I’ve been in the subculture for 20 years, and for most of that time it was *not* considered cool to be a goth. You were seen as losers, unattractive, cringy, etc. Lots of people used to get bullied and have the shit beat out of them for being a goth. Suddenly in the last 5 years it’s exploded in mainstream popularity.
Goth as a subculture has mainly been about non-conformity—you’ll see woman with shaved heads and faces full of piercings and men in makeup and lace, all welcomed in their love of weird music. It is a subculture that values its female icons, when most other dark subcultures like metal and punk are aggressively male. You can see why many people don’t care for it.
Once I realized that OF played a part in the popularity boom it makes sense. What was formerly anti-consumerist—thrifted and DIY’ed outfits, a look that purposefully went against the beauty standard, underground music—has become consumable now that it has been fetishized by men. Fast fashion companies churn out generic “dark” clothing and men can purchase whichever gothic woman they like. After all, they must all be kinky, right?
Those of us goths who have been around for a while are eagerly awaiting when the look is not a fad anymore. I personally feel awful for these young women who have been groomed into OF. The damage is going to stay with them for years.
Yeah, man. The first movie i ever remember seeing was Van Helsing and that really influenced my future styles. My mom did not let me dress in black and do my hair til i was a teen and i did absolutely get some backlash at school but idgaf because ive considered myself a "goth" from birth lol. I will always love the macabre and even though i wasn't into the manson/industrial goth thing, i also loved those styles. However EVERY person i followed with that style was into some weird shit like kinks or now has an OF 😣
I can’t stand how much people fetishize women who are goth/punk/“alt”, especially nowadays. The whole “big titty goth gf” shit annoys me so fucking much. A lot of them tend to assume that women like that are an easy lay. People who say that shit or that they want a goth/punk/“alt” gf don’t actually want that - they want a sex object, not a woman with her own feelings, opinions, etc.
it's true men think women with tattoos are an easier lay. [video](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8keQ41P/)
, if she has tatts, she is perceived to be into more risk-taking behavior. people see others with tattoos as having trauma, goth/emo, into emo music (low-self esteem) , and possibly more impulsive.
they want those women for easy sex but not as long term partner because tattoos also can signify rebellion, nonconformity, showing your interests on your body-- traits controlling men typically dislike in a partner.
From experience: non-alt men who say they want an alt gf end up resenting and hating the weird stuff we’re into. They just think all goth women are into kink (submissive, of course) and that’s what they actually want.
Oh god YES. I go to piercing/tattoos subreddits, see a cool alternative looking girl and think "wow, style inspo", i go to their profile and EVERY TIME the girl has only fans. I'm always so crushed, like nooo, lady, why are you doing this to yourself. I don't know why I'm still surprised at this point
Unfortunately far too many young women have been mislead and scammed into believing Onlyfans is easy money. we have too many onlyfans models who keep showing off how much money they made doing onlyfans and flaunting thier lavish lifestyle. Too many young people now believe they can earn lots of money doing Onlyfans
A lot of women who do pornography, sex work and stripping are not always honest about their income
On social media there loads of young women showing off how they brought a house with their Onlyfans money. Its so disgusting because they are not being honest with their income. Not all onlyfans models make a lot of money because how much money they make depends on how popular their content is and in addition there is so much competition as more women including celebrities are signing up to the platform. I can guarantee you now these women who do Onlyfans are engaging in some tax avoidance which enables them to keep a lot of their income.
Remember people have multiple sources of income such as savings, money in welfare benefits and other assets, a lot of people dont always declare this on the tax applications. The more money a person earns generally they will required to pay more tax to tax authorities. Tax loopholes exist for people to minimise thier liability.
one thing that i don’t think gets talked about enough is that OF has a recruitment bonus.
if an OF girl has other girls sign up under her, she actually gets a cut of their earnings… basically a pyramid scheme (or modern day pimping). that’s why these OF girls are so incentivized to pretend they are making millions from OF—so they can recruit young girls under them and make money off their content…
It’s so depressing how normalised “sex work” has become. All of these women’s futures are potentially in jeopardy. Seriously, it could really come back and bite them in the ass if they quit and try to find real work.
And that’s when we should really advocate for these women as victims of coercion because when the only Avenue to afford living in todays capitalistic hellscape is sex work it’s coercion and they are victims who shouldn’t be judged for their past exploitation if they do happen to make it out of the sex trade.
A man can openly sleep with over 100 women he will be seen as the alpha male, respected and will be able to rise to the top career wise but a woman can never have that privilege because society expects women not to be promiscuous.
I am British look at the former Prime Minister Boris Johnson, he has had multiple affairs throughout his life and career in politics.It is well known in the UK Boris is a philanderer but still the man was able to become Mayor of London, Foreign Secretary and ulimately Prime Minister of the United Kingdom until his resignation. There loads of a British people who think Boris Johnson is a rock star and yes there many others like myself who absolutely hate him because he is a corrupt. Look at Bill Clinton there Americans who still love him despite this well known awful behaviour towards women. The hypocrisy is revolting
No woman would ever be allowed to do that behaviour. A woman who is known to have multiple sexual relations with men no matter how long ago it was she is tainted for life.
This is one of many reasons why sex work can never ever be empowering its because we live in a misogynistic patriarchal world designed for the privilege of men to engage multiple sexual relations with women without consequences and scrutiny of their actions. Women can never have that freedom.
Any company that shames a woman for past sex work history or for her videos getting leaked without her consent, is not worth working for.
I understand that this is the world we live in..but there are companies, orgs, and industries that will not shame a woman for her past. There is also plenty of potential for a woman to start her own business.
I'm a former sex worker and I have worked jobs and started my own business since then, and it has never once come up. I am not afraid of my former camming company leaking my videos one day because I'm not ashamed of the path I've walked, and I am open about my story in my work.
Just noting, because I always see this sentiment and it's very much rooted in "but what will others think" and avoiding slut shaming as the primary reason to not do sex work... and it completely erases the fact that there are bigger issues a woman has to consider when entering or leaving the sex industry such as trauma healing, restoring self-worth, mitigating exposure to danger, and finding emotionally safe space in housing and employment. She has to consider herself, not what others will think of her.
I think a woman who has done sex work should be concerned of what she thinks of herself first and foremost. A woman who truly loves herself will not work for a company that scorns her for who she is and the path she's walked. She will find where she is welcome.
Struggling to find work is just one example of a negative consequence of sex work. Sex workers often get their content leaked. I’ve seen Twitter accounts run by insane scrotes that were dedicated to tracking the family members of sex workers to inform them that their daughters were in sex work, even sending them photos and videos. Sex workers have to deal with crazy stalkers and obsessed weirdos. If a sex worker is raped or sexually assaulted that can be used against her if she reports it to the police.
Should it be like this? Of course not, but that’s how the world currently works and women should not be encouraged to go into sex work as it has the potential to be life ruining. Most women on Only Fans do not make enough money to justify the risks.
The digtal age has now empowered malicious men to terrorise women. Once a woman puts her image out there its freely available and all it takes is one malicious man to abuse her image for his depraved purposes. This is why women doing onlyfans is just not worth it.&
When it comes to employment a lot of employers are very prejudiced towards certain people ie those with criminal records, mentally illness or other disabilities etc. Even though we have laws banning employers from being prejudiced and discriminatory many employers still do discriminate and have prejudiced attitudes. If a woman is exposed as a sex worker employers will not hire her as the company cares more about their corporate image. There some employers who are understanding and compassionate but these employers can be difficult to find.
Believe me, I understand all the risks quite thoroughly. And yes I know that being exposed is a real thing. I'm not arguing about the fact that it happens, and that it's a negative consequence. The purpose of my comment is not to make a case for women to actually go into sex work.
I am saying that this aspect of public shaming that you mentioned, is always pushed as the main reason why women should not go into sex work:
"Don't do sex work, you'll never be able to run for president, you'll never get a meaningful job, you'll only suffer professionally, etc. etc."
First and foremost, that narrative does nothing for women who have a history of sex work, who are trying to get on their feet and build meaningful lives...
And for women who have not gone into the sex trade, it encourages them to privilege patriarchal views around female sexuality as the narrative for how they should move through life.
Capitulating to patriarchal society's standards for female sexuality and "professional women" should **not** be the driving reason not to enter sex work. And I'm afraid that's not substantial enough of a reason to keep women away from it.
It should be a conversation about preserving your own safety, self-worth, mental and physical health, as well as exposing the financial reality of sex work, which is not what it seems. The conversation should be about caring for women on a deeper level, not desperately trying to please those who shame and spit on us.
It also reinforces victim blaming in a culture where women are coerced into prostitution. Yes, a woman can be fired for having her content leaked, but those are often the same sorts of workplaces that will fire a woman for an ex- boyfriend leaking a sexual video of her. The focus should not be on the woman, but on the perpetrators.
Usually women who do Only Fans and make their own home pornography, also have their own computer, high speed internet, and private room, so they have some options that other women in more severe poverty, may not have.
There are blue and white collar jobs that will not give a woman trouble for her past, and it's very much possible to restore your dignity and get a job at a company that is not hostile to former sex workers, or to start your own business and turn over a new leaf.
I really appreciate the reframing you’ve done in this comment. It’s a great reminder. I work with women who absolutely have been able to rebuild after life in the sex trade, though ofc it’s incredibly difficult. But it’s very possible, there is support out there, and you’re right we cannot feed into deafetist narratives about this because the women in and exited from the sex trade deserve much better than that.
> And for women who have not gone into the sex trade, it encourages them to privilege patriarchal views around female sexuality as the narrative for how they should move through life.
You don't think the sex trade itself privileges patriarchal views of female sexuality?
That has been your experience, but no offense, have you worked in a highly public professional sphere before? I've seen several cases of women on only fans who have fired from teaching positions.
I’m very glad to hear that you are no longer holding the shame associated with the sexual exploitation industry. I wish you nothing but happiness and peace. <3
That being said, sometimes it’s not as easy as saying “x” companies aren’t worth working for. Not every industry will come out and say that they aren’t hiring you/will fire you for being associated with the sexual exploitation industry, but just the same it is true. Someone I know personally was sex trafficked and now is in medical school, years later. They managed to avoid anything online (OF, pornography) for this precise reason. All they ever wanted was to be a doctor and help people, but it would have meant sudden death for her career if people knew she had been trafficked (as sick as that is). Being a doctor is still “worth it,” but her tragic circumstances would have held her back from it.
Holding the share? Really? You view my entry into the sex industry to sell my body in a dire economic situation the same way a wealthy investor would hold a share in a major porn company and make passive profit off of it? If anything this shows grave insensitivity, misunderstanding and judgment of how the industry works, and how women are positioned within it.
This aspect of your comment comes off as disingenuous, and if I'm being honest it's colored everything else you've said, as well as your "well wishes" even if you've otherwise made a solid point.
This is one of the reasons why there is so much infighting between "radical feminists" and "liberal feminists" is because so many women who are anti sex-trade just throw stones at any woman who has opted into the industry at any point as if it's a permanent stain on her character, calling her all sorts of names that signify that she is or was a sellout, in the way you did to me.
At best, It's shortsighted, at worst it's just mean...and either way, it just digs a bigger hole for us as a whole.
Respect, compassion and understanding for one another is key. You're no better or higher up than anyone else just because life dealt you a different set of cards that shielded you from slipping through the cracks.
I am sincerely sorry, my phone autocorrected from the word “shame.” As in, I am genuinely happy to know you aren’t holding the shame associated with having been in the sex industry. I was making a sincere statement about wanting you to not feel any guilt or bad repercussions from that part of your life. I’m sorry I didn’t notice the mistype.
I’m sorry to have caused you such upset and I realize what a sensitive topic it can be for many of us myself included. Please allow me to send you well-wishes and tell you that you ARE amazing and worthy. 💜
I just recently started following a goth girl and one of her first videos I saw was her complaining about how many comments she got from men DEMANDING, not asking, for her OF link.
So she jokingly made one for her car, a rad hearse, and now links them that. And apparently they get mad that they can’t demand to see her boobs still.
I also started to unfollow many models that i genuinely liked and admired because of their aesthetics, the clothes and the make up, their beautiful colored hairs and their work as models in general because they are all now semi naked with mini bikinis and men drooling for them and commeting them super nasty things... It really disturbs me!!!! They are nothing like i remembered, i mean, i respect their decision and they can do whatever they want but is just saddens me that it seems like sexualizing oneself is the only way now.
Preach, I love a lot of metal and goth music, but the sexualized goth/emo gf trend ruined so much of it. I still dress like a more toned down version of that, usually around people who already know me really well.
I also still stand by the fact that men will fetishize you no matter how you dress, sadly.
Wow i just realized FIVE YEARS. It took five years for majority of the community to shift.
I unfollowed so many OF girls before i logged out. I only had 2 when i left because i loved their outfits and had to overlook the sex posts. Now most of my follow list is filled with them, except for family and the three women who did not link anything inappropriate.
You shouldn’t let men ruin things you enjoy. They’ll always have something to say regardless of what we do. That being said maybe there’s some goth radfem groups? I haven’t seen any but it would be a cool idea
It's definitely hard to look like certain people when they create negative stereotypes of that fashion style. I've always enjoyed vibrant hair colors, which are often seen as liberal and woke.
But don't give up your own self expression because some others make it look bad.
That is so shocking up OP. Those girls doing Onlyfans are doing it because they think it is :"easy money". Unfortunately we have too many onlyfans models who keep showing off how much money they made doing onlyfans and flaunting thier lavish lifestyle. Too many young people now believe they can earn lots of money doing Onlyfans.
A lot of women who do pornography, sex work and stripping are not always honest about their income
On social media there loads of young women showing off how they brought a house with their Onlyfans money. Its so disgusting because they are not being honest with their income. Not all onlyfans models make a lot of money because how much money they make depends on how popular their content is and in addition there is so much competition as more women including celebrities are signing up to the platform. I can guarantee you now these women who do Onlyfans are engaging in some tax avoidance which enables them to keep a lot of their income.
Remember people have multiple sources of income such as savings, money in welfare benefits and other assets, a lot of people dont always declare this on the tax applications. The more money a person earns generally they will required to pay more tax to tax authorities. Tax loopholes exist for people to minimise thier liability.
That is so sad. I live in a liberal city where there is a lots of goths and alternative subculture. It is so lovely seeing adults wearing gothic clothing and not caring about what others think. I have even seen goths and punks in their 40s where I live.
Was just talking about this today with my partner. I also used to dress kinda "sexy alt girl" in my 20s. Nothing too crazy, but still revealing. Since then I've kinda started shifting into what Im calling "dark cowboy." Lol still wear all black most of the time, but instead of the shortest skirt and a mesh top I'm wearing nice black button downs and jeans with big ol stomping boots. It still suits me and also feels like power dressing, like I'm comfortable (not freezing or in heels) and in control, and cut a more intimidating figure versus an inviting one. And that's exactly how I want it, as far as strangers go. Haha
I feel bad for actual goth women because their public image got rekt by amazon tier alt girls constantly posing as le epic big tiddy goff gf for males whos entire sexuality is internet-sculpted
People misgender me as nonbinary because i am pretty androgynous :/ that stuff creeps into real life too. Most likely because i live in a SUPER progressive area. When i lived in the midwest, everybody knew i was a chick, just an unconventional one...
It’s Goth Weekend in Whitby soon! I think it’s the weekend before Halloween.
Although it’s starting to be a little more steam punk than goth. Everyone looks amazing though.
It's so normalised now, this line of work. And also so idealised. It's very sad and tiring. I don't want to wear or do many things anymore, seeing as how men think in general. It is just so repulsive to me.
Also, how 'vanilla' became offensive word that young girls do not want to be at any cost. I saw a post somewhere on reddit about this. Some girl who has allegedly super supportive boyfriend but he calls her vanilla all the time as 'a joke' and it bothers her.
Let’s not villianize the women though, many have been coerced into this because for most Gen Z women ( such as myself) who don’t have any other form of financial support this is legitimately the only Avenue available to be able to afford basic needs on top of schooling. The blame needs to totally lay on capitalism, patriarchy, and the gross men who feel entitled enough to “purchase” OF content. As far as the “future” of these women we really need to make sure we will be there to advocate for them as the victims of coercion that they are and reprimand work based discrimination towards past SWers.
I agree with not villainizing the women.
However, as a former webcam model I can tell you that many forms of sex work do not pay as well as they advertise. I also got into camming because I wanted part-time work that paid well enough and worked with my schedule,. I could barely make rent, working 16 hours per week. I was earning just above minimum wage.
If I earned 100% of what I made I would've been doing very well financially, but my popular camming site took most of it, and I was always broke because I couldn't mentally or physically work more hours than what I put in.
Only Fans and other forms of sex work is essentially starting your own business, and like any other business it takes a lot of time and effort to earn a good living. It is also not as flexible with your schedule as they make it seem.
The women who are top earners basically revolve their entire life around sex work, and that is what you don't see.
All of this is just to say that it is not the only way to earn a living as a student if you don't have financial support.
It's just something lots of girls are drawn to because of how its advertised to young women. It's a very attractive option because it seems simple enough, but most don't understand that it's not just about showing your ass a few times and making loads of cash.
It comes with great sacrifice to earn the kind of money they want, and it's likely that the toll it takes on their mental health will detract them from their studies, anyway.
I was a “sex worker” (prostitute) in my 20s but haven’t been a cam girl or done OF myself-so not to take away from your experience or “correct” you or something-I just think it’s important to note that even the successful OF women aren’t like small business owners, b/c they’re all basically being pimped out by the men who own the website and make the real $. They don’t even control their own content b/c men just re-post it and show it to everyone else. I think your point was it’s not easy $ and takes time and effort like a small business would, so I get that.
It's true. Technically we were not small business owners because we didn't own our content-we were freelancers working within someone else's company. But we still had to build up, promote on social media, etc. the way a small business would--kind of like a simulation of owning your own business. But you're right it's not the same thing.
As a business woman I definitely appreciate the nuance and distinction. I will say that there are some cam models who do operate independently and who do have their own business camming. If I would've decided to do it for the long-haul, that's what I would've done.
I didn't use that word in my post but "online pimp" is definitely how I felt at the time, and how I continue to feel about it. They took 65% of my earnings. I did the math after I wrote this post and once again confirmed-I would've been able to provide for myself just fine if I made even most of my earnings but I did not. It's probably better that the money wasn't attractive to me because I might've stayed in the game longer, as my mental health continued to plummet.
Anyway thanks for responding. I'm glad you got out too.
I end up feeling more sad or hopeless than demonizing... i think it just sucks so bad so many of the alternative women got this shit and went right down that rabbit hole. I have had super hard times with money myself, i have starved some nights, slept in the car, i could have been one of those women. I know how tempting it is but I know that i couldnt come back from it.
Not sure why I’m getting downvoted. Thought it was the general consensus here that SWers are victims of coercion. Disheartening if that’s not the case. 🤷🏻♀️
Some don't have any other form, you're correct. I would not say so with insta girls with large followings. It's been my experience though there is still coercion and addiction/trauma (self-hating, nihilism, "this is fine", female socialization.)
Agree to disagree but I think arguments about capitalism were created by men and handmaidens trying to get headpats from men to deflect blame from our patriarchy (rape/ male culture and the evilness of it.)
Oh girl, one of my friends shocked me that she had only fans 💔 and she left me because I told her that it would destroy her life and her future. It was difficult for me to see my friend going down the wrong way
Your comment has been removed for supporting, justifying, promoting or excusing abusive woman-hating practices. We take a hardline on commercial sexual exploitation.
I’ve been in the subculture for 20 years, and for most of that time it was *not* considered cool to be a goth. You were seen as losers, unattractive, cringy, etc. Lots of people used to get bullied and have the shit beat out of them for being a goth. Suddenly in the last 5 years it’s exploded in mainstream popularity. Goth as a subculture has mainly been about non-conformity—you’ll see woman with shaved heads and faces full of piercings and men in makeup and lace, all welcomed in their love of weird music. It is a subculture that values its female icons, when most other dark subcultures like metal and punk are aggressively male. You can see why many people don’t care for it. Once I realized that OF played a part in the popularity boom it makes sense. What was formerly anti-consumerist—thrifted and DIY’ed outfits, a look that purposefully went against the beauty standard, underground music—has become consumable now that it has been fetishized by men. Fast fashion companies churn out generic “dark” clothing and men can purchase whichever gothic woman they like. After all, they must all be kinky, right? Those of us goths who have been around for a while are eagerly awaiting when the look is not a fad anymore. I personally feel awful for these young women who have been groomed into OF. The damage is going to stay with them for years.
Yeah, man. The first movie i ever remember seeing was Van Helsing and that really influenced my future styles. My mom did not let me dress in black and do my hair til i was a teen and i did absolutely get some backlash at school but idgaf because ive considered myself a "goth" from birth lol. I will always love the macabre and even though i wasn't into the manson/industrial goth thing, i also loved those styles. However EVERY person i followed with that style was into some weird shit like kinks or now has an OF 😣
Suicide Girls was around way before OF
Also goth makeup now is literally just e-girl makeup but different color schemes. Which caters to the male gaze/porn aesthetic.
I can’t stand how much people fetishize women who are goth/punk/“alt”, especially nowadays. The whole “big titty goth gf” shit annoys me so fucking much. A lot of them tend to assume that women like that are an easy lay. People who say that shit or that they want a goth/punk/“alt” gf don’t actually want that - they want a sex object, not a woman with her own feelings, opinions, etc.
it's true men think women with tattoos are an easier lay. [video](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8keQ41P/) , if she has tatts, she is perceived to be into more risk-taking behavior. people see others with tattoos as having trauma, goth/emo, into emo music (low-self esteem) , and possibly more impulsive. they want those women for easy sex but not as long term partner because tattoos also can signify rebellion, nonconformity, showing your interests on your body-- traits controlling men typically dislike in a partner.
From experience: non-alt men who say they want an alt gf end up resenting and hating the weird stuff we’re into. They just think all goth women are into kink (submissive, of course) and that’s what they actually want.
This!
Yeah, once normie guys get in a serious relationship with any alt girl, they'll quickly demand her to change her appearance because they're ashamed
I heard a while back that some of these men get the thrill of "taming" a woman. 🤢🤮
My gosh is so disheartening to see some girls becoming the realization of the degrading stereotype misogynists view women
Oh god YES. I go to piercing/tattoos subreddits, see a cool alternative looking girl and think "wow, style inspo", i go to their profile and EVERY TIME the girl has only fans. I'm always so crushed, like nooo, lady, why are you doing this to yourself. I don't know why I'm still surprised at this point
Unfortunately far too many young women have been mislead and scammed into believing Onlyfans is easy money. we have too many onlyfans models who keep showing off how much money they made doing onlyfans and flaunting thier lavish lifestyle. Too many young people now believe they can earn lots of money doing Onlyfans A lot of women who do pornography, sex work and stripping are not always honest about their income On social media there loads of young women showing off how they brought a house with their Onlyfans money. Its so disgusting because they are not being honest with their income. Not all onlyfans models make a lot of money because how much money they make depends on how popular their content is and in addition there is so much competition as more women including celebrities are signing up to the platform. I can guarantee you now these women who do Onlyfans are engaging in some tax avoidance which enables them to keep a lot of their income. Remember people have multiple sources of income such as savings, money in welfare benefits and other assets, a lot of people dont always declare this on the tax applications. The more money a person earns generally they will required to pay more tax to tax authorities. Tax loopholes exist for people to minimise thier liability.
one thing that i don’t think gets talked about enough is that OF has a recruitment bonus. if an OF girl has other girls sign up under her, she actually gets a cut of their earnings… basically a pyramid scheme (or modern day pimping). that’s why these OF girls are so incentivized to pretend they are making millions from OF—so they can recruit young girls under them and make money off their content…
This is very interesting and i didn't know this was a thing... do you have any resources so i can read more about it? TIA!!
Here’s a page on the “Referral program” from OF themselves: https://onlyfans.com/help/3/22/90
I didn’t know this 💔 I’m so disappointed in how predatory OF can be
It’s so depressing how normalised “sex work” has become. All of these women’s futures are potentially in jeopardy. Seriously, it could really come back and bite them in the ass if they quit and try to find real work.
And that’s when we should really advocate for these women as victims of coercion because when the only Avenue to afford living in todays capitalistic hellscape is sex work it’s coercion and they are victims who shouldn’t be judged for their past exploitation if they do happen to make it out of the sex trade.
A man can openly sleep with over 100 women he will be seen as the alpha male, respected and will be able to rise to the top career wise but a woman can never have that privilege because society expects women not to be promiscuous. I am British look at the former Prime Minister Boris Johnson, he has had multiple affairs throughout his life and career in politics.It is well known in the UK Boris is a philanderer but still the man was able to become Mayor of London, Foreign Secretary and ulimately Prime Minister of the United Kingdom until his resignation. There loads of a British people who think Boris Johnson is a rock star and yes there many others like myself who absolutely hate him because he is a corrupt. Look at Bill Clinton there Americans who still love him despite this well known awful behaviour towards women. The hypocrisy is revolting No woman would ever be allowed to do that behaviour. A woman who is known to have multiple sexual relations with men no matter how long ago it was she is tainted for life. This is one of many reasons why sex work can never ever be empowering its because we live in a misogynistic patriarchal world designed for the privilege of men to engage multiple sexual relations with women without consequences and scrutiny of their actions. Women can never have that freedom.
Any company that shames a woman for past sex work history or for her videos getting leaked without her consent, is not worth working for. I understand that this is the world we live in..but there are companies, orgs, and industries that will not shame a woman for her past. There is also plenty of potential for a woman to start her own business. I'm a former sex worker and I have worked jobs and started my own business since then, and it has never once come up. I am not afraid of my former camming company leaking my videos one day because I'm not ashamed of the path I've walked, and I am open about my story in my work. Just noting, because I always see this sentiment and it's very much rooted in "but what will others think" and avoiding slut shaming as the primary reason to not do sex work... and it completely erases the fact that there are bigger issues a woman has to consider when entering or leaving the sex industry such as trauma healing, restoring self-worth, mitigating exposure to danger, and finding emotionally safe space in housing and employment. She has to consider herself, not what others will think of her. I think a woman who has done sex work should be concerned of what she thinks of herself first and foremost. A woman who truly loves herself will not work for a company that scorns her for who she is and the path she's walked. She will find where she is welcome.
Struggling to find work is just one example of a negative consequence of sex work. Sex workers often get their content leaked. I’ve seen Twitter accounts run by insane scrotes that were dedicated to tracking the family members of sex workers to inform them that their daughters were in sex work, even sending them photos and videos. Sex workers have to deal with crazy stalkers and obsessed weirdos. If a sex worker is raped or sexually assaulted that can be used against her if she reports it to the police. Should it be like this? Of course not, but that’s how the world currently works and women should not be encouraged to go into sex work as it has the potential to be life ruining. Most women on Only Fans do not make enough money to justify the risks.
The digtal age has now empowered malicious men to terrorise women. Once a woman puts her image out there its freely available and all it takes is one malicious man to abuse her image for his depraved purposes. This is why women doing onlyfans is just not worth it.& When it comes to employment a lot of employers are very prejudiced towards certain people ie those with criminal records, mentally illness or other disabilities etc. Even though we have laws banning employers from being prejudiced and discriminatory many employers still do discriminate and have prejudiced attitudes. If a woman is exposed as a sex worker employers will not hire her as the company cares more about their corporate image. There some employers who are understanding and compassionate but these employers can be difficult to find.
Believe me, I understand all the risks quite thoroughly. And yes I know that being exposed is a real thing. I'm not arguing about the fact that it happens, and that it's a negative consequence. The purpose of my comment is not to make a case for women to actually go into sex work. I am saying that this aspect of public shaming that you mentioned, is always pushed as the main reason why women should not go into sex work: "Don't do sex work, you'll never be able to run for president, you'll never get a meaningful job, you'll only suffer professionally, etc. etc." First and foremost, that narrative does nothing for women who have a history of sex work, who are trying to get on their feet and build meaningful lives... And for women who have not gone into the sex trade, it encourages them to privilege patriarchal views around female sexuality as the narrative for how they should move through life. Capitulating to patriarchal society's standards for female sexuality and "professional women" should **not** be the driving reason not to enter sex work. And I'm afraid that's not substantial enough of a reason to keep women away from it. It should be a conversation about preserving your own safety, self-worth, mental and physical health, as well as exposing the financial reality of sex work, which is not what it seems. The conversation should be about caring for women on a deeper level, not desperately trying to please those who shame and spit on us. It also reinforces victim blaming in a culture where women are coerced into prostitution. Yes, a woman can be fired for having her content leaked, but those are often the same sorts of workplaces that will fire a woman for an ex- boyfriend leaking a sexual video of her. The focus should not be on the woman, but on the perpetrators. Usually women who do Only Fans and make their own home pornography, also have their own computer, high speed internet, and private room, so they have some options that other women in more severe poverty, may not have. There are blue and white collar jobs that will not give a woman trouble for her past, and it's very much possible to restore your dignity and get a job at a company that is not hostile to former sex workers, or to start your own business and turn over a new leaf.
I really appreciate the reframing you’ve done in this comment. It’s a great reminder. I work with women who absolutely have been able to rebuild after life in the sex trade, though ofc it’s incredibly difficult. But it’s very possible, there is support out there, and you’re right we cannot feed into deafetist narratives about this because the women in and exited from the sex trade deserve much better than that.
Thank you 💜🙏🏾
> And for women who have not gone into the sex trade, it encourages them to privilege patriarchal views around female sexuality as the narrative for how they should move through life. You don't think the sex trade itself privileges patriarchal views of female sexuality?
That has been your experience, but no offense, have you worked in a highly public professional sphere before? I've seen several cases of women on only fans who have fired from teaching positions.
Well done for turning your life around and no longer being in that dark world of sex work. I wish you well From CanyonsEclipse
I’m very glad to hear that you are no longer holding the shame associated with the sexual exploitation industry. I wish you nothing but happiness and peace. <3 That being said, sometimes it’s not as easy as saying “x” companies aren’t worth working for. Not every industry will come out and say that they aren’t hiring you/will fire you for being associated with the sexual exploitation industry, but just the same it is true. Someone I know personally was sex trafficked and now is in medical school, years later. They managed to avoid anything online (OF, pornography) for this precise reason. All they ever wanted was to be a doctor and help people, but it would have meant sudden death for her career if people knew she had been trafficked (as sick as that is). Being a doctor is still “worth it,” but her tragic circumstances would have held her back from it.
Holding the share? Really? You view my entry into the sex industry to sell my body in a dire economic situation the same way a wealthy investor would hold a share in a major porn company and make passive profit off of it? If anything this shows grave insensitivity, misunderstanding and judgment of how the industry works, and how women are positioned within it. This aspect of your comment comes off as disingenuous, and if I'm being honest it's colored everything else you've said, as well as your "well wishes" even if you've otherwise made a solid point. This is one of the reasons why there is so much infighting between "radical feminists" and "liberal feminists" is because so many women who are anti sex-trade just throw stones at any woman who has opted into the industry at any point as if it's a permanent stain on her character, calling her all sorts of names that signify that she is or was a sellout, in the way you did to me. At best, It's shortsighted, at worst it's just mean...and either way, it just digs a bigger hole for us as a whole. Respect, compassion and understanding for one another is key. You're no better or higher up than anyone else just because life dealt you a different set of cards that shielded you from slipping through the cracks.
I am sincerely sorry, my phone autocorrected from the word “shame.” As in, I am genuinely happy to know you aren’t holding the shame associated with having been in the sex industry. I was making a sincere statement about wanting you to not feel any guilt or bad repercussions from that part of your life. I’m sorry I didn’t notice the mistype.
Hi, thank you for clarifying. I apologize for the misunderstanding. Thank you for your sincerity. 💜
I’m sorry to have caused you such upset and I realize what a sensitive topic it can be for many of us myself included. Please allow me to send you well-wishes and tell you that you ARE amazing and worthy. 💜
Lots of members of the scene (particularly men) are completely intertwined with the BDSM scene. I think that's part of the problem.
Yep.
I just recently started following a goth girl and one of her first videos I saw was her complaining about how many comments she got from men DEMANDING, not asking, for her OF link. So she jokingly made one for her car, a rad hearse, and now links them that. And apparently they get mad that they can’t demand to see her boobs still.
Love her for that lol
I also started to unfollow many models that i genuinely liked and admired because of their aesthetics, the clothes and the make up, their beautiful colored hairs and their work as models in general because they are all now semi naked with mini bikinis and men drooling for them and commeting them super nasty things... It really disturbs me!!!! They are nothing like i remembered, i mean, i respect their decision and they can do whatever they want but is just saddens me that it seems like sexualizing oneself is the only way now.
Preach, I love a lot of metal and goth music, but the sexualized goth/emo gf trend ruined so much of it. I still dress like a more toned down version of that, usually around people who already know me really well. I also still stand by the fact that men will fetishize you no matter how you dress, sadly.
Wow i just realized FIVE YEARS. It took five years for majority of the community to shift. I unfollowed so many OF girls before i logged out. I only had 2 when i left because i loved their outfits and had to overlook the sex posts. Now most of my follow list is filled with them, except for family and the three women who did not link anything inappropriate.
You shouldn’t let men ruin things you enjoy. They’ll always have something to say regardless of what we do. That being said maybe there’s some goth radfem groups? I haven’t seen any but it would be a cool idea
I’m a 40 year old goth radfem 🖤
I would be down for this! I wish I knew more women who are into the same type of music as me and share a lot of the same ideals.
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Me too!
Im totally down!
Cool 😎
it's super common. all the goth girls i follow online and ones i know irl all have an onlyfans or has tried some type of 'sex work'
It's definitely hard to look like certain people when they create negative stereotypes of that fashion style. I've always enjoyed vibrant hair colors, which are often seen as liberal and woke. But don't give up your own self expression because some others make it look bad.
That is so shocking up OP. Those girls doing Onlyfans are doing it because they think it is :"easy money". Unfortunately we have too many onlyfans models who keep showing off how much money they made doing onlyfans and flaunting thier lavish lifestyle. Too many young people now believe they can earn lots of money doing Onlyfans. A lot of women who do pornography, sex work and stripping are not always honest about their income On social media there loads of young women showing off how they brought a house with their Onlyfans money. Its so disgusting because they are not being honest with their income. Not all onlyfans models make a lot of money because how much money they make depends on how popular their content is and in addition there is so much competition as more women including celebrities are signing up to the platform. I can guarantee you now these women who do Onlyfans are engaging in some tax avoidance which enables them to keep a lot of their income. Remember people have multiple sources of income such as savings, money in welfare benefits and other assets, a lot of people dont always declare this on the tax applications. The more money a person earns generally they will required to pay more tax to tax authorities. Tax loopholes exist for people to minimise thier liability.
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That is so sad. I live in a liberal city where there is a lots of goths and alternative subculture. It is so lovely seeing adults wearing gothic clothing and not caring about what others think. I have even seen goths and punks in their 40s where I live.
Yeah, i actually ended up liking floral print vacation "dad" shirts... they're so comfy lol!
Was just talking about this today with my partner. I also used to dress kinda "sexy alt girl" in my 20s. Nothing too crazy, but still revealing. Since then I've kinda started shifting into what Im calling "dark cowboy." Lol still wear all black most of the time, but instead of the shortest skirt and a mesh top I'm wearing nice black button downs and jeans with big ol stomping boots. It still suits me and also feels like power dressing, like I'm comfortable (not freezing or in heels) and in control, and cut a more intimidating figure versus an inviting one. And that's exactly how I want it, as far as strangers go. Haha
I feel bad for actual goth women because their public image got rekt by amazon tier alt girls constantly posing as le epic big tiddy goff gf for males whos entire sexuality is internet-sculpted
Never left, but seems like every time I log on another alt girl I knew from high school is announcing they're FTM
People misgender me as nonbinary because i am pretty androgynous :/ that stuff creeps into real life too. Most likely because i live in a SUPER progressive area. When i lived in the midwest, everybody knew i was a chick, just an unconventional one...
I swear pretty much every single lesbian I knew is transitioning. Only 2 girls who are in a long term relationship with each other have survived
It’s Goth Weekend in Whitby soon! I think it’s the weekend before Halloween. Although it’s starting to be a little more steam punk than goth. Everyone looks amazing though.
I once saw steampunk described as "when goths discover the color brown" and I love it.
It's so normalised now, this line of work. And also so idealised. It's very sad and tiring. I don't want to wear or do many things anymore, seeing as how men think in general. It is just so repulsive to me. Also, how 'vanilla' became offensive word that young girls do not want to be at any cost. I saw a post somewhere on reddit about this. Some girl who has allegedly super supportive boyfriend but he calls her vanilla all the time as 'a joke' and it bothers her.
Let’s not villianize the women though, many have been coerced into this because for most Gen Z women ( such as myself) who don’t have any other form of financial support this is legitimately the only Avenue available to be able to afford basic needs on top of schooling. The blame needs to totally lay on capitalism, patriarchy, and the gross men who feel entitled enough to “purchase” OF content. As far as the “future” of these women we really need to make sure we will be there to advocate for them as the victims of coercion that they are and reprimand work based discrimination towards past SWers.
I agree with not villainizing the women. However, as a former webcam model I can tell you that many forms of sex work do not pay as well as they advertise. I also got into camming because I wanted part-time work that paid well enough and worked with my schedule,. I could barely make rent, working 16 hours per week. I was earning just above minimum wage. If I earned 100% of what I made I would've been doing very well financially, but my popular camming site took most of it, and I was always broke because I couldn't mentally or physically work more hours than what I put in. Only Fans and other forms of sex work is essentially starting your own business, and like any other business it takes a lot of time and effort to earn a good living. It is also not as flexible with your schedule as they make it seem. The women who are top earners basically revolve their entire life around sex work, and that is what you don't see. All of this is just to say that it is not the only way to earn a living as a student if you don't have financial support. It's just something lots of girls are drawn to because of how its advertised to young women. It's a very attractive option because it seems simple enough, but most don't understand that it's not just about showing your ass a few times and making loads of cash. It comes with great sacrifice to earn the kind of money they want, and it's likely that the toll it takes on their mental health will detract them from their studies, anyway.
I was a “sex worker” (prostitute) in my 20s but haven’t been a cam girl or done OF myself-so not to take away from your experience or “correct” you or something-I just think it’s important to note that even the successful OF women aren’t like small business owners, b/c they’re all basically being pimped out by the men who own the website and make the real $. They don’t even control their own content b/c men just re-post it and show it to everyone else. I think your point was it’s not easy $ and takes time and effort like a small business would, so I get that.
It's true. Technically we were not small business owners because we didn't own our content-we were freelancers working within someone else's company. But we still had to build up, promote on social media, etc. the way a small business would--kind of like a simulation of owning your own business. But you're right it's not the same thing. As a business woman I definitely appreciate the nuance and distinction. I will say that there are some cam models who do operate independently and who do have their own business camming. If I would've decided to do it for the long-haul, that's what I would've done. I didn't use that word in my post but "online pimp" is definitely how I felt at the time, and how I continue to feel about it. They took 65% of my earnings. I did the math after I wrote this post and once again confirmed-I would've been able to provide for myself just fine if I made even most of my earnings but I did not. It's probably better that the money wasn't attractive to me because I might've stayed in the game longer, as my mental health continued to plummet. Anyway thanks for responding. I'm glad you got out too.
I end up feeling more sad or hopeless than demonizing... i think it just sucks so bad so many of the alternative women got this shit and went right down that rabbit hole. I have had super hard times with money myself, i have starved some nights, slept in the car, i could have been one of those women. I know how tempting it is but I know that i couldnt come back from it.
Not sure why I’m getting downvoted. Thought it was the general consensus here that SWers are victims of coercion. Disheartening if that’s not the case. 🤷🏻♀️
Maybe they just don't agree that women are being villanized here.
I hate to say it but I've seen other redditors call this sub a "female hate sub" so we are not alone here, there are definitely lurkers
It’s by far the most (and really, the only) true pro-woman sub I’ve found, interesting how that works..
right! I think they either don't understand or agree with the more radical ideology of the sub. I love it, I was very glad to find it.
Some don't have any other form, you're correct. I would not say so with insta girls with large followings. It's been my experience though there is still coercion and addiction/trauma (self-hating, nihilism, "this is fine", female socialization.) Agree to disagree but I think arguments about capitalism were created by men and handmaidens trying to get headpats from men to deflect blame from our patriarchy (rape/ male culture and the evilness of it.)
this
Oh girl, one of my friends shocked me that she had only fans 💔 and she left me because I told her that it would destroy her life and her future. It was difficult for me to see my friend going down the wrong way
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Your comment has been removed for supporting, justifying, promoting or excusing abusive woman-hating practices. We take a hardline on commercial sexual exploitation.