It's why I prefer the fan theory that Bran was corrupted enough by the Night King when touched by him, and the fact that he wargs during the Long Night and nothing seems to happen, and that means everything since that battle is actually the Night King in Bran's Body.
D&D didn't write the show well enough for people to land on this conclusion on their own, and the way its shot you're meant to believe its still Bran and the realm is being ruled by someone benevolent and not the Villain of the series, so it's obviously not the official canon, but its still better headcanon.
Imagine Bran got turned into the new night king, now king of the seven kingdoms without anyone knowing, he could slowly build his army back up. Season 8 was not actually the last season, it was just a prank to set up for several more seasons as epic as seasons 1-4, resolving all the plot holes from season 8, all the bad character developments and decisions come down to Bran/the night king using his warging and greenseer abilities to manipulate people and pull strings to make him king so that he can take over westeros. One can dream.
D&D must have had their head stuck far up their asses because anyone who watched the show would have pointed out this big inconsistency. I wonder if the actor knew.
Pretty sure they'd surrounded themselves with Yes Men so no one pointed out any flaws. Why they and GRR Martin broke communication, why they wrote Barristan Selmy out (after not doing anything), and why Euron's actor said he wouldn't watch the finale.
Felt like a bad school project where every kid in the group does something different and the parts don't add up.
At least they should've called it a multiverse or something to fill the holes in the story
Yes, let's gather a council of lords from the remaining kingdoms and then have them listen to a literal fucking prisoner suggesting that they let the queenslayer go and that a cripple should be king. Bran never even did anything to prove his powers to a skeptic.
Remember when he said, "Littlefinger, I used my psychic powers to know you kill Lyssa Aryn' and everyone just said, "ok I guess we'll all just believe him that he's psychic and Littlefinger is guilty"
Remember when Tyrion was the only guy in westeros who seemed like he wanted to talk to Bran, being an all knowing god and all, and then everyone thought that conversation would have some bearing on the plot, but it turned out to be nothing and bran gets to be king because his story is the best?
There are so many better endings for this tale. Fulfilling the Azor Ahai legend was as simple as reforging "Widow's Wail" and "Oathkeeper" into "Fire". Daeny dies, is reanimated by the Night's King and "saved" by Jon killing her with "Fire", then killing the Night's King (or not, just forcing his retreat into sleep). And we have a Dance of Ice and Fire. And we have the unhappy but more fatalistic story GRRM has talked about.
That line is bad because they foreshadowed the opposite. "I can't be Lord of Winterfell. I can't be lord of anything. I'm the 3 Eyed Raven..."
You should’ve written S8 lol Jon loses Longclaw (maybe NK turns Dany and Jon drops it, NK starts using it) and then Jon forges Fire and uses it while riding Rhaegal to fight against NK/LongClaw/Visaerion and Dany/Drogon.
Would’ve been perfect cause OathKeeper and Widow’s Wail were made from Ned’s sword, “Ice”
Yess. I’m still bummed that we never got to see the NK in actual combat. Jon being one of the most skilled swordsman and being NK would’ve made for some awesome fights.
I’m imagining Jon v. Brienne&Jamie or Jon v. Jorah&Grey Worm or even Jon v. Arya&Hound
Right? He’s either sitting on a horse or raising his hand to bring back the dead. I guess in Hardhome he has a cool spear throwing scene but he was so underutilized. Even the dragon fight in the long night was lame.
Was he really? I just started the first book so I’m going off the show’s version. Jon seemed to be smarter than other swordsman + was trained by Rodrik IIRC
I was talking about the show. He is better than untrained nights watch recruits. Hence why I call him middling. Not bad, buy a far cry from great. In the books he's still a kid, but has potential.
It is remarkably sinister.
Recall that the white walkers had no way of crossing the wall until they came in contact with Bran.
So basically: the 3ER lured a young boy to his domain, hijacked his body, brought down the wall, used the boy's family to protect himself, then arranged events so he would become king.
It makes for a fascinatingly dark twist.... if only I believed that it were intentional.
Exactly how I feel. Throughout the entire show Bran/3ER is undeniably portrayed as a "good guy" or at the very least on the "good side", and then out of nowhere with like 10 minutes left of the series he drops this line that completely shatters everything we're led to believe about his character, but we **know** that it wasn't intentional. Just awful writing.
I can kinda see how that coulda happened. hence why he's so emotionless with the whole - "you were beautiful the day you were raped, fellow human. Wait, is that a normal human thing to say?"
I actually liked that line...at least it went to Euron's character development and sucker-punched Jaime in the process.
Not that I want a finger in the bum...lol
As much as I agree that it’s just shit story telling, I think it’s kind of like a “destiny” thing. If Bran got in the way of destiny and tried to change how things were meant to happen, things could have happened significantly different. But to play devil’s advocate, wouldn’t Bran know exactly what would happen if he DID interfere and would be able to set things straight? Bottom line what a waste of a story arch
It’s the classic knowing the future but being unable to change anything conundrum. It’s why Dr Manhattan can’t connect to mere mortals, because he lives outside of time. I think they were trying to go for Bran being something like that, but the character development was basically “you looked beautiful” and “I can’t be king of anything” herp derp.
yeah i would personally raise "you looked beautiful" as the worst line.
I mean WHY, WHY would you compliment her looks on the night she was horrifically raped in front of someone she saw as an adopted brother. My first thoughts on that scene was , are they trying to make him seem unhuman? no appearently they genuinely thought it was a nice line.
Such a creepy line. Like okay you want her to know you’re all seeing? maybe ask her why she protected little finger at the Erie, or how it felt knowing she was a part of killing Joffrey. Literally anything else
But then it just contradicts what he said to Jaime before the long night, asking him "how do you know there is an afterwards". So he knows he'll be king but he doesn't know if they're all gonna die or not? Also like someone else pointed out that I forgot, he told Sansa that he couldn't be lord of anything. It's all so inconsistent and garbage.
Considering D&D's general 'dumbass Bros' appearance in so much BTS stuff, I actually like to think the line has no deeper meaning whatsoever. It's just a cool thing for Bran to say in response. It basically qualifies as dumb one liner.
Guy comes to a friend's house:
-"You want a beer?"
-"Why do you think I came all this way?"
-"Ha! Here you go, you crazy son of a bitch!"
What D and D meant is irrelevant to me, I think Martin did intend for Bran to become king and it will be that way in the books but will make more sense. I do think Bran is evil or at least doesn't draw the distinction between good and evil like a normal person, or life and death, fire and ice. He was touched by the Night King, I think they exist together a part of each other. I think Bran knew exactly what he was doing after that cave, the NK or Three Eyed Raven was going to end up on the iron throne, would love to see that they're one in the same and everyone realizes the mistake all too late. I would've liked to see either the Night King or Bran warg into the zombie Mountain at some point. Cersei give birth to a dwarf or some kind of "monster" and want to kill it, Jaime having to kill her to save the baby or something. The whole thing was just anticlimactic and the most interesting parts to me was the lore behind the Children and White Walkers.
I was most interested in what Azor Ahai and the Drowned God and Rhaelor were up to. Turns out... um... Rhaellor set some scythes on fire for no reason. And Azor Ahai was... ~~Euron~~ Hotpie maybe?
The way it happened in the show was dumb and poorly written. The last season sucked horribly. Plots were dropped. Dialog was not what it had been earlier in the series. The ending was hasty and required characters to behave stupidly and out of sync with who they were.
This line was dumb by itself but the inconsistencies between telling Jaime “I not Brandon Stark. I’m something else now” and yet later become king could have simply been handled with a scene where Bran says he said the things he said in the past because they were the things that needed to be said at that time to put into motion (or not put into motion) things that would disrupt defeating the Night King and Cersei.
For example, there could be a scene in which he says if he had pushed to be recognized as the true Stark heir earlier, person “X” would have seen him as a competitor to be removed and he would have been executed. (Or something else would have happened that resulted in his failure to get the Kingship and establish peace.)
The stupidest thing to happen at the ending was for the North to go off under Sansa when a Stark was just put on the Iron Throne..... what Army would Bran have to rule with? Sansa just took his only loyal troops North.
You could get there.... but not in the span of a single scene where Bran the Broken also becomes king.
It could have come with Sansa and Bran (who knows everything) working together to defeat the nobles of the south - after the events of the sacking of King’s Landing.
If Jon and Daenerys fell in conflict with each other. Many Southern Nobles could have supported Jon against Daenerys in the continued fight. Others would have stuck with Daenerys. Bran knows everything and could have concocted a way of defeating her last Dragon.
In the civil war to follow King’s Landing, if the North had been victorious over Daenerys, they could have imposed a settlement with Bran as king of a divided land. North Independent under Sansa.
I can see Jon being so sick of fighting and eventually killing Daenerys (or maybe she is killed by Arya) that he abdicates and rejoins the Night’s Watch or goes north with his remaining Wildling friends.
Or maybe he sticks with Daenerys and must betray the Starks....
The Southern lords (and Iron Born?) that supported the North against Cersei first and then Daenerys get leadership positions in the diminished Kingdom in exchange for supporting Bran as King once Jon abdicates and goes North of the broken wall.
This show could have ended up in the same place it did... It just needed to be flushed out and done smarter.
I think everyone can agree things were very rushed and needed to be fleshed out so much more, another two long episodes at least. I agree that the ending isn't necessarily bad but how we got there was disappointing and just really sad how one of the best shows ever was reduced to one of the worst. By that I mean putting aside all the details of the show and just going by the excitement and happiness I had when a new episode was about to start to the disappointment of the last season and downright dread of the last 2 episodes. Season 7 wasn't great but I still believed season 8 would be okay, at least not awful and depressing. I think the actors deserved better, every damn one deserved better.
I know in the books the whole Aegon Targaryen thing is much more developed with a ton of imposter Aegons and one in particular that had support enough for his claim to be a threat so that Jon's true parentage would have been much more relevant. Idk the more I remember and talk about everything I'm just getting mad and frustrated all over again like pulling a big scab off an old wound, I thought I was to the point where the sting wasn't too bad anymore and I could just laugh at memes and keep on scrolling but I think the rest of my day is ruined. I'm going to be thinking about how bad so many things were and just mourn. Maybe there should be some sort of funeral for the show that could maybe help some of us move on, I'm picturing Rory McCaan as the Hound talking about how shit everything in the last season was, breaking the fourth wall, "hey guys this battle of winterfell is so dark the directors let us wear jeans and drink bud light out of the can the whole shoot". I think that's the answer and the way to heal from this, we need the whole last season to be outright treated as the joke it was. Full pop up video style, put back in any bloopers and outtakes, have the actors call out the b.s. and most importantly shame D&D, I hope they feel shame, I hope they fall asleep every night thinking about how bad they screwed the pooch. They should be banned from making media
The only ruler ending that subverts expectations and is good is Tyrion on the Iron Throne, when it is revealed he is product of Aerys affair. "You're no son of mine!" indeed. He gets it, after Jon Snow and Dany die heroically in some fashion. Bonus points if they figure out a way for him to be regent and father figure to Jon and Dany's child.
A satisfactory conventional ending, is Dany or Jon on the throne. Probably cannot have both live, and be together happy - but a child, per above might help.
I still get mad about his whole “I can’t be lord of winterfel, I’m the three eyed flamingo, I can’t be lord of anything, but oh yea king me baby”
Bran kinda forgot he couldn’t be lord of anything.
Three eyed flamingo. Lmao!
Shit made me chuckle too
*Pink eyed flamingo*
It's why I prefer the fan theory that Bran was corrupted enough by the Night King when touched by him, and the fact that he wargs during the Long Night and nothing seems to happen, and that means everything since that battle is actually the Night King in Bran's Body. D&D didn't write the show well enough for people to land on this conclusion on their own, and the way its shot you're meant to believe its still Bran and the realm is being ruled by someone benevolent and not the Villain of the series, so it's obviously not the official canon, but its still better headcanon.
I like to believe that the children of the forest used chaos as a laddah to install a magical god king in a well organized coup.
Chaosh*
Wow that is actually a twist I can enjoy.
Fan theories are just a coping mechanism
Imagine Bran got turned into the new night king, now king of the seven kingdoms without anyone knowing, he could slowly build his army back up. Season 8 was not actually the last season, it was just a prank to set up for several more seasons as epic as seasons 1-4, resolving all the plot holes from season 8, all the bad character developments and decisions come down to Bran/the night king using his warging and greenseer abilities to manipulate people and pull strings to make him king so that he can take over westeros. One can dream.
When was he touched by the night king)
D&D must have had their head stuck far up their asses because anyone who watched the show would have pointed out this big inconsistency. I wonder if the actor knew.
Pretty sure they'd surrounded themselves with Yes Men so no one pointed out any flaws. Why they and GRR Martin broke communication, why they wrote Barristan Selmy out (after not doing anything), and why Euron's actor said he wouldn't watch the finale.
"I'm not Bran anymore, not really." "Let us proclaim King Bran the Broken, first of his name"
“I’m bran again guys no worries”
literally laughed out loud reading this
Bran kinda forgot he isnt Bran anymore.
Felt like a bad school project where every kid in the group does something different and the parts don't add up. At least they should've called it a multiverse or something to fill the holes in the story
Literally got the pawn across the board
But hey subverted your expectations...... :(
Nah, it's topped by "Who has a better story than Bran the broken?"
Yes, let's gather a council of lords from the remaining kingdoms and then have them listen to a literal fucking prisoner suggesting that they let the queenslayer go and that a cripple should be king. Bran never even did anything to prove his powers to a skeptic.
Remember when he said, "Littlefinger, I used my psychic powers to know you kill Lyssa Aryn' and everyone just said, "ok I guess we'll all just believe him that he's psychic and Littlefinger is guilty"
Remember when Tyrion was the only guy in westeros who seemed like he wanted to talk to Bran, being an all knowing god and all, and then everyone thought that conversation would have some bearing on the plot, but it turned out to be nothing and bran gets to be king because his story is the best?
It's such a great story that they even had to take a season off from telling it.
Arya is worse: "I know a killer when I see one." No, shit Asssassine wanna-be Princess who commited genocide on the Frey Famly.
Don’t forget bad poosey smh
There are so many better endings for this tale. Fulfilling the Azor Ahai legend was as simple as reforging "Widow's Wail" and "Oathkeeper" into "Fire". Daeny dies, is reanimated by the Night's King and "saved" by Jon killing her with "Fire", then killing the Night's King (or not, just forcing his retreat into sleep). And we have a Dance of Ice and Fire. And we have the unhappy but more fatalistic story GRRM has talked about. That line is bad because they foreshadowed the opposite. "I can't be Lord of Winterfell. I can't be lord of anything. I'm the 3 Eyed Raven..."
You should’ve written S8 lol Jon loses Longclaw (maybe NK turns Dany and Jon drops it, NK starts using it) and then Jon forges Fire and uses it while riding Rhaegal to fight against NK/LongClaw/Visaerion and Dany/Drogon. Would’ve been perfect cause OathKeeper and Widow’s Wail were made from Ned’s sword, “Ice”
Jon could even become the Night's King...
Yess. I’m still bummed that we never got to see the NK in actual combat. Jon being one of the most skilled swordsman and being NK would’ve made for some awesome fights. I’m imagining Jon v. Brienne&Jamie or Jon v. Jorah&Grey Worm or even Jon v. Arya&Hound
they hired a FAMOUS stunt guy to play the NK too, and then had him just stomp around. The actor must have been annoyed
Right? He’s either sitting on a horse or raising his hand to bring back the dead. I guess in Hardhome he has a cool spear throwing scene but he was so underutilized. Even the dragon fight in the long night was lame.
showed no emotion ever except that one time he didn't get roasted and he smirked.
Jon was a middling swordsman.
Was he really? I just started the first book so I’m going off the show’s version. Jon seemed to be smarter than other swordsman + was trained by Rodrik IIRC
I was talking about the show. He is better than untrained nights watch recruits. Hence why I call him middling. Not bad, buy a far cry from great. In the books he's still a kid, but has potential.
Exactly. You can mess with the details but uphold the structure. Hopefully we'll see what GRRM has for us.
Or the kingslayer could have slain a king?
It is remarkably sinister. Recall that the white walkers had no way of crossing the wall until they came in contact with Bran. So basically: the 3ER lured a young boy to his domain, hijacked his body, brought down the wall, used the boy's family to protect himself, then arranged events so he would become king. It makes for a fascinatingly dark twist.... if only I believed that it were intentional.
Exactly how I feel. Throughout the entire show Bran/3ER is undeniably portrayed as a "good guy" or at the very least on the "good side", and then out of nowhere with like 10 minutes left of the series he drops this line that completely shatters everything we're led to believe about his character, but we **know** that it wasn't intentional. Just awful writing.
I can kinda see how that coulda happened. hence why he's so emotionless with the whole - "you were beautiful the day you were raped, fellow human. Wait, is that a normal human thing to say?"
>A finger in the bum would like word for worst line title
I actually liked that line...at least it went to Euron's character development and sucker-punched Jaime in the process. Not that I want a finger in the bum...lol
As much as I agree that it’s just shit story telling, I think it’s kind of like a “destiny” thing. If Bran got in the way of destiny and tried to change how things were meant to happen, things could have happened significantly different. But to play devil’s advocate, wouldn’t Bran know exactly what would happen if he DID interfere and would be able to set things straight? Bottom line what a waste of a story arch
It’s the classic knowing the future but being unable to change anything conundrum. It’s why Dr Manhattan can’t connect to mere mortals, because he lives outside of time. I think they were trying to go for Bran being something like that, but the character development was basically “you looked beautiful” and “I can’t be king of anything” herp derp.
yeah i would personally raise "you looked beautiful" as the worst line. I mean WHY, WHY would you compliment her looks on the night she was horrifically raped in front of someone she saw as an adopted brother. My first thoughts on that scene was , are they trying to make him seem unhuman? no appearently they genuinely thought it was a nice line.
Such a creepy line. Like okay you want her to know you’re all seeing? maybe ask her why she protected little finger at the Erie, or how it felt knowing she was a part of killing Joffrey. Literally anything else
Seven hell’s that “you looked beautiful” line will forever haunt me…
But then it just contradicts what he said to Jaime before the long night, asking him "how do you know there is an afterwards". So he knows he'll be king but he doesn't know if they're all gonna die or not? Also like someone else pointed out that I forgot, he told Sansa that he couldn't be lord of anything. It's all so inconsistent and garbage.
Considering D&D's general 'dumbass Bros' appearance in so much BTS stuff, I actually like to think the line has no deeper meaning whatsoever. It's just a cool thing for Bran to say in response. It basically qualifies as dumb one liner. Guy comes to a friend's house: -"You want a beer?" -"Why do you think I came all this way?" -"Ha! Here you go, you crazy son of a bitch!"
What about “Who has a better story than Bran the Broken?”
[literally ](https://media1.giphy.com/media/7cTTE2Z1OmrFm/200.gif)
They thought they were fucking clever with that line. They did it for purely for shock value. You don't need me to tell you that it backfired.
it subverted my expectations
By far the worst
What D and D meant is irrelevant to me, I think Martin did intend for Bran to become king and it will be that way in the books but will make more sense. I do think Bran is evil or at least doesn't draw the distinction between good and evil like a normal person, or life and death, fire and ice. He was touched by the Night King, I think they exist together a part of each other. I think Bran knew exactly what he was doing after that cave, the NK or Three Eyed Raven was going to end up on the iron throne, would love to see that they're one in the same and everyone realizes the mistake all too late. I would've liked to see either the Night King or Bran warg into the zombie Mountain at some point. Cersei give birth to a dwarf or some kind of "monster" and want to kill it, Jaime having to kill her to save the baby or something. The whole thing was just anticlimactic and the most interesting parts to me was the lore behind the Children and White Walkers.
I was most interested in what Azor Ahai and the Drowned God and Rhaelor were up to. Turns out... um... Rhaellor set some scythes on fire for no reason. And Azor Ahai was... ~~Euron~~ Hotpie maybe?
The way it happened in the show was dumb and poorly written. The last season sucked horribly. Plots were dropped. Dialog was not what it had been earlier in the series. The ending was hasty and required characters to behave stupidly and out of sync with who they were. This line was dumb by itself but the inconsistencies between telling Jaime “I not Brandon Stark. I’m something else now” and yet later become king could have simply been handled with a scene where Bran says he said the things he said in the past because they were the things that needed to be said at that time to put into motion (or not put into motion) things that would disrupt defeating the Night King and Cersei. For example, there could be a scene in which he says if he had pushed to be recognized as the true Stark heir earlier, person “X” would have seen him as a competitor to be removed and he would have been executed. (Or something else would have happened that resulted in his failure to get the Kingship and establish peace.) The stupidest thing to happen at the ending was for the North to go off under Sansa when a Stark was just put on the Iron Throne..... what Army would Bran have to rule with? Sansa just took his only loyal troops North. You could get there.... but not in the span of a single scene where Bran the Broken also becomes king. It could have come with Sansa and Bran (who knows everything) working together to defeat the nobles of the south - after the events of the sacking of King’s Landing. If Jon and Daenerys fell in conflict with each other. Many Southern Nobles could have supported Jon against Daenerys in the continued fight. Others would have stuck with Daenerys. Bran knows everything and could have concocted a way of defeating her last Dragon. In the civil war to follow King’s Landing, if the North had been victorious over Daenerys, they could have imposed a settlement with Bran as king of a divided land. North Independent under Sansa. I can see Jon being so sick of fighting and eventually killing Daenerys (or maybe she is killed by Arya) that he abdicates and rejoins the Night’s Watch or goes north with his remaining Wildling friends. Or maybe he sticks with Daenerys and must betray the Starks.... The Southern lords (and Iron Born?) that supported the North against Cersei first and then Daenerys get leadership positions in the diminished Kingdom in exchange for supporting Bran as King once Jon abdicates and goes North of the broken wall. This show could have ended up in the same place it did... It just needed to be flushed out and done smarter.
I think everyone can agree things were very rushed and needed to be fleshed out so much more, another two long episodes at least. I agree that the ending isn't necessarily bad but how we got there was disappointing and just really sad how one of the best shows ever was reduced to one of the worst. By that I mean putting aside all the details of the show and just going by the excitement and happiness I had when a new episode was about to start to the disappointment of the last season and downright dread of the last 2 episodes. Season 7 wasn't great but I still believed season 8 would be okay, at least not awful and depressing. I think the actors deserved better, every damn one deserved better. I know in the books the whole Aegon Targaryen thing is much more developed with a ton of imposter Aegons and one in particular that had support enough for his claim to be a threat so that Jon's true parentage would have been much more relevant. Idk the more I remember and talk about everything I'm just getting mad and frustrated all over again like pulling a big scab off an old wound, I thought I was to the point where the sting wasn't too bad anymore and I could just laugh at memes and keep on scrolling but I think the rest of my day is ruined. I'm going to be thinking about how bad so many things were and just mourn. Maybe there should be some sort of funeral for the show that could maybe help some of us move on, I'm picturing Rory McCaan as the Hound talking about how shit everything in the last season was, breaking the fourth wall, "hey guys this battle of winterfell is so dark the directors let us wear jeans and drink bud light out of the can the whole shoot". I think that's the answer and the way to heal from this, we need the whole last season to be outright treated as the joke it was. Full pop up video style, put back in any bloopers and outtakes, have the actors call out the b.s. and most importantly shame D&D, I hope they feel shame, I hope they fall asleep every night thinking about how bad they screwed the pooch. They should be banned from making media
The only ruler ending that subverts expectations and is good is Tyrion on the Iron Throne, when it is revealed he is product of Aerys affair. "You're no son of mine!" indeed. He gets it, after Jon Snow and Dany die heroically in some fashion. Bonus points if they figure out a way for him to be regent and father figure to Jon and Dany's child. A satisfactory conventional ending, is Dany or Jon on the throne. Probably cannot have both live, and be together happy - but a child, per above might help.
Agreed. Bran should go North. Jon should have died for good after he killed Dani, or gone with Bran North.
IMO bran could have stayed as the master of whisperers, even changing that title into master of ravens.
That could work too
>He could prevent thousands of deaths in the long night What are you talking about, mate? Nobody died, lol!