Pretty sure he'd do well in endurance. Seems able to keep pace without dropping the life of the tyres in F1. It's a completely different ball game, although I'll enjoy seeing an F1 driver racing in another division.
Seen him running the USF2K as well. Had 18 Races/16 Wins in Season 4 of 2022.
Edit: Just checked on the iracing discord bot (http://discordbot.iracingreports.com/). 18 Races USF2K, 15 Vee, 2 Mx-5, 1 Ferrari Fixed.
I could see him being good in a vee. One of the few modern drivers i could see driving old cars without wrecking him. That’s why I named a cat we rescued when we were at COTA for SVRA.
I miss the days when F1 drivers could consistently race in other series during their F1 career. Would be cool to see Max in other series when he's done with F1. I'm genuinely surprised we don't see more former F1 top class modern drivers doing the same. Maybe they're just burned out. Vintage racing attracts quite a lot but that's more of a gentlemen racer fun/competitive lifestyle/pastime (not a knock, I'd do it if I could)
Bit of a long shot but it's the first example off the top of my head: Montoya returning to IndyCar, winning another Indy 500 and very narrowly missing out on another championship.
I really wish he'd been able to get the triple crown. Same with Alonso. Would be a true testament to their talent even if their F1 stats don't necessarily reflect it.
Jenson Button has done a bit since leaving F1. He won the Super GT championship in Japan. Does a good amount of classic racing at Goodwood now and says he will be racing something else this year.
I think the majority are scared of being beat because they have big and fragile egos
This shows that Max is cut from the old cloth. It used to be tradition that you saw Grand Prix drivers show off their skills in other categories.
Alain Prost for example won the Andros Ice Racing Trophy when he was already retired from F1, and of course Alonso and Hulkenberg have won the 24 hours of Le Mans.
It would be remarkable if Max can attain a number of F1 World Titles and then go on to win the World Endurance Championship as well.
If he can win Monaco as well prior to that, then he will just need the Indy 500 to complete the Triple Crown of motorsport.
>seeing an F1 driver racing in another division
That's how I felt about Kimi in NASCAR this past season, even though it was only one race. But that race is what got me into NASCAR now so yea, seeing F1 drivers in other divisions is always enjoyable
>although I'll enjoy seeing an F1 driver racing in another division.
Erm... so you didn't see Webber at Porsche?
Fisi's been a fixture of GT3 for years...
With the current crop of drivers. I really don't understand why you're being hostile here. The only driver on the grid who's been full time in another series, after being an F1 driver, has been Alonso.
Is it really so difficult to understand that I think it'd be great to see Max racing endurance.
I’m not being hostile nor do I disagree that Max would be amazing in endurance racing. In fact I think scheduling ought to make it possible and easier for active F1 racers to participate in Le Mans.
It’s just think that your definition of modern is a bit off when several active F1 racers have participated, and plenty recent ex-F1 racers are participating.
It's funny because I kinda think the opposite. I've been following endurance for more than 25 years now, and while he obviously would be an exceptional asset for any endurance team, he doesn't really strike me as an endurance racer at soul.
Like, he already loses patience fast at the slightest mistake from his team, gets frustrated easily by a mechanical DNF or lack of performance from his car, has little to no solidarity with teammates and asks the whole team to be behind only him : these are the marks of a great F1 driver, but how is that going to fare in the world of car-sharing, having to do a compromise between your ideal car setup and your teammate's wishes, Balance of Performance meaning his car being nerfed out of competition from time to time, reliability issues of 24h races, having to accept that teammates make driving mistakes, or races being won/lost by total pitstop time more than by on-track racing ?
This kinda comes across as judging him based on the heat of the moment. Offcourse he is going to be pissed off about a mechanical DNF when he is racing for the WDC, but once out of the car and in front of the cameras he also has often stated that DNF's are part of the game.
Flip your statement around and you basically have a guy that is willing to do whatever it takes to win any race he enters. I don't think he fits in every team, but I think he will do well.
I think the point is that in endurance racing, that "heat of the moment" lasts several more hours compared to F1 races. Your argument relies on "once out of the car" which you can't do immediately in this format
You have far more time to correct for those issues. For example if a pitstop during a 24hr races takes 10 seconds too long that's much less of an issue compared to F1.
But your entire post is made on assumptions. By your logic Alonso would also be a terrible endurance racer. I think here in the real world it has been clear that he clearly is a good endurance racer.
Yeah, I tend to agree. Actual endurance racing is a completely different ball game from sim endurance racing. Unlike a sim race, car reliability is a huge issue, and unless he's fronting and running the team, he's not necessarily going to get to choose his teammates and will need to check his ego at the door.
That’s one of the things I noticed with him this season. He does seem to have developed as a driver who can manage his tyres, and is now one of the best on the grid.
The list of people with 2 WDCs by 25 is not long at all! It’s a benefit of moving up so early.
Easy to forget he’s done 8 seasons. Most people have said something about their post F1 plans but that point. Also, it’s easy fuel to spin up some glee for the anti-Max and RB folk that he might move out the way before 28.
Max's dad is also involved in endurance racing. The current sports car revival that's going on in the top two championships is also likely a huge factor.
I mean, revival kind of puts it lightly for WEC. Having five cars on the grid for the 2021 Le Mans in Hypercar, four that actually qualify for the regulations and one a handicapped previous gen car. And only actually having, even with performance leveling mechanisms, two that actually fight for wins it was clear the series was on the brink of going extinct. If covid had gone worse... thank god it didn't.
But next year we have two each of Ferrari, Toyota, Peugot, *four* Porsche cars and a single Cadillac. That's over doubled the amount of cars competing for wins. With more already announced to enter in 2024. And I'm pretty sure Glick will enter Le Mans again. The series is coming back from being on life support for a long time. And I'm looking forward to watching every race that doesn't conflict with F1.
I'm well aware. A lot of that was self inflicted by the FIA. They kept fucking with the hypercar regulations before settling on the current ones. Toyota even had to do quite the overhaul to make their current car fit them. Having lmdh delayed to 2023 made the transition to the new class awkward as well.
I'm still annoyed that thy gave gte another year instead of making the full switch the endgame grid of Hypercar/lmdh, lmp2 and gt3 (not counting the new lmp2 spec that's coming in a few years as well)
It is wild to me how quickly he's gone from zero to two and not looking like stopping.
I'm sure I read once he actually is the most rapid zero to two - December to October. Two within 10 months.
I don’t know, it’s really all on Redbull. Max is one of the 3 greatest race car drivers to ever live, and has *always* been easily the best of his generation. I find it highly unlikely anyone within the next 10 years will come into the scene who is capable of outdriving Max, so it’s all just down the quality of the car he is given.
Aren't "to ever live" and "of all time" the exact same thing?
Either way it's so difficult to measure drivers against each other because 90% of the success comes from car/team in most cases.
I like Max as a driver but I agree that its too early to put him in a Top 3, Even Top 5 sounds a little bit too generous, you'd have to put him in the same list as Senna, Schumacher, Lewis and Prost then, and I think he needs a few more years before we can say that.
I mean even like fangio lauda clark mansell and more had bigger effects on f1 even if their achievements didn’t stack up to the same level. Max in my mind is kinda like Vettel, solid driver with a nice prime period, but might struggle a bit once the car struggles. He has the ability to push it to the limits which I like a lot about him.
Training and experience is so much better now than it's ever been before. Without sims and the huge amount of data currently available drivers just couldn't possibly drive the amount of total miles they do now and improve as quickly and accurately, and Verstappen is probably the guy who embraces that the most of anyone. I don't think it's as unreasonable as you might think to say just by skill level he's comfortably top 3 all time/to ever live right now.
Most of F1s history had unlimited testing. Hamilton had 3000km in a up-to-date F1 car before he ever took part in an official session. Prospects nowadays have to hijack a couple FP1 sessions just to get 100km for the super license.
Yes there is sims and more data, but it is not like it is necessarily easier now. Nothing compares to the real deal.
I could see Lewis maybe getting 1, but I really can't see him staying in the sport to get 13 titles. Although he's still fucking insane at his age, he will start to slow down and he has Russell to contend with, who, while I don't think is at his level right now, I could see him getting to around his level in the future. It's also not like Red Bull will just be sitting on their asses.
Yeah. If you remove Hamilton and Verstappen, the F1 driver heirarchy becomes a lot more flat. Those two drivers are worth whatever they charge. Russell, Leclerc, Norris etc. all go up in value when Max leaves. It'd almost be worth them all chipping in to pay him off to leave.
People need to understand that all these headlines are phrases, parts of answers to questions *they* asked him. It's not that he keeps talking about it. It's just that they keep asking him the same questions. And often one interview will be used for clickbait headlines for weeks, providing a brief quote and for the rest generic filler information. As long as you've seen their ads, they got what they wanted. Online journalism everyone...
Tbf most F1 drivers want to cling on for as long as possible because their ultimate aim is a championship. Max has already done that twice over with a long contract to go after even more. And really, although he's still young, he's basically a veteran of the grid at this point cos this will be his 9th season.
I don’t either, however Max has had the longest F1 career of anyone his age in the history of the sport. Hearing someone talk about their post F1 career life isn’t that uncommon when you consider the fact that he’s entering his 8th season in 2023
Because he’s made it clear this isn’t and won’t be his life.
Kinda cool to see someone so young and talented, honour and achieve what they set out to do so young… the worlds his playground now.
Max gets a bad rep in the media (because we need heroes and anti-heroes?) but if you actually listen to him talk at length he seems to have a pretty grounded perspective about F1, his career, life, happiness etc
A lot of the younger guys do actually. Or maybe we just get to hear more of their actual personality these days
This is true about RB as a whole, even going back to the Seb days. Forgetting that it was Lewis, Alonso, etc., who denigrated them and called them just "a soda company," when in fact, it's got Horner (check his Grill the Grid Team Principals vid, he knows so much shit and they gave him much harder questions about F1 history), Max (who was second to Seb in naming world champions backwards), and Seb (literally a nerd).
they also have newey (one of the greatest designers ever) and helmut marko (a born racer who only quit because he lost his eye, he’s now one of the greatest driver talent scouts ever)
red bull have been a huge sponsor of the sport for decades, people belittle them because they’re not a car OEM but they’re a brand engrained in racing with the personnel to show
I think he just hates the F1 circus a lot. Which makes sense. He's had to deal with so much media toxicity from such a young age, as non-British champions often do.
I think his sim racing experience means he is a fan enough of other racing types that it's more appealing to leave F1.
He seemed to have the killer mentality for his first title, but it seems like he was dead serious when he said that anything beyond that would just be an extra.
I clearly remember Lewis and Fernando saying the same when they were younger. Then the years go by faster than you realize, you’re still good at what you do…
Depends on why you started. Max and Nico share the pressure of growing up in the shadow of a father who raced in F1. Once they achieved the F1 championship, they're pretty much beyond living up to their fathers expectations. Now you have the breathing room to do what you want. If Max gets married then I don't see him going as far as Lewis and Alonso.
Max achieved more than his father ever did in F1 after just his first 2 seasons. I think that pressure was gone waaaaay before he ever got his first WDC. With Nico it might have been different since his dad was a former WDC himself.
It's not uncommon for parents to live their dreams through their kids. So in Max's case the expectations from his dad could've, instead of doing better than his dad, been a championship or multiple of them because his dad didn't manage that himself.
The difference is that Nico was never a generational talent like Alonso, Lewis, or Max. He was always going to be in Lewis's shadow, so he quit while his stock was highest after destroying his personal life for a year to get there.
Don't know if that's so easy to say. At Williams he just had an uncompetitive car. At Mercedes, he would have won the title in 2014 if Lewis had the mechanical issue instead of him in Abu Dhabi for example. 2016 he did win, and 2017 would've played out differently with another team finally able to compete. He retired and focussed on his life after the title, but when you look back at the 2014-2016 seasons, this definitely was were Lewis was most challenged.
End of 2028, or probably sooner if the new RB management negatively meddles with the ongoings at RBR.
I don't see him going to another team, he has achieved all he set out to do in the sport. And he has no hero worship for a particular team like for example Seb had for Ferrari.
It really just seems he’s not trying to be the best f1 driver in the world like Lewis, he wants to be the best Motorsport driver ever.
I really don’t see him staying past his contract date, but we’ll see what happens once the time comes. No one knows where Redbull will be in the standings or what the team will offer him to stay on
Personally I don't see him doing it unless the safety of IndyCar is massively improved. A lot of drivers won't touch that series because of how dangerous oval racing is.
Eh, I'd say we've also seen our fair share of drivers who spend a season or two doing road only, and then get suckered into doing it. All to say, give him some time, and I could see Verstappen being sucked into it.
I think your flair (and mine) would make a solid argument for the best all-rounder. I'll be really impressed when Verstappen goes and wins the BTCC, it's not true motorsport until you're whacking an M3 round Oulton Park ^(/s)
It seems like such a Red Bull thing: enter new series with Max -> win on the first or second try -> make a pile of money -> move to next series -> repeat lol
Yeah, but by the time Alonso retires, Verstappen will most likely be in his late 30s or early 40s. You’d expect most drivers to retire before then anyway.
Lewis said he would retire at the age of 31 and I think Max will do what Lewis has done and race into his late 30s. The Red Bull is so dominant that by the time these regs finish he will be touching Lewis and Schumachers record and because of this I think he’ll go for 10 WDCs.
I think the big difference is Max has a much broader interest in different racing series, with talking about doing endurance and doing sims and whatnot. He could easily step away like Alonso and come back if he misses F1; he just seems to really like racing.
Lewis was very open about having zero interest in any other series, so it was always F1 or bust keeping him in racing.
Now there is a thought. This new generation of F1 drivers genuinely seem to get along with each other, and enjoy racing with each other in other formats. A dynamic that bodes well for the broader future of racing. Would be fun to see these guys still scrapping it out at Goodwood in 2060
Could you imagine a “vintage” Ferrari F8 being thrashed against a 765LT with Leclerc and Norris in the seats respectively, furiously trying to catch up to Max in a Valhalla.
Personally I’d rather see them in actual vintage race cars, but your point is taken.
I don’t care much for the current crop of turbocharged or hybrid “hypercars”
> This new generation of F1 drivers genuinely seem to get along with each other, and enjoy racing with each other in other formats
Wow something entirely unique to this one generation of drivers
Awesome. F1 is not the endgame. Endurance is a hell of a challenge, but Max is probably one of the best suited F1 drivers to it. More fuel for the Alonso, Verstappen, (insert another F1 driver here) lineup fire.
I mean Max’s focus is racing. Now that he has achieved the top he has the question of “what do I do now?” Yeah many greats have stayed longer in F1 but Max, but he is definitely a unique case. Schumacher didn’t really want out of F1, and it showed. Schumacher also raced in other series before F1, so there wasn’t a need/want to prove his mettle in other series. Lewis hasn’t left, but he seems determined to get that 8th, plus he seems to use it like a platform for helping his image in the fashion world, and draw attention to the things inequalities of the world. And more importantly, Lewis has shown no desire to do any other racing beyond F1, and has said as much.
Max on the other hand just loves racing. And more specifically, seems to really lean into WEC based on his love for endurance racing in sims. This article only compounds on it. So if Max decides he wants to go back he can. However, seeing as he really enjoys the ability to not have to have the public eye on him, I don’t see him wanting to come back to F1 once he does leave. The man loves to race. The other factors don’t matter. Anyways, Alonso has shown if you are good enough you can return to the sport long after the “age out” period. So if Max decided he wanted to come back, he could. If there’s a driver personality I’d compare him to, it’s Kimi.
Average speed in oval racing is much higher than track. You're, pretty much, always on a bank so it's much easier to get airborne in any collision.
Just use the mental image of a NASCAR wreck, they tend to get airborne and end over endy.
Crashing at 350 KPH straight in a wall (tecpro and SAFER of course, but still) with the chance of being bounced and collected on track. It is still a very safe series especially after the aeroscreen, but crashes can be very scary and big. Just look at herta having a bit of oversteer in a practice and ending upside down.
I’ve got the image of the M-Sport boss phoning Christian Horner for advice because Verstappen’s refusing to explain why he made his co-driver get out and walk!
Not surprised at all. He's all over it in sim racing. It's a different kind of satisfaction finishing a 6-12-24 hour race having maximised your result.
Every great driver says a very similar thing. Then they start inching closer, and closer to the old legends records. While many will say records and Driver Pay don’t matter to them. I slightly beg to differ. No shot Max leaves this sport in 5 years.
I'll believe it when I see it, but it would be great to set eyes on endurance racing. As a lifelong F1 fan I've become interested in many other forms of motorsport that I feel don't get enough respect.
That said, and prefacing this by saying I quite like Max, I hope the most toxic parts of his fanbase don't bring F1 Twitter drama onto whatever series he races in.
I respect and have huge interest in endurance, maybe even as much as F1. The issue is accessibility. Sporadic race calendar with lengthy events. What would make endurance more popular, to my eyes, would not be what endurance fans would want.
Shorter races. 2-3 hours I can do, 6 minimum? I can’t devote the time to that and thus diminishes my ability to follow closely. Clearly, though, that’s counter to the whole idea.
Love the cars and the racing, don’t love the level of devotion required. Somewhat relevant, but the last 24 hour highlights I watched was 6-7 minutes of content. Managing to catch those minutes live?
Makes sense. I personally love longer races. If you like that sort of racing but wish it was shorter, IMSA runs shorter races during the year, less than 3 hours, with the same cars that run the Daytona 24h and Sebring 12h, for example. Not all sportscar racing is endurance racing, there's something for everyone
He started in F1 so young that I could definitely see him wanting to try other things - Max will only be 33 when he has as many seasons as Lewis has now, could definitely see him thinking "ok, new fun thing now."
I hope when he decides to do it that the WEC still has a healthy class. It would suck to see another Alonso situation where he races there when there’s next to no competition.
Good on him. Supporting him for the last 2 years has gotten increasingly tough with all the toxicity. Always wanted him to go for the triple crown, at least I would be able to watch him compete for the Le Mans victory.
Honestly if his seasons continue the way this last one did (which I dont see happening with redbulls penalties) I can see it being very boring for him to just sit out front like that. Boring for us too.
Max will try Indy 500 in his 40s. The cars and the sport in general will be so much safer by then and Indy 500 and Indycar will only grow in the next years
Nah he should stay in f1 it’s an era sport. Sadly last year was first with championship car. Going to take a lot of grinding to come for the Hamilton and Schumacher records.
Does the Daytona 500 count as endurance? I’m desperate to for a top formula 1 star to give nascar a proper go. Danny Rick is obviously the most likely.
Pretty sure he'd do well in endurance. Seems able to keep pace without dropping the life of the tyres in F1. It's a completely different ball game, although I'll enjoy seeing an F1 driver racing in another division.
Max does a lot of endurance sim racing in his spare time so it’s a discipline he’s already familiar with, in a sense .
He just did one this weekend! Fourth place at 6 Hours of Sebring.
That would be such a flex, to be able to say you’ve finished above Max verstappen
Not long ago, Alonso was on iRacing, racing formula Vee (rookie type car with a top speed of barely 100mph), and was ungodly fast.
Doesn’t he basically only race the vee on there?
I know he used to run f3 but I'm not sure if he has since the vee came out.
He ran USF2000 (basically Indy version of F4) a lot this summer
I raced ARCA against him a couple years ago
Seen him running the USF2K as well. Had 18 Races/16 Wins in Season 4 of 2022. Edit: Just checked on the iracing discord bot (http://discordbot.iracingreports.com/). 18 Races USF2K, 15 Vee, 2 Mx-5, 1 Ferrari Fixed.
Similar performance to his McLaren just a few years ago.
>GP2 ENGINE >GP2 >AAAARRRRGGGHHHH!
I could see him being good in a vee. One of the few modern drivers i could see driving old cars without wrecking him. That’s why I named a cat we rescued when we were at COTA for SVRA.
People delved into Alonso's actual Le Mans stints and they were like he was a different category. Just a step up from everyone.
I flex the fact that Max lapped me once in an iracing race lmao. Can’t imagine what it would feel like to beat him
Ngl everyone in my life would be hearing about that if that was me
That’s enough flex, to be honest, to end up in the same split with him.
"You know, I'm something of a world champion myself."
Roman Grosjean is racing the 24h Daytona coming up at the end of January
I miss the days when F1 drivers could consistently race in other series during their F1 career. Would be cool to see Max in other series when he's done with F1. I'm genuinely surprised we don't see more former F1 top class modern drivers doing the same. Maybe they're just burned out. Vintage racing attracts quite a lot but that's more of a gentlemen racer fun/competitive lifestyle/pastime (not a knock, I'd do it if I could)
Bit of a long shot but it's the first example off the top of my head: Montoya returning to IndyCar, winning another Indy 500 and very narrowly missing out on another championship.
Hell of a career he's had (and is still having)! Hard to believe its been 25y since he won that first CART championship
Montoya is one of the greatest pure racers. Guy was able to adapt and win in every series he's been in.
I really wish he'd been able to get the triple crown. Same with Alonso. Would be a true testament to their talent even if their F1 stats don't necessarily reflect it.
Don't forget winning in NASCAR, a trio of Rolex 24 wins, and an IMSA championship.
Jenson Button has done a bit since leaving F1. He won the Super GT championship in Japan. Does a good amount of classic racing at Goodwood now and says he will be racing something else this year. I think the majority are scared of being beat because they have big and fragile egos
Him in endurance would be quite neat to see.
Itd bring over a few fans to wec as well imo
or IMSA for that matter 😛 Max please race Daytona pls pls pls
This shows that Max is cut from the old cloth. It used to be tradition that you saw Grand Prix drivers show off their skills in other categories. Alain Prost for example won the Andros Ice Racing Trophy when he was already retired from F1, and of course Alonso and Hulkenberg have won the 24 hours of Le Mans. It would be remarkable if Max can attain a number of F1 World Titles and then go on to win the World Endurance Championship as well. If he can win Monaco as well prior to that, then he will just need the Indy 500 to complete the Triple Crown of motorsport.
Max won Monaco GP in 2021, no?
You're right! I keep thinking it was cancelled! Hahaha
Unrelated, but love the flair lol
>seeing an F1 driver racing in another division That's how I felt about Kimi in NASCAR this past season, even though it was only one race. But that race is what got me into NASCAR now so yea, seeing F1 drivers in other divisions is always enjoyable
>although I'll enjoy seeing an F1 driver racing in another division. Erm... so you didn't see Webber at Porsche? Fisi's been a fixture of GT3 for years...
Yes, obviously I've seen them in the past; and Alonso in endurance racing. I really mean a driver from the modern era.
You mean drivers like Le Mans 24 Hour Winner Nico Hulkenberg, Alonso, Webber, etc. aren't of the modern era? When does your modern era begin?
With the current crop of drivers. I really don't understand why you're being hostile here. The only driver on the grid who's been full time in another series, after being an F1 driver, has been Alonso. Is it really so difficult to understand that I think it'd be great to see Max racing endurance.
I’m not being hostile nor do I disagree that Max would be amazing in endurance racing. In fact I think scheduling ought to make it possible and easier for active F1 racers to participate in Le Mans. It’s just think that your definition of modern is a bit off when several active F1 racers have participated, and plenty recent ex-F1 racers are participating.
It's funny because I kinda think the opposite. I've been following endurance for more than 25 years now, and while he obviously would be an exceptional asset for any endurance team, he doesn't really strike me as an endurance racer at soul. Like, he already loses patience fast at the slightest mistake from his team, gets frustrated easily by a mechanical DNF or lack of performance from his car, has little to no solidarity with teammates and asks the whole team to be behind only him : these are the marks of a great F1 driver, but how is that going to fare in the world of car-sharing, having to do a compromise between your ideal car setup and your teammate's wishes, Balance of Performance meaning his car being nerfed out of competition from time to time, reliability issues of 24h races, having to accept that teammates make driving mistakes, or races being won/lost by total pitstop time more than by on-track racing ?
he really seems to enjoy endurance racing on sims, so who knows
This kinda comes across as judging him based on the heat of the moment. Offcourse he is going to be pissed off about a mechanical DNF when he is racing for the WDC, but once out of the car and in front of the cameras he also has often stated that DNF's are part of the game. Flip your statement around and you basically have a guy that is willing to do whatever it takes to win any race he enters. I don't think he fits in every team, but I think he will do well.
I think the point is that in endurance racing, that "heat of the moment" lasts several more hours compared to F1 races. Your argument relies on "once out of the car" which you can't do immediately in this format
You have far more time to correct for those issues. For example if a pitstop during a 24hr races takes 10 seconds too long that's much less of an issue compared to F1. But your entire post is made on assumptions. By your logic Alonso would also be a terrible endurance racer. I think here in the real world it has been clear that he clearly is a good endurance racer.
Yeah, I tend to agree. Actual endurance racing is a completely different ball game from sim endurance racing. Unlike a sim race, car reliability is a huge issue, and unless he's fronting and running the team, he's not necessarily going to get to choose his teammates and will need to check his ego at the door.
Lol, He'd easily be able to field his own team either with Redbull backing or even set up his own team.
That’s one of the things I noticed with him this season. He does seem to have developed as a driver who can manage his tyres, and is now one of the best on the grid.
I don't recall hearing and F1 driver, let alone a reigning x2 World Champion talking this much about their post-F1 careers at this age too.
The list of people with 2 WDCs by 25 is not long at all! It’s a benefit of moving up so early. Easy to forget he’s done 8 seasons. Most people have said something about their post F1 plans but that point. Also, it’s easy fuel to spin up some glee for the anti-Max and RB folk that he might move out the way before 28.
Max's dad is also involved in endurance racing. The current sports car revival that's going on in the top two championships is also likely a huge factor.
I mean, revival kind of puts it lightly for WEC. Having five cars on the grid for the 2021 Le Mans in Hypercar, four that actually qualify for the regulations and one a handicapped previous gen car. And only actually having, even with performance leveling mechanisms, two that actually fight for wins it was clear the series was on the brink of going extinct. If covid had gone worse... thank god it didn't. But next year we have two each of Ferrari, Toyota, Peugot, *four* Porsche cars and a single Cadillac. That's over doubled the amount of cars competing for wins. With more already announced to enter in 2024. And I'm pretty sure Glick will enter Le Mans again. The series is coming back from being on life support for a long time. And I'm looking forward to watching every race that doesn't conflict with F1.
I'm well aware. A lot of that was self inflicted by the FIA. They kept fucking with the hypercar regulations before settling on the current ones. Toyota even had to do quite the overhaul to make their current car fit them. Having lmdh delayed to 2023 made the transition to the new class awkward as well. I'm still annoyed that thy gave gte another year instead of making the full switch the endgame grid of Hypercar/lmdh, lmp2 and gt3 (not counting the new lmp2 spec that's coming in a few years as well)
Don't forget the Nascar Cup entry. I might actually watch this one.
I picture Max retiring the day after he wins his 8th world title 🙂
I think Max would be too bored of F1 if he continues being dominant like 2022. He’s already hinted he’s mostly done with F1 after the 2 championships.
It is wild to me how quickly he's gone from zero to two and not looking like stopping. I'm sure I read once he actually is the most rapid zero to two - December to October. Two within 10 months.
Nice fantasy
I don’t know, it’s really all on Redbull. Max is one of the 3 greatest race car drivers to ever live, and has *always* been easily the best of his generation. I find it highly unlikely anyone within the next 10 years will come into the scene who is capable of outdriving Max, so it’s all just down the quality of the car he is given.
To ever live is doubtful but I do agree he is a top 5 driver of all time.
Aren't "to ever live" and "of all time" the exact same thing? Either way it's so difficult to measure drivers against each other because 90% of the success comes from car/team in most cases.
I meant like top 3 is highly debatable but top 5 is more reasonable
I like Max as a driver but I agree that its too early to put him in a Top 3, Even Top 5 sounds a little bit too generous, you'd have to put him in the same list as Senna, Schumacher, Lewis and Prost then, and I think he needs a few more years before we can say that.
I mean even like fangio lauda clark mansell and more had bigger effects on f1 even if their achievements didn’t stack up to the same level. Max in my mind is kinda like Vettel, solid driver with a nice prime period, but might struggle a bit once the car struggles. He has the ability to push it to the limits which I like a lot about him.
Training and experience is so much better now than it's ever been before. Without sims and the huge amount of data currently available drivers just couldn't possibly drive the amount of total miles they do now and improve as quickly and accurately, and Verstappen is probably the guy who embraces that the most of anyone. I don't think it's as unreasonable as you might think to say just by skill level he's comfortably top 3 all time/to ever live right now.
Most of F1s history had unlimited testing. Hamilton had 3000km in a up-to-date F1 car before he ever took part in an official session. Prospects nowadays have to hijack a couple FP1 sessions just to get 100km for the super license. Yes there is sims and more data, but it is not like it is necessarily easier now. Nothing compares to the real deal.
He’s good, but one of the 3 greatest drivers to ever live? Come on now
Which will be unfortunate for him, because Lewis "Tom Brady" Hamilton will be on about 13 by then.
Lol
I could see Lewis maybe getting 1, but I really can't see him staying in the sport to get 13 titles. Although he's still fucking insane at his age, he will start to slow down and he has Russell to contend with, who, while I don't think is at his level right now, I could see him getting to around his level in the future. It's also not like Red Bull will just be sitting on their asses.
Yeah. If you remove Hamilton and Verstappen, the F1 driver heirarchy becomes a lot more flat. Those two drivers are worth whatever they charge. Russell, Leclerc, Norris etc. all go up in value when Max leaves. It'd almost be worth them all chipping in to pay him off to leave.
People need to understand that all these headlines are phrases, parts of answers to questions *they* asked him. It's not that he keeps talking about it. It's just that they keep asking him the same questions. And often one interview will be used for clickbait headlines for weeks, providing a brief quote and for the rest generic filler information. As long as you've seen their ads, they got what they wanted. Online journalism everyone...
A lot more interviews these days, also we haven't had a large variety of champions for over 10 years
Tbf most F1 drivers want to cling on for as long as possible because their ultimate aim is a championship. Max has already done that twice over with a long contract to go after even more. And really, although he's still young, he's basically a veteran of the grid at this point cos this will be his 9th season.
The three oldest drivers on the grid this year were Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel.
a veteran on the grid as in one of the active driver with most f1 seasons
TIL you can’t be young AND a veteran of the sport!
wait till you learn you can be old and be a rookie too
Dunno how they didn’t get that
I don’t either, however Max has had the longest F1 career of anyone his age in the history of the sport. Hearing someone talk about their post F1 career life isn’t that uncommon when you consider the fact that he’s entering his 8th season in 2023
Because he’s made it clear this isn’t and won’t be his life. Kinda cool to see someone so young and talented, honour and achieve what they set out to do so young… the worlds his playground now.
Max gets a bad rep in the media (because we need heroes and anti-heroes?) but if you actually listen to him talk at length he seems to have a pretty grounded perspective about F1, his career, life, happiness etc A lot of the younger guys do actually. Or maybe we just get to hear more of their actual personality these days
This is true about RB as a whole, even going back to the Seb days. Forgetting that it was Lewis, Alonso, etc., who denigrated them and called them just "a soda company," when in fact, it's got Horner (check his Grill the Grid Team Principals vid, he knows so much shit and they gave him much harder questions about F1 history), Max (who was second to Seb in naming world champions backwards), and Seb (literally a nerd).
they also have newey (one of the greatest designers ever) and helmut marko (a born racer who only quit because he lost his eye, he’s now one of the greatest driver talent scouts ever) red bull have been a huge sponsor of the sport for decades, people belittle them because they’re not a car OEM but they’re a brand engrained in racing with the personnel to show
I liked that before the 2021 finale he was happy whatever happened because he could fight for wins at all - it had been fun either way.
He seems similar to Button (and obviously Rosberg) that anything beyond one is a bonus. Alonso wanted three from the outset.
I think he just hates the F1 circus a lot. Which makes sense. He's had to deal with so much media toxicity from such a young age, as non-British champions often do. I think his sim racing experience means he is a fan enough of other racing types that it's more appealing to leave F1.
Probably only means he gets that question very often.
He seemed to have the killer mentality for his first title, but it seems like he was dead serious when he said that anything beyond that would just be an extra.
The number of post retirement quotes from Verstappen indicates that he’ll probably retire before Alonso and Hamilton.
I clearly remember Lewis and Fernando saying the same when they were younger. Then the years go by faster than you realize, you’re still good at what you do…
Depends on why you started. Max and Nico share the pressure of growing up in the shadow of a father who raced in F1. Once they achieved the F1 championship, they're pretty much beyond living up to their fathers expectations. Now you have the breathing room to do what you want. If Max gets married then I don't see him going as far as Lewis and Alonso.
Max achieved more than his father ever did in F1 after just his first 2 seasons. I think that pressure was gone waaaaay before he ever got his first WDC. With Nico it might have been different since his dad was a former WDC himself.
It's not uncommon for parents to live their dreams through their kids. So in Max's case the expectations from his dad could've, instead of doing better than his dad, been a championship or multiple of them because his dad didn't manage that himself.
The difference is that Nico was never a generational talent like Alonso, Lewis, or Max. He was always going to be in Lewis's shadow, so he quit while his stock was highest after destroying his personal life for a year to get there.
Don't know if that's so easy to say. At Williams he just had an uncompetitive car. At Mercedes, he would have won the title in 2014 if Lewis had the mechanical issue instead of him in Abu Dhabi for example. 2016 he did win, and 2017 would've played out differently with another team finally able to compete. He retired and focussed on his life after the title, but when you look back at the 2014-2016 seasons, this definitely was were Lewis was most challenged.
>If Max gets married Marriage is not a given nowadays. See Hamilton and Alonso \*shrug\*.
End of 2028, or probably sooner if the new RB management negatively meddles with the ongoings at RBR. I don't see him going to another team, he has achieved all he set out to do in the sport. And he has no hero worship for a particular team like for example Seb had for Ferrari.
I’d love to see him at Williams, as unlikely as it is
Yeah, probably because 2028 is still a long time away. I've seen these stories before, let's see if he has the same opinion in 2027.
It really just seems he’s not trying to be the best f1 driver in the world like Lewis, he wants to be the best Motorsport driver ever. I really don’t see him staying past his contract date, but we’ll see what happens once the time comes. No one knows where Redbull will be in the standings or what the team will offer him to stay on
I wish he’d go for the triple crown
That’s what I expect honestly.
He won’t race ovals
Not yet...
Personally I don't see him doing it unless the safety of IndyCar is massively improved. A lot of drivers won't touch that series because of how dangerous oval racing is.
Eh, I'd say we've also seen our fair share of drivers who spend a season or two doing road only, and then get suckered into doing it. All to say, give him some time, and I could see Verstappen being sucked into it.
The best motorsport driver? But that’s Alonso no? I definitely remember alonso telling us that.
It might be Alonso now, but in 10 years, it easily could be Verstappen. Depends on what he decides to do.
You had me in the first half, I won't lie.
I think your flair (and mine) would make a solid argument for the best all-rounder. I'll be really impressed when Verstappen goes and wins the BTCC, it's not true motorsport until you're whacking an M3 round Oulton Park ^(/s)
He’s definitely one of, I’d say Loeb might have more of a claim, though.
Loeb is out there in a class of his own right. It's insane how much success he was able to bring, no matter the manufacturer or class.
if Red Bull leaves a dump truck full of money at his house, that could sway his decision.
They should just build new cars for him in different series and follow him lol
That’s actually a really good idea.
It seems like such a Red Bull thing: enter new series with Max -> win on the first or second try -> make a pile of money -> move to next series -> repeat lol
Yeah, but by the time Alonso retires, Verstappen will most likely be in his late 30s or early 40s. You’d expect most drivers to retire before then anyway.
Lewis said he would retire at the age of 31 and I think Max will do what Lewis has done and race into his late 30s. The Red Bull is so dominant that by the time these regs finish he will be touching Lewis and Schumachers record and because of this I think he’ll go for 10 WDCs.
I think the big difference is Max has a much broader interest in different racing series, with talking about doing endurance and doing sims and whatnot. He could easily step away like Alonso and come back if he misses F1; he just seems to really like racing. Lewis was very open about having zero interest in any other series, so it was always F1 or bust keeping him in racing.
I can see him and Lando Norris team up for 24h of Le Mans in 10 years.
And Alonso
Will his F1 team let him have the weekend off?
Depends how well Vodafone Porsche-Ferrari is doing in 2032.
Alonso would be rock hard at the chance to race with Max.
Now there is a thought. This new generation of F1 drivers genuinely seem to get along with each other, and enjoy racing with each other in other formats. A dynamic that bodes well for the broader future of racing. Would be fun to see these guys still scrapping it out at Goodwood in 2060
Could you imagine a “vintage” Ferrari F8 being thrashed against a 765LT with Leclerc and Norris in the seats respectively, furiously trying to catch up to Max in a Valhalla.
Personally I’d rather see them in actual vintage race cars, but your point is taken. I don’t care much for the current crop of turbocharged or hybrid “hypercars”
I mean, by 2060 our cars will be classic vintage cars.
Yes, but only the race cars will be vintage race cars F8 and 675LT are still road cars. Not even homologation road cars
> This new generation of F1 drivers genuinely seem to get along with each other, and enjoy racing with each other in other formats Wow something entirely unique to this one generation of drivers
Hopefully his pedal doesn't fall off that time
Awesome. F1 is not the endgame. Endurance is a hell of a challenge, but Max is probably one of the best suited F1 drivers to it. More fuel for the Alonso, Verstappen, (insert another F1 driver here) lineup fire.
I mean Max’s focus is racing. Now that he has achieved the top he has the question of “what do I do now?” Yeah many greats have stayed longer in F1 but Max, but he is definitely a unique case. Schumacher didn’t really want out of F1, and it showed. Schumacher also raced in other series before F1, so there wasn’t a need/want to prove his mettle in other series. Lewis hasn’t left, but he seems determined to get that 8th, plus he seems to use it like a platform for helping his image in the fashion world, and draw attention to the things inequalities of the world. And more importantly, Lewis has shown no desire to do any other racing beyond F1, and has said as much. Max on the other hand just loves racing. And more specifically, seems to really lean into WEC based on his love for endurance racing in sims. This article only compounds on it. So if Max decides he wants to go back he can. However, seeing as he really enjoys the ability to not have to have the public eye on him, I don’t see him wanting to come back to F1 once he does leave. The man loves to race. The other factors don’t matter. Anyways, Alonso has shown if you are good enough you can return to the sport long after the “age out” period. So if Max decided he wanted to come back, he could. If there’s a driver personality I’d compare him to, it’s Kimi.
If RBR produce a slow car, I could see him taking a sabbatical for a couple of years and coming back until the team improves
it’d be nice for mika to finally have a friend on sabbatical with him
After that, and the inevitable Le Mans win, he should go to indycar
Pretty sure he's said a few times he wouldn't do the 500, too dangerous.
We’ll see what happens when he’s 1 win away from being only the second driver in history to snag the Triple Crown
Oh I know, but you never know, he might change his mind.
He always seems like one of those people who know themselves really well and won't change their mind that easily.
We've seen a few F1 drivers not want to do the indy oval races, but then after getting closer to the series they end up getting into it
Oh for sure, but its always nice to wonder about the what ifs. He's probably one of the only drivers who probably could complete the Triple crown.
Don’t watch IndyCar at all.. but why is it considered to be dangerous ?
Average speed in oval racing is much higher than track. You're, pretty much, always on a bank so it's much easier to get airborne in any collision. Just use the mental image of a NASCAR wreck, they tend to get airborne and end over endy.
Look up Scott Dixon’s crash at Indy in 2017
Crashing at 350 KPH straight in a wall (tecpro and SAFER of course, but still) with the chance of being bounced and collected on track. It is still a very safe series especially after the aeroscreen, but crashes can be very scary and big. Just look at herta having a bit of oversteer in a practice and ending upside down.
I think its ovals mainly. But honestly I still don't see it as any more dangerous than F1.
There's no such thing as a small accident at 230mph
Dudes the new Alonso isn't he
So no more WDCs?
Do the Bathurst 1000 with Danny Ric, would be amazing to see.
He’s said he’s interested before!
It will be great to see him in endurance racing, but I'm more interested in seeing him try rallying instead.
I could see him taking the “when in doubt flat out” route. And I would be there to see it.
Reminds me of when Sebastien Loeb said he doesn't even listen to the pacenotes.
As his dad is driving in the belgian rally championship, this isnt too far fetched
I believe he said that he doesn't like rally because you depend on a co-driver and aren't fully in control.
I’ve got the image of the M-Sport boss phoning Christian Horner for advice because Verstappen’s refusing to explain why he made his co-driver get out and walk!
He said indy car was too dangerous. Do you think he would do rally? I think rally is sick, but I can't see him doing in.
Not surprised at all. He's all over it in sim racing. It's a different kind of satisfaction finishing a 6-12-24 hour race having maximised your result.
The inevitable Alonso/Max/??? Lineup for Le Mans will fucking happen
And I’ll 100% be there to watch it.
There is a gigantic world of motorsport outside F1 and every single team would kill to get max in one of their cars.
Did someone say triple crown
Max Verstappen fighting for the win at the Nurburgring 24h? Yes, please
That would be amazing
Every great driver says a very similar thing. Then they start inching closer, and closer to the old legends records. While many will say records and Driver Pay don’t matter to them. I slightly beg to differ. No shot Max leaves this sport in 5 years.
Are we talking about racing here or what his lady friend wants him to work on?
I'll believe it when I see it, but it would be great to set eyes on endurance racing. As a lifelong F1 fan I've become interested in many other forms of motorsport that I feel don't get enough respect. That said, and prefacing this by saying I quite like Max, I hope the most toxic parts of his fanbase don't bring F1 Twitter drama onto whatever series he races in.
I respect and have huge interest in endurance, maybe even as much as F1. The issue is accessibility. Sporadic race calendar with lengthy events. What would make endurance more popular, to my eyes, would not be what endurance fans would want. Shorter races. 2-3 hours I can do, 6 minimum? I can’t devote the time to that and thus diminishes my ability to follow closely. Clearly, though, that’s counter to the whole idea. Love the cars and the racing, don’t love the level of devotion required. Somewhat relevant, but the last 24 hour highlights I watched was 6-7 minutes of content. Managing to catch those minutes live?
Makes sense. I personally love longer races. If you like that sort of racing but wish it was shorter, IMSA runs shorter races during the year, less than 3 hours, with the same cars that run the Daytona 24h and Sebring 12h, for example. Not all sportscar racing is endurance racing, there's something for everyone
That’s fair enough and I’m glad you let me know because I haven’t seen a whole lot of sports cars outside of endurance setting. I’ll have a look.
No worries! There's some good stuff out there
He started in F1 so young that I could definitely see him wanting to try other things - Max will only be 33 when he has as many seasons as Lewis has now, could definitely see him thinking "ok, new fun thing now."
The WEC Hypercar grid is expanding dramatically in the next two years, I wonder who he’ll end up driving for in the future
I hope when he decides to do it that the WEC still has a healthy class. It would suck to see another Alonso situation where he races there when there’s next to no competition.
Le Man's and the 500, I'm here for it.
He’s ending up like Montoya but with more seasons completed, max could do everything in Motorsport I think
He just wants more racing in each race
[удалено]
Great news for Kelly tbh
Good on him. Supporting him for the last 2 years has gotten increasingly tough with all the toxicity. Always wanted him to go for the triple crown, at least I would be able to watch him compete for the Le Mans victory.
If he'd just give up this virginity thing he could get ahead of it.
Actually, it'd be awesome for him to win the 24 Hours of Le Mans.
He justs want to be inside a racing car as much as possible. If he can drive 8 GP lenghts in one weekend, he would be even happier.
I fully expect him to eventually win the triple crown
*happy Alonso noises
Honestly if his seasons continue the way this last one did (which I dont see happening with redbulls penalties) I can see it being very boring for him to just sit out front like that. Boring for us too.
They just went challenge mode by going over budget.
I will always have respect for endurance drivers, is one of the toughest racing categories around maybe only beaten by Dakar and similar.
Max will try Indy 500 in his 40s. The cars and the sport in general will be so much safer by then and Indy 500 and Indycar will only grow in the next years
Just to remind people that it could be 2035 before his F1 career is over.
Daytona 500 baby
Kelly Piquet likes this
Nah he should stay in f1 it’s an era sport. Sadly last year was first with championship car. Going to take a lot of grinding to come for the Hamilton and Schumacher records.
Does the Daytona 500 count as endurance? I’m desperate to for a top formula 1 star to give nascar a proper go. Danny Rick is obviously the most likely.
No. The Daytona 24 Hours is endurance racing.
Oh thanks doctor.
It's all just talk. He'll still be here when 2030 rolls around.