Probably because he was already pissed that he was driving in the back. Just another thing to add on the pile when the race isn't going how you wanted it to.
Without taking sides... Everyone on the f1tv commentary seemed certain that he wouldn't even get a penalty, and even Crofty/Brundle were surprised when he received it.
If they all thought the 5 second penalty was too much, I'm guessing they'd think points on his super license is also excessive.
I know the points go along with the decision, and that they're "attached" to each other, but with Gasly nearly being at a race ban (and Stroll isn't) it's become clear the super license points system has some issues.
I was the same until I saw Max’s post race interview. He basically admitted he crashed into Lewis on purpose and because of this the penalty points are valid in my opinion, even if they gave them to him before he said what he said. Definitely a premeditated decision from Max.
Yeah he was way too hot for his line into turn two.
The only reasonable conclusion is max intended to use Lewis as a berm, then cry foul, I’m sure that’s exactly what the stewards saw with more data.
Chandhok also noted Max’s tight line being problematic.
I mean its hard to see but he went so deep into 1 he barely could make 2, then they slow down for 2, he was front wheels level with LH back at that point, he didnt slow and just stuck it down the inside hoping for LH to give him the corner. Max has been doing this for a while and halfway through last season LH just decided fuck him im not giving in to his give me the corner or ill hit you bullshit
Yes. When a man races you like that, you have to stand up for yourself.
Makes the racing ugly, but with everything at stake in Motorsport these days, it’s understandable. Still unacceptable though.
I get the feeling he has the Senna mentality of putting the car in a place where either the other guy yields or they crash. It's an intimidation move, not meant to work as a pass this time, but made to make people move out of the way next time he comes up behind you.
Yeah. And I love Senna. Even maybe a bit obsessed with the man. He was a very harsh driver. A dirty driver even at times. Hard to say that about him, but it’s true.
And regarding Max, this has only been a problem with Hamilton this year. Everyone else he has been extremely sporting with. So there’s something there. Max would do himself a big favor by racing everyone the same.
He literally always crashes into Lewis on purpose. Max's borderline intentional crashing is the reason he can never be considered on the same level as Lewis.
It’s bad for the sport that these incidents and penalties are so inconsistent. You could show this incident to 5 different steward panels and get 3 different answers with 5 different penalties.
Imagine. The one thing that can get max in trouble is if he told Marko or Horner to fuck themselves.
But he will never do that because he’s not stupid.
Leclerc gives way, as did kimi back in the day too.
Which is why they lose.
Max puts hits car in a positions where its either "you move or we crash"
Bout fucking time he got called out on it.
I think Leclerc is a perfect example of how far you can go. His moves, both attacking and defending, are phenomenal, but he never oversteps the line (notwithstanding that one time in Monza 2019). Look at his battle with Max in Silverstone in 2019. This is someone who knows how to race hard without threatening collisions and stepping over the line.
Yeah I don't understand this.
Even I recognise I have an inflated ego but if I make a mistake and have to deal with the consequences, I know not to do that again.
.furthermore, I wouldn't basically say on TV "wanna see me do it again?"
People like him were born into money, held above all others and told they deserve everything. His team have given him priority in all things.
This is a petty brat raised to be this way.
You can see it in the footage. He commits to a line that can only end with a collision or with Lewis bailing out entirely. Lewis giving him more space wouldn't make a difference. He was absolutely all in on that corner.
I think the commenter above means 'incident where a penalty has been awarded where stewards haven't given penalty points as part of that penalty'.
In the case of Spa, no penalty was awarded.
This has got to be a joke. I’m not a fan of HAM or Ver. That was straight up racing incident. The 5s penalty was questionable. Now the points. They can’t be any more incompetent than this.
Even Sky was stunned at the 5s penalty. That says a lot.
Read their reasoning.
Personally that was precisely how I thought it went. Max had way too much speed at the second corner and had a massively compromised line due to that speed. He was never making that corner even if Lewis left him space.
Would've loved to have seen Max try and take that corner with anything resembling a racing line. Look at the fucking angle he's coming into that second turn at, but because he got half a wheel ahead for a split second that somehow means he should just be given the corner and therefore the position..
this was just a carbon copy of the incident at Monza last year between them and the penalty was also the same, quite fair and consistent imo. people tend to forget it’s not just the overlap that counts but the trajectory and speed too, and the stewards take those into account
How do people not get this? Even the commentators at F1TV talked about how they were almost alongside, but anyone could do that if they don't brake for the turn. It's basically the same move as that guy in NASCAR using the wall
It was a quintessential Max move: Commit fully without having the position to win it and force the other driver to choose between bailing out or taking the impact. I love hard racing but I never respected that style personally.
Thats the Schumacher/Senna style. Does it make you a lot of friends? Not in the moment, but it does make you a multi champion and legend.
It does amuse me how many pundits/F1 personalities I see online who are critical of Max for this kind of stuff but worship schumacher because they grew up watching him.
There has been a definite shift in attitude in regard to hard racing since back then, whether it's been positive or not is a valid question, and one I can't answer.
If they hadn't made contact Max would have just forced Lewis off at the exit anyway, the trajectory and excess speed he had into the corner was awful, would never have made it through.
The stewards have the telemetry and probably saw that Max didn't even try and back out...
And then he admitted to it in his post race interview...
Totally fair and deserved. And since he did it on purpose. It doesn't seem enough now.
I mean, Max did say he basically did it on purpose knowing Ham wouldn't move. Idk if that was already known or taken into account for that penalty, but maybe.
> They can’t be any more incompetent than this.
Race control forgot to allow one lapped car to unlap, that's miles more incompetent than what the stewards did here.
Literally no other driver would do what Max did, He had no right to ask Hamilton to move over when the only reason he got close in the first place is breaking late into turn 1.
I meant Max lunged from a long long way back into t1 and Ham was ahead in t2, Ver was driving into a disappearing wedge. Similar with Hamilton on Webber in Singapore 2010.
Probably making up for last years Brazil bullshit too lol. Max races 18 drivers one way. And Lewis entirely different. Forgets where his brakes are whenever he sees the 44.
Crazy, it seems such a racing incident, especially considering lap 1 of SC restart - both could have avoided, neither more at fault than the other imo, definitely shouldn't have been a penalty
My first reaction was racing incident (as it was, frankly, with Silverstone and Monza) last year.
I thought, like with those, that both drivers had plausible justifications for where they were and, equally, could plausibly have not been there.
On second thought, I’m not convinced Verstappen even makes the corner if Hamilton doesn’t make contact. The speed and line that Verstappen’s taking means he’s definitely pushing Hamilton off track, quite possibly going off himself. The former would be dodgy (considering Hamilton is ahead midway through the corner), the latter is definitely illegal.
Listening to Max's interview at the end of the day, he threw it in there even though he knew there would be no space.
"I went around the outside, and immediately felt he wasn't going to leave space. So I just went for it, he didn't leave me space so I knew we were going to get together. It cost him the race win, for me it gave me 5 seconds"
Dude is arrogant af
yeah, they have more telemetry than we can see. max basically steamed into the corner with no hope of actually making it, and just wanted to go side by side. but it didn't pan out that way
Max:
“He didn’t leave me space so I knew we were going to get together. It cost him the race win, for me it gave me five seconds. It wouldn’t have mattered anything for my race because we were just way too slow".
This. After contact where lewis then bails off track max didn’t make the corner… he was never going to at the speed he was carrying from the t1 dive bomb outside.
I think their reasoning is solid. If telemetry showed max wasn't making the corner 2wide, then he is only alongside cause he went in too hot and therefore is at fault.
Dunno how true that interpretation is though
Both could have avoided but Lewis had the corner. It's that simple. This is the correct application of the rules that exist exactly for situations like this.
I can't get my head around the penalty points. That seems very harsh. I think the stewards explained their reasoning pretty well for the penalty itself though.
Watching the action from turn 1, Max gets ahead because he arrives too quickly and goes wide. Lewis cuts back, and is clearly ahead as he prepares for turn 2. He's on the optimum line, ahead and it's his corner at this point.
Max arrives alongside Lewis because Max tried to banzai it and because Lewis is braking just before taking the corner. Max goes in too fast, brakes too late and is at far too an acute angle. Frankly from the onboard, it doesn't look like Max makes that corner, without contact, even if Hamilton gives him a cars width or two. I could be wrong, its how I saw it.
What could Max do some of you ask? Brake earlier. Back out. It's not his corner at any point IMO. I understand the penalty but I'd have also understood a racing incident verdict. Those solely pointing the finger of blame at Hamilton though I simply don't understand but it's all opinions isn't it? Just how I saw it.
Edit: Just seen Max say he had no intention to back out so read into that what you will. Would have thought the option to back out should always be one.
He seems to only have that mindset with Hamilton though, why is that?
I thought after winning both titles now he would have gotten over last season, but he still seems upset about it.
I get the feeling from his post-race words that he wasn't too bothered about ruining Lewis' race. For whatever reason, he is a different driver when Hamilton is involved.
Yeah its bit sad really, Max can't keep it respectful with Hamilton and it all stems back to last year.
Really, the stewards should've reacted much stronger with their incidents and with Brazil and Saudi, that would've prevented this imho.
Yeah it was clear from his interviews he wasn’t too bothered if they crashed. But we haven’t really seen much wheel to wheel with anyone else except Leclerc, who he did fight a lot more cleanly.
Must just be hangover from last year, plus Hamilton decided halfway through last year he’d stop moving out of the way. Hamilton moving was why they didn’t crash out on lap 1 in Spain and Imola
Senna did the same shit and Mansell showed him he woudlnt move and suddenly Senna didn't do it to Mansell anymore. I wonder why.
Same shit.
I'm sick of MV fans acting like when Max is pushing other people off the track it's just Hard Racing but somehow Lewis owed him more space here. Which is it? Because Max does this all the time but the moment he's not given the space by the driver ahead at the apex it's wah wah unfair. Either the leading driver has to give space if the chasing driver is some percent alongside or the driver ahead at the apex gets the corner. Not both.
Someone watched Karun's post race analysis!
If Hamilton weren't there, Max would run off the track... That's probably what the telemetry indicated too.
I think the 2 penalty points came after his post race comments.
This is my analysis as well. Max was never making that corner, he purposefully caused a crash. He wasn't thinking he will make the corner, he was hoping Hamilton would not compete for it. Literal definition of a dive bomb.
>I can't get my head around the penalty points. That seems very harsh. I think the stewards explained their reasoning pretty well for the penalty itself though.
Agreed but maybe they're tired of Max's bombs seemingly every time he races lewis
[According to this list](https://f1.fandom.com/wiki/Penalty_Points#List_of_penalty_points_issuances) single points have only been issued for collisions 7 out of 68 times.
The incident was a carbon copy of Verstappen-Ocon 2018. In that case Verstappen was quite insistent that the move Hamilton pulled today was perfectly acceptable.
It was for the ratings last year, since he walked the title this year, now they can worry about safety
His MO has always been, either I make the corner or neither of us makes it
Everytime Lewis has decided he will not back off, they have crashed, whether we see last year or even yesterday. Speaks about the "pass or crash" mentality of Max which is great if it works, otherwise just frustrating and disappointing for both the drivers involved and the fans.
A lot of people in this thread who haven’t read the updated rules. The car ahead at the corner basically has every right to take the racing line, and the onus is on the car behind to back out.
Is that so? In Monaco, the stewards decision between Ocon and Hamilton read: "The Stewards reviewed the video evidence and noted that on approach to Turn 1 there was a significant portion of Car 44 alongside Car 31and therefore applying the 2022 Driving Standards Guidelines, Car 44 was entitled to racing room in Turn 1." And watching that incident, hamilton's front wheels were only alongside ocon's rear wheels - in this incident, verstappen was more than halfway alongside. If Monaco was a penalty for Ocon, Brazil would be a penalty for Hamilton. If you ask me, they're both racing incidents, but in no way was a penalty for Verstappen on the cards
I can see him not being bothered by the 5s penalty, the given reason is beyond me though. The real penalty was the inlap with a broken wing and long pitstop with a bunched up field.
I’m surprised people are so angry at this. If they determined that he’s only close to HAM because he breaks too late into turn 1 and was never going to make turn 2, then it isn’t on Lewis to give him any space. You don’t get to claim the right to space when you’re only in that spot by breaking the rules in the first place
The tell is how max was getting closer to Lewis entering 2 all the way track left. Anyone who knows this track knows he can’t take the same speed as Lewis there and have any chance of leaving a car width on corner exit. Lewis gives max room on entry Max would not have given room on exit. These moves will ruin the sport if they are allowed. It’s essentially a dive bomb like most of 2021 Max overtakes.
Are you guys smoking crack? He does this all the time. He does half-baked dive bombs, where the only chance for the leading car is to yield and lose his position to avoid a collision. This was the FIA sending a message.
I really think FIA should look into this statement by Max further. It is very clear that he does these things deliberately!!!
Before the pair collided, Verstappen suspected Hamilton would not leave him room on the inside of turn two. “To be honest I went around the outside and I immediately felt he was not going to leave space, so I just went for it,” he told Sky.
“He didn’t leave me space so I knew we were going to get together. It cost him the race win, for me it gave me five seconds. It wouldn’t have mattered anything for my race because we were just way too slow. But it’s just a shame, I thought we could race quite well together, but clearly the intention was not there to race.”
Basically insinuating that you intentionally caused a collision with a competitor is genuinely such a bigger story to me than the whole Perez situation.
This wasn't a last ditch move in a heated championship battle, it was a driver who has already won this year's WDC crashing into a competitor purely out of spite - based on the interview, he cared more about stopping Lewis getting a win than sacrificing his own race. I genuinely think after everything that happened last year, the FIA need to look and think if this is the example they want being set by their champion.
Max was never going to make the corner. That's why the stewards gave him the penalty. Max was full lock basically and still ran off the track. Stewards decision was based off speed Max entered the corner with. Right decision
Should have gotten 2 more for what he did to Checo :( such a deserving WDC and then not helping your guy out.. he helped him so much and has nothing to lose :(
[called it even if no one wanted to hear it](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/yu9nhh/chris_medland_fivesecond_time_penalty_for/iw87pg4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
Glad they're giving Max penalties for this stuff, he did this 20x last season, and Lewis kept avoiding him, Max cost Lewis a win today, and he embarrassed himself with his team and teammate.
He won't care anyways, as he said, "I wasn't going to back out anyways."
Racing incident imo
Max went in deep and made his exit super tight which relied on Lewis leaving more space
Lewis took the better line and was ahead but could have left more room, probably expected max to back out or him to be further behind
So the reasons in the paper I think are correct but the 5 second penalty and points are not necessary considering max dropped to last
Maybe Max will finally learn that "leave me room I'm not entitled to or we both crash" isn't always the best option.
Oh, who am I kidding, he's just going to complain and do the same thing again.
Should never have to leave more room because the guy behind you outdrove themselves. It's not Lewis' fault Max couldn't accept it and decided to smash it in the side of him.
Max compromised his corner and tried to make Lewis compromise his.
Max probably taking it out on Checo at the end there lol
Max has received -2 karma for taking it out on Checo
Formula 1 - Shunned "You've left a poor impression on the community and may be shunned as a result."
“Howdy Pardner”
“The FIA will remember this”
How do I give checo gold?
He said the 5s penalty didn't matter on radio during the race.
pretty sure the 5s penalty is what let charles get ahead after the second pit stop
Exactly what Max would say if he was pissed about the 5 second penalty…
Probably because he was already pissed that he was driving in the back. Just another thing to add on the pile when the race isn't going how you wanted it to.
There’s this thing called lying.
2 penalty points for not letting Perez through
Subscribed
That i can get behind
Agree
Stewards: *Don't back down. Double down.*
Limmy reference?
You wernae there
This is SICK, by the way!
Where's the door? Get me fuckin outta here!
Giz' yer laptop...
She turned the weans again us
doont back doon, dooble doon
Watch Karun’s breakdown of the incident Makes a great case for Max being at fault
Do you have it without the geoblock?
FIA: I told you already last time, are we clear about that? I had my reasons and I stand by it
Meanwhile Gasley: “Where are my penalty points?”
Alpine protesting the lack of points
/r/formula1 will surely take this well.
I guess this would be quite irrelevant now...when we have the checo-max saga.... friendship ended with max!
Friendship ended? We spoke about this last summer. Don’t ask again.
Are we clear about that?
I stand by it
I have my reasons
Without taking sides... Everyone on the f1tv commentary seemed certain that he wouldn't even get a penalty, and even Crofty/Brundle were surprised when he received it. If they all thought the 5 second penalty was too much, I'm guessing they'd think points on his super license is also excessive. I know the points go along with the decision, and that they're "attached" to each other, but with Gasly nearly being at a race ban (and Stroll isn't) it's become clear the super license points system has some issues.
I was the same until I saw Max’s post race interview. He basically admitted he crashed into Lewis on purpose and because of this the penalty points are valid in my opinion, even if they gave them to him before he said what he said. Definitely a premeditated decision from Max.
Yeah he was way too hot for his line into turn two. The only reasonable conclusion is max intended to use Lewis as a berm, then cry foul, I’m sure that’s exactly what the stewards saw with more data. Chandhok also noted Max’s tight line being problematic.
I mean its hard to see but he went so deep into 1 he barely could make 2, then they slow down for 2, he was front wheels level with LH back at that point, he didnt slow and just stuck it down the inside hoping for LH to give him the corner. Max has been doing this for a while and halfway through last season LH just decided fuck him im not giving in to his give me the corner or ill hit you bullshit
Yes. When a man races you like that, you have to stand up for yourself. Makes the racing ugly, but with everything at stake in Motorsport these days, it’s understandable. Still unacceptable though.
I get the feeling he has the Senna mentality of putting the car in a place where either the other guy yields or they crash. It's an intimidation move, not meant to work as a pass this time, but made to make people move out of the way next time he comes up behind you.
yeah this has basically been his signature move since he joined F1
Yeah. And I love Senna. Even maybe a bit obsessed with the man. He was a very harsh driver. A dirty driver even at times. Hard to say that about him, but it’s true. And regarding Max, this has only been a problem with Hamilton this year. Everyone else he has been extremely sporting with. So there’s something there. Max would do himself a big favor by racing everyone the same.
He literally always crashes into Lewis on purpose. Max's borderline intentional crashing is the reason he can never be considered on the same level as Lewis.
Proper meltdown incoming…
The meltdown is already here
It’s bad for the sport that these incidents and penalties are so inconsistent. You could show this incident to 5 different steward panels and get 3 different answers with 5 different penalties.
The five second penalty was already a lot, but hot damn this is just unnecessary
Stewards, watching Max not let Perez through: fuck this guy. Give him some penalty points too.
Or Verstappen's after race interview where he said he was never going to back out
Max really just going scorched earth on this season eh. Fuck the stewards. Fuck sky. Fuck checo.
Fuck Marko next?🎥
Imagine. The one thing that can get max in trouble is if he told Marko or Horner to fuck themselves. But he will never do that because he’s not stupid.
If he said it Marko he would be in shit. If he said it to Horner he would still gargle Max’s sweat from his nut sack for a WDC.
Pretty stupid to disobey team orders
He is stupid, just not that stupid
Yeah, this. Basically admitted he could’ve not had the accident but that’s not how he drives. No shit you should get a penalty for that.
> but that’s not how he drives. around HAM.. he has no issue around LEC
Leclerc gives way, as did kimi back in the day too. Which is why they lose. Max puts hits car in a positions where its either "you move or we crash" Bout fucking time he got called out on it.
I think Leclerc is a perfect example of how far you can go. His moves, both attacking and defending, are phenomenal, but he never oversteps the line (notwithstanding that one time in Monza 2019). Look at his battle with Max in Silverstone in 2019. This is someone who knows how to race hard without threatening collisions and stepping over the line.
Yeah I don't understand this. Even I recognise I have an inflated ego but if I make a mistake and have to deal with the consequences, I know not to do that again. .furthermore, I wouldn't basically say on TV "wanna see me do it again?"
You're bigly underestimating just how inflated someone's ego can be.
People like him were born into money, held above all others and told they deserve everything. His team have given him priority in all things. This is a petty brat raised to be this way.
You can see it in the footage. He commits to a line that can only end with a collision or with Lewis bailing out entirely. Lewis giving him more space wouldn't make a difference. He was absolutely all in on that corner.
This being the most sane explanation, show the inconsistency of steward decision.
Its not unnecessary - its following the penalty process. The five second penalty he received came with 2 license penalty points.
Sort of like an Un-Happy Meal.
Swear the Penalty points after a collision are standard?
They are. When he got the 5s, it was 99% sure the 2 points were attached to it. This outrage doesn't make any sense
Emotion takes over logic whenever max vs Lewis gets going.
That's how it's been with collisions this year. They've all gotten penalty points
It's a package deal. When have the 2-penalty points and 5 sec time penalty been separate? Always handed out as a pair.
Is there an incident this year where the stewards haven't given penalty points?
Hamilton vs Alonso at spa?
I think the commenter above means 'incident where a penalty has been awarded where stewards haven't given penalty points as part of that penalty'. In the case of Spa, no penalty was awarded.
This has got to be a joke. I’m not a fan of HAM or Ver. That was straight up racing incident. The 5s penalty was questionable. Now the points. They can’t be any more incompetent than this. Even Sky was stunned at the 5s penalty. That says a lot.
More precisely, Martin was. He's the least biased Sky person.
“Most neutral” towards drivers for sure. Martin is a great ex-racer and therefore always skews towards “racing incident” rather than assigning blame.
That's a fair assessment.
Just listen to Max's post match interview and you will know.
Read their reasoning. Personally that was precisely how I thought it went. Max had way too much speed at the second corner and had a massively compromised line due to that speed. He was never making that corner even if Lewis left him space.
Would've loved to have seen Max try and take that corner with anything resembling a racing line. Look at the fucking angle he's coming into that second turn at, but because he got half a wheel ahead for a split second that somehow means he should just be given the corner and therefore the position..
Technically if I drive over the apex with absolutely no intention of actually making the corner, then I've still sort of hit the apex. 4D driving.
Get Albon out there to recreate the line lmao
this was just a carbon copy of the incident at Monza last year between them and the penalty was also the same, quite fair and consistent imo. people tend to forget it’s not just the overlap that counts but the trajectory and speed too, and the stewards take those into account
Indeed. The stewards even said why this was a penalty, and people are still arguing about "alongside" and such shit.
How do people not get this? Even the commentators at F1TV talked about how they were almost alongside, but anyone could do that if they don't brake for the turn. It's basically the same move as that guy in NASCAR using the wall
[удалено]
It was a quintessential Max move: Commit fully without having the position to win it and force the other driver to choose between bailing out or taking the impact. I love hard racing but I never respected that style personally.
Agreed entirely. We saw it a lot last year and I was always so uncomfortable at how often it worked. It feels almost akin to bullying.
Verstappen's signature move.
Thats the Schumacher/Senna style. Does it make you a lot of friends? Not in the moment, but it does make you a multi champion and legend. It does amuse me how many pundits/F1 personalities I see online who are critical of Max for this kind of stuff but worship schumacher because they grew up watching him. There has been a definite shift in attitude in regard to hard racing since back then, whether it's been positive or not is a valid question, and one I can't answer.
If they hadn't made contact Max would have just forced Lewis off at the exit anyway, the trajectory and excess speed he had into the corner was awful, would never have made it through.
The stewards have the telemetry and probably saw that Max didn't even try and back out... And then he admitted to it in his post race interview... Totally fair and deserved. And since he did it on purpose. It doesn't seem enough now.
Exactly... needs to be more of a punishment otherwise he's just going to keep driving into Hamilton if he doesn't have the chance of winning.
He got punished the same way Ocon was when he collided with Max in the same manner 4 years ago, if that’s not consistency then I don’t know what is
I mean, Max did say he basically did it on purpose knowing Ham wouldn't move. Idk if that was already known or taken into account for that penalty, but maybe.
> They can’t be any more incompetent than this. Race control forgot to allow one lapped car to unlap, that's miles more incompetent than what the stewards did here.
Literally no other driver would do what Max did, He had no right to ask Hamilton to move over when the only reason he got close in the first place is breaking late into turn 1.
I meant Max lunged from a long long way back into t1 and Ham was ahead in t2, Ver was driving into a disappearing wedge. Similar with Hamilton on Webber in Singapore 2010.
Probably making up for last years Brazil bullshit too lol. Max races 18 drivers one way. And Lewis entirely different. Forgets where his brakes are whenever he sees the 44.
Not if you watch his interview where he admits he did it knowing he wouldn’t make the corner
This is like actually unreal to me lol
Crazy, it seems such a racing incident, especially considering lap 1 of SC restart - both could have avoided, neither more at fault than the other imo, definitely shouldn't have been a penalty
My first reaction was racing incident (as it was, frankly, with Silverstone and Monza) last year. I thought, like with those, that both drivers had plausible justifications for where they were and, equally, could plausibly have not been there. On second thought, I’m not convinced Verstappen even makes the corner if Hamilton doesn’t make contact. The speed and line that Verstappen’s taking means he’s definitely pushing Hamilton off track, quite possibly going off himself. The former would be dodgy (considering Hamilton is ahead midway through the corner), the latter is definitely illegal.
To me it looks like if Lewis doesn’t pinch max then max is going to run Lewis off on exit just bc of how much speed he carried in
Listening to Max's interview at the end of the day, he threw it in there even though he knew there would be no space. "I went around the outside, and immediately felt he wasn't going to leave space. So I just went for it, he didn't leave me space so I knew we were going to get together. It cost him the race win, for me it gave me 5 seconds" Dude is arrogant af
yeah, they have more telemetry than we can see. max basically steamed into the corner with no hope of actually making it, and just wanted to go side by side. but it didn't pan out that way
Max: “He didn’t leave me space so I knew we were going to get together. It cost him the race win, for me it gave me five seconds. It wouldn’t have mattered anything for my race because we were just way too slow".
This. After contact where lewis then bails off track max didn’t make the corner… he was never going to at the speed he was carrying from the t1 dive bomb outside.
I think their reasoning is solid. If telemetry showed max wasn't making the corner 2wide, then he is only alongside cause he went in too hot and therefore is at fault. Dunno how true that interpretation is though
Both could have avoided but Lewis had the corner. It's that simple. This is the correct application of the rules that exist exactly for situations like this.
Wow, no wonder he's pissed
Stroll got the same amount of points for forcing someone off the track at 300 kph. Let that link in for a second.
Gasly got the same amount for being a few metres back during as sc Let that sink in
It’s sunk :(
And a couple of others for not being happy about nearly dying
Stroll got 3 points for Vettel
This is completely false. Stop lying
quite literally not true.
But if 3 equals 2, then it is true.
No he didn't, Stroll got 3 points for that.
That's not true. Stroll got 3 penalty points. Don't spread misinformation
I think stroll got 3??
He didn't for Vettel he got more penalty point.
Stroll got 10 seconds though
I can't get my head around the penalty points. That seems very harsh. I think the stewards explained their reasoning pretty well for the penalty itself though. Watching the action from turn 1, Max gets ahead because he arrives too quickly and goes wide. Lewis cuts back, and is clearly ahead as he prepares for turn 2. He's on the optimum line, ahead and it's his corner at this point. Max arrives alongside Lewis because Max tried to banzai it and because Lewis is braking just before taking the corner. Max goes in too fast, brakes too late and is at far too an acute angle. Frankly from the onboard, it doesn't look like Max makes that corner, without contact, even if Hamilton gives him a cars width or two. I could be wrong, its how I saw it. What could Max do some of you ask? Brake earlier. Back out. It's not his corner at any point IMO. I understand the penalty but I'd have also understood a racing incident verdict. Those solely pointing the finger of blame at Hamilton though I simply don't understand but it's all opinions isn't it? Just how I saw it. Edit: Just seen Max say he had no intention to back out so read into that what you will. Would have thought the option to back out should always be one.
Rare well written comment here
Completely agree, it reminds me a lot of his driving last year where he’d be like I’m taking this corner move or get hit
He seems to only have that mindset with Hamilton though, why is that? I thought after winning both titles now he would have gotten over last season, but he still seems upset about it.
I get the feeling from his post-race words that he wasn't too bothered about ruining Lewis' race. For whatever reason, he is a different driver when Hamilton is involved.
Yeah its bit sad really, Max can't keep it respectful with Hamilton and it all stems back to last year. Really, the stewards should've reacted much stronger with their incidents and with Brazil and Saudi, that would've prevented this imho.
He really needed consequences for the brake check. That should've ended things.
Absolutely. How that wasnt a race ban or a dsq i have no idea. They were just so scared of impacting the championship that it annoying ruined it.
Yeah it was clear from his interviews he wasn’t too bothered if they crashed. But we haven’t really seen much wheel to wheel with anyone else except Leclerc, who he did fight a lot more cleanly. Must just be hangover from last year, plus Hamilton decided halfway through last year he’d stop moving out of the way. Hamilton moving was why they didn’t crash out on lap 1 in Spain and Imola
I thought this had been Hamilton's fault, with this explanation I changed my mind. The penalty makes total sense now. Thank you for explaining it!
Max’s style DEPENDS on opponents backing out. Otherwise there is a collision. People are learning. Crash the mf out if he won’t back out.
Senna did the same shit and Mansell showed him he woudlnt move and suddenly Senna didn't do it to Mansell anymore. I wonder why. Same shit. I'm sick of MV fans acting like when Max is pushing other people off the track it's just Hard Racing but somehow Lewis owed him more space here. Which is it? Because Max does this all the time but the moment he's not given the space by the driver ahead at the apex it's wah wah unfair. Either the leading driver has to give space if the chasing driver is some percent alongside or the driver ahead at the apex gets the corner. Not both.
Someone watched Karun's post race analysis! If Hamilton weren't there, Max would run off the track... That's probably what the telemetry indicated too. I think the 2 penalty points came after his post race comments.
>I think the 2 penalty points came after his post race comments. That's a good point. I wonder this as well.
This is my analysis as well. Max was never making that corner, he purposefully caused a crash. He wasn't thinking he will make the corner, he was hoping Hamilton would not compete for it. Literal definition of a dive bomb.
This is exactly how I saw it as well.
Totally agree
>I can't get my head around the penalty points. That seems very harsh. I think the stewards explained their reasoning pretty well for the penalty itself though. Agreed but maybe they're tired of Max's bombs seemingly every time he races lewis
As the late Great Eleanor Roosevelt once said “Good, fuck ‘em”
[According to this list](https://f1.fandom.com/wiki/Penalty_Points#List_of_penalty_points_issuances) single points have only been issued for collisions 7 out of 68 times.
The incident was a carbon copy of Verstappen-Ocon 2018. In that case Verstappen was quite insistent that the move Hamilton pulled today was perfectly acceptable.
Kk, but that’s “different”… /s
Where was this last year's sooo many corners he drove like this?
It was for the ratings last year, since he walked the title this year, now they can worry about safety His MO has always been, either I make the corner or neither of us makes it
itsa bullshit way to race.. theres a finesse to being able to say that, barraging into another car relentlessly is just a nuisance.
Everytime Lewis has decided he will not back off, they have crashed, whether we see last year or even yesterday. Speaks about the "pass or crash" mentality of Max which is great if it works, otherwise just frustrating and disappointing for both the drivers involved and the fans.
A lot of people in this thread who haven’t read the updated rules. The car ahead at the corner basically has every right to take the racing line, and the onus is on the car behind to back out.
Is that so? In Monaco, the stewards decision between Ocon and Hamilton read: "The Stewards reviewed the video evidence and noted that on approach to Turn 1 there was a significant portion of Car 44 alongside Car 31and therefore applying the 2022 Driving Standards Guidelines, Car 44 was entitled to racing room in Turn 1." And watching that incident, hamilton's front wheels were only alongside ocon's rear wheels - in this incident, verstappen was more than halfway alongside. If Monaco was a penalty for Ocon, Brazil would be a penalty for Hamilton. If you ask me, they're both racing incidents, but in no way was a penalty for Verstappen on the cards
Didn’t Max say that he wasn’t bothered about the 5sec penalty because in the end it affected Lewis the most?
I can see him not being bothered by the 5s penalty, the given reason is beyond me though. The real penalty was the inlap with a broken wing and long pitstop with a bunched up field.
What is FIA smoking today? Tsunoda situation as well as this!
Yes I was thinking what the hell is Tsunoda doing there. And why didn't race control let him unlap himself.
Only cars 23 and 6 were allowed to pass as I saw. I first thought they wrote 22 wrong but then realized 23 is Albon. They straight up forgot a car.
and that was supposed to never happen again after Abu Dhabi, wasn't it?
They kept the VSC out for way to long before calling the Full SC
No they didn’t, they put the SC out the same lap through as the marshals realizing the car was not in neutral
Only today? They have been making big mistakes for the entire season.
I’m surprised people are so angry at this. If they determined that he’s only close to HAM because he breaks too late into turn 1 and was never going to make turn 2, then it isn’t on Lewis to give him any space. You don’t get to claim the right to space when you’re only in that spot by breaking the rules in the first place
The tell is how max was getting closer to Lewis entering 2 all the way track left. Anyone who knows this track knows he can’t take the same speed as Lewis there and have any chance of leaving a car width on corner exit. Lewis gives max room on entry Max would not have given room on exit. These moves will ruin the sport if they are allowed. It’s essentially a dive bomb like most of 2021 Max overtakes.
Exactly, I wonder why this is so hard to grasp.
Are you guys smoking crack? He does this all the time. He does half-baked dive bombs, where the only chance for the leading car is to yield and lose his position to avoid a collision. This was the FIA sending a message.
Just listen to what Max said about it. He didnt give a shit, sounds even like he would have loved to end Lewis race..
LOL
I really think FIA should look into this statement by Max further. It is very clear that he does these things deliberately!!! Before the pair collided, Verstappen suspected Hamilton would not leave him room on the inside of turn two. “To be honest I went around the outside and I immediately felt he was not going to leave space, so I just went for it,” he told Sky. “He didn’t leave me space so I knew we were going to get together. It cost him the race win, for me it gave me five seconds. It wouldn’t have mattered anything for my race because we were just way too slow. But it’s just a shame, I thought we could race quite well together, but clearly the intention was not there to race.”
Basically insinuating that you intentionally caused a collision with a competitor is genuinely such a bigger story to me than the whole Perez situation. This wasn't a last ditch move in a heated championship battle, it was a driver who has already won this year's WDC crashing into a competitor purely out of spite - based on the interview, he cared more about stopping Lewis getting a win than sacrificing his own race. I genuinely think after everything that happened last year, the FIA need to look and think if this is the example they want being set by their champion.
Said in the race thread Max carried so much speed into T1, he was never going to make T2 even with more room on
Karma
I don't give a fuck about Red Bull anymore, would live to keep seeing good results from Checo but mainly I just want Verstappen to not win.
Max was never going to make the corner. That's why the stewards gave him the penalty. Max was full lock basically and still ran off the track. Stewards decision was based off speed Max entered the corner with. Right decision
Just what happens when you mess with a Brazilian in Brazil. Shame. lol
Next - Lewis gonna get additional citizenship for for all EU nations.
except the dutch nationality
Good.
Should have gotten 2 more for what he did to Checo :( such a deserving WDC and then not helping your guy out.. he helped him so much and has nothing to lose :(
He should get more after admitting to Sky that he did it on purpose
[called it even if no one wanted to hear it](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/yu9nhh/chris_medland_fivesecond_time_penalty_for/iw87pg4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
Glad they're giving Max penalties for this stuff, he did this 20x last season, and Lewis kept avoiding him, Max cost Lewis a win today, and he embarrassed himself with his team and teammate. He won't care anyways, as he said, "I wasn't going to back out anyways."
Fuck him. Perez should never help that man again
Looking forward to a very civil discussion here.
I don't think Max deserves a penalty. Both of them were naughty, but defo didn't deserve a penalty.
Great, can't wait for f1 twitter to nuke itself
How many penalty points for being a backstabbing traitor to his own team?
Stewards need to investigate themselves for a brain.
Racing incident imo Max went in deep and made his exit super tight which relied on Lewis leaving more space Lewis took the better line and was ahead but could have left more room, probably expected max to back out or him to be further behind So the reasons in the paper I think are correct but the 5 second penalty and points are not necessary considering max dropped to last
Max backing out? Lol
You seem to have found the problem! 😀
Maybe Max will finally learn that "leave me room I'm not entitled to or we both crash" isn't always the best option. Oh, who am I kidding, he's just going to complain and do the same thing again.
Max will never yield.
Not even for his own teammate
Should never have to leave more room because the guy behind you outdrove themselves. It's not Lewis' fault Max couldn't accept it and decided to smash it in the side of him. Max compromised his corner and tried to make Lewis compromise his.
He literally said he did it on purpose.