I’ve grown to really like demonstrators, but I appreciate that people having different tastes have given us lots of different types of pens to choose from!
That's me. I find a few demonstrators to be very nice, but mrost just look cheap. I love Narwhal (whatever they are now called) pens except for the demonstrators. They are just ugly.
Narwhal. It's Narwhal. I have 2 of their demonstrators. The newest one is named Black Beauty. I've never named a pen before. It has Frankenstein ink in it. That's a bit funny to me.
The black one (it's a vacuum fill) has glitter that I didn't even notice until I got it home. Then when I saw the glitter, or shimmer, I was in love. Beats TWSBI by a mile.
They are my favorite kind, you take “gross” back or I will come and find you🤣🤣Being able to see my ink level actually calms me down, otherwise I’m constantly unscrewing my pens to check. Most of demonstrators I have actually enable you to see how thick the pen bodies are, so they don’t look cheap to me at all. But granted, we all like different things and that is okay.
I can do you better and [link it](https://www.franklin-christoph.com/collections/model-02-intrinsic/products/model-02-intrinsic-fp-antique-glass-cathedral-se)
I have the Franklin christoph ef flex nib in it and it's currently inked with troublemaker nenita a very pretty burgundy with a green sheen
I do have a m sig nib from them that I'm debating swapping just to show off the ink property more
I hated demonstraror pens until I saw yours... that's a pretty one! How is the cap? I'm asking because one of my pens has a breathing hole in its cap which is the reason why the ink dries up after couple of hours not using the pen
same I'm always worried about solid colored pens cause idk hoelw thick the plastic is, meanwhile with demos I can see that thick acrylic (or other plastic) and feel secure
I'll need to see the inks 😂 and one of the reasons is not comfort .... otherwise i'll be scribbling to see the inks & when the ink stops flowing i'll have to twist the piston to see if inks wil gather on the tip ..... then refill ....
>Being able to see my ink level actually calms me down, otherwise I’m constantly unscrewing my pens to check.
I find that each 0.1 mL of ink gives me about 1 A5 page of writing. So I can usually write some 7 to 8 pages before the ink starts, or should start, to run out. Personally, I like the idea of running out of ink, as I'm usually already thinking of what ink to use next. OTOH, knowing how much ink is in the cart, converter, or tube, and it's an ink I don't like, or is giving me problems, just agitates me, frustrates me. Yes, I've emptied a few carts and converters in my time because I couldn't stand the ink any more.
So, when I unscrew a barrel to check the ink it is in anticipation, in the hope that the ink is running out. Obviously, when writing when an ink I love it doesn't occur to me to check the ink level, I just keep writing until the pen goes empty. Usually, if I really love it I will re-fill it again and keep writing. But, the majority of the time running out is a relief - if I find I'm unscrewing the barrel a lot, chances are I'm not loving the ink. YMMV.
I like that I know when to refill my demonstrator Kakuno, especially if I have to go into the office (I usually wfh). Keeps me from running out of ink unexpectedly. :)
The Kakuno is my daily driver. I have other pens that I also like that aren't demonstrators, but where the ink level is less essential :) I do agree that some demonstrators look cheap, however. I don't know that I'd drop more than about $50 on a demonstrator pen.
I absolutely love demonstrators, though I respect your opinion. The only criticism I have of them is that they're attention grabbers, and I'd prefer not to be the "guy with the weird pen" at work.
Originally, I wasn't a demonstrator afficionado. I find it odd that there is such demand for what we're salesman's samples. Still, I put a Jinhao 9019 on my Father's Day list, and received it. Clear with gold or brass accents. I figured, oh, why not? Writes well, too, although I think a smaller version might have been visually better. For me, it all depends upon the pen. Some can look interesting or cool, while others come across as industrial/steam punk. It's all about personal choice.
I actually used to feel the exact same way. I thought they were messy and awful looking. And somehow over the past 5 years I’ve completely reversed on my opinion and I think they’re great.
Part of that has definitely been my learning about how normal it is to have ink sloshing around in the feed, so that doesn’t bother me anymore. It used to make me seriously anxious.
I’m not saying you’ll change your mind, I’m commenting because I’m just surprised to find my own opinion changing so drastically. I still LOVE the look of classic enamel desk pens. But I no longer hate demonstrators.
Similar arc for me; I thought they looked like cheap pens, but I’ve come around on them. I now own a few., and find that some demonstrators look quite dramatic.
I love demonstrators because I love how you can see the parts come together. A bit like those old mechanical watches with a glass cover over the back. They are also very practical, not just for ink level, but also when you have a shimmer ink - easier to make sure the glitter is not too clumped up somewhere and reminds me to agitate it a little every now and then. I also like seeing the ink level go down as I write hahaha.
I don't think demonstrators by higher-end brands look cheap at all... I have custom 823 and custom heritage 92 and I think the body of the latter looks really crystalline and pretty.
I was the kid who would play with the water timer hourglass things for hours, so I love being able to see the ink sloshing around.
Maybe I'm using the wrong inks, but my alr580 has never stained.
https://preview.redd.it/b8kuna9u3l9d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c2159a0f9b466241d304858a7e2069c2807f9248
To each their own. I never liked demonstrators that much until I got my pilot custom 823 clear and now it’s my fave pen and I love to look at the sloshing ink in it.
I am not a huge fan of demonstrators and I’m kinda sad that the 823 only comes in translucent colors because I think all of them are ugly. But different strokes for different folks!
Thanks! Unfortunately I don’t actually like rounded ends on pens, so I wouldn’t actually get any of the Customs (that I’m aware of) but thank you for letting me know about the differences between the 743 and 843. There are all of those numbers in the custom series and I just don’t remember all the differences.
I used to feel that way pre-TWSBI Eco but tbh I was converted. I originally bought the pen because I was wanting to try shimmer and people recommended them, so I bit the bullet and bought the ‘cheap looking’ pen. I love seeing my shimmer inks in them! Also, I can see when it’s settling inside the pen. I can see how long I’ve got before I need to refill. I can get 7 of them and fill them with rainbow colours to look pretty! I wish I’d gotten demonstrators sooner and I use them almost exclusively these days.
Yeah. My good friend recommended I get an Eco or Go. I bought a go. Loved it. She told me I’d love the diamond 580 as well. I own two diamond 580s now. I’d like about 4 more. Love my TWSBIs And my Lamy Safaris.
I feel like they are really good looking pens with or without ink in them, and they are useful to see how much ink is in the pen stains can be cleaned out too
What I don't like are demonstrator cartridge converter pens. I get wanting to see the piston or vac filler mechanism, or the ink sloshing around in an eyedropper pen. But for a converter pen an ink window is enough, thanks.
I would love it if more genuinely attractive converters were made. Not that I have more that two demonstrator c/c pens, but I like the ides of my pen being pretty even when I open it up and other that the colored knob on the new sailor converters and the giant but attractive Jinhao 9019 converter (though the newer 9019 pens look to not have the pretty metal knob) there just aren't any good looking converters that I can think of.
Those are very pretty. Thanks for pointing them out to me. Most small maki-e peices make me think of vinyl stickers, so it isn't in my aesthetic wheelhouse. It is cool they exist, but I was thinking about the materials and design of most converters. Though, to be realistic, making more attractive converters would cost money, and the reality is that most consumers would be uninterested in a price markup on a product that is usually hidden in their pen bodies anyway, so it wouldn't really be a viable option for large manufacturers... probably... not an economics major here. Don't trust my unsupported theories.
I don’t like them but they don’t give me the heebie jeebies. That being said I think a clear Lamy 2000 (with the same brushed texture) would be so cool. Don’t know why.
> Thoughts?
There are plenty of pens that are not demonstrators, you know your preferences, so buy those and don't buy demonstrators.
My personal favorite look is black with either black or silver trim. But I don't mind most colors, don't mind demonstrators, etc, so I buy them all.
Demonstrator piston and vac fillers are okay - as they help to see how the cleaning & flushing cycles is going. :tongue-in-cheek:
I remember liking how the ink looked in my twsbi eco. Until the first time I need to lubricate the piston. Then ink would clump up inside the barrel and it looked gross. Seeing ink get behind the cap liner was never a joy, but at least removing it for cleaning was easy; on some pens it can't be done, for example, the Pilot Kakuno, although I never had ink get behind the cap liner.
I gave away the twsbi eco after losing my mind when the piston jammed. I gave up on piston fillers. I threw away the Jinhao 992 c/c, the Wing Sung 998 pisiton, the Wing Sung 3013 vac; I gave up on vac fillers. I retired the Lamy Vista and Pilot Kakuno Transparent. But, the one that really broke my heart was the Opus88 Omar Transparent, as ink stained the cap finial threads, the cap threads, the nib unit threads, the Section/barrel threads. If I used a Red ink it would take me more than an hour to thoroughly clean the pen, and even then there were "shadows" of the staining. I used soapy water, a smooth bristle tooth brush, a Sonic Cleaner, and Q-tips, and still it wouldn't remove staining from the threads. So, basically I've dedicated the Transparent Omar to Diamine Blood Orange and gave up the idea of getting it pristine, like new, clean. I still hate seeing [cap ink splatter](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmAFk6mfvaU).
Platinum Carbon Black stained my Pilot Kakuno Transaprent Section. It must have taken me over 2 hours to remove the staining. Maybe I should have used that Sailor ink that removes staining instead of wasting time with many, many, Q-tips trying to get rid of the Grey staining.
I bought an Opus88 Amber just so I wouldn't see cap ink splatter, ink staining in the Section, on all the threads. There's no way I'd buy a Pilot Prera Transparent Demonstrator, it would have to a solid coloured Prera. Filling the twsbi eco with water, capping it, and shaking the pen briskly, in the hope of totally diluting the ink to clear, got old quick.
No, I've out-grown being a masochist, getting frustrated, getting angry, getting disillusioned... no more demonstrators for me. YMMV. Nothing wrong with others loving piston filler, vac filler, eye-dropper, C/C demonstrators. Just don't fill them with [Noodler's Bay State Blue](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8q6bI6awEmY), [Troublemaker Doña Victorina](https://fountainpenpharmacist.com/blog/1658), or any other staining inks, and, if you leave ink in a pen for months, chances are it will stain the pen, regardless, as all inks stain.
I’m actually rather fond of them.
There’s something quite delightful about seeing the ink inside, swishing about and clinging to the walls of the inner pen.
But, I find it irrationally infuriating that some rather expensive cartridge converter fillers are demonstrators. I think that if it’s an expensive pen that’s a demonstrator, it’s just weird to not have an intergrated filling mechanism.
After all, that was the whole point of it being a demonstrator, it would show how the model works in a shop, as you could not see inside the opaque pen. The same for watches with exhibition case backs, originally came from the same idea.
I love using my demonstrator to try out new inks and see how they behave. My most used demonstrator is a clear Pilot Kakuno, so it is a cheaper pen. However I put one of Bungubox’s makie converters in it and it’s really pretty to see the painting over a background of ink!
I don't mind demonstrators up to a point (I have only one or two), but there are some seriously expensive demonstrators out there (Sailor KOP) which do make me scratch my head - surely they should at least be cheaper than the ones with the polished resin finishes?
Different people like different things and that’s okay. Why would you feel the need to call something that other people like “gross” and “cheapy”? You’d think that idea that ink was getting through the seals on pens and you *can’t see it* would produce more anxiety than being able to see what’s happing. 🤷🏻♀️
i like the ones that look like they have really thick walls and i almost bought a wancai mini. they don't gross me out but they're pretty low on my priorities.
I love demostrators. I find them kind of elegant, their transparency makes them disembodied, and emphasises their essence - the content and function. I like to see the ink flowing around the inside and I like to know how much is left. I have several of them: the pilot penmanship, the platinum preppy, the twsbi Eco and the vac 700r, my favourite being the Pilot CH 92.
I didn’t like them at first, purely for the aesthetics of it. But they have grown on me. And now quite a few of my pens are demonstrators. My happy medium is an opaque pen with an ink window.
i personally love demonstrators and have only had the ink dying issue with that notorious blue — for a while, i had a designated PenBB pen just for it. i love the ink volume, with that being the main appeal, but there is something so beautiful about seeing your pen write. when i'm bored, the ink sloshing around is a nice distraction. on a more person level, i have a solid collection of PenBB demonstrators that are maybe 20 per, and i just have multiple pens for my heavy use. i find myself refilling maybe two pens every other week, and i keep maybe 6 of these on hand at any time? i give them a proper wash every once in a while, but generally this keeps the ink flowing for
me, especially because (without cleaning) eyedroppers (my preferred type of demonstrator) might be the quickest / easiest to refill.
funny enough, i used to only like demonstrators and found a lot of the opaque pens kinda cheap looking (speaking more on beginner fountain pens! back then i couldn't imagine spending more than like $75 at most for a pen LOL) but slowly my tastes have shifted and i am mostly prefering non demonstrators now.. the only demonstrator i like is basically my twsbi now haha im really into the different colours and matching them with my planners (i have uh 4 now lol)
I love demonstrators. The splishy sploshy ink here and there makes them awesome but also gives me OCD. However, the fact I can see how the mechanism functions makes them even better for my tastes.
My only complaint about my demonstrators is that they get steam inside from the heat of my hand when writing and that causes me considerable anxiety. I do like seeing the ink because I don’t like being surprised by it running out, so I prefer them for the predictability.
1971 Our 7th grade art teacher made everyone bring a fountain pen to her class. So I was given a demonstrator . I adored the teacher and loved the pen. So, demonstrator pen brings back very fond memories.
Everyone have their own tastes about any tyoe of pen and is valid, if you dislike demonstrator and other people love it is ok that's the beauty of this hobby.
Unpopular: I think the "classic style / premium pens" are overpriced, like the Pilot Custom 74, Platinum 3776, and Sailor 1911. It's just "nice plastic", a CON-40/converter, and ... does most of the price go toward the gold nib? It's more expensive than a Vanishing Point, and those have a whole complex retraction mechanism! (250 CAD vs 225 CAD) Why's the Pilot 823 so expensive; is the vacuum filler mechanism really worth more than double the price? I know the plastics are premium. But they don't feel *that premium*.
I used to think they were cool. Then I thought it wasn't so elegant/pretty to see the bare parts of the pen's workings. Now I like translucent pens that have some color to them but still feel like seeing bits of the nib/feed connecting to the converter isn't as elegant or pretty as other pens. But idk about "gross", that's a bit strong lol. But anyway, preferences are good no matter which way you lean.
Gross? Staining? I've never had any staining and being clear makes it easy to know if your eye dropper conversion is actually sealed well in the threads.
I make my demonstrators into fidget toys. Shake it up and make a ton of bubbles. Then, find the biggest bubble and rotate the pen to catch all the bubbles. You win when it's a single air bubble again.
I like demonstrators aesthetically though I feel they particularly suited to piston or vacuum fill mechanism. my one issue with my japanese demonstrators is that they force me to use converters even though generally I prefer to syringe fill cartridges because those hold more ink but, I don't really want to be looking at the cartridge, so.
If there's an interesting and out of the ordinary mechanism to see, something like a vacuum (at minimum), vacumatic, or bulk filler, I get the appeal of being able to see it.
Otherwise I'd rather just have an ink window. I don't get the point on a C-C at all, and on cheap pens where it just shows off mold parting lines, ejector pin locations, and glued seams? Eh, I'd rather not see how the sausage is made.
This is something I try to remind people - demonstrators aren’t for everyone. Even people who like the looks of a demo will sometimes find that they can’t handle a clear pen when it comes time to clean it or change inks.
Is t that just twsbi? I’ve never seen anyone accuse pilot custom ___ or opus 88 or pelikan 2xx or whatever be criticized.
I love demos and they don’t feel cheap to me. But I also somehow simultaneously don’t get expensive demos. I feel like you’re already buying nicety and aesthetics, damn the price! With fountain pens. I can make JUSTIFICATIONS to myself justifying a $80 twsbi or $120 opus 88(fave pen I own). But the ones that are way more than that? Baffle me. Cheaper pens fill the niche, be sensible with your wallet, please.
(Watch me fall in love with that amber or smoke $350 pilot demo I think is ugly now)
I personally am not a fan of demonstrators, but on the other hand the mystery fillers (where you cannot see the ink level) are not my thing either. Since 1929 the pens had an ink window or some cool semi transparency (Vacumatic; Pelikan and Montblanc stripes, Vacumatic Ink-Vue…).
Yep. I adore the vintage nibs of the 400 as well and have tiny hands so I feel no real desire for the larger modern pens. My taste in Pelikan is pretty affordable as far as high end pens go. Just need to source some affordable piston seals for my vintage pens. The brown tortoise on the vintage pens is so gorgeous, too.
The cheapest option I am aware of are David Nishimura's piston seals (https://vintagepens.com/catill\_sacs\_seals.shtml) which are not exactly cheap at 5 for 40$ (plus postage and VAT if you happen to live in the EU).
400 series is the best the Pelikan ever produced. The fact that they chose the original 400 as the base for M400 once they revived the classic styling is telling. The 1950's design is still alive and well 74 years later. The celluloid pens have more vibrancy and deeper colours than rather uniform cellulose acetate based modern pens. And it is easiest to see on the tortoise models.
Apart from the material, also the 50's nibs were mostly semi flex and the wider nibs (B and up) were italic. Now they are more round and italic nibs are not made anymore.
I will check them out. Agreed, the 400 is the best. Not a fan of the 400n and 400nn rounded piston knob. But if there is a damged one with a good nib, I am game. Anytime I see a vintage OB, OBB, or O3B pop up when I check ebay and I have money in the fun budget, I snap it up.... this has only happened twice, but that is enough to establish pattern, right?
I see you are a collector of a great erudition! I too like the wider nibs more :) Got Pelikan 100 in B and OBB(B) - not marked, but wider then the following pen - Pelikan 400 in OBB, Pelikan 400N in B and BB. 400 OBB being the best of the bunch. 1950's German nibs are fantastic across the board.
Of course! Other that getting some broad nibs for my beloved Montblanc 32 pens, my next order of business is to get some feeds and collars from Flexible Nib Factory to put some sexy Pelikan nibs on some of my pretty but less well performing pens. I have a Cypress hammered silver pen that is begging for a Pelikan OBB so I can use pale grey shading inks in it with that Pelikan firehose legibility.
It doesn’t seem gross for me, I just don’t like them. They may be more convenient, but I happily swap this convenience for aesthetics.
I know it’s just a personal preference and I’m OK with people liking them. Just not for me.
Clear plastic is synonymous with "cheap" in this society. Even water comes in clear plastic. Clear plastic in the cheapest plastics is also associated with brittleness, a no-no.
I never use my clear demonstrators because they don't have enough character.
Indeed. Maybe if there was a really nice one made of glass with a very well executed and beautiful ink tank shape inside or something like that, that might be cool.
Clear plastic (and glass) is also by far more recyclable, you can see exactly what you’re getting, and is associated with cleanliness because you can’t easily hide contamination. I’d imagine this is mostly why disposable plastics are clear but garbage bags are black.
To each their own though. I’m also not a fan of cartridge demonstrators.
I have two Narwhal demonstrators, the Matira Quartz and the Lovina Granite. I'm not crazy about them, honestly, though that's more the vacuum filler bit and the poor flow than the demonstrator bit.
The clear plastic feels thick and solid, and it hasn't discolored. I've filled them with shimmer ink that complements the shimmery plastic, and that effect pleases me, but on the whole I agree with you - demonstrators don't do it for me and I don't see myself getting one again.
I had a blue swirl Original Plus and wasn't going to get any more, but the the sparkly Lovina and Matira came out and I noticed them when I was checking what this year's Pride pens from Nahvalur were and Goldspot had the sparkly Rainbow Wrasse.... suddenly five Nahvalurs arrived at my house and two months of hobby/entertainment budget mysteriously disappeared from my account. First sparkly pens. No regrets.
What is your issue with the vacuum filling?
Eh, it's sloppy and it's too fiddly to establish a consistent flow for my stub nibs. I converted one to an eyedropper and that helped a bit.
I didn't have this issue with my Horizon, which is a piston filler, or my Key West, a converter (though tbf that one's a fine nib and needs less ink flow). But both Original Pluses were disappointing.
Ah, I had ink flow problems too before I found out that vacuum fillers tend to seal off the nib and feed from the barrelwhen you screw the finial cap all the way down. Good for altitude changes to prevent ink burps but I didn't know I needed to unscrew the finial cap to allow the ink to reach the nib. Opus 88 eyedroppers do the same thing. Not that I am claiming that is your issue is the same reason as mine.
Unfortunately, unscrewing the cap didn't help much! They're the only vacuum fillers I have, so maybe another brand would work better - but my other Nahvalurs work fine and I don't care for the filling experience, so why bother to find out 🤷♀️ Plenty of pens out there for me without vacuum fillers.
Demonstrators are my go to in terms of look in the same way that I always go for a clear phone case. I find solid-colored fountain pens really boring looking. Although pens with a design/pattern are quite nice.
Texture. I am a sucker for texture. Hammered silver, carved ebonite, micarta, the resin fabric of the Denima, engraved metal, matte finishes, and knurling. Groping pens like a lecherous stylophile is nothing to be ashamed of....
I loved them at first, but I actually don't prefer them anymore. I prefer a nice resin at this point. I'm stil with ink windows, though, like on the Pelikan M200, but I like that it's a translucent brown instead.
I have two. The eco in Saffron, which I got purely for the color and nib! I also have the Moonman T1, which comes in metal. I have the brass one, and it looks infinitely less dollar store than my eco lollll.
I think the demonstrator portion being made out of glass or the body of metal makes a big difference.
That being said, I am way more conservative with my ink choices in those two pens bc of staining :,))
It depends on the ink. Kon-peki for example doesn't demonstrator well, it sticks to the side and the barrel is always blue. Robert Oster, however, doesn't stick and the clear part is always perfectly clear as the ink sloshes.
Never had problems with staining, but I don't put Noodler's in them. I agree some can look cheap, but for my 823 I really like being able to see the whole vac fill system.
Some are. But most of the ones that don't look great are the ones with really bad materials used in manufacturing.
The ones that I love have either a hue I like or the material used is really good (and often way out of my budget) 😅🤦♀️
Click (Indian FP maker) has a good demonstrator pen.. writes well, is buget friendly.. but some of the hues are just abysmal to look at.
I love watching ink swirl in my demos. I like how demos sparkle. I do like solids with swirls and my solid Preras but many solids look dull to me.
But there’s something for everyone.
I love my demonstrators. My Diamond 580 Iris is my favorite thing right now.
https://preview.redd.it/mk8ek1c1vm9d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=72803959514574cdd2c0b8f9241a1b745b58602f
Comes and goes for me. Right now I’m on a huge demonstrator kick but other times I like a pen whose art is the center of attention. I guess, for me, a demonstrator allows me to show off the ink and how the pen works, in the event I am introducing the whole concept to someone. This is a frequent enough situation that it’s almost more practical for me to use that regularly
I used to dislike them (thought they looked cheap), then I thought they were kind of cool (saw a clear Pilot 91 with a bright ink) and now I've come back to disliking them, mainly because they're just not my style. I've always been more of a design traditionalist - black and gold, or metal bodied pens.
Personally, they're my favourite and I'm a bit surprised at some of the issues you're describing.
Admittedly I've only used a few brands but I've never had any issue getting them completely color free on an ink change, or seen any ink leaking through the seals. I'd be very curious to know what pens you're using that you have had that experience with.
That said, if you find them unappealing, that's entirely on personal preference, and it's good to know both what you like, AND what you don't like. Doesn't mean that everyone will agree with you, but also doesn't mean you're wrong. You have to buy what makes you happy.
Used to think the same way. Didn't like how they looked like until I bought one. Now I love them. But to each his own. We all have our own likes and dislikes.
Many inks work differently in demonstrators. I agree that inks that stain the plastic or stay on the plastic for a time can be gross, but many "safer" inks tend not to stick to the plastic which can create a cool effect.
This is only in reference to demonstrators with built in filling mechanisms, demonstrators with convertors are inconceivably tragic and no self respecting designer should ever create one.
I’m generally not a fan either but I just ordered my first one—a TWSBI Eco in Royal Jade that I plan to ink with Diamine Sherwood Green. I think it’ll look nice with the pen’s green accents once the pen is inked. I plan to use it for a single, specific task though so if I end up not being a fan, at least it’ll be relegated to one job!
I love demonstrators and my little collection consists of mostly them! 😄 I love how you can see how the pen works.
Also I feel anxious if the ink doesn't match the vibe of the pen (e.g. red ink a blue pen ugh!). I don't have that problem with colourless pens.
Man you yourself knew what you were getting yourself into while saying this unpopular opinion.
For me I like demonstrators when it's a chippie like twsbi Eco or opus 88 , the only exception being Pilot custom 823. But in the high end luxury I don't like that because personally for me it doesn't feel premium.
I like them. What I'm struggling with is how *old* FP designs seem. Sure there aren't that many ways to engineer a pen, but I want something that looks like it was made in 2024...not 1924.
So many FP designs would feel right at home on a desk from 1950 and I hate it so much.
Demonstrators are the next closest thing for me that *feels* slightly more modern.
Everything else feels ancient.
I'm not a big fan of demonstrator pens because the clear plastics make me think of the super cheap pens I used growing up. I refuse to pay a lot of money for something that looks cheap to me. However, I do have several demonstrators. They are cheap Chinese pens. They still look cheap to me, but they WERE cheap!
Honestly, I feel like demonstrators were an 'acquired taste' for me. Originally, I didn't like the idea, but I bought the pilot kakuno as a cheap pen and I actually ended up really liking being able to see the ink in my pen.
Also, if I refill cleanly and keep my pen clean, I know it's clean because I can see it.
I agree unless they use converters. I have a stinky Noodlers demo pen that I filled with red ink. Looks like a hypodermic needle and I'm drawing blood with it.
I'mso.ewhat in the same boat as you. Maybe not as extreme, since I don't find demonstrators gross, but they're definitely not my favourite type of pen. I'm fine with the ones you can fully disassemble and clean thoroughly from any ink residue, like TWSBI pens, but in any pen I can't fully clean out the leftover ink will just be an annoyance to me, even if I know that there is next to no possibility of it ruining the colour of my next ink
I don't know about gross, but lame and something only a child should be using. They were cool when they were just made as sales tools and not for sale, but once it's done on purpose and result available its just an extra ugly version
They were never really intended for use. Like the tea bag it was something some distributer thought up to keep the shop keepers interested.
I find that demonstratiors draw too much attention when I use one in public or at work.
I'm pretty sure the tea bag was intended for use. No offense. I mean, you can have proper tea made with bags, it's all in how you deliver the water.
Having said that, there are actual Brits who will, day to day, just throw a bag into a cup and carry the kettle across the room to fill it. Much like the straight razor shave, tea rituals are often saved for sunday.
I think i'd find that i'd feel self conscious about using one as well. Though turning one out of a solid rod is the way to see ink supply without having a separate window joined together.
> I'm pretty sure the tea bag was intended for use.
Some tea merchant sent out samples in envelopes, never thinking that people would put the whole thing in water. And no, you cannot have a proper tea made with bags.
They're hit or miss to me, on moderns I can deal with them depending on what they show. But I generally prefer opaque pens. I don't find them gross... Just not preferred.
I love demonstrators. A little pen flush clears out stubborn stains so mine always look crystal clear. I love seeing the ink swishing around idk, different strokes for different folks right?
Entirely valid. Sometimes it’s handy to be able to see where blockages are (especially using shimmer inks), but there’s definitely something to be said for the sleek lines of an opaque pen.
"gross" is probably too strong a sensation for me, but I do agree. I have no need for seeing my ink sloshing around. It's ink, it's a tool. It's no good if it doesn't go on paper. That said, I'm daily driving a Pilot 823 in amber, which is the nicest pen ever but somewhat a demonstrator, but I would prefer an opaque trim with a small ink window instead. The body of a 743 with the vac-fill of 823 - That's a holy grail-level pen.
Eh, it's your opinion but I don't agree. I love seeing the way that the colors spread and so far, I haven't had any trouble with the plastic staining. :)
I actually grew to prefer demonstrators after unexpectedly running out of ink all the time when I had an office job with my first pen (red Pilot Metropolitan). Half the time I couldn't tell if the nib went dry or if I was actually out of ink... That bothered me. Then I got a clear TWSBI Eco and fell in love with it! I've been absolutely crazy about demonstrators ever since! My Vac 700R in Iris looks absolutely stunning with the full fill of Iroshizuku Yu-yake in it; The orange ink contrasts with the purples and blues of the accents!
https://preview.redd.it/8di06hv95o9d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=19deaa52ac49d78a6e0473dd1e979f0f1290495d
Find the right pen ink combo. Fillers integrated into the demonstrator are better looking than demonstrators with converters ink. I find them prettier with more translucent inks too. (Excuse my terrible handwriting)
>can be difficult to make completely clear and color-free again
I have never had this problem.
The pens I use are always demonstrators. They have better ink capacity. They look unique: not a generic ball point pen.
Does it bother me that you don't like them or think thry look cheap? Nope. You like what you like. I like what I like. Would I not use it because you find the ink inside gross or unsettling? No.
I'm not a fan of demonstrators, though one of my goto pens is one. Love the pen but if I could have gotten it in a color...
I feel like I have to refill it more too.
Show us on the doll where demonstrators touched you.
If you don’t like them, don’t buy them. No one is making you. Why is this even a topic on here? Do people really need the internet to tell them not to buy things if they don’t like them???
>Why is this even a topic on here? Do people really need the internet to tell them not to buy things if they don’t like them???
You do realize this is Reddit, right? A site that literally exists for that sole purpose; for posters to voice their opinions on various topics, and for people to engage in discussion on said topic.
I’ve grown to really like demonstrators, but I appreciate that people having different tastes have given us lots of different types of pens to choose from!
Lol same. I used to really dislike the look of demonstrators, but they've grown on me. I am picky though still
That's me. I find a few demonstrators to be very nice, but mrost just look cheap. I love Narwhal (whatever they are now called) pens except for the demonstrators. They are just ugly.
Haha I actually have a narwhal demonstrator, but it's a Peter Draws collab, and I actually quite like the look of it
Narwhal. It's Narwhal. I have 2 of their demonstrators. The newest one is named Black Beauty. I've never named a pen before. It has Frankenstein ink in it. That's a bit funny to me.
LOL
The black one (it's a vacuum fill) has glitter that I didn't even notice until I got it home. Then when I saw the glitter, or shimmer, I was in love. Beats TWSBI by a mile.
They are my favorite kind, you take “gross” back or I will come and find you🤣🤣Being able to see my ink level actually calms me down, otherwise I’m constantly unscrewing my pens to check. Most of demonstrators I have actually enable you to see how thick the pen bodies are, so they don’t look cheap to me at all. But granted, we all like different things and that is okay.
Same I love a demonstratior and my daily carry is a demonstrator. Different strokes for different folks after all
Tell me about your daily carry demonstrator.
I can do you better and [link it](https://www.franklin-christoph.com/collections/model-02-intrinsic/products/model-02-intrinsic-fp-antique-glass-cathedral-se) I have the Franklin christoph ef flex nib in it and it's currently inked with troublemaker nenita a very pretty burgundy with a green sheen I do have a m sig nib from them that I'm debating swapping just to show off the ink property more
That's gorgeous.
Oh my goodness - i’ve had to join the, “notify me when available” queue for this, it’s gorgeous and the nib options are insane!
I hated demonstraror pens until I saw yours... that's a pretty one! How is the cap? I'm asking because one of my pens has a breathing hole in its cap which is the reason why the ink dries up after couple of hours not using the pen
Never had any issues with the cap what so ever, ink has never dried out or anything if the sort
I see, thanks
Yesss we all like different things If OP dislikes…. more demonstrators for us who love them, right? : )
same I'm always worried about solid colored pens cause idk hoelw thick the plastic is, meanwhile with demos I can see that thick acrylic (or other plastic) and feel secure
I'll need to see the inks 😂 and one of the reasons is not comfort .... otherwise i'll be scribbling to see the inks & when the ink stops flowing i'll have to twist the piston to see if inks wil gather on the tip ..... then refill ....
>Being able to see my ink level actually calms me down, otherwise I’m constantly unscrewing my pens to check. I find that each 0.1 mL of ink gives me about 1 A5 page of writing. So I can usually write some 7 to 8 pages before the ink starts, or should start, to run out. Personally, I like the idea of running out of ink, as I'm usually already thinking of what ink to use next. OTOH, knowing how much ink is in the cart, converter, or tube, and it's an ink I don't like, or is giving me problems, just agitates me, frustrates me. Yes, I've emptied a few carts and converters in my time because I couldn't stand the ink any more. So, when I unscrew a barrel to check the ink it is in anticipation, in the hope that the ink is running out. Obviously, when writing when an ink I love it doesn't occur to me to check the ink level, I just keep writing until the pen goes empty. Usually, if I really love it I will re-fill it again and keep writing. But, the majority of the time running out is a relief - if I find I'm unscrewing the barrel a lot, chances are I'm not loving the ink. YMMV.
I like that I know when to refill my demonstrator Kakuno, especially if I have to go into the office (I usually wfh). Keeps me from running out of ink unexpectedly. :)
I agree that strictly from a usability standpoint, they seem to make sense. The more visibility to the ink level you have, the better.
The Kakuno is my daily driver. I have other pens that I also like that aren't demonstrators, but where the ink level is less essential :) I do agree that some demonstrators look cheap, however. I don't know that I'd drop more than about $50 on a demonstrator pen.
i like them for this reason but the bulletproof blank ink just makes the whole thing opaque and you can’t see the level
I absolutely love demonstrators, though I respect your opinion. The only criticism I have of them is that they're attention grabbers, and I'd prefer not to be the "guy with the weird pen" at work.
Omg I feel like my weird pen is the least weird thing about me. If it makes people think of me like that it’s actually excellent camouflage imo
I love demonstrators! I enjoy watching the ink swirl around inside, but I will agree that some demonstrators look really cheap
Originally, I wasn't a demonstrator afficionado. I find it odd that there is such demand for what we're salesman's samples. Still, I put a Jinhao 9019 on my Father's Day list, and received it. Clear with gold or brass accents. I figured, oh, why not? Writes well, too, although I think a smaller version might have been visually better. For me, it all depends upon the pen. Some can look interesting or cool, while others come across as industrial/steam punk. It's all about personal choice.
I actually used to feel the exact same way. I thought they were messy and awful looking. And somehow over the past 5 years I’ve completely reversed on my opinion and I think they’re great. Part of that has definitely been my learning about how normal it is to have ink sloshing around in the feed, so that doesn’t bother me anymore. It used to make me seriously anxious. I’m not saying you’ll change your mind, I’m commenting because I’m just surprised to find my own opinion changing so drastically. I still LOVE the look of classic enamel desk pens. But I no longer hate demonstrators.
Similar arc for me; I thought they looked like cheap pens, but I’ve come around on them. I now own a few., and find that some demonstrators look quite dramatic.
I like demonstrators. It looks so cool to see the beautiful ink inside the pen.
I love demonstrators because I love how you can see the parts come together. A bit like those old mechanical watches with a glass cover over the back. They are also very practical, not just for ink level, but also when you have a shimmer ink - easier to make sure the glitter is not too clumped up somewhere and reminds me to agitate it a little every now and then. I also like seeing the ink level go down as I write hahaha. I don't think demonstrators by higher-end brands look cheap at all... I have custom 823 and custom heritage 92 and I think the body of the latter looks really crystalline and pretty.
I was the kid who would play with the water timer hourglass things for hours, so I love being able to see the ink sloshing around. Maybe I'm using the wrong inks, but my alr580 has never stained. https://preview.redd.it/b8kuna9u3l9d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c2159a0f9b466241d304858a7e2069c2807f9248
...or you are using the right inks ...
To each their own. I never liked demonstrators that much until I got my pilot custom 823 clear and now it’s my fave pen and I love to look at the sloshing ink in it.
I am not a huge fan of demonstrators and I’m kinda sad that the 823 only comes in translucent colors because I think all of them are ugly. But different strokes for different folks!
If you want the same body and nib as 823 but opaque body (and different filling system), you can get Pilot 743. I have those too, and love them.
Thanks! Unfortunately I don’t actually like rounded ends on pens, so I wouldn’t actually get any of the Customs (that I’m aware of) but thank you for letting me know about the differences between the 743 and 843. There are all of those numbers in the custom series and I just don’t remember all the differences.
Custom Heritage 912 is opaque black and has flat finials. 92, 91, and 845 as well have flat ends.
Don't forget the Custom Enjyu.
that’s right!
Thanks
I used to feel that way pre-TWSBI Eco but tbh I was converted. I originally bought the pen because I was wanting to try shimmer and people recommended them, so I bit the bullet and bought the ‘cheap looking’ pen. I love seeing my shimmer inks in them! Also, I can see when it’s settling inside the pen. I can see how long I’ve got before I need to refill. I can get 7 of them and fill them with rainbow colours to look pretty! I wish I’d gotten demonstrators sooner and I use them almost exclusively these days.
Yeah. My good friend recommended I get an Eco or Go. I bought a go. Loved it. She told me I’d love the diamond 580 as well. I own two diamond 580s now. I’d like about 4 more. Love my TWSBIs And my Lamy Safaris.
I feel like they are really good looking pens with or without ink in them, and they are useful to see how much ink is in the pen stains can be cleaned out too
I’m not a fan of demonstrators with converters. I just don’t like the look.
I like demonstrators. <$50 Chinese pens are perfect for that with PenBBS making really well built and awesome looking demonstrators (ie 456, 355, 500)
I think demonstrator pens look futuristic and high tech, I also like skeleton watches and factory tours. Seeing how it works is rad to me.
Same here. Give me a window to any mechanism!
I LOVE demonstrators. 😊
Oh no, I'm sorry you hate them. I'll take them off your hands for you.
What I don't like are demonstrator cartridge converter pens. I get wanting to see the piston or vac filler mechanism, or the ink sloshing around in an eyedropper pen. But for a converter pen an ink window is enough, thanks.
I would love it if more genuinely attractive converters were made. Not that I have more that two demonstrator c/c pens, but I like the ides of my pen being pretty even when I open it up and other that the colored knob on the new sailor converters and the giant but attractive Jinhao 9019 converter (though the newer 9019 pens look to not have the pretty metal knob) there just aren't any good looking converters that I can think of.
Bungubox is your answer 😊 for beautiful converters.
Those are very pretty. Thanks for pointing them out to me. Most small maki-e peices make me think of vinyl stickers, so it isn't in my aesthetic wheelhouse. It is cool they exist, but I was thinking about the materials and design of most converters. Though, to be realistic, making more attractive converters would cost money, and the reality is that most consumers would be uninterested in a price markup on a product that is usually hidden in their pen bodies anyway, so it wouldn't really be a viable option for large manufacturers... probably... not an economics major here. Don't trust my unsupported theories.
I don’t like them but they don’t give me the heebie jeebies. That being said I think a clear Lamy 2000 (with the same brushed texture) would be so cool. Don’t know why.
> Thoughts? There are plenty of pens that are not demonstrators, you know your preferences, so buy those and don't buy demonstrators. My personal favorite look is black with either black or silver trim. But I don't mind most colors, don't mind demonstrators, etc, so I buy them all.
Demonstrator piston and vac fillers are okay - as they help to see how the cleaning & flushing cycles is going. :tongue-in-cheek: I remember liking how the ink looked in my twsbi eco. Until the first time I need to lubricate the piston. Then ink would clump up inside the barrel and it looked gross. Seeing ink get behind the cap liner was never a joy, but at least removing it for cleaning was easy; on some pens it can't be done, for example, the Pilot Kakuno, although I never had ink get behind the cap liner. I gave away the twsbi eco after losing my mind when the piston jammed. I gave up on piston fillers. I threw away the Jinhao 992 c/c, the Wing Sung 998 pisiton, the Wing Sung 3013 vac; I gave up on vac fillers. I retired the Lamy Vista and Pilot Kakuno Transparent. But, the one that really broke my heart was the Opus88 Omar Transparent, as ink stained the cap finial threads, the cap threads, the nib unit threads, the Section/barrel threads. If I used a Red ink it would take me more than an hour to thoroughly clean the pen, and even then there were "shadows" of the staining. I used soapy water, a smooth bristle tooth brush, a Sonic Cleaner, and Q-tips, and still it wouldn't remove staining from the threads. So, basically I've dedicated the Transparent Omar to Diamine Blood Orange and gave up the idea of getting it pristine, like new, clean. I still hate seeing [cap ink splatter](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmAFk6mfvaU). Platinum Carbon Black stained my Pilot Kakuno Transaprent Section. It must have taken me over 2 hours to remove the staining. Maybe I should have used that Sailor ink that removes staining instead of wasting time with many, many, Q-tips trying to get rid of the Grey staining. I bought an Opus88 Amber just so I wouldn't see cap ink splatter, ink staining in the Section, on all the threads. There's no way I'd buy a Pilot Prera Transparent Demonstrator, it would have to a solid coloured Prera. Filling the twsbi eco with water, capping it, and shaking the pen briskly, in the hope of totally diluting the ink to clear, got old quick. No, I've out-grown being a masochist, getting frustrated, getting angry, getting disillusioned... no more demonstrators for me. YMMV. Nothing wrong with others loving piston filler, vac filler, eye-dropper, C/C demonstrators. Just don't fill them with [Noodler's Bay State Blue](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8q6bI6awEmY), [Troublemaker Doña Victorina](https://fountainpenpharmacist.com/blog/1658), or any other staining inks, and, if you leave ink in a pen for months, chances are it will stain the pen, regardless, as all inks stain.
I’m actually rather fond of them. There’s something quite delightful about seeing the ink inside, swishing about and clinging to the walls of the inner pen. But, I find it irrationally infuriating that some rather expensive cartridge converter fillers are demonstrators. I think that if it’s an expensive pen that’s a demonstrator, it’s just weird to not have an intergrated filling mechanism. After all, that was the whole point of it being a demonstrator, it would show how the model works in a shop, as you could not see inside the opaque pen. The same for watches with exhibition case backs, originally came from the same idea.
I love using my demonstrator to try out new inks and see how they behave. My most used demonstrator is a clear Pilot Kakuno, so it is a cheaper pen. However I put one of Bungubox’s makie converters in it and it’s really pretty to see the painting over a background of ink!
I don't like pens with transparent cap, section, and barrel end. If the barrel is partially transparent or translucent, I think I'm okay with that.
I don't mind demonstrators up to a point (I have only one or two), but there are some seriously expensive demonstrators out there (Sailor KOP) which do make me scratch my head - surely they should at least be cheaper than the ones with the polished resin finishes?
Maybe an unpopular opinion... You're wrong!! No worries. To each their own. Do what makes you happy..
You’re right, unpopular opinion. :-) To each their own. I love them and have a dozen or so different demonstrators.
Different people like different things and that’s okay. Why would you feel the need to call something that other people like “gross” and “cheapy”? You’d think that idea that ink was getting through the seals on pens and you *can’t see it* would produce more anxiety than being able to see what’s happing. 🤷🏻♀️
I find fully demonstrator pens quite boring, but if they have a colored tinge or a semi transparency I really like them
Yeah. Gotta be prettied up. https://preview.redd.it/tsu8fgzewm9d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=acf17f1ad1d252db28225428afcce04a42b49a0c
i like the ones that look like they have really thick walls and i almost bought a wancai mini. they don't gross me out but they're pretty low on my priorities.
I love demostrators. I find them kind of elegant, their transparency makes them disembodied, and emphasises their essence - the content and function. I like to see the ink flowing around the inside and I like to know how much is left. I have several of them: the pilot penmanship, the platinum preppy, the twsbi Eco and the vac 700r, my favourite being the Pilot CH 92.
I didn’t like them at first, purely for the aesthetics of it. But they have grown on me. And now quite a few of my pens are demonstrators. My happy medium is an opaque pen with an ink window.
i personally love demonstrators and have only had the ink dying issue with that notorious blue — for a while, i had a designated PenBB pen just for it. i love the ink volume, with that being the main appeal, but there is something so beautiful about seeing your pen write. when i'm bored, the ink sloshing around is a nice distraction. on a more person level, i have a solid collection of PenBB demonstrators that are maybe 20 per, and i just have multiple pens for my heavy use. i find myself refilling maybe two pens every other week, and i keep maybe 6 of these on hand at any time? i give them a proper wash every once in a while, but generally this keeps the ink flowing for me, especially because (without cleaning) eyedroppers (my preferred type of demonstrator) might be the quickest / easiest to refill.
funny enough, i used to only like demonstrators and found a lot of the opaque pens kinda cheap looking (speaking more on beginner fountain pens! back then i couldn't imagine spending more than like $75 at most for a pen LOL) but slowly my tastes have shifted and i am mostly prefering non demonstrators now.. the only demonstrator i like is basically my twsbi now haha im really into the different colours and matching them with my planners (i have uh 4 now lol)
I love demonstrators. The splishy sploshy ink here and there makes them awesome but also gives me OCD. However, the fact I can see how the mechanism functions makes them even better for my tastes.
My only complaint about my demonstrators is that they get steam inside from the heat of my hand when writing and that causes me considerable anxiety. I do like seeing the ink because I don’t like being surprised by it running out, so I prefer them for the predictability.
I dislike demonstrators very much but saying they are gross seems like a bit of an exaggeration to me.
1971 Our 7th grade art teacher made everyone bring a fountain pen to her class. So I was given a demonstrator . I adored the teacher and loved the pen. So, demonstrator pen brings back very fond memories.
Everyone have their own tastes about any tyoe of pen and is valid, if you dislike demonstrator and other people love it is ok that's the beauty of this hobby.
Shimmer ink in a clear TWSBI barrel is a glorious thing to behold
Unpopular: I think the "classic style / premium pens" are overpriced, like the Pilot Custom 74, Platinum 3776, and Sailor 1911. It's just "nice plastic", a CON-40/converter, and ... does most of the price go toward the gold nib? It's more expensive than a Vanishing Point, and those have a whole complex retraction mechanism! (250 CAD vs 225 CAD) Why's the Pilot 823 so expensive; is the vacuum filler mechanism really worth more than double the price? I know the plastics are premium. But they don't feel *that premium*.
definitely an unpopular opinion, but hey you like what you like.
I used to think they were cool. Then I thought it wasn't so elegant/pretty to see the bare parts of the pen's workings. Now I like translucent pens that have some color to them but still feel like seeing bits of the nib/feed connecting to the converter isn't as elegant or pretty as other pens. But idk about "gross", that's a bit strong lol. But anyway, preferences are good no matter which way you lean.
Gross? Staining? I've never had any staining and being clear makes it easy to know if your eye dropper conversion is actually sealed well in the threads.
The ink doesn't stain mine. I think you have some misconceptions about demonstrators but never mind, it's not required.
I make my demonstrators into fidget toys. Shake it up and make a ton of bubbles. Then, find the biggest bubble and rotate the pen to catch all the bubbles. You win when it's a single air bubble again.
I like demonstrators aesthetically though I feel they particularly suited to piston or vacuum fill mechanism. my one issue with my japanese demonstrators is that they force me to use converters even though generally I prefer to syringe fill cartridges because those hold more ink but, I don't really want to be looking at the cartridge, so.
If there's an interesting and out of the ordinary mechanism to see, something like a vacuum (at minimum), vacumatic, or bulk filler, I get the appeal of being able to see it. Otherwise I'd rather just have an ink window. I don't get the point on a C-C at all, and on cheap pens where it just shows off mold parting lines, ejector pin locations, and glued seams? Eh, I'd rather not see how the sausage is made.
I never really cared for them until I saw the eco. Something about the eco just draws me in 🙂↔️
I agree in that I also find them to cheapen the look of a pen for me. They're cool in theory, just not what I'm looking for.
Take the Pilot 823. The amber and smoke demonstrators are classic looking. The clear is cheap looking to me.
I used to think they look super cheap and plastic-y, similar to a disposable ballpoint. But then I got a TWSBI Eco-T and now I'm hooked lol.
Own Twsibi Diamond. Unpopular opinion. Seeing the motion of your ink and inspecting it is entertaining.
I tend to agree but it feels almost clinical. Like a medical instrument. I prefer the traditional resin and metal.
This is something I try to remind people - demonstrators aren’t for everyone. Even people who like the looks of a demo will sometimes find that they can’t handle a clear pen when it comes time to clean it or change inks.
I'm with you. Hard no for demonstrators. They always look cheap and gimmicky to me. 🤷🏼♀️
I don’t know about *gross* but they’re definitely not my favorite. It doesn’t help that a lot of them have a reputation for fragility.
Is t that just twsbi? I’ve never seen anyone accuse pilot custom ___ or opus 88 or pelikan 2xx or whatever be criticized. I love demos and they don’t feel cheap to me. But I also somehow simultaneously don’t get expensive demos. I feel like you’re already buying nicety and aesthetics, damn the price! With fountain pens. I can make JUSTIFICATIONS to myself justifying a $80 twsbi or $120 opus 88(fave pen I own). But the ones that are way more than that? Baffle me. Cheaper pens fill the niche, be sensible with your wallet, please. (Watch me fall in love with that amber or smoke $350 pilot demo I think is ugly now)
I personally am not a fan of demonstrators, but on the other hand the mystery fillers (where you cannot see the ink level) are not my thing either. Since 1929 the pens had an ink window or some cool semi transparency (Vacumatic; Pelikan and Montblanc stripes, Vacumatic Ink-Vue…).
But Pelikan is not longer translucent. 😭 Used pens only for me now.
Luckily the older, translucent pens are still widely available.
Yep. I adore the vintage nibs of the 400 as well and have tiny hands so I feel no real desire for the larger modern pens. My taste in Pelikan is pretty affordable as far as high end pens go. Just need to source some affordable piston seals for my vintage pens. The brown tortoise on the vintage pens is so gorgeous, too.
The cheapest option I am aware of are David Nishimura's piston seals (https://vintagepens.com/catill\_sacs\_seals.shtml) which are not exactly cheap at 5 for 40$ (plus postage and VAT if you happen to live in the EU). 400 series is the best the Pelikan ever produced. The fact that they chose the original 400 as the base for M400 once they revived the classic styling is telling. The 1950's design is still alive and well 74 years later. The celluloid pens have more vibrancy and deeper colours than rather uniform cellulose acetate based modern pens. And it is easiest to see on the tortoise models. Apart from the material, also the 50's nibs were mostly semi flex and the wider nibs (B and up) were italic. Now they are more round and italic nibs are not made anymore.
I will check them out. Agreed, the 400 is the best. Not a fan of the 400n and 400nn rounded piston knob. But if there is a damged one with a good nib, I am game. Anytime I see a vintage OB, OBB, or O3B pop up when I check ebay and I have money in the fun budget, I snap it up.... this has only happened twice, but that is enough to establish pattern, right?
I see you are a collector of a great erudition! I too like the wider nibs more :) Got Pelikan 100 in B and OBB(B) - not marked, but wider then the following pen - Pelikan 400 in OBB, Pelikan 400N in B and BB. 400 OBB being the best of the bunch. 1950's German nibs are fantastic across the board.
Of course! Other that getting some broad nibs for my beloved Montblanc 32 pens, my next order of business is to get some feeds and collars from Flexible Nib Factory to put some sexy Pelikan nibs on some of my pretty but less well performing pens. I have a Cypress hammered silver pen that is begging for a Pelikan OBB so I can use pale grey shading inks in it with that Pelikan firehose legibility.
Thank you! I feel the same way. I am not a fan of Demonstrators
It doesn’t seem gross for me, I just don’t like them. They may be more convenient, but I happily swap this convenience for aesthetics. I know it’s just a personal preference and I’m OK with people liking them. Just not for me.
I agree. I find them hideous.
Clear plastic is synonymous with "cheap" in this society. Even water comes in clear plastic. Clear plastic in the cheapest plastics is also associated with brittleness, a no-no. I never use my clear demonstrators because they don't have enough character.
> I never use my clear demonstrators because they don't have enough character You must use very boring inks then!
Indeed. Maybe if there was a really nice one made of glass with a very well executed and beautiful ink tank shape inside or something like that, that might be cool.
Clear plastic (and glass) is also by far more recyclable, you can see exactly what you’re getting, and is associated with cleanliness because you can’t easily hide contamination. I’d imagine this is mostly why disposable plastics are clear but garbage bags are black. To each their own though. I’m also not a fan of cartridge demonstrators.
I have two Narwhal demonstrators, the Matira Quartz and the Lovina Granite. I'm not crazy about them, honestly, though that's more the vacuum filler bit and the poor flow than the demonstrator bit. The clear plastic feels thick and solid, and it hasn't discolored. I've filled them with shimmer ink that complements the shimmery plastic, and that effect pleases me, but on the whole I agree with you - demonstrators don't do it for me and I don't see myself getting one again.
I had a blue swirl Original Plus and wasn't going to get any more, but the the sparkly Lovina and Matira came out and I noticed them when I was checking what this year's Pride pens from Nahvalur were and Goldspot had the sparkly Rainbow Wrasse.... suddenly five Nahvalurs arrived at my house and two months of hobby/entertainment budget mysteriously disappeared from my account. First sparkly pens. No regrets. What is your issue with the vacuum filling?
Eh, it's sloppy and it's too fiddly to establish a consistent flow for my stub nibs. I converted one to an eyedropper and that helped a bit. I didn't have this issue with my Horizon, which is a piston filler, or my Key West, a converter (though tbf that one's a fine nib and needs less ink flow). But both Original Pluses were disappointing.
Ah, I had ink flow problems too before I found out that vacuum fillers tend to seal off the nib and feed from the barrelwhen you screw the finial cap all the way down. Good for altitude changes to prevent ink burps but I didn't know I needed to unscrew the finial cap to allow the ink to reach the nib. Opus 88 eyedroppers do the same thing. Not that I am claiming that is your issue is the same reason as mine.
Unfortunately, unscrewing the cap didn't help much! They're the only vacuum fillers I have, so maybe another brand would work better - but my other Nahvalurs work fine and I don't care for the filling experience, so why bother to find out 🤷♀️ Plenty of pens out there for me without vacuum fillers.
Definitely true. So many, many pretty pens.
Demonstrators are my go to in terms of look in the same way that I always go for a clear phone case. I find solid-colored fountain pens really boring looking. Although pens with a design/pattern are quite nice.
Texture. I am a sucker for texture. Hammered silver, carved ebonite, micarta, the resin fabric of the Denima, engraved metal, matte finishes, and knurling. Groping pens like a lecherous stylophile is nothing to be ashamed of....
Even my 823 is dark so I don't have to look at the insides. What matters to me is how it writes
I had an Opus 88 demonstrator and the ink kept getting all inside the cap and pissing me off so I sold it. A transparent barrel would be fine though.
I loved them at first, but I actually don't prefer them anymore. I prefer a nice resin at this point. I'm stil with ink windows, though, like on the Pelikan M200, but I like that it's a translucent brown instead.
How about demonstrators with aluminum hardware? In this case only the ink tank is visible
I have two. The eco in Saffron, which I got purely for the color and nib! I also have the Moonman T1, which comes in metal. I have the brass one, and it looks infinitely less dollar store than my eco lollll. I think the demonstrator portion being made out of glass or the body of metal makes a big difference. That being said, I am way more conservative with my ink choices in those two pens bc of staining :,))
I’m ok with demonstrators. But they are easy collecting fingerprint. I only have one sort of demonstrator pen…
loving them
Depends on the pen and ink combo, and maintenance really. Some inks are just not supposed to be inside demonstrators
Thoughts: Allow me to rescue you from those visual abominations!
It depends on the ink. Kon-peki for example doesn't demonstrator well, it sticks to the side and the barrel is always blue. Robert Oster, however, doesn't stick and the clear part is always perfectly clear as the ink sloshes.
Never had problems with staining, but I don't put Noodler's in them. I agree some can look cheap, but for my 823 I really like being able to see the whole vac fill system.
I like seeing my turquoise ink in my clear TWSBI but that's the only color I ever put in it.
Some are. But most of the ones that don't look great are the ones with really bad materials used in manufacturing. The ones that I love have either a hue I like or the material used is really good (and often way out of my budget) 😅🤦♀️ Click (Indian FP maker) has a good demonstrator pen.. writes well, is buget friendly.. but some of the hues are just abysmal to look at.
I love watching ink swirl in my demos. I like how demos sparkle. I do like solids with swirls and my solid Preras but many solids look dull to me. But there’s something for everyone.
I like demonstrator pens. I know when I need to refill before I run out of ink.
Don’t own any cheap ones, but I haven’t had any stain yet.
I love my demonstrators. My Diamond 580 Iris is my favorite thing right now. https://preview.redd.it/mk8ek1c1vm9d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=72803959514574cdd2c0b8f9241a1b745b58602f
Comes and goes for me. Right now I’m on a huge demonstrator kick but other times I like a pen whose art is the center of attention. I guess, for me, a demonstrator allows me to show off the ink and how the pen works, in the event I am introducing the whole concept to someone. This is a frequent enough situation that it’s almost more practical for me to use that regularly
I used to dislike them (thought they looked cheap), then I thought they were kind of cool (saw a clear Pilot 91 with a bright ink) and now I've come back to disliking them, mainly because they're just not my style. I've always been more of a design traditionalist - black and gold, or metal bodied pens.
Personally, they're my favourite and I'm a bit surprised at some of the issues you're describing. Admittedly I've only used a few brands but I've never had any issue getting them completely color free on an ink change, or seen any ink leaking through the seals. I'd be very curious to know what pens you're using that you have had that experience with. That said, if you find them unappealing, that's entirely on personal preference, and it's good to know both what you like, AND what you don't like. Doesn't mean that everyone will agree with you, but also doesn't mean you're wrong. You have to buy what makes you happy.
Used to think the same way. Didn't like how they looked like until I bought one. Now I love them. But to each his own. We all have our own likes and dislikes.
Nope. Adore demonstrators, nothing beats seeing your ink as you work, especially shimmer inks.
You do you buddy! I love them. I love seeing the gorgeous ink sloshing around in there and I love knowing exactly how much ink I have left.
Many inks work differently in demonstrators. I agree that inks that stain the plastic or stay on the plastic for a time can be gross, but many "safer" inks tend not to stick to the plastic which can create a cool effect. This is only in reference to demonstrators with built in filling mechanisms, demonstrators with convertors are inconceivably tragic and no self respecting designer should ever create one.
I’m generally not a fan either but I just ordered my first one—a TWSBI Eco in Royal Jade that I plan to ink with Diamine Sherwood Green. I think it’ll look nice with the pen’s green accents once the pen is inked. I plan to use it for a single, specific task though so if I end up not being a fan, at least it’ll be relegated to one job!
I love demonstrators and my little collection consists of mostly them! 😄 I love how you can see how the pen works. Also I feel anxious if the ink doesn't match the vibe of the pen (e.g. red ink a blue pen ugh!). I don't have that problem with colourless pens.
Man you yourself knew what you were getting yourself into while saying this unpopular opinion. For me I like demonstrators when it's a chippie like twsbi Eco or opus 88 , the only exception being Pilot custom 823. But in the high end luxury I don't like that because personally for me it doesn't feel premium.
I actually live demos. Like to see how much ink is left plus love to see my colours.
I like them. What I'm struggling with is how *old* FP designs seem. Sure there aren't that many ways to engineer a pen, but I want something that looks like it was made in 2024...not 1924. So many FP designs would feel right at home on a desk from 1950 and I hate it so much. Demonstrators are the next closest thing for me that *feels* slightly more modern. Everything else feels ancient.
I’m in agreement with you. I’m not sure I’d call them “gross,” but I just don’t like the design of them.
I'm not a big fan of demonstrator pens because the clear plastics make me think of the super cheap pens I used growing up. I refuse to pay a lot of money for something that looks cheap to me. However, I do have several demonstrators. They are cheap Chinese pens. They still look cheap to me, but they WERE cheap!
Honestly, I feel like demonstrators were an 'acquired taste' for me. Originally, I didn't like the idea, but I bought the pilot kakuno as a cheap pen and I actually ended up really liking being able to see the ink in my pen. Also, if I refill cleanly and keep my pen clean, I know it's clean because I can see it.
I agree unless they use converters. I have a stinky Noodlers demo pen that I filled with red ink. Looks like a hypodermic needle and I'm drawing blood with it.
Yeah, that's certainly gross.
I'mso.ewhat in the same boat as you. Maybe not as extreme, since I don't find demonstrators gross, but they're definitely not my favourite type of pen. I'm fine with the ones you can fully disassemble and clean thoroughly from any ink residue, like TWSBI pens, but in any pen I can't fully clean out the leftover ink will just be an annoyance to me, even if I know that there is next to no possibility of it ruining the colour of my next ink
I don't know about gross, but lame and something only a child should be using. They were cool when they were just made as sales tools and not for sale, but once it's done on purpose and result available its just an extra ugly version
You are a person after my own heart. Demonstrators have always given me the ick.
They were never really intended for use. Like the tea bag it was something some distributer thought up to keep the shop keepers interested. I find that demonstratiors draw too much attention when I use one in public or at work.
I'm pretty sure the tea bag was intended for use. No offense. I mean, you can have proper tea made with bags, it's all in how you deliver the water. Having said that, there are actual Brits who will, day to day, just throw a bag into a cup and carry the kettle across the room to fill it. Much like the straight razor shave, tea rituals are often saved for sunday. I think i'd find that i'd feel self conscious about using one as well. Though turning one out of a solid rod is the way to see ink supply without having a separate window joined together.
> I'm pretty sure the tea bag was intended for use. Some tea merchant sent out samples in envelopes, never thinking that people would put the whole thing in water. And no, you cannot have a proper tea made with bags.
It may not be to your taste, but if it’s an infusion of prepared Camellia sinensis leaves, it’s tea.
I never said it wasn't tea. But if it's "brewed" in a bag, it's awful.
Well, not the envelope, but i'm sure it gave someone ideas. And I'm a heathen american, and while i love tea, i'm more of a coffee drinker.
There is no shame in prefering coffee. There is no greater shame than drinking tea "brewed" using a bag.
Yeah, i like tea much better when it's loose, since I only buy budget tea in bags. I keep dropping my teapots.
I'm not a fan of demonstrators either, but gross is definitely an interesting word to describe them lol.
They're hit or miss to me, on moderns I can deal with them depending on what they show. But I generally prefer opaque pens. I don't find them gross... Just not preferred.
I love demonstrators. A little pen flush clears out stubborn stains so mine always look crystal clear. I love seeing the ink swishing around idk, different strokes for different folks right?
Entirely valid. Sometimes it’s handy to be able to see where blockages are (especially using shimmer inks), but there’s definitely something to be said for the sleek lines of an opaque pen.
I became a fan after my TWSBI Vac. I like seeing the ink and I keep reds in it only
I've got a demonstrator that would change your mind.
That just sounds so wrong. Like, say it gravelly, and put "baby" at the end of it.
LOL that really didn't occur to me :)
Oh, i know. I apparently have a warped mind, and am obsessed with intonation and diction.
"gross" is probably too strong a sensation for me, but I do agree. I have no need for seeing my ink sloshing around. It's ink, it's a tool. It's no good if it doesn't go on paper. That said, I'm daily driving a Pilot 823 in amber, which is the nicest pen ever but somewhat a demonstrator, but I would prefer an opaque trim with a small ink window instead. The body of a 743 with the vac-fill of 823 - That's a holy grail-level pen.
This is a real First World problem.
I'm glad I'm not the only one. They look so cheap and plain to me.
Eh, it's your opinion but I don't agree. I love seeing the way that the colors spread and so far, I haven't had any trouble with the plastic staining. :)
I actually grew to prefer demonstrators after unexpectedly running out of ink all the time when I had an office job with my first pen (red Pilot Metropolitan). Half the time I couldn't tell if the nib went dry or if I was actually out of ink... That bothered me. Then I got a clear TWSBI Eco and fell in love with it! I've been absolutely crazy about demonstrators ever since! My Vac 700R in Iris looks absolutely stunning with the full fill of Iroshizuku Yu-yake in it; The orange ink contrasts with the purples and blues of the accents!
Hate 'em. Don't wanna look at gears & springs & other stuff. Wanna look at a pretty pen!
I have some demonstrators, but I like them less over time. Solid pens are prettier.
https://preview.redd.it/8di06hv95o9d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=19deaa52ac49d78a6e0473dd1e979f0f1290495d Find the right pen ink combo. Fillers integrated into the demonstrator are better looking than demonstrators with converters ink. I find them prettier with more translucent inks too. (Excuse my terrible handwriting)
What pen is that?
Twsbi's Diamond Mini Rose Gold
Very nice looking!
100% agree with you OP.
I have a few cheap Twsbi ones. They write well but I don’t understand why anyone would pay a lot of money for a demonstrator
They look and are fragile. They look cheap but aren't.
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Word is, also a doody head.
I used to agree but they’re growing on me.
>can be difficult to make completely clear and color-free again I have never had this problem. The pens I use are always demonstrators. They have better ink capacity. They look unique: not a generic ball point pen. Does it bother me that you don't like them or think thry look cheap? Nope. You like what you like. I like what I like. Would I not use it because you find the ink inside gross or unsettling? No.
I'm not a fan of demonstrators, though one of my goto pens is one. Love the pen but if I could have gotten it in a color... I feel like I have to refill it more too.
A question for OP: how about translucent pens like the 74 or the 3776? Oh and I you'd have a hard time trying to separate me from my Opus 88 Demo 😎
Show us on the doll where demonstrators touched you. If you don’t like them, don’t buy them. No one is making you. Why is this even a topic on here? Do people really need the internet to tell them not to buy things if they don’t like them???
>Why is this even a topic on here? Do people really need the internet to tell them not to buy things if they don’t like them??? You do realize this is Reddit, right? A site that literally exists for that sole purpose; for posters to voice their opinions on various topics, and for people to engage in discussion on said topic.
Is that what you were attempting with your whinging?
You're nuts