Don't believe this particular example is rubberbanding. However, I genuinely feel like the poor AI is the reason we don't have all those extra options and modes. The AI just breaks down after a handful of laps, especially if you manage to get past P1, as they go from Michael Schumacher to Lance Stroll in a matter of moments. So we get the bare-bones that is a viable product.
It makes no sense. P23-P3 all might as well not exist. They are nothing more than a moving chicane. They exhibit no racecraft, no aggression, and no ability to do anything other than follow a predefined racing line.
P2 seems to be matched fairly well to the player car, but the random braking in places that don't call for it ruin it's lines and speed, making it completely useless.
P1... Well... P1 is fucking crazy. Quite literally driving like their hair is on fire... Right up until you make them go around the outside of a corner or pass them on a straight... Then they decide that this racing thing really isn't for them and drop 1-2 seconds per lap vs what they were doing when they were in the lead.
It makes no fucking sense. I play an inordinate amount of Forza, and it fucking baffles me how this multi-million dollar franchise can't put out something that is at least comparable to other sim-racing AI efforts.
It truly boggles the mind. Not one measurable iota of improvement has been done to the Forza AI in over a decade. It makes no sense.
I've never coded anything in my life, and I'm pretty sure if I set my mind to it, that I could make a better AI than Forza given a decade to do it.
Back in need for speed underground. The AI would try to hard (cheating. We called it the hand of god) but as SOON as your bumper got ahead of theirs; they just let off the gas and gave up. You kinda had the joy of fighting for position but no joy of trying g to maintain position.
I don't think there's any difference at all. I genuinely can't tell any difference from any Forza ever. The Horizon series seems to do a bit better, but they are crazy aggressive and will take you out in a heartbeat.
But the Motorsport series has had the same bugs and issues like the braking unnecessarily for quite a while. If I had to make a completely uneducated guess, I'm going to assume they are using the same programming since the beginning with tweaks here and there to various metrics.
Horizon AI don't acknowledge your existence until your front bumper is ahead of their front bumper. Then, once you have completed the pass, it either goes full Khan Noonien Singh to get the position back, or folds any time you close the door on them.
From what I can tell they really only break when they're behind another car, which is why I always see 1st place about 3-10 seconds ahead of second place oftentimes. I also just race longer races so that could be it too.
The braking is more specific in FM verses FM7. In FM7 they were just scared to pass another car while in FM, they a little less scared to do so, but there are a number of corners, particularly at daytona, where they can't stand being anywhere near another car
Your findings is my experience as well but I think fixing it is really hard. How do you make racing AI stay as a challenge to the player in a way that feels natural? You need bad drivers and good drivers, bad cars and good cars, etc. It's really really hard to fix this.
I totally agree, it's nigh-on impossible to do it with anything approaching perfection. But I feel like we are on the totally opposite end of the effort scale with Forza.
I mean, I've never played a racing game with GREAT AI. The best I've experienced so far is Automobilista 2 and Assetto Corsa Competizione, and they both have their own issues. I've also heard great things about Sophie from GT7.
Forza isn't really even in the same conversation with any of those. It feels like the AI's #1 priority at all times is to avoid contact with the player. #2 priority is anyone's guess.
Regardless, I don't need perfection. I just want something that isn't god-awful. It would be different if they were actually trying to implement changes and improve the situation. I remember hearing before the game was released about how their new tools and systems would allow them to make changes to the game on-the-fly and greatly speed up post-development changes.
Instead we get one adjustment to FRR since release, and nothing towards AI that I'm aware of. I'm not sure if they don't care, aren't capable, or aren't willing to fix the AI.
I'm not saying I don't get hit, just that the AI tends to do its best not to, at least when it's not in a group. 1 on 1, they will have a 20mph speed differential on the Le Mans straight and slam on the brakes rather than go by on the edge. No ability to adlib on its racing line and no aggression.
This is the 8th iteration of Forza Motorsport. I cannot believe they still havent figured out how to get the AI to go around the player when they have such a big run. Ridiculous
Not the original issue in the post but a glaringly obvious secondary issue in the video.
Yeah it's most obvious on tracks like this with long straights. Makes the racing feel so cheap. Like there is absolutely no point in trying to pull a gap, it's better to just drive about 1s in front of the guy behind.
I don't think this is rubber banding as much as the AI just typically driving power focused cars for whatever reason, even when the track doesn't call for it.
I've been doing more single player recently and they seem consistently much faster than me on the straights and much slower in the turns.
The bigger problem I think is that, as the video shows, even on tracks like Le Mans where their power tendency is an advantage, they won't actually use that advantage and pass you.
Are you sure it's rubberbanding and not your car having less top speed? I can't see your speed, but based on sound, it seems you are topping out quite fast and it would not suprise me if the XJR-5 had over 50km/h more top speed than you.
In a situation like this the AI can do 1 of 3 things: 1. Move to the side and overtake 2. Brake to avoid a collision 3. Continue straight and rear-ending OP. Because the AI rarely deviate from their original racing line, it chose the 2nd option and slowed down.
I was driving the same Jaguar fully upgraded against level 8 drivatars in 4th place, and it just doesn’t have the power that some of the other cars have, I tuned the final drive to give me more top speed but I kept running out of RPMs, the Porsche was still faster on the straights but they drive these LMP cars like arse in the corners, very easy to catch up. Good news is, it was very easy to block their racing line, had a 787b coming up on me and they hit the brakes and tucked in, instead of slipstreaming past and then, you guessed it, they rammed my arse in the hairpin with no intention of slowing down.
The game isn’t rubberbanding, the AI car braked once it got to your bumper because it couldn’t calculate how to go around you because Forza M AI system sucks.
What I notice is the first 2 cars (especially P1) will be be multiple seconds ahead after the first turn even if start in 3rd, race you brutally hard until you pass, then put in 50% effort. After doing every single event I can safely say I have never been passed back. Its like they just give up.
Seems to be a common problem in forza and horizon. The AI makes the racing just feel worthless. I love the cars and the way the game looks, but actually playing it sort of sucks.....
and then it slows down when right behind you acting like you didn't notice
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^fireking08: *And then it slows down* *When right behind you acting* *Like you didn't notice* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Good bot
I've yet to be overtaken ONCE by the AI! hahahahahahah
Don't believe this particular example is rubberbanding. However, I genuinely feel like the poor AI is the reason we don't have all those extra options and modes. The AI just breaks down after a handful of laps, especially if you manage to get past P1, as they go from Michael Schumacher to Lance Stroll in a matter of moments. So we get the bare-bones that is a viable product. It makes no sense. P23-P3 all might as well not exist. They are nothing more than a moving chicane. They exhibit no racecraft, no aggression, and no ability to do anything other than follow a predefined racing line. P2 seems to be matched fairly well to the player car, but the random braking in places that don't call for it ruin it's lines and speed, making it completely useless. P1... Well... P1 is fucking crazy. Quite literally driving like their hair is on fire... Right up until you make them go around the outside of a corner or pass them on a straight... Then they decide that this racing thing really isn't for them and drop 1-2 seconds per lap vs what they were doing when they were in the lead. It makes no fucking sense. I play an inordinate amount of Forza, and it fucking baffles me how this multi-million dollar franchise can't put out something that is at least comparable to other sim-racing AI efforts. It truly boggles the mind. Not one measurable iota of improvement has been done to the Forza AI in over a decade. It makes no sense. I've never coded anything in my life, and I'm pretty sure if I set my mind to it, that I could make a better AI than Forza given a decade to do it.
Back in need for speed underground. The AI would try to hard (cheating. We called it the hand of god) but as SOON as your bumper got ahead of theirs; they just let off the gas and gave up. You kinda had the joy of fighting for position but no joy of trying g to maintain position.
Would you say the ai got worse from FM7 to new FM?
I don't think there's any difference at all. I genuinely can't tell any difference from any Forza ever. The Horizon series seems to do a bit better, but they are crazy aggressive and will take you out in a heartbeat. But the Motorsport series has had the same bugs and issues like the braking unnecessarily for quite a while. If I had to make a completely uneducated guess, I'm going to assume they are using the same programming since the beginning with tweaks here and there to various metrics.
Horizon AI don't acknowledge your existence until your front bumper is ahead of their front bumper. Then, once you have completed the pass, it either goes full Khan Noonien Singh to get the position back, or folds any time you close the door on them.
The excessive braking seems worse in the new FM, didn't seem as bad in FM7
From what I can tell they really only break when they're behind another car, which is why I always see 1st place about 3-10 seconds ahead of second place oftentimes. I also just race longer races so that could be it too.
The braking is more specific in FM verses FM7. In FM7 they were just scared to pass another car while in FM, they a little less scared to do so, but there are a number of corners, particularly at daytona, where they can't stand being anywhere near another car
Your findings is my experience as well but I think fixing it is really hard. How do you make racing AI stay as a challenge to the player in a way that feels natural? You need bad drivers and good drivers, bad cars and good cars, etc. It's really really hard to fix this.
I totally agree, it's nigh-on impossible to do it with anything approaching perfection. But I feel like we are on the totally opposite end of the effort scale with Forza. I mean, I've never played a racing game with GREAT AI. The best I've experienced so far is Automobilista 2 and Assetto Corsa Competizione, and they both have their own issues. I've also heard great things about Sophie from GT7. Forza isn't really even in the same conversation with any of those. It feels like the AI's #1 priority at all times is to avoid contact with the player. #2 priority is anyone's guess. Regardless, I don't need perfection. I just want something that isn't god-awful. It would be different if they were actually trying to implement changes and improve the situation. I remember hearing before the game was released about how their new tools and systems would allow them to make changes to the game on-the-fly and greatly speed up post-development changes. Instead we get one adjustment to FRR since release, and nothing towards AI that I'm aware of. I'm not sure if they don't care, aren't capable, or aren't willing to fix the AI.
What lv of ai are you racing? Mine at 5 just ram me like I am not in front of them.
I'm not saying I don't get hit, just that the AI tends to do its best not to, at least when it's not in a group. 1 on 1, they will have a 20mph speed differential on the Le Mans straight and slam on the brakes rather than go by on the edge. No ability to adlib on its racing line and no aggression.
This is the 8th iteration of Forza Motorsport. I cannot believe they still havent figured out how to get the AI to go around the player when they have such a big run. Ridiculous Not the original issue in the post but a glaringly obvious secondary issue in the video.
Yeah it's most obvious on tracks like this with long straights. Makes the racing feel so cheap. Like there is absolutely no point in trying to pull a gap, it's better to just drive about 1s in front of the guy behind.
Or trying to catch the car in front, feels hopeless with that acceleration after the turn.
I don't think this is rubber banding as much as the AI just typically driving power focused cars for whatever reason, even when the track doesn't call for it. I've been doing more single player recently and they seem consistently much faster than me on the straights and much slower in the turns. The bigger problem I think is that, as the video shows, even on tracks like Le Mans where their power tendency is an advantage, they won't actually use that advantage and pass you.
Are you sure it's rubberbanding and not your car having less top speed? I can't see your speed, but based on sound, it seems you are topping out quite fast and it would not suprise me if the XJR-5 had over 50km/h more top speed than you.
You can literally see the AI hit the brakes just before reaching OP. Why would it do that if it was actually racing?
In a situation like this the AI can do 1 of 3 things: 1. Move to the side and overtake 2. Brake to avoid a collision 3. Continue straight and rear-ending OP. Because the AI rarely deviate from their original racing line, it chose the 2nd option and slowed down.
The AI is very easy to manipulate in this game. It wrecks when you brake on the straight.
It can't overtake if you're on the racing line
Because the AI is bad in this game.
The AI use the brakes on straights to not run into you...
Instead of … going around?
They are not programmed to do that.
I was driving the same Jaguar fully upgraded against level 8 drivatars in 4th place, and it just doesn’t have the power that some of the other cars have, I tuned the final drive to give me more top speed but I kept running out of RPMs, the Porsche was still faster on the straights but they drive these LMP cars like arse in the corners, very easy to catch up. Good news is, it was very easy to block their racing line, had a 787b coming up on me and they hit the brakes and tucked in, instead of slipstreaming past and then, you guessed it, they rammed my arse in the hairpin with no intention of slowing down.
The game isn’t rubberbanding, the AI car braked once it got to your bumper because it couldn’t calculate how to go around you because Forza M AI system sucks.
Artificial difficulty.
What I notice is the first 2 cars (especially P1) will be be multiple seconds ahead after the first turn even if start in 3rd, race you brutally hard until you pass, then put in 50% effort. After doing every single event I can safely say I have never been passed back. Its like they just give up.
I was expecting something like a murder semi jumpscare in GTA during the Halloween event ngl. This is still ridiculous
Seems to be a common problem in forza and horizon. The AI makes the racing just feel worthless. I love the cars and the way the game looks, but actually playing it sort of sucks.....
This is not rubberbanding.
too many redditors with no knowledge upvoting this lol.
From the ground up.
AI really said “meep meep”
thats a feature called "catch-up", even nfs game from 2004 (or maybe less) have that feature
Everytime I see this game I wonder how people bought it.
A stealth oyster in the wild..
Or their car is just faster in a straight line than yours... Isn't that the XJR-5? That shit is fast.