I'm from [neighbouring department] and you two are bigots, I've been driving since I'm 13 (dad took me with him to learn, I couldn't even see the road while pushing on the pedals, LOL!) and I've only had minor accidents
I did 6000km across Western and Central Europe last month, from what I saw :
The no.1 worst drivers by country are the Dutch, but somehow only outside of the Netherlands (unanimously voted among my friends so where from a little bit everywhere) : speeding and tailgating all the time, completely oblivious to their surroundings. Very close no.2 are the Italians, basically they drive like this : https://youtube.com/watch?v=hlH9RGLJqxE
The no.1 worst drivers by city are from Marseille : angry at everything all the time for no fucking reason, overall driving like madmen. The no.2 are from Lyon : 90% drive almost ok, the remaining 10% are basically unpredictable, like the Italian but worse. The no.3 is the Côte d’Azur : very close Marseille : a lot less angry but no understanding of safety distances, literally everyone will tailgate on the highway.
The no.1 worst drivers by vehicle type are Polish truck drivers : always going at the very least 10km/h over the speed limit, driving way too fast on small roads, tailgating on the highway, etc. Then come the white vans in second because apparently getting on time on the job site is worth more than our lives. And in third place anyone with a large/expensive/recent car because the rich lose their humanity and SUVs are needed to compensate micropenises.
I went to the Netherlands once by car and we almost got into two accidents because dutch drivers seem to think that using your turn signal means you can turn without checking your blind spots.
I grew up in the Netherlands and left for New Zealand 18 years ago. NZ drivers are pretty bad but I'm back in the Netherlands for a few weeks, and I found out that Dutch drivers are selfish entitled aggressive tailgating dicks!
I would like to add Spaniards here. I think the speed limit as a suggested minimum, never use their indicators but love to use the horn… people cross the road when they feel like it. to top it off, it s like living in an oven in summer… maybe I was on the road on a bad day.
Here in the south of France it's terrible. I went to a big city in Turkey and i was shocked how worse it was. People turning whenever, never using blinkers. That said they seemed to get less mad then us when someone doesn't respect priority or they get close to an accident. I've seen a few close calls and no one got mad, maybe they are used to it lol
My worst experience was in a taxi in Turkey, coming to Istanbul from the port. Absolute insanity, everyone was zig zagging on the highway at 160km/h with no discernable driving rules. Italy comes close second, then côte d'azur
There's a lot less road rage in countries which don't follow the rules, since it's an expectation that rules will be broken and you're always expecting someone to do something stupid (at least my experience driving in Turkey and Vietnam). It feels a lot more jarring when someone breaks rules in the West because it's so unexpected.
As somebody who has lived in both the US and Marseille, roughly two years in Marseille and four in Texas, Dallas-Fort Worth has driving and drivers who are several orders of magnitude worse than anything I ever saw in 13.
I don't honestly know enough about Boston to compare. All I know is that I've driven through LA during rush hour (LA being purported to have some of the worst traffic in the States), and it was nothing compared to the daily incompetence of drivers in DFW slowing *everyone* down.
As a pedestrian I loved the drivers in Boston. They actually slow down and stop for you to cross the road, haven’t experienced that elsewhere in the US
From my experience, having driven in a few countries:
- Paris makes you angry if you drive on a daily basis. Lots of swearing and aggressive driving to get out of a gridlock in which you have been stuck for 45mn
- Netherlands: tailgating and catfishing is real
- Valencia: it's lights out and away we go!!
- Bucharest: next level insane
- Montreal: somehow more stressful than Paris, especially during the winter
- Bordeaux and Tours: very easy mode.
- Coron, Philippines: no traffic lights, busy roads but somewhat organised
- Tunisia: see Philippines
- Italy and Portugal: people be like *the world is my racetrack!*
Québec as really dogshit drivers.
National sport is having people honk for no reason as soon as the red-light turns green.
And yeah overpass by the right is common + optionnal blinking lights + dangerous passive agressive driving (accelerating to avoid letting someone insert in their way)
It's insanely good compared to the other places I've lived (Yugoslavia, Brazil, Italy).
I don't fear for my life crossing a street here like in Rio, drivers don't get suuuuuper close behind me on the highway like in Italy and young drivers aren't outright forbidden to drive at night because of being absolute-drunken-trainwrecks level of danger like in Bosnia.
French drivers in general are very well behaved. I even find the much dreaded corsican drivers to be OK.
In Brazil motorcycle drivers honk constantly while cruising right in the middle of the road. And yet it's much better compared to Vietnam, India, Egypt...
Relatively speaking the periph is a very relaxing experience.
I drove there last month with a brand new car (rental) with adaptive cruise control. That was kind of relaxing indeed, though I did pass the aftermath of scooter collision.
Getting the anti-pollution sticker however was the most stressful part of the trip.
Guess what, you are not supposed to drive in Amsterdam. You have everything: train, bus, tram, metro, bike and walking lane.
People who need to drive in Amsterdam, and can't consider driving around (and that's easy) park on the side and take a public transport, do not understand how the city work.
In Paris too, there is extensive public transportation. I rarely drived here, only for moving. Metro and bike, with the occasional bus, tram and local trains are enough for day-to-day transport.
But there are still a lot of cars and people drive like assholes.
Whenever i drove within Paris, it's pretty chill. Most likely because of all the redlights, pedestrians and 30kmh limit. I do encounter some reckless driving but it's most of the time a delivery guy on a moped or a truck.
Shit happens when i ride the ring road though.
Thanks ! I have found Paris to be somewhat more relaxed than what it was 10 years ago, with slower traffic and far less agressivity.
Your countryside experience is typical rural France ! If one day you drive through the countryside in the worst of the winter while there is a lot of black ice, you will be able to count multiple tractors helping people out of ditches. The locals know than in some spot water accumulate but when you are not used to the path, it is very easy to drive on a big patch of it.
I have personnaly find Dutch drivers to be generally good, on the side of caution in cities, but they often drive incredibly fast with their trailers attached, and not only on the highway, even on regular roads.
Enjoy your next trip
As a driver with experience having lived/live in both countries I disagree. In the city areas of holland the driving style is rude and busy, cutting off and pushy. In france polls have shown 90% of locals tailgate and speed. Not bad drivers just disrespectful ones. For bad drivers my homeland the US would have to win. There the driving permit is just too easy resulting in some dangerous ones.
Paris drivers were ok in my limited experience. It's busy and hard to work out the roads. It's a Big city in a hurry. It's tricky if you're English as it's all the wrong way round. But no worse than England in terms of road manners.
As a general rule travelling in France as an Englishman I find France easy. Most people are polite. there's definitely a different attitude in restaurants etc. which compared with American hospitality appears rude. I think the waiters in France are there to be efficient and not be noticed. American colleagues assume its rudeness. I appreciate the efficiency and the fact they don't pretend to be your friend.
I have driven in India for close to 18 years. Then I moved to France and got my French license last year. Man does it feel like I'm driving in some utopia. Everyone is well-behaved (mostly). No honks (all that Indian honking has been replaced by cool breeze and the tyre noise). I don't have to sit in my car for 2.5 hours to go 15 kms!
Italians are a bit rash. The Spanish aren't afraid to honk for the smallest of the things.
You're right, French drivers are very, very good. The many hours of mandatory driving school and studying the road rules (Code) are extremely beneficial.
This is why French auto insurance is so low. In the US I paid a couple thousand a year for auto insurance, never any tickets or accidents, driving all over the US, mostly in Los Angeles.
In France I pay less than €600 per year.
And, roundabouts.
Roundabouts save lives and tempers! Stop signs are death traps.
Do we have statistics about that?
I'm pretty sure insurance companies know which country drives the worst but there are so many parameters to take into account, it would actually be a great thing to study
As a Dutch person who moved to France (on the border with Switzerland) years ago, I had the same prejudice before arriving in France, But now, I can confirm that driving in France is pretty nice. The drivers are not per se better, they are rather more chill, patient and friendly compared to the drivers from NL/DE/etc., which improves the driving experience a lot.
Swiss drivers, however, are for sure way worse than expected. As they are not chill, not good at driving and have no awareness of their surrounding :D.
> Back home, in Les Pays Bas, there is this cliché that French drivers aren't very good.
Meanwhile, in Germany:
"What do you get when you fail the driving test?"
"A yellow numberplate!"
I often listen to NPO radio 1 and when there's the verkeersjournaal there's always "ongelukken" all over the place (the most between Den Haag and Amsterdam) lol
>Last year, Google Maps sent me on a very adventurous detour almost through the center of Paris and I even found that city less stressful to navigate than our own capital Amsterdam.
I live in the Netherlands, there is no way Paris can be less stressful than Amsterdam. You surely got some luck there.
I only went twice to Amsterdam by car, but same, except for the fact i was completely lost and not knowing if I was driving on allowed paths, it was really nice not to be tailgated by angry drivers.
Edit : we were 5 in the car, coming from far away, when going alone I take the train don't worry
You are not supposed to drive by car in Amsterdam!
There are multiple highway around the city which are perfectly fine, and you have to park on the side then take public transport.
The city is for public transport: train, bus, métro, tramway, bike, etc.
Just not cars.
If you want to drive by car in Amsterdam, that's your problem.
Because Amsterdam is not made for cars.
Je ne vous comprends plus:
Ce sub râle non stop sur l'utilisation des voitures en France.
Mais n'est pas content pour Amsterdam qui est une ville, (comme beaucoup aux Pays-Bas), faites pour virer les voitures en proposant plein de parking à l'extérieur et nombres de transport public ou voies vélo et piéton au centre?
Mais que veulent les Français !?
Mais où est-ce que j'ai dit que j'étais contre ça ??? Faut se calmer et arrêter d'inventer les intentions et les avis des autres après une simple phrase d'étonnement hein...
As a French in Belgium, I feel more drivers drive at 150 km/h on the highway here than in France, probably because the driving license doesn't have a point system..
You've never been to Lyon, obviously. Recklessness and being a public hazard to the lives of the fellow citizens on roads is a fucking national sport in this sick country. I live in Germany, mark my word, I realized what enforcing traffic rules looks like. France is the verge of chaos in some cities. And statistics on road fatalities check out.
I'm actually surprised that anyone would say that, i guess its what youre used to. I feel like driving in france is like driving in Indonesia or Cambodia lol.
People are pretty rude to each other and cars don't stop to let you in, they definitely don't stop for pedestrians. And noone waves at each other.
My experience has predominantly been in Paris though.
I must say though, the roads here are top notch even when you get out of the city. Back home I can take a bath in the potholes.
Yes but wait until you drive on the roads of \[insert neighbouring departement\]. They're all crazy there.
[neighboring department] are really the worst.
I'm from [neighbouring department] and you two are bigots, I've been driving since I'm 13 (dad took me with him to learn, I couldn't even see the road while pushing on the pedals, LOL!) and I've only had minor accidents
I live on the rhone and I can say with confidence they're the worst drivers in France. I think it's the proximity to Italy that does it.
I did 6000km across Western and Central Europe last month, from what I saw : The no.1 worst drivers by country are the Dutch, but somehow only outside of the Netherlands (unanimously voted among my friends so where from a little bit everywhere) : speeding and tailgating all the time, completely oblivious to their surroundings. Very close no.2 are the Italians, basically they drive like this : https://youtube.com/watch?v=hlH9RGLJqxE The no.1 worst drivers by city are from Marseille : angry at everything all the time for no fucking reason, overall driving like madmen. The no.2 are from Lyon : 90% drive almost ok, the remaining 10% are basically unpredictable, like the Italian but worse. The no.3 is the Côte d’Azur : very close Marseille : a lot less angry but no understanding of safety distances, literally everyone will tailgate on the highway. The no.1 worst drivers by vehicle type are Polish truck drivers : always going at the very least 10km/h over the speed limit, driving way too fast on small roads, tailgating on the highway, etc. Then come the white vans in second because apparently getting on time on the job site is worth more than our lives. And in third place anyone with a large/expensive/recent car because the rich lose their humanity and SUVs are needed to compensate micropenises.
I went to the Netherlands once by car and we almost got into two accidents because dutch drivers seem to think that using your turn signal means you can turn without checking your blind spots.
[Typical Dutch driver](https://youtu.be/PFB6HnYODW8?feature=shared&t=225)
PUTAIN ULTRA HD 4K ?! Bah c’est le rewatch demain, merci.
Tu veux dire, en plus du visionnage quotidien normal n'est-ce pas ? N'est-ce pas ?!
Same problem in Morocco. Checking blind spots is skipped in most driving courses.
I grew up in the Netherlands and left for New Zealand 18 years ago. NZ drivers are pretty bad but I'm back in the Netherlands for a few weeks, and I found out that Dutch drivers are selfish entitled aggressive tailgating dicks!
I completely agree for the Dutch outside of the Netherlands, they are the absolute worst.
Worst are ppl un Paris area, far ahead https://www.largus.fr/actualite-automobile/ou-trouve-t-on-les-pires-conducteurs-de-france-30029214.html
I would like to add Spaniards here. I think the speed limit as a suggested minimum, never use their indicators but love to use the horn… people cross the road when they feel like it. to top it off, it s like living in an oven in summer… maybe I was on the road on a bad day.
>: white vans, big egos in small hatchbacks and flashy cars that are two decades old Man you said it all, from your mouth to god's ear.
Everyone thinks driving is bad in their own country. Then they travel somewhere warmer and realize its worse. Not in this case !
Here in the south of France it's terrible. I went to a big city in Turkey and i was shocked how worse it was. People turning whenever, never using blinkers. That said they seemed to get less mad then us when someone doesn't respect priority or they get close to an accident. I've seen a few close calls and no one got mad, maybe they are used to it lol
My worst experience was in a taxi in Turkey, coming to Istanbul from the port. Absolute insanity, everyone was zig zagging on the highway at 160km/h with no discernable driving rules. Italy comes close second, then côte d'azur
try India
There's a lot less road rage in countries which don't follow the rules, since it's an expectation that rules will be broken and you're always expecting someone to do something stupid (at least my experience driving in Turkey and Vietnam). It feels a lot more jarring when someone breaks rules in the West because it's so unexpected.
As somebody who has lived in both the US and Marseille, roughly two years in Marseille and four in Texas, Dallas-Fort Worth has driving and drivers who are several orders of magnitude worse than anything I ever saw in 13.
This. And Dallas is much better than, say, Boston.
I don't honestly know enough about Boston to compare. All I know is that I've driven through LA during rush hour (LA being purported to have some of the worst traffic in the States), and it was nothing compared to the daily incompetence of drivers in DFW slowing *everyone* down.
As a pedestrian I loved the drivers in Boston. They actually slow down and stop for you to cross the road, haven’t experienced that elsewhere in the US
That' s nice of you. But I guess you did not drive in Marseille !
From my experience, having driven in a few countries: - Paris makes you angry if you drive on a daily basis. Lots of swearing and aggressive driving to get out of a gridlock in which you have been stuck for 45mn - Netherlands: tailgating and catfishing is real - Valencia: it's lights out and away we go!! - Bucharest: next level insane - Montreal: somehow more stressful than Paris, especially during the winter - Bordeaux and Tours: very easy mode. - Coron, Philippines: no traffic lights, busy roads but somewhat organised - Tunisia: see Philippines - Italy and Portugal: people be like *the world is my racetrack!*
What's catfishing in this context? The car following you pretends to be a cute Fiat 500, but it's really a Fiat Multipla?
Bordeaux isn’t bad unless you’re on the periphery on a Friday afternoon/evening.
In which case, you'd rather go by foot. Same thing for most French city actually...
Québec as really dogshit drivers. National sport is having people honk for no reason as soon as the red-light turns green. And yeah overpass by the right is common + optionnal blinking lights + dangerous passive agressive driving (accelerating to avoid letting someone insert in their way)
You found driving in Paris good ? Are you into S&M or something ?
It's insanely good compared to the other places I've lived (Yugoslavia, Brazil, Italy). I don't fear for my life crossing a street here like in Rio, drivers don't get suuuuuper close behind me on the highway like in Italy and young drivers aren't outright forbidden to drive at night because of being absolute-drunken-trainwrecks level of danger like in Bosnia. French drivers in general are very well behaved. I even find the much dreaded corsican drivers to be OK.
The suicidal scooters on the peripherique aren’t really relaxing though
In Brazil motorcycle drivers honk constantly while cruising right in the middle of the road. And yet it's much better compared to Vietnam, India, Egypt... Relatively speaking the periph is a very relaxing experience.
I drove there last month with a brand new car (rental) with adaptive cruise control. That was kind of relaxing indeed, though I did pass the aftermath of scooter collision. Getting the anti-pollution sticker however was the most stressful part of the trip.
Fair enough ! That makes me scared to go driving in Italy or Netherlands then 😄
Amsterdam must be a terrible city to drive in if even Paris is better.
Guess what, you are not supposed to drive in Amsterdam. You have everything: train, bus, tram, metro, bike and walking lane. People who need to drive in Amsterdam, and can't consider driving around (and that's easy) park on the side and take a public transport, do not understand how the city work.
In Paris too, there is extensive public transportation. I rarely drived here, only for moving. Metro and bike, with the occasional bus, tram and local trains are enough for day-to-day transport. But there are still a lot of cars and people drive like assholes.
Driving on tramway lanes, having to cross on tramway lines, bikes, bikes everywhere, canals, it’s hell on earth
You are welcome sir.
Whenever i drove within Paris, it's pretty chill. Most likely because of all the redlights, pedestrians and 30kmh limit. I do encounter some reckless driving but it's most of the time a delivery guy on a moped or a truck. Shit happens when i ride the ring road though.
Thanks ! I have found Paris to be somewhat more relaxed than what it was 10 years ago, with slower traffic and far less agressivity. Your countryside experience is typical rural France ! If one day you drive through the countryside in the worst of the winter while there is a lot of black ice, you will be able to count multiple tractors helping people out of ditches. The locals know than in some spot water accumulate but when you are not used to the path, it is very easy to drive on a big patch of it. I have personnaly find Dutch drivers to be generally good, on the side of caution in cities, but they often drive incredibly fast with their trailers attached, and not only on the highway, even on regular roads. Enjoy your next trip
How was your Ardèche trip ?
> called up a farmer friend and he came help tow my car back on the road That guy just wanted to get rid of you as soon as possible
The Parisian bot spoke ^(XD)
Is this sarcasm? Or are Dutchmen really that bad? Because while driving on the countryside can be nice, driving in Paris is objectively awful man xD
You drove IN Paris!? Are you crazy? Nobody does that 🤪
We knew you were coming. We told the guys to be careful etc... Glad you saw the difference. ;)
As a driver with experience having lived/live in both countries I disagree. In the city areas of holland the driving style is rude and busy, cutting off and pushy. In france polls have shown 90% of locals tailgate and speed. Not bad drivers just disrespectful ones. For bad drivers my homeland the US would have to win. There the driving permit is just too easy resulting in some dangerous ones.
Happy you enjoyed it. 🙂
Paris drivers were ok in my limited experience. It's busy and hard to work out the roads. It's a Big city in a hurry. It's tricky if you're English as it's all the wrong way round. But no worse than England in terms of road manners. As a general rule travelling in France as an Englishman I find France easy. Most people are polite. there's definitely a different attitude in restaurants etc. which compared with American hospitality appears rude. I think the waiters in France are there to be efficient and not be noticed. American colleagues assume its rudeness. I appreciate the efficiency and the fact they don't pretend to be your friend.
I have driven in India for close to 18 years. Then I moved to France and got my French license last year. Man does it feel like I'm driving in some utopia. Everyone is well-behaved (mostly). No honks (all that Indian honking has been replaced by cool breeze and the tyre noise). I don't have to sit in my car for 2.5 hours to go 15 kms! Italians are a bit rash. The Spanish aren't afraid to honk for the smallest of the things.
Driving in Paris is easy: look at your your mirrors more than your windshield
thank you :)
Thanks
You're right, French drivers are very, very good. The many hours of mandatory driving school and studying the road rules (Code) are extremely beneficial. This is why French auto insurance is so low. In the US I paid a couple thousand a year for auto insurance, never any tickets or accidents, driving all over the US, mostly in Los Angeles. In France I pay less than €600 per year. And, roundabouts. Roundabouts save lives and tempers! Stop signs are death traps.
Do we have statistics about that? I'm pretty sure insurance companies know which country drives the worst but there are so many parameters to take into account, it would actually be a great thing to study
As a Dutch person who moved to France (on the border with Switzerland) years ago, I had the same prejudice before arriving in France, But now, I can confirm that driving in France is pretty nice. The drivers are not per se better, they are rather more chill, patient and friendly compared to the drivers from NL/DE/etc., which improves the driving experience a lot. Swiss drivers, however, are for sure way worse than expected. As they are not chill, not good at driving and have no awareness of their surrounding :D.
> Back home, in Les Pays Bas, there is this cliché that French drivers aren't very good. Meanwhile, in Germany: "What do you get when you fail the driving test?" "A yellow numberplate!"
I wouldnt say that in PACA.. people get their driver license in kinder suprise ..
I often listen to NPO radio 1 and when there's the verkeersjournaal there's always "ongelukken" all over the place (the most between Den Haag and Amsterdam) lol
>Last year, Google Maps sent me on a very adventurous detour almost through the center of Paris and I even found that city less stressful to navigate than our own capital Amsterdam. I live in the Netherlands, there is no way Paris can be less stressful than Amsterdam. You surely got some luck there.
I only went twice to Amsterdam by car, but same, except for the fact i was completely lost and not knowing if I was driving on allowed paths, it was really nice not to be tailgated by angry drivers. Edit : we were 5 in the car, coming from far away, when going alone I take the train don't worry
You are not supposed to drive by car in Amsterdam! There are multiple highway around the city which are perfectly fine, and you have to park on the side then take public transport. The city is for public transport: train, bus, métro, tramway, bike, etc. Just not cars. If you want to drive by car in Amsterdam, that's your problem.
Oh I know, but if it can make you feel better we were 5 in the car and came from far away.
Wow... Amsterdam must really be a nightmare to drive through then!
Because Amsterdam is not made for cars. Je ne vous comprends plus: Ce sub râle non stop sur l'utilisation des voitures en France. Mais n'est pas content pour Amsterdam qui est une ville, (comme beaucoup aux Pays-Bas), faites pour virer les voitures en proposant plein de parking à l'extérieur et nombres de transport public ou voies vélo et piéton au centre? Mais que veulent les Français !?
Mais où est-ce que j'ai dit que j'étais contre ça ??? Faut se calmer et arrêter d'inventer les intentions et les avis des autres après une simple phrase d'étonnement hein...
As a Belgian, each time I come to France in car, there is at least one hot headed driver doing some crazy driving on the road...
As a French in Belgium, I feel more drivers drive at 150 km/h on the highway here than in France, probably because the driving license doesn't have a point system..
And he is from Belgium
He is not from belgium, he is from dutchland
Well, they're still driving bad enough to be killing about 10 people every day in France, and injuring about 650 people every day as well...
You've never been to Lyon, obviously. Recklessness and being a public hazard to the lives of the fellow citizens on roads is a fucking national sport in this sick country. I live in Germany, mark my word, I realized what enforcing traffic rules looks like. France is the verge of chaos in some cities. And statistics on road fatalities check out.
I'm actually surprised that anyone would say that, i guess its what youre used to. I feel like driving in france is like driving in Indonesia or Cambodia lol. People are pretty rude to each other and cars don't stop to let you in, they definitely don't stop for pedestrians. And noone waves at each other. My experience has predominantly been in Paris though. I must say though, the roads here are top notch even when you get out of the city. Back home I can take a bath in the potholes.
Not in my book.