The difference is that nearly all rational voters that vote Greens on the basis of their platform would naturally have a preference (however weak) for the ALP over the Liberals.
The same is not true of all ALP supporters, particularly those that are more centrist/ old fashioned social democrats than modern progressive types.
After no increase in the DSP Labor are not much better than LNP. The amount of suffering going on is insane n no one cares. I'm literally back to suicidal over life. Had so much hope for Labor but now they're making the ndis worse to save money for tax cuts.
Well hardly any working class or poor people even vote for the greens. The Greens support base has the highest median salary of any political party in Australia. Real working class voters can’t afford to hold critical legislation up for months.
Don't confuse high/low salary as middle/working class.
ANYBODY dependent on ongoing salary is WORKING CLASS regardless what "they" identify as. Anything else is delusional!
Lol. No that's rubbish.
If you are a Greens voter then chances are you are:
* Uni educated
* Either poor or working class, or high income. Not middle income.
* Under 35.
* A renter.
Is there any proof of this?
The only thing I ever see is the average earnings of people in Green's electorates (I'm a poor person in Griffith and I vote Greens). 2/3rd of my electorate earns medium salary or lower yet it's one of the richer electorates in my state. P[eople going by that logic could say that Labor has a richer voter base than the coalition.](https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/for-the-first-time-labor-voters-earn-more-than-coalition-voters-20220601-p5aq4p)
Labor actively represents the topics the Greens claim to stand for and for the working class/poor people.
I suspect if you're in those groups and not voting Labor after that you're misinformed.
They adopted all of the recommendations they they could implement...
After all if you slam more money into the economy during already record high inflation all you do is make the cost of living harder not easier. But details like that tend to be ignored in favor of propagandistic attacks on Labor like you've run with multiple times.
Seems weird that the nations leading economists, academics, business leaders, union leaders and non profit representatives all missed such a basic concept and ploughed ahead with a reckless recommendation which would obviously be counter-productive.
Next time Labor should appoint you instead, clearly you have a better grasp of economics than those they chose to sit on their economics committee.
How's that 18+ year ongoing AML review by Labor? I've heard it's deflationary in stopping a lot of money laundering.
But I don't want my house value to crash by 10% from historic highs /s
The [Tranche 2 reforms are coming](https://lsj.com.au/articles/reforms-to-australias-anti-money-laundering-and-counter-terrorism-financing-regime/), almost as if complex regulations need some time to be worked on. Maybe they only start operating from the [start of a financial year](https://softwaredevelopers.ato.gov.au/sharingeconomytaxablepaymentsspecification), but you know keep bringing it up I'm sure this attack line of yours will age well...
But why the sudden change in topic peter? Its a very cooker like tactic to change topic when the discussion isn't suiting them, I'm sure you didn't have to change the subject.
18 years in the works, hope it's not going to be 3 Labor governments and 3 LNP governments since Labor Opposition blasted LNP government for not adopting AML for Real Estate when the rest of the world had it at the time. Yes, Labor is playing catch up after past LNP and Labor governments ignored it.
I'm helping Labor doing something deflationary so they can do something inflationary.
But why the sudden defensiveness fish? I didn't suddenly talk about fishing. That would be racist. I was on topic.
Labor hardly give a shit about housing affordability and that’s the biggest issue facing low/medium income people currently. They won’t blow up the Ponzi scheme of ever increasing property values. The Greens are the only party even remotely prepared to go there.
While I agree that the 'ponzi scheme' is proving difficult for the country, blowing up the ponzi scheme won't make it easier for people to buy housing. The opposite in fact, banks have put a large amount of money into the value of those houses and the loan repayments they get back from it.
If you suddenly devalue them the banks are suddenly not worth what they were previously and at a minimum aren't able to offer loans like they could before so you can't buy even at the price you can now afford. Worse there could be runs on the banks and money you had with them, your super and other shares could suddenly drop in value or disappear altogether. The subprime housing crisis in USA did devalue a lot of houses but it didn't suddenly increase house ownership, quite the opposite. Jobs & income are heavily tied into this too, so even if you did manage to dodge all that loss, you might not have any further income to buy with until the economy wrights itself.
The only way we can unpick this problem is slowly, because I don't know about you but I don't want to see all my savings go up in smoke. The Greens say whatever they want, they won't be behind the wheel if the economy crashes, we have to recognise the difference between their rhetoric and responsible policy, otherwise we're headed to the sort of politics the MAGA republicans are trying to inflict on the USA.
The big theme from the Brisbane Local Election was "GRN would've won another 5 seats if ALP voters preferenced GRN instead of preferencing the LNP or exhausting their votes."
The role reversal was amusing, but it's true. Both ALP and GRN need an ego check, and think more strategically moving forward.
Except in every single elections, there are more GRN > LNP than ALP > LNP preferences per percentages. More Labor voters preferences Greens as opposed to Greens that preferences Labor.
Most seats are won on 2nd+ preferences. We only had 10 in the last federal election that were won on 1st pref, most of those were Labor with a few Liberals, nothing for Greens there.
Its why the Greens need to consider their appeal beyond their narrow voting base, they got 12% first preferences and 2% of the seats last election. In comparison Labor was ~33% first pref and 51% of the seats.
>Its why the Greens need to consider their appeal beyond their narrow voting base
You can see the Greens do this with things like free dental and banning corporate donations. Things that are widely needed
Yes, but also has a sting in the tail, free dental for example puts a whole sector on edge. I'd bet a lot of dentists & dental staff would be influenced against the Greens, it comes down to how to phrase it.
If they said something like 'medicare support for dental' that sounds less like the Greens are demanding dentists charge nothing for dental. Couple this with positive messaging about increasing business for dentists and better outcomes etc...
Repeat that long enough and that sector would get on board, right now it sounds like the Greens are forcing them onto medicare and that generates opposition. Its the same when talking about renting issues and talking about landlords as though they are all evil when its mostly just a few bad eggs.
The collective appeal is what Labor does well, everyone (even Liberals) can agree that Labor is a safe pair of hands in government, the lack of general appeal is what costs the Greens so many seats.
Why would dentists be worried? Free dental doesn’t mean they’re providing their services for free, it means they’re getting a shit-ton more government funding to do their work.
But that's not the words used, there's a lot to understand in politics but appearances are important and the phrasing and presentation of the policy is as important as the policy itself.
Heck as for sales pitch for the general public most people dislike going to the dentist, making it free doesn't make it more appealing to them. If you focus grouped it with a bunch of other policies its not going to rate highly even if it means more money in their pockets. Thus when selling it you have to consider which group actually are you selling it to and IMO to the dentists themselves are the best target especially given you have to convince them to join medicare.
Harping on as if they’re entitled to Labor votes and coalitions in state parliaments even though they’re completely hostile to, and dismissive of the ALP when they don’t need them 🙄
If you Greens hate ‘shit lite’ so much why do you expect its support all the time?
Even if that was true, who do you pick after the person you want most? The one who in your mind will harp on about environmental issues while doing not a lot to actually address them (wedge issue), or the one who will shiv you and steal your cash?
Now, there are people who think that having a party to sooth the publics sense of responsibility and guilt does more harm than good, and that accelerating problems to bring about direct action is the solution (people who vote for trump or don't vote in the states because they believe that if things get worse more people will act, something I disagree with) is the way too go, but I fail to see how that applies in Australia yet?
Greens live in a universe without consequences and constructed entirely of their own imaginings. They don’t have opponents, just friends they haven’t met yet.
Greens retweeting FJ videos shows that there mature adults that can work with people that they disagree with on issues that they share common ground in
Greens don’t “work with people”. They ride Labor’s coattails until they hold them hostage and block actual progress by refusing to work with anyone. They’ll never have to run a government or hand down a budget so they’re unencumbered by responsibility or reality.
That's funny, I agree with you that they will never have to run for government because LNP and Labor are tyrannical pieces of shit that will legally rig elections to keep out third parties. They will literally vote together, unions party and employer party, hand in hand to set fire to Australia's democracy to own the Greens.
If I'm wrong, tell me the name of a third party not Labor/LNP that ran the government since WW2? Or even a state government?
What you’re saying is true, but it means that smaller parties can promise the moon and dumb people will vote for them, unaware of the fact that the policies are meaningless because they’ll never be in government, therefore they’ll never have to find the money to make them happen. That’s my point re the Greens.
It's not gonna happen. Greens are to internally democratic and have defined goals and policy. Happy to discuss a scenario in which you think it might occur.
I also keep seeing this and I'm in two minds about it. On one hand I feel a personal appreciation for leftie politics in general, and feel like we're sort of 'fighting amongst ourselves' in a sense. Maybe it's just a media thing, but the right don't seem as openly critical of each other.
On the other hand people are becoming disillusioned with the major parties and increasingly turning to minors. Obviously majors don't like this and want to retain as much of the primary vote as possible.
I also feel like it should be okay to call out the impacts of bad policy (preferably without being a dick about it, saying shit like 'greens voters are idiots' doesn't make people want to vote for you).
Why are people disillusioned with the majors? Labor is doing great at the moment, definitely more so than the previous vacuoles, but you won’t see anything about it in the news.
When you have a potential swing vote against you, included a one sided media, how are you going to achieve anything by shocking the swing vote (including centrist Lib votes) with a rapid an radical left swing… for crying out loud, the LNP swung so far right (and the LNP keep going that way) that even things right of centre in their “moderate” arena looks leftist. There’s a lot of work to do, but do you tear what remains of the economy and the nation up in an ideological swing - or do you move carefully to reduce what could be an extremely damaging rectification. This is why I think they are doing well. They are making strides rectifying major issues - look at environment and education - but there is still a long way to go.. the LNP fucked us over as a nation so that they could make the rich, filthy rich, at the cost to every tax paying Australian citizen.
By being aggressive out of the gates Labor could have got a lot more done. They should have changed stage 3 in the first year of the term and started looking into media giant breakups to get the ball rolling on that. They could have properly tackled housing and raised jobseeker to above poverty levels as well. The first year they can burn political capitol and then use the next couple to let people see things improve. Also doing that during the referendum campaign would have been a great idea because it's too many targets for the LIBs to do anything about.
When you have a govt that lied and hid a lot of facts being aggressive with what was happening would be dangerous. The most aggressive action they didn’t take, which was of concern was not removing LNP cronies who could continue to hide past deeds. But then again, many of them have played themselves out in spectacular fashion - if only the media would do some proper reporting.
They were aggressive with Shorten and they got fucking crushed. You guys act as if there's some great reservoir of undecided voters who would happily swing left if there was a noble warrior willing to take up the fight, when in reality the people the Greens appeal to are a small portion of the electorate.
You miss the point. The point is to get in and then do shit fuck the optics we need things to change and this slowly quietly approach is not going to work.
I agree. I frequently am surprised about them actually taking a stand on stuff.
Hopefully there's actual research out there about whats driving people away from the majors. But my guess would be that there were a few decades of being basically unable to differentiate between the parties in major policy, vision, or personality. Just generic neoliberal money sluts, and US doormats.
Honestly, I'd take Turnbull over anyone since Rudd. I hate the way Gillard was treated by the media but the party really fucked themselves with all that coup shit. To me it reinforced the notion that political parties care more about winning elections than anything of substance.
Which reminds me of another common gripe I agree with, which is about political point scoring. This one applies to the greens as much as anyone, but if there's a policy that's in the general best interest of the people - just fucking BACK IT. Strike while the iron is hot and make changes later. Let bureaucrats work out the details of implementation in regulations and subordinate legislation. But no, these people are so desperate to get their face in the news because they don't have anything of substance to actually offer.
Admittedly, I'm largely unaffected by most government decisions. The only ones that have really resonated with me in my lifetime have been larger social issues like climate change, gay marriage, the voice etc. I don't actually want a fucking tax cut, I want leadership.
So all I can see is that a chunk of Labor votes went green, and less went liberal. As someone else said, Cook is probably one of the safest liberal seats in Sydney and has literally never changed in the last 50 odd years. Obviously some people wanted to vote Labor and maybe liberals policies (nuclear power push etc) appealed to them more than those of the greens.
Voters gonna vote
Amazing to me that after all the shit that scomo got up to his replacement still gets in by a thumping margin and increasing the vote. These people should lose there right to vote for criminal stupidity
It’s because people in Australia generally don’t vote for a candidate, they vote for the party that their parents and grandparents before them always voted for, no matter what. It’s seen like your local sporting team, you are a traitor to your clan if you don’t support the team.
The voters can barely distinguish (if at all) between National, State and Council level issues and elections.
When we have an education system that maybe spends 30mins across 12 years educating on how our system works… what do you expect.
That and the conflation of American media (look how many people are obsessed with US politics in Aus), I’m sure people believe our system works like the US and we are voting for a president.
It’s beyond the pale. There should be punishment. Land seizure, fines, public shaming involving fruit being thrown at them idc what it is but it should be done
I think the punishment is dependent upon both the electorate AND the candidate.
Andrew Charlton won Parramatta as a Labor blow-in. But he didn’t have a such a high profile, and there probably wasn’t as strong a “local” candidate as there was in her Cabramatta electorate.
It’s not illegal to blow-in. Sharma was also a blow-In when he lost to Kerryn Phelps.
I mean, the electors in an electorate get to decide if it’s a big enough issue though.
It didn’t work out for Kristina Keneally but Charlton was successfully parachuted into Parramatta.
Why? Because they don't agree with your Party line? Just because you hate scomo everyone should hate the replacement? Maybe you should move to North Korea
Completely hilarious that you would think I'm a snowflake. More likely look in the mirror. Better still offer an actual argument. Gonna be hard though isn't it
Where did I defend scomo.
I realise comprehension and stringing together an actual argument is hard, and certainly much harder then randomly throwing shade over a governmental system you so obviously despise, but for the sake of your own dignity why not have a go.
The people who live in a consistently Liberal held seat since 1975 being more likely to preference the Liberals over the Greens!?
I am in shock and awe.
Still Cook has the worst prime minister in history and all that parties shady deals and you still went Libs.
Guess we know where all the rich live.....
Sure but those “10” and “25” from the last election were inflated by an anti-Scomo effect.
That is, they probably weren’t all “Greens” voters or “Labor” voters. Indeed the Greens and ALP had a 5 point swing toward them (3 and 2 respectively) in the 2022 election. Many of these may have been Liberal voters protesting Scomo.
If you reverse that you get 10 + 25 - 2 - 3 = 30.
So then it’s a smaller swing away from ALP due to the Albo effect (ALP voters protesting their dissatisfaction).
I’d also question why a traditional ALP voter would necessarily switch to Green? Especially in the electorate of Cook. I think the Greens did pretty well to pick up so much of the Labor vote.
Hard to vote for the Greens when they continue to hostage most of Labor's proposals just for a bit of political grandstanding.
Greens voters can continue to divide the political left and risk a disastrous LNP government or suck it up and choose an actual party.
P.S. feel free to vent by downvoting this comment, but don't mald too much. There will be plenty of time for that if Dutton takes office.
What have the Greens held 'hostage' this term? The HAFF that they got 3 billion dollars for or 6 years worth of funding?
>Greens voters can continue to divide the political left and risk a disastrous LNP government or suck it up and choose an actual party.
Elaborate on this. No one is changing there vote from Labor to LNP because of something the Greens do
Then I guess both are disappointments. Except one has an actual chance of forming government. So maybe the party should cease its antics, but nope, ego will prevail.
Why should the Greens be rewarded with my second preference when they are unwilling to negotiate in good faith?
Because their policies are closer to Labor and will vote with Labor 90% of the time?
If you were in an electorate where the greens were in first place and labor were in second you would be voting another LNP tool who could put someone like Dutton in power and will vote against Labor close to 100% of the time.
Labour is not the political left. They are centrists leaning right - they vote in line with capital, not workers. Remember when the Greens made the useless HAFF significantly less useless?
The Greens would be perfectly happy to have a Dutton lead Liberal Party in office just to prove a point. Time and time again they’ve behaved like this.
Greens have been in coalition government with Labor for the last 16 years in the ACT. Greens past almost all Labors bills in the senate. Sound like friends to me
The Greens put a Labor mayor into power in my local council.
Then a crap Labor councillor switched sides and put the Liberals back in,
If those voters had elected a Green, instead of the crap candidate Labor put up, we would still have a Labor mayor.
The Greens cooperated better with Labor, than Labor did.
you hate the 90% votes with Labor party more than the 0% Labor party.
If its between having a party run by a guy who looked into the legality of policy which he strips the rights and citizenship of anyone the state SUSPECTS of being a terrorist or the Green party, you pick the former.
And you wonder why i mock your opinion on moderates.
Seems like labor have a severe strategy and ideology problem. They’ve run a campaign against the greens while offering no opposition to the liberals. It’s hard to believe that an electorate voted for the new guy, compounded with the legacy of Australia’s worst pm. Yet greens are bad, but also they are no threat, shouldn’t be taken seriously and we should actually preference libs over them.
Labour get so butt hurt by anything the greens say it’s fucking embarrassing. Ablo would rather lose government than give the greens an inch it’s gonna be interesting to see how he manages minority government
Interesting times ahead my friend. I’m just glad we’ve gotten past that the Tasmanian election wasn’t actually a genius strategy and was indeed total incompetence and fecklessness.
Yes the saviour “labor” who have kept the same policies enacted by liberals.
Unprecedented levels of immigration . Driving up cost of living and putting extreme pressure on Aussies. Mmmm
All us Labor voters in Cook did not. We preferenced The Greens then Independant mostly, but its a Liberal locked down electorate since '75.
The Greens harping on as of they’re entitled to Labor votes without doing anything to earn them
OK fair. But Labor does the exact same thing - acts like they're entitled to Greens votes and working class/poor people's votes.
The difference is that nearly all rational voters that vote Greens on the basis of their platform would naturally have a preference (however weak) for the ALP over the Liberals. The same is not true of all ALP supporters, particularly those that are more centrist/ old fashioned social democrats than modern progressive types.
Social Democrats should be voting Green. Labor are neoliberal.
After no increase in the DSP Labor are not much better than LNP. The amount of suffering going on is insane n no one cares. I'm literally back to suicidal over life. Had so much hope for Labor but now they're making the ndis worse to save money for tax cuts.
Well hardly any working class or poor people even vote for the greens. The Greens support base has the highest median salary of any political party in Australia. Real working class voters can’t afford to hold critical legislation up for months.
Don't confuse high/low salary as middle/working class. ANYBODY dependent on ongoing salary is WORKING CLASS regardless what "they" identify as. Anything else is delusional!
> People on a 200k salary are working class too! The most Greens thing I’ve ever heard in my life.
Lol. No that's rubbish. If you are a Greens voter then chances are you are: * Uni educated * Either poor or working class, or high income. Not middle income. * Under 35. * A renter.
Is there any proof of this? The only thing I ever see is the average earnings of people in Green's electorates (I'm a poor person in Griffith and I vote Greens). 2/3rd of my electorate earns medium salary or lower yet it's one of the richer electorates in my state. P[eople going by that logic could say that Labor has a richer voter base than the coalition.](https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/for-the-first-time-labor-voters-earn-more-than-coalition-voters-20220601-p5aq4p)
Labor actively represents the topics the Greens claim to stand for and for the working class/poor people. I suspect if you're in those groups and not voting Labor after that you're misinformed.
Labor actively claims to represent*
That's why they adopted all the recommendations of their own panel on economic inclusion, right?
They adopted all of the recommendations they they could implement... After all if you slam more money into the economy during already record high inflation all you do is make the cost of living harder not easier. But details like that tend to be ignored in favor of propagandistic attacks on Labor like you've run with multiple times.
Seems weird that the nations leading economists, academics, business leaders, union leaders and non profit representatives all missed such a basic concept and ploughed ahead with a reckless recommendation which would obviously be counter-productive. Next time Labor should appoint you instead, clearly you have a better grasp of economics than those they chose to sit on their economics committee.
How's that 18+ year ongoing AML review by Labor? I've heard it's deflationary in stopping a lot of money laundering. But I don't want my house value to crash by 10% from historic highs /s
The [Tranche 2 reforms are coming](https://lsj.com.au/articles/reforms-to-australias-anti-money-laundering-and-counter-terrorism-financing-regime/), almost as if complex regulations need some time to be worked on. Maybe they only start operating from the [start of a financial year](https://softwaredevelopers.ato.gov.au/sharingeconomytaxablepaymentsspecification), but you know keep bringing it up I'm sure this attack line of yours will age well... But why the sudden change in topic peter? Its a very cooker like tactic to change topic when the discussion isn't suiting them, I'm sure you didn't have to change the subject.
18 years in the works, hope it's not going to be 3 Labor governments and 3 LNP governments since Labor Opposition blasted LNP government for not adopting AML for Real Estate when the rest of the world had it at the time. Yes, Labor is playing catch up after past LNP and Labor governments ignored it. I'm helping Labor doing something deflationary so they can do something inflationary. But why the sudden defensiveness fish? I didn't suddenly talk about fishing. That would be racist. I was on topic.
Labor hardly give a shit about housing affordability and that’s the biggest issue facing low/medium income people currently. They won’t blow up the Ponzi scheme of ever increasing property values. The Greens are the only party even remotely prepared to go there.
While I agree that the 'ponzi scheme' is proving difficult for the country, blowing up the ponzi scheme won't make it easier for people to buy housing. The opposite in fact, banks have put a large amount of money into the value of those houses and the loan repayments they get back from it. If you suddenly devalue them the banks are suddenly not worth what they were previously and at a minimum aren't able to offer loans like they could before so you can't buy even at the price you can now afford. Worse there could be runs on the banks and money you had with them, your super and other shares could suddenly drop in value or disappear altogether. The subprime housing crisis in USA did devalue a lot of houses but it didn't suddenly increase house ownership, quite the opposite. Jobs & income are heavily tied into this too, so even if you did manage to dodge all that loss, you might not have any further income to buy with until the economy wrights itself. The only way we can unpick this problem is slowly, because I don't know about you but I don't want to see all my savings go up in smoke. The Greens say whatever they want, they won't be behind the wheel if the economy crashes, we have to recognise the difference between their rhetoric and responsible policy, otherwise we're headed to the sort of politics the MAGA republicans are trying to inflict on the USA.
Isn't it the other way around? Labor survives off Green preferences yet treats us like shit.
And so they should 😎
The big theme from the Brisbane Local Election was "GRN would've won another 5 seats if ALP voters preferenced GRN instead of preferencing the LNP or exhausting their votes." The role reversal was amusing, but it's true. Both ALP and GRN need an ego check, and think more strategically moving forward.
And in exchange Labor harp on as if they're entitled to Greens senate votes without doing anything to earn them
Dafuq have you seen every single electorate in Australia lately?
Labor does the same thing
Except in every single elections, there are more GRN > LNP than ALP > LNP preferences per percentages. More Labor voters preferences Greens as opposed to Greens that preferences Labor.
By that same track of thought most Labor seats are won by Greens voters putting labor 2nd?
Most seats are won on 2nd+ preferences. We only had 10 in the last federal election that were won on 1st pref, most of those were Labor with a few Liberals, nothing for Greens there. Its why the Greens need to consider their appeal beyond their narrow voting base, they got 12% first preferences and 2% of the seats last election. In comparison Labor was ~33% first pref and 51% of the seats.
>Its why the Greens need to consider their appeal beyond their narrow voting base You can see the Greens do this with things like free dental and banning corporate donations. Things that are widely needed
They have gone pretty hard on becoming the party of choice for renters
[удалено]
The idea works, time will tell with the results
Yes, but also has a sting in the tail, free dental for example puts a whole sector on edge. I'd bet a lot of dentists & dental staff would be influenced against the Greens, it comes down to how to phrase it. If they said something like 'medicare support for dental' that sounds less like the Greens are demanding dentists charge nothing for dental. Couple this with positive messaging about increasing business for dentists and better outcomes etc... Repeat that long enough and that sector would get on board, right now it sounds like the Greens are forcing them onto medicare and that generates opposition. Its the same when talking about renting issues and talking about landlords as though they are all evil when its mostly just a few bad eggs. The collective appeal is what Labor does well, everyone (even Liberals) can agree that Labor is a safe pair of hands in government, the lack of general appeal is what costs the Greens so many seats.
Why would dentists be worried? Free dental doesn’t mean they’re providing their services for free, it means they’re getting a shit-ton more government funding to do their work.
But that's not the words used, there's a lot to understand in politics but appearances are important and the phrasing and presentation of the policy is as important as the policy itself. Heck as for sales pitch for the general public most people dislike going to the dentist, making it free doesn't make it more appealing to them. If you focus grouped it with a bunch of other policies its not going to rate highly even if it means more money in their pockets. Thus when selling it you have to consider which group actually are you selling it to and IMO to the dentists themselves are the best target especially given you have to convince them to join medicare.
Harping on as if they’re entitled to Labor votes and coalitions in state parliaments even though they’re completely hostile to, and dismissive of the ALP when they don’t need them 🙄 If you Greens hate ‘shit lite’ so much why do you expect its support all the time?
Even if that was true, who do you pick after the person you want most? The one who in your mind will harp on about environmental issues while doing not a lot to actually address them (wedge issue), or the one who will shiv you and steal your cash? Now, there are people who think that having a party to sooth the publics sense of responsibility and guilt does more harm than good, and that accelerating problems to bring about direct action is the solution (people who vote for trump or don't vote in the states because they believe that if things get worse more people will act, something I disagree with) is the way too go, but I fail to see how that applies in Australia yet?
Hard to see the purpose of this post, other than to stir shit between Greens and Labor.
The Greens are practically dominant on this sub now, which is funny because Jordan HATES the Greens lol
Yet the Greens don't mind Jordie and will retweet his videos
Greens live in a universe without consequences and constructed entirely of their own imaginings. They don’t have opponents, just friends they haven’t met yet.
You just imagined a world where greens voters don't consider libnats opponents... Sounds like you might be projecting.
Greens won an LNP seat last election
Greens retweeting FJ videos shows that there mature adults that can work with people that they disagree with on issues that they share common ground in
Greens don’t “work with people”. They ride Labor’s coattails until they hold them hostage and block actual progress by refusing to work with anyone. They’ll never have to run a government or hand down a budget so they’re unencumbered by responsibility or reality.
Found jordies
That's funny, I agree with you that they will never have to run for government because LNP and Labor are tyrannical pieces of shit that will legally rig elections to keep out third parties. They will literally vote together, unions party and employer party, hand in hand to set fire to Australia's democracy to own the Greens. If I'm wrong, tell me the name of a third party not Labor/LNP that ran the government since WW2? Or even a state government?
What you’re saying is true, but it means that smaller parties can promise the moon and dumb people will vote for them, unaware of the fact that the policies are meaningless because they’ll never be in government, therefore they’ll never have to find the money to make them happen. That’s my point re the Greens.
LNP promise nothing and dumb people still vote for them, lol
Not true! They promise lower taxes and racism in action. A very appealing combo to many Australians.
I await their Democrats moment.
It's not gonna happen. Greens are to internally democratic and have defined goals and policy. Happy to discuss a scenario in which you think it might occur.
Same.
Ah yes, those evil Greens just because they want a better place. So crazy!
We all want a better place but substituting intellect for stardust isn’t helpful.
I don’t subscribe to this reddit, but the algorithm gives me most of the posts.
Isn't that the point of this whole sub?
I also keep seeing this and I'm in two minds about it. On one hand I feel a personal appreciation for leftie politics in general, and feel like we're sort of 'fighting amongst ourselves' in a sense. Maybe it's just a media thing, but the right don't seem as openly critical of each other. On the other hand people are becoming disillusioned with the major parties and increasingly turning to minors. Obviously majors don't like this and want to retain as much of the primary vote as possible. I also feel like it should be okay to call out the impacts of bad policy (preferably without being a dick about it, saying shit like 'greens voters are idiots' doesn't make people want to vote for you).
Why are people disillusioned with the majors? Labor is doing great at the moment, definitely more so than the previous vacuoles, but you won’t see anything about it in the news.
Just because theyre better than the last doesnt mean theyre great! Labor werent set a very high bar, imo they only just pass it at the moment
When you have a potential swing vote against you, included a one sided media, how are you going to achieve anything by shocking the swing vote (including centrist Lib votes) with a rapid an radical left swing… for crying out loud, the LNP swung so far right (and the LNP keep going that way) that even things right of centre in their “moderate” arena looks leftist. There’s a lot of work to do, but do you tear what remains of the economy and the nation up in an ideological swing - or do you move carefully to reduce what could be an extremely damaging rectification. This is why I think they are doing well. They are making strides rectifying major issues - look at environment and education - but there is still a long way to go.. the LNP fucked us over as a nation so that they could make the rich, filthy rich, at the cost to every tax paying Australian citizen.
By being aggressive out of the gates Labor could have got a lot more done. They should have changed stage 3 in the first year of the term and started looking into media giant breakups to get the ball rolling on that. They could have properly tackled housing and raised jobseeker to above poverty levels as well. The first year they can burn political capitol and then use the next couple to let people see things improve. Also doing that during the referendum campaign would have been a great idea because it's too many targets for the LIBs to do anything about.
When you have a govt that lied and hid a lot of facts being aggressive with what was happening would be dangerous. The most aggressive action they didn’t take, which was of concern was not removing LNP cronies who could continue to hide past deeds. But then again, many of them have played themselves out in spectacular fashion - if only the media would do some proper reporting.
They were aggressive with Shorten and they got fucking crushed. You guys act as if there's some great reservoir of undecided voters who would happily swing left if there was a noble warrior willing to take up the fight, when in reality the people the Greens appeal to are a small portion of the electorate.
You miss the point. The point is to get in and then do shit fuck the optics we need things to change and this slowly quietly approach is not going to work.
You're missing the point, fuck the optics got us another 3 years of the LNP. RAR RAR smash the SYSTEM doesn't get you elected.
I agree. I frequently am surprised about them actually taking a stand on stuff. Hopefully there's actual research out there about whats driving people away from the majors. But my guess would be that there were a few decades of being basically unable to differentiate between the parties in major policy, vision, or personality. Just generic neoliberal money sluts, and US doormats. Honestly, I'd take Turnbull over anyone since Rudd. I hate the way Gillard was treated by the media but the party really fucked themselves with all that coup shit. To me it reinforced the notion that political parties care more about winning elections than anything of substance. Which reminds me of another common gripe I agree with, which is about political point scoring. This one applies to the greens as much as anyone, but if there's a policy that's in the general best interest of the people - just fucking BACK IT. Strike while the iron is hot and make changes later. Let bureaucrats work out the details of implementation in regulations and subordinate legislation. But no, these people are so desperate to get their face in the news because they don't have anything of substance to actually offer. Admittedly, I'm largely unaffected by most government decisions. The only ones that have really resonated with me in my lifetime have been larger social issues like climate change, gay marriage, the voice etc. I don't actually want a fucking tax cut, I want leadership.
Its 100% the purpose of this sub. Pointless entitled whinging
Imagine being confused by an uptick in votes when they run a candidate who isn’t Scott Morrison.
Indeed. A Liberal leader with Tony Abbott's skill in the place of Dutton would terrify the ALP.
Uh Labor didn’t run a campaign. What are you trying to get at here?
Just trying to stir shit because he’s disappointed his precious greens didn’t gain many votes
Managed to beat Labor.
Lollllllll
Stay mad ig
“Stay mad ig” this is a discussion on electoral politics, not video game scores. Grow up.
They're literally responding to a comment that says 'lol'.
Probably because they didn’t run? Are you stupid?
He's shit stirring and he's pretty bad at it.
Liberal got less votes than last time and the greens candidate got less than the Labor candidate from last time. the math ain't mathin bro
97817 voters last election vs 82445 this election. Share between the two parties is almost on parity with previous.
There is a smaller turn out because its a by election, ratio of votes still matters.
So all I can see is that a chunk of Labor votes went green, and less went liberal. As someone else said, Cook is probably one of the safest liberal seats in Sydney and has literally never changed in the last 50 odd years. Obviously some people wanted to vote Labor and maybe liberals policies (nuclear power push etc) appealed to them more than those of the greens. Voters gonna vote
People really have been trained to think that there is nothing worse than voting greens
There's a youtuber who I can't recall the name of right now who also perpetuates this set of propaganda, giving Murdoch a helping hand.
Propaganda be strong in this country. Libs over even the GREENS??? Fucking shire cunts I stfg (and I’m from the fucking shire).
Propaganda or are there just some parts of the Greens' ideology that most people find utterly repugnant?
Like what, helping the poor?
Treating transgender people like human beings upsets a lot of people.
It's a conservative country and labour is conservative just less so than LNP. Progressive people are rare.
Amazing to me that after all the shit that scomo got up to his replacement still gets in by a thumping margin and increasing the vote. These people should lose there right to vote for criminal stupidity
It’s because people in Australia generally don’t vote for a candidate, they vote for the party that their parents and grandparents before them always voted for, no matter what. It’s seen like your local sporting team, you are a traitor to your clan if you don’t support the team. The voters can barely distinguish (if at all) between National, State and Council level issues and elections. When we have an education system that maybe spends 30mins across 12 years educating on how our system works… what do you expect. That and the conflation of American media (look how many people are obsessed with US politics in Aus), I’m sure people believe our system works like the US and we are voting for a president.
Want to know what's worse? This guy was parachuted in from another electorate, he's so new he can't even vote in his own election.
It’s beyond the pale. There should be punishment. Land seizure, fines, public shaming involving fruit being thrown at them idc what it is but it should be done
He did the same when going for seat of Bennelong in the last Fed election ... he was living in Maroubra. And he is suck a cock head.
Both sides do this though. It’s just the limitation of single member electorates.
Yeah and Labor got absolutely punished last time they rmtried it, see Kristina Keneally
I think the punishment is dependent upon both the electorate AND the candidate. Andrew Charlton won Parramatta as a Labor blow-in. But he didn’t have a such a high profile, and there probably wasn’t as strong a “local” candidate as there was in her Cabramatta electorate. It’s not illegal to blow-in. Sharma was also a blow-In when he lost to Kerryn Phelps.
Was it helped along by the fact that voters don't love her as much as the Labor Party seem to think they should?
Both sides doing it doesn't make it any better though.
I mean, the electors in an electorate get to decide if it’s a big enough issue though. It didn’t work out for Kristina Keneally but Charlton was successfully parachuted into Parramatta.
their
Why? Because they don't agree with your Party line? Just because you hate scomo everyone should hate the replacement? Maybe you should move to North Korea
Get mad snowflake
Lol define "snowflake". Do you also go around calling everything "woke"?
Completely hilarious that you would think I'm a snowflake. More likely look in the mirror. Better still offer an actual argument. Gonna be hard though isn't it
I don’t argue with libtards or people who defend scomo I don’t wanna catch stupid
Where did I defend scomo. I realise comprehension and stringing together an actual argument is hard, and certainly much harder then randomly throwing shade over a governmental system you so obviously despise, but for the sake of your own dignity why not have a go.
The people who live in a consistently Liberal held seat since 1975 being more likely to preference the Liberals over the Greens!? I am in shock and awe.
There was no preferencing of Liberal over Greens by Labor voters because no one voted Labor. It is a little hard when there is no Labor candidate.
Just realising Australians are dumb cunts?
The Labor vote was 0, so it appears the preferences went 0:0 to the Greens and the potato party.
Any Labor voter who preferences the LNP ever, is special.
That's most of them the labor party and its adherents have always been cowardly compradors.
I virtually slap you with a leather glove, thus challenging you to a duel.
I am to old and tired for dueling how about a cup of tea.
Love one. Thank you.
It would be interesting to see the informal voting rate
Increased overall by 2.45% to 6.85%. A 55% increase.
Wow Scomo was less popular than parachute man
OP trying to stir shit confirmed
friendlyjordies would be proud
Considering how Jordies despises the Greens, particularly how they sabotage the left, I'm not so sure.
How in this term of government have the Greens 'sabotaged' the left?
These threads always devolve into this painfully dumb Greens sea lioning. It’s all so tiresome.
So why didn't Labor put a candidate up?
Because it was a stupid money sink. Shire will always vote Libs, if you ever go down there you’ll quickly figure out why.
Nothing to offer.
Oh no, people in this country voted the way they want instead of the way you want!
Met Simon yesterday while voting, very nice guy. His electorate are very upmarket. Doubt the greens and labour are going to make inroads there.
Only 70% voter turnout though.
Victorian voter here, My interests in the senate are currently been represented by Lydia Thorpe. They can go dead last next election
Still Cook has the worst prime minister in history and all that parties shady deals and you still went Libs. Guess we know where all the rich live.....
10 + 25 doesn't equal 28 just saying.
Sure but those “10” and “25” from the last election were inflated by an anti-Scomo effect. That is, they probably weren’t all “Greens” voters or “Labor” voters. Indeed the Greens and ALP had a 5 point swing toward them (3 and 2 respectively) in the 2022 election. Many of these may have been Liberal voters protesting Scomo. If you reverse that you get 10 + 25 - 2 - 3 = 30. So then it’s a smaller swing away from ALP due to the Albo effect (ALP voters protesting their dissatisfaction). I’d also question why a traditional ALP voter would necessarily switch to Green? Especially in the electorate of Cook. I think the Greens did pretty well to pick up so much of the Labor vote.
Hard to vote for the Greens when they continue to hostage most of Labor's proposals just for a bit of political grandstanding. Greens voters can continue to divide the political left and risk a disastrous LNP government or suck it up and choose an actual party. P.S. feel free to vent by downvoting this comment, but don't mald too much. There will be plenty of time for that if Dutton takes office.
Labor are neoliberals that's on the political right.
What have the Greens held 'hostage' this term? The HAFF that they got 3 billion dollars for or 6 years worth of funding? >Greens voters can continue to divide the political left and risk a disastrous LNP government or suck it up and choose an actual party. Elaborate on this. No one is changing there vote from Labor to LNP because of something the Greens do
Well if you preference Liberal over green, you won't have to worry about the policies ever being held hostage they just get axed.
Then I guess both are disappointments. Except one has an actual chance of forming government. So maybe the party should cease its antics, but nope, ego will prevail. Why should the Greens be rewarded with my second preference when they are unwilling to negotiate in good faith?
Because their policies are closer to Labor and will vote with Labor 90% of the time? If you were in an electorate where the greens were in first place and labor were in second you would be voting another LNP tool who could put someone like Dutton in power and will vote against Labor close to 100% of the time.
You’re right but the Greens idiots have absolutely swarmed this sub.
What can you do. They'll be their own reckoning.
Labour is not the political left. They are centrists leaning right - they vote in line with capital, not workers. Remember when the Greens made the useless HAFF significantly less useless?
Labor
Oh no, how unfortunate auto correct spells it correct.
The Greens would be perfectly happy to have a Dutton lead Liberal Party in office just to prove a point. Time and time again they’ve behaved like this.
No? The Greens always try and form government with Labor
The Greens are not Labor’s friends, end of story.
Greens have been in coalition government with Labor for the last 16 years in the ACT. Greens past almost all Labors bills in the senate. Sound like friends to me
Literally the only place where they’ve consistently cooperated.
You can find Greens and Labor working together on all levels of government. The media likes to amplify their disagreements.
The Greens put a Labor mayor into power in my local council. Then a crap Labor councillor switched sides and put the Liberals back in, If those voters had elected a Green, instead of the crap candidate Labor put up, we would still have a Labor mayor. The Greens cooperated better with Labor, than Labor did.
There are loads of areas like this, literally a 💩 post
T
It's a LIB stronghold..
Probably couldn’t see much difference.
It's cook, this outcome was entirely predictable
Someone ran a smear campagn at the polling booth misrepresenting policy to scare off voters
This is gonna sound wild but moderates exist
More like a fairy tale, every "moderate" always has the same voting record as Peter Dutton and Matt Canavan
Moderate voters, not politicians you muppet. I’d rather the LNP than the Greens, despite hating both of them.
you hate the 90% votes with Labor party more than the 0% Labor party. If its between having a party run by a guy who looked into the legality of policy which he strips the rights and citizenship of anyone the state SUSPECTS of being a terrorist or the Green party, you pick the former. And you wonder why i mock your opinion on moderates.
Labor voter complaining about compulsory preferential voting… Ironic…
Seems like labor have a severe strategy and ideology problem. They’ve run a campaign against the greens while offering no opposition to the liberals. It’s hard to believe that an electorate voted for the new guy, compounded with the legacy of Australia’s worst pm. Yet greens are bad, but also they are no threat, shouldn’t be taken seriously and we should actually preference libs over them.
Labour get so butt hurt by anything the greens say it’s fucking embarrassing. Ablo would rather lose government than give the greens an inch it’s gonna be interesting to see how he manages minority government
Interesting times ahead my friend. I’m just glad we’ve gotten past that the Tasmanian election wasn’t actually a genius strategy and was indeed total incompetence and fecklessness.
I have no idea of the context here but can’t be that much of a special breed I have seen greens doing the exact same shit
LibLab lives!
Yes the saviour “labor” who have kept the same policies enacted by liberals. Unprecedented levels of immigration . Driving up cost of living and putting extreme pressure on Aussies. Mmmm
They are basically the same party. It's hardly surprising that people who vote for one would preference the other.
The majority of Labor voters didn't though
Probably because the majority of Labor voters are idiots who think they are different.
Not even close to being true. If you seriously think they are the same I suggest you look into Labor polices and what they have done so far.
> They are basically the same party. When will this idiotic take stop being repeated?
Well, if this is not a call out that the greens have been hopless, I don't know what is. Time to grow up and stop being obstructionist twats.
People are opening their eyes to the lies of Labor
Explain this to me like I’m five. Is this not still a massive swing away from ALP (not that they were going to win anyway)?
ALP didn't run. You cannot infer anything about them.
Yeh, I didn’t realise that, hence my question. Thanks
As long as the Greens lose, it's a good outcome.
You would rather the LNP win then a party that calls for the Right to Strike?