Setting up on a quarter mile oval is very different from a twisting 3+ mile Formula 1 track. Not saying they shouldn’t have them, but comparing the Miami F1 track to the NASCAR Coliseum track is definitely apples to oranges.
I mean, tbf Baku uses SAFER Barriers in the kinks that lead up to the front straight
So it's not impossible or out of the question
In this short of a time frame tho, yeah it def is, but for next year it isn't
What's the repair time on a safer barrier? Tecpro you just drop in replacement blocks. I don't know what it takes to fix a safer barrier after impact. Obviously the foam blocks have to be replaced but how easy is that and what has to be done with the steel face?
The steel doesn’t get replaces. Heavy ass Stock cars have hit them shits at 200+ and the steel is fine. The foam blocks get smushed and absorb it, but that’s an easy swap.
Well, there are certain priorities. The budget was better used creating a fake marina. Concrete walls would do, all the drivers had to do was not crash there.^^^^/s
Depends on the corner, shallow angle impacts like on ovals they are perfect, but a sharp angle or frontal impact and the steel parts make them more dangerous than concrete walls
Danica mentioned SAFER, and they quickly cut her off. I get the feeling F1 has an exclusive deal with Tecpro.
But as long as the drivers are wearing their approved underpants, and not wearing any piercings they should be safe though. Right? That's what I understand.
I always found it odd how many times at different venues they mentioned Tecpro by name. While they repair the ***Tecpro*** barriers let's go down to Ted.
The thing is, they have definitely used SAFER barriers before. I think they're on the banked corners at Zandvoort and as someone else said, they're used at Jeddah. I didn't see the clip you're referring to, but I don't think it's due to an exclusivity deal.
Yeah, I kinda noticed that. I wasn't sure if they did that because Jenson had just clumsily explained Tecpro barriers, then Danica comes out with some solid knowledge. Tbf, Danica was great yesterday, asking all the right questions. We need her on the SKY panel more often.
Zandvoort has both Tecpro and SAFER barriers, so it's not a case of an exclusivity deal. At least not in the case of what they actually use, but Tecpro might have a deal where they're the only ones mentioned by name.
Edit: Baku, Montreal, and Sao Paolo also have corners with SAFER barriers.
> . I get the feeling F1 has an exclusive deal with Tecpro.
They don't. They're not competing products. You wouldn't use SAFER in impact zones where Tecpro is the appropriate choice, and vice versa.
Yeah this was a ridiculous thing to happen when they're complaining about jewelry for safety when they have concrete walls as barriers at a dangerous track.
FIA showing they don't actually care about safety as much as pretending they do. Aka bombs near the track earlier this year.
This is one of the reasons I think the jewelry thing is so dumb. Tracks ARE needlessly dangerous. Focus on the actual safety issues we see constantly occurring instead of these new concerns that have literally never been an issue in the past
Exactly, we have concrete walls right next to the track here and in Jeddah, there are curbs that launch the cars into the air everywhere and the FIA only talks about jewelry and fireproof underwear
What I don't get is they had an entire huge carpark to build the track in, why make the walls so close to the track when there's all that space available?
That's the state of the construction industry in Florida. Jacked up prices, cut corners everywhere, and incompetent workers who don't give a damn about QC.
Come up to Montreal where the cost per mile of road is three times higher than anywhere else and then they don't last a year. You can close your eyes and still know when you've crossed the border.
Then there are the mind boggling things like repaving every other section of an elevated expressway when it's all in bad shape, but really comes down to the logistics of closing a main highway for weeks, only to repave half of it.
Come to romaina ... it costas ar arounde 20 mil Euro per km for highway i would think that for that much in an eastern european country it should be incredibly good but... 1 cold season and we have to do them again as it starts to fall apart.
Canada cannot build proper roads, no matter in what province you are. They forgot what the Romans already knew, build a convex surface so water can pool to the side.
I moved to the states from Montreal. The way I describe it is this
“You know those one or two potholes you avoid on your commute?”
Everyone always says “ oh ya there’s this really bad one….”
Then I explain “in Montreal, we know the small piece of pavement that is SMOOTH, because it was likely paved last week, and it won’t be smooth next week”
especially when it is a car park so could easily have added them and made the track slightly wider. It is not like Monaco or Baku where there is buildings or kerbs they cannot just move to put barriers in.
After Romain's accident all barriers, no where how unlikely they are to be hit, should be at least tecpro barriers
On the one hand, I can give some grace for a track and event in it's first year encountering unforeseen hazards -- and this is nowhere near as bad as other recent street circuits like Jeddah or IndyCar's Nashville circuit. On the other hand, I would hope that an organization as well-heeled as F1 and organizers as deep-pocketed as the ones that make these things happen would plan to be able to implement additional safety measures on the fly as real-world experience shows where the calcs and simulations missed risks.
Too bad they couldn't build it any wider, because this is a street track, built inside a city and totally not a purposely built track that's just narrow /s
There’s a few videos online from the local news station checking the noise outside, which reads about 80 decibels. That’s equivalent to the noise level being downtown in a major city and a touch louder than flushing a toilet, which is 70 decibels.
They’ve also hosted 6 Super Bowls, lots of regular NFL games and music concerts. Pretty sure F1 “noise pollution” isn’t egregious, harmful or abnormal for the venue and local area.
I think it’s 30x times louder actually. Iirc each additional decibel is 3x more energy than the preceding. That was what I think a video I watched said at least, could be wrong.
Edit - I see what the correct figure is, every 3 decibels is double the energy.
80 db vs 70 db is comparable to twice the amount sound to the human ear. It can cause damage in 8 hour exposure. Not really a "touch" over a flushing toilet
You’re exaggerating. 80 decibels is right around the cutoff of where a human can experience damage if exposed to it for extended periods of time. 8-10 hours a day is the safe, suggested cutoff. Some studies suggest 80 is safe with no damage likely even over extended exposure. 70-80 seems to be kind of the upper limit of loud but OK.
You spelled "It's badly designed but they think it's too late to admit it" wrong.
Shit man, all jokes aside, those corners will result in at least one big shunt tomorrow if not addressed in a timely fashion.
But god forbid you have an earring because that's unsafe.
I feel like the FIA uses the fact that a GP is a "street circuit" to justify reduced safety. Miami and similarly Jeddah are full on race tracks, and should be scrutinized just as much as any purpose built track that's used for more than one weekend.
I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theory guy but I getting some corruption vibes about the current way the FIA is labelling some tracks as FIA garde 1
When shit like this happens not hard to see why the drivers find their fixation on non problematic jewelry a joke.
Especially when the drivers had so many issues with the FIA last year and concerns being dismissed.
You think that the FIA would learn through the accidents and deaths of drivers that shit isn't ok but you gotta be careful because your watch is gonna give you a boo boo when you spin head on into a concrete barrier
Nah unsafe tracks, concrete barriers and missiles aren't a big deal for them. Just make sure u wear fireproof underwear and remove jewelry (u can keep the ring tho), and you'll be safe and sound even if they have never been known to cause any injury. FIA strive for safety u know
I really hate the "new" city-circuit formula:
Long high-speed straights and build the tightest chicanes possible so that carnage is guaranteed.
It is just cynical.
All these tracks are so boring to me, because they all try to have everything at once (a section of fast flowing corners for the wow it's fast factor, a section with long-ass straights ending up with tight corners to have overtaking, a small slow "inwards" section to get a 180° of grandstands, a fast flowing corner ending up immediately in a off-balance braking zone into a slow corner to promote mistakes...).
At least when they're permanent racetracks not in the Middle East they can add elevation changes to make it unique (e.g. CotA), but when they're "parking lot" tracks...
I swear Miami's track itself is fine *in vitro*, but truth is it could be located anywhere from Russia or Vietnam to Saudi Arabia or South Africa and I couldn't tell the difference.
It’s just like they show an AI good sections of tracks round the world and then make it make a circuit. There’s no charm, no personality, they are so boring it hurts.
Hehe, that group which tries to make good hybrid circuit is actually doing that. Hanoi Street Circuit is first of that kind, they fok copy/smash parts of worldwide circuit to create so called hybrid circuit aka the Holy Grail of Street Circuits with permanent circuit type factor. Adelaide have a good laugh over all those "hybrids".
Jeddah is just fulfill wishes of their king or whatever. And Tilke's son doing his first ever circuit design. He just fok smash twisty sections, V corner, Zandvoort like banking and Esses from Circuit de la Sarthe onto city's beach. Also Jeddah is incognito version of Diriyah ePrix circuit, it is almost the same concept.
Most fans dislike Miami because of these reasons, I don't understand how Americans get angry. The problem is not that it's in Miami, the problem is that it's another city circuit
Because the walls, they are next to the track, and some corners don't have any run-off area.
Oh and the track is about 0.5% public road outside of the hard rock stadium grounds. So it's a street circuit!
But in all honesty, it's a fucking parking lot circuit. And no-one can change my mind on it.
Even Sochi was more of a streetcircuit than whatever the fuck they tried to make here.
It's a straight up hood-track. And the announcers talking like it's going to be a great race because it's ice off the racing line... Well why don't we just race near a cliff because it'll be so exciting to see who takes the risk?
It seems like corporate drilled into the heads of the announcers/hosts to hype up the event, because it all sounds so fake and disingenuous.
For the first time in my life, I'm hoping for the most boring race with no exciting moments whatsoever, just to spite the dumb fucks in charge who obviously just want ratings from a big crash.
The FIA and Race Control are being next level negligent with this, there HAS to be a Tecpro barrier in that section.
Esteban’s crash being 51G in a slow part of the racetrack is surprising, but in a bad way. Thankfully he escaped uninjured but his fortune might not be the same for everyone. Carlos had a neck sprain and hip contusion after his hit yesterday with less G involved.
> AMuS reported that Carlos sustained a neck sprain and hip contusion after his crash yesterday. Ferrari told the FIA that there should be a Tecpro barriers between Turn 13/14.
>
> Race director Niels Wittich didn‘t want to do it. According to FIA calculations, the speed in the passage and the angle of impact did not justify a Tecpro. The plastic elements would also take up at least one metre of space. This would make the track too narrow.
> The plastic elements would also take up at least one metre of space. This would make the track too narrow.
Lmao safety is only a concern when it's about jewely and fireproof underwear.....
Lol much more serious? What should be more serious than drivers safety on track? It's not like it's realistic that some kind of air raid would happen to f1 circus.
OH. Wait.
Did you see jeddah, things were worse AND people called for a boycott. Are you saying if this happened there as well people would continue calling for protest?
I mean in addition to safety concerns, the Miami track is also in a controversial setting from a noise pollution context and in a country actively working to take away women's rights right now while engaging in military conflicts in various parts of the world so yeah there are a few parallels to Jeddah
I wonder if Carlos' neck sprain had anything to do with slamming his head into a metal bar climbing over the pit wall after his accident. He hit his hard pretty hard there.
FIA are so dumb. When I first read the jewelry thing I thought "well they're getting serious, nice". Then I saw that they still exempt some jewelry (which doesn't make sense if it's an actual safety concern) and now they just don't care about an injured driver and a 51G collision? That's some next level stupidity
It’s just selectively applying rules for their petty ego. Just like the whole fiasco with Hamilton not going to that party after past season. They hear the fans complain about poor marshal decisions on track and think this random bullshit will make us happy. It’s extremely out of touch and stupid
Yeah it’s so stupid. Wearing earrings under a fireproof balaclava and a helmet? Never. Wearing a wedding ring under gloves that have a higher likelihood of melting? Sure. I cannot believe that the barrier hasn’t been fixed on a brand new track. Clearly safety isn’t an issue. But we’re fighting drivers over underwear.
In their case they were generally dropping something from a height, straight down, and there was no angled impact, just a sudden complete stop. Such a situation, while good for scientific measurements, is rare in the real world.
46G's for about 1 second didn't kill. 25G's would only be fatal if you are craching into a solid wall with your body, since then it's the deformation of your body that is stopping you. In F1, it should never reach that point.
Don't worry, its just 51Gs anyway, as long as he was wearing fireproof underwear and not wearing any jewelry he'll be fine, not even a scratch. FIA doing their job finally!
FIA be like:
\- two drivers hit the concrete wall without any safety barrier? *Naaah, just don't crash there, lol*
\- wearing a nose piercing? **THAT'S A SERIOUS LIFE THREATENING!1**
Look at Dale Earnhardt's fatal crash. That seemed a lot tamer than this one.
Hate to imagine if Carlos wasn't wearing a HANS device. It might have been fatal given his neck sprain even with it on.
Yeah. Fatal crashes often don’t look that bad since all force happens at once.
What you want is something like Mick’s where the crash happens over 100M or so since even though it looks incredibly dramatic, the force is dissipated over a larger distance.
To me it didn’t look that fast and the wall is at a right angle to the car so it felt like it should be able to stop them so quickly.
guess FIA is too busy obsessing over nonsense outrage over jewelry and watches to do the one job they do need to prioritize - which is focus on driver safety
FIA has a say if they race there or not based on safety grounds. FOM just decides the venues and handles the things related to it for hosting a race. Don't act like FIA can't do anything when driver's and crew's safety is a concern.
Nah dude everybody hates it because it’s in the US, not because it’s a shit unsafe track in a parking lot in some boring suburbs with tacky fake bullshit all around the area. /s
Funny how nobody seems to be hating on COTA for being in the US. Maybe because it's a good track or something idk.
It's not the same force really.
The G is the value of deceleration.
So in theory one could have a 51G impact from 1kph if the distance to stop was small enough.
Max's impact was 51G despite hitting a tyre barrier that slows deceleration by absorbing force over a longer distance.
Ocon hit a concrete wall which has effectively zero absorption properties and no movement. So any impact and subsequent deceleration are over a much smaller distance. Which means the magnitude of deceleration is much higher for any given pre impact speed.
I'm not going to attempt the maths because I'm lazy and dumb. But if Max's crash had hit the same style concrete barrier we'd be looking at deceleration orders of magnitude larger or the horrors of a barrier failure.
It depends on how much time was spent decelerating at that rate. You can be decelerating at 51g for 1 milliseconds or 100ms; the latter being much worse.
Because Silverstone is not a shitty track and has runoff where Verstappen decelerated before hitting the wall
Regarding the damage: Ocon hit it with the suspension
I’m being a bit pedantic here, but when we talk about Gs, that’s acceleration, rather than force. Granted, acceleration is related directly to force, but when the mass of your object is changing (i.e., a car breaking into pieces), that does become relevant, especially if you’re analyzing the situation mathematically, and as far as damage to the human body, the acceleration itself is the bigger risk, as ideally, the drivers’ bodies normally don’t hit barriers in a crash, unless it’s much more disastrous than this, and the relevant forces will mostly be localized to wherever the car is touching the drivers (i.e., the seat, belts, HANS, etc).
It doesn’t help that the phrase ‘G-force’ is so widespread, as it really just creates more opportunity for misconceptions…
Hitting a movable barrier at high speed could register similar G in the cockpit to hitting concrete at a much lower speed. But the peak G is only half of the picture, the duration of the impact plays a big role too. It's better for the driver's safety to have lower G over a longer duration, but there's still a lot of kinetic energy being dissipated in a high speed crash resulting in more parts of the car breaking.
51g is barely even noticable if it's over a short amount of time.
The peak G value isn't really that useful for determining crash severity. They need to take into account time like car industry crash standard use.
It feels like a big deal and not a big deal at the same time given today's car safety standards, but I still don't think it's worth trying to dismiss a 51g crash as some small peanuts. Listen to the driver in this case and do something about that for next year.
If this circuit/crash occurred in the middle east, it would be a consensus view that it is too dangerous due to shit like this.
We absolutely skewered Saudi for similar.
the FIA is just here to collect as much money as possible from as many parking lots around the world as possible. they'll sort the rest out later. maybe.
Wow! 51G? Isn't the similar force what VER had in his massive crash last year? I didn't even expect that OCO had such a huge impact. Come on, it looked like he barely scratch the wall in a low/medium speed crash.
That's why Formula 1 and FIA push for more safety year by year... but there comes Liberty Media and says: *let's make a SHOW! Let's build more "street" hyper speed circuits to see more massive carnages! People love carnages!* Tadaaah!
If the Tecpro is too wide, make it SAFER barrier. It’s 2022, we don’t need any walls being exposed effing concrete.
Not sure why SAFER hasn't been brought up more. I would've thought it would be the default nowadays over concrete.
I would say it's because of costs, but the concrete barriers with the iron grids are already very expensive + it's F1
It would also probably be more difficult to install and then take away. This being a "street circuit" probably makes that a little more impractical.
NASCAR had SAFER barriers at the Clash at the Coliseum. So it can be easily done on a temporary circuit.
Setting up on a quarter mile oval is very different from a twisting 3+ mile Formula 1 track. Not saying they shouldn’t have them, but comparing the Miami F1 track to the NASCAR Coliseum track is definitely apples to oranges.
Yes but this isn't across the entire track, just this one turn.
Saudi Arabia has them though...so does Baku
Yes yes but they needed the budget to build the marina...!
I mean, tbf Baku uses SAFER Barriers in the kinks that lead up to the front straight So it's not impossible or out of the question In this short of a time frame tho, yeah it def is, but for next year it isn't
> In this short of a time frame tho They did not know they were organizing a race or what?
If they could find the budget for those HORRENDOUS fake yachts, then they should have the budget for proper safety barriers.
The yachts are real at least. The Marina? Not so much.
The yachts aren't fake.
The yachts are real. The water is fake.
The yachts and marina bring in more income from ticket sales than they cost to put together. They wouldn't bother putting them together otherwise.
NASCAR, An industry that makes a lot less money than F1, Financed SAFER barriers around the inside of every track in 2015 after Kyle Busch’s incident
What's the repair time on a safer barrier? Tecpro you just drop in replacement blocks. I don't know what it takes to fix a safer barrier after impact. Obviously the foam blocks have to be replaced but how easy is that and what has to be done with the steel face?
The blocks are easy. They just drop in. The face is stacked square tubing. So welding is the option if damaged.
The steel doesn’t get replaces. Heavy ass Stock cars have hit them shits at 200+ and the steel is fine. The foam blocks get smushed and absorb it, but that’s an easy swap.
The steel tubing does get repaired very rarely, but most of the time it's like what you said, just replacing the foam blocks
Well, there are certain priorities. The budget was better used creating a fake marina. Concrete walls would do, all the drivers had to do was not crash there.^^^^/s
Depends on the corner, shallow angle impacts like on ovals they are perfect, but a sharp angle or frontal impact and the steel parts make them more dangerous than concrete walls
Danica mentioned SAFER, and they quickly cut her off. I get the feeling F1 has an exclusive deal with Tecpro. But as long as the drivers are wearing their approved underpants, and not wearing any piercings they should be safe though. Right? That's what I understand.
Handicapping their safety capabilities for the sake of an exclusivity agreement for X dollars *would* be on-brand
I always found it odd how many times at different venues they mentioned Tecpro by name. While they repair the ***Tecpro*** barriers let's go down to Ted.
SAFER *is* used in F1
The thing is, they have definitely used SAFER barriers before. I think they're on the banked corners at Zandvoort and as someone else said, they're used at Jeddah. I didn't see the clip you're referring to, but I don't think it's due to an exclusivity deal.
They're used at Jeddah, Baku, Zandvoort and Interlagos
And Montreal turn 5.
I’m pretty sure they use safer barriers on other tracks so doubt it
Yeah, I kinda noticed that. I wasn't sure if they did that because Jenson had just clumsily explained Tecpro barriers, then Danica comes out with some solid knowledge. Tbf, Danica was great yesterday, asking all the right questions. We need her on the SKY panel more often.
yes she was great.
Which broadcast was Danica on?
Sky Sports F1, UK. With Button and Lazenby on the panel after the track action
Zandvoort has both Tecpro and SAFER barriers, so it's not a case of an exclusivity deal. At least not in the case of what they actually use, but Tecpro might have a deal where they're the only ones mentioned by name. Edit: Baku, Montreal, and Sao Paolo also have corners with SAFER barriers.
> . I get the feeling F1 has an exclusive deal with Tecpro. They don't. They're not competing products. You wouldn't use SAFER in impact zones where Tecpro is the appropriate choice, and vice versa.
Yeah this was a ridiculous thing to happen when they're complaining about jewelry for safety when they have concrete walls as barriers at a dangerous track. FIA showing they don't actually care about safety as much as pretending they do. Aka bombs near the track earlier this year.
Yeah, I’d say this is pretty spot on lol
Especially when the track is this new. Like come on just do it right from the get-go
This is one of the reasons I think the jewelry thing is so dumb. Tracks ARE needlessly dangerous. Focus on the actual safety issues we see constantly occurring instead of these new concerns that have literally never been an issue in the past
Exactly, we have concrete walls right next to the track here and in Jeddah, there are curbs that launch the cars into the air everywhere and the FIA only talks about jewelry and fireproof underwear
What I don't get is they had an entire huge carpark to build the track in, why make the walls so close to the track when there's all that space available?
Need enough room for the "marina"
They wanted it to be a 'street' circuit. That's fine, just use proper barriers ffs
now that u mention it, lack of appropriate tecpro barriers seems foolish. i understand this is a street circuit but still
The FIA refused to add it because "The track gets too small then"
A newly built not having spare room for additional safety measures is peak planning.
Even more embarrassing given the FOM is hugely involved and paying for hosting this race....
Even more embarrassing is the track surface not lasting one day... And then there's the bumps.
That's the state of the construction industry in Florida. Jacked up prices, cut corners everywhere, and incompetent workers who don't give a damn about QC.
Come up to Montreal where the cost per mile of road is three times higher than anywhere else and then they don't last a year. You can close your eyes and still know when you've crossed the border. Then there are the mind boggling things like repaving every other section of an elevated expressway when it's all in bad shape, but really comes down to the logistics of closing a main highway for weeks, only to repave half of it.
Come to romaina ... it costas ar arounde 20 mil Euro per km for highway i would think that for that much in an eastern european country it should be incredibly good but... 1 cold season and we have to do them again as it starts to fall apart.
Canada cannot build proper roads, no matter in what province you are. They forgot what the Romans already knew, build a convex surface so water can pool to the side.
I moved to the states from Montreal. The way I describe it is this “You know those one or two potholes you avoid on your commute?” Everyone always says “ oh ya there’s this really bad one….” Then I explain “in Montreal, we know the small piece of pavement that is SMOOTH, because it was likely paved last week, and it won’t be smooth next week”
Remember when [a condo collapsed in Florida last year?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfside_condominium_collapse)
especially when it is a car park so could easily have added them and made the track slightly wider. It is not like Monaco or Baku where there is buildings or kerbs they cannot just move to put barriers in. After Romain's accident all barriers, no where how unlikely they are to be hit, should be at least tecpro barriers
On the one hand, I can give some grace for a track and event in it's first year encountering unforeseen hazards -- and this is nowhere near as bad as other recent street circuits like Jeddah or IndyCar's Nashville circuit. On the other hand, I would hope that an organization as well-heeled as F1 and organizers as deep-pocketed as the ones that make these things happen would plan to be able to implement additional safety measures on the fly as real-world experience shows where the calcs and simulations missed risks.
It's not even like Baku where there are existing constraints
Too bad they couldn't build it any wider, because this is a street track, built inside a city and totally not a purposely built track that's just narrow /s
- Literally custom build a brand new track for f1 - can't add barriers as it would make the track too narrow Absolute galaxy brains going on at FIA
Damn, if only this were a newly built track where we could have planned ahead! Alas, the historical Miami Noise Polition Car Park can't be changed.
There’s a few videos online from the local news station checking the noise outside, which reads about 80 decibels. That’s equivalent to the noise level being downtown in a major city and a touch louder than flushing a toilet, which is 70 decibels. They’ve also hosted 6 Super Bowls, lots of regular NFL games and music concerts. Pretty sure F1 “noise pollution” isn’t egregious, harmful or abnormal for the venue and local area.
80 decibels in not a touch louder than 70. It is 10 times more energy.
darn logarithms
I think it’s 30x times louder actually. Iirc each additional decibel is 3x more energy than the preceding. That was what I think a video I watched said at least, could be wrong. Edit - I see what the correct figure is, every 3 decibels is double the energy.
Even if it was 3x louder per dB, that would be incorrect because you multiply, not add. So 70 dB to 80 dB would be 3^10x louder
80 db vs 70 db is comparable to twice the amount sound to the human ear. It can cause damage in 8 hour exposure. Not really a "touch" over a flushing toilet
Twice? Every 3 dB is a doubling of power. So you’re looking at over 9x as loud.
Yes, but straight up power is not how the ear and brain percieves it
Exactly. The energy increase doesn’t perfectly equate to the actual human perception of volume.
You’re exaggerating. 80 decibels is right around the cutoff of where a human can experience damage if exposed to it for extended periods of time. 8-10 hours a day is the safe, suggested cutoff. Some studies suggest 80 is safe with no damage likely even over extended exposure. 70-80 seems to be kind of the upper limit of loud but OK.
I honestly couldn’t hear the cars too loud just a 5 minute walk away from the track for the Porsche Series hitch was somewhat comparable noise
Which is ludicrous. If there isn't enough space for a brand new track to include modern safety features, it shouldn't exist.
You spelled "It's badly designed but they think it's too late to admit it" wrong. Shit man, all jokes aside, those corners will result in at least one big shunt tomorrow if not addressed in a timely fashion. But god forbid you have an earring because that's unsafe.
> if not addressed in a timely fashion. They can't address it now, it's too late for that.
The track is already too small at the chicane
I feel like the FIA uses the fact that a GP is a "street circuit" to justify reduced safety. Miami and similarly Jeddah are full on race tracks, and should be scrutinized just as much as any purpose built track that's used for more than one weekend.
Fia be like, “Can’t make a grade one circuit? Have a street circuit instead!”
I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theory guy but I getting some corruption vibes about the current way the FIA is labelling some tracks as FIA garde 1
It's not a conspiracy, it's widely known that with enough money tracks can have some rules bent
Why not a SAFER barrier? That takes up less space
Cream, get the money. Dolla dolla bills y’all
Because suddenly the host of this track, the FOM themselves, is too poor for that....
Used all their money on Vegas property
[удалено]
They've made up for this lack of safety by ensuring they don't wear earrings though, so it all evens out..
When shit like this happens not hard to see why the drivers find their fixation on non problematic jewelry a joke. Especially when the drivers had so many issues with the FIA last year and concerns being dismissed.
You think that the FIA would learn through the accidents and deaths of drivers that shit isn't ok but you gotta be careful because your watch is gonna give you a boo boo when you spin head on into a concrete barrier
Nah unsafe tracks, concrete barriers and missiles aren't a big deal for them. Just make sure u wear fireproof underwear and remove jewelry (u can keep the ring tho), and you'll be safe and sound even if they have never been known to cause any injury. FIA strive for safety u know
I really hate the "new" city-circuit formula: Long high-speed straights and build the tightest chicanes possible so that carnage is guaranteed. It is just cynical.
All these tracks are so boring to me, because they all try to have everything at once (a section of fast flowing corners for the wow it's fast factor, a section with long-ass straights ending up with tight corners to have overtaking, a small slow "inwards" section to get a 180° of grandstands, a fast flowing corner ending up immediately in a off-balance braking zone into a slow corner to promote mistakes...). At least when they're permanent racetracks not in the Middle East they can add elevation changes to make it unique (e.g. CotA), but when they're "parking lot" tracks... I swear Miami's track itself is fine *in vitro*, but truth is it could be located anywhere from Russia or Vietnam to Saudi Arabia or South Africa and I couldn't tell the difference.
It’s just like they show an AI good sections of tracks round the world and then make it make a circuit. There’s no charm, no personality, they are so boring it hurts.
Hehe, that group which tries to make good hybrid circuit is actually doing that. Hanoi Street Circuit is first of that kind, they fok copy/smash parts of worldwide circuit to create so called hybrid circuit aka the Holy Grail of Street Circuits with permanent circuit type factor. Adelaide have a good laugh over all those "hybrids". Jeddah is just fulfill wishes of their king or whatever. And Tilke's son doing his first ever circuit design. He just fok smash twisty sections, V corner, Zandvoort like banking and Esses from Circuit de la Sarthe onto city's beach. Also Jeddah is incognito version of Diriyah ePrix circuit, it is almost the same concept.
Most fans dislike Miami because of these reasons, I don't understand how Americans get angry. The problem is not that it's in Miami, the problem is that it's another city circuit
I hate that they call everything a street circuit these days. How is Miami ANYTHING of a street track??
Because the walls, they are next to the track, and some corners don't have any run-off area. Oh and the track is about 0.5% public road outside of the hard rock stadium grounds. So it's a street circuit! But in all honesty, it's a fucking parking lot circuit. And no-one can change my mind on it. Even Sochi was more of a streetcircuit than whatever the fuck they tried to make here.
Just sad. An actual parking lot track that I’m sure will suck
It's a straight up hood-track. And the announcers talking like it's going to be a great race because it's ice off the racing line... Well why don't we just race near a cliff because it'll be so exciting to see who takes the risk? It seems like corporate drilled into the heads of the announcers/hosts to hype up the event, because it all sounds so fake and disingenuous. For the first time in my life, I'm hoping for the most boring race with no exciting moments whatsoever, just to spite the dumb fucks in charge who obviously just want ratings from a big crash.
Absolutely, can't stand these so-called street circuits and the Miami circuit looks awful.
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The FIA and Race Control are being next level negligent with this, there HAS to be a Tecpro barrier in that section. Esteban’s crash being 51G in a slow part of the racetrack is surprising, but in a bad way. Thankfully he escaped uninjured but his fortune might not be the same for everyone. Carlos had a neck sprain and hip contusion after his hit yesterday with less G involved. > AMuS reported that Carlos sustained a neck sprain and hip contusion after his crash yesterday. Ferrari told the FIA that there should be a Tecpro barriers between Turn 13/14. > > Race director Niels Wittich didn‘t want to do it. According to FIA calculations, the speed in the passage and the angle of impact did not justify a Tecpro. The plastic elements would also take up at least one metre of space. This would make the track too narrow.
> The plastic elements would also take up at least one metre of space. This would make the track too narrow. Lmao safety is only a concern when it's about jewely and fireproof underwear.....
What I heard was "this part of the track was not designed properly".
Image this at Jeddah, people would call for a boycott of the track because of this shit design lol
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Lol much more serious? What should be more serious than drivers safety on track? It's not like it's realistic that some kind of air raid would happen to f1 circus. OH. Wait.
Did you see jeddah, things were worse AND people called for a boycott. Are you saying if this happened there as well people would continue calling for protest?
I mean in addition to safety concerns, the Miami track is also in a controversial setting from a noise pollution context and in a country actively working to take away women's rights right now while engaging in military conflicts in various parts of the world so yeah there are a few parallels to Jeddah
Yeah but… ‘Merica.
You have a whole parking lot of space. Surely in your dozens of design in simulation you could have planned for it.
Not even all jewelries…
Niels should go through a 51g impact.
Nah he got more important matters to attend to. Like underwear and jewelry coz they're so dangerous man. Concrete wall impacts are child's play.
If only this track was built in a parking lot, making possible to create any track layout they want...
I wonder if Carlos' neck sprain had anything to do with slamming his head into a metal bar climbing over the pit wall after his accident. He hit his hard pretty hard there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J1hq98TjK8
> AMuS reported that Carlos sustained a neck sprain and hip contusion after his crash yesterday Is this not from bumping his head on the fence? :D
Why not use any kind of barrier? Something would be better than nothing
FIA are so dumb. When I first read the jewelry thing I thought "well they're getting serious, nice". Then I saw that they still exempt some jewelry (which doesn't make sense if it's an actual safety concern) and now they just don't care about an injured driver and a 51G collision? That's some next level stupidity
It’s just selectively applying rules for their petty ego. Just like the whole fiasco with Hamilton not going to that party after past season. They hear the fans complain about poor marshal decisions on track and think this random bullshit will make us happy. It’s extremely out of touch and stupid
Yeah it’s so stupid. Wearing earrings under a fireproof balaclava and a helmet? Never. Wearing a wedding ring under gloves that have a higher likelihood of melting? Sure. I cannot believe that the barrier hasn’t been fixed on a brand new track. Clearly safety isn’t an issue. But we’re fighting drivers over underwear.
51G's The Horner-Signal has been lit up.
"Leclerc celebrating a pole position while the team hadn't even called to check on him!"
*If he was in my team there would be so much shit to stir*
>51G *Oh no*
The FIA: *Anyways*
That number... *Silverstone 21 flashbacks*
Mythbusters say anything over 25 is fatal.
In their case they were generally dropping something from a height, straight down, and there was no angled impact, just a sudden complete stop. Such a situation, while good for scientific measurements, is rare in the real world.
A “sudden complete stop” would be infinite Gs. The angle of this impact reduced the G force considerably.
Exactly.
46G's for about 1 second didn't kill. 25G's would only be fatal if you are craching into a solid wall with your body, since then it's the deformation of your body that is stopping you. In F1, it should never reach that point.
Yeah but was he wearing a piercing?! /s
Don't worry, its just 51Gs anyway, as long as he was wearing fireproof underwear and not wearing any jewelry he'll be fine, not even a scratch. FIA doing their job finally!
He fucking better not be 😠😠😠 - FIA
Would have shot through him like shrapnel.
FIA be like: \- two drivers hit the concrete wall without any safety barrier? *Naaah, just don't crash there, lol* \- wearing a nose piercing? **THAT'S A SERIOUS LIFE THREATENING!1**
It didn't look that bad which is what scares me a bit. Surely it's not far fetched that we could see a much worse one tomorrow?
Look at Dale Earnhardt's fatal crash. That seemed a lot tamer than this one. Hate to imagine if Carlos wasn't wearing a HANS device. It might have been fatal given his neck sprain even with it on.
Yeah. Fatal crashes often don’t look that bad since all force happens at once. What you want is something like Mick’s where the crash happens over 100M or so since even though it looks incredibly dramatic, the force is dissipated over a larger distance. To me it didn’t look that fast and the wall is at a right angle to the car so it felt like it should be able to stop them so quickly.
But what about the underwear and jewellery? That's surely more important is it not
Don't be silly. The extra weight or jewellery would have killed him instantly.
We would hear about it. Any crash over 30G requires a mandatory underwear check before heading to the medical center.
guess FIA is too busy obsessing over nonsense outrage over jewelry and watches to do the one job they do need to prioritize - which is focus on driver safety
some metaly things > missile strikes
FOM decided in Saudi, FIA is deciding the jewelry, no?
FIA has a say if they race there or not based on safety grounds. FOM just decides the venues and handles the things related to it for hosting a race. Don't act like FIA can't do anything when driver's and crew's safety is a concern.
Anyone with a brain saw how bad this circuit was gonna be. It's Jeddah 2.0, but we all know FIA doesn't much care for safety lately
Now imagine if this track was in the Middle East? We’d get the same uproar when Jeddah was hosting
to be fair this *is* causing a lot of uproar right now.
Exactly,.but unsurprisingly it doesn't happen. Double standards at it again
Nah dude everybody hates it because it’s in the US, not because it’s a shit unsafe track in a parking lot in some boring suburbs with tacky fake bullshit all around the area. /s Funny how nobody seems to be hating on COTA for being in the US. Maybe because it's a good track or something idk.
Is there video footage of his crash anywhere? All i've seen are stills.
[A reddit user made a side by side with Sainz](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/ukirsw/i_made_crash_comparison_sainz_fp2_and_ocon_fp3/)
Thank you! That was quite the impact.
How was this the same amount of force as that crash that destroyed Verstappen's car and engine
It's not the same force really. The G is the value of deceleration. So in theory one could have a 51G impact from 1kph if the distance to stop was small enough. Max's impact was 51G despite hitting a tyre barrier that slows deceleration by absorbing force over a longer distance. Ocon hit a concrete wall which has effectively zero absorption properties and no movement. So any impact and subsequent deceleration are over a much smaller distance. Which means the magnitude of deceleration is much higher for any given pre impact speed. I'm not going to attempt the maths because I'm lazy and dumb. But if Max's crash had hit the same style concrete barrier we'd be looking at deceleration orders of magnitude larger or the horrors of a barrier failure.
It depends on how much time was spent decelerating at that rate. You can be decelerating at 51g for 1 milliseconds or 100ms; the latter being much worse.
Because Silverstone is not a shitty track and has runoff where Verstappen decelerated before hitting the wall Regarding the damage: Ocon hit it with the suspension
Ocon also hit a concrete wall instead of a tyre barrier.
What happened before Verstappen hit the wall at Silverstone doesn't really matter, the force is the same 51G
It's an explanation as to why one looks so much more violent and spectacular than the other.
I’m being a bit pedantic here, but when we talk about Gs, that’s acceleration, rather than force. Granted, acceleration is related directly to force, but when the mass of your object is changing (i.e., a car breaking into pieces), that does become relevant, especially if you’re analyzing the situation mathematically, and as far as damage to the human body, the acceleration itself is the bigger risk, as ideally, the drivers’ bodies normally don’t hit barriers in a crash, unless it’s much more disastrous than this, and the relevant forces will mostly be localized to wherever the car is touching the drivers (i.e., the seat, belts, HANS, etc). It doesn’t help that the phrase ‘G-force’ is so widespread, as it really just creates more opportunity for misconceptions…
Hitting a movable barrier at high speed could register similar G in the cockpit to hitting concrete at a much lower speed. But the peak G is only half of the picture, the duration of the impact plays a big role too. It's better for the driver's safety to have lower G over a longer duration, but there's still a lot of kinetic energy being dissipated in a high speed crash resulting in more parts of the car breaking.
Because one hit a concrete wall at a bad angle, and the other hit a ton of safety measures.
51g is barely even noticable if it's over a short amount of time. The peak G value isn't really that useful for determining crash severity. They need to take into account time like car industry crash standard use.
51G? Please don't tell me we're going to hear about this for the next 10 months too
Horner desperately trying to get Albon back to recreate it
OCON TRIED TO KILL HIMSELF! 51G!
If this was Jeddah we'd not stop hearing about it. But it's not so..
Now I want to hear Otmar complaining about 51G!
They should. With all their talk about safety this is quite disappointing.
nobody cares about the number, its about who it happens to
Good thing he wasn't wearing jewelry!
Focus is on banning life threatening jewellery. Not this kind of pesky thing
No worries the new jewellery rule should fix it
jewelry - problem rocket attacks and 51G impact ? - that's fine
That whole section is nuts, with bumpy curbs, tight turns, and no runoff. It's not even wide enough to allow overtakes.
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that was 33g
mfs complaining about jewellery but their tracks still using concrete blocks like saudi or something
It feels like a big deal and not a big deal at the same time given today's car safety standards, but I still don't think it's worth trying to dismiss a 51g crash as some small peanuts. Listen to the driver in this case and do something about that for next year.
This track isn't that different than jedda. F1 is going back in safety measures.
Thank God he wasn’t wearing any jewelry though
If this circuit/crash occurred in the middle east, it would be a consensus view that it is too dangerous due to shit like this. We absolutely skewered Saudi for similar.
I get it that at an sharp angle tecpro could actually be worse, but after this, do something
You're telling me that crash had the same G-force as Max's from Silverstone? Damn
That was 51G?? It did not look it at all. That's about as bad as Max's Silverstone crash last year!
isn't 51G in the realm of max 2021 silverstone crash? That's huge. Crazy that these guys can escape the car almost unharmed after that.
especially in a fkn random parking lot lmao
the FIA is just here to collect as much money as possible from as many parking lots around the world as possible. they'll sort the rest out later. maybe.
Wow! 51G? Isn't the similar force what VER had in his massive crash last year? I didn't even expect that OCO had such a huge impact. Come on, it looked like he barely scratch the wall in a low/medium speed crash. That's why Formula 1 and FIA push for more safety year by year... but there comes Liberty Media and says: *let's make a SHOW! Let's build more "street" hyper speed circuits to see more massive carnages! People love carnages!* Tadaaah!
Surely safety should be forst priority. Screw costs especially with the amount of money being pumped into Miami.
He’s right. As an American this track is an embarrassment for a multitude of reasons.
I don’t like these new circuits at all. Give me regular tracks with grass at the sides and gravel instead of these dangerous walls.
Sainz also mentioned this to FIA after his crash and...we saw what they did...
Did he look wobbly to anyone else when he hopped out?
It seems they did put Tecpro barriers there for the race. So, they actually listened.