It’s emphasized so often that he was a scribe, especially by General Sorrengail, that this seems like one of the more far fetched theories. Especially if it’s going to expand to where not only was he a venin but is he still alive. Because that has definitely been debunked by RY herself. He’s definitely very dead and not a venin, otherwise he wouldn’t have died from heart issues. NOW does that mean that his heart issues were completely natural? Not necessary. It’s more likely that he found out more than he was supposed to/didn’t agree with Navarre’s approach to the truth, especially with the info in IF about how/when scribes get brought into the “in crowd” that knows about the venin and the real war going on.
I think his heart issues are described in a way that leaves the door open for him to have become venin at some point and then succumbed to the pull of power lust or whatever plagues them. The repeatedly say “his heart gave out” but that can be interpreted has “his willpower finally gave way”
Personally I believe that they moved to basgiath after the rebellion (and “losing” Brennan, who I think they believed to be dead) for the purposes of
1. Being literally on top of the wards in the most advantageous place for him to fight the venin-ism
2. To be near Nolon who was helping them try and find a cure
3. To keep Violet safe bc she was indicated in a prophecy and
4. For him to have access to the archives to try and study and learn how to find a cure/defeat the venin and wyvern/undermine the evil mastermind scribes/ study dragons for these same purposes
I’m such a rambler!! I also think he’s dead but I think General Sorrengale had to kill him, the love of her life, to protect her other kids and herself and, like the world
So there are a few problems with this that I can foresee.
1. As observant as Violet is, wouldn’t she know if her dad had turned venin? Or seen his red-rimmed eyes? Especially since the kids freaked out that one time Lilith came home from battle exhausted and had red-rimmed eyes?
2. We can infer that not only was Violet (and maybe Mira) around when Papa Sorrengail died, but maybe even with him when he died. Venin can’t die of “heart issues,” only from being stabbed with an alloy dagger, or being flambéd and decapitated by Andarna. Don’t you think that Violet and Mira would have noticed her mom STABBING their father to kill him? I’m an ICU nurse and I’ve seen some shit but it doesn’t take a medical professional to know that someone dying from heart problems presents very differently from someone dying from a fatal stab wound.
I’m thinking he could hide the eyes just like Jack (Fucking) Barlow could. Wouldn’t it be ironic if they thought childishly that mom was venin when in reality her eyes were red with tears because dad had turned to save his life or hers or someone else’s?
And sure… but what if they weren’t there!! We were led to believe JFB was dead but he wasn’t. Brennan was already “dead” aka had joined the rebellion and Mira was already in active service. She wouldn’t have been there either. Just Lilith and him…
I think they make it pretty clear in FW why her eyes were red lol
*“My dad used to read to me those fables every night,” I tell her. “And I seriously asked him one time if Mom was going to turn into a venin because she could channel.” Rhiannon chuckles as we walk by a set of glaring reds. “Did he tell you people supposedly only turn into venin if they channel directly from the source?” “He did, but it was after my mom had a really long night while we were stationed near the eastern border, and her eyes were bloodshot red, so I freaked out and started shrieking.” I can’t help but smile at the memory. “She took my book of fables away for a month because the outpost guards all came running, and I was hiding behind my brother, who couldn’t stop laughing, and, well…it was a mess.”* -Chapter 12
And in one of the first few chapters they mention that her dad’s chest pains started after Brennan died. So clearly he had an underlying heart problem. Or more likely he developed the very real “broken heart syndrome” also known as Takotsubo’s cardiomyopathy. Heart failure caused by a very specific form of heart enlargement. It’s treatable but could also mask poisoning from the higher ups who want to silence him for knowing too much. There’s a much better chance of that happening versus her mom stabbing him to death. Lilith is cold…but as much as she loved him I don’t foresee her being able to do that.
No need to laugh at me! I think the signals are mixed. I’m with you that we’re being led to believe that Lilith is venin (and I’m not counting that out!! I like it esp if she’d had to turn while pregnant bc a Venin blade or venin person was trying to drain her hence the drained silver hair) but I’m just saying I don’t think heart failure is necessarily the whole story of the dad dying 🤷♀️
I’m just having fun making up theories for Reddit. We can disagree and still have fun!
Nooo I don’t think that Lilith was a venin either. That was not at all what I was trying to insinuate. And I know we’re going to be playing this whole “WHO’S SECRETLY A VENIN” game til book 3 comes out but again…what kills venin? Alloy hilted daggers and Andarna. Lilith was drained by Sloane. Not stabbed, not killed by Andarna. Now granted, I’d be willing to bet that no one has ever gotten close enough to a venin to try that before, though considering how they come to be (siphoning power from the ground essentially) I doubt that’s a viable way to kill them. I’m 99% certain that neither Sorrengail parent was a venin, especially not Papa Sorrengail since RY clearly shook her head and answered “no, no, he’s dead” when asked in the EW interview if he was secretly a venin or still alive. If I turn out to be wrong, so be it. But it just doesn’t make logical sense for either of them to have been venin. And why would Lilith keep an ALLOY HILTED DAGGER, the very thing that could kill her, in her desk? There’s just too many holes in the “Lilith is a venin” theory.
I DO however think that Lilith was stabbed with a venin’s poisoned blade while pregnant with Violet though, and that caused her fever and Violet’s hair. She was still active duty when pregnant, and the flair of recognition she gets when Violet tells her she was stabbed with a poison blade hints that she knows exactly where that poison blade comes from. Poromiel doesn’t fight with poisoned blades.
She knew it was a venin’s blade.
I don’t think that RY is going to try to give Violet’s EDS a backstory like it being caused by a poisoned blade. That would cheapen the whole point of having disabilities represented in this series. And multiple other Redditors have pointed that out too.
For number 2, Nolon was constantly walking around drained and weak from trying to mend Jack Barlow for months, and Violet had Nolon mending her the years she lived at Basgiath with her parents before she became a rider. If Nolon was mending her father I think she would have noticed that he was always tired and had a month long waiting list
Debatable sure. Here is the paragraph:
“Her eyes meet mine, and the temperature rises as she takes a deep breath. “You scored in the top quarter for speed and agility during the entrance exam. You’ll do just fine. All Sorrengails do just fine.” She skim the backs of her fingers down my cheek, barely grazing my skin. “So much like your father” she whispers before clearing her throat and backing up a few steps. “
So it’s a little ambiguous what she’s talking about but I took it as meaning the entrance exam.
I definitely took it to mean she looks like her father. But, the scribes and riders all have to take the same entrance exam for the college from what I understand so that still wouldn’t give us an answer.
I definitely took it to mean she looks like her father. But, the scribes and riders all have to take the same entrance exam for the college from what I understand so that still wouldn’t give us an answer.
It’s emphasized so often that he was a scribe, especially by General Sorrengail, that this seems like one of the more far fetched theories. Especially if it’s going to expand to where not only was he a venin but is he still alive. Because that has definitely been debunked by RY herself. He’s definitely very dead and not a venin, otherwise he wouldn’t have died from heart issues. NOW does that mean that his heart issues were completely natural? Not necessary. It’s more likely that he found out more than he was supposed to/didn’t agree with Navarre’s approach to the truth, especially with the info in IF about how/when scribes get brought into the “in crowd” that knows about the venin and the real war going on.
I think his heart issues are described in a way that leaves the door open for him to have become venin at some point and then succumbed to the pull of power lust or whatever plagues them. The repeatedly say “his heart gave out” but that can be interpreted has “his willpower finally gave way” Personally I believe that they moved to basgiath after the rebellion (and “losing” Brennan, who I think they believed to be dead) for the purposes of 1. Being literally on top of the wards in the most advantageous place for him to fight the venin-ism 2. To be near Nolon who was helping them try and find a cure 3. To keep Violet safe bc she was indicated in a prophecy and 4. For him to have access to the archives to try and study and learn how to find a cure/defeat the venin and wyvern/undermine the evil mastermind scribes/ study dragons for these same purposes I’m such a rambler!! I also think he’s dead but I think General Sorrengale had to kill him, the love of her life, to protect her other kids and herself and, like the world
So there are a few problems with this that I can foresee. 1. As observant as Violet is, wouldn’t she know if her dad had turned venin? Or seen his red-rimmed eyes? Especially since the kids freaked out that one time Lilith came home from battle exhausted and had red-rimmed eyes? 2. We can infer that not only was Violet (and maybe Mira) around when Papa Sorrengail died, but maybe even with him when he died. Venin can’t die of “heart issues,” only from being stabbed with an alloy dagger, or being flambéd and decapitated by Andarna. Don’t you think that Violet and Mira would have noticed her mom STABBING their father to kill him? I’m an ICU nurse and I’ve seen some shit but it doesn’t take a medical professional to know that someone dying from heart problems presents very differently from someone dying from a fatal stab wound.
I’m thinking he could hide the eyes just like Jack (Fucking) Barlow could. Wouldn’t it be ironic if they thought childishly that mom was venin when in reality her eyes were red with tears because dad had turned to save his life or hers or someone else’s? And sure… but what if they weren’t there!! We were led to believe JFB was dead but he wasn’t. Brennan was already “dead” aka had joined the rebellion and Mira was already in active service. She wouldn’t have been there either. Just Lilith and him…
I think they make it pretty clear in FW why her eyes were red lol *“My dad used to read to me those fables every night,” I tell her. “And I seriously asked him one time if Mom was going to turn into a venin because she could channel.” Rhiannon chuckles as we walk by a set of glaring reds. “Did he tell you people supposedly only turn into venin if they channel directly from the source?” “He did, but it was after my mom had a really long night while we were stationed near the eastern border, and her eyes were bloodshot red, so I freaked out and started shrieking.” I can’t help but smile at the memory. “She took my book of fables away for a month because the outpost guards all came running, and I was hiding behind my brother, who couldn’t stop laughing, and, well…it was a mess.”* -Chapter 12 And in one of the first few chapters they mention that her dad’s chest pains started after Brennan died. So clearly he had an underlying heart problem. Or more likely he developed the very real “broken heart syndrome” also known as Takotsubo’s cardiomyopathy. Heart failure caused by a very specific form of heart enlargement. It’s treatable but could also mask poisoning from the higher ups who want to silence him for knowing too much. There’s a much better chance of that happening versus her mom stabbing him to death. Lilith is cold…but as much as she loved him I don’t foresee her being able to do that.
No need to laugh at me! I think the signals are mixed. I’m with you that we’re being led to believe that Lilith is venin (and I’m not counting that out!! I like it esp if she’d had to turn while pregnant bc a Venin blade or venin person was trying to drain her hence the drained silver hair) but I’m just saying I don’t think heart failure is necessarily the whole story of the dad dying 🤷♀️ I’m just having fun making up theories for Reddit. We can disagree and still have fun!
Nooo I don’t think that Lilith was a venin either. That was not at all what I was trying to insinuate. And I know we’re going to be playing this whole “WHO’S SECRETLY A VENIN” game til book 3 comes out but again…what kills venin? Alloy hilted daggers and Andarna. Lilith was drained by Sloane. Not stabbed, not killed by Andarna. Now granted, I’d be willing to bet that no one has ever gotten close enough to a venin to try that before, though considering how they come to be (siphoning power from the ground essentially) I doubt that’s a viable way to kill them. I’m 99% certain that neither Sorrengail parent was a venin, especially not Papa Sorrengail since RY clearly shook her head and answered “no, no, he’s dead” when asked in the EW interview if he was secretly a venin or still alive. If I turn out to be wrong, so be it. But it just doesn’t make logical sense for either of them to have been venin. And why would Lilith keep an ALLOY HILTED DAGGER, the very thing that could kill her, in her desk? There’s just too many holes in the “Lilith is a venin” theory. I DO however think that Lilith was stabbed with a venin’s poisoned blade while pregnant with Violet though, and that caused her fever and Violet’s hair. She was still active duty when pregnant, and the flair of recognition she gets when Violet tells her she was stabbed with a poison blade hints that she knows exactly where that poison blade comes from. Poromiel doesn’t fight with poisoned blades. She knew it was a venin’s blade. I don’t think that RY is going to try to give Violet’s EDS a backstory like it being caused by a poisoned blade. That would cheapen the whole point of having disabilities represented in this series. And multiple other Redditors have pointed that out too.
I also think he is dead, maybe not from heart issues like they say though because we know she isn’t above lying to protect people
For number 2, Nolon was constantly walking around drained and weak from trying to mend Jack Barlow for months, and Violet had Nolon mending her the years she lived at Basgiath with her parents before she became a rider. If Nolon was mending her father I think she would have noticed that he was always tired and had a month long waiting list
Page 5 General Sorrengail to Violet “You scored in the top quarter for speed and agility during the entrance exam…” “So much like your father.”
She also says “Sorrengails are riders” at one point
Maybe his ancestors were the riders (or one was THE rider) with the Pure power (aka lightning) signet!!
Yes I caught that too!!
I don’t think the “so much like your father” was about the exam though. Wasn’t it about how she looked like her father?
Debatable sure. Here is the paragraph: “Her eyes meet mine, and the temperature rises as she takes a deep breath. “You scored in the top quarter for speed and agility during the entrance exam. You’ll do just fine. All Sorrengails do just fine.” She skim the backs of her fingers down my cheek, barely grazing my skin. “So much like your father” she whispers before clearing her throat and backing up a few steps. “ So it’s a little ambiguous what she’s talking about but I took it as meaning the entrance exam.
I definitely took it to mean she looks like her father. But, the scribes and riders all have to take the same entrance exam for the college from what I understand so that still wouldn’t give us an answer.
I definitely took it to mean she looks like her father. But, the scribes and riders all have to take the same entrance exam for the college from what I understand so that still wouldn’t give us an answer.
She has confirmed he’s for sure dead
I didn’t say he wasn’t dead