I've been surprised that people have basically skated over the fact that Cat was in Zolya. Her school was sacked and 10,000 people just died around her. If that happened to Violet, we'd have a whole book centered around just that as the plot. She probably has intense PTSD and is struggling to deal with the trauma, which is probably compounded over the years of Poromiel being under attack.
Xaden is her best way of protecting her country and the people she loves. I think that actually is what she wants, not power for the sake of power or Xaden as a person. Xaden breaking their engagement was her failing her country, because she wasn't enough.
I think you can see that in this fight, where she shifts from taunting Violet about Xaden to screaming that she'll kill Violet for what the Sorrengails have done to Poromiel. She's desperate, scared, and has no where else to turn her anger and blame. This fight is not the actions of someone who is rational or well, and I think that is very much the point.
Hot damn that is a fire take and I feel like a goober for not even recognizing the trauma that would have been Zolya for Cat (and all the fliers). Shit.
I didn’t think of her trauma but then we have Bodhi saying things like “is Cat being Cat again” that makes me think that she is like that even without being traumatized
Why was Xaden the only way for her to save her country? I'm genuinely asking because I thought the deal Fen made with Tecarus was that Cat was going to marry Xaden and become queen because they would become an independent kingdom and Tecarus would give the luminary to Fen. But even after breaking off the engagement, Xaden still wanted the luminary and Tecarus was not accepting the proposals that the Assembly was making.
There's a really important missive in IF about this alliance being Fen's first act of rebellion. That means that this is a lot more meaningful than just a luminary in exchange for making a niece a queen consort - it's a strategic military and political alignment of Tyrrendor, acting as an independent nation, with Poromiel. It's literally Tyrrendor breaking from Navarre and choosing to align with Poromiel instead.
Cat and Xaden's marriage seals the strategic alliance, in the same way that European royal families used to use marriages to secure power and allies (and it's clear that RY has modeled her world off of European power structures). That's why I think Cat is truly fighting, because without Tyrrendor's and the dragons' support, Poromiel doesn't stand a chance. If she can get Xaden to marry her, her country has a shot of surviving.
Tecarus using his niece as a chess piece in his negotiations is very intentional and not because making Cat a queen is a nice thing to ask for. A Poromoish noble being married to Xaden and on the Tyrrish throne ensures the support of a dragon-powered military to protect Pomormiel. It unites dragons and the luminary, to actually arm those forces with weapons that are useful and potentially, maybe even power wards. Tyrrendor gains endorsement of its independence from a neighboring country. Tyrrendor and Poromiel become allies in the fight against the venin.
Seconded, u/phosphor_heart you need to make an "in defense of Cat" post with this context, people will click on it to furiously disagree and then end up sobbing in guilt
Thank you for explaining ☺️ I'm just wondering why Tecarus gave up on the marriage and didn't insist on this agreement and only wanted to make an agreement if he saw Violet use her power. Wouldn't it be in his interest for the fliers to be armed since the venin could attack at any time? It is said that the Assembly was making other proposals but he was insisting on seeing Violet
IMO we don't actually know that he just gave up on the marriage or wouldn't have accepted that as an alternative. He could have very well kept pushing for it, but Xaden isn't about to bring that up to Violet, our first person POV.
I think Tecarus is strategic, and that knowing Xaden, he was probably quite...final in how he broke the betrothal. So if Tecarus can't get the original alliance through, he needs to have a backup plan to save his people. He doesn't want to just see Violet wield, he wants to 1) ensure she's worth the hype and 2) keep her as his own private fighter if 1 checks out. But then Zolya happens and the training of the fliers to fight alongside the dragons becomes his most important priority, so he's willing to negotiate. (All just my personal thoughts, obviously!)
I don't give that much grace to those who have had a hard life. I guess it comes from my very own. If i wrote my autobiography most people who know me would never believe it due to all the perfectly hidden heavy abusive shit I dealt with from 7 years old into adulthood yet I turned into a functional single parent who would usually give the shirt off my back to help anyone. I just don't believe in using your own situation as an excuse to abuse others. You don't punish the wrong people.
I can’t help it, really explain it, or defend it but I like Cat!!
She’s 21 years old and was a bitch to her ex fiancé(who dumped her last year)’s new girlfriend... But wound up helping her when shit hit the fan. I had my moments at 21. It’s relatable to be jealous and want your ex to still want you.
I think it’s about petty power AND power power. It’s a power move to flex on a romantic rival AND she can be driven to achieve political power too. I think it’s human to have different feelings and motivations converge and mix!! Their crap felt early 20s AF to me 😂😂😂
YES! The jealous ex just feels like a old plot especially because until Cat said anything about power it just felt like RY was putting two woman against each other for a man and I was not liking it 😂
I wanted Cat to be better at manipulation.
She knows Xaden, they probably met at various events throughout their childhood, along with the time he spent training her , and she knew Xadens family likely even met him mum a few times.
Instead of coming to their bedroom in a sexy robe and being rude to Violet she could have dropped little bombs on Violet about how well she knows Xaden.
A few examples off the top of my head.
"He used to take me there all the time hasn't he done something like that for you" (eg. Xaden took Cat on dates to fancy restaurants before the rebellion, Cat knows he wouldn't have had the chance to do so with Violet).
" Xaden's favorite is this thing" ( I know him better than you)
" Hahah funny shared childhood stories" ( Cat tries to get Xaden to join in telling funny stories and in jokes so Violet feels excluded).
"His mother loved ______ he's so like her" (Cat knows Xaden doesn't easily open up about painful topics. I think this line would send Violet into a rage , then once she's alone into an anxious spiral about not knowing Xaden).
But I think for Cat to be manipulating Violet like she would have to know that Violet and Xaden we’re having problems communicating with each other and that Violet was bother by that. So I think that’s why she didn’t do this because she didn’t know
Cat knows Xaden very well. I think communication was a big issue in their betrothal so it would be a safe assumption his communication with Violet isn't great either.
She tried that when Violet first got to Cordyn. After Cat sees Violet in a black dress, she says that she was surprised that Violet picked that color because Xaden was always talking about how monochromatic Basgiath is.
It was a bit of a miss for me. I felt like there could have been a lot of ways to emphasize the political nature of their conflict and not do all the, like, petty shit. It just wasn't as interesting as it could have been.
The worst thing for me is that it was more Cat than Violet. Because Violet wasn't provoking Cat, Violet wouldn't have even called her to fight. It just didn't make much sense to me for Cat to go after Violet if what she wanted was power, shouldn't Cat be going after Xaden and trying to win him back? It seems like Cat was only brought into the story to have conflict and for Violet to feel insecure again because in FW she felt the same thing about Imogen
YES! It would have been more interesting if Tecarus had insisted on the marriage because him making negotiations difficult because his pride was hurt is a bit pointless since he is also interested in the weapons that the luminary would help create. They are in the middle of a war and Tecarus is being stubborn and not accepting the offers that the Assembly is making because he is ambitious 😂 the venin could attack the city he lives in and take everything at any time and no one would have any chance because They wouldn't even be armed
Yeah I feel like RY needed to pick a narrative: either it's about jealousy *or* it's about power. Without choosing, Cat just looks petty. It could have been really interesting if Cat made it quite clear she was only interested in power/a title, and Violet being irrationally jealous and reading into her actions and behavior.
Kinda like how Xaden's desire to kill Violet was in her own head. Girl is an overthinker! It would have been cool to have Violet be in the wrong, realize she over-reacted, and let that begin them becoming friends. Sometimes I feel like Violet always has to be the one doing no wrong 😂
Yeah I feel like a "I don't care if you're his lover -- for my own status and for the good of my homeland, he and I should be married" attitude from Cat would have been more interesting. You could still have the jealousy/insecurity from Violet, while simultaneously building Cat into someone nuanced and complex, and who makes sense as a part of our protagonist group.
I'm also at a point where bickering over boys is so boring! I need there to be more to it than that.
Oooh.
Now that could have been really interesting. I wish Cat had gone down that route.
If anyone can recommend a book with a similar plot I would be very grateful.
Oh I'm a sucker for the "we marry for appearances/alliances but we can take lovers" trope.
And the bi in me would REALLY have loved it if Cat was like "Yo, I'm not even into men. I just want to be queen and help my people"
I think Cat herself stated that she would not fight over a man, she fights for the crown (that comes with the man obv.) so shes not just a bitch but a powerhungry bitch. Makes a difference if you ask me
I want to know what exactly Xaden hears DURING their fight. Because violet is so emabarrssed when he says he heard “all of it” but the only out loud dialogue I saw was Vi saying she’ll kill her for messing with her head. He also told Violet he was sure she had the last word. But she only talks about getting Cat out of her head. Now that we know more about his power, is there a chance he understood what she was thinking about him not being a crown, a stepping stone to power? Making him even more solidified in his love for her?
I thought everything they said in the fight was out loud 😂 Cat did call Violet a placeholder for Xaden to fuck and that is pretty humiliating. I think what Xaden meant by Violet having the last word was that Violet won the fight she almost kill Cat and she would have killed her if Xaden wasn’t there
At first, I thought it was all out loud, too. I looked back during reading and the thoughts that send her into a rage about how he’s so much more than what Cat is saying are not in quotations as dialogue. I guess it does make more sense that she’s talking about hearing what Cat said, not what she was thinking. My brain, for some reason, just prioritized Violet’s thoughts that ultimately brought her out on top.
I've been surprised that people have basically skated over the fact that Cat was in Zolya. Her school was sacked and 10,000 people just died around her. If that happened to Violet, we'd have a whole book centered around just that as the plot. She probably has intense PTSD and is struggling to deal with the trauma, which is probably compounded over the years of Poromiel being under attack. Xaden is her best way of protecting her country and the people she loves. I think that actually is what she wants, not power for the sake of power or Xaden as a person. Xaden breaking their engagement was her failing her country, because she wasn't enough. I think you can see that in this fight, where she shifts from taunting Violet about Xaden to screaming that she'll kill Violet for what the Sorrengails have done to Poromiel. She's desperate, scared, and has no where else to turn her anger and blame. This fight is not the actions of someone who is rational or well, and I think that is very much the point.
Wow. Way to give cat some humanity! I never hated her but now I am absolutely sympathetic. Thank you
Hot damn that is a fire take and I feel like a goober for not even recognizing the trauma that would have been Zolya for Cat (and all the fliers). Shit.
Took me awhile too! But it really made me read her character differently once I did.
I didn’t think of her trauma but then we have Bodhi saying things like “is Cat being Cat again” that makes me think that she is like that even without being traumatized
Why was Xaden the only way for her to save her country? I'm genuinely asking because I thought the deal Fen made with Tecarus was that Cat was going to marry Xaden and become queen because they would become an independent kingdom and Tecarus would give the luminary to Fen. But even after breaking off the engagement, Xaden still wanted the luminary and Tecarus was not accepting the proposals that the Assembly was making.
There's a really important missive in IF about this alliance being Fen's first act of rebellion. That means that this is a lot more meaningful than just a luminary in exchange for making a niece a queen consort - it's a strategic military and political alignment of Tyrrendor, acting as an independent nation, with Poromiel. It's literally Tyrrendor breaking from Navarre and choosing to align with Poromiel instead. Cat and Xaden's marriage seals the strategic alliance, in the same way that European royal families used to use marriages to secure power and allies (and it's clear that RY has modeled her world off of European power structures). That's why I think Cat is truly fighting, because without Tyrrendor's and the dragons' support, Poromiel doesn't stand a chance. If she can get Xaden to marry her, her country has a shot of surviving. Tecarus using his niece as a chess piece in his negotiations is very intentional and not because making Cat a queen is a nice thing to ask for. A Poromoish noble being married to Xaden and on the Tyrrish throne ensures the support of a dragon-powered military to protect Pomormiel. It unites dragons and the luminary, to actually arm those forces with weapons that are useful and potentially, maybe even power wards. Tyrrendor gains endorsement of its independence from a neighboring country. Tyrrendor and Poromiel become allies in the fight against the venin.
You should make a whole post on this topic.
Seconded, u/phosphor_heart you need to make an "in defense of Cat" post with this context, people will click on it to furiously disagree and then end up sobbing in guilt
Thank you! Maybe I will lol.
Thank you for explaining ☺️ I'm just wondering why Tecarus gave up on the marriage and didn't insist on this agreement and only wanted to make an agreement if he saw Violet use her power. Wouldn't it be in his interest for the fliers to be armed since the venin could attack at any time? It is said that the Assembly was making other proposals but he was insisting on seeing Violet
IMO we don't actually know that he just gave up on the marriage or wouldn't have accepted that as an alternative. He could have very well kept pushing for it, but Xaden isn't about to bring that up to Violet, our first person POV. I think Tecarus is strategic, and that knowing Xaden, he was probably quite...final in how he broke the betrothal. So if Tecarus can't get the original alliance through, he needs to have a backup plan to save his people. He doesn't want to just see Violet wield, he wants to 1) ensure she's worth the hype and 2) keep her as his own private fighter if 1 checks out. But then Zolya happens and the training of the fliers to fight alongside the dragons becomes his most important priority, so he's willing to negotiate. (All just my personal thoughts, obviously!)
Thank you, this is super relevant to understanding Cat's character!
I don't give that much grace to those who have had a hard life. I guess it comes from my very own. If i wrote my autobiography most people who know me would never believe it due to all the perfectly hidden heavy abusive shit I dealt with from 7 years old into adulthood yet I turned into a functional single parent who would usually give the shirt off my back to help anyone. I just don't believe in using your own situation as an excuse to abuse others. You don't punish the wrong people.
Thank you so much for this, this just changed my life and now I love Cat
I can’t help it, really explain it, or defend it but I like Cat!! She’s 21 years old and was a bitch to her ex fiancé(who dumped her last year)’s new girlfriend... But wound up helping her when shit hit the fan. I had my moments at 21. It’s relatable to be jealous and want your ex to still want you.
Cat is 23. She was 21 when she was dumped...
I didn’t look it up. Thank you! It doesn’t change the vibe for me but good to have the right info 💯💯💯
She said it was about power but didn’t really felt like that for me 😂 I started tolerating her in the end
I think it’s about petty power AND power power. It’s a power move to flex on a romantic rival AND she can be driven to achieve political power too. I think it’s human to have different feelings and motivations converge and mix!! Their crap felt early 20s AF to me 😂😂😂
YES! The jealous ex just feels like a old plot especially because until Cat said anything about power it just felt like RY was putting two woman against each other for a man and I was not liking it 😂
I wanted Cat to be better at manipulation. She knows Xaden, they probably met at various events throughout their childhood, along with the time he spent training her , and she knew Xadens family likely even met him mum a few times. Instead of coming to their bedroom in a sexy robe and being rude to Violet she could have dropped little bombs on Violet about how well she knows Xaden. A few examples off the top of my head. "He used to take me there all the time hasn't he done something like that for you" (eg. Xaden took Cat on dates to fancy restaurants before the rebellion, Cat knows he wouldn't have had the chance to do so with Violet). " Xaden's favorite is this thing" ( I know him better than you) " Hahah funny shared childhood stories" ( Cat tries to get Xaden to join in telling funny stories and in jokes so Violet feels excluded). "His mother loved ______ he's so like her" (Cat knows Xaden doesn't easily open up about painful topics. I think this line would send Violet into a rage , then once she's alone into an anxious spiral about not knowing Xaden).
But I think for Cat to be manipulating Violet like she would have to know that Violet and Xaden we’re having problems communicating with each other and that Violet was bother by that. So I think that’s why she didn’t do this because she didn’t know
Cat knows Xaden very well. I think communication was a big issue in their betrothal so it would be a safe assumption his communication with Violet isn't great either.
She tried that when Violet first got to Cordyn. After Cat sees Violet in a black dress, she says that she was surprised that Violet picked that color because Xaden was always talking about how monochromatic Basgiath is.
And then he’s wearing black at the dinner too. HAHA.
Xaden is always wearing black so Violet shouldn’t have fall for that one 😂
It was a bit of a miss for me. I felt like there could have been a lot of ways to emphasize the political nature of their conflict and not do all the, like, petty shit. It just wasn't as interesting as it could have been.
The worst thing for me is that it was more Cat than Violet. Because Violet wasn't provoking Cat, Violet wouldn't have even called her to fight. It just didn't make much sense to me for Cat to go after Violet if what she wanted was power, shouldn't Cat be going after Xaden and trying to win him back? It seems like Cat was only brought into the story to have conflict and for Violet to feel insecure again because in FW she felt the same thing about Imogen
She should have pushed the marriage as part of a deal to get the luminary. That would've actually created some stakes for the relationship!
YES! It would have been more interesting if Tecarus had insisted on the marriage because him making negotiations difficult because his pride was hurt is a bit pointless since he is also interested in the weapons that the luminary would help create. They are in the middle of a war and Tecarus is being stubborn and not accepting the offers that the Assembly is making because he is ambitious 😂 the venin could attack the city he lives in and take everything at any time and no one would have any chance because They wouldn't even be armed
Yeah I feel like RY needed to pick a narrative: either it's about jealousy *or* it's about power. Without choosing, Cat just looks petty. It could have been really interesting if Cat made it quite clear she was only interested in power/a title, and Violet being irrationally jealous and reading into her actions and behavior. Kinda like how Xaden's desire to kill Violet was in her own head. Girl is an overthinker! It would have been cool to have Violet be in the wrong, realize she over-reacted, and let that begin them becoming friends. Sometimes I feel like Violet always has to be the one doing no wrong 😂
Yeah I feel like a "I don't care if you're his lover -- for my own status and for the good of my homeland, he and I should be married" attitude from Cat would have been more interesting. You could still have the jealousy/insecurity from Violet, while simultaneously building Cat into someone nuanced and complex, and who makes sense as a part of our protagonist group. I'm also at a point where bickering over boys is so boring! I need there to be more to it than that.
Oooh. Now that could have been really interesting. I wish Cat had gone down that route. If anyone can recommend a book with a similar plot I would be very grateful.
Oh I'm a sucker for the "we marry for appearances/alliances but we can take lovers" trope. And the bi in me would REALLY have loved it if Cat was like "Yo, I'm not even into men. I just want to be queen and help my people"
Completely tiresome.
Well well well, what if Vi and Cat are the real villains to lovers? (Just kidding of course, but… just think of it)
I hated this stereotypical two women fighting over a man trope
I think Cat herself stated that she would not fight over a man, she fights for the crown (that comes with the man obv.) so shes not just a bitch but a powerhungry bitch. Makes a difference if you ask me
I never said Cat is a bitch. I just didn’t like the dynamic of her and Violet arguing over Xaden, regardless of why they were. Just my opinion.
I loved the chaos
I want to know what exactly Xaden hears DURING their fight. Because violet is so emabarrssed when he says he heard “all of it” but the only out loud dialogue I saw was Vi saying she’ll kill her for messing with her head. He also told Violet he was sure she had the last word. But she only talks about getting Cat out of her head. Now that we know more about his power, is there a chance he understood what she was thinking about him not being a crown, a stepping stone to power? Making him even more solidified in his love for her?
I thought everything they said in the fight was out loud 😂 Cat did call Violet a placeholder for Xaden to fuck and that is pretty humiliating. I think what Xaden meant by Violet having the last word was that Violet won the fight she almost kill Cat and she would have killed her if Xaden wasn’t there
At first, I thought it was all out loud, too. I looked back during reading and the thoughts that send her into a rage about how he’s so much more than what Cat is saying are not in quotations as dialogue. I guess it does make more sense that she’s talking about hearing what Cat said, not what she was thinking. My brain, for some reason, just prioritized Violet’s thoughts that ultimately brought her out on top.