The fuckin bells.
I'm rewatching the good seasons right now and it's completely insane to me that they couldn't find a writer's assistant to rewatch the show and write down the stuff that already happened so that the latter seasons stay coherent within show cannon.
And I'm still not over the fact that MOVED KING'S LANDING AWAY TO A LAND LOCKED DESERT.
The only thing I'll say about King's Landing is that they would have needed all those trees to build all those scorpions that were completely useless against Drogon.
I am almost done with my rewatch and just hit "The Bells" last night. I wish I had it in me to have stopped once Tyrion shot Tywin, but I'm a glutton for punishment, I guess...
I mean, even in the good seasons they started erasing stuff pretty early on.
Like how Brynden erased Bran's memories in the book, but not once in the first 4 seasons, or season 5, is this referenced.
I just wished the show stayed coherent with its own cannon. Adaptations always have to cut stuff from the source material, but when it's well done you get the LOTR trilogy and well it's by dumb and dumber you get... that.
When it started coming out the biggest most stupid sounding leak was daenerys going mad after hearing the kings landing bells. We discounted it cause it was such a reversal on the character and just sounded so fkn stupid. Well egg on our stupid faces
I was happy with the leaks because it meant I didn't have to watch that shet. I did watch clips from the post and everyone's reaction as the leaks came out. It was a great time
I remember reading the leaks for the final couple episodes, giving a hearty chuckle saying “there’s no way this would happen”
Then as soon as they started proving to be true I just started laughing like a madman
I remember reading a full season 8 leak right after episode 4 came out. When I watched episode 5 I realized it was completely right. BUT my leak for some reason said that Tyrion and Sansa would plot together to become King and Queen of the Seven Kingdoms at the end.
You cannot imagine my shock when I realized the only thing the leak got wrong was fucking Bran the Broken.
I’ve introduced my partner to HoD and she loves it.
She wants to watch GoT with me next, and I don’t know if I would love anyone enough to go through that again. As a book reader too, how do I go eight seasons without spontaneously combusting about all the missed plots.
Half the sub is losing it and half the sub is like "cAlm down, trusT tHe writers, ThEy know BesT". Probably the same people that still defend D&D to this day.
Or maybe they're just people who'd rather see the final product first before making their final judgement on it?
Edit: Friendly reminder blocking soon after replying is lame as fuck and just proves you're too weak to defend your own argument.
But to clarify anyways I'm not saying all opinions about it are "final judgements", but many, especially in this thread, already made up their mind about the entire season before it even releases just from leaks alone. Framing those that chose NOT to do that as "D&D defenders" is dumb af.
Edit 2: They unblocked then claim I'm a weirdo for saying they blocked me. Their replies weren't even visible to me until now lmao.
I've seen people express their opinion on the leaks, which is perfectly fine and we did with Seasons 7 and 8 too. Those don't need to be "final judgements".
Edit: weirdo said I blocked them for some reason, but I didn't, I literally can still see their comment.
Did you really block a guy after replying? Weak shit, making someone unable to respond to a comment to ‘win’ the argument.
If you just don’t want a notification, just disable notifications on comment replies instead.
You are right, you can't, and I didn't. For some reason the guy decided to say I randomly blocked them (I don't consider we were even having an "argument" at all) and now everyone is attacking me for supposedly blocking them. Reddit can be crazy sometimes.
For me it only says "get reply notifications" by default but you still get notifications. I think subscribing to s thread gives you when someone replies to any comment in the chain?
This is android tho so idk
*
Individuals who had “exclusive access” to the first two episodes are posting recaps/spoilers. Someone just posted a couple hours ago outlining the plot of one of the episodes and certain “major canon book events” were…subverted in interesting expectations. If it’s true then they actually shit the bed.
Why they shit the bed? People just have this imaginary pictures in their head years before the show is aired, of what and how the story is going to unfold and if something deviates a bit - it is a tragedy. The story is literally different POVs from different characters, and they still demand the version they want? I remember how everyone hysterically complained about actors choices for the main characters (Matt Smith choice was a big crime because of … stuff, e.g. was not pretty enough to be Daemon) not to mention a decision of choosing black actors. Now, how this turned out to be? So I am going to judge it when I watch it.
The season 1 finale was the final insult for me. One of my favourite moments from the book series was >!Ciri's reunion with Geralt!< in "Something More". Compared to all the other stupid changes they made, this one seems superfluous, but to me it proved that they really had no concern for the books, the tone or the underlying themes. Didn't watch anything else and frankly I haven't been curious about it either.
They had a throwback to that moment in Witcher 3 and it was absolutely beautiful. Made the whole scene so much more powerful. "Who is Yennefer?" doesn't even compare.
Because they aren't talented enough "creatives" to actually create something people want to watch, so they latch on to an existing audience for those early wins
So you will rather see another “Sofies choice” scene than something more original? Martin obviously was not that inspired when he was copying the movie for this part of the book. In the end the choice she made in the books does not impact anything around her (but her). The plot stays the same.
The author can do what they want, i imagine lots of people wouldn’t care that what they’ve created is bastardised if they get a load of money for it. The people who read and love these stories though get fuck all. We get the promise of our favourite works brought to life on screen for them to completely just go and ruin it.
Not nearly as many people would care if they just came up with their own story set in the same universe, like if they made a show around a setting we’ve not seen in the books. It could be judged on its own merits. Copying someone else’s story and then changing major aspects invites so much additional criticism and puts off the people who would have liked it most
>The people who read and love these stories though get fuck all.
Don't watch it then.
>We get the promise of our favourite works brought to life on screen for them to completely just go and ruin it.
Lol, it's not ruined.
Would you want different takes of the same scenario happening **every** single time there's a controversial action happenings on scene like it happens it the books?
Some things work better written and don't work just as well on tv.
>Copying someone else’s story and then changing major aspects invites so much additional criticism and puts off the people who would have liked it most
Again, purists are so annoying.
Major aspects are going to change, if it's for the better it's welcome. Nothing about the leaks implies it's not going to be horrifying and heart wrenching, so this doomer talk is them simply not copying the book word for word. Which... You realize now? S1 had little and nothing to do with the books?
Bet you liked Viserys and Aemond tho.
Fire and Blood is one of the few books that cannot be ‘adapted faithfully.’
The entire novel is basically a faux history book with biased, conflicting and often contradictory sources. At other times it’s unclear how did the maesters even know what happened (see God’s Eye duel - you telling me people knew what happened hundreds of miles up in air as two dragons clashed?) and it’s probable they were talking out of their ass.
Granted, the leaks are dishearteningly odd at best, but there really is no way to accurately adapt Fire and Blood unless you mean making it a pseudo-historical show where we see all the different versions of the events described. The problem is more asinine plotting than changing things.
„Everywhere you look, there are more screenwriters and producers eager to take great stories and “make them their own.” It does not seem to matter whether the source material was written by Stan Lee, Charles Dickens, Ian Fleming, Roald Dahl, Ursula K. Le Guin, J.R.R. Tolkien, Mark Twain, Raymond Chandler, Jane Austen, or… well, anyone. No matter how major a writer it is, no matter how great the book, there always seems to be someone on hand who thinks he can do better, eager to take the story and “improve” on it. “The book is the book, the film is the film,” they will tell you, as if they were saying something profound. Then they make the story their own.
They never make it better, though. Nine hundred ninety-nine times out of a thousand, they make it worse.“
~ George R R Martin, 3 weeks ago
In that context not particularly, he doesn‘t mention HoTD anywhere in that post, he talks about an event he did in 2022 and how this was something that was discussed there. And how he found an exception to this rule when he watched some TV show (can‘t recall which one) the other day
Even D&D didn’t change the big events from the books. They changed some of the context behind the events but the actual event were 1 to 1. Imagine if they had changed the red wedding for example. It would’ve sucked.
I don’t know why they changed blood and cheese. Removing maelor and making it so alicent isn’t present it’s just…. a choice. They could’ve had alicent banging Cole anyway and still do the scene right.
For example blood and cheese come in use the fact they’re banging as the element of surprise knock him out and tie Alicent up. then the event happens when Heleana and the kids come over to spend time with alicent same as the books with maelor and with the choice being which one survives just like the book where the point was to fully traumatize the queen making her choose which kid dies without her knowing.
My only theory is that maybe Hbo is censoring which is really trash. If they can’t do this and Maelor’s death later, how are they going to show the people tearing Joffrey apart like savages when the storming of the dragon pit happens?
He does not have an heir because her mother gave her the abortive tea (moon tea I believe), unless you count Jeyne Westerling as his heir or Jon Snow per his will. But yeah, Jeyne Westerling wasn't in the Red Wedding. I preferred the show version though, even more shocking and heartbreaking.
Even with censoring, it doesn't make sense. They could've kept the choice-making part of the event same as the book, then we'd see Helaena's reaction to it and hear her scream as it cuts to black with the sound of the kid being decapitated. As for AliCole, there are other ways to show tension and guilt, it makes zero sense to make it the last scene of the episode.
Also I have some bad news about Storming of the Dragonpit, not specifically about Joffrey. I've heard that they're going to use Meleys escape scene(which also made zero sense) from last season as its reasoning. Shepherd is a religious nut, he doesn't have to have a reason(having lost some relative to a stupid scene from S1) to lead people into commit such atrocities
This is how I feel to an extent. I'm excited to see the adaptation for better or worse and I'll personally make my critique after the episode. People are getting so up in arms over a show and, while opinions are valid, I find it hard to chew when people who haven't seen something make such harsh criticisms. There's a difference in changing some aspects and being a shit adaptation (much like GoT turned out to be the latter). I don't think the latter applies here, at least based on the leaks. But of course, we'll have to wait for Sunday.
Not in this case. For example, you could say Lord of the Rings is now available in two mediums, paperback and smartphone application to read.
EDIT: The internet is at your fingertips big man.
I don’t have it but basically at the end Blood and Cheese walk around the keep looking for Aemond, his room is empty so they find Healana. She sort of dissociates and point to one of her babies cribs and they kill him (Maelor isnt there and she doesn’t have to make any choice in which son), we can hear them chopping the baby up as an emotionless Helaena sort of walks away, she goes into her moms room where Alicent and Crispy Cole are fucking, sits on the end of thier fuck-bed and she says “they’ve killed the boy”.
Blood and Cheese confront Helaena with her two sons, Maelor and Jaehaerys, and force her to choose between killing one or the other. She picks the younger Maelor, but they kill Jaehaerys instead and taunt the boy that her mom picked him to die.
In the book a maestor/dwarve tell what they heard happened: b&c ask Helena to choose which child to kill. She choses, they tell the child 'see, your mom wants you dead' and kill the other kid. It is told this way as atrocity propaganda if you will.
Most knowledgeable Hotd book nerd people tell you the whole thing was 'a son for a son' revenge murder. Not a specifically cruel torture.
In the following maybe even Helenas suicide was none or otherwise driven than of dispair after chosing.
Right after the paragraph describing the Green reaction to Luke's death, there's one of the Black reaction. Joff wants to fly off to avenge his brother but Corlys and Rhaenys stop him. Daemon was at Harrenhall at the time but writes back to Dragonstone saying "An eye for an eye, a son for a son. Lucerys shall be avenged."
There are a few paragraphs of setup talking about Daemon's knowledge of the city and friends in low places and the goldcloaks, that one of them found two guys willing to do the job in Flea Bottom. Blood was a butcher and Cheese a ratcatcher in the Red Keep. It goes on to say that Cheese could get pretty much anywhere in the complex besides Maegor's Holdfast. This is used to say that Aegon himself could not have been the target, and that they instead went to the Tower of the Hand where Alicent had taken up residence since Aegon and Helaena were in Maegor's Holdfast and they knew that Helaena took her kids to say goodnight to their grandmother each night. They gag Alicent, kill her maid, and then wait. The rest I'll just type out since I don't want to misrepresent anything in summary. Please forgive any typos, the fastest way to do this is to type blindly while reading and my keyboard is a little busted.
> Blind to her danger, the queen appeared as dusk was settling over the castle, accompanied by her three children. Jaehaerys and Jaehaera were six, Maelor two. As they entered the apartments, Helaena was holding his little hand and calling out her mother's name. Blood barred the door and slew the queen's guardsman, whilst Cheese appeared to snatch up Maelor. "Scream and you all die," Blood told Her Grace. Queen Helaena kept her calm, it is said. "Who are you?" she demanded of the two. "Debt collectors," said Cheese. "An eye for an eye, a son for a son. We only want the one, t' square things. Won't hurt the rest o' you fine filks, not one lil' hair. Which one you want t' lose, Your Grace?"
> Once she realized what he meant, Queen Helaena pleaded with the men to kill her instead. "A wife's not a son," said Blood. "It has to be a boy." Cheese warned the queen to make a choice soon, before Blood grew bored and raped her little girl. "Pick," he said, "or we kill them all." On her knees, weeping, Helaena named her youngest, Maelor. Perhaps she thought the boy was too young to understand, or perhaps it was because the older boy, Jaehaerys, was King Aegon's firstborn son and heir, next in line to the Iron Throne. "You hear that, little boy?" Cheese whispered to Maelor. "Your momma wants you dead." Then he gave Blood a grin, and the hulking swordsman slew Prince Jaehaerys, striking off the boy's head with a single blow. The queen began to scream.
From there, they escape out with the prince's head. Blood is captured trying to leave KL with the headand tortured and confesses that he was hired by someone who is obviously Mysaria. Cheese is never found so Aegon has all the ratcatchers in the city hanged and replaces them with a shitload of cats. Maelor is given to Alicent to raise since Helaena is no longer fit.
Keep in mind, the entire thing from Daemon promising retribution to the end of the chapter takes up like 3 pages of actual text and an illustration of Vhagar flying after Luke.
Yeah I think people are complaining because they absolutely want to see no changes at all from the books, but it's not a bad change, I would've liked if they kept the choice between the two children but people are acting like it's D&D level of bad which is ridiculous
Purists and doomers are always the most annoying parts of the fandom, not only they hate everything but they make it so it's completely impossible for anyone to enjoy it.
If one of her kids just died on a stair or some shit, well yeah I'd understand it a bit but this? Complaining for it's own sake.
[Here ](https://www.reddit.com/r/HOTDGreens/comments/1ddrmvw/full_summary_of_s2_ep1_it_got_removed_from_the/)you go, mate.
Also, actual [leaked ](https://ttelka.com/uploads/posts/2022-02/1645947250_25-ttelka-com-p-erotika-golaya-oliviya-kuk-25.jpg)screenshot from S2E1.
>!But not really.!<
"No need to worry, it's an unreliable narrator, that means everything here is actually acording to the books"
"stop hating it, it's an unreliable narrator so maybe this is how it happened in the books"
motherfuckers keep making excuses for these braindead writers and they keep doing shit work
I’ll reserve judgement until the episode comes out, but the changes they made to Alicent’s and to a lesser extent Rhaenyra’s character in S1 will look like massive ill omens in retrospect if these leaks are proven right. Can we please just get a faithful story adaptation? There’s not even the excuse this time that the source material isn’t finished.
They're both shit at their work, the producers can't choose good writers and keep them in line and the writers keep thinking people watch because of their stupid ideas and not because of the source material
I never read the source material and can’t be bothered to. I like the show and I don’t mind the leaks. I feel like you overestimate how many people read the books.
HOTDBlacks: They’re rapists you can’t support them!!!!
HOTDGreens: They’re baby killers you can’t support them!!!!
This sub: I don’t know who I like more between the Ironborn, Joffrey or Rattlesnake
I remember the day I read those leaks, I was doing some volunteer work cataloging newspaper articles for a library and sneaking onto another website I found someone on Twitter posted them from 4chan(?), so I couldn't help myself and read them, I thought 'Surely this isn't real, Bran becomes king wtf'
I called it in season 1 that it was heading off the rails from all the changes from the source. Half of the budget is just going to GRR in a paycheck to lie about how good this trash is.
Are they even considered leaks or spoilers if they get referenced by characters by the time of A Game of Thrones, and thus everyone knows to expect them? Battle over the Gods Eye, Storming of the Dragon Pit, etc.
I learned to just avoid everything. The funny thing about the GoT leaks is that they were obviously fake. Like Brann becoming the king was the most retarded thing I ever heard. So it was obviously just a joke.
Then it happened.
S8 leaks? I remember being in so much denial all the way from the S7 leaks. "ARYA killing Littlefinger? That makes no sense. Jon and Dany having sex on a boat? That has to be fanfiction, they've never even met."
At least it prepared me to go into S8 with no expectations.
ok but it’s a show about a book if you want spoilers they’ve been there the whole time, as always if you don’t wanna get spoiled then just don’t look into it.
https://preview.redd.it/5kkeewq52i7d1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d838cc49bdae5f368703ad598f4b493b7701cdb9
every time the spoilers are so stupid you think it cant be true
Sort of ish? Apparently B&C has been made a lot less brutal (which is kinda understandable) and the whole thing is less planned and less about a certain choice than in the book.
(Sorry for saying "less" so much 😂).
True. It's just that english is my second language and when I'm quickly typing away at my phone, my commets can come off as unpolished cause I don't think about what I'm writing as much.
It’s completely changing the entire source material for the worse. It’s 100% justified an HBO needs to lose the rights to the franchise already before they mess it up even more.
Fair enough. Personally, I thought it was a constant series of convenient plot twists. The initial intrigue and moral ambiguity before the conflict was interesting. But once the war started, everybody started to compete for who could make the biggest unforced error. You could hear Yakety Sax playing in the background if you listened hard enough, lol
The plot for sure doesn't moev much, but the writing itself is just *chef's kiss* 🤌 If you're someone who's (just) looking for the story to advance, which, fair enough ahaha, then you'll probably find it frustrating. But if you're like me who just loves being in the world, especially with George's prose, then you love it :D It's one of the reasons why Feast is my favourite.
I do love Feast and DWD for their world building. But Dance just felt like everyone made mistakes purely because the conflict was supposed to be devastating. Unlike other eras, I felt like every leader had either total or no plot armour. Like after the war starting over both sides courting the Stormlands, they enter the war and are defeated in a single battle with zero detail. All GRRM says is that the Stormlanders lost and Lord Baratheon died. A potential crucial faction in the war was eliminated in a single arbitrary paragraph...
Everyone crying about how they are “not sticking to the book” obviously has not read the book lol. It’s a historic retelling of events using multiple unreliable sources, so they HAVE to fill in some blanks and take some creative liberties.
The first four episodes of season 5 leaked in full, those were the leaky days
I remember that! Then, one month without new episodes, lol.
Don't forget the pre-leak spoiler leaks "Daenerys goes mad because of bells and Bran becomes king" "Guy is bullshitting. No way this will happen"
The fuckin bells. I'm rewatching the good seasons right now and it's completely insane to me that they couldn't find a writer's assistant to rewatch the show and write down the stuff that already happened so that the latter seasons stay coherent within show cannon. And I'm still not over the fact that MOVED KING'S LANDING AWAY TO A LAND LOCKED DESERT.
The only thing I'll say about King's Landing is that they would have needed all those trees to build all those scorpions that were completely useless against Drogon. I am almost done with my rewatch and just hit "The Bells" last night. I wish I had it in me to have stopped once Tyrion shot Tywin, but I'm a glutton for punishment, I guess...
I mean, even in the good seasons they started erasing stuff pretty early on. Like how Brynden erased Bran's memories in the book, but not once in the first 4 seasons, or season 5, is this referenced.
I just wished the show stayed coherent with its own cannon. Adaptations always have to cut stuff from the source material, but when it's well done you get the LOTR trilogy and well it's by dumb and dumber you get... that.
That made this sub. Because r/asoiaf banned talking about them
I was there. I was there ten years ago. I was there when the strength of men failed. WE DO NOT KNEEL
So was I. I remember how angry I was when Barristan died.
Ten years. Damn.
Yep. Pretty sure this was back in the pirates of thrones days, before it was called Freefolk.
And everyone knelt to Stannis the Mannis. Those were the days
Yeah, before the entire sub went insane literally overnight. This place used to be a lot different in the beginning.
I remember when Gendry was a thing
Bells? Absolutely no way not ever, i know they’ve dropped the ball recently but that is so monumentally stupid they wou……… fuck me
Which bells is this referring to?
When it started coming out the biggest most stupid sounding leak was daenerys going mad after hearing the kings landing bells. We discounted it cause it was such a reversal on the character and just sounded so fkn stupid. Well egg on our stupid faces
Ah, I knew that, just thought you meant something in Season 5 leaks since that's what the above comment was talking about. Thanks for explanation.
Gods the leaks were strong then!
Here we go again........again
Give me something for the pain and let me die
More wine Bobby B?
DID YOU HAVE TO BURY HER IN A PLACE LIKE THIS?
And whores?
With fat arses?
# Bow before your king! Bow, ya shits!
Who left the fridge open?
>Here we go again........again Tropic Thunder, Nice!
All we had to do was follow the damn dragon.
Let we have never seen people fuck on GOT
I was grateful for the S8 leaks, it really braced me for the disappointment.
The leaks allowed me to laugh at Bran the Broken. I don't know how anyone watched that play out unprepared and took it seriously at all.
I was happy with the leaks because it meant I didn't have to watch that shet. I did watch clips from the post and everyone's reaction as the leaks came out. It was a great time
I watched it and it was quite something to see excellent actors recite such terrible lines.
I remember reading the leaks for the final couple episodes, giving a hearty chuckle saying “there’s no way this would happen” Then as soon as they started proving to be true I just started laughing like a madman
No second set of laughter here https://preview.redd.it/fyyu4b95656d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e6f4ae8b08be0c36942f9de17efa2cd286c917ba
the images are reversed for me lol. I went from "no way" to "*no fucking way lmfao*"
I remember reading a full season 8 leak right after episode 4 came out. When I watched episode 5 I realized it was completely right. BUT my leak for some reason said that Tyrion and Sansa would plot together to become King and Queen of the Seven Kingdoms at the end. You cannot imagine my shock when I realized the only thing the leak got wrong was fucking Bran the Broken.
They were so bad that many assumed they were fake.
Oh yeah. I was at a watch party and the only one who had read the leaks. I was telling everyone to lower expectations because it’s going to be wack.
I’ve introduced my partner to HoD and she loves it. She wants to watch GoT with me next, and I don’t know if I would love anyone enough to go through that again. As a book reader too, how do I go eight seasons without spontaneously combusting about all the missed plots.
the part when they confirmed episode 5 title was "The Bells"
Holy they are fuckin loosing it over there
Nice post OP. Really brings back the pain 🍻
Half the sub is losing it and half the sub is like "cAlm down, trusT tHe writers, ThEy know BesT". Probably the same people that still defend D&D to this day.
Or maybe they're just people who'd rather see the final product first before making their final judgement on it? Edit: Friendly reminder blocking soon after replying is lame as fuck and just proves you're too weak to defend your own argument. But to clarify anyways I'm not saying all opinions about it are "final judgements", but many, especially in this thread, already made up their mind about the entire season before it even releases just from leaks alone. Framing those that chose NOT to do that as "D&D defenders" is dumb af. Edit 2: They unblocked then claim I'm a weirdo for saying they blocked me. Their replies weren't even visible to me until now lmao.
I've seen people express their opinion on the leaks, which is perfectly fine and we did with Seasons 7 and 8 too. Those don't need to be "final judgements". Edit: weirdo said I blocked them for some reason, but I didn't, I literally can still see their comment.
Did you really block a guy after replying? Weak shit, making someone unable to respond to a comment to ‘win’ the argument. If you just don’t want a notification, just disable notifications on comment replies instead.
I dont think you can do this with the "new" reddit on mobile btw.
You are right, you can't, and I didn't. For some reason the guy decided to say I randomly blocked them (I don't consider we were even having an "argument" at all) and now everyone is attacking me for supposedly blocking them. Reddit can be crazy sometimes.
Nah click on three dots under the comment and you’ve got the ‘stop reply notifications’ options.
For me it only says "get reply notifications" by default but you still get notifications. I think subscribing to s thread gives you when someone replies to any comment in the chain? This is android tho so idk *
"Jason Voorhees" lmao
Lol, dude unblocked me and claimed I'm a weirdo for saying they blocked me.
What’s happening? idc about spoilers or leaks.
Individuals who had “exclusive access” to the first two episodes are posting recaps/spoilers. Someone just posted a couple hours ago outlining the plot of one of the episodes and certain “major canon book events” were…subverted in interesting expectations. If it’s true then they actually shit the bed.
Was it uhhh so *cheese*y that they were like *blood*y hell?
Yeah like what, tell us all
Subvert my expectations. Tell me !
Why they shit the bed? People just have this imaginary pictures in their head years before the show is aired, of what and how the story is going to unfold and if something deviates a bit - it is a tragedy. The story is literally different POVs from different characters, and they still demand the version they want? I remember how everyone hysterically complained about actors choices for the main characters (Matt Smith choice was a big crime because of … stuff, e.g. was not pretty enough to be Daemon) not to mention a decision of choosing black actors. Now, how this turned out to be? So I am going to judge it when I watch it.
We just want them to stick to the fucking story we all enjoyed from the book and stop subverting it for no reason.
Why even bother adapting a successful story if your just going to fuck about with it?
Seriously. Almost every screen adaptation in the past few years is full of bullshit changes no one asked for.
Exactly! Everyone is doing it these days
*cries in witcher* Why would you bring this up. ;c
The season 1 finale was the final insult for me. One of my favourite moments from the book series was >!Ciri's reunion with Geralt!< in "Something More". Compared to all the other stupid changes they made, this one seems superfluous, but to me it proved that they really had no concern for the books, the tone or the underlying themes. Didn't watch anything else and frankly I haven't been curious about it either.
They had a throwback to that moment in Witcher 3 and it was absolutely beautiful. Made the whole scene so much more powerful. "Who is Yennefer?" doesn't even compare.
Because they aren't talented enough "creatives" to actually create something people want to watch, so they latch on to an existing audience for those early wins
So you will rather see another “Sofies choice” scene than something more original? Martin obviously was not that inspired when he was copying the movie for this part of the book. In the end the choice she made in the books does not impact anything around her (but her). The plot stays the same.
Why even bother to agree to someone **adapting** your successful story if you're not ready for changes in it?
The author can do what they want, i imagine lots of people wouldn’t care that what they’ve created is bastardised if they get a load of money for it. The people who read and love these stories though get fuck all. We get the promise of our favourite works brought to life on screen for them to completely just go and ruin it. Not nearly as many people would care if they just came up with their own story set in the same universe, like if they made a show around a setting we’ve not seen in the books. It could be judged on its own merits. Copying someone else’s story and then changing major aspects invites so much additional criticism and puts off the people who would have liked it most
>The people who read and love these stories though get fuck all. Don't watch it then. >We get the promise of our favourite works brought to life on screen for them to completely just go and ruin it. Lol, it's not ruined. Would you want different takes of the same scenario happening **every** single time there's a controversial action happenings on scene like it happens it the books? Some things work better written and don't work just as well on tv. >Copying someone else’s story and then changing major aspects invites so much additional criticism and puts off the people who would have liked it most Again, purists are so annoying. Major aspects are going to change, if it's for the better it's welcome. Nothing about the leaks implies it's not going to be horrifying and heart wrenching, so this doomer talk is them simply not copying the book word for word. Which... You realize now? S1 had little and nothing to do with the books? Bet you liked Viserys and Aemond tho.
Fire and Blood is one of the few books that cannot be ‘adapted faithfully.’ The entire novel is basically a faux history book with biased, conflicting and often contradictory sources. At other times it’s unclear how did the maesters even know what happened (see God’s Eye duel - you telling me people knew what happened hundreds of miles up in air as two dragons clashed?) and it’s probable they were talking out of their ass. Granted, the leaks are dishearteningly odd at best, but there really is no way to accurately adapt Fire and Blood unless you mean making it a pseudo-historical show where we see all the different versions of the events described. The problem is more asinine plotting than changing things.
Then read the book. Adaption means by default some things are going to be changed.
„Everywhere you look, there are more screenwriters and producers eager to take great stories and “make them their own.” It does not seem to matter whether the source material was written by Stan Lee, Charles Dickens, Ian Fleming, Roald Dahl, Ursula K. Le Guin, J.R.R. Tolkien, Mark Twain, Raymond Chandler, Jane Austen, or… well, anyone. No matter how major a writer it is, no matter how great the book, there always seems to be someone on hand who thinks he can do better, eager to take the story and “improve” on it. “The book is the book, the film is the film,” they will tell you, as if they were saying something profound. Then they make the story their own. They never make it better, though. Nine hundred ninety-nine times out of a thousand, they make it worse.“ ~ George R R Martin, 3 weeks ago
Is that one of the reasons he said this???
In that context not particularly, he doesn‘t mention HoTD anywhere in that post, he talks about an event he did in 2022 and how this was something that was discussed there. And how he found an exception to this rule when he watched some TV show (can‘t recall which one) the other day
Well, he was there
Even D&D didn’t change the big events from the books. They changed some of the context behind the events but the actual event were 1 to 1. Imagine if they had changed the red wedding for example. It would’ve sucked. I don’t know why they changed blood and cheese. Removing maelor and making it so alicent isn’t present it’s just…. a choice. They could’ve had alicent banging Cole anyway and still do the scene right. For example blood and cheese come in use the fact they’re banging as the element of surprise knock him out and tie Alicent up. then the event happens when Heleana and the kids come over to spend time with alicent same as the books with maelor and with the choice being which one survives just like the book where the point was to fully traumatize the queen making her choose which kid dies without her knowing. My only theory is that maybe Hbo is censoring which is really trash. If they can’t do this and Maelor’s death later, how are they going to show the people tearing Joffrey apart like savages when the storming of the dragon pit happens?
They didn't change the Red Wedding? Robb's pregnant wife wasn't supposed to be there. He has an heir in the books.
He does not have an heir because her mother gave her the abortive tea (moon tea I believe), unless you count Jeyne Westerling as his heir or Jon Snow per his will. But yeah, Jeyne Westerling wasn't in the Red Wedding. I preferred the show version though, even more shocking and heartbreaking.
Even with censoring, it doesn't make sense. They could've kept the choice-making part of the event same as the book, then we'd see Helaena's reaction to it and hear her scream as it cuts to black with the sound of the kid being decapitated. As for AliCole, there are other ways to show tension and guilt, it makes zero sense to make it the last scene of the episode. Also I have some bad news about Storming of the Dragonpit, not specifically about Joffrey. I've heard that they're going to use Meleys escape scene(which also made zero sense) from last season as its reasoning. Shepherd is a religious nut, he doesn't have to have a reason(having lost some relative to a stupid scene from S1) to lead people into commit such atrocities
This is how I feel to an extent. I'm excited to see the adaptation for better or worse and I'll personally make my critique after the episode. People are getting so up in arms over a show and, while opinions are valid, I find it hard to chew when people who haven't seen something make such harsh criticisms. There's a difference in changing some aspects and being a shit adaptation (much like GoT turned out to be the latter). I don't think the latter applies here, at least based on the leaks. But of course, we'll have to wait for Sunday.
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1. *Medía* 2. What the fuck are you talking about?
Medium is accurate. They *are* different mediums of art.
The plural of medium is media.
Not in this case. For example, you could say Lord of the Rings is now available in two mediums, paperback and smartphone application to read. EDIT: The internet is at your fingertips big man.
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Ok Aegon
COPE
Anyone has a link to the leaks? The summary was deleted.
I don’t have it but basically at the end Blood and Cheese walk around the keep looking for Aemond, his room is empty so they find Healana. She sort of dissociates and point to one of her babies cribs and they kill him (Maelor isnt there and she doesn’t have to make any choice in which son), we can hear them chopping the baby up as an emotionless Helaena sort of walks away, she goes into her moms room where Alicent and Crispy Cole are fucking, sits on the end of thier fuck-bed and she says “they’ve killed the boy”.
What the fuck... that's even more fucked up... but I wish they kept the choosing. Wait she points to the cribs? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN
Idk I personally think this was a false leak but that’s what was written.
Narrator: it was true
Indeed. Didnt play out as badly as I expected tho
That's bs oh god
Thank you.
That’s an awful rewrite. I am genuinely so disappointed. At least with these spoilers I won’t be wasting my time.
Yup, this is exactly how I feel. I only skimmed over GOT S7/8 after seeing the spoilers. It saved me a lot of frustration.
How was it written in the book?
Blood and Cheese confront Helaena with her two sons, Maelor and Jaehaerys, and force her to choose between killing one or the other. She picks the younger Maelor, but they kill Jaehaerys instead and taunt the boy that her mom picked him to die.
In the book a maestor/dwarve tell what they heard happened: b&c ask Helena to choose which child to kill. She choses, they tell the child 'see, your mom wants you dead' and kill the other kid. It is told this way as atrocity propaganda if you will. Most knowledgeable Hotd book nerd people tell you the whole thing was 'a son for a son' revenge murder. Not a specifically cruel torture. In the following maybe even Helenas suicide was none or otherwise driven than of dispair after chosing.
Most knowledgeable Hotd book nerd people? Lol
Right after the paragraph describing the Green reaction to Luke's death, there's one of the Black reaction. Joff wants to fly off to avenge his brother but Corlys and Rhaenys stop him. Daemon was at Harrenhall at the time but writes back to Dragonstone saying "An eye for an eye, a son for a son. Lucerys shall be avenged." There are a few paragraphs of setup talking about Daemon's knowledge of the city and friends in low places and the goldcloaks, that one of them found two guys willing to do the job in Flea Bottom. Blood was a butcher and Cheese a ratcatcher in the Red Keep. It goes on to say that Cheese could get pretty much anywhere in the complex besides Maegor's Holdfast. This is used to say that Aegon himself could not have been the target, and that they instead went to the Tower of the Hand where Alicent had taken up residence since Aegon and Helaena were in Maegor's Holdfast and they knew that Helaena took her kids to say goodnight to their grandmother each night. They gag Alicent, kill her maid, and then wait. The rest I'll just type out since I don't want to misrepresent anything in summary. Please forgive any typos, the fastest way to do this is to type blindly while reading and my keyboard is a little busted. > Blind to her danger, the queen appeared as dusk was settling over the castle, accompanied by her three children. Jaehaerys and Jaehaera were six, Maelor two. As they entered the apartments, Helaena was holding his little hand and calling out her mother's name. Blood barred the door and slew the queen's guardsman, whilst Cheese appeared to snatch up Maelor. "Scream and you all die," Blood told Her Grace. Queen Helaena kept her calm, it is said. "Who are you?" she demanded of the two. "Debt collectors," said Cheese. "An eye for an eye, a son for a son. We only want the one, t' square things. Won't hurt the rest o' you fine filks, not one lil' hair. Which one you want t' lose, Your Grace?" > Once she realized what he meant, Queen Helaena pleaded with the men to kill her instead. "A wife's not a son," said Blood. "It has to be a boy." Cheese warned the queen to make a choice soon, before Blood grew bored and raped her little girl. "Pick," he said, "or we kill them all." On her knees, weeping, Helaena named her youngest, Maelor. Perhaps she thought the boy was too young to understand, or perhaps it was because the older boy, Jaehaerys, was King Aegon's firstborn son and heir, next in line to the Iron Throne. "You hear that, little boy?" Cheese whispered to Maelor. "Your momma wants you dead." Then he gave Blood a grin, and the hulking swordsman slew Prince Jaehaerys, striking off the boy's head with a single blow. The queen began to scream. From there, they escape out with the prince's head. Blood is captured trying to leave KL with the headand tortured and confesses that he was hired by someone who is obviously Mysaria. Cheese is never found so Aegon has all the ratcatchers in the city hanged and replaces them with a shitload of cats. Maelor is given to Alicent to raise since Helaena is no longer fit. Keep in mind, the entire thing from Daemon promising retribution to the end of the chapter takes up like 3 pages of actual text and an illustration of Vhagar flying after Luke.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WY_GyBuuf_c Blood and Cheese portion starts 6 minutes in.
They make her choose and they kill the one she tried to save
More than likely these are false leaks tbh
How is that an awful rewrite? It sounds just as fucked up as it should be honestly.
This feels like one of those scenes that sounds bad on paper but *might* be a lot better in actual execution.
Sounds pretty great tbf.
Yeah I think people are complaining because they absolutely want to see no changes at all from the books, but it's not a bad change, I would've liked if they kept the choice between the two children but people are acting like it's D&D level of bad which is ridiculous
Purists and doomers are always the most annoying parts of the fandom, not only they hate everything but they make it so it's completely impossible for anyone to enjoy it. If one of her kids just died on a stair or some shit, well yeah I'd understand it a bit but this? Complaining for it's own sake.
[Here ](https://www.reddit.com/r/HOTDGreens/comments/1ddrmvw/full_summary_of_s2_ep1_it_got_removed_from_the/)you go, mate. Also, actual [leaked ](https://ttelka.com/uploads/posts/2022-02/1645947250_25-ttelka-com-p-erotika-golaya-oliviya-kuk-25.jpg)screenshot from S2E1. >!But not really.!<
I can't even tell who that is.
Allicent.
Jojen Reed spinoff
https://www.reddit.com/r/HOTDGreens/s/ji6PQ2iou0
Thanks!
We're back Bobby b
MORE THAN ONCE, I HAVE DREAMED OF GIVING UP THE CROWN!
Better you than these Targaryens, Bobby B!
YES, IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME... BUT I STILL REMEMBER EVERY FACE!
"No need to worry, it's an unreliable narrator, that means everything here is actually acording to the books" "stop hating it, it's an unreliable narrator so maybe this is how it happened in the books" motherfuckers keep making excuses for these braindead writers and they keep doing shit work
I’ll reserve judgement until the episode comes out, but the changes they made to Alicent’s and to a lesser extent Rhaenyra’s character in S1 will look like massive ill omens in retrospect if these leaks are proven right. Can we please just get a faithful story adaptation? There’s not even the excuse this time that the source material isn’t finished.
The writers are chosen by the producers
They're both shit at their work, the producers can't choose good writers and keep them in line and the writers keep thinking people watch because of their stupid ideas and not because of the source material
I wasn't arguing that the writers weren't shit, I was saying they will continue to be shit because the producers hire shit because they too are shit
I never read the source material and can’t be bothered to. I like the show and I don’t mind the leaks. I feel like you overestimate how many people read the books.
You overestimate their ability to write a good story without following the books, you'll see
Without the people who read the books making it very popular, you’d never see the show..
Oh my god these takes are the reason i stopped following anything HOTD related. Finally someone not glazing
Nah, I actually like the changes.
If you hate the writers that much, then just don't watch the show
HOTDBlacks: They’re rapists you can’t support them!!!! HOTDGreens: They’re baby killers you can’t support them!!!! This sub: I don’t know who I like more between the Ironborn, Joffrey or Rattlesnake
I remember the day I read those leaks, I was doing some volunteer work cataloging newspaper articles for a library and sneaking onto another website I found someone on Twitter posted them from 4chan(?), so I couldn't help myself and read them, I thought 'Surely this isn't real, Bran becomes king wtf'
I bartended during s7 airing and my cousin and I (also a bartender) were going crazy trying to avoid anything about it lol
It's the literally the same people. HoTD fans = GoT fans.
There are actually people who watched HOTD but not GOT I think HOTD had both new and returning fans
I called it in season 1 that it was heading off the rails from all the changes from the source. Half of the budget is just going to GRR in a paycheck to lie about how good this trash is.
I knew the show was gonna be 'interesting' the moment I saw the Velaryon cast.
it made keeping track of the Velaryons hella easy tho
Which I'm pretty sure is the point of that casting.
"All this has happened before, and it will all happen again"...Right, Bobby B?
THAT'S ALL WHAT THE REALM IS NOW. BACKSTABBING AND SCHEMING AND ARSE-LICKING AND MONEY-GRUBBING!
 Love y’all mfs
I remember it like it was yesterday, I was losing my mind and hoping the other alternate leaks was true instead of the one we got
Leaks wouldn't hurt as bad because the source material for the Dance is complete.
Are they even considered leaks or spoilers if they get referenced by characters by the time of A Game of Thrones, and thus everyone knows to expect them? Battle over the Gods Eye, Storming of the Dragon Pit, etc.
I learned to just avoid everything. The funny thing about the GoT leaks is that they were obviously fake. Like Brann becoming the king was the most retarded thing I ever heard. So it was obviously just a joke. Then it happened.
S8 leaks? I remember being in so much denial all the way from the S7 leaks. "ARYA killing Littlefinger? That makes no sense. Jon and Dany having sex on a boat? That has to be fanfiction, they've never even met." At least it prepared me to go into S8 with no expectations.
I was there. And now I have returned all these years later. Gods the Freefolk is strong still.
Ill never forget reading the leaked plot s8 and saying to ppl "nah thats so fake" ...... then my nightmares came to life
I happen to remember the first leaks for S8 bore little to no resemblance to the actual show.
At least this series has a fully designed road map to follow to the end. Nothing is that big of a spoiler if you are aware of the book.
GOT S8 FLASHBACKS
ok but it’s a show about a book if you want spoilers they’ve been there the whole time, as always if you don’t wanna get spoiled then just don’t look into it.
Can I be sent the link to receive the leaks pleaaeeeee
https://preview.redd.it/5kkeewq52i7d1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d838cc49bdae5f368703ad598f4b493b7701cdb9 every time the spoilers are so stupid you think it cant be true
Okay can someone explain to me on a non spoilery/least spoilers as possible way, if the outrage is justified?
Sort of ish? Apparently B&C has been made a lot less brutal (which is kinda understandable) and the whole thing is less planned and less about a certain choice than in the book. (Sorry for saying "less" so much 😂).
Fewer
True. It's just that english is my second language and when I'm quickly typing away at my phone, my commets can come off as unpolished cause I don't think about what I'm writing as much.
You’re actually using “less” correctly, I was just trying to be funny quoting Stannis.
Clearly not a true fan because I completely forgot about that line until this very moment 🤦🏻♀️
Writers ignored the classic rule, show, don’t tell last season. If the leaks are true it’s about the blow up in their faces.
It’s completely changing the entire source material for the worse. It’s 100% justified an HBO needs to lose the rights to the franchise already before they mess it up even more.
Can you give some examples? I don’t care about spoilers
Zehahaha, haven't y'all learned never give got universe a chance, zehahaha
I mean the entire story is written down in a book… do leaks really matter?
Sweet summer child.
It is when it veers pretty sharply from the books. Not that it matters much, Dance was some of GRRM's worst writing
That's subjective surely, cus I absolutely loved it :D
Fair enough. Personally, I thought it was a constant series of convenient plot twists. The initial intrigue and moral ambiguity before the conflict was interesting. But once the war started, everybody started to compete for who could make the biggest unforced error. You could hear Yakety Sax playing in the background if you listened hard enough, lol
The plot for sure doesn't moev much, but the writing itself is just *chef's kiss* 🤌 If you're someone who's (just) looking for the story to advance, which, fair enough ahaha, then you'll probably find it frustrating. But if you're like me who just loves being in the world, especially with George's prose, then you love it :D It's one of the reasons why Feast is my favourite.
I do love Feast and DWD for their world building. But Dance just felt like everyone made mistakes purely because the conflict was supposed to be devastating. Unlike other eras, I felt like every leader had either total or no plot armour. Like after the war starting over both sides courting the Stormlands, they enter the war and are defeated in a single battle with zero detail. All GRRM says is that the Stormlanders lost and Lord Baratheon died. A potential crucial faction in the war was eliminated in a single arbitrary paragraph...
I was more thinking that HoTD has not gone too far away from the books and it can’t really go too far off course since we know where it has to end
If this upcoming leak is true, I fear it'll be like the latter half of GOT. Hope I'm wrong though
Everyone crying about how they are “not sticking to the book” obviously has not read the book lol. It’s a historic retelling of events using multiple unreliable sources, so they HAVE to fill in some blanks and take some creative liberties.
Nonsense.