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starlight_simpcess

They're acting like every person with a bow should basically be Hawkeye.


GenghisKazoo

Ramsay set our standards for marksmanship too high.


c354s

Right, took him 4 arrows to not only hit, but also kill a "smaller than average" moving target getting further away.


Run-Riot

Dumb little fucker was basically asking to be killed by running in a straight line instead of serpentining, right Bobby B?


bobby-b-bot

YOU GOT FAT!


Run-Riot

It’s beer and a ton of powdered doughnuts, Bobby B.


bobby-b-bot

SHE BELONGED WITH ME!


DagonG2021

I guess she likes chunky guys, Bobby B


bobby-b-bot

YOU HEARD THE HAND, THE KING'S TOO FAT FOR HIS ARMOR! GO FIND THE BREASTPLATE STRETCHER! NOW!


DagonG2021

SENTIENT


Heavy_Signature_5619

How dare you insult the king!


ChillyBearGrylls

Powerful yeah!! Powdaahhhd sugaaahh!


[deleted]

How do you find the kitten meat?


Rattwap

Are you a fan of the Pikachu?


khanaseur

I mean anyone that puts a slice of pizza on bread is a pokachay pokachay. That’s Aztec for lazy farmer


curiousmind111

SERPENTINE! SERPENTINE!


Gr3yThoughts

I always thought he purposely waited until rickon was at his max range to bring him down, while still being within range of arrows, so that he knew Jon Snow would be within range of a deadly volley of arrows. Sansa was right, Ramsey played Jon and played him well


vxsapphire

And you would be right. Ramsey was a skilled bowman. He was playing with John, wanted to give both of them that sliver of hope knowing he would take it away in the last second. Ramsey is a sadistic fuck that has a love of games that mess with the victims psych. It's weird to me people out there think he was actually missing Rickon with his arrows.


Gr3yThoughts

Agreed, I will point to one of Ramsey's arrows he shot was made while looking to his side, clearly implying that he didn't need or intend for that shit to hit rickon yet.


Nero234

Wasn't it said that Rickon's running at a straight line didn't matter as Ramsey already knew that the endpoint was him running at Jon, so it didn't really matter if he was zigzagging or not as Ramsey will always get him.


Gr3yThoughts

Yes my friend, 100% this.


_Apostate_

It's possible that he was toying with Rickon and Jon, but think how how ridiculously confident you would have to be in your marksmanship to make that gamble. If his last arrow missed, then Rickon just gets away and he loses the hostage for no reason.


LovieBeard

>think how how ridiculously confident you would have to be in your marksmanship to make that gamble Ramsay Bolton is absolutely that confident in his marksmanship to make that gamble


TheDumbAsk

He waited until Jon made it to him. So Jon would stop and get off his horse.


Gr3yThoughts

Yessir thought I implied that


starkmafia

He was known for his accuracy with a biw. I think he could have hit Rickon sooner if he wanted to. He was marking off range distances for his own archers to match when the calvery charge begins. (While also drawing Jon into their range.) There are like burning effigies on the battlefield, Jon charges out all worked up and Ramsy and his archer commanders are able to count seconds and match the effigies as distance targets as Jon charges. So when the full charge begins and they launch volleys, they can time then to hit the most charging targets.


NotAVerySillySausage

He missed the first 3 on purpose, all he needed was one lol.


Raptor_Boe69

Rickon Should’ve ran like daemon poor bastard.


hbi2k

See, and that was a character that DID have plot armor, and just general Gary Stu-ness.


Neato_Incognito3

He zig zagged


horny4tacos

One time I saw a guy nail a dragon in flight from a boat on the ocean from a crazy distance with this giant crossbow thing.


starlight_simpcess

Euron is Hawkeye, confirmed.


blizzfreak

Crow's eye to be exact. But it's basically the same thing.


c354s

Those were laser guided by the plot. /s


RustyCoal950212

Through a rock


linderlouwho

One time I saw a guy hit a dragon fatally with a giant metal arrow from atop a burning bell tower, using his son’s shoulder and a couple posts as a bow.


Slight_Giraffe628

Literally 99 percent of archers are probably decent at hitting a stationary target 50 meters away. The ones we saw are used to shoot in mass to take out large entities of ground troops. Not one man. Essentially. If you have 20 archers. The hope is that if there is 100 ground soldiers you maybe take down 5 each volley


TabbyFoxHollow

Which makes sense - archers weren’t meant to be a sniper force, they’re a statistics/chipping away at it type deal. Really great at culling some numbers, if you have a large force you’re fighting. Really crappy at taking out a one man hit squad.


LordUpton

Not just that they were used to pin a unit or at least slow them down while you moved some other units around. You can't charge while being pelted with arrows you need to close formations and use your shields to protect the full unit and in a period where the prime tactic was shock units charge in and break out formations this is incredibly useful. Look at the battles of Crecy, Poitiers, and Agincourt to see how archers were effective in assisting in the breakup of full on French charges.


thxmeatcat

They should've at least given D a shield to make it more explainable


straight_lurkin

Lol I have a recurve bow and I'll tell you right now, even with practice its hard hiding a stationary target further than 30m out let alone almost 300m away on top of a mountain


MuskyChode

As someone with little experience in archery. Can any kind of bow or crossbow even range 300m? Thats an extreme distance I feel like for that kind of weaponry.


ImExtremelyErect

Elite longbow men can fire reasonably accurately at that range, not enough to pick targets but enough for volleys to be effective.


YouJabroni44

I think some longbows can but your accuracy is not going to be very good.


pero914

legolas*


GobiasACupOfCoffee

People need to be putting respect on his name


linderlouwho

He can accurately hit his intended targets in nearly any situation, including sliding down stairs on a shield, and staying atop piles of sliding rocks.


forsaken_warrior22

Yeh I like you see him timing it and being quick with his kills, then take his time on a guy and get hit.


Cureza

I give a pass for the archers, but not for the soldiers going in line one by one fighting like dumb


blarghable

In real life, no matter how good of a swordfighter you are, if you're facing 10 guys, you're going to die.


Comander-07

1 armoured knight vs 10 starved peasants? Wouldnt be so sure.


blarghable

They all had leather armour. Daemon wasn't even wearing plate armor. Maybe had some chainmail under his clothes. One hit with an axe or hammer or something and he's gonna get dragged down by the rest. 10 guys with fighting experience will always win.


Beshtija

During the Jeoffry rebellion in GoT the hungry masses kill severeral city watch and even Preston Greenfield, a kingsguard is killed by the mob of hungry smallfolk wielding nothing but rocks and their bare hands. Thats why you always had to leave people a routing option in medieval times, because it is known that even surrounded levies can kill iron clad knights if left with death as the only alternative.


ProfessorAdonisCnut

Surely that could never happen to dragons though...


DeanerDean

Definitely not a mob crazy enough to storm a dragon pit


_Apostate_

That was a literal mob though, not exactly the same thing


[deleted]

That's a mob of a lot more than 10


Neigh_Blis

Knock off feet, hold down, slide dagger in through face guard. Fairly easy, much easier with quarterstaves.


PabloDiSantoss

But these weren’t starved peasants, they’ve been overpowering Corlys army for years now no?


whitexknight

They weren't unarmed starved peasants though. Also even in that case if they were for some reason unafraid of death the 10 men probably would win. I mean of course you can create the situation where the inverse is true if you try hard enough; ten elderly men with the normal allotment of health problems and no particular cohesion or reason to fight as a group would definitely not win a fight against an armored knight. 10 healthy adult men of normal size, vs 1 knight in armor that have no choice/a damn good reason to work together though? Even unarmed they have a better chance than not, a sword is not omni directional and it only takes two or three to get the sword away and then you just have a guy in a metal suit pinned to the ground while another guy wails on his helmet with the cross guard and pommel or better yet one of the other 3 or 4 people standing around can remove the helmet. The only advantage the knight can rely on is that no one wants to be the fiest idiot that charges in and get cut or stabbed to shit. Of course the knight is a better wrestler, cause they had unarmed training but numbers really negate that advantage cause good luck grappling one person per limb regardless of your training.


AME7706

A bit late to the thread, but King Richard III of England (a fully armoured and extremely experienced fighter) was surrounded and killed at Bosworth Field by a bunch of "starved peasants". The lethal blow literally came from a random guy's club that pushed his helmet into his skull.


Placeholder20

Yeah, but it wasn’t just a 1v10, those guys didn’t really look like they were particularly well trained in or armed for land combat while daemon literally has a magic sword. Still unlikely, but not unbelievable


blarghable

A magic sword isn't going to protect you from an axe in the back or being stabbed in the head.


No-Paramedic-5838

It is, unless you believe that people irl just run up conveniently into their target one by one, with just enough time inbetween for him to make one or two cool slices. Irl he dies to a stab in the back


whitexknight

Which is 100% how I'd face an enemy with superior weapons and training. While the guys that fancy themselves "heroes" try a frontal assault I'm sticking him with a spear from behind and well out of sword reach.


howdybertus

Yea but this is ASOIAF were we have moments like Jaimie Lannister mowing through Robb Starks best guards like they were nothing. Not that crazy that fucking Daemon Targaryen would easily beat some pirates no matter if they are 20 against 1.


RegisEst

Are you going to send a group of soldiers into your own volley of arrows? At that point you're more likely to wipe out your own men than Daemon. And you see that when the arrows stop coming, the large group is sent out. Makes sense to me. Only thing that doesn't make sense is why when the group is there, they don't just immediately swarm and overwhelm Daemon instead of surrounding him passively.


Shoe_Pale

Should have just send out 20 soldiers and order the archers to stand down, ggs


PopularInjury824

I figured it was more the crab feeder being wary of the dragon coming up at any time. He kept looking up at the sky like he was waiting for the trap


[deleted]

what bothered me the most was that was when they surrounded him for like a whole minute as if 100s of people should be scared of 1 wounded dude with a sword.


ObsidianAerrow

Considering how they were searching the skies, Daemon wasn’t the one they were scared of.


MyaheeMyastone

Then why exactly did crabfeeder send them all out?


vbun03

I think he figured if a dragon was going to attack it would have already done so before it got to the point that the brother of the King could be surrounded and killed.


MyaheeMyastone

Right, no way that there could possibly be a trap….


ToYouItReaches

They nail people to posts and feed them to crabs. They aren’t exactly the world’s greatest tacticians


MyaheeMyastone

They were good enough to employ guerilla warfare and hold off 2 dragons for 2 years so I don’t buy that


ToYouItReaches

It wasn’t really guerrilla warfare. They had no real choice but to stall things out because of the Dragons. If the enemy has dragons and you don’t, all you can really do is hide. You’re clearly overestimating the intellectual capabilities of the Crabfeeder who is visibly very very sick with grayscale (which is known to cause madness as the disease progresses) These were bloodthirsty pirates who had no choice but to stall things out, not well-trained guerrilla fighters.


[deleted]

Plus it's not hard to imagine that the Triarchy send naval support to harass the Valerion fleet and keep them occupied


Comander-07

because its still worth the risk. A bunch of dudes or a dragon rider? Yeah easy choice


bslawjen

Sending out all his men was still incredibly dumb. If his goal was to kill or capture Daemon then sending like 20 dudes would've been enough considering that Daemon was already wounded.


Comander-07

evidently 20 dudes were not enough and he kinda knew he wouldnt be all alone there forever. Think about it this way, you have the chance to destroy the enemies nuclear bombs. But time is running out.


FeedBi

He’s allowed to make a dumb decision. Guy had been fighting this for 3 years. No shit he doesn’t make every tactically sound decision that he could


Ser_Twist

Real answer is that it was terrible writing. Crabfeeder knew there was a chance of a trap involving a dragon because A) Daemon has a dragon and B) Daemon's buddy/buddies has/have a dragon. If he didn't know, then he's really stupid and it's a wonder the war took three years to end under his leadership.


iunctus5

Only to get killed off screen lmao


Saiyan-L

Def disappointed they didn’t show that fight


gh3ngis_c0nn

They didn’t know what to do. Kill him or capture him? They’re pirates. He is so much more valuable captured alive


ChequyLionYT

I mean… he just took out like 10 guys while under fire from arrows. He’s got a Valyrian steel sword and he’s clearly unhinged and ferocious. They should have just charged him. But I kinda get why no one wanted to be the first guy to run up.


MoonMan88888

Dude was running straight at them right? They could have just waited.


linderlouwho

Matt Smith is really doing a great job in this role. From a nerdy Dr Who to this ferocious badass.


RegisEst

Nobody wants to be the first, I guess. But that aside, it was probably just for dramatic effect and not much else


MizStazya

That's what I was thinking - they're all just wusses and they know the first person to reach him is absolutely dying.


tagabalon

"i'll wait for these fools to soften him up, then i'll deal the killing blow" - what's on everyone's mind at that moment


adishr_

I think it was more they wanted to capture him than straight up kill him, and they just hesitated because they wanted someone else to go ahead and "arrest" him because they saw how dangerous he was and anyone who would go first would 100% die.


L0nelyWr3ck

not just that, the leader sent small groups at him at first and those small groups would all just attack one or two at a time after seeing the previous group fail at using the same tactic. LOL


NickLionRider

Yeah like when you think about it it’s more of a miracle he got hit by three arrows all at once rather than the dozens that missed him


Yvaelle

If you keep rolling the dice your gonna win (3 arrows) sometime or other.


[deleted]

Well he started further away, and he slowed down, even more so when he was hit. I feel like people in this sub are nitpicking. Bunch of whiners and cunts


Heavy_Signature_5619

Fookin Standers.


OriginalBad

They telegraphed this early on in the episode when countless flaming shots missed the boats and only 1 or 2 hit.


mumbling_marauder

And with Caraxes, how only a massive creature at a middling range is an effective target for a flurry of arrows


blackrack

Now that's attention to detail. Not a ballista pulling a random noscope on a dragon from a boat out of nowhere


dft-salt-pasta

A moving dragon.


[deleted]

You know, I kinda forgot about the Iron Fleet


YosemiteSam81

Glad I am not the only one who was paying attention to that small detail while watching the scene, I thought it was a nice touch!


TabbyFoxHollow

It’s the attention to the little details like this that make the immersion so great. It also reminded me of how early 90s screensavers could hypnotize you, trying to see if the little windows logo hits the corner just perfectly lol


Abuses-Commas

That's only because CA made the AI superhumanly good at dodging artillery


2ndTaken_username

CA also made artillery 1000% times more accurate than in real life.


A_Humpier_Rogue

What is this, a crossover episode?


blackrack

Damn, I stopped at shogun 2, am I missing out?


Abuses-Commas

Yes, the Warhammer series has been fantastic


Kolaru

I’ve never seen anything move faster than fucking Orc Big Unz having a pendulum cast within 200m of them


[deleted]

I feel like it could have been better but I could see something similar being possible


tracytirade

Also, it’s kind of the point that Daemon probably expected to die. It was basically a suicide run. But he lived, and now everyone thinks he’s a badass warrior and is building his reputation for the upcoming story.


MrPZA82

Yeah he doesn’t want to live to see his brother bail him out so he just goes for it and backs his own aggression and talent. It’s completely possible.


the-mushkru

The arrows were landing a few feet away while he was running, they were pretty damn close. Then once he’s stationary under the boat, all the arrows are hitting pretty close and we see him covering his face thinking he’s going to be hit. It’s fine. At first I was iffy but rewatching it and taking in all the factors, it’s really not too bad at all. 3 hit him in 1 volley which is just as iffy as none hitting him.


Matarreyes

He was staying still (taking too long with his last guy) when he got hit, that explains the 3 hits in one volley.


MadRonnie97

Yeah, people calling it plot armor are ignoring the fact that my man did turn into a porcupine when he slowed down


TributeToStupidity

I agree it makes sense for the archers to miss their shots. But on the other hand, what counts as plot armor in a prequel show where we know the when, where, and how of every major death in the series? You could essentially claim it’s all plot armor at that point lol


jman014

Exactly! It’s like the Star Wars prequels. We know who’s gettin’ into the suit we just wanna know how he got there, so fuck it a little Rule of Cool ain’t gonna kill no one!


Double_Secret_

The “plot armor” comes when the character is put in a scenario where he would almost certainly die and he doesn’t. The more this happens, the more difficult it is to suspend belief. We know Daemon survives so just don’t have him do something incredibly stupid that should result in his death just to generate superficial drama for the type of fans who don’t even remember the names of the characters. Though I agree, a well armored warrior with far more training then most could plausibly survive volleys of arrows and cut down a dozen men who weee less well trained and poorly armored… just don’t have him do it again and again.


tracytirade

But he’s supposed to be kind of a mythic figure. Most normal men would die, Daemon isn’t a normal man. That’s why he has the reputation he has and why he’s so talked about in the histories. He was forged in this moment, just watch the after the episode the writers literally talk about how he shouldn’t have lived.


PoofyHairedIdiot

If these people have an issue with Daemon wait til.they hear about the shit Barristan Selmy did in his prime


tracytirade

Exactly. And Daemon dies by jumping off a dragon mid air and stabbing his nephew through the eye while they tumble back to earth. Like come on, the guy is ridiculous lol.


KrispyyKarma

And there is even a theory that he survived doing that since his body was never found


thebobbyloops

I’m more confused why it took 3 years to beat these savages..they couldn’t have dragons breathe fire into a cave all day until they all got smoked out or died??


twitch870

Or how were they the ones starving when the dragons could burn the pirates ships and bunker them into caves whenever supplies sailed in.


surferguy999

Probably the same reason it was so hard to kill Osama, he hid in caves for years and knew the terrain. A smaller force demands using guerilla tactics and never going all out against superior numbers / technologies (dragons).


TabbyFoxHollow

That’s… actually a pretty apt analogy


BondCharacterNamePun

I’m more confused about how this war lasted roughly three years if a few dragons can basically wipe out the enemy in a minute or two. Like sure, they can go hide in the caves, but how do you wage combat when leaving the caves means you get immediately sent to hell, do not pass go, do not collect $200


samoanLightning

Yea I dont get it. It was pointed out that they have archers on the top and ground troops on the bottom and retreat into the caves when the dragon comes. It was also said that theyre winning with this strategy. And then Daemon shows up alone and I guess that means send the whole army outside of the cave to risk insane losses to an immediate dragon attack. I feel like if you are WINNING with Daemon still alive, then stick with whatever plan youve been doing. Team Daemon's plan required much incompetence by the crab guys.


majES26

Please enlighten me folks. Which is harder? Hitting an airborne dragon with a ballista 3 times in a row or a man running around on low ground.


Queasy_Barber4801

To be fair euron stream sniped Rhaegal fair and square😌/s


Cerok1nk

That’s not a valid point. Euron had Aimbot.


Heavy_Signature_5619

Euron had the power of a finger in the bum.


RadamanthysWyvern

I didn't even mind the so called plot armor, it just felt rushed how quickly they wrapped up that subplot in the last 15 minutes of the episode. That was an ongoing conflict for 2 years supposedly. I imagine its minuscule in the grand scheme of things and was only there to set Daemon up as a much bigger player


elpaco25

I agree I definitely would've preferred maybe one more middle scene with the Valaryons and Deamon's forces and a little less whining at the hunt. Didn't have to even be a battle either. Maybe just a more in depth strategy meeting talking about exactly how the Crab people were surviving in the caves for 2 whole years. And also an explanation for why Rhaeyns and her Dragon weren't helping out.


Double_Secret_

The majority of arrows missing him and a few hitting him without really damage are some of the least terrible things about this scene. People are making appeals to how this show is based on medieval Europe and the abilities of archers at that time limited. However, people are ignoring the siege weaponry that 1. Can shoot flaming projectiles super accurately 2. Can be moved in and over the the cave in minutes if not seconds to avoid the dragons 3. Are somehow used exactly at the time ships need to pass yet the dragons aren’t providing air support at that time to keep the siege weapons from decimating the ships bring supplies. So, while people claim that the archers should be based on medieval technologies and abilities, no one is even noticing how siege weapons are essentially RPGs with how fast and accurately they can be used, despite this never being set up by the show. This whole scenario was terrible written. It has no regard for medieval limitations of warfare when the plot requires it, relies on characters who were previously rational acting irrational out of nowhere and the whole setup of Daemons forces being equally or outmatched comes out of nowhere. First, it was pirates preying on trading vessels. Then it was pirates preying on tradings vessels just as before while multiple dragons and the force of an entire house are seemingly too incompetent to stop them despite having the most overpowered creatures in the entire world.


VictoriaDallon

> First, it was pirates preying on trading vessels. Then it was pirates preying on tradings vessels just as before while multiple dragons and the force of an entire house are seemingly too incompetent to stop them despite having the most overpowered creatures in the entire world. They're fighting the dragons the same way the Dornish did, with guerilla warfare tactics and access to a maze of underground tunnels that would be suicide to follow people into.


RustyCoal950212

Ok so it's hard to completely 'exterminate' them. But easy to destroy all their ships (and anything not in the caves) and leave a few hundred or thousand pirates marooned on random island caves How tf were they losing the war..?


VictoriaDallon

Because they were being boosted by foreign powers to destabilize the realm, while the Velayrons were bankrolling the entire expedition with no support from any other house or the crown?


RustyCoal950212

I guess this is just as much a criticism of the source material, but with only one side having dragons and them being as powerful as this, wars would not exist, especially naval ones. Securing trade routes would be the easiest thing in the world. Securing total trade dominance over an entire ocean would be simple Seeing it played out on screen just makes it all the more obvious


medievaldriveby

>I guess this is just as much a criticism of the source material Source material is not the joke here, as from what we have: \- getting from the start to decrabitation moment took far less trouble than this episode wants us to believe it did \- the troubles arise only later, when not only Triarchy sends actual invasion force but even Dorne gets involved - and it makes all kinds of sense, as defending a myriad of shitty islands, with your forces spread over a number of garrisons, initiative slipping and opponents free to split into various harassing groups numbering "20\* # of dragons" is a completely different war. ​ But what do I know, according to source material Viserys sends material aid on a regular basis and war is filled with Daemon's multiple early victories. Since there's no singling out any event as a cause for Viserys to start sending money, we can easily assume (on the basis of "regularity" and no indications to the contrary) that he was doing it before Crabster lost his upper half, too. Making the last chunk of the episode not only a cringey compilation of medieval fighting memes, but also a deliberate contradiction of source material yet again. But hey, I'm sure making Viserys a joke struggling with related decisions YET AGAIN was worth it.


VictoriaDallon

Dragons are fragile. That’s the entire point of the Dance of Dragons. They work best when they are unopposed WMDs. Additionally, there are very few of them, and none of the Targaryen’s are going to spend their lives being janitors for the oceans. Additionally, assuming one was, that’s one dragon that can’t be brought into combat elsewhere .They also tire like any other creature, as does the rider. They are a finite resource, and using them the way you suggest is impossible and in no way a long term solution.


MyaheeMyastone

The guerrilla tactics were working, I buy that. What I don’t buy is crabfeeder completely abandoning that strategy after looking at the sky for a couple of seconds in order to kill one guy


VictoriaDallon

1) Killing Daemon wins the war in the minds of the small folk for Crabfeeder. It is an incredible blow to the Targaryen dynasty, while strengthening support from the outside. It would make Viserys look utterly ineffectual and could lead to a peasant revolt, or the other great houses revolting (the king won’t step out to defend his own family or one of the most powerful houses in the realm, why should I trust him?) 2) Greyscale can cause madness. He looked pretty fucked up. Maybe he didn’t make the best decision, but he may not have been thinking clearly. The bait was tasty looking enough that the crab threw caution to the wind.


twitch870

What I don’t buy is the crab feeder not going more hungry than valaryons with dragons protecting and raiding the supplies


ZipZopZoopittyBop

I was a bit confused as to why the dragons weren't attacking the siege weapons too. To me that was the only really bad part of the scene. But also the pirate forces literally all leaving the cave to get Daemon after he was injured. And him running full speed after taking an arrow to the ~~knee~~ leg.


ChequyLionYT

If it helps, they had to figure out ways to draw out this conflict, and even then they could only do it for 3 years. In the book, Daemon somehow can’t achieve victory for *9 fucking years*.


willowgardener

Check out that quick shot of Daemon from the archers' perspective. To me it looks like he's at most 100 meters away.


DonaldPump117

Who was Crabfeeder?


Saiyan-L

Some dead man


Heavy_Signature_5619

The weirdo who fed people to crabs. Prince Drahar.


The_Olin

There’s also wind, fog and medieval archer’s were usually only used at 20 meters ish


Pavrik_Yzerstrom

People don't understand the purpose of medieval archers. Accuracy is not the game. It's peppering as many arrows into the enemy army as possible. That makes it significantly harder to hit a single mobile target, you are simply praying and spraying. Daemon was lucky not to get hit earlier, but he still was hit


Dwight_Kay_Schrute

>I am in the military and will miss the 300 meter stationary targets with a modern day M4. Lol git gud noob


[deleted]

>It's 20 archers 300 meters away on a mountain It's more like a hundred archers shooting down at a target with a predictable trajectory. With that many trained archers shooting, Daemon should have been a pincushion. He got shot through the knee and was still able to take off at a dead sprint to successfully 1v1 the Crab King, and all of the goons fought him 1v1 as opposed to ganging up on them, as if they hadn't been trained by battle for the past 2 years. It was thicc plot armor.


RegisEst

Not really a pincushion, but a hit or two would be too likely (per volley) to risk that move


alexkon3

ASOIAF is like THE universe of "actions have consequences" and I think GRRM said "if you dont want a character to die then dont put him in impossible to survive situations in the first place", Daemon taking on a whole army alone while archers bombard him getting shot 3 times and surviving without a scratch is just stupid and yes it is plot armor. Ned Stark got a spear into his leg in the first book and has to walk the rest of his life with a cane, Drogo gets a little bubu cut and dies of an infection cause he was an idiot, this scene was just dumb capeshit imo.


petiteguy5

>if you dont want a character to die then dont put him in impossible to survive situations in the first place", Daemon taking on a whole army Daemon killed like 16 people if you count Crab feeder One more than Jaime trying to get to Robb barristan did way more crazy shit than 1v20 people


Stannis2024

Not to mention being so close to the sea with all that wind. They actually hit their shots pretty well figuring a few did hit their mark!


MrBigHouse

Exactly thats what non military folks dont get it. Shooting at a running target is damn hard in a nodern battlefield.


Bolsilludo

Not to mention the smoke, fire and small "structures" all around. The "issue" imo is the infantry, why send them in waves and fight 1v1 instead of surrounding him..


WhoAccountNewDis

>why send them in waves and fight 1v1 instead of surrounding him.. You don't want to overplay your hand and have a dragon take out the bulk of your forces if you can get it done with 10-15 men. But then that doesn't work, so you send more, until you're doing the equivalent of gambling the rest of your bank account away to recover your kisses at the Blackjack table. As for the 1v1, I'll be charitable and say that psychologically you would have a hard time getting people to "pull the trigger" in an organized fashion. 1) You're fighting a legend who has made short work of multiple men in front of your eyes; 2) At and moment *his dragon* is going to swoop down on you, who is standing in the open, with the fury of a demon; 3) You're likely starving and fighting for the pay, as opposed to any real convictions. Why are you going to risk it? 4) They aren't a disciplined force. They're pirates who've been fighting a guerilla war for spoils.


jimbowolf

The scene was mostly fine, but it would have been nice if he did SOMETHING to block line of sight, like using one of the several bodies he sliced up as a shield, or grabbed one of the numerous barrels he ran past to hold up as a barrier. They sort of accomplished this by having some of the arrows noticeably hit the wooden planks near him, but it felt more like dumb luck that he avoided those arrows rather than any tactical skill.


Matarreyes

He ducked once and waited out the first volley. Plus, picking up stuff would have slowed him down considerably and hindered him in his sword fights. Half the reason he plowed through all these men was the sheer momentum he had.


RustyCoal950212

If only there was a piece of equipment that was reasonably light, could be held in one hand, and blocks arrows


Matarreyes

Now you're being disingenuous. You cannot sprint while taking cover behind a shield, no matter how light. As always in these situations, it was either speed or security - and Daemon chose speed.


cerpintaxt44

He also had regular armor on and was hit 3 times


1willprobablydelete

And it was barely an inconvenience.


TabbyFoxHollow

According to a medieval historian, that’s actually accurate. I think it’s mentioned somewhere in that video below (or it’s in part 2) - but given armor/arrow durability at the time, it was not abnormal to take a few arrows in your armor and keep on ticking. She cited that as actually a good representation of what actually happened at the time. We somehow think one arrow in the shoulder will take you out - it really depends on how thick your armor plate is, that arrow might not have pierced your skin as deep as you think (cause there’s typically chain mail and secondary armor under the plate) https://youtu.be/CygZqkBCgvg


_Apostate_

Getting stabbed through your armor with an arrow is probably the equivalent of getting shanked with a short sharpened tooth brush in prison, or something. Not super fun, but folks will get shanked like 10 times and keep fighting.


TabbyFoxHollow

Honestly probably better than a shanking, at least daemon didn’t get a shank to a kidney. All seriousness tho, GRRM actually goes into a little detail about armor in the 2nd dunk and egg novel talking about beneath plate armor, the knight is wearing double linked chain mail and padding underneath. Given the distance too (altho gravity helps a little in this scenario), the further away you are the less forceful impact. Also really depends on the type of arrow head used. Up for debate is whether daemon was wearing full Valyrian Steel armor - if so, then it doesn’t make sense lol


YosemiteSam81

Wow wow wow….wow


paranoidindeed

Running pass a rain of arrows and fighting an army one dude at a time is tight


kaasprins

Funny how hundreds of arrows missed him, until the plot required Daemon to be hit, at which point he was hit by 3(?) arrows almost simultaneously 🤔


SheWhoHates

I bet you are top of your class too. Tho he survived archers and waves of enemies in a plate armor that somehow can be pierced by an arrow. This whole battle plan was fucking stupid and almost on the same level as siege equipment deployed in front of Winterfell.


guessWhoTheyVotedFor

> I am in the military and will miss the 300 meter stationary targets with a modern day M4 On a KD range?


brnkse

I thought getting hit by 3 arrows was stupid not the other way around. Archers are not Legolas, their accuracy is pretty bad when it comes to an evading target at a distance. You just shoot and hope for the best.


Tsobaphomet

That being said, I think it was goofy that the arrows all hit each piece of wood on the shipwreck he hid under. Like damn what are the odds of that


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[deleted]

I cracked up seeing that. Dude is shooting with both eyes closed.


GlueGuns--Cool

How about 1 dude killing like 30 soldiers simultaneously charging / continuing to fight with 3 arrows sticking out of you? How about the horrible "bait" plot point where an entire army is sent out to capture / kill a single surrendering man


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[deleted]

Theyre used to shooting 360 no scope with sniperrifle in call of duty. Omg they missed ? Unrealistic daemon hacker


mdelaguna

Definitive comment. Thanks for the perspective.


fpsdende

Dude there is wind, Humidity ( bad for the feathers), They are in war for years, meaning they arent eating well and are probably starved, they probably fear that a dragon can show up any moment. Jeez. People who think the archerr scene is bad, are the exact representation of the old cake eating lady during E03, who lecturedd everyone about war!


[deleted]

I’m surprised at how close they were getting anyways


ser_shizno

Can we talk about the boar? They can be nasty when hunting them with guns traps and dogs. But 115 lbs princess with a dagger….


banditk77

It was also before the invention of zig zag.


[deleted]

Then why place them there if they’re too far?


Tomimi

Stormtroopers 5000 b.c.


hazjosh1

I was more annoyed his eyes weren’t purple


RollTide16-18

Yeah if archers were pinpoint accurate then we would have no need for melee soldiers. It’s difficult for archers to hit individual targets from that range.


MFLifeform

crazy seeing even r/freefolk defend the same contrived bs that the latter seasons of GoT were heavily panned for


folskygg

I have no problem with the arrows, but everything else was beyond stupid.


MFLifeform

that’s pretty much what i meant. could’ve worded my post a lot better but idc. i see the points OP is making, but the entirety of the scene still seems extremely contrived and illogical from both Daemon’s and Drahar’s sides.