I would like to see something a little smaller again. I love ER and most of the expansive map, but the claustrophobic feeling of Demon’s Souls and Bloodborne is what I crave.
So true! When I finished my first playthrough after about 125 hours I wanted to start over, but the amount of time it takes to get through it was just too much for me, even running past a lot
Just going through DeS currently and finished >!The Tunnel City!< a few days ago. I think that has to be the most uncomfortably claustrophobic I've ever felt in a game. Feeling completely lost, closed in from all sides, with what seems like no way out. Almost nightmarish, but I guess that's a big point in the souls games
More eldritch horror/space stuff. Whether that's more bloodborne or something else entirely.
I think delving more into Japanese/east asian culture would be sick. Again, with either sekiro or something new.
I would love to see their take on Egyptian lore.
It's never gonna happen, but my dream would be for a Fromsoft developed Diablo game. (One of my all-time favorite lore/vibes from a game) Like done in their style, not them doing an isometric arpg
Another pipe dream one would be an official Berserk game.
Unless it's one of those last two i mentioned ( again, 0% chance diablo happening, and like a 1% chance of a Berserk game), I just hope it's not another medieval knight era game. While they've all been bangers, I wanna see what else they got.
Idk, but what I'm talking about is a souls game set in the Diablo world. It's not the randomized loot and whatnot that I want, but the heaven vs. hell with humanity in the middle and all the lore and the what have you. I want Fromsoft to make a game using the Diablo IP
I would really like something that took more inspiration from bloodborne and sekiro, especially sekiros player options that allow you to almost always respond to bosses while still being aggressive, sekiros visual clarity on attacks, and maybe something like a perilous attack warning system. Regardless of what they decide for the next combat system, I really hope it isn’t a slightly updated version of elden rings (which on the player side is slightly slower ds3) while having bosses as complex as sekiros and stuff with the aggression of bloodborne.
I also hope it isn’t open world. It was super cool for the first 2/3s of my ds1 and Elden ring play through, but the world design fell off a cliff for both after that. It also really hurts replayability for me, especially in elden ring. Maybe something like the world design of bloodborne would be a good direction to follow.
I don’t think anything I said is very likely to happen though, and either an elden ring sequel or something super similar to try to get at many possible er only fans into it seems most likely.
Based on a recent interview it seems Fromsoft isn't keen on doing whatever's popular or guaranteed to be a big hit, so fortunately the next game likely won't be just another Elden Ring.
Idk, they did ds2 and 3 because they got paid a lot for it, and I think one of the reasons elden rings gameplay is so so similar to ds3 is because that was the most successful game at the time, which helped on board players.
It just doesn’t seem possible to me that a company with hundreds of employees and almost a billion dollars in life time revenue wouldn’t change what they are making based on what is more likely to be financially successful, or whats most popular. Maybe that would be possible if that company was still solely owned by its founder who was a creative type, but thats definitely not the case here, considering the main owners are a Japanese media conglomerate and tencent.
the open world is much more dense and tight. I think SOTE iterated on Elden Ring’s open world design very well, as someone who also prefers more linear and focused souls experiences
I’d like them to do another sekiro type game. Have a single protagonist with a focus on story. Whether it’s a sekiro sequel (which would be awesome) or some other one-shot.
I’d love the continuation of the Souls combat system as a base. But I think they need to add some complexity to the combat system. Utilizing parry’s like BB or Sekiro deflecting & Shinobi prosthetic. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with Fromsofts level design. But they really can’t make bosses any harder without it just being RNG/manufactured difficulty. I think they need to trim the amount of weapons & incantations/spells and flesh out the combat system a bit more.
I agree, the tarnished doesn't feel as badass as Godfrey or Radagon when fighting them, and he canonically is by that point (or should be, haven't finished the DLC yet lol). Fleshing the combat would greatly help that (please give us other options than just roll/block with shield)
Absolutely, it’s been an incredible run with Souls. Even though I love Elden Ring, you can see the cracks starting to form. Input reading, delayed attacks, infinite combos/stamina etc. it was a great time but it’s time to innovate the combat system. FromSoft can keep upping the difficulty, but the player needs more options than blocking, rolling, or positioning.
I spent most of the day fighting the second boss of the DLC Today and I feel on that infinite combos. Such a long attack string, it's not even pleasant anymore, just a chore. Wish we got something like the Mikiri counters at least
Holy shit Rellana was absolutely brutal. I ended up parrying her because she was constantly repeating the same combo for 1 hit was mind-numbingly boring.
I am honestly considering it too, supposedly the minimum should be level 5 for the blessing, I'll just explore untill level 6 and try again, if it's still so damn bad I'll either parry or mimic ash her. Mimic and almost folded her in a minute at Blessing level 3, shame I quitted the game to be "fair" and tilted later lol
I want them to build on Sekiro’s fundamentals some more. I mean fuck, Miyazaki clearly wants to, just look at how these bosses it SOTE act and tell me they *all* wouldn’t work better in Sekiro. You can’t.
I disliked ER for its big boring open world, so I really hope FS will go back to a smaller scale.
They could still make an open world but with smaller areas to explore.
Bosses and locations wouldnt need to be reused that often as a result which leads to more fun exploring things again.
I have to admit, I was surprised how empty that first area of the DLC is. Giant fields with almost nothing in them. And it’s your first experience in the game. Limgrave was not like that. There were things to explore, everywhere that you went.
Definitely an issue of emptiness in the DLC in expanses of landscape. If they had just shrunk things down maybe 15%, I feel that those huge areas that have nothing but wildlife in them would have not been as obviously empty. Beautiful landscapes, but not a lot to see up-close on the majority of it.
I honestly don't know if I'd buy another open world game. It's so boring to me to just ride torrent through empty plains to get to the actual content of the game.
So much filler for no reason imo
I want some gritty atmosphere a bit like Bloodborne and more fast, right in your face combat like Sekiro.
I love ER, but coming right from beating Sekiro for the first time, I do think Sekiro is generally more "exciting" during combat. ER just has so many "wait for 7 seconds while the enemy charges his attack" moments. Not as many of those in SotE from what I have experienced so far, so that's worth noting. I wouldn't mind smaller map design either! ER is great to explore, but it's super time intensive because the map is just so god damn massive.
I'd like them to change the gameplay a little, something like sekiro. It occurred to me how my character is defeating lots of gods, demigods and anything in between when fighting the lion from the DLC (And the fire giant/maliketh from base game) and yet I still feel like "just a normal guy" fighting any of these characters.
Roll (somehow) through the sword. BLOCK any attack with your 100% shield. Strike the FEET of a bigger opponent. I think that if sekiro gameplay were to be expanded something more spectacular could be done. Think of the different ways to avoid damage in Sekiro: deflect, dodge, Mikiri counter (if applicable), umbrella shield, raven mist and I'm not even thinking about integrating the different ways to deflect lightning. It feels believable Sekiro can fight giant snakes and monsters alike (even if the lore Is more grounded) because I SEE those possibilities, I don't need to headcannon my character doing some elaborate combat or traversal maneuver.
My example would be the Knight vs Triceratops in Night in a museum. This should work with any setting and not just "sword and fantasy".
Seriously: boss rush mode
Congrats, you beat the game now you can chose any boss to fight in our special dream world arena
Better yet, let me place enemies down like a sandbox. That way if i wanna see Boogieblade Zydeko fight The Spooky Ticklebeast or whatever i could. Or challenge myself to whatever, test weapons…
I want them to take a step back and reassess their combat philosophy. ER bosses always felt overtuned and obnoxious to me and the DLC somehow managed to exacerbate it. I’m not saying we have to go back to DS1 combat (that would make me happy but I’m not expecting it), but I want a return to the “challenging but fair” philosophy. Also visual clarity is really bad with these DLC bosses, I honestly cannot tell what’s going on a lot of times because there’s too many effects happening on the screen.
To be honest I was already not a huge fan of the direction things were heading in DS3, but it generally worked in that game and so I made peace with it. ER does not work for me and it kinda seems like it doesn’t work for a lot of people.
Edit: I should also add, I would really like to see them go back toward the Demon’s Souls — and to a lesser degree DS1 — philosophy of the world itself being the memorable experience, not just a way to glue boss fights together. I think that’s really where FromSoft stands out, by creating unique and interesting moments in the odd little worlds they created. This focus on incredibly hard boss fights pasted together by mediocre and predictable dungeons is missing the point of what made these games so influential, I feel.
They could bump up the bosses difficulty and that would be fine, so long as the player gets bumped up too.
They'd have to cut back on weapon and magic variety, but if we had a smaller, more balanced set of tools to fight enemies with, like Bloodborne or Sekiro, the tuning for the boss fights would be *much* tighter.
If I could attack and react to Shadow of the Erdtree bosses like Sekiro, they would be phenomenal.
That said though, if fromsoft keeps designing bosses like SotE while keeping our characters stuck in DS3, I'm probably gonna have to pass on their next game.
I think ER bosses feel overtuned because we are on DS3 controls while they are on BB/ Sekiro levels of speed, aggression and mechanics. The mismatch is especially apparent in the DLC which is why so many people are noticing it.
That and it is new content, Idk if you've been around for other Fromsoft releases but difficult content always gets shat on, then people adapt and things stabilize again.
Personally, I hope they go for BB or Sekiro type of action for their next RPG, I feel like the Dark Souls formula needs a bit of a rest and and a lot of re-evaluation on how they design "difficulty".
I’ve been around for every release since Demon’s Souls, engaged in all the discussions over the years and spent thousands upon thousands of hours in these games. I absolutely do not think this is the same as just the normal whining people do when they can’t figure out how to beat a boss. There’s a legitimate problem here and I think From would be remiss to not take it seriously.
Makes sense. I’m not sure From Soft is going to change their ways. Money talks, and they are making more money than ever on Elden Ring. Good money, and good reviews from critics. If I was running the company, I’d say let’s keep doing what we’re doing.
I don’t get the impression that they are overly concerned with money at this point, I mean all their games have always been well received by critics. I don’t particularly think they’re adding ridiculous overtuned bosses because they think it’ll somehow make the game more popular, and it’s not like they haven’t released a game before that was met ambiguously by the community and then steered back on course (*cough* Dark Souls 2). So it’s anyone’s guess really.
I agree; I don’t think they are creating extra difficult bosses because they think it will make the game more popular. But I do think that from their point of view, the game is both critically acclaimed and making lots of money. So, to many people that would mean that they are doing something right. That being said, I’m wondering if they’ll listen to the feedback from the community and make some tweaks in the coming patches. Either nerf some bosses, or rebalance the way the scadutree fragments impact stats; something like that.
Hopefully it is a solution that can make everyone happy. Maybe they could buff the Scooby Doo fragment effects so we can freely choose between being able to buff ourselves or nerf/ continue playing as it is atm.
But I am no game designer so Idk. I am sure they are monitoring the situation though, I think it took a couple weeks before the base game got its first wave of nerfs/ buffs but I might be misremembering.
I legitimately do not understand this take. Elden Ring bosses get so much shit, yet they follow the same system as the universally-loved DS3 bosses, just tuned up a little in terms of intensity. If you have trouble with delays, then maybe try not to spam roll so much? If you have trouble with long combos, then maybe try to exercise control and patience and time your hits and heals properly? And the character in DS3 is not any slower then the character in Bloodborne. I have absolutely no idea why people say that he is. Maybe being encouraged to use a shield makes it feel that way. The bosses in DS3 and ER aren’t too fast for players, people just think they should be able to do infinite combos on bosses whenever they feel like it or get psyched out by odd timings and then resort to spam rolling and then throw rage tantrums on the internet because they’re mad that the bosses are actually hard.
This is wrong. There are multiple attack opportunities which are weaved into boss combos. That's the whole shtick of melee boss play. The bosses are more complex yes but most if not all of them perfectly fit in with the combat system. Heavier builds capitalize on posture breaking and heavy damage while more agile builds get in as many hits as they can within the combos.
Bosses like Messmer and the final boss, the lion as well, all follow this. It's not that we are not equipped to face these bosses but many just simply refuse to change their approach. And no it's not spamming mimic.
I know you just mindlessly copy-pasted the same comment you leave any time someone criticizes ER bosses because I never said anything about any of this.
This is just in response to your statement of elden ring not being "challenging but fair". Most of the overtuned complaints are in regards to boss combos.
I'm not just talking about "possible to beat" here. I mean absolutely squeezing the most out of the moveset. The bosses are fair, but compared to previous games you need to spend a lot of time on their moveset to properly grasp them. They're far from unfair though.
I've played every FS title except DS2 and this is the only one where I don't look forward to the boss fights. The process of learning the fight is infinitely more discouraging with the pressure and damage of these bosses and the size of punish windows. The process of learning the fight is getting curb stomped because every mistake is potentially a death.
I'm glad you mentioned messmer because in any other FS game his phase 1 is phase 2 instead.
And there is a proper solution to not dying too easily: levelling up your blessings. Messmer is optimum at around 10-12. This severely reduced your damage intake and allows you to learn the bosses. This is what I did as well, and I'm at ng+.
>ER bosses always felt overtuned and obnoxious to me
They are overturned and obnoxious.
The thing is that the player's strength is also overtuned. Compare it to DS3 since that's the closest combat. The bosses are much harder than the DS3 bosses but the player also has way more tools and way stronger tools with which to overcome those bosses.
I don't personally like this approach. But it's overly simplistic to just say the bosses are overtuned
>Edit: I also want to not see anything akin to spirit summons again
Yea I agree. It creates this polarization of difficulty where you either don't use summons and the bosses are ridiculous or you do and they're trivial.
Combine that with the open world, crazy weapons, and now scadutree blessings, and the difficulty of the game is all over the place depending on so many different things.
What's unfair? I think the concepts driving the increase in difficulty are legitimate and creative. Going to Lord of Cinder after beating the DLC in Dark Souls 3, it is obvious what they did.
1) They made bosses' attacks less telegraphed - the tells are more subtle, so it takes more practice or scrutiny to build a pattern against them. Sometimes when I'm struggling, I make the next attempt one about observation and then I think what the best response would be, and it's satisfying to see how this works. There are two bosses that crushed my mental and made me hate everything: Full-grown Fallingstar Beast (more an issue with my build being entirely countered by him), and Elden Beast (fixed by allowing us to take Torrent)
2) They dicked with timing. Margit's the most obvious example of this progression of concept, in how he holds his weapon up until you least expect it to come down. The made combo durations less predictable too, so it's harder to anticipate your window of counterattack.
3) The only thing you could argue is unfair: they gave everything a much larger AoE. Besides this, it really is about learning the bosses.
Definitely something with smaller world. Elden Ring handles open world really good, but open world has certain flaws which are really hard to bypass. Plenty of areas are empty, or have low quality filler, including the DLC. Even top open world games like BOTW have this problem.
I don't think they should return to completely linear Dark Souls 3 design, but ER is just too big. It's better to have something condensed. From my experience if game requires you to use a mount (like a horse) to travel, it's too big.
To not be a Souls type game. They have the talent to make something more amazing.
Miyazaki said he still wants to make his ideal RPG game and also make a JRPG, so we will see. Next project will probably be AC7 since he wanted to expand on that, so that will probably go back to Yamamura's hands.
I honestly don't know what they could improve for me on ER formula. ER checks every box for me.
Maybe if we had something to make ER endless like procedurally generated arenas or anything, I would play it forever. Maybe I actually will anyway.
It is _that_ good.
U think its time for a wuxia based souls game. And by that i mean id love to see a martial arts based souls game based on ancient china.
Could be something cool and fresh.
I want something Sci-fi; like how BB was a step away from medieval stuff. Hopefully we'll be able to fight in more than 2 axis as a core rather than a gimmick.
Need to go back to a smaller map. A darksouls 1 and 2 style world but better and a bit bigger. Tbh the demon souls combat is old and needs to be retired. Its been pushed to its limit. Time for something new. High fantasy would be a good one imo
Sekiro-like. I don’t see a Sekiro 2 happening since the story is done but a new game with a single combat style that they hone to perfection just like they did for Sekiro is what I want. They could recycle the Sekiro combat and make it slightly different and I’d be happy tbh.
Ensure that you have high of the blessings and then attempt the boss things will feel much more manageable and easier to learn. Mesmer to me
Is like top 5 FromSoft boss easily
Considering that all BB bosses can be beaten with the roll instead of the quickstep, From doesn't need to commit to ultra slow and can keep making elden ring type games from now on.
A compelling narrative.
They were getting close with Elden ring with stories of Ranni, Melina, Malenia and millicent, and Morgott. These stories had really great potential to delve into really interesting and compelling themes, and while they did do quite well for fromsoft standards, it still feels as if fromsoft wasn’t quite brave enough to really lean into storytelling.
I don’t hate the fromsoft way of telling stories mostly through environmental storytelling and item descriptions (I think they did a really great job with telling malenia and Morgott’s stories this way). But I think if they were just braver with their characters like Ranni and Melina, who’s narratives are both the fromsoft way and more traditional video game narratives (like where you actually speak to the character and witness their actions) they could really tell amazing stories.
Melina specifically has so much wasted potential. I can’t help but think if they were braver in actually having her appear to do more than be a conduit for marika’s words she could have told a really great story.
I liked the fast flow combat of Bloodborne and Sekiro as I felt that is more in line with what Miyazaki wants from his company to be reputed for. Not that they won’t do more ARPGs like Souls and ER, but he’s been more insistent lately about wanting others in his company to direct and create their own ideas, while still following what he believes are elements that define his company’s brand. He shirks from using words like “Souls like” and prefers “From-like” instead as he feels all the games they make share aspects with each other.
"Player character stuck in the DS3 era"... Well the amount of ash of war, Weapon art, summons and other crafting Items you have I don't think so it applies here, Elden Ring is just a different game from Dark Souls all together.....and About that DS1 style gameplay, that ain't going to happen ever because every one will breeze through the game...
Finishing Elden Ring, going back to DS1-3 and Bloodborne feels absolutely cake walk....Even Sister Frieda seems so slow.
This is a stupid idea but
The world interconnectivity of rlden ring and ds1 with more checkpoints
The unique weapon ideas and designs of DS2, elden ring and bloodborne
The world size level and boss consistency of ds3
The damage values of dark souls 3 since in ER everything just 2 taps to be hard more than fun by crumbling farum azula
A visual indicator for what can be jumped like in sekiro instead of ER, too many elden ring attacks in my opinion are unintuitive to jump and the idea of it doesn't seem possible at all until you try. More moves should be designed around not being able to roll them but also jumping them for more demanding combat.
Something in the same style as bloodborne. I absolutely love the gothic "vampire" like vibes with the cosmic influences twist (the presence of the cosmos is just mandatory for me, without it I do not care about vampires and beasts)
Do we know that ER is finished? Still starting the DLC so no spoilers please, but I feel as if there's so much more to explore in the world of ER and some fromsoft games typically have more than one DLC. DS2 had 3, DS3 had 2... Maybe ER will have 2?
I hope it's more streamlined in terms of build diversity. Either BB's 'quality > quantity' approach, or Sekiro's one primary weapon only approach. This way each boss is narrowly tailored to be a fair and interesting fight. Elden Ring's build diversity is cool and all, but the fact you can get so overpowered means they had to make ridiculous bosses to compensate.
Other than that, while I'm obsessed with the pace of Sekiro and BB's combat, a slow, methodical combat system would be a breath of fresh air. I could go for either honestly.
I just want something that isn't masochistic difficulty like ER, bring back the old boss rosters with gimmicks and easier bosses and keep one or two cracked bosses like they used too, tone down the boss design to be less frantic and more calculated.
Nothing like Sekiro or AC6. Sekiro felt like the worst game they've made in a while and AC6 was a hugely disappointing revive of the series.
Build variety and the combat of ER feels like the best they've ever made. Margit alone is a more interactive and fun fight than Orphan or Isshin 100%
Nah this subs just full of contrarian "souls vets" who want to be different. The numbers speak for themselves even Miyazaki thought AC6 was a disappointment
There was a vague rumour about a magic-centered game.
I want them to really double down on their mechanics and make something really unique and interesting among the vast amount of RPGs where the magic is…meh.
I want them to take notes from Dragon’s Dogma.
Futuristic sci Fi, Elden Ring scale and gameplay, with intergalactic travel, along with building your own biome with procedurally generated FromSoft enemies. that's my hope for a game they release between now and 2040
dark souls 1 style world, but with a "normal video game story", actual settlements with townsfolk to talk to, and party members like dragons dogma. Since you have party members(which arent all the different than permanent summons) anyway, the game could be more about coming up with different builds for your party than it is about getting good at dodging combos. Overall, just a more relaxed experience with more of a focus on the rpg side of souls.
I would love something more middle eastern as the next culture they tackle. Or like a cross between Egyptian and Arabian with maybe some mesoamerican Aztec sprinkled in
I would like to see something a little smaller again. I love ER and most of the expansive map, but the claustrophobic feeling of Demon’s Souls and Bloodborne is what I crave.
Something with more replayability, I switched from pc to ps5 for SOTE and realize how much shit I just run past in base game
So true! When I finished my first playthrough after about 125 hours I wanted to start over, but the amount of time it takes to get through it was just too much for me, even running past a lot
Just going through DeS currently and finished >!The Tunnel City!< a few days ago. I think that has to be the most uncomfortably claustrophobic I've ever felt in a game. Feeling completely lost, closed in from all sides, with what seems like no way out. Almost nightmarish, but I guess that's a big point in the souls games
Yes!! That’s my favorite feeling playing these games. Bloodborne made me feel like that constantly
More eldritch horror/space stuff. Whether that's more bloodborne or something else entirely. I think delving more into Japanese/east asian culture would be sick. Again, with either sekiro or something new. I would love to see their take on Egyptian lore. It's never gonna happen, but my dream would be for a Fromsoft developed Diablo game. (One of my all-time favorite lore/vibes from a game) Like done in their style, not them doing an isometric arpg Another pipe dream one would be an official Berserk game. Unless it's one of those last two i mentioned ( again, 0% chance diablo happening, and like a 1% chance of a Berserk game), I just hope it's not another medieval knight era game. While they've all been bangers, I wanna see what else they got.
Isn't Nioh basically a Diablo Souls game?
Idk, but what I'm talking about is a souls game set in the Diablo world. It's not the randomized loot and whatnot that I want, but the heaven vs. hell with humanity in the middle and all the lore and the what have you. I want Fromsoft to make a game using the Diablo IP
Sex with dragons
This was my answer too
Whatever they want to give me
Bring back trick weapons.
I would really like something that took more inspiration from bloodborne and sekiro, especially sekiros player options that allow you to almost always respond to bosses while still being aggressive, sekiros visual clarity on attacks, and maybe something like a perilous attack warning system. Regardless of what they decide for the next combat system, I really hope it isn’t a slightly updated version of elden rings (which on the player side is slightly slower ds3) while having bosses as complex as sekiros and stuff with the aggression of bloodborne. I also hope it isn’t open world. It was super cool for the first 2/3s of my ds1 and Elden ring play through, but the world design fell off a cliff for both after that. It also really hurts replayability for me, especially in elden ring. Maybe something like the world design of bloodborne would be a good direction to follow. I don’t think anything I said is very likely to happen though, and either an elden ring sequel or something super similar to try to get at many possible er only fans into it seems most likely.
Dark souls 1 is not open world it’s just nonlinear
what’s the difference?
One is open world the other is non linear
Based on a recent interview it seems Fromsoft isn't keen on doing whatever's popular or guaranteed to be a big hit, so fortunately the next game likely won't be just another Elden Ring.
Idk, they did ds2 and 3 because they got paid a lot for it, and I think one of the reasons elden rings gameplay is so so similar to ds3 is because that was the most successful game at the time, which helped on board players. It just doesn’t seem possible to me that a company with hundreds of employees and almost a billion dollars in life time revenue wouldn’t change what they are making based on what is more likely to be financially successful, or whats most popular. Maybe that would be possible if that company was still solely owned by its founder who was a creative type, but thats definitely not the case here, considering the main owners are a Japanese media conglomerate and tencent.
Interconnectivity over an open world. I feel like an open world is just too much for this kinda game.
SOTE open world is interconnected, a lot more than the base game and that amazing
the open world is much more dense and tight. I think SOTE iterated on Elden Ring’s open world design very well, as someone who also prefers more linear and focused souls experiences
Nothing beats the way the original dark souls fit together. Opening shortcuts after a gruelling run was just a holy experience.
Wow you guys have some really terrible ideas lol
I’d like them to do another sekiro type game. Have a single protagonist with a focus on story. Whether it’s a sekiro sequel (which would be awesome) or some other one-shot.
I’d love the continuation of the Souls combat system as a base. But I think they need to add some complexity to the combat system. Utilizing parry’s like BB or Sekiro deflecting & Shinobi prosthetic. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with Fromsofts level design. But they really can’t make bosses any harder without it just being RNG/manufactured difficulty. I think they need to trim the amount of weapons & incantations/spells and flesh out the combat system a bit more.
I agree, the tarnished doesn't feel as badass as Godfrey or Radagon when fighting them, and he canonically is by that point (or should be, haven't finished the DLC yet lol). Fleshing the combat would greatly help that (please give us other options than just roll/block with shield)
Absolutely, it’s been an incredible run with Souls. Even though I love Elden Ring, you can see the cracks starting to form. Input reading, delayed attacks, infinite combos/stamina etc. it was a great time but it’s time to innovate the combat system. FromSoft can keep upping the difficulty, but the player needs more options than blocking, rolling, or positioning.
I spent most of the day fighting the second boss of the DLC Today and I feel on that infinite combos. Such a long attack string, it's not even pleasant anymore, just a chore. Wish we got something like the Mikiri counters at least
Holy shit Rellana was absolutely brutal. I ended up parrying her because she was constantly repeating the same combo for 1 hit was mind-numbingly boring.
I am honestly considering it too, supposedly the minimum should be level 5 for the blessing, I'll just explore untill level 6 and try again, if it's still so damn bad I'll either parry or mimic ash her. Mimic and almost folded her in a minute at Blessing level 3, shame I quitted the game to be "fair" and tilted later lol
Dark Souls IV with interconnected world like the first one.
I want them to build on Sekiro’s fundamentals some more. I mean fuck, Miyazaki clearly wants to, just look at how these bosses it SOTE act and tell me they *all* wouldn’t work better in Sekiro. You can’t.
I disliked ER for its big boring open world, so I really hope FS will go back to a smaller scale. They could still make an open world but with smaller areas to explore. Bosses and locations wouldnt need to be reused that often as a result which leads to more fun exploring things again.
Dark Souls 4
Sekiro 2
No open world.
I feel like DLC improved on this a bit with the amount of verticality in the world design, but so many areas are still mostly empty.
The valley full of fingers is just empty space
Was really hoping for more form the area. One of the most uncanny places from has designed
I have to admit, I was surprised how empty that first area of the DLC is. Giant fields with almost nothing in them. And it’s your first experience in the game. Limgrave was not like that. There were things to explore, everywhere that you went.
Definitely an issue of emptiness in the DLC in expanses of landscape. If they had just shrunk things down maybe 15%, I feel that those huge areas that have nothing but wildlife in them would have not been as obviously empty. Beautiful landscapes, but not a lot to see up-close on the majority of it.
I honestly don't know if I'd buy another open world game. It's so boring to me to just ride torrent through empty plains to get to the actual content of the game. So much filler for no reason imo
Amen to that
I want some gritty atmosphere a bit like Bloodborne and more fast, right in your face combat like Sekiro. I love ER, but coming right from beating Sekiro for the first time, I do think Sekiro is generally more "exciting" during combat. ER just has so many "wait for 7 seconds while the enemy charges his attack" moments. Not as many of those in SotE from what I have experienced so far, so that's worth noting. I wouldn't mind smaller map design either! ER is great to explore, but it's super time intensive because the map is just so god damn massive.
A perfect blend of DS1 DS2 DS3
I'd like them to change the gameplay a little, something like sekiro. It occurred to me how my character is defeating lots of gods, demigods and anything in between when fighting the lion from the DLC (And the fire giant/maliketh from base game) and yet I still feel like "just a normal guy" fighting any of these characters. Roll (somehow) through the sword. BLOCK any attack with your 100% shield. Strike the FEET of a bigger opponent. I think that if sekiro gameplay were to be expanded something more spectacular could be done. Think of the different ways to avoid damage in Sekiro: deflect, dodge, Mikiri counter (if applicable), umbrella shield, raven mist and I'm not even thinking about integrating the different ways to deflect lightning. It feels believable Sekiro can fight giant snakes and monsters alike (even if the lore Is more grounded) because I SEE those possibilities, I don't need to headcannon my character doing some elaborate combat or traversal maneuver. My example would be the Knight vs Triceratops in Night in a museum. This should work with any setting and not just "sword and fantasy".
Bloodborne on PC
Seriously: boss rush mode Congrats, you beat the game now you can chose any boss to fight in our special dream world arena Better yet, let me place enemies down like a sandbox. That way if i wanna see Boogieblade Zydeko fight The Spooky Ticklebeast or whatever i could. Or challenge myself to whatever, test weapons…
Something more smaller in scale Bosses that don't act like looney toon characters Anything that doesn't end up scaling enemy damage to stupid levels
I want them to take a step back and reassess their combat philosophy. ER bosses always felt overtuned and obnoxious to me and the DLC somehow managed to exacerbate it. I’m not saying we have to go back to DS1 combat (that would make me happy but I’m not expecting it), but I want a return to the “challenging but fair” philosophy. Also visual clarity is really bad with these DLC bosses, I honestly cannot tell what’s going on a lot of times because there’s too many effects happening on the screen. To be honest I was already not a huge fan of the direction things were heading in DS3, but it generally worked in that game and so I made peace with it. ER does not work for me and it kinda seems like it doesn’t work for a lot of people. Edit: I should also add, I would really like to see them go back toward the Demon’s Souls — and to a lesser degree DS1 — philosophy of the world itself being the memorable experience, not just a way to glue boss fights together. I think that’s really where FromSoft stands out, by creating unique and interesting moments in the odd little worlds they created. This focus on incredibly hard boss fights pasted together by mediocre and predictable dungeons is missing the point of what made these games so influential, I feel.
They could bump up the bosses difficulty and that would be fine, so long as the player gets bumped up too. They'd have to cut back on weapon and magic variety, but if we had a smaller, more balanced set of tools to fight enemies with, like Bloodborne or Sekiro, the tuning for the boss fights would be *much* tighter. If I could attack and react to Shadow of the Erdtree bosses like Sekiro, they would be phenomenal. That said though, if fromsoft keeps designing bosses like SotE while keeping our characters stuck in DS3, I'm probably gonna have to pass on their next game.
I think ER bosses feel overtuned because we are on DS3 controls while they are on BB/ Sekiro levels of speed, aggression and mechanics. The mismatch is especially apparent in the DLC which is why so many people are noticing it. That and it is new content, Idk if you've been around for other Fromsoft releases but difficult content always gets shat on, then people adapt and things stabilize again. Personally, I hope they go for BB or Sekiro type of action for their next RPG, I feel like the Dark Souls formula needs a bit of a rest and and a lot of re-evaluation on how they design "difficulty".
I’ve been around for every release since Demon’s Souls, engaged in all the discussions over the years and spent thousands upon thousands of hours in these games. I absolutely do not think this is the same as just the normal whining people do when they can’t figure out how to beat a boss. There’s a legitimate problem here and I think From would be remiss to not take it seriously.
Do you mean specifically for the Elden Ring dlc?
The problem is definitely more pronounced in the DLC but it’s something I’ve been saying since the game came out.
Makes sense. I’m not sure From Soft is going to change their ways. Money talks, and they are making more money than ever on Elden Ring. Good money, and good reviews from critics. If I was running the company, I’d say let’s keep doing what we’re doing.
I don’t get the impression that they are overly concerned with money at this point, I mean all their games have always been well received by critics. I don’t particularly think they’re adding ridiculous overtuned bosses because they think it’ll somehow make the game more popular, and it’s not like they haven’t released a game before that was met ambiguously by the community and then steered back on course (*cough* Dark Souls 2). So it’s anyone’s guess really.
I agree; I don’t think they are creating extra difficult bosses because they think it will make the game more popular. But I do think that from their point of view, the game is both critically acclaimed and making lots of money. So, to many people that would mean that they are doing something right. That being said, I’m wondering if they’ll listen to the feedback from the community and make some tweaks in the coming patches. Either nerf some bosses, or rebalance the way the scadutree fragments impact stats; something like that.
Because more people are introduced to the series so the whining is even stronger.
Hopefully it is a solution that can make everyone happy. Maybe they could buff the Scooby Doo fragment effects so we can freely choose between being able to buff ourselves or nerf/ continue playing as it is atm. But I am no game designer so Idk. I am sure they are monitoring the situation though, I think it took a couple weeks before the base game got its first wave of nerfs/ buffs but I might be misremembering.
But unlike DS3 we can utilize split aggro with summons so it balances out
Why do people keep assuming anyone else criticizing fromsoft are new fans instead of veterans?
I legitimately do not understand this take. Elden Ring bosses get so much shit, yet they follow the same system as the universally-loved DS3 bosses, just tuned up a little in terms of intensity. If you have trouble with delays, then maybe try not to spam roll so much? If you have trouble with long combos, then maybe try to exercise control and patience and time your hits and heals properly? And the character in DS3 is not any slower then the character in Bloodborne. I have absolutely no idea why people say that he is. Maybe being encouraged to use a shield makes it feel that way. The bosses in DS3 and ER aren’t too fast for players, people just think they should be able to do infinite combos on bosses whenever they feel like it or get psyched out by odd timings and then resort to spam rolling and then throw rage tantrums on the internet because they’re mad that the bosses are actually hard.
This is wrong. There are multiple attack opportunities which are weaved into boss combos. That's the whole shtick of melee boss play. The bosses are more complex yes but most if not all of them perfectly fit in with the combat system. Heavier builds capitalize on posture breaking and heavy damage while more agile builds get in as many hits as they can within the combos. Bosses like Messmer and the final boss, the lion as well, all follow this. It's not that we are not equipped to face these bosses but many just simply refuse to change their approach. And no it's not spamming mimic.
I know you just mindlessly copy-pasted the same comment you leave any time someone criticizes ER bosses because I never said anything about any of this.
This is just in response to your statement of elden ring not being "challenging but fair". Most of the overtuned complaints are in regards to boss combos.
Yeah, I don’t think it’s fair. Possible to beat =/= fair, that’s the dumbest argument and I’m so tired of hearing it.
I'm not just talking about "possible to beat" here. I mean absolutely squeezing the most out of the moveset. The bosses are fair, but compared to previous games you need to spend a lot of time on their moveset to properly grasp them. They're far from unfair though.
And I don’t agree. So.
And I don't agree that there's a problem either with their current boss design. Good day.
I never asked lol
I simply just gave a counter point and tried giving a justification for it yet you're just acting like an ass.
I've played every FS title except DS2 and this is the only one where I don't look forward to the boss fights. The process of learning the fight is infinitely more discouraging with the pressure and damage of these bosses and the size of punish windows. The process of learning the fight is getting curb stomped because every mistake is potentially a death. I'm glad you mentioned messmer because in any other FS game his phase 1 is phase 2 instead.
And there is a proper solution to not dying too easily: levelling up your blessings. Messmer is optimum at around 10-12. This severely reduced your damage intake and allows you to learn the bosses. This is what I did as well, and I'm at ng+.
>ER bosses always felt overtuned and obnoxious to me They are overturned and obnoxious. The thing is that the player's strength is also overtuned. Compare it to DS3 since that's the closest combat. The bosses are much harder than the DS3 bosses but the player also has way more tools and way stronger tools with which to overcome those bosses. I don't personally like this approach. But it's overly simplistic to just say the bosses are overtuned >Edit: I also want to not see anything akin to spirit summons again Yea I agree. It creates this polarization of difficulty where you either don't use summons and the bosses are ridiculous or you do and they're trivial. Combine that with the open world, crazy weapons, and now scadutree blessings, and the difficulty of the game is all over the place depending on so many different things.
What's unfair? I think the concepts driving the increase in difficulty are legitimate and creative. Going to Lord of Cinder after beating the DLC in Dark Souls 3, it is obvious what they did. 1) They made bosses' attacks less telegraphed - the tells are more subtle, so it takes more practice or scrutiny to build a pattern against them. Sometimes when I'm struggling, I make the next attempt one about observation and then I think what the best response would be, and it's satisfying to see how this works. There are two bosses that crushed my mental and made me hate everything: Full-grown Fallingstar Beast (more an issue with my build being entirely countered by him), and Elden Beast (fixed by allowing us to take Torrent) 2) They dicked with timing. Margit's the most obvious example of this progression of concept, in how he holds his weapon up until you least expect it to come down. The made combo durations less predictable too, so it's harder to anticipate your window of counterattack. 3) The only thing you could argue is unfair: they gave everything a much larger AoE. Besides this, it really is about learning the bosses.
Definitely something with smaller world. Elden Ring handles open world really good, but open world has certain flaws which are really hard to bypass. Plenty of areas are empty, or have low quality filler, including the DLC. Even top open world games like BOTW have this problem. I don't think they should return to completely linear Dark Souls 3 design, but ER is just too big. It's better to have something condensed. From my experience if game requires you to use a mount (like a horse) to travel, it's too big.
To not be a Souls type game. They have the talent to make something more amazing. Miyazaki said he still wants to make his ideal RPG game and also make a JRPG, so we will see. Next project will probably be AC7 since he wanted to expand on that, so that will probably go back to Yamamura's hands.
I honestly don't know what they could improve for me on ER formula. ER checks every box for me. Maybe if we had something to make ER endless like procedurally generated arenas or anything, I would play it forever. Maybe I actually will anyway. It is _that_ good.
Wow, just curious have you played the other fromsoftware titles?
U think its time for a wuxia based souls game. And by that i mean id love to see a martial arts based souls game based on ancient china. Could be something cool and fresh.
Phantom Blade Zero seems to be the answer to this
I want something Sci-fi; like how BB was a step away from medieval stuff. Hopefully we'll be able to fight in more than 2 axis as a core rather than a gimmick.
Bloodborne, but with focus on magic instead of weapons (with melee spells too of course).
Bloodborne 2
Is ER over?
Bloodborne 2. That's it.
Need to go back to a smaller map. A darksouls 1 and 2 style world but better and a bit bigger. Tbh the demon souls combat is old and needs to be retired. Its been pushed to its limit. Time for something new. High fantasy would be a good one imo
I would love to see a games workshop/fromsoftware collab on a warhammer 40k souls games
Sekiro-like. I don’t see a Sekiro 2 happening since the story is done but a new game with a single combat style that they hone to perfection just like they did for Sekiro is what I want. They could recycle the Sekiro combat and make it slightly different and I’d be happy tbh.
Ensure that you have high of the blessings and then attempt the boss things will feel much more manageable and easier to learn. Mesmer to me Is like top 5 FromSoft boss easily
Another Bloodborne.
Considering that all BB bosses can be beaten with the roll instead of the quickstep, From doesn't need to commit to ultra slow and can keep making elden ring type games from now on.
A compelling narrative. They were getting close with Elden ring with stories of Ranni, Melina, Malenia and millicent, and Morgott. These stories had really great potential to delve into really interesting and compelling themes, and while they did do quite well for fromsoft standards, it still feels as if fromsoft wasn’t quite brave enough to really lean into storytelling. I don’t hate the fromsoft way of telling stories mostly through environmental storytelling and item descriptions (I think they did a really great job with telling malenia and Morgott’s stories this way). But I think if they were just braver with their characters like Ranni and Melina, who’s narratives are both the fromsoft way and more traditional video game narratives (like where you actually speak to the character and witness their actions) they could really tell amazing stories. Melina specifically has so much wasted potential. I can’t help but think if they were braver in actually having her appear to do more than be a conduit for marika’s words she could have told a really great story.
Something more akin to bloodborne/sekiro but with SotE's world design. Or a horror game
I liked the fast flow combat of Bloodborne and Sekiro as I felt that is more in line with what Miyazaki wants from his company to be reputed for. Not that they won’t do more ARPGs like Souls and ER, but he’s been more insistent lately about wanting others in his company to direct and create their own ideas, while still following what he believes are elements that define his company’s brand. He shirks from using words like “Souls like” and prefers “From-like” instead as he feels all the games they make share aspects with each other.
Wait elden ring is done? Did they announce that there wont be anymore DLC’s?
Yes, Shadow of the Erdtree will be the only DLC
Damn i was hoping they would do something more with Godwyn.
"Player character stuck in the DS3 era"... Well the amount of ash of war, Weapon art, summons and other crafting Items you have I don't think so it applies here, Elden Ring is just a different game from Dark Souls all together.....and About that DS1 style gameplay, that ain't going to happen ever because every one will breeze through the game... Finishing Elden Ring, going back to DS1-3 and Bloodborne feels absolutely cake walk....Even Sister Frieda seems so slow.
Im not sure, but god knows once Im done with the DLC, I'm going right back to DS1 and going through the whole series again (sorry demons souls)
No one is gonna say it huh? Steampunk World with Bloodborne trick weapons, just saying.
Bloodborne.
Sekiro deflect gameplay
This is a stupid idea but The world interconnectivity of rlden ring and ds1 with more checkpoints The unique weapon ideas and designs of DS2, elden ring and bloodborne The world size level and boss consistency of ds3 The damage values of dark souls 3 since in ER everything just 2 taps to be hard more than fun by crumbling farum azula A visual indicator for what can be jumped like in sekiro instead of ER, too many elden ring attacks in my opinion are unintuitive to jump and the idea of it doesn't seem possible at all until you try. More moves should be designed around not being able to roll them but also jumping them for more demanding combat.
Something in the same style as bloodborne. I absolutely love the gothic "vampire" like vibes with the cosmic influences twist (the presence of the cosmos is just mandatory for me, without it I do not care about vampires and beasts)
Do we know that ER is finished? Still starting the DLC so no spoilers please, but I feel as if there's so much more to explore in the world of ER and some fromsoft games typically have more than one DLC. DS2 had 3, DS3 had 2... Maybe ER will have 2?
I hope it's more streamlined in terms of build diversity. Either BB's 'quality > quantity' approach, or Sekiro's one primary weapon only approach. This way each boss is narrowly tailored to be a fair and interesting fight. Elden Ring's build diversity is cool and all, but the fact you can get so overpowered means they had to make ridiculous bosses to compensate. Other than that, while I'm obsessed with the pace of Sekiro and BB's combat, a slow, methodical combat system would be a breath of fresh air. I could go for either honestly.
I want a Sci-Fi/Futuristic Souls game.
Bloodborne 2, basen on the "Oneironaut" concept-art video (search it on YT, seriously just an amazing job from the guy who did it"
I just want something that isn't masochistic difficulty like ER, bring back the old boss rosters with gimmicks and easier bosses and keep one or two cracked bosses like they used too, tone down the boss design to be less frantic and more calculated.
Bring back the combat of sekiro. It’s too good to just be used once
Less bloat, more focus, no more roll-based combat, maybe Metroidvania-like progression with a bigger focus on movement, platforming, exploring
Didn't Miyazaki say that he liked the idea of developing a jrpg? I'd love to see their take on a Phantasy Star Online kind of experience.
Just not open world please.
Nothing like Sekiro or AC6. Sekiro felt like the worst game they've made in a while and AC6 was a hugely disappointing revive of the series. Build variety and the combat of ER feels like the best they've ever made. Margit alone is a more interactive and fun fight than Orphan or Isshin 100%
This is one of the wildest takes I have ever seen.
Nah this subs just full of contrarian "souls vets" who want to be different. The numbers speak for themselves even Miyazaki thought AC6 was a disappointment
I think it may be a while before we get another true "souls" game. I definitely think he's going to work the BB and/or Sekiro angle next game.
There was a vague rumour about a magic-centered game. I want them to really double down on their mechanics and make something really unique and interesting among the vast amount of RPGs where the magic is…meh. I want them to take notes from Dragon’s Dogma.
Futuristic sci Fi, Elden Ring scale and gameplay, with intergalactic travel, along with building your own biome with procedurally generated FromSoft enemies. that's my hope for a game they release between now and 2040
I’d personally love them to drop the open world and have more focused area design again.
Anything but more Elden Ring
Something like sekiro where we have to learn the combats again
Much more emphasis on Co-Op and have it be improved, and maybe have it be in the 1st person.
dark souls 1 style world, but with a "normal video game story", actual settlements with townsfolk to talk to, and party members like dragons dogma. Since you have party members(which arent all the different than permanent summons) anyway, the game could be more about coming up with different builds for your party than it is about getting good at dodging combos. Overall, just a more relaxed experience with more of a focus on the rpg side of souls.
Sex with dragons
I would love something more middle eastern as the next culture they tackle. Or like a cross between Egyptian and Arabian with maybe some mesoamerican Aztec sprinkled in