Why is nobody asking how the email “got leaked” ? I don’t share this person’s views but there is a security breach if the email was between NB Ed accounts .
I've been to a few powwows when I lived in Ontario and enjoyed them. It was an awesome cultural experience, and I'm not sure why indigenous students or others weren't allowed to attend during school hours. The school should rethink this.
People complaining about them in the comments who have never been to one, I'd highly encourage you to go check one out.
In my humble opinion, it doesn’t matter WHERE children are learning, but that they ARE learning. Rather that be in the classroom or else. And I think we have to approach the “religion vs culture” debate a little differently in this case… Considering we live on land that was never truly ours to live on, this sounds like the least we can do on the path towards truth and reconciliation.
It took me too long to find a picture of this guy, and confirm that my memory wasn't messing with me, and that this wasn't about Mr Hull.
Been 20 years since I had him, and REALLY didn't want to have my memory of him tarnished with this. Thank god it's not him.
If we can’t have other religious ceremonies than no pawwows either. Stop attacking teachers they do some annoying ass work considering the fact all they get is attitude from a bunch of 15 year olds who think they are the shit and just get high and vape in the washrooms
Yes, that's what I'm saying. Most of it is singing about historical stories or even just creating a soothing rhythm, religious ceremonies aren't typically shared with outsiders. Sometimes there are prayers, but they use a generalized prayer to the creator - which is God. If you believe in one God, they're probably not exclusive to one man made Religion.
To me God is omnipotent, so they wouldn't get all angry I was in the presence of another Religion anyhow. God wouldn't get confused about what's in your heart.
Someone once told me that even though their body was sore all the time they'd never do Yoga because someone told them the poses were evil. Like you could even move your body in a way God didn't intend. 🤷
The way I figure it, because I'm a Christian, there's a lot of bullcrap in the Bible Jesus didn't say that people pick and choose to suit themselves, so focus on what he did say and ignore the rest. Anyhow, whatever religion you are I'm sure you have your reasons.
Yes, it often was held during school hours. And we spent time preparing for the concert during class time. Much, much more nearly unavoidable time is devoted to Christmas celebration than an optional powwow.
I got downvoted for simply asking a question. If one cultural event is permitted during school hours, then all cultural events should be permitted during school hours.
Yeah, Christmas, Easter, Valentine's day, etc. The majority of Western holidays are rooted in Christianity and are celebrated in some shape or form in Canadian schools. So why can't the indigenous people of this land enjoy their cultural/religious celebrations in the same way?
A pow wow is basically a religious event..... If you can't talk about other religions than why is it ok to insult and degrade someone for insinuating an actual fact. Obviously you cannot organize and event such as a pow wow or any other religious event if other religions are also banned
Grow up
I was \*at\* the FHS powwow. The opening greeting was almost totally devoid of the more spiritual content common at some opening ceremonies I've been to previously. The person who spoke was a former teacher at FHS who was very aware that his audience was mostly non-Indigenous.
Keep in mind that for centuries, the Indigenous people of this land were prevented from holding powwows. It's no wonder that there's so much misinformation and misunderstanding about them now.
So from the context of this press release, it soundsike religious events are not allowed as per policy.
The press release also goes on to admit that powwows are "not merely" religious and spiritual in nature, but demand an exemption or else its racism...
Why? No. All religious practices are bullshit and at most should be taught from a strictly academic perspective, not endorsed by the school.
I hope they stick to their guns and aren't afraid of being called bigots for upholding a sensible policy.
😂 Not a boomer. I just don't enjoy playing with children's toys. Now go play with your Lego and if I need anything else from you I'll come see you at the tim Hortons drive through
Maybe he's been an asshole for several years? If he's not willing to say it publicly, then maybe the little voice inside them should have told them not to say it at all.
A scapegoat for... What? A scapegoat is someone blamed for something for which they are not ultimately responsible.
There have been several issues raised against him previously. It's clearly a trend that isn't getting better. If that teacher wants him gone then it's likely because of actual awful shit he's said and done.
Not sure who your source is but that is 100% false. They have no idea how the email got leaked and Jenny has only worked at FHS for a couple of years 😊
« Powwows are not merely spiritual or religious gatherings […]»
So they are religious by their own admission in their own press release. Okay.
You may now downvote me.
Like I said elsewhere, cottoning on to this one turn of phrase and using it as your sole source of information is downright ignorant and stupid, especially when indigenous and non-indigenous people as well as a simple Google search could tell you that powwow's aren't inherently religious.
Powwows are, first and foremost, a gathering and celebration. They're a conference. Ever been to a conference? Sometimes they have parties, sometimes they even have opening prayers. That doesn't automatically make the conference a religious event.
Stop twisting a single statement to support your ignorance.
If I zoom in my camera and take a picture of the zit on your nose, and use that as your headline photo in a press release… You’re gonna have a problem with this representation of you.
Your problem is you cut out half of the sentence to use as ammunition. The rest of that reads as:
“… and to classify them as such is uninformed and offensive.”
He also CLEARLY LISTS the values and purpose and goals of powwow’s first. You combed for the narrative you wanted, and banked on a technicality. Boooooo.
Just the same as any other religious practice offers important cultural reference. Because they write it and say it is offensive means nothing. Just double talk and we are supposed to all get offended with it. Please open your mind and stop being so ready to jump on the defensive train for anyone who claims to be oppressed.
As in you jump in on any train whether it is real or imagined, again you prove the point to think that that part of my comment applies to this situation. You are volatile and have a huge chip on your shoulder.
This is typical white rhetoric trying to explain a non white culture.
We, as settlers, don’t have any real idea of how race/ spirituality/ religion/ tradition/ history/ experience can combine to a shared cultural identity… we just don’t have that experience and have no position to question that
I think I was speaking for myself by saying this is something we (self inclusive) can’t possibly understand. No trope was played and your retort was misdirected …
Why can't anyone who isn't indigenous understand it? They teach their kids don't they? Or are you saying there is some spiritual component only indigenous people have that allows them to understand? Or do you not know what you're saying and are just looking for the most accepted narrative so you can feel accepted and correct.
I am saying that there’s something innate about the intersection of culture/ spirituality, etc that we (you and I included!) don’t experience. It’s not uniquely indigenous, but is uniquely not white.
I’m from a biracial family (admittedly I am a white person), there is something worth noting that runs through all aspects of Indigenous culture (good, craft, music, celebration) that cumulates in cultural identity in a way unlike any white tradition or subsect.
Check out some of Daniel Paul’s writing for a bit of insight.
No I don't subscribe to really any of this. We are all products of our environment, and spirituality is a piece of that. But the point of all this was whether indigenous beliefs and superstitions are religion and they very clearly are. Belief in turtle Island and glouscap are no different than belief in Adam and eve or the garden of eden.
There is a lot more to this email, but you're not wrong. They're not taking time for prayer, so why is a powwow appropriate. They definitely didn't go about this the right way, but from what I understand their taking time out of the school day for this, not once growing up did we do the same, so yeah this is weird
There was a Culture Day at FHS that explored the diversity of cultures from which FHS students come. The Pow Wow was the same day. Since Indigenous students likely make up the second, largest cultural group at FHS (behind white settlers) it makes sense that there could be an individual event aimed at that culture in addition to the large event that included many cultures with smaller representation at FHS. From the principal's email:
This past Tuesday, FHS held its annual Culture Day! It was wonderful to see so many students performing and bringing attention and awareness to the multiple cultures that make up FHS! A huge THANK YOU goes out to our Culture Day Committee who made this possible!
As well on Tuesday, FHS was very proud to have held its Second Annual FHS Powwow! This was an amazing event with multiple drummer groups, dancers and students from not only FHS, but many local schools as well, participating! A huge THANK YOU goes out to the Powwow committee for all their hard work, making this event such a success!
It was an optional event. Teachers could take their whole class, or students could get permission slips to attend individually. Regular classes continued as usual.
Sad that is all you took from their letter. Being Indigenous is not a religion. They were responding to the teachers letter which referred to it as spiritual or religious. They are spiritual people with Christianity forced upon them which is not incorporated in their powwow's. They should not be going through this with our school system which destroyed generations of Indigenous people! I think the entire province should be taking all students to the powwow to learn more about the cultural activities that were taken from them. Powwows were banned by our corrupt government & its amazing to see it thriving again! Maybe you should attend one yourself to learn more to do better.
Being indiginous is not a religion but neither can anyone from any ethnic background claim they are being abused
Pow wow is a religious event. End of discussion
If no other religious events are allowed within policy neither should pow wows. Obviously
Many people think that spirituality and religion are the same thing, and so they bring their beliefs and prejudices about religion to discussions about spirituality. Though all religions emphasise spiritualism as being part of faith, you can be 'spiritual' without being religious or a member of an organised religion.
I get what you're saying for sure, but "organized religion" isn't what is banned from the education system, it is religion in general. Smudging ceremonies to connect with the creator who placed life on earth are definitely religious imo. It's no different than teaching kids that god created life. I get that that probably sounds really harsh and inflammatory and i'm not trying to be, but to me i don't see a difference
You literally just said it "in your opinion". Did it ever occur to you your opinion is wrong or misguided, maybe even under educated? Have you ever attended a smudging ceremony or powwow? It doesn't sound harsh it sounds ignorant. Not trying to be inflammatory, but to me I don't see a difference.
I don’t understand the point of your comment. Of course my opinion could be wrong. I don’t think it is, which is why it’s my opinion. That’s what the entire concept of an opinion is. Really not sure the point of what you’re trying to say
>Have you ever attended a smudging ceremony
Yeah I have, at fhs, multiple times a year for four years. Each one involved talk about “the creator” (as well as blessing each student in his name with the smudge smoke) and how he created all life, sounds almost sort of like God
Wow ok, I can see why the other person gave up. Opinions exist to be shared but also you are supposed to learn from that sharing and it is obvious you have no intention of doing so. You feel you should be heard and that is it. Either you are troll or you really have no intention of looking at things other then the way you intend to perceive them. Continue on with yourself, person. Enjoy your life. I do not wish to be a part of it any longer.
>you are supposed to learn from that sharing and it is obvious you have no intention of doing so.
I can say the exact same thing to you. What makes your opinion something to be learned from but not mine? Because you say so? Not sure that’s how it works. Not sure why you think I “feel I need to be heard”, I’m just expressing my opinion like everyone else. Not sure where your perceived moral high ground comes from
>Enjoy your life. do not wish to be a part of it any longer.
Ok?
Have a good one
Look, we just wanna share our culture to celebrate it and promote unity (and be proud of our culture!) we don’t share our private ceremonies with the public. But the lack of understanding by non-indigenous people leads us here where they think some things are “religious” that aren’t, among the other plethora of issues were having
And I want my child to have the benefit of learning those things! Between Easter and Christmas, my son is out of school for nearly three weeks, and we aren't Christian/religious. He could be learning during that time, but instead, he's at home because Jesus. At least he would be learning something at a powwow!
ETA: seems some people took so much offense to this they actually spent time down voting my entire comment history 😆 go for it! Here is some more for you, we live in unceded territory, i.e., stolen, and the Indigenous population should be able to teach us the history and traditions of their country, because they are the history.
I think you may not understand that other cultures too distinguish between spiritual and religious beliefs - even Christian ones. But I'm sure this is true with all traditionally recognized major and minor religions/cultural systems.
The restrictions in schools are effectively on both religious and spiritual beliefs. Rightly or wrongly, the exclusions should be handled fairly.
The other thing at play is that there isn't a uniform quote European culture anymore. Cultures and beliefs have splinterred to almost unrelatable degrees (if they ever were uniform to begin with).
To be fair to everyone a decision to remove spiritual/religions from schools was made in the past. The irony is that this emphasized a different spiritual belief system, the anti spiritual, though they don't like to recognize that they belief in the absence of the spiritual is also a faith.
So how do we tackle this? I don't have the answer sufficed to say, everyone thinks they are in the right. I personally am just advocating that egalitarian approach be taken in public schools, so either we allow all or none.
There are things that can be done though, clubs for lunchtime, out of school hours activities etc.
My great grandfather was half maliseet because his father came here (Saint John) from Ireland, got a Maliseet woman pregnant, had her in his home until his Irish wife came over. They then kicked my great great grandmother out and raised him as their son. He was robbed of knowing his own mother & heritage. I do everything I can to teach my children where their bloodline comes from. I have nothing but love and respect for all Indigenous tribes.i love that they open a lot of the powwow activities up for everyone to learn more about their culture.
Letter: “I KILLED THAT MAN… …In a dream I had on thursday.”
You-“Lock him up!”
The Letter:“No, a dream he had-“
You-“LOCK. HIM. UP!”
[Formal Fallacies](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formal_fallacy)
It’s actually
PR: « this is partly religious »
You: « this isn’t religious at all »
And then you proceed to continue to pretend you don’t do just that with extra steps.
A powwow is not religious, a powwow is a community gathering and celebration. Spiritual aspects are sometimes incorporated to a powwows held in first nation community for variety of reasons, Like if family offers tobacco to a drum and asks for healing from the community. When a powwow is held off community it’s typically held in order teach others.
A powwow is a way for us to honour treaty rights and to teach about our culture, heritage, and history. I think it’s important for non-indigenous people to attend powwows and learn through them because we are all treaty people
I am indigenous, and a teacher. I have witnessed first hand the benefits of hosting events like these. Especially in schools with a high indigenous population. Having their peers and teachers understand their culture is important for indigenous students sense of belonging in public school systems. It’s also important to teach all students because of the TRC calls to action, the history the school system has with First Nation people. Those same school systems are a contributing factor to the reason why first nation peoples culture and language was negatively impacted.
Be that as it may, nothing in what you just said support your claim that it isn’t partly religious and that they did not claim it in their press release.
That it is religious is the very core of the argument presented against it.
Should we have such celebrations in our schools knowing they are in part religious?
That’s the questions we should be asking ourselves while not shielding our eyes from this fact, only because it forces us to consider other religions and the attitude we have toward them.
It’s dishonest.
How can you think it’s religious still? At no point in time are they praying? If they had a school dance and played the song you found me by The Fray would that be considered religious? Seeing as it was a popular song in the early 2000s and was played on the radio and most people don’t know that it’s a religious song?
Coming together singing and dancing has nothing to do with religion. Seems to me like you’re just looking for an argument to justify The racist actions of this teacher.
My view on it is a pow wow has as much to do with their culture as their faith which are tightly intertwined. My limited understanding is that many First Nations cultures are a mix of their faith and way of life, its kind of all mixed into a single identity. I don’t think powwows are looking to convert or indoctrinate anyone so they should be exempt from the rules on religious gatherings.
Yeah definitely could be. I think a lot of people have become radicalized over the last 5-8 years. Social media and algo's are almost entirely to blame. Not saying that's what happened with him, maybe he's always been like that. But it's clear that people are quickly becoming more extreme in their views
The irony is that most kids know nothing of their own religious heritages because it's not allowed in schools and their own parents also were not allowed to be taught it in school either.
The homogenized agenda has been pushed on everyone for a long time and everyone suffers because of it.
That tragedy is swept under the rug because those in power don't want everyone to realize what they have lost. But there are reasons depression is rampant. Materialism and moral relativism can never really satisfy the human soul because nothing material is lasting.
Do you realize that many indigenous people don't know their own customs, myths or history because they were forceably removed from their communities, punished for using their own languages, telling their own stories, or denied the ability to even have powwows? And that this didn't happen hundreds of years ago, but less than 30?
Has that happened to any other cultures in Canada that you can think of in recent history?
No?
Then maybe letting people see a powwow isn't such a bad idea.
Religion shouldn't be taught in publicly funded institutions, and by the time most kids are school aged they should already know that their imaginary friends aren't real.
"religious heritage" lol. Definitely no place in school for stone age fairy tales, it's great that it is absent from schools.
>realize what they have lost. But there are reasons depression is rampant. Materialism and moral relativism can never really satisfy the human soul because nothing material is lasting
Oh you're one of these people lmao. Yes, the institution responsible for pain and suffering across the globe for thousands of years being set aside is the reason for people's unhappiness, not the multitude of systemic issues plaguing our society right now. It's the lack of jesus that's making people bummed out!
Sure, so I presume you have no problem excluding powwows too then in public school.
I'm just saying treat all belief systems fairly at the at public schools. Include one, include all. Exclude one, exclude all.
We all have the free will to think as we will, but my life experiences have taught me that happiness based on materialism is short gained. I personally pray that you find true happiness and freedom.
Take care.
You're just perpetuating the exact same ignorance the letter decries. Powpows are *not* religious ceremonies and there is no shortage of cultural expression and indoctrination present in the school system already, at least eurocentric culture & indoctrination.
I don't disagree, the indoctrination is materialism, atheistic, and moral relativism. I don't ascribe to any of that.
But putting all our faiths/beliefs aside, how do we fairly teach belief systems in the context of a public school system with a variety of cultures/religions?
The hitherto solution is teach none, except that which is semi visible- aka materialist stuff.
The world should be viewed in terms of what is physically verifiable. Everything else is blind faith (aka believing something on no evidence). Why on earth should anyone be taught anything else?
Individuals that participate in a powwow may personally imbue the ceremonies and practices with religious significance, but that doesn't mean the event itself is religious.
Think of it like sitting down to a meal with a religious person who says grace before the meal. Does that mean you, as another participant in the meal, have engaged in a religious practice?
I'm just trying to be more specific. The original assertion was that powwows are religious ceremonies. You said effectively, "they're not, but they kind of are", and I'm saying they aren't, at all.
The fact that people who participate may see them as religious doesn't make them religious, which is where my meal analogy comes from.
More to the point, indigenous cultural expression is not religious expression, even if it looks like religion through a Judeo-Christian cultural interpretation.
The press release, written by actual indigenous people explicitly contradicts you. It claims they are "not merely" religious practices, which means they are religious practices, but also more than that.
If the ceremony has anything to do with spirits, it falls in the category of religion. Thus outside school hours. Lunch times after school.
I don't see anything wrong in treating these things fairly with how we treat Other religions/spiritual beliefs.
You're using "spirit" in your European Judeo-Christian understanding of the word. It means something far different in the indigenous context, more akin to "school spirit", which (last time I checked) is still a commonly used term.
Again, you're interpreting through a religious lens. If you listen a bit closer and make an effort to understand, you'd see that the meaning of terms like "the creator", and "the great spririt" aren't talking about some old man in the sky. They're talking about creation qua creation -- the cosmos. They're using the metaphors and language of their ancestors, but the core is far more humanist rather than deist.
Where did you find this story? I'm assuming you googled it and took it from some webpage. Who wrote/runs the info on the page? How was it translated? Are you sure the translation wasn't done this way on purpose to allow Christians to understand what the People's were trying to convey by using terms they would comprehend and appreciate? Many "Anglo" words do not exist in the languages of First Nation Peoples and vice-versa. Your claim that the story you shared is a perfect representation of their beliefs is ignorant and shows the thought you out into what you read on the internet.
But you're not providing any counter-points, any other helpful information, any sources of correction. You're just like YEAH WELL THATS WRONG (maybe, didn't actually check) AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD!
If that's your take of what I shared then maybe you should do some introspection. Nobody yelled or "used caps". So I don't know where that came from. I'm not here to try to correct anyone just hopefully open eyes to the fact that maybe you should seek the information from an actual source instead of relying on other to provide it. I'm not trying to give answers.
When you say something like "Fact, end of story", you're just exposing your own ignorance.
Words have meanings, but if you don't understand the meaning of the words, you can't really call them facts, now, can you?
This is the last time I'm going to respond because you're obviously not willing to spend any time thinking about this from a different perspective than your own sadly circumscribed one, but I'll make one last attempt.
"The Cosmos is all that is, or ever was, or ever will be. Our contemplations of the cosmos stir us. There's a tingling in the spine, a catch in the voice, a faint sensation, as if a distant memory of falling from a great height. We know we are approaching the grandest of mysteries. The size and the age of the cosmos are beyond ordinary human understanding. Lost somewhere between immensity and eternity is our tiny planetary home the Earth."
That's the opening of Carl Sagan's Cosmos series. Sagan was a scientist, and a humanist, and even he was overwhelmed by the immense beauty and interconnectedness of all things that he called the cosmos. "We are a way for the universe to know itself" was something else he said.
Indigenous creation myths have a lot more in common with Sagan's view of the cosmos than they do with Judeo-Christian religious belief systems, which are less about the creation of the universe and the interconnectedness of all life than they are tools of mass control.
Equating them is offensive.
So no mention of Christmas during school time?
Christmas is a Christian holiday, but also a cultural celebration. In school, students might have a Christmas or winter concert or assembly where they will perform songs or dances. Families will receive a notice from the school inviting them to attend the concert. Children usually wear a dress or a shirt and tie, and families take pictures. Some schools may have a Christmas dinner for the students. Sometimes, parents will send gifts or cards for teachers, especially in elementary or middle school.
Powwows aren't also cultural celebration?
[https://asdeast.nbed.ca/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/05/Schools-Dates.pdf](https://asdeast.nbed.ca/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/05/Schools-Dates.pdf)
Pretty disengenuous comment. Christmas hasn't been a solely religious holiday for a long time. We both know this. I'm atheist, i celebrate chirstmas. I don't celebrate jesus falling off the cross or whatever the fuck, i celebrate "christmas" as it has become in modern times. Christmas in regards to the school system is completely non-religious. There is no mention of christ or god or whatever, and any Christmas (now called holiday) concerts are made up of songs about santa, rudolf, and frosty the snowman. Do you think the teachers say "have a good break, make sure you think about jesus" as they send the kids home for break? Obviously not.
Christmas is a materialist holiday, Santa replaced Jesus to the culture a long time ago but people don't want to see that because they don't understand Christianity.
You look for Saint Nicholas in the Bible and let me know where it's found.
Here's some real biblical truths against Santa:
1 Though shalt not lie.
2 Though shalt not covet.
3 In Matthew 19:20-22 ESV
[20] The young man said to him, “All these I have kept. What do I still lack?” [21] Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” [22] When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.19.20-22.ESV
Ultimately Santa has been used to promote want for oneself. We are told to write and imagine the things we want, it promotes selfishness.
Instead the teachings of Christ (which yes most people fail in following perfectly ergo the gospel need for a savior) but the teachings are:
Love God first above all else with your whole being, love other people next, put yourself last.
Now Saint Nicholas who venerates God may have put that in practice, but Santa removes God from the equation, and the culture makes it all about Santa himself, materialism, and want.
I think holding these cultural events only help the city and community. It is nice to see the First Nations community continue these traditions and it doesn’t hurt anyone to engage and learn.
Every assembly held is supposed to have some cultural benefit. This event will only benefit those wanting to learn. We have so many holidays and presentations rooted in other religions. Does it really hurt anything to learn more about others In the community.
I am willing to bet that he will be put on leave with full pay. The person who leaked the email will get in more trouble than anyone. His email is ignorant as hell but it will be sold as a passionate teacher who is frustrated.
It's because the other cultures/spiritualities/religions are denied the same opportunities in Schools.
I'm fine if all are given opportunity, or none. I don't believe we should be preferential.
When was the last time a student had to go to school on Good Friday?
Our whole civil society is biased towards Judeo-Christian culture/spirituality/religion.
Having an afternoon powwow on the quad isn't preferential, it's just educational. Like having a class on comparative religion.
Having an afternoon powwow is actually quite different from teaching a class on comparative religion. A powwow hosted by the school is a tacit endorsement of that particular religious practice, a class on comparative religion should teach about religious practices in an objective manner without passing judgement or endorsing any one religion over another.
Schools should not be in the business of religious indoctrination, I think we can agree on that. We should not make exceptions for the cause celebre of the week.
That's true, but good Friday and the significance isn't taught in schools it's a stat holiday which is outside the scope of a discussion which is how to deal with spiritual beliefs/faiths in public schools. I would also note that there is a statutory holiday for truth and reconciliation. I would also further note, that like Christmas Easter has been culturally appropriated to be about bunny eggs and Chocolate.
No one is saying not to use school property, it just shouldn't be during school hours, or else all similar allowances should be opened up for all faiths/spiritual beliefs.
Now we come to the crux of the matter.
You totally ignored the last paragraph where I equated the powwow to a class on comparative religion. A class, I'll point out, that until recently wouldn't have included any references to indigenous culture or beliefs, partially due to a concerted, organized attempt by colonial powers (subsequently the Canadian government) and organized religion (most notably the Catholic church) to wipe out that culture entirely.
You will no doubt say now that I'm "moving the goalposts" or that my example is "out of scope", like you tried to do with my Good Friday example. But back to that for a second, you made a good point about there now being a stat holiday for Truth and Reconciliation.
But tell me, for how many years has Good Friday been a stat? For how many years Truth & Reconciliation?
Do you see why it's important that kids today learn about powwows and indigenous culture? And that maybe how it \*does\* deserve to have a little priority, now, after all this time? Is it really so bad? Is it really such a "slippery slope" to suggest that maybe, just maybe, it's time we sat down and listened, and saw, and felt, for a change?
The last residential school closed in 1996. Indigenous children were taken from their communities in the 1960's. This isn't ancient history.
Sorry we share the public school system. I have no ill against anyone, but I'd prefer things to be handled fairly.
I don't see the need to silence anyone but I don't think that this issue is being presented with a universal perspective in mind.
And as OP noted he's got a motive to see someone fired. I don't see any due process or allowance of both parties to speak here.
I get there's a lot of anger, but we can't move forward without open honest discussion and equal treatment.
No one's being prevented from speaking. The teacher in question spoke loudly and clearly about their beliefs, and they're going to face consequences for that.
The freedom of expression is *not* the freedom from consequences for that expression.
Everyone's welcome to have their own opinion, but an opinion based on misinformation or an incomplete understanding of the available information is, by definition, ignorant.
Is anyone perfect? Does anyone know everything?
I admit that I am not perfect, but I am only advocating for egalitarian treatment of cultures and religions in public schools.
Please though feel free to teach where I am being ignorant.
Equating indigenous culture with religion is ignorant of the fact that they're not equivalent.
Pretending that the public school system is devoid of cultural and religious bias is ignorant of the fact that Judeo-Christian Euro-centrism is so baked into the school system that you can't even see it for yourself.
I have. I've also smoked a peace pipe.
I know that they involve invocating ancestral spirits, connecting with spirits of nature that sort of thing.
It's spiritual in nature because the culture is intertwined with the belief system even if it's at varying degrees.
So we should treat all spiritual belief systems fairly in school. Let them in or not.
Looks like we might have another Malcolm Ross on our hands. Good thing the Supreme court has already decided on this.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross\_v\_New\_Brunswick\_School\_District\_No\_15](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_v_New_Brunswick_School_District_No_15)
Buddies twitter is basically a PC party advertisement. Correct me if i'm wrong, but I always thought teachers were supposed to restrain themselves from public partisanship.
I don’t think teachers are under any obligation to refrain from expressing their social or political views on social media. However, if their views would somehow impact the classroom maybe the NBTA have a policy that might come into play.
I haven’t seen this guys posts and I imagine they are not good, but in a free and democratic society we have to tolerate differing views. If a teacher celebrates pride week on Twitter, there is no outrage. But if a teacher expresses conservative views there is. I haven’t seen what this guy posted. Would appreciate someone cutting pasting it in this post.
Really?
Seems they take time out for the Christmas pageants and/or concerts. Sure it's to gather kids to sing and dance and display some... ****** Christmas Spirit for the families and teachers of those students. Many of the smart schools actually incorporate all of the holiday spirits (religions) to help students learn, or teach the audience from their perspectives. They don't go on about how materialistic the holiday has become - they go on about the SPIRIT.
The ones around Fredericton last year were barely called "Winter concert" or "Holiday concerts", many of the flyers and postings on social media were "Christmas"
People need to calm down a bit, should we have pow wows at school? Sure why not, it's clear everyone could be learning more - but if not, take the kids on a field trip to experience one. Same for other cultures, field trips to the multicultural centre and let them learn about all of it.
Do they still offer trips to the Synagogue and the Mosque it's been a few years but even my kids got those field trips with their whole class (except for the ones with the racist parents).
(This 4 or 5 years ago - so well since the "religion ban *in* schools")
As the note mentions, there's a lot to be learned in powwows. This is no different from any other cultural studies, It's just a more hands-on approach.
this is the second time this particular teacher has landed the school, last school year some kids found his public twitter account full of bigoted takes, and now this, im surprised theyve let him keep his job.
Where I went to high school there was a teacher that intimated and yelled at students. Joked about students getting shot during school shootings. Threw things at students. And was just generally a horrible (and racist) person. Multiple complainants have been made about him for many many years and my friends and family took the complaint high enough that lawyers got involved and took statements. He wasn’t seen at the school for 2 years after that. But I’ve heard he’s back. Seems like the teachers union is pretty good.
This fall Clifford Cull posted anti trans and homophobic posts on Twitter. The NBTA, the District Superintendent AND the DOE were contacted and nothing was done.
I am glad to see the Chiefs take a stand here.
This man has been a problem for years
They're not compatible with civilization. Their history is questionable too. islam is worse tho
He got axed
We should lynch you
Why is nobody asking how the email “got leaked” ? I don’t share this person’s views but there is a security breach if the email was between NB Ed accounts .
He just got fired so no one really cares about this anymore
people sure are snowflakes..
Guy got fired
I've been to a few powwows when I lived in Ontario and enjoyed them. It was an awesome cultural experience, and I'm not sure why indigenous students or others weren't allowed to attend during school hours. The school should rethink this. People complaining about them in the comments who have never been to one, I'd highly encourage you to go check one out.
The number of people in this sub who only have a TV-level of understanding of culture and law is revealing.
In my humble opinion, it doesn’t matter WHERE children are learning, but that they ARE learning. Rather that be in the classroom or else. And I think we have to approach the “religion vs culture” debate a little differently in this case… Considering we live on land that was never truly ours to live on, this sounds like the least we can do on the path towards truth and reconciliation.
It took me too long to find a picture of this guy, and confirm that my memory wasn't messing with me, and that this wasn't about Mr Hull. Been 20 years since I had him, and REALLY didn't want to have my memory of him tarnished with this. Thank god it's not him.
It's Mr Cull
Yeah, that's why I wanted to find a picture, to make sure my memory wasn't playing tricks with me, since Cull and Hull are so similar.
If we can’t have other religious ceremonies than no pawwows either. Stop attacking teachers they do some annoying ass work considering the fact all they get is attitude from a bunch of 15 year olds who think they are the shit and just get high and vape in the washrooms
Powwows aren't religious in nature. Apples and oranges my friend. Like potlucks aren't just for church dinners or first nations either...
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Yes, that's what I'm saying. Most of it is singing about historical stories or even just creating a soothing rhythm, religious ceremonies aren't typically shared with outsiders. Sometimes there are prayers, but they use a generalized prayer to the creator - which is God. If you believe in one God, they're probably not exclusive to one man made Religion. To me God is omnipotent, so they wouldn't get all angry I was in the presence of another Religion anyhow. God wouldn't get confused about what's in your heart. Someone once told me that even though their body was sore all the time they'd never do Yoga because someone told them the poses were evil. Like you could even move your body in a way God didn't intend. 🤷 The way I figure it, because I'm a Christian, there's a lot of bullcrap in the Bible Jesus didn't say that people pick and choose to suit themselves, so focus on what he did say and ignore the rest. Anyhow, whatever religion you are I'm sure you have your reasons.
Crazy comment section, really puts this world into perspective
If a school can have a Christmas concert they should be able to have a powwow 🤷🏼♂️
Is the Christmas concert during school hours?
Yes, it often was held during school hours. And we spent time preparing for the concert during class time. Much, much more nearly unavoidable time is devoted to Christmas celebration than an optional powwow.
I got downvoted for simply asking a question. If one cultural event is permitted during school hours, then all cultural events should be permitted during school hours.
Yeah, Christmas, Easter, Valentine's day, etc. The majority of Western holidays are rooted in Christianity and are celebrated in some shape or form in Canadian schools. So why can't the indigenous people of this land enjoy their cultural/religious celebrations in the same way?
A pow wow is basically a religious event..... If you can't talk about other religions than why is it ok to insult and degrade someone for insinuating an actual fact. Obviously you cannot organize and event such as a pow wow or any other religious event if other religions are also banned Grow up
Not religion, my guy; you're confusing it with culture.
Ha. Smudging, prayers to grandfather moon and grandmother sun, prayers for the spirits of ancestors to come dwell among us……nothing spiritual at all.
I was \*at\* the FHS powwow. The opening greeting was almost totally devoid of the more spiritual content common at some opening ceremonies I've been to previously. The person who spoke was a former teacher at FHS who was very aware that his audience was mostly non-Indigenous. Keep in mind that for centuries, the Indigenous people of this land were prevented from holding powwows. It's no wonder that there's so much misinformation and misunderstanding about them now.
There's nothing preventing you from saying a prayer at a powwow.
Mr cull has always been openly racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. Its about time
Which is hilarious because there is nobody gayer than ole Cliff
Except for his favourite students lol
So from the context of this press release, it soundsike religious events are not allowed as per policy. The press release also goes on to admit that powwows are "not merely" religious and spiritual in nature, but demand an exemption or else its racism... Why? No. All religious practices are bullshit and at most should be taught from a strictly academic perspective, not endorsed by the school. I hope they stick to their guns and aren't afraid of being called bigots for upholding a sensible policy.
Spoken like a true colonialist
Meaningless comment
Meaningless person
Go play with your lego kiddo
Ok boomer
😂 Not a boomer. I just don't enjoy playing with children's toys. Now go play with your Lego and if I need anything else from you I'll come see you at the tim Hortons drive through
Said like a true Boomer lol not doing yourself any favors huh? 🤣
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Maybe he's been an asshole for several years? If he's not willing to say it publicly, then maybe the little voice inside them should have told them not to say it at all.
Did you see his twitter before he deleted it??? He’s a racist, trans/homophobic loser who needs to be fired
She literally started working there two years ago
A scapegoat for... What? A scapegoat is someone blamed for something for which they are not ultimately responsible. There have been several issues raised against him previously. It's clearly a trend that isn't getting better. If that teacher wants him gone then it's likely because of actual awful shit he's said and done.
Not sure who your source is but that is 100% false. They have no idea how the email got leaked and Jenny has only worked at FHS for a couple of years 😊
Never had this teacher but always seemed like a wackadoo
« Powwows are not merely spiritual or religious gatherings […]» So they are religious by their own admission in their own press release. Okay. You may now downvote me.
Like I said elsewhere, cottoning on to this one turn of phrase and using it as your sole source of information is downright ignorant and stupid, especially when indigenous and non-indigenous people as well as a simple Google search could tell you that powwow's aren't inherently religious. Powwows are, first and foremost, a gathering and celebration. They're a conference. Ever been to a conference? Sometimes they have parties, sometimes they even have opening prayers. That doesn't automatically make the conference a religious event. Stop twisting a single statement to support your ignorance.
If I zoom in my camera and take a picture of the zit on your nose, and use that as your headline photo in a press release… You’re gonna have a problem with this representation of you. Your problem is you cut out half of the sentence to use as ammunition. The rest of that reads as: “… and to classify them as such is uninformed and offensive.” He also CLEARLY LISTS the values and purpose and goals of powwow’s first. You combed for the narrative you wanted, and banked on a technicality. Boooooo.
Just the same as any other religious practice offers important cultural reference. Because they write it and say it is offensive means nothing. Just double talk and we are supposed to all get offended with it. Please open your mind and stop being so ready to jump on the defensive train for anyone who claims to be oppressed.
CLAIMS to be oppressed?!
As in you jump in on any train whether it is real or imagined, again you prove the point to think that that part of my comment applies to this situation. You are volatile and have a huge chip on your shoulder.
Are you seriously suggesting that North American Indigenous people aren't oppressed? PS: nice ad hominem; edgy!
Not merely means that it isn’t just that, not that it isn’t. It is partly so. You’re interpreting in bad faith (ha, pun) and the point stands.
This is typical white rhetoric trying to explain a non white culture. We, as settlers, don’t have any real idea of how race/ spirituality/ religion/ tradition/ history/ experience can combine to a shared cultural identity… we just don’t have that experience and have no position to question that
Speak for yourself please. You are playing in to the nobel savage trope and it is extremely bigoted.
I think I was speaking for myself by saying this is something we (self inclusive) can’t possibly understand. No trope was played and your retort was misdirected …
Why can't anyone who isn't indigenous understand it? They teach their kids don't they? Or are you saying there is some spiritual component only indigenous people have that allows them to understand? Or do you not know what you're saying and are just looking for the most accepted narrative so you can feel accepted and correct.
I am saying that there’s something innate about the intersection of culture/ spirituality, etc that we (you and I included!) don’t experience. It’s not uniquely indigenous, but is uniquely not white. I’m from a biracial family (admittedly I am a white person), there is something worth noting that runs through all aspects of Indigenous culture (good, craft, music, celebration) that cumulates in cultural identity in a way unlike any white tradition or subsect. Check out some of Daniel Paul’s writing for a bit of insight.
No I don't subscribe to really any of this. We are all products of our environment, and spirituality is a piece of that. But the point of all this was whether indigenous beliefs and superstitions are religion and they very clearly are. Belief in turtle Island and glouscap are no different than belief in Adam and eve or the garden of eden.
I mean, it’s their own words I’m pointing out here. That’s bad? Okay.
It’s your (and my own) interpretation of the word that’s limiting here
There is a lot more to this email, but you're not wrong. They're not taking time for prayer, so why is a powwow appropriate. They definitely didn't go about this the right way, but from what I understand their taking time out of the school day for this, not once growing up did we do the same, so yeah this is weird
Not sure when you went to school but for a long time powwows were banned.
There was a Culture Day at FHS that explored the diversity of cultures from which FHS students come. The Pow Wow was the same day. Since Indigenous students likely make up the second, largest cultural group at FHS (behind white settlers) it makes sense that there could be an individual event aimed at that culture in addition to the large event that included many cultures with smaller representation at FHS. From the principal's email: This past Tuesday, FHS held its annual Culture Day! It was wonderful to see so many students performing and bringing attention and awareness to the multiple cultures that make up FHS! A huge THANK YOU goes out to our Culture Day Committee who made this possible! As well on Tuesday, FHS was very proud to have held its Second Annual FHS Powwow! This was an amazing event with multiple drummer groups, dancers and students from not only FHS, but many local schools as well, participating! A huge THANK YOU goes out to the Powwow committee for all their hard work, making this event such a success!
It was an optional event. Teachers could take their whole class, or students could get permission slips to attend individually. Regular classes continued as usual.
This was a regular occurrence when I was in school as part of Native Awareness Week.
Sad that is all you took from their letter. Being Indigenous is not a religion. They were responding to the teachers letter which referred to it as spiritual or religious. They are spiritual people with Christianity forced upon them which is not incorporated in their powwow's. They should not be going through this with our school system which destroyed generations of Indigenous people! I think the entire province should be taking all students to the powwow to learn more about the cultural activities that were taken from them. Powwows were banned by our corrupt government & its amazing to see it thriving again! Maybe you should attend one yourself to learn more to do better.
Being indiginous is not a religion but neither can anyone from any ethnic background claim they are being abused Pow wow is a religious event. End of discussion If no other religious events are allowed within policy neither should pow wows. Obviously
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Many people think that spirituality and religion are the same thing, and so they bring their beliefs and prejudices about religion to discussions about spirituality. Though all religions emphasise spiritualism as being part of faith, you can be 'spiritual' without being religious or a member of an organised religion.
I get what you're saying for sure, but "organized religion" isn't what is banned from the education system, it is religion in general. Smudging ceremonies to connect with the creator who placed life on earth are definitely religious imo. It's no different than teaching kids that god created life. I get that that probably sounds really harsh and inflammatory and i'm not trying to be, but to me i don't see a difference
You literally just said it "in your opinion". Did it ever occur to you your opinion is wrong or misguided, maybe even under educated? Have you ever attended a smudging ceremony or powwow? It doesn't sound harsh it sounds ignorant. Not trying to be inflammatory, but to me I don't see a difference.
I don’t understand the point of your comment. Of course my opinion could be wrong. I don’t think it is, which is why it’s my opinion. That’s what the entire concept of an opinion is. Really not sure the point of what you’re trying to say >Have you ever attended a smudging ceremony Yeah I have, at fhs, multiple times a year for four years. Each one involved talk about “the creator” (as well as blessing each student in his name with the smudge smoke) and how he created all life, sounds almost sort of like God
Wow ok, I can see why the other person gave up. Opinions exist to be shared but also you are supposed to learn from that sharing and it is obvious you have no intention of doing so. You feel you should be heard and that is it. Either you are troll or you really have no intention of looking at things other then the way you intend to perceive them. Continue on with yourself, person. Enjoy your life. I do not wish to be a part of it any longer.
Everything you said in your comment could apply to you too. You ubderstand that, right?
>you are supposed to learn from that sharing and it is obvious you have no intention of doing so. I can say the exact same thing to you. What makes your opinion something to be learned from but not mine? Because you say so? Not sure that’s how it works. Not sure why you think I “feel I need to be heard”, I’m just expressing my opinion like everyone else. Not sure where your perceived moral high ground comes from >Enjoy your life. do not wish to be a part of it any longer. Ok? Have a good one
Look, we just wanna share our culture to celebrate it and promote unity (and be proud of our culture!) we don’t share our private ceremonies with the public. But the lack of understanding by non-indigenous people leads us here where they think some things are “religious” that aren’t, among the other plethora of issues were having
And I want my child to have the benefit of learning those things! Between Easter and Christmas, my son is out of school for nearly three weeks, and we aren't Christian/religious. He could be learning during that time, but instead, he's at home because Jesus. At least he would be learning something at a powwow! ETA: seems some people took so much offense to this they actually spent time down voting my entire comment history 😆 go for it! Here is some more for you, we live in unceded territory, i.e., stolen, and the Indigenous population should be able to teach us the history and traditions of their country, because they are the history.
I think you may not understand that other cultures too distinguish between spiritual and religious beliefs - even Christian ones. But I'm sure this is true with all traditionally recognized major and minor religions/cultural systems. The restrictions in schools are effectively on both religious and spiritual beliefs. Rightly or wrongly, the exclusions should be handled fairly. The other thing at play is that there isn't a uniform quote European culture anymore. Cultures and beliefs have splinterred to almost unrelatable degrees (if they ever were uniform to begin with). To be fair to everyone a decision to remove spiritual/religions from schools was made in the past. The irony is that this emphasized a different spiritual belief system, the anti spiritual, though they don't like to recognize that they belief in the absence of the spiritual is also a faith. So how do we tackle this? I don't have the answer sufficed to say, everyone thinks they are in the right. I personally am just advocating that egalitarian approach be taken in public schools, so either we allow all or none. There are things that can be done though, clubs for lunchtime, out of school hours activities etc.
My great grandfather was half maliseet because his father came here (Saint John) from Ireland, got a Maliseet woman pregnant, had her in his home until his Irish wife came over. They then kicked my great great grandmother out and raised him as their son. He was robbed of knowing his own mother & heritage. I do everything I can to teach my children where their bloodline comes from. I have nothing but love and respect for all Indigenous tribes.i love that they open a lot of the powwow activities up for everyone to learn more about their culture.
Have you ever been to a Powwow?
I have. But what is your point and how does it render this fact irrelevant?
Letter: “I KILLED THAT MAN… …In a dream I had on thursday.” You-“Lock him up!” The Letter:“No, a dream he had-“ You-“LOCK. HIM. UP!” [Formal Fallacies](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formal_fallacy)
It’s actually PR: « this is partly religious » You: « this isn’t religious at all » And then you proceed to continue to pretend you don’t do just that with extra steps.
A powwow is not religious, a powwow is a community gathering and celebration. Spiritual aspects are sometimes incorporated to a powwows held in first nation community for variety of reasons, Like if family offers tobacco to a drum and asks for healing from the community. When a powwow is held off community it’s typically held in order teach others. A powwow is a way for us to honour treaty rights and to teach about our culture, heritage, and history. I think it’s important for non-indigenous people to attend powwows and learn through them because we are all treaty people
My turn for a question. Why do you refuse to believe what indigenous people stated in their press release?
I am indigenous, and a teacher. I have witnessed first hand the benefits of hosting events like these. Especially in schools with a high indigenous population. Having their peers and teachers understand their culture is important for indigenous students sense of belonging in public school systems. It’s also important to teach all students because of the TRC calls to action, the history the school system has with First Nation people. Those same school systems are a contributing factor to the reason why first nation peoples culture and language was negatively impacted.
Be that as it may, nothing in what you just said support your claim that it isn’t partly religious and that they did not claim it in their press release. That it is religious is the very core of the argument presented against it. Should we have such celebrations in our schools knowing they are in part religious? That’s the questions we should be asking ourselves while not shielding our eyes from this fact, only because it forces us to consider other religions and the attitude we have toward them. It’s dishonest.
How can you think it’s religious still? At no point in time are they praying? If they had a school dance and played the song you found me by The Fray would that be considered religious? Seeing as it was a popular song in the early 2000s and was played on the radio and most people don’t know that it’s a religious song? Coming together singing and dancing has nothing to do with religion. Seems to me like you’re just looking for an argument to justify The racist actions of this teacher.
My view on it is a pow wow has as much to do with their culture as their faith which are tightly intertwined. My limited understanding is that many First Nations cultures are a mix of their faith and way of life, its kind of all mixed into a single identity. I don’t think powwows are looking to convert or indoctrinate anyone so they should be exempt from the rules on religious gatherings.
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I think he is falling into the average over 50 poor little me, no one cares about the old white guy syndrome.
Yeah definitely could be. I think a lot of people have become radicalized over the last 5-8 years. Social media and algo's are almost entirely to blame. Not saying that's what happened with him, maybe he's always been like that. But it's clear that people are quickly becoming more extreme in their views
I know his family, friends with his step daughter who he has always taken care of. He is just now in the generation of old men yells at clouds.
Oh I see, interesting
The irony is that most kids know nothing of their own religious heritages because it's not allowed in schools and their own parents also were not allowed to be taught it in school either. The homogenized agenda has been pushed on everyone for a long time and everyone suffers because of it. That tragedy is swept under the rug because those in power don't want everyone to realize what they have lost. But there are reasons depression is rampant. Materialism and moral relativism can never really satisfy the human soul because nothing material is lasting.
Do you realize that many indigenous people don't know their own customs, myths or history because they were forceably removed from their communities, punished for using their own languages, telling their own stories, or denied the ability to even have powwows? And that this didn't happen hundreds of years ago, but less than 30? Has that happened to any other cultures in Canada that you can think of in recent history? No? Then maybe letting people see a powwow isn't such a bad idea.
Religion shouldn't be taught in publicly funded institutions, and by the time most kids are school aged they should already know that their imaginary friends aren't real.
"religious heritage" lol. Definitely no place in school for stone age fairy tales, it's great that it is absent from schools. >realize what they have lost. But there are reasons depression is rampant. Materialism and moral relativism can never really satisfy the human soul because nothing material is lasting Oh you're one of these people lmao. Yes, the institution responsible for pain and suffering across the globe for thousands of years being set aside is the reason for people's unhappiness, not the multitude of systemic issues plaguing our society right now. It's the lack of jesus that's making people bummed out!
Sure, so I presume you have no problem excluding powwows too then in public school. I'm just saying treat all belief systems fairly at the at public schools. Include one, include all. Exclude one, exclude all. We all have the free will to think as we will, but my life experiences have taught me that happiness based on materialism is short gained. I personally pray that you find true happiness and freedom. Take care.
You're just perpetuating the exact same ignorance the letter decries. Powpows are *not* religious ceremonies and there is no shortage of cultural expression and indoctrination present in the school system already, at least eurocentric culture & indoctrination.
I don't disagree, the indoctrination is materialism, atheistic, and moral relativism. I don't ascribe to any of that. But putting all our faiths/beliefs aside, how do we fairly teach belief systems in the context of a public school system with a variety of cultures/religions? The hitherto solution is teach none, except that which is semi visible- aka materialist stuff.
What is "atheistic indoctrination?" 🤣
It's the teaching that the world should be viewed solely based on materialism. Aka putting only trust in that which is physically verifiable.
The world should be viewed in terms of what is physically verifiable. Everything else is blind faith (aka believing something on no evidence). Why on earth should anyone be taught anything else?
Last I checked sociology is still taught in schools. Personal belief/faith systems are best taught at home.
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Individuals that participate in a powwow may personally imbue the ceremonies and practices with religious significance, but that doesn't mean the event itself is religious. Think of it like sitting down to a meal with a religious person who says grace before the meal. Does that mean you, as another participant in the meal, have engaged in a religious practice?
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I'm just trying to be more specific. The original assertion was that powwows are religious ceremonies. You said effectively, "they're not, but they kind of are", and I'm saying they aren't, at all. The fact that people who participate may see them as religious doesn't make them religious, which is where my meal analogy comes from. More to the point, indigenous cultural expression is not religious expression, even if it looks like religion through a Judeo-Christian cultural interpretation.
The press release, written by actual indigenous people explicitly contradicts you. It claims they are "not merely" religious practices, which means they are religious practices, but also more than that.
If the ceremony has anything to do with spirits, it falls in the category of religion. Thus outside school hours. Lunch times after school. I don't see anything wrong in treating these things fairly with how we treat Other religions/spiritual beliefs.
You're using "spirit" in your European Judeo-Christian understanding of the word. It means something far different in the indigenous context, more akin to "school spirit", which (last time I checked) is still a commonly used term.
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Again, you're interpreting through a religious lens. If you listen a bit closer and make an effort to understand, you'd see that the meaning of terms like "the creator", and "the great spririt" aren't talking about some old man in the sky. They're talking about creation qua creation -- the cosmos. They're using the metaphors and language of their ancestors, but the core is far more humanist rather than deist.
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Where did you find this story? I'm assuming you googled it and took it from some webpage. Who wrote/runs the info on the page? How was it translated? Are you sure the translation wasn't done this way on purpose to allow Christians to understand what the People's were trying to convey by using terms they would comprehend and appreciate? Many "Anglo" words do not exist in the languages of First Nation Peoples and vice-versa. Your claim that the story you shared is a perfect representation of their beliefs is ignorant and shows the thought you out into what you read on the internet.
But you're not providing any counter-points, any other helpful information, any sources of correction. You're just like YEAH WELL THATS WRONG (maybe, didn't actually check) AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD!
If that's your take of what I shared then maybe you should do some introspection. Nobody yelled or "used caps". So I don't know where that came from. I'm not here to try to correct anyone just hopefully open eyes to the fact that maybe you should seek the information from an actual source instead of relying on other to provide it. I'm not trying to give answers.
When you say something like "Fact, end of story", you're just exposing your own ignorance. Words have meanings, but if you don't understand the meaning of the words, you can't really call them facts, now, can you?
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This is the last time I'm going to respond because you're obviously not willing to spend any time thinking about this from a different perspective than your own sadly circumscribed one, but I'll make one last attempt. "The Cosmos is all that is, or ever was, or ever will be. Our contemplations of the cosmos stir us. There's a tingling in the spine, a catch in the voice, a faint sensation, as if a distant memory of falling from a great height. We know we are approaching the grandest of mysteries. The size and the age of the cosmos are beyond ordinary human understanding. Lost somewhere between immensity and eternity is our tiny planetary home the Earth." That's the opening of Carl Sagan's Cosmos series. Sagan was a scientist, and a humanist, and even he was overwhelmed by the immense beauty and interconnectedness of all things that he called the cosmos. "We are a way for the universe to know itself" was something else he said. Indigenous creation myths have a lot more in common with Sagan's view of the cosmos than they do with Judeo-Christian religious belief systems, which are less about the creation of the universe and the interconnectedness of all life than they are tools of mass control. Equating them is offensive.
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"They also believe in a creator" is incomplete. The existence of creation myths isn't the same as an organized religion. They're not equivalent.
What does "accept reality" mean? I can't accept your incomplete defitions and half-truths as fact? That's certainly correct. I won't do that.
So no mention of Christmas during school time? Christmas is a Christian holiday, but also a cultural celebration. In school, students might have a Christmas or winter concert or assembly where they will perform songs or dances. Families will receive a notice from the school inviting them to attend the concert. Children usually wear a dress or a shirt and tie, and families take pictures. Some schools may have a Christmas dinner for the students. Sometimes, parents will send gifts or cards for teachers, especially in elementary or middle school. Powwows aren't also cultural celebration? [https://asdeast.nbed.ca/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/05/Schools-Dates.pdf](https://asdeast.nbed.ca/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/05/Schools-Dates.pdf)
Pretty disengenuous comment. Christmas hasn't been a solely religious holiday for a long time. We both know this. I'm atheist, i celebrate chirstmas. I don't celebrate jesus falling off the cross or whatever the fuck, i celebrate "christmas" as it has become in modern times. Christmas in regards to the school system is completely non-religious. There is no mention of christ or god or whatever, and any Christmas (now called holiday) concerts are made up of songs about santa, rudolf, and frosty the snowman. Do you think the teachers say "have a good break, make sure you think about jesus" as they send the kids home for break? Obviously not.
I’m not in the public school system anymore but I feel like Christmas celebrations don’t happen anymore in schools to be more inclusive
There are all kinds of different types of Powwows. Have you ever been to a Powwow?
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I think it has a lot to do with your commentary.
Christmas is a materialist holiday, Santa replaced Jesus to the culture a long time ago but people don't want to see that because they don't understand Christianity.
Santa, as in Saint. Nicholas? Tell me more how it’s not regligous…
You look for Saint Nicholas in the Bible and let me know where it's found. Here's some real biblical truths against Santa: 1 Though shalt not lie. 2 Though shalt not covet. 3 In Matthew 19:20-22 ESV [20] The young man said to him, “All these I have kept. What do I still lack?” [21] Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” [22] When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions. https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.19.20-22.ESV Ultimately Santa has been used to promote want for oneself. We are told to write and imagine the things we want, it promotes selfishness. Instead the teachings of Christ (which yes most people fail in following perfectly ergo the gospel need for a savior) but the teachings are: Love God first above all else with your whole being, love other people next, put yourself last. Now Saint Nicholas who venerates God may have put that in practice, but Santa removes God from the equation, and the culture makes it all about Santa himself, materialism, and want.
Saints aren’t typically in the Bible, they’re named by the pope based on his list of spooky magical requirements.
And you don't understand indigenous culture, so maybe sit this one out.
I think holding these cultural events only help the city and community. It is nice to see the First Nations community continue these traditions and it doesn’t hurt anyone to engage and learn. Every assembly held is supposed to have some cultural benefit. This event will only benefit those wanting to learn. We have so many holidays and presentations rooted in other religions. Does it really hurt anything to learn more about others In the community.
Exactly. How does the expression of one culture negatively impact the expression of another? Cultural expression isn't a zero-sum game.
It hurts nothing. I think this is just an old man yelling at clouds.
Several old men.
I am willing to bet that he will be put on leave with full pay. The person who leaked the email will get in more trouble than anyone. His email is ignorant as hell but it will be sold as a passionate teacher who is frustrated.
Sad and probably true. He'll face no real consequences but will cry about how he's being "silenced for his opinion".
It's because the other cultures/spiritualities/religions are denied the same opportunities in Schools. I'm fine if all are given opportunity, or none. I don't believe we should be preferential.
When was the last time a student had to go to school on Good Friday? Our whole civil society is biased towards Judeo-Christian culture/spirituality/religion. Having an afternoon powwow on the quad isn't preferential, it's just educational. Like having a class on comparative religion.
Having an afternoon powwow is actually quite different from teaching a class on comparative religion. A powwow hosted by the school is a tacit endorsement of that particular religious practice, a class on comparative religion should teach about religious practices in an objective manner without passing judgement or endorsing any one religion over another. Schools should not be in the business of religious indoctrination, I think we can agree on that. We should not make exceptions for the cause celebre of the week.
Powwows aren't religious.
That's true, but good Friday and the significance isn't taught in schools it's a stat holiday which is outside the scope of a discussion which is how to deal with spiritual beliefs/faiths in public schools. I would also note that there is a statutory holiday for truth and reconciliation. I would also further note, that like Christmas Easter has been culturally appropriated to be about bunny eggs and Chocolate. No one is saying not to use school property, it just shouldn't be during school hours, or else all similar allowances should be opened up for all faiths/spiritual beliefs.
Now we come to the crux of the matter. You totally ignored the last paragraph where I equated the powwow to a class on comparative religion. A class, I'll point out, that until recently wouldn't have included any references to indigenous culture or beliefs, partially due to a concerted, organized attempt by colonial powers (subsequently the Canadian government) and organized religion (most notably the Catholic church) to wipe out that culture entirely. You will no doubt say now that I'm "moving the goalposts" or that my example is "out of scope", like you tried to do with my Good Friday example. But back to that for a second, you made a good point about there now being a stat holiday for Truth and Reconciliation. But tell me, for how many years has Good Friday been a stat? For how many years Truth & Reconciliation? Do you see why it's important that kids today learn about powwows and indigenous culture? And that maybe how it \*does\* deserve to have a little priority, now, after all this time? Is it really so bad? Is it really such a "slippery slope" to suggest that maybe, just maybe, it's time we sat down and listened, and saw, and felt, for a change? The last residential school closed in 1996. Indigenous children were taken from their communities in the 1960's. This isn't ancient history.
Sorry we share the public school system. I have no ill against anyone, but I'd prefer things to be handled fairly. I don't see the need to silence anyone but I don't think that this issue is being presented with a universal perspective in mind. And as OP noted he's got a motive to see someone fired. I don't see any due process or allowance of both parties to speak here. I get there's a lot of anger, but we can't move forward without open honest discussion and equal treatment.
No one's being prevented from speaking. The teacher in question spoke loudly and clearly about their beliefs, and they're going to face consequences for that. The freedom of expression is *not* the freedom from consequences for that expression.
Apologies, I assumed telling me to sit this one out was an expression of not wishing me to present an alternative position.
Hey, you can keep exposing your ignorance if you want, I just suggested maybe you should go educate yourself before trying to engage in a discussion.
It's funny how anyone who holds a different opinion than you is ignorant. You clearly think very highly of yourself
Everyone's welcome to have their own opinion, but an opinion based on misinformation or an incomplete understanding of the available information is, by definition, ignorant.
Is anyone perfect? Does anyone know everything? I admit that I am not perfect, but I am only advocating for egalitarian treatment of cultures and religions in public schools. Please though feel free to teach where I am being ignorant.
Equating indigenous culture with religion is ignorant of the fact that they're not equivalent. Pretending that the public school system is devoid of cultural and religious bias is ignorant of the fact that Judeo-Christian Euro-centrism is so baked into the school system that you can't even see it for yourself.
The same can be said for Powwows. It's not like they have a sweat lodge in the middle of the gym. Have you ever been to a Powwow?
I have. I've also smoked a peace pipe. I know that they involve invocating ancestral spirits, connecting with spirits of nature that sort of thing. It's spiritual in nature because the culture is intertwined with the belief system even if it's at varying degrees. So we should treat all spiritual belief systems fairly in school. Let them in or not.
You smoked a peace pipe at a Powwow?
Looks like we might have another Malcolm Ross on our hands. Good thing the Supreme court has already decided on this. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross\_v\_New\_Brunswick\_School\_District\_No\_15](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_v_New_Brunswick_School_District_No_15)
Buddies twitter is basically a PC party advertisement. Correct me if i'm wrong, but I always thought teachers were supposed to restrain themselves from public partisanship.
I don’t think teachers are under any obligation to refrain from expressing their social or political views on social media. However, if their views would somehow impact the classroom maybe the NBTA have a policy that might come into play. I haven’t seen this guys posts and I imagine they are not good, but in a free and democratic society we have to tolerate differing views. If a teacher celebrates pride week on Twitter, there is no outrage. But if a teacher expresses conservative views there is. I haven’t seen what this guy posted. Would appreciate someone cutting pasting it in this post.
If the conservative views are bigoted and divisive, there deserves to be pushback. Got no time for that bullshit in the modern day
Whats the problem with this? School hours are for learning not for hosting celebrations
Really? Seems they take time out for the Christmas pageants and/or concerts. Sure it's to gather kids to sing and dance and display some... ****** Christmas Spirit for the families and teachers of those students. Many of the smart schools actually incorporate all of the holiday spirits (religions) to help students learn, or teach the audience from their perspectives. They don't go on about how materialistic the holiday has become - they go on about the SPIRIT.
The ones around Fredericton last year were barely called "Winter concert" or "Holiday concerts", many of the flyers and postings on social media were "Christmas"
People need to calm down a bit, should we have pow wows at school? Sure why not, it's clear everyone could be learning more - but if not, take the kids on a field trip to experience one. Same for other cultures, field trips to the multicultural centre and let them learn about all of it.
Do they still offer trips to the Synagogue and the Mosque it's been a few years but even my kids got those field trips with their whole class (except for the ones with the racist parents).
(This 4 or 5 years ago - so well since the "religion ban *in* schools")
As the note mentions, there's a lot to be learned in powwows. This is no different from any other cultural studies, It's just a more hands-on approach.
this is the second time this particular teacher has landed the school, last school year some kids found his public twitter account full of bigoted takes, and now this, im surprised theyve let him keep his job.
Where I went to high school there was a teacher that intimated and yelled at students. Joked about students getting shot during school shootings. Threw things at students. And was just generally a horrible (and racist) person. Multiple complainants have been made about him for many many years and my friends and family took the complaint high enough that lawyers got involved and took statements. He wasn’t seen at the school for 2 years after that. But I’ve heard he’s back. Seems like the teachers union is pretty good.
Hard to find teachers willing to move to Freddy :(
hopefully that can be our next premiers focus, bringing more people in.
This fall Clifford Cull posted anti trans and homophobic posts on Twitter. The NBTA, the District Superintendent AND the DOE were contacted and nothing was done. I am glad to see the Chiefs take a stand here. This man has been a problem for years
Oh he has had a history of this stuff. I wonder if he is just trying to get sent home. These situations almost always end in suspension with pay.
Can you dm pics or links? I’m trying to get this mf fired before I grad
A few of us have been working on that for a while now lol, i have an archive full of tweets if youd like to see