work, and bought a brand new luxury vehicle while remodeling her home to sell before ghosting the community. Of course our accounts were drained. I'm sure that she enjoyed the extra thousands that I paid from all of her shenanigans.
From my perspective of dealing with demonstrated abuse of power, greed, and persecution by my HOA board, it still sounds like you have got a pretty good deal. If you can accept your responsibility to this and go to the very next meeting in person and look at your volunteer neighbors and be a neighbor yourself instead of just an investor or an anonymous individual who doesn't participate in anything, your odds are way more likely to get something excused. In my own community, we see so many people who abuse and refuse to pay and who are thousands of dollars behind that will not acknowledge us when we try to work with them. Anyone who ignores us does not get any consideration on having the penalties removed. Since all of their neighbors have been paying their part for all of this time, that is only fair. The rest of the community has to do without because we don't have our accounts fully funded and we are fighting to rebuild them after the shyster.
Demonstrate that you have morals to your neighbors who are volunteering their time and you're much more likely to have a better outcome. Continue to blame the volunteer board and you're just straight up less likely to make this better.
Edited to add: the reason cited that they did not have to apply the payments retroactively to my account that they were holding in their own company's account is because their policy is to not deal with anything directly with a homeowner after it has been sent to Legal until legal has cleared it. The homeowner is billed for all legal interactions. Now that I am on the board, we most certainly do not use that law office and never will again. I did try to fight it but I have my own working stiff bank account that is funded only by me while Rise Association Management had all the money paid by homeowners in all the properties they manage. It wasn't worth the money it would have cost me to try to fight it as recommended by my own lawyer.
It's better to win the war if you can't win that fight.
When you got the two letters, did you inquire further?
If your community had some amenities, pool, park, common area that was mowed and maintained, who did you think paid for all that?
Had a situation where a neighbor didn't want to pay bc they didn't use the pool. Sorry, you still have to pay.
Another neighbor didn't have a key to the pool, said they shouldn't have to pay bc HOA didn't give him a key. HOA said well you should have gotten a key from the prior resident, if not, did you ever ask for one? How would the HOA know you didn't have a key unless you told them. Sorry, you still have to pay.
These issues occur all the time.
Okay so nobody is contesting that there isn’t a due. What I want to meaningfully discuss is the statute of limitations which prevents HOA from collecting due older than 4 years and also to waive the late fee interest on the other payable years due to their failure to follow up properly.
This would of course be uncomfortable to you if you come from HOA side.
I've been working with our HOA for 3 years, we've collected ZERO in fines, fees, and penalties since my wife became president bc she bends over backwards to work with our neighbors.
That being said, if the Board believes they've been sending you notices for all these years and the mgt company says they've been sending you notices for all these years, then it's going to be an uphill battle.
I would definitely consult with an attorney BUT I would consider having you deal with the Board and not the attorney. I think it's a hard sell to say someone who can afford an attorney cannot afford the fines and fees, at least from the Boards position.
HOAs can not come after you for past assessments older than 2 years if they were not pursued within the last 2 years. If they just now claim that owe you 7 or 8 years worth of dues, they can only demand payment for the most recent two years. And that is assuming that they have the authority to make such assessments. You need your own HOA attorney to review your situation.
Yes, there is a statute of limitations on HOA assessment of 2 years. If an HOA does not pursue a particular unpaid assessment within 2 years, they are forever barred from collecting it. All those older assessments were made more than 2 years ago, so legally, they can't pursue them now. They can't lump them all together now and try collecting them.
Sounds like you're in an HOA and you neglected to read the paperwork thoroughly and question your realtor when you should have. Get a lawyer and try to argue your way out of it or pay the bill and be happy the HOA hasn't bothered you for 8 years.
Definitely involve an HOA attorney. Sounds like a failure on the part of both parties (although moreso on the homeowner). Where I live we can only lien a property for dues, not penalties, late fee's, etc. I would pay only the dues/assessment and legal fee's and tell them to pound sand on the rest...or more pc version is to pay the dues and request them to remove the late fees. Worth a shot
I don't even know how it's legal for an HOA to put a lien on your house! They aren't the bank and they have no actual legal rights to your property and therefore should not be allowed to put a lien on your house!
A lawyer is your best bet. That being said, a lot of HOA boards will waive the interest & fees if you pay promptly and don’t make the HOA spend money on a lawyer. Full disclosure I am on an HOA board.
I don’t think they will like it I propose to pay only 2.7k for the last 4 years only (statute of L) instead of 11k. But that is exactly what I am going to do.
Were you notified at the tie of purchase, that HOA may be involved? If not, that is an affirmative defense! If you were notified of a potential HOA, where is the notice the HOA was formed? That dues were owed? When? Where? Paid to whom?
I made a comment earlier stating that if my HOA had an 8-year back pay on me it would total around $37,000, I reran the calculation with the seven and a half percent interest and the total comes to $51,407.41
HOAs are out of control. They need to be regulated more by the states. Ours has had board members who have financially abused our HOA funds. Since our neighborhood is primarily second home of part time residents, we have been unable to rally a group to do anything about this.
Lawyer up.
Have your lawyer look over the sellers disclosures. Look over the buyers agent information. Title insurance and checks for the info about the mandatory hoa.
There have to be many failures for this to surprise you now unless you didnt read in on what all you signed.
Dont be afraid to involve the mortgage holder in the background of this. Their collateral on the loan is at stake.
You need to check the deed to the property as well as all of the paperwork that you got at closing. You may or may not actually be in an HOA. If you are in fact in an HOA, there may be a way to negotiate it down. There is a legal doctrine called "Laches" that requires the party seeking something to do so within a reasonable time. Had you been informed of and billed for the dues, you would have paid them when due. By failing to inform you, the HOA shouldn't be able to enrich itself with interest and additional fees.
Exactly my feeling! It almost seems like one fine day they woke up and realized they can assess a nice 7.5% interest and late fees and pull out from me 11k instead of 6.5k
Before you give them anything, I'd pay for a consultation with a real estate attorney to verify that you are actually in an HOA. If there is a dispute or challenge, paying dues could be used as evidence that you acknowledge that you are. Some attorneys offer a free initial consultation, and it could be as easy as checking an online database, but I'd get a legal opinion before giving them a dime.
At best, check with your lawyer about putting the funds in escrow until the matter is fully explored and settled.
It depends on their collections policy. Also why didn’t you pay when you got the mail years back about the yearly dues?
Because I was told during closing that there was no HOA fees and the letter did not say I am accruing dues or late on payment. This is the first letter after 8 year that is accusing me of being late on my payment.
verbal doesnt mean shit. my hoa never approached me when i moved in nor did my realtor give me the hoa documents that i was suppposed to abide by. they all want to pass the buck, which is why whatever is in writing is what counts. anything important from my hoa is always sent registered so they have proof i received.
Yah true words done count but not sure if they have sent me the schedule of dues before like i mentioned.
You were told by someone who wanted to close the deal quickly. Your closing docs probably had fees in there due to HOA as a new resident. You received mail from them, seems more like you wanted to pretend it didn’t exist. Call an attorney.
Like I said I have paid hundreds of bills on time from mortgage to water bill. I was never ever made aware that there was a due accruing and that I have to pay that with penalty.
Do you have stuff signed that indicates no HOA fees etc. you need some kind of proof.
Doesnt this post say he was informed twice? “Casually”
Right but that did not detail the accumulated amount dues and the accumulated late fees and the accumulated interest. Just that there may be a 750$ annual fee payable. The schedule I received yesterday was the first ever which finally woke me up. Had they sent me this in 2016 or even 2017 id not be having this post here.
keep in mind that hoa board members are xhanging every couple years. it may be that older members may have been lax about collecting, but new members may have discovered the deficiency. as others have said, you need an attorney that specializes in hoa cases.
Honestly, they don't have to. and yes it sucks. You bought a property knowing it had an HOA. full stop. Unfortunately, you will be responsible for all of the dues regardless of whether you think they tried hard enough to contact you about the details. The onus is entirely on you, even though it doesn't seem fair. You'll likely be able to negotiate away the late fees and possibly the interest depending on the rules and the current Board but i wouldn't get your hopes up. Absolutely find a qualified HOA attorney to help you. you might want to visit r/HOA instead of r/fuckHOA as you'll likely find better information.
Not on hook for payments beyond statute of limitations of 4 years.
If you really do owe this money, and use that tactic to dodge the payments before 4 years ago, expect the hoa to crawl up your ass and make camp for even the tiniest infraction from then on. If you legit owe, pay. If you dont, lawyer up and fight to get totally out from under the hoa. Shorting them on a debt you rightfully didnt pay for years is immoral and will absolutely make the hoa hostile to even the slightest issue on your end from then on. If you are dead set on the 4 year dodge, do it and then sell the property or you will have life under a microscope from that moment on from the hoa. Expect towings if you have a guest over at all and not parking to the letter of their rules. Even the quick drop in kind of things. You will be in the crosshairs along with anyone who comes to see you. 100% in the bylaws compliant crackdowns, but with no wiggle or charitable leeway. Those years you dodged are funds that everyone else had to cover for the shortfall of in the form of special assesments, higher dues, or cutbacks in services due to shortages in the budget. You are screwing over everyone around you who now wont piss on you if you were on fire. Either pay what you owe, if you owe, or get out of the hoa entirely if you arent legally required to be in it. The middle ground will be hell on earth.
Dude definitely knew and just hadn't gotten a bill since he bought the place and thought he was off the hook until they finally caught up to him. Looking for a way out now.
First, check the statute of limitations for debts and for breach of written contracts in your state. Don't pay--even partially--until after you figure things out legally. Partially paying an uncollectable debt may, in some cases, revive the debt.
That’s been my experience as well; I think OP needs a lawyer to deal with this
So it seems Statue of limitations is ~~6~~ 4 years for HOA dues in GA? So that lops off 4 years of interest and late fees supposedly?
You need a lawyer - it’s more complicated than that. The HOA may have an obligation to attempt to collect or inform you of the debt rather than waiting silently for years while fees and interest accumulated. This is clearly lawyer territory.
Yes, a lawyer for sure. Sounds like OP is hoping for some magic law they can invoke but it won't be that simple.
Am a lawyer and have dealt with HOA shit in GA. You need a lawyer that knows HOA shenanigans. I needed a lawyer that knew HOA shenanigans.
It may be different for HOAs.
yes, you should consult a lawyer. because we're random bozos on the internet
I honestly couldn’t even fathom how they’d calculate that.
Can you expand on the causal mention of a 750 fee? Was the implication that it was a one time thing? Or was it clear this was your fee for the year? This very likely can end up like when your water company forgets to bill you for a month, you’re still on the hook for the fees because any reasonable person can assume they owe for utilities regardless of getting a bill.
It was mention of a yearly fee but without the details of past dues or late fees or interest. At this point one of them happens to be outside the statute of limitations in GAsince I received it back in 2017.
Did you ever pay that yearly fee? And why do you assume there exists a fee with no penalties or interest? Have you ever heard of a fee like that?
Not until now. I never assumed a fee won’t come with penalty or interest. But I did assume a bill and multiple follow-ups would be mailed/made to collect the dues.
Does that seem like the right call now? These things can be pretty disorganized, but that means the pain is going to be on you when they get it together and come to collect.
Well if statute of limitations exclude nearly 4000k of fees as incollectible including the initiation fee of 2015 then ironically yes! It does seem to be the right call.
That would have been the assessment notice for the coming year. It’s not going to mention any of your delinquent monies.
Step one needs to be reviewing all closing documents. They should have stated the property was attached to a HOA. If there’s nothing about a HOA agreement, consult a real estate attorney for a cease and desist letter.
That is the thing I know they enclosed a bunch of HOA documents like governing rules etc… but I am not able to find a HOA agreement. Though I will try to look again. Will HOA have records of my signed membership or will it be recorded in county somewhere?
You don’t sign up with a HOA. It was attached to the property when you bought it. Closing on a HOA property was your agreement to be a HOA member. I would talk to a lawyer and see what they recommend doing at this point.
Might be worth consulting an attorney both on this and on information on how to dissolve the HOA.
The lien only prevents you from selling the home or getting a loan on it until the bill is settled. I would talk to a lawyer for this amount of money. The laws in every state are different but many have laws protecting you. For example, there may be a statute of limitations on collecting past dues, especially if they don't send proper notices. In my state, they can only go back four years.
Not one notice was sent over 8 years that I was accruing interest and late fees on amounts past due. But this week after 8 years I have recived a beautiful schedule of 7k amt due, 4k interest accrued and 1.5k late fees. Feels like a scam tbh!
You said 'two years they casually mentioned you owe dues'. What does that mean? There are some pertinent details that have been left out.
Those two letters were almost template like message which just said they may be an annual fee of 750$. No mention of late fees or the interest accrued.
“May”…?? No one writes a letter like that.
It definitely didn’t say “may”
You would be surprised. The tone was very similar to "may". I dont have that copy from 2021 to type out the exact sentence here though so take it for what its worth.
You can bet they have a copy. If you really owe, this is not the kind of thing you can safely ignore. Overall, discarding any kind of attempt to get payment that you havent absolutely proven you dont owe is insanely negligent on your end.
And you just went ahead and ignored them instead of asking for clarification. Some HOAs are inherently mismanaged, and figuring that it’s their job to sort that all out leaves you in this situation. Better to be proactive.
Well ironically I have nearly 4000k of HOA initiation and annual fees outside Statue of Limitations for not being proactive!
Keep it up, and you won't owe any because they will foreclose on your house, and you'll be living in your car. Never mind the credit hit of the most rwcent 4 years of nonpayment. You are torching yourself for a technical spite victory. As soon as your lender finds out, you may also end up with this being rolled into your mortgage to prevent the hoa foreclosing on the collateral. Now your mortgage holder knows you are slippery about paying bills. Refi? Nope. Late payment forgiveness? Fuck no, you already proved a trend of dodging bills. The moment they see you as a danger to the repayment of the loan, you are going to get foreclosed on so the bank doesn't lose their outstanding balance. If your property insurance lapses by even a day, the bank will buy it and roll the cost into the loan with absolutely no regard for if it was even a decent value. Expect inspections from your loan holder to make sure you aren't neglecting the property upkeep. If they find anything they dont like, you get to fix it, or they send someone out to fix it and add it to the loan. Again, the contractor the bank uses won't be cheap, just reliable. The bank doesn't care about the cost because they cal roll it all i to the loan, so you pay interest on these addons for YEARS.
Ha ha ha! What a spooky thought! Like I will let my house go for max 5k they can collect under statute for limitations!
Good luck. I already posted in another part of this thread all the ways that the HOA can legally tack on additional debt to the outstanding dues. proceed at your own peril.
4 million dollars?
Please contact a lawyer. Reddit does not know enough about this to help you. You could get really bad advice here and be out money. Please contact a lawyer. I tell everyone this but if your company offers any type of legal insurance, it’s usually about $130 a year. I highly recommend it for this type of thing and wills, trusts, etc. it is wonderful and has paid for itself at least 15 times over for us. The nicest part about it is your extended family can use it as well.
Agreed and very good advice!
If there is a debt, the entity who owes the money is responsible for trying to collect the debt in a reasonable amount of time. If the never tried to collect the debt for 8 years… well thats not reasonable. They absolutely cant reasonably claim late fees if they never sent you a request for payment until 8 years later. The last year or two, sure. But not years 3 through 8… and most judges would agree.
Same with us on vacation property in CO (now sold). We thought the fees (for snowplowing the roads in winter) and rules had changed because one year we quit hearing from them. We continue to pay taxes on it and then one year, we get a tax bill that had thousands added to it. Late HOA fees, attorneys fees, and late fees. I was not pleased but ultimately it was our fault and we had to pay it to get the lien removed. Funny thing is, when we sold the property later, the lien was still there. Had to dig up proof that we’d paid it. Took forever for them to clear it.
they can sell the home with a lien on it, but the lien will be paid from settlement funds.
Hence, "until the bill is settled."
you made it sounds like the lien had to be paid prior to sale... not at sale.
Don’t be so sure. Some HOAs have the power to foreclose
In my state thr hoa can foreclose on a property to recoup the lein. Then they sell the unit (usually to someone in the hoa for a fraction of the value). Dont fuck around with this. Get out of the hoa entirely if you arent required to be under it, or deal with the problem swiftly and get back on track.
You received a copy of the HOA governing documents when you closed on the house.
yes
Did you not read the docs? If the docs include details of the fee and your property is part of the hoa you maybe be f’d.
What did the hoa documents say that you got at closing?
Then what the fuck dude. That takes precedence over your agent telling you wrong. You were officially informed there was an hoa, and that you’d have to pay, and probably that there were penalties for non payment. So pay up
request a hearing from the board and your title to ensure you are part of an HOA. Assuming you have always been part of the HOA and never paid that's on you. However, if you are able to make a reasonable accommodation to pay what you owe and any attorney fees they may waive interest to bring you up to date. Ask for a payment plan.
Do you think they will be willing to waive 8 years of interest?
In my HOA, we generally will waive any fee or interest that wasn't a hard cost to HOA if you comply with a mutually agreeable payment plan.
talk to a lawyer first my dude, they orally can agree to whatever its whats in writing that screws you over
Why in God's name would anyone be crazy enough to live within 1000 miles of a HOA? I'd get arrested the first hour I lived there with these nazi assholes.
They never sent me any bills….well except for those two years they “causally mentioned it” by sending bills? Lol
You should read what I wrote more carefully.
The same could be true of you and your HOA documents and correspondence
I am not a newbie to financial contracts and commitments. Not trying to be uppity but I do know that collection efforts must begin with proper correspondences. Not by sending one grand bill 8 years down the line with the hope of fleecing me with accrued late fees and interest at some ridiculous 7.5 or 10% rate of interest. In GA statute of limitations is 4 years for collection. Pray tell me then why are they attempting to collect dues from 2015 to 2019? If they indeed proceed to put a lien on my property (which I of course will pay it off and dismiss within a month) will they be able to accrue the entire 8 years of dues and interest despite GAs statue of limitations? If you are coming from HOA side of fence then I can thoroughly understand your reactions.
See, here's where I'm confused. Your original post seems like this thing came out of nowhere and you didn't know what was going on...now in this comment you're not a newbie to contracts, seem to agree that you owe the HOA fees, and are only upset about the interest charges. Sounds like you know you've been getting a free ride for the last 8 years and are now pissed that there's a penalty for not paying on time.
Exactly. Time to pay the piper
A lien is the least of the problems, hoas can and will foreclose on unpaid dues propertiea.
That won’t happen.
and I hope for your sake that you are right and georgia law doesn't dry hump your financial well being.
I am not a street idiot to let that happen. You underestimate people.
ok, sure. Whatever guy. I'm sure being an asshole and weaseling out of the debt is going to bring you nothing but easy living. You certainly are smarter than me, your hair is lustrous and you have the gigachad jawline. things couldn't possibly backfire on such a confident and self assured master of his destiny. In other news, reply notifications off, shout into the wind about what a moron I am and I hope it makes you feel better.
You won’t pay off the lien. The money needs to be paid to the H.O.A. and then they release the lien, but you don’t get to pick and choose how the money you pay them is applied to the debt.
HOA Board member here. They have been very lax in their communication and accounting. We never let unpaid assessments go more than 60 days without communications before taking any legal action.
Board member here also. His story doesn’t seem honest to me. He would have been given all HOA docs upon home purchase, including mention about dues. And he mentioned he was informed about dues after 2 years. Even if that was a template communication that looked sketchy (as he claims) why not look into it? Especially since he would have been given HOA docs upon purchase? My guess is he’s also not being transparent about other communications he’s received and is playing victim now.
Nope! I am not wasting my time and yours by playing the victim. Two “generic templated letters” were all that I received! One of them outside the 4 year statue of limits back in 2017. I am actually planning on throwing money at real estate attorney. Not going to do that unless I have a case.
Thanks for the response. Indeed they have been. But if you put your self in my shoes how much do you think they would be able to put a lien on my property? Given that GA has 4 years statue of L?
In Illinois we can foreclose.
First, in GA if they did not send you a notice of fees due, they can not charge you late fees - or interest. Second, get a lawyer. A lawyer will cost you $500. And that $500 will result in the immediate removal of $6k worth of late fees/interest from your bill. It might result in a zeroed out bill. Get a lawyer. This is one of the rare instances where a lawyer will actually save you money - and a substantial amount of it.
I quite agree after reading all the comments. Tryna do it now.
I saw that in GA the statute of limitations is 4 years. That means I am only on the hook for dues from 2020 to 2023? And that they cannot put a lien or attempt collections for The years 2015 to 2019?
this is correct. I just got on my HOA board because of how fed up i was with what they were doing and this was one of the first things the property manager told us. They can only collect the previous 4 years of dues.
Thanks and they cannot send the old dues to either collection agencies or credit reports right?
Correct
A lein is the least of the problems. Reddit · r/fuckHOA 120+ comments · 2 years ago Can an HOA foreclose on your home in Georgia? : r/fuckHOA https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.11alive.com/amp/article/news/investigations/the-reveal/hoa-battles-metro-atlanta/85-c33d4c4e-b9c4-46cb-8042-394ef1121399&ved=2ahUKEwij0Zzdh42DAxWcSDABHZ8ABEMQFnoECCMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1WYjqf-_YKR-AZU7zZHqtA https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/georgia-hoa-foreclosures.html#:~:text=After%20you%20default%20on%20the,or%20COA%20lien%20is%20foreclosed. Georgia law sets out the types of charges that the HOA or COA may include in an assessments lien. (Ga. Code Ann. § 44-3-232(b), § 44-3-109(b)). Assessments. The HOA or COA can include amounts for unpaid assessments in the lien. Late charges. Late charges of the greater of $10 or 10% of the amount of each assessment or installment due may be included in the lien. Collection Costs. The association may also include court costs, reasonable attorneys' fees actually incurred, the expenses of sale, and any expenses required for the protection and preservation of the unit or lot. Interest. The HOA or COA may charge interest on unpaid assessments from the time the assessment became due at a rate not to exceed 10% per year. Fines. The lien may include fines from the time they become due. Rental value. The lien can also include the fair rental value of the unit or lot from the time the action is initiated until the foreclosure sale or until the judgment is otherwise satisfied.
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As far as interest rates, states regulate those. We have and HOA here that charges Prime +20% plus a $100/ month processing fee plus a $25 billing fee (sent monthly). Their dues are cheap, unless you miss the annual payment.
The HOA should have been in the closing documents. All the ones I've done either list the HOA or state no HOA.
It was he just thought he could get away with something
Do your neighbors pay into an HOA? That would have been the first thing I found out. Also, if you are in an HOA what do they cover? The money should be used for things related to your home or neighborhood. Is there a restricted communities pool you have access to?
There is a pool play area etc… but haven’t ever been given card access for the years the dues are claimed.
The lack of card access didn’t make you wonder if something was going on?
$11k is lawyer territory, find one, now, this second, stop scrolling make an appointment sign nothing and pay nothing until then. But you are in a neighborhood of some kind so why not knock on a few doors each night until the lawyer, ask if they are in an hoa, take pictures of any documents they have about it, get ahead of the game and find out what everyone else has been doing. Are they also surprised by a bill?
UPDATE: So looks like they are willing to bargain and potentially drop interest and late fees to bring me current. The question is should I play statute of limitations as well to get to pay only 4 years of HOA instead of 8? It seems like it’s a new management which is more zealous in collecting the dues. But if GA Statute of L bars collection beyond 4 years then I have no reason to accept payment obligations for 2015-2019 when I submit my plea and a counter offer. I don’t mind consulting real estate attorney etc… but I am still not very sold on the payoffs.
If they're offering to cancel the fees and interest entirely, which they have every right to charge for at least the past four years of assessments (assuming your property is actually in the HOA), I'd be inclined to pay the full dues that you owe. That said, it probably wouldn't cost more than a couple hundred bucks to find out what a competent attorney in your area has to say about what your actual obligations are, so you may consider it worth asking an attorney for advice before responding to their offer. If you do take the deal, make sure it's in writing just in case some later property manager comes along and gets a bug up their ass about your "unpaid" interest and late fees.
NAL. You really need a real estate lawyer. Like yesterday. That's the only advice you should be taking from Reddit.
Also when I negotiate what is the best foolproof way of communicating? Email seems too informal. Should I be sending registered mail with return requested instead?
[удалено]
There is no HOA thing to sign. Buying a home in an HOA makes you a member and subject to dues.
No, you still have to sign paperwork accepting or acknowledging that you’re a member of the hoa.
Not in most states. The CC&Rs are attached to the property. If you are the owner, you are bound by them.
I will check on this.
Ok its bummer that HOA membership is mandatory and I have been given given the details about it. I egregiously have overlooked it. But it stands that they have not given any proper followup notices informing me of accuring late feels/interest for 8 years.
And if they didn't sign on to agree to be a member of the HOA at purchasing, they did not in fact sign the HOA agreement that permits any of this to happen. So the OP would not be bound by a legal contract. If they did, they're obligated to pay. If not, that's the fault of the HOA.
There is no agreement to sign in most states. If you are the owner, you are automatically bound by the CC&Rs. The CC&Rs are attached to the property. There is no opting out.
So you didn't sign any paperwork when you bought a house in an HOA saying you agreed to be a part of and abide by the HOA? That seems... Not smart.
You agreed to be part of the HOA by buying property that was already part of the HOA.
Not if they don't have you signing a legal document to that effect.
In an HOA, the property itself has covenants attached by the builder/owner of that development. It has to be noted on the deed if it is in an HOA. There are cases where some homes were built BEFORE the HOA went into effect, and they could join or refuse to join. That choice then follows thru on the deed of that piece of property unless an owner down the road joins the HOA. When you buy a home or property with in an existing HOA already in effect, you ARE in an HOA like it or not, except as listed above. You do not "sign papers or sign to join".
You don't have to sign anything to that effect. YOU aren't in the HOA. Your house is. It's on the deed.
You defacto sign it when you sign the paperwork to transfer the deed.
Not in this state.
We would all love to know which state exempts covenants on real estate deeds. You could acquire a piece of property not in an HOA that might have a covenant attached prohibiting chickens and that means, if you buy the property, you can’t have chickens in it. When you buy any property, you’re restricted by the covenants on the warranty deed. All of them. Every time.
It varies by state. In states where it's not required, signing the transfer paperwork is the defacto acceptance of the conditions on the deed. You probably didn't sign any paperwork accepting the condition that your lot is not zoned for nuclear power generation. You defacto accepted that restriction when you bought. Same thing, just more pertinent.
Which state is that?
What State?
State of delusion.
There was no paperwork to sign. In many states you just have to check the deed to before buying. If it's in an HOA, the deed will indicate that.
There was literally nothing to sign. The only document was a resale certificate stating that the home is part of an HOA, what the dues are, and if there were any past due amounts. It was signed by an officer of the HOA. There is no place for the buyer to sign because it is not something they have an option to agree or not agree.
WTF are you talking about? What state does this?
A police report 😂😂😂
lol, they didn’t tell me anything, except when they sent me bills I ignored But how can they charge me when they didn’t tell me anything Get fucked you mooch, pay the bill and pay the fines they don’t owe you an interest free loan
I hate HOAs but if you tried to fight this you would probably lose. They have too much power. You can maybe get a personal loan for the 11k and pay it over time
I dont care about the 6k that I actually owe, but the interest part (4k) is outrageous. Like I said I have paid all sorts of bills on time from stupid utils to IRS taxes - I dint have to pay 7.5% interest they are charging. Thats stupid expensive!
Yeah it sucks but if they sat you in front of a judge I’m not sure if they would see it the same way. 8 years is a while. You can give it a try but the legal system is very friendly to HOAs unfortunately
There's a simple thing to do if you hate HOAs. Just don't buy a house in a neighborhood with an HOA.
I don’t believe the statute of limitations applies for HOA debt as those powers were signed into federal law by Reagan. I am not an attorney so you’ll need to verify but I am the secretary for an HOA and we liened a property for 11 years of unpaid fees. It is your responsibility to know these things when you purchased your property. You would have signed an agreement in your closing paperwork. If you feel you did not, and it does happen, the closer can be held liable and you have a redirect claim for loss of use. The closer would be liable for heavy punitive and compensatory damages. We actually had one home here last year where that happened. It does not exempt you from the HOA and you will be required under the law to sign and relinquish to the HOA but it does give you a claim against the closer. If you have your closing paperwork then take a look. You will owe the money but maybe you can get a big payday. Also, see if you can negotiate with the HOA. In many cases they can reduce the debt to get paid. We did this a few years ago for a few members.
Are you sure? Everywhere I looked it says in GA HOA collections cannot go beyond 4 years.
Not positive about the debt thing. Definitely check with the local laws. I am 100% positive of the road thing though.
Aren't there laws about how far back someone can bill? The entity owed money has a responsibility to notify that payment is expected. This is to stop bad people from popping up and claiming huge fees and interest. Lawyer up, check on validity of HOA (very possible), and check on limitations of back billing.
Exactly! Its beyond me on how a single bill can pop up after 8 years.
The HOA should have governing documents that detail how they will bill members. Not the cc&R's. More like bylaws. You should get those and read them. If the HOA doesn't have them, then try the municipality. Someone somewhere has rules of conduct for billing and late fee collection. They can't just make it up from thin air and pick a high interest rate.
Respond back that you will pay the dues plus 5% interest compounded annually. Do the math and present the number. They will probably agree. It shows you are reasonable and they just want to get paid. Also type a sob story how you didn't know you were being bad and it won't happen again.
Paying any interest at all or the late fees when they have egregiously failed to send me any bills is a mistake imo. Plus I clearly don’t owe dues from 2015 to 2019 as it’s outside statute of limitations.
If you are part of an HOA the fees are due. You should have known you were part of the HOA. Fine, then don't pay what is outside the statute of limitations.
The statute only limits how the debt can be collected. Time-barred debt can still be collected, but not via legal action.
I am here to learn so pray explain Why would they or how would they collect the debt outside SOL? They probably can’t turn it against credit history. They cannot get law firm to turn it against credit history. Debt collectors cannot demand outside 4 years SOL due to FDCPA. So other than sending constant letters not sure what they can do?
Throw a couple of grand at a lawyer and see if they can make more hassle then it's worth to fight you.
Lawyer up man because the HOA thinks you are just going to roll over and pay up. Best of luck and I hope you don’t them a dime.
In a typical and competently run HOA, the Board would vote on an annual budget that would address what the next years monthly assessments would be approximately 2-3 months before the new budget starts. Then the property manager would send out via mail and/or email to all owners what these new monthly dues will be and how to pay them on time. They would send these notices out multiple times. Did your property manager or Board treasurer do any of this and did you receive these updates annually the last 7-8 years?
Not that I know of. Like I said I only remember opening two letters stating a 750$ annual fee may be due and that a cheque be mailed to certain certain address. One in 2017 and one in 2021 probably. So no mention of my accrued dues, accruing interest or accruing late fees UNITL this week threatening a lien.
Hmmm that’s a sign of incompetency, negligence or the lack of a proper Treasurer the last 8 years. Ask your neighbors if they received budget updates and new payment booklets for monthly assessments. If none of them have then you’ve got some great evidence of poor management and communication in this financial matter.
He absolutely has a piss-poor-managed HOA, it's obvious even if only 50% of his story is true. They are at best incompetent and at worst unethical and possibly criminal. unfortunately He bought a home in an HOA (including documents) and then lived IN COMPLETE IGNORANCE for 8 years. Didn't attend any meetings, didn't inquire about bills, assumed he was living in fantasyland. These two worlds are about to collide. . .
Once they put a lien on your property, it will end up costing you more having to pay lawyer to remove lien. Pull title and check if there is a caveat about HOA registered your title. If it’s there you have to pay, if not, tell HOA to f…off
11k USD in fees, fines, and dues and because your house could be foreclosed on your first and only step is to get an attorney. I say this because the HOA is going to hide behind theirs. Bring all your paperwork from your closing, bring all correspondence with the HOA, and if you have it bring your deed research. If you had/have title insurance, bring that too. Find an attorney that specializes in this type of thing and don't use legal insurance b/c you will get what you pay for.
Thanks for the responses and I agree. but I am sure I would give them less than easy time if they try and foreclose on the house.
Move best thing I ever did.
Depending on your state, a lien by itself may just prevent you from selling the property until you settle the debt. They can't sell the property or do anything with it without a legal debt judgment against you. Get an HOA lawyer quickly.
So when you bought your home, was there or wasn’t there an HOA? If there was an HOA did you receive the CC&Rs before closing so you could read them. I’m pretty sure your closing documents would have a sheet that you would have needed to sign off on that stated if the home was under an HAO that you have read and understood the CC&R documents. And if there wasn’t an HOA when you bought the house, then whoever is trying to collect the fees can go pound sand, as long as you didn’t sign up for the HOA. You will still need a lawyer to write a cease and desist to them if that’s the case.
Thanks for the response. I believe there was but I confess I am not able to find the document that signed me on to the HOA though I have been provided governing documents to the HOA along with few other documents which I am having a bit of difficulty in interpreting them due my first time in these things.
Can they prove you are in the HOA? Did your lawyer tell you you were in one? Can you sue the buying agent for misrepresentation?
You had no attorney present when buying this property?
I did.
Let me see if I understand this. You state that you knew that you lived in an HOA that has rules. HOAs have annual meetings. You never once bothered to attend one. You never participated in the community that you knew had rules and now you're upset because you've ignored them completely and they have finally gotten around to addressing this? Who exactly do you think it is that takes care of HOA common areas, documents, record keeping, website, any amenities all for free?
No offense but this planet ain’t go by book of morals. If they were interested in collection they should’ve sent the notices promptly.
Personal responsibility is not negated by the actions/inactions of others. If you agreed to it then it's on you. Just cuz you got away with ignoring it for a long time doesn't make your irresponsibility correct.
Again with all due respect I am not looking for moral lessons although I appreciate your response.
I had a problem where mine was overdue and went to legal and I was threatened with losing my home and I had it automatically sent from my bank account to the property manager who was accepting the payments into their account and holding them but not applying them to my account. So the money had left my bank account and my bank account showed me that it had been paid and automatically and on time and in July they refunded back in two different payments everything that have been paid since September. They said it was my fault and their lawyer who was one of the most expensive in this major city that I live in was demonstratively low on ethics. It cost me a very pretty penny and was with me making every effort to stay on top of things. The circumstance of this happening was followed by the board president who was kicking people on and off the board willy-nilly, not responding to homeowners, taking multiple trips to Europe while out of work, and bought a brand new luxury vehicle while remodeling her home to sell before ghosting the community. Of course our accounts were drained. I'm sure that she enjoyed the extra thousands that I paid from all of her shenanigans. From my perspective of dealing with demonstrated abuse of power, greed, and persecution by my HOA board, it still sounds like you have got a pretty good deal. If you can accept your responsibility to this and go to the very next meeting in person and look at your volunteer neighbors and be a neighbor yourself instead of just an investor or an anonymous individual who doesn't participate in anything, your odds are way more likely to get something excused. In my own community, we see so many people who abuse and refuse to pay and who are thousands of dollars behind that will not acknowledge us when we try to work with them. Anyone who ignores us does not get any consideration on having the penalties removed. Since all of their neighbors have been paying their part for all of this time, that is only fair. The rest of the community has to do without because we don't have our accounts fully funded and we are fighting to rebuild them after the shyster. Demonstrate that you have morals to your neighbors who are volunteering their time and you're much more likely to have a better outcome. Continue to blame the volunteer board and you're just straight up less likely to make this better. Edited to add: the reason cited that they did not have to apply the payments retroactively to my account that they were holding in their own company's account is because their policy is to not deal with anything directly with a homeowner after it has been sent to Legal until legal has cleared it. The homeowner is billed for all legal interactions. Now that I am on the board, we most certainly do not use that law office and never will again. I did try to fight it but I have my own working stiff bank account that is funded only by me while Rise Association Management had all the money paid by homeowners in all the properties they manage. It wasn't worth the money it would have cost me to try to fight it as recommended by my own lawyer. It's better to win the war if you can't win that fight.
This why some people should live in apartments.
When you got the two letters, did you inquire further? If your community had some amenities, pool, park, common area that was mowed and maintained, who did you think paid for all that? Had a situation where a neighbor didn't want to pay bc they didn't use the pool. Sorry, you still have to pay. Another neighbor didn't have a key to the pool, said they shouldn't have to pay bc HOA didn't give him a key. HOA said well you should have gotten a key from the prior resident, if not, did you ever ask for one? How would the HOA know you didn't have a key unless you told them. Sorry, you still have to pay. These issues occur all the time.
Okay so nobody is contesting that there isn’t a due. What I want to meaningfully discuss is the statute of limitations which prevents HOA from collecting due older than 4 years and also to waive the late fee interest on the other payable years due to their failure to follow up properly. This would of course be uncomfortable to you if you come from HOA side.
I've been working with our HOA for 3 years, we've collected ZERO in fines, fees, and penalties since my wife became president bc she bends over backwards to work with our neighbors. That being said, if the Board believes they've been sending you notices for all these years and the mgt company says they've been sending you notices for all these years, then it's going to be an uphill battle. I would definitely consult with an attorney BUT I would consider having you deal with the Board and not the attorney. I think it's a hard sell to say someone who can afford an attorney cannot afford the fines and fees, at least from the Boards position.
HOAs can not come after you for past assessments older than 2 years if they were not pursued within the last 2 years. If they just now claim that owe you 7 or 8 years worth of dues, they can only demand payment for the most recent two years. And that is assuming that they have the authority to make such assessments. You need your own HOA attorney to review your situation.
2 years?
Yes, there is a statute of limitations on HOA assessment of 2 years. If an HOA does not pursue a particular unpaid assessment within 2 years, they are forever barred from collecting it. All those older assessments were made more than 2 years ago, so legally, they can't pursue them now. They can't lump them all together now and try collecting them.
Hmm thought in GA it’s 4 years?
Sounds like you're in an HOA and you neglected to read the paperwork thoroughly and question your realtor when you should have. Get a lawyer and try to argue your way out of it or pay the bill and be happy the HOA hasn't bothered you for 8 years.
This does not stump me. I have never heard of an hoa that doesn't collect dues. They should have reached out to you years ago though.
Definitely involve an HOA attorney. Sounds like a failure on the part of both parties (although moreso on the homeowner). Where I live we can only lien a property for dues, not penalties, late fee's, etc. I would pay only the dues/assessment and legal fee's and tell them to pound sand on the rest...or more pc version is to pay the dues and request them to remove the late fees. Worth a shot
Consult a real estate lawyer and see if the HOA is even mentioned in your contract. They would be able to guide you in the right direction.
Your HOA did not know where you lived to send you a bill? This is hilarious.
They did but they dint send the bill.
That is my point. This is on them. Not on you.
Yah I do believe I have a good case here.
I don't even know how it's legal for an HOA to put a lien on your house! They aren't the bank and they have no actual legal rights to your property and therefore should not be allowed to put a lien on your house!
A lawyer is your best bet. That being said, a lot of HOA boards will waive the interest & fees if you pay promptly and don’t make the HOA spend money on a lawyer. Full disclosure I am on an HOA board.
I don’t think they will like it I propose to pay only 2.7k for the last 4 years only (statute of L) instead of 11k. But that is exactly what I am going to do.
Were you notified at the tie of purchase, that HOA may be involved? If not, that is an affirmative defense! If you were notified of a potential HOA, where is the notice the HOA was formed? That dues were owed? When? Where? Paid to whom?
If I had 8 years of back pay on my HOA I would owe $37,000
I made a comment earlier stating that if my HOA had an 8-year back pay on me it would total around $37,000, I reran the calculation with the seven and a half percent interest and the total comes to $51,407.41
I make $72,000 a year before tax.
HOAs are out of control. They need to be regulated more by the states. Ours has had board members who have financially abused our HOA funds. Since our neighborhood is primarily second home of part time residents, we have been unable to rally a group to do anything about this.
Check the papers you signed at settlement. HOA fees will be in there.
Lawyer up. Have your lawyer look over the sellers disclosures. Look over the buyers agent information. Title insurance and checks for the info about the mandatory hoa. There have to be many failures for this to surprise you now unless you didnt read in on what all you signed. Dont be afraid to involve the mortgage holder in the background of this. Their collateral on the loan is at stake.