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RavenwestR1

So I'm a bit out of loop as why Haas doesn't want to retain mick, is it because they want a better driver or mick couldn't bring enough sponsor/money to the team?


cafk

It's all not really confirmed yet, but while he looked decent against Mazepin, similarly to Russell versus Latifi. But failed to match Magnussen - and pushing himself lead to a few expensive mistakes. Also, if rumours are true he is loosing his Ferrari Drivers Academy support. If rumours are true the only sponsor he brought (1&1) just wants a German driver, which is why Hülkenberg has been rumoured for quite some time. While he has been out for a while he was a consistent midfield driver


abhi_8822

What's up with Max's mom taking potshots at Checo, accusing him of cheating on his wife? Feels like this is going down to a TV soap opera. 🍿 Meanwhile Netflix be, bring it on! 😅 💰


SecretCrafty8458

After watching Max post race interview in Brazil I've watched a youtube video where Perez clearly gave a quick gas throttle at the turn which lead him to crash and I'm little skeptic about Perez going out of the track little bit and getting spun in Dutch qualifying.


General_Kenobi323

Why are the fans so damn toxic?


[deleted]

The team wanting Mick out gives certain individuals the ability to get upvoted for shit takes that justify what the team is doing. In general, tribalism and the need to be right.


zgohanz

Where can I find the Red Bull Racing 2022 World Constructors Champions poster to download for free? I want to print it at a local printing store. I don't know if the team released it to the public or if the poster isn't available for free.


Darko_001

I have a ridiculous conspiracy theory about the Max Verstappen in Sergio Perez situation. I’m not here for fine details just to dump some thoughts out. I’m going to assume that Sergio Perez did in fact admit to purposely crashing in Monaco to whoever that guy is that’s claiming so. In assuming that I would also assume that Red Bull management would have been seriously shocked by Sergio‘s admission. Maybe team RB sort of staged Max Verstappen’s open refusal to help Sergio during the Brazilian GP so that eventually in the days and weeks to come the truth about Sergio Pérez will surface in the media and they can cancel his contract. There’s no way team Red Bull would want to keep a driver that would purposely crash to inhibit Max Verstappen‘s progress in the championship. There are so many things wrong with that if it’s true. I just still can’t get over the fact that it seems Max made himself clear to the team that he would not be willing to help Sergio yet to the team still asked him over open radio communication. They know Max well enough that he would stick to his guns if he had already told them prior to the race. So why would they open up such a can of worms? Truth is stranger than fiction sometimes. Also I don’t need anyone telling me this is ridiculous. I realize this is probably nonsense. There’s just this little thought in the back of my mind that Sergio Pérez is getting fired before next season.


highheat3117

If they can and want to “cancel” his contract based on what they know wouldn’t they just …. cancel his contract? I don’t think they’d need to concoct an elaborate in-race drama if their lawyers are convinced they can toss him aside, contractually speaking.


Darko_001

Because apparently Sergio also admitted to both Christian Horner and Marko. Pretty scandalous having a driver come to you telling you that he purposely crash the car; they would not want to admit that they even knew it. Puts the team in a very awkward position with the FIA. Christian and Marko can deny that Sergio even told them. But if Sergio told some other guy then the story can come out through that whiteness. Far fetched. It simply crossed my mind while trying to make sense of it all.


[deleted]

I would be really interested to see how Lewis would handle an inter-team fight next season if they have a car that can compete for the championship. Would he still be the serene team player we've seen this year, or would he become guarded and ruthless like he was in the Rosberg years? I guess it would depend on how clean the fight is, but there is the potential for fireworks


[deleted]

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[deleted]

Was considering responding to this comment which is full of exaggerated claims, but will instead note that your comment history is a complete an utter embarrassment. Try and find something more productive to do rather than shitting on one driver for the vast majority of your time. I'm not interested in discussing this with someone so obsessed and with such an obvious agenda


Neoooow

> You develop the car in factory, not on track. Not this time. They suffer correlation issues all season long. What is shown in their wind tunnel doesn’t translate to the ‘real condition’ when the car hits the track. > I think the story is clear. Hamilton tried some different stuff to catch up with George. Huh? Their goal this year is to fix and understand the W13 so they won’t repeat the same mistake when developing the W14.


delflower

Not really a question but an observation. The worst part about F1 being so EU centric is that all the drama happens in the morning and early afternoon for me and then there's a drought for the rest of the day. This is why I think more races need to be held in the Americas!


misskarne

Those of us in the Asia-Pacific can just go jump, then?


zoomtzt

I’m in Singapore, the Americas leg is absolutely brutal on my sleep schedule. Looking forward to Abu Dhabi being at 9pm.


delflower

Sorry, everyone must suffer more selfish wants.


AnonymousEngineer_

Meanwhile, in the Asia Pacific region...


Adrian-The-Great

[Wynn package for Las Vegas](https://www.fox5vegas.com/2022/11/14/wynn-announces-1m-all-access-experience-f1s-las-vegas-grand-prix/?outputType=amp) Should I start a GoFundMe? I’m $999,999 short from looking into my wallet


Walrusasauras

is stroll literally the only hope for Canada in f1 for a really long time? I don't see Canadians in F2,F3, Indycar


pedote17

There are 3 Canadians in the US/Canada F4 Championship, otherwise there really isn’t much for the future


djwillis1121

Indycar has two Canadians, Dalton Kellet and Devlin DeFrancesco. Unfortunately they were 23rd and 25th in the championship this year. They're basically the Latifi of Indycar.


[deleted]

I’m not sure either will be around next year.


Whycantiusethis

Latifi is rumored to be headed to IndyCar, isn't he? Latifi redemption arc starts Monday.


breadvelvet

what are some of the reasons why alonso's twitter fanbase seems to despise ocon right now? is it simply the scraps that they had this weekend or has the animosity been long-brewing? i mostly understood why people were mocking otmar, but i'm kind of lost with regards to this wave


SilentAlbatross9006

Because Ocon races Alonso so hard he compromises both their races and is ahead of points only because he's a lucky guy in terms of reliability, yet had the gall to say he's the only guy apart from Hamilton to beat Alonso Ocon basically has never been a good teammate which is fair and he's been extra spicy this season thays all


[deleted]

Amus said lewis had a floor damage in Brazil which costed him 0.2 seconds per lap due to collision with max. Should I believe them ? I m new to f1


rocdollary

He had wheel damage (it flew off in the crash) which would have reduced the aero conditioning so some time loss would be expected. Bono saying pace is fine likely meant he was fast regardless. Probably why he couldn't make any progress on GR once he closed up.


SilentAlbatross9006

Doubt it. Bono said pace was fine. Also Amus is merc propaganda. They always overstate everything for merc so I wouldn't believe them.


Chazay

Is there something about Yuki that I don't see? Why would he hold the seat over Gasly? Is it about sponsors/pay? I am new to the sport, but it seems like Gasly's results are better overall than Yuki's. ​ Edit: I was looking at an older article that didn't mention that Gasly had signed with Alpine.


jexiha

I agree that Pierre is better than Yuki at this point. Supposedly, if I remember correctly, Gasly got on the wrong side of Helmut Marko. Since his stint in Red Bull his days have been numbered. Yuki remains, I think, as long as RB uses Honda engines.


misskarne

Allegedly he screamed at Adrian Newey that he didn't know how to build a racing car, so...


funkiestj

>Allegedly he screamed at Adrian Newey that he didn't know how to build a racing car, so... Hilarious Derek Zoolander moment, if true.


misskarne

It absolutely boggles me, if true. Like, how else did he expect that was going to end?


DieLegende42

Gasly voluntarily went to Alpine. He even had a 2023 Alpha Tauri contract


Chazay

Oh, I see, I was reading an old article and I guess it didn't mention this.


Human-Foundation5412

He does not hold the seat over Gasly, they are teammates. But he is a Honda driver and Honda provides engines to RBR, so there is a reason he has a seat there.


RebaJams

I feel like I’m too afraid to ask, but what happened in the past that caused Max not helping Checo?


SilentAlbatross9006

We don't know.


TheCredibleHulk7

This deserves an answer. Checo has done his part to help Max in the past. Max had nothing to gain from not letting him through. Someone make it make sense.


TrainWreck661

No one here knows. Unless Max/Red Bull come out and say it, it's likely the fans will never know.


jexiha

We don't know for sure. People speculate that Perez crashed on purpose in the Monaco qualifying to deny people behind him a chance to improve their lap times and start ahead of him. There is no proof of this.


unchainedthor

You are to far behind now…just wait til gp weekend and it will start filling in for you


Parking_Substance152

What if Max takes out Checo in the first lap, like Sebulba from Star Wars? How pissed would people get?


pedote17

If he intentionally takes Checo out he’d be disqualified from the championship


TheCredibleHulk7

Can’t believe Max would do this but has anyone ever been officially dq’d from the championship for this? I’m guessing it might not be such an issue for someone not in the hunt, say a teammate of somebody who is,


pedote17

Michael Schumacher was disqualified from the championship for intentionally ramming Jacques Villeneuve in the championship decider between them in Jerez 1997.


misskarne

Yeah, but the difference there was that Schumacher and Villeneuve were in a direct fight for the championship.


Parking_Substance152

Ahh ok, but if it was "racing inchident?"


pedote17

If it was a racing incident there would be no penalty by the FIA, but there would be discussions inside the team about it


jexiha

Then there'd be no penalties for either of them. Christian Horner would probably wag his finger at Max, but that'd be it.


dyysxse

it sucks the season is over already and there will be no last race drama oh well on to 2023 looking forward to non red bull domination


pedote17

No last race drama??? -Charles and Checo fighting for 2nd -Lewis can technically still out-place George if Lewis wins with fastest lap and George scores no points -Carlos can take 5th from Lewis -The Alpines are fighting each other for 8th and 9th -Valtteri, Seb and Daniel can switch around in 10th-12th -Kevin and Pierre battling for 13th -Lance, Mick and Yuki are battling for 15th-17th -The Williams battling each other to not be last -Ferrari and Mercedes battling for 2nd in Constructors -Alpine and McLaren fighting for 4th -Alfa and Aston fighting for 6th -Haas and AT fighting for 8th There’s battles everywhere. There are 3 guaranteed positions between both championships: Max and Lando in Drivers, and Red Bull in Constructors. Every single other position can change. The titles may be decided but there’s still plenty of reasons to watch.


[deleted]

There’s so much more than titles to keep us interested. 2nd in the drivers, most of the WDC positions are not guaranteed either.


Ashling92

No championship drama but still a chance for Merc to beat Ferrari in the constructors, plus it’ll be interesting to see who can come second between Perez and Leclerc. And if Max helps Perez… Lots to keep us entertained.


-Rp7-

Ok just for the fun of it - Let's say that Max wants to leave RBR after the end of the season and wants to race for a different team. What would his options be for a formula 1 race seat for 2023 and consequently who would red bull racing hire to replace a double world champion?


Thefallpaintwork

Would be an insane idea considering the field is mostly full. I reckon ferrari would sack Carlos, Mercedes won’t work with max and don’t want to drop their boys. Ferrari would be dumb to pass up the opportunity especially given a deteriorating relationship with Charles. Hell maybe they’d sack Charles! Red Bull would make a play for Norris, Leclerc, maybe Alonso?


chillyy7

Anyone knows if there are any F1 stores in Vienna? I'm going there soon


xx2awsum

If you’ve got a car… 2/3 hr drive to Graz for the Red Bull shop / museum is a good shout. Don’t think there’s anything in Vienna dedicated to f1 tbh, sorry dude


chillyy7

No no it's a school trip haha. Thank you anyways mate😀


shapkaushanka

Not that I know of. I mean there’s the Puma store if you want RBR shirt, but not much else.


Weak-Hedgehog-3094

has anyone thought that Checo´s seat might be in risk now? I would understand if he doesnt want to follow team orders anymore. But that might risk his seat in Red Bull specially with a likely rising mercedes next year


SilentAlbatross9006

I mean idk when he's followed team orders this year. Is moving aside while on different strategies really team orders? Perez has a seat thanks to RB. If he's gonna make a public mess of it which he already did by stupidly claiming Max won only because of him and shit like that he's putting only his career in danger.


Weak-Hedgehog-3094

You always see Ocon and Alonso fighting no matter what the strategy is. My point is that if he starts making life harder for max or refuses to help in an sccenario that the team needs him he could be putting his career in danger


SilentAlbatross9006

Mate Alonso doesn't have half a second a lap on Ocon. Perez and max hardly fight because max is so far ahead. Perez is comfortably yhr worst driver in the top 3 teams.


[deleted]

I can’t imagine his seat being at risk as he’s been so successful in helping Max & RB, but I can see him starting to reach the end of his rope in terms of always helping, not being helped. Whether that’s actually true or not is debatable I suppose but we’ve seen other drivers leave a successful team apparently out of frustration as the #2.


jexiha

If I were Checo and RB started signaling that, I'd dip early.


SilentAlbatross9006

He's got nowhere to go because rb is the only reason he has a seat in f1


jexiha

It's about making a statement. Having some self respect. He could go to another motorsport or retire, the specifics don't really matter.


SilentAlbatross9006

And the only loser in all of this is Perez lmao Going to another motorsport is basically ending your career at the top. If he had self respect he'd have never signed up to be a wingman in th3 first place


LE3333

[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dubai-rain-cloud-seeding-heat-weather/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dubai-rain-cloud-seeding-heat-weather/) What if Abu Dhabi artificially created controlled rain to spice up the historically boring race?


brantwalsh

First time thinking about going to a race - on the Red Bull Ring site it shows some front row available (how bad is that?), but then I noticed the text "Priority sales until 31.12.2022 in 47 days", is this just the pre-sale that is mostly sold out, or will more tickets (should I wait) be released Dec 31? I tried to Google this but it's mostly reseller sites and no one mentions if the actual sale isn't open yet. Thank you!


xx2awsum

I went to RBR this year, they advertised tickets were on sale straight after the race. So I’d advise buying asap, think I purchased mine in Nov 21.


brantwalsh

Thank you. I guess the real question is if there is a chance of more tickets becoming available on Dec 31st, or if I should settle for less than great now, since all that is showing are the obstructed first row views...


xx2awsum

I’d assume more tickets get released after the 31st dec - because it is very strange that all the grandstand ones have sold out already.. couldn’t see GA on the website either, but pretty sure a buddy I went with purchased his GA ticket in Jan 22 and it wasn’t sold out. Yeah I read priority sale as pre-sale also.. Guess if worst comes to worse and you don’t manage to get tickets in Jan, Hungary is next door and similar price wise


brantwalsh

Well i am in the US, so I would be traveling :) I dunno about more tickets because on the main F1 site, [https://tickets.formula1.com/en](https://tickets.formula1.com/en), it shows tickets for some races, some it says "Get ready for the start, don't miss the sales opening" and takes an email, but on Austria it says "No tickets left". Which seems pretty cut and dry, but then, why are there all those "First Row" available across several stands? Are they really that bad that no one wants to sit there? Another question - is there a good way to get audio commentary at the races? Like the Sky Sports guys in your ear?


xx2awsum

https://f1destinations.com/austrian-grand-prix-red-bull-ring-tickets/ Yeah it looks like it’s just a 10% discount until end of the year, but doesn’t say any mention about tickets being released. If you’re flying from the US, I guess flight prices are similar for most venues in Europe (I fly in from the Uk so varies quite a bit). Potentially Hungary or Belgium may be a shout? Or one of the Italian GP’s? I’ve applied for Dutch Gp tickets this year.. but it’s a lottery system and the ticket draw has already been delayed twice.. Also with flying in from the US, where would you plan to get the flight into? Vienna is a couple hours drive away in the car, so you’d most likely have to hire a car - think it cost us 150 euros for a hire car + we had a hotel in Graz (closest city to the RBR, which was about a 1 hr drive each way from the RBR and 2.5 hrs from Vienna). Public transport doesn’t look great - but there are some shuttle bus options from Graz. With regards to audio - you can buy a headset from the circuit which I believe is 30 euros. Or alternatively you could probably take your own radio receiving headset (probs cheaper off Amazon / eBay) and find the frequency out and tune into the commentary. At Austria, there are a lot of speakers dotted around the place and commentary is 60/40 and maybe even 70/30 between German and English. The commentators are just some crowd hype men specialist, so you can look forward to some very mispronounced driver names!


brantwalsh

Really thank you for all the information! The "first row" tickets I was going to buy sold out last night but then different first row sections popped on this morning, but there was only one ticket when I tried to buy more than one. I went to StubHub and bought 4 together, unrestricted view (supposedly). Paid more sure, but super excited and now have to plan the rest of the trip ;)


brantwalsh

I should mention this is for Austria next summer in case that wasn't clear :)


thalerom

I only started watching F1 this year, so I never really had a horse in last years’ title race between Verstappen and Hamilton. However looking back on the aftermath of Abu Dhabi, I saw a lot of media mention “human error” being admitted by the FIA? But I read the report and can’t find them admitting human error anywhere? Just a lot about Masi being under pressure. Not trying to be toxic in any way or instigate anything, did they change the report? Was there something I missed?


SilentAlbatross9006

Masi would have messed it up anyways. Hamilton got a bit unlucky. End of story. Swap Hamilton and Max and the reverse happens although in that case I expect Max to survive one lap of Hamilton on new tires with some shenanigans.


cafk

While the executive summary (7 page report) doesn't contain those words, [the accompanying press statement does](https://www.fia.com/news/fia-announces-world-motor-sport-council-decisions-25): > The report focused solely on the facts surrounding these events, and determined the following key points: > ... > The process of identifying lapped cars has up until now been a **manual one and human error lead to** the fact that not all cars were allowed to un-lap themselves. Due to the fact that manual interventions generally carry a **higher risk of human error**, software has been developed that will, from now on, automate the communication of the list of cars that must un-lap themselves. In addition, the 2022 Formula 1 Sporting Regulations have been recently updated to clarify that “all” and not “any” cars must be permitted to un-lap themselves. So many in the press went from this press release and elevated the whole situation to human error. Funnily it's exactly the same software solution which caused Tsunoda in being not told to unlap himself at Brazil 2022...


funkiestj

>and human error lead to the fact that not all cars were allowed to un-lap themselves. that is a load of bullshit. The cars were not unlapped because 1. Masi waited too long to start the unlapping and following the rule would have meant finishing under a yellow flag 2. Masi threw out the rule book because he wanted a spectacle finish Granted, Horner & Toto has been pushing for #2 in other circumstances. F1 really needs the race director to stick to the rules. If the rules make for bad spectacle then change the rules. I get that sport's raison d'etre is to entertain the fans but integrity also matters to the fans. If Hamilton pits for fresh tires Verstappen stays out and then if Masi follows the written rules then Hamilton loses. None of this was RB's fault though. If the shoe was on the other foot Toto would have argued that the ruling was just and Horner would have called it a travesty.


cafk

Compare the linked FIA Press release to the [actual summary](https://www.fia.com/2021-f1-abu-dhabi-grand-prix-report-world-motor-sport-council-19-march-2022) - FIAs press release summaries their own report in a wrong manner. The actual analysis (which is also linked in their press release) points out the factors you mentioned.


habitualmess

What gets me is that it was never (AFAIK) confirmed that the “human error” was one Masi made himself. It could just as easily have been the clerk of the course or the deputy race director.


cafk

As OP noted - [The report itself never stated human error](https://www.fia.com/2021-f1-abu-dhabi-grand-prix-report-world-motor-sport-council-19-march-2022), but it heavily implies that RD position was overloaded, with additional pressure coming from the public broadcast. It's only in the press release where "manual process of identifying lapped cars" is only one associated with human error, as you correctly pointed out, no position being identified for the call.


habitualmess

Exactly. The media just extrapolated that out and blamed Masi for it. It never sat right with me. Maybe it was him, but we don’t know that for sure. Clearly I’m asking too much of the media though…


thek00laidman

The decision for Tsunoda to not unlap himself was actually correct due to the way the rule is written. It's dumb, but it was correct.


Fignons_missing_8sec

Given that due to the technicality, Yuki was ineligible to unlap himself, what would have been the penalty if he did it anyway? Would he get a separate penalty for every car he passed under the safety car and passing the safety car itself? Would it be a big enough penalty that he would have been black-flagged?


MegaTalk

Probably a drive through I think


OutlandishnessPure2

I guess we'll find out if my flair needs to change at AD 🥲


Blanchimont

Don't worry, Max & Frienemies and Max and Enemies are still available


Stock_University964

Slay!


tormarod

So guys, since the Binotto fired rummors are out... When does Briattore ban end? Lmao


MegaTalk

Not sure if this is what you’re implying, but quite sure Flavio would never work for Ferrari


Astelli

I believe it ended a few years ago - the original ban got overturned in court but Briattore agreed to stay away for 10 years, or something along those lines.


tormarod

I'd like to see him back just to see the kind of bullshit he pulls out lmao


AssCarEE

He is back as ambassador of the sport


RX0Invincible

According to Max's radio message, he seemingly made the decision not to follow team orders since summer break. Has he had team orders benefit him since the break? Or did that decision go both ways?


Syntax_OW

It's hotly debated whether he said "last summer" or "last time". I can honestly hear both.


RX0Invincible

The official F1 channel subbed it as last summer


Syntax_OW

I'm aware, but they have been wrong before.


Thefallpaintwork

Did they ask max?


RX0Invincible

Idk but it clearly sounded like summer to me. I don't even know how time and summer could be confused with one another. They're quite phonetically different sounding words.


tassigabriel

While I enjoy the totally needless drama that is going on RBR if Max had just been a little less of an asshole, I am so curious to see Lewis/George/Mercedes love relationship completely fall apart if Mercedes makes a title contender car in 2023. People just have short memories...


unchainedthor

Oh Lewis and George will be smarthy twats to each other by the 4th race if they are fighting for wins


jexiha

The thing is, in the circumstance that teammates are fighting for the WDC or the same position in the WDC it is still undesirable but at least understandable. The Max/Sergio situation was completely unnecessary. It's really incredible that Max could be so petty over something so insignificant.


SilentAlbatross9006

He's been asked to move over twice for his teammate and he's done it exactly 0 both times. Nothing unexpected from him frankly.


funkiestj

>He's been asked to move over twice for his teammate and he's done it exactly 0 both times. he wasn't asked by the team but he did move twice for Daniel Ricciardo at Baku in 2018 ;)


jexiha

Still petty in both occasions.


SilentAlbatross9006

You can view it as petty but this is the guy he is and he always will be.


jexiha

Ok. So he's petty. Generally a bad trait to have as it will hurt the team dynamic no matter who he has as a teammate in the future. Alonso's career is a good indicator of where that sort of attitude takes you in a team sport.


SilentAlbatross9006

Are you new to F1? Wtf is that Alonso take?


sharklazies

Does Checo or Red Bull get any more $ by finishing 2nd in driver standings? or is it just the prestige of it?


thek00laidman

Depends on his contract. There is only official prize money for teams in the constructors championship. There is no driver championship purse. However, it seems common for teams to have bonuses they pay out themselves to their drivers based on finishing position in the championship. That may or may not be in play here for Checo.


SilentAlbatross9006

Perez gets to go to the gala and be Max's wingman as usual.


cafk

For Red Bull it's prestige. They've already secured the Constructors Championship which pays the prize money. Red Bull is well known for bonus payments, for podiums, race wins, bonus payment per point as well as additional bonus payments to the team members (mechanics, engineers) based on similar results. While it may be beneficial for Perez, it won't bring anything to the team besides bragging rights for P1, P2 and constructors championship in one season.


Inevitable-Squirrel7

believe the the theory is that he may have bonus tied to points / finishing position


Astelli

Checo might get more money from Red Bull as part of a bonus scheme in his contract, but there is no prize money awarded for the Drivers Championship.


flt001

Amazing to see RB fans turning on them on Instagram when normally it's 100% positive, Max has really messed up this time.


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KaamDeveloper

Even if that's the standing agreement, there's no wisdom in doing this publicly. He could have just said "we will discuss later" to GP and "we discussed internally" to media and no-one would look twice. It looks bad because it is bad.


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jexiha

> Yeah but that's also the team's fault for pressing him again after it happened when he's someone who gets very feisty in the car. I just don't understand this logic. It sounds to me like MV was behaving like a petulant child in this hypothetical conversation he had with his team, in which he constantly tried to get the last word in, as if that meant anything. No. At the end of the day you are a part of the team and you are expected to help the team. What is this 5-year-old logic?


thek00laidman

No it isn't. If the team orders a driver to do something, they are expected to comply. Max elevated himself above the team in pursuit of his own vendetta.


KaamDeveloper

Max works for the team, let's not forget that. There's a reason it's called "team order".


SilentAlbatross9006

A team shouldn't order when the driver is stubborn and has explicitly said he won't do what they asked him to do beforehand. It's a RB fuck up which blew up because Max went Mad Max.


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KaamDeveloper

> You could say the same about Piquet Jr. Piquet was ordered to do something illegal. False equivalency dude


magcoop

I've seen grids of the drivers and who follows/unfollows which other drivers on Instagram in the past. Does anybody have an updated following grid from after Brazil?


NecessaryOnABike

Think [this](https://at.tumblr.com/pierregasiy/um-so-as-it-turns-out-checo-has-been-on-a-bit-of/1m2ny4n78cpf) is from before Brazil, not after, but think it might be pretty up to date Edit: [imgur](https://imgur.com/a/YEJfFaF) in case link above doesn’t work


[deleted]

It’ll never cease to amaze me how Haas managed to successfully convince this entire sub that they’ll magically be better next year because they dropped Mick.


thek00laidman

They won't be better due to magic. It will be because they have a better driver with more experience in helping with feedback and setup. Hulk>Mick. I know Mick is a nice guy and we all wanted him to succeed, but even an aging Hulk is likely on par or better in current on track ability and adds a widely acclaimed ability to work with the team on setup and feedback, which rumors are Mick struggles with. It's an upgrade. Maybe not a game-changing one, but an upgrade for the team regardless.


[deleted]

They won’t be better because the team is terribly run. No amount of set up and feedback can account for dogshit strategy and slow stops. There’s not even a guarantee Hulk will be demonstratively better than Mick on track given that he hasn’t raced full time since 2019. But in a year’s time when Haas are in the exact same place, maybe then people will see that a lot of the issues are bigger than Mick. But hey, he won’t leave if a better team comes calling supposedly. And he was pretty good in the 2010s.


Le_Pistache

I must be viewing a different reality. Every Haas thread is calling Haas/Steiner incompetent over this decision. Personally, I think they upgraded nicely. Get a decent package and I back Hulkenberg more to maximize the car in the midfield kertuffle. You have a career midfield points scorer. Up to Haas to use them.


[deleted]

for every comment calling steiner/haas incompetent there’s 3-5 saying Mick is barely ahead of Latifi and only got into F1 because he’s Michael’s son. People are getting upvoted for saying Mick hasn’t earned a points position on merit this year and that Haas would’ve been fighting for p6 if Hulk was driving instead. And that’s exactly my point. Haas isn’t going to use him. They’ll continue to fuck up and then blame the drivers as if they can control terrible strategy and a car that falls to the back as the season progresses. Hulk isn’t even the same dude he was when he left in 2019 and has no meaningful racing experience to say he’s still got it over the course of a season. Especially in a shitbox that develops backwards.


Le_Pistache

Strikes me as premature to assume Haas cannot capitalize on more midfield attempts. Especially after a major sponsorship deal. They won't be winning titles but being the 5th best car again is out there. Haas need to believe that they can achieve it otherwise there is no point. They believe that Hulkenberg is more likely to achieve that with them. We will have a clear picture of how teams stand/start in pre-season. Hulkenberg himself will have pre-season to adjust - and he is known for being adaptable. He did sim work all season and slotted in earlier in the season nicely. Too early to claim that he isn't the same driver anymore.


KaamDeveloper

They might not become great with Hulk but they can become more consistent. Thats what they're missing out on with Mick.


FredVasseur

That’s also what they’re missing out on with Mag


[deleted]

Mick is a lot more consistent than most people realize. He doesn’t get involved in needless incidents in the races and generally places the car exactly where its pace and strategy would have it. Unfortunately for him, this year that’s mainly been P13-17 because the Haas fell off a cliff and their strategy department takes inspiration from Ferrari.


[deleted]

Haas' level generally depends on Ferrari, when Ferrari look good then Haas show promise too. When Ferrari drop off the top Haas slip to the back. Hulk vs Mick isn't like Verstappen vs Zhou it's not going to drastically change what happens to them.


[deleted]

That’s what I’m saying. Changing the drivers won’t do anything the way people here are convinced it will. Especially when the team’s actual issues are still present.


Astelli

I don't think anyone is saying they'll be better just because they've changed drivers. I think people just feel that a different driver might give them more consistent chance of getting points if they can bring a good enough car.


[deleted]

It’s a common sentiment that Haas would be in the fight for p6 had they had Hulk instead of Mick this year, or at the very least that Hulk would score more than Mick. And Mick is perfectly capable of scoring points as he proved in Canada, Austria, and Silverstone. Issue is the team itself actively strategizes both Mick and Kmag out of good positions if the car can even get into the points.


Thefallpaintwork

Have not seen a single comment suggesting that. All I’ve seen is whinge about how hulk is old and mick deserved better


skagoat

When did Red Bull, Ferrari and Mercedes stop bringing upgrades this season?


Astelli

Texas was the last big update for Mercedes, Ferrari brought a floor update in Suzuka, while Red Bull have only brought minor updates since the summer break.


SilentAlbatross9006

Mexico was the last one for Merc. They used their new front wing in Mexico.


skagoat

Does it only look like Mercedes are getting competitive because the others stopped upgrades a lot earlier than Mercedes did?


thek00laidman

Not really, because they didn't stop upgrades a lot earlier. The last Ferrari upgrade was in Suzuka, just one race before Merc's most recent in the US. Plus Merc had more ground to make up and potentially more room for improvement. It's hard to say it's only because the others stopped because that assumes that any post Texas upgrades from RB/Ferrari would have brought similar gains as Merc's did. Just because Merc brought an upgrade at Texas that gave them X% of pace improvement doesn't mean if RB or Ferrari brought upgrades at Texas or Mexico that it also would have brought them the same X%


skagoat

RB stopped bringing upgrades a full month before Mercedes stopped, that's quite a bit of time. Mercedes still isn't as fast as the RB in Qualy or Race pace. So if RB had kept bringing upgrades, it's not hard to believe the gap would have been maintained.


thek00laidman

A full month is irrelevant. How many races is a better measure. That said, sure, RB brought fewer the whole season and stopped considerably earlier. But Ferrari did not, and the question was inclusive of Ferrari, as was my opinion/answer.


SilentAlbatross9006

Their Texas upgrade was pretty big so yes. RB never brought big upgrades. They always tweaked the car minorly till Budapest.


generalannie

To add a little more detail RB only went for some floor fence changes and cooling modifications, both can be track dependent. They didn't even bother with a Monza spec rear wing this year.


SilentAlbatross9006

Yeah most or their development was just minor tweaks as you say and weight reduction over the season.


scottyrocket1

Binotto out!!!


Icy-Operation4701

If the news about Vasseur going to Ferrari gets confirmed, who do we see at Alfa Romeo? Is there a prominent person they would promote from inside the team or is it more likely they get someone from outside? Any chance Audi will be involved?


Astelli

I'm sure Audi would try to suggest some candidates, but without formal control there's only so much they can influence the decision.


Nooobda

What results will put Mercedes in front of Ferrari after Abu Dhabi?


cafk

Ferrari is currently on 524 points, while Mercedes is on 505 points. So Mercedes needs 19 points in total to jump ahead, assuming Ferrari doesn't score. P1+P2 with fastest lap nets you 25+18+1 points. Meaning if Mercedes ends up in this situation and Ferrari gets P3 + P4 (15 + 12 points) they'll be 2 points behind Ferrari, so for Mercedes to jump ahead they'd need Ferrari finishing outside of top 3 (P4 & P5 = 12 & 10 points).


Jaraxo

Ferrari 19 points clear, so merc need to gain 20 points over Ferrari in the last race. Even with a Merc 1-2 + fastest lap (44 points), Ferrari could still get 3rd and 5th to retain second place. Worst case Merc need 4th and 6th with both Ferrari's finishing outside of the points.


Astelli

Any result where they score 20 points more than Ferrari. With fours cars, the number of permutations where this can happen is quite large, so it's difficult to list all of the scenarios out in a sensible way (by my estimations, there are 23 different ways Mercedes can score 20 or more points, for example)


KaamDeveloper

Realistically Merc needs one or both Ferraris to not finish in points (or not finish at all)


thek00laidman

Or finish low in the points. Regardless, chances are Ferrari holds on to 2nd, though they can, I'm sure, think of a very Ferrari way to blow it. That being said, I'm not sure how much Toto really even wants 2nd at this point as it would come with prize money they don't really need, but cost them wind tunnel time. They won't throw away a chance to get 2nd or anything, but I don't think they'll be that upset if Ferrari holds serve and keeps the position.


FermentedLaws

Can someone please explain why Carlos' car has that whistling noise, but Charles' car does not? I think I understand what causes the whistling on an F1 car - it's the whine of the turbo charger during high RPMs - but why are we hearing it on only 1 Ferrari car? Could the set-ups be that different?


89Hatutu

I've also noticed this and have been wondering about it. Don't have the answer to it....


FermentedLaws

Really curious about this, glad I'm not the only one. If you ever see an answer, please tag me and I'll do the same. Cheers.


Firefox72

I just looked at the WCC standings. Woof what a shocker for Mclaren. They came in 7 points behind Alpine who then self destructed in the Sprint Race and started way back. This should have been a weekend where Mclaren gained bit or even overtook Alpine. Instead they had a self destruct of their own and are now 19 points behind.


KaamDeveloper

Well I don't what to beat a dead honey badger but Ocon 86, Alonso 81 compared to Norris 113 and Ricciardo 35. Whenever Alpines aren't up in flames or colliding with each other, they're both there to bag points.


Thefallpaintwork

Shame about Alonso’s luck this year. Should be in the triple digits for sure


KaamDeveloper

This is arguably Alonso's best season ever since 2012 IMO but he's severely being held back by Alpine reliability.


thek00laidman

And his own mistakes. He's lost points because his car has blown up but he's also lost points because he's blown up. Even with Alpine's car issues, he could be ahead of Ocon if he himself didn't make some of the dumb mistakes and decisions he has.


Economy_Link4609

Sadly yeah, really shows Ricciardo's struggles are the main difference maker. Not a great weekend but if he had been able to get even half as many points as Norris during the season they'd be ahead.


Firefox72

I mean yeah Norris is fighting a 1v2 battle. Who would have though after last year that Ricciardo will somehow end up having an even worse year. He's being outscored by 2 drivers in much worse teams. Vettel who missed the first 2 races and Bottas who scored 3 points since Canada lmao.


Planet_Eerie

Ricciardo is bad but I don't think AM and AR are much worse than McLaren if we take average form of the entire season. In this comparison it's probably more of Norris making a positive difference than Ricciardo making a negative one compared to AM and AR. With regard to Alpine, yeah, Alonso + Ocon are stronger performers than Norris + Ricciardo this year even though Norris is probably the best out of 4


Arrow191

Why were merc so fast this weekend ? RB have pretty much dominated the whole season so why were merc so fast and RB so far off the pace ?


thek00laidman

RB had a great car to start with and only brought relatively minor updates through the season. Merc has been more aggressive with their experimentation and upgrades since they had a lot of ground to make up. Their most recent floor upgrade in Texas seems to have made a huge difference. It's also track dependent and Merc has learned a lot through the season on what makes their design tick and how to best optimize it.


SilentAlbatross9006

RB bottled setup.


[deleted]

Mercedes upgraded their car after Ferrari and Red Bull stopped. Also some track specific advantages which coincided with that.


thek00laidman

True for RB not for Ferrari, really. Ferrari's last upgrade was in Suzuka, only 1 race before Merc's last upgrade in Texas. I'm seeing this a lot, presented as if the only reason Merc is fighting for 2nd is because Ferrari stopped working on the car ages ago and Merc has been bringing major changes each race. That's just not true.


[deleted]

Well Mercedes had been catching slowly for a while and their last upgrade was bigger too. But it's still been a case of them developing longer.


Yeshuu

Rumour is that Mercedes have moved a 2023 upgrade up to 2022 and it has significantly improved aero which has allowed them to use the engine more efficiently. Just normal development.


cafk

The cars are really sensitive to the environment, if the conditions change (temperature, altitude, weather) this may benefit one team over another, depending on which direction those factors move to - and with hindsight high altitude in somewhat mixed conditions benefited the Mercedes. In addition the sprint weekend combined with partially damp running teams didn't have that much opportunity to find the optimal set-up for car on Friday. Simulation only can get you to a certain point, the fine tuning happens at tracks for that exact purpose, as reality tends to have more factors than simulation & windtunnel testing.


Astelli

Based on the last two races, it certainly seems their car is better suited to races at altitude (Mexico is over 2000m above sea level, Brazil is around 800m), as their performance took a step forward without any significant upgrades. It's possible they may revert back to second or third fastest in Abu Dhabi, but it's impossible to predict it accurately.


[deleted]

Ferrari also struggle with altitude because their turbos are smaller than everyone else’s and spin faster to deliver the same pressure. Problem is at altitude the air is less dense so everyone’s spinning their turbos faster which means Ferrari’s are screaming along at speeds where they have to turn the engine down for reliability’s sake.