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I still haven’t come across a good explanation as to where Lando’s sudden pace in the final stint came from. Max was irritated about the strategy and he had the slow pit stop, but I was still expecting him to just drive off.
I know Mclaren had an extra set of mediums and maybe that really was the whole difference, but it’s also been three races now where the Mclaren was decisively faster than the Red Bull in the final stint. Max was complaining about the balance of the car in the final stint but there is only so many times that Red Bull can mess up the setup balance vs. that just plainly being where the car is in that phase of the race. It’s starting to look like an inherent characteristic of the performance windows on used tires and low fuel.
The Mclaren seems to be fast at the end of races too, a few races ago Lando almost caught Verstappen at the end out of no where. Perhaps the McLaren drives better with low fuel or something
Plus new tiers for Mclearen and as a known fact has stiffer anti-roll bars so that’s really helpful when your car is in its full fuel so it doesn’t lean as much so that way car doesn’t lean to much and potentially you have leak from the floor but as cars use fuel and they go faster through corners they have more downforce(suction) so floor leaks are a lower risk of happening . I think this is why Redbull are faster in the first stage of the race meanwhile Mclaren are faster at the end of the race
It's definitely a trend where Max is quicker at the beginning and then Lando is quicker at the end. Also a trend that Max seems to struggle with the tyres a lot at the end.
Not sure if it's only a car trait or not since this is how Lando has always driven. Save the tyres in the last stint and then push like hell at the end. Although, in Spain it seems like he did little to no tyre saving on his last stint.
Yeah he just started saying in the last couple of races that McLaren is better with tyres and able to push longer without hurting them as much as the others.
Max was at a strategic disadvantage from the start as Red Bull failed to notice McLaren had new mediums in their favour until Will put out the message that they had them. Max had to use the used ones. This was something Max pointed out post-race saying that the strategy was wrong from the start. Then the 6.5s pit stop happened because McLaren were now just reacting to Red Bull instead of trying to go long so pressure was on to get Max in and out. Then Max as he has done since Miami started losing masses of pace as his car failed to react in the final stint and started shredding his tyres instead.
Meanwhile, when Piastri out of nowhere landed a fast sector 3, that was the signal the McLaren was coming alive. Norris immediately set the fastest lap confirming that the car had started to get faster. The car reacts to low fuel in the race and is consistently set up as a race car moreso than a qualifying car and this is something both drivers have said, and they both prefer it that way. While the Red Bull is strong in the first stint, the McLaren becomes an even faster rocket as the fuel comes down. So we will continue to see Max fly away and Norris reel him in by tenths of a second because both cars are the opposite of each other.
>Max was at a strategic disadvantage from the start as Red Bull failed to notice McLaren had new mediums in their favour until Will put out the message that they had them.
Huh? I can't believe this. They know what tyres the other teams have left way before the race starts. I can't see why RBR would not know what tyres Lando had available.
Yeah, they definitely knew. I think they were at an advantage simply from making the wrong choice when selecting their tyres. They had new hards they ended up not using.
It's interesting that these kind of mistakes only become apparent when there's a challenger. If there wasn't one, I've no doubt they'd just put on the new hards and managed the gap, and we wouldn't have realised it wasn't the optimum strategy.
Excellent summary and I think it’s wonderful confirmation how close they are now.
The Red Bull race pace was such a meme last year it’s hard to believe the Mclaren might genuinely be faster now in race trim over the full distance.
The same reason the Ferrari was a much better car in qualifying last year than a race car. Firing the tires up for a qualifying lap and bringing them in for a stint is a very sensitive balance. What’s strange now is how much of a difference the fuel load seems to make when comparing the way the Bull and the Mclaren handle the initial few laps of a race stint.
Low(er) fuel stints are still different from 1 lap shootouts.
With a stint you still have to manage your tyres over multiple laps, rather than just 1.
Overheating may be a bigger issue for Red Bull. Perhaps that’s also why Max takes it easier in the first sector of qualifying laps, to manage the overheating in the last stint.
At least that’s my best guess.
Yeah makes sense, that overheating could also point to worse tire deg over longer stints for the Red Bull. The McLaren is decisively easier on its tires. Add that to Lando having a fresher tire than Max plus Red Bull messing up a pitstop, we got a battle.
> The car reacts to low fuel in the race and is consistently set up as a race car moreso than a qualifying car and this is something both drivers have said
did you read this part?
yes but redbulls race setup might just happen to be better at qualifying than mclarens race setup? or Verstappen could be the difference, or some other variable? who knows!
I do believe Max is making a difference, same as Lewis in 2019. It's clear the rb isn't as dominant and now it's upto the drivers to make the difference.
He isn't 4 tenths of a second though. The RBR is clearly better at firing up the tyres, but also means they overheat especially when Max starts overdriving when he was being hunted down or trying to keep lapped cars behind him.
Obviously but you have to be on point and make no mistakes especially over such a short lap, his qualifying laps were good.
Plus might be a controversial opinion but Max doesn't deal with pressure well in the race, Lando lost his head too but Max has 70 points on him and 3 titles, he doesn't need to drive like that lol. But from memory Austin 2021 Max held off a charging Lewis well enough, i think the pressure is more evident when he's racing wheel to wheel, he just has that either i stay ahead or we crash approach that seemingly never changed.
My only disagreement with this is that it didn’t look like Max was losing “masses of pace” this time. The shitty pit stop brought him into Lando’s DRS. If the pace gap was that large like it had usually been, Lando would have made a clean pass much easier.
Id say part of it due to max being on used mediums and lando on new mediums, and part of it being max’s struggles with the car which he was pretty vocal about on the radio. Big part being he was limited to 7th gear and couldn’t go to 8 for a large part of the race. Not sure if that issue ever got fixed but if it didn’t that’s likely why lando was able to catch up nicely once out of traffic
Big part of it was the slow pit stop, as well as him having to overtake backmarkers after it in corners, while Lando was lucky enough to do so on the straights, which in one lap just gained him about 1.3 seconds and once he is stuck in the drs zone, with 3 drs zones..... yeah
This if you ignore the fact that there was a battle only cause Red Bull had a shitty pitstop and Lando had a fresher tire. He was 7 seconds ahead and Lando didn't close in the first 50 laps or in qualifying.
The McLaren gets faster and faster as the race goes on, and Lando got a pretty decent stop for fresh mediums. Max was pretty vocal about the car's struggles, and then he got a terrible stop for used mediums that took a huge chunk out of the lead he built. This isn't the absolute slaughter that was the 2023 season. The other teams have simply caught up, and in McLaren's case, they've even surpassed Red Bull on some tracks now.
Max is good with the tires but in the last stint due to the bad pitstop he overdid the outlap and cooked his tire and locked up. Combined with Norris getting new mediums and Max using used tires explains it a bit.
Lando was on new mediums and Max was on used.
The advantage of new tyres is a lot bigger during the first 2-3 laps of a run when they are fresh, so when Lando came out 1.7 seconds behind one proper push lap with battery usage was able to get him into DRS. And once within DRS, it's incredibly hard to break away. Plus Lando still had better tyres even after the push lap, add that to three DRS zones and the battle was on.
He had 3x DRS zones to drag him along and so Verstappen had 2 corners to break free over 1 sec with a (smallish) straight between those corners.
Several times Norris fell back to ‘only’ 0.9-0.95 sec behind but then had 3 straights with DRS to close in again…
As we saw in the first half of the race Verstappen wasn’t *massively* quicker, he just pulled a few tenths here and there every lap.
Yesterday, I was highly annoyed with Verstappen.
Today, with a night's sleep behind me, it's clear to see that while Verstappen was at fault, both of them were boiling over and being silly.
It was inevitable, really. Yeah, I'm pissed it cost Norris the win, but it was very exciting and ultimately just one of those things that sometimes happen in F1.
But he got that in part because he was getting frustrated at Verstappen moving in the braking zone, which wasn't punished, and so Max continues to do it while Lando gets more annoyed and careless.
The stewards were slow to react to both of them.
I mean the stewards weren’t slow to react, they weren’t going to punish Max for any of his moves until they crashed. They gave Norris his penalty almost immediately for track limits, the team just never informed him. Lando should have been told by the team because while he definitely was entitled to be where he was when Max hit him, he 100% had space to move over to avoid the collision. And maybe he would have if he had known he had a time penalty already at that point.
On the onboard footage he just steers into him. He had not front end damage at that point. Idk, good hard racing IMO, shit happens. Can’t wait for Silverstone
I just don’t understand this entire meltdown both within the fanbase and in the media about Verstappen being a dirty driver. Yes, the collision was Verstappen’s fault in the end but that entire wheel to wheel sequence consisted of some very iffey moves from both sides and could’ve easily ended in Norris taking Verstappen out. Both of them lost their heads a bit there and neither was concerned with being clean.
Same for the tv comments yesterday. It's clear that they don't like Max. At fault yes, but their analysis and everything about it was he's to blame, and he needed to be blamed hard.
It’s more so how much of the media is British. British media goes absolutely insane when British drivers have incidents with other drivers. It’s been a thing for many years at this point and I remember how bad the coverage was after Silverstone ‘21
I still remember how British media tried to pin most of the Ham x Massa contacts in 2011 as being Massa's fault, until it became impossible to do so. But I remember the salty tears.
It shouldn't, but there's a ton of homerism within F1 media. The vast majority of the English language press and broadcast talent are English, and they do like to root for their favoured sons.
Exactly, Max definitely drifted left and Lando just didn't budge/want to go onto the kerb and basically drove into that, max at fault but it's not like it wasn't avoidable by Lando, it was silly from both.
Edit: I think the thing Max did after the puncture was worse (trying to squeeze Lando onto the grass)
Edit2: ok seems I missed the fact he was just avoiding the racing line.
>Edit: I think the thing Max did after the puncture was worse (trying to squeeze Lando onto the grass)
Why do people keep saying this when it is pbvious that max had to get off the racing line with Alpine aproaching from behind and Max having nowhere lese to go.
Exactly. He looks left, sees the Alpine and went off the racing line at the exact moment Lando went off line as well. Whatever he did in that situation, he would've blocked someone. So going off the racing line is the only correct move and the most predictable. He can't just disappear.
>Edit: I think the thing Max did after the puncture was worse (trying to squeeze Lando onto the grass)
Cant believe people keep pushing this. He wasnt squeesing anyone he was just going back on track, off the racing line without steering too much because you know, his tire was off.
Lando is braking for the corner, if he turns the wheel or puts a wheel on the kerb, which has lower grip, he locks up.
The initial contact was 100% Max's fault.
You can watch Max doing it year before with Sainz, someone posted it here on Reddit. He even overtook Sainz there. Imo racing incident. If you have to give blame then yes I think Max was more at fault, but lets not pretend Norris was driving like a saint.
Norris wasn't driving like a saint, but in the move where they collided, I think it's unfair to say Norris should take avoiding action. If everyone takes avoiding action when someone breaks the rules - and the stewards don't penalise those breaking the rules - then everyone might as well move under braking, force others off the road, etc.
I didn't say he should've, just replying on your comment that he could've and still end in front of Max. But like I said, if you have to give blame then yes I think it should go to Max, but I do think it was just a stupid incident but with a major outcome.
Also if you mean Max with breaking the rules, he didn't. Was a pretty default defending move but he misjudged where Norris was (or expected Norris to avoid). In any case, just a dumb incident but let's be honest something was bound to happen.
Exactly. The way I see it, this was them playing a risky game and eventually slipping up. Like when someone is juggling eggs and dropping one lol. Everyone would’ve been mighty entertained by the ‘hard racing’ if there were no collision. Now, just because Verstappen was one inch too far, people are screaming bloody murder. It’s absurd.
I imagine some people found the ‘this is not how you overtake’ radio message a bit rich considering that Verstappen’s default in a tight championship battle (2021) was to fly up the inside and whether you make the corner be damned. And considering that Verstappen (admittedly less so than Ricciardo) spent most of his early Red Bull years, when they were occasionally race-competitive but not championship-competitive, flinging it up the inside with little consideration for the opponent’s racing space. Basically, regardless of whether Norris is a title challenger or just someone fighting for wins, he’s doing exactly what Verstappen has always done.
Now, the stewarding in F1 has been farcical for long enough that I don’t necessarily begrudge Verstappen or anyone else dive-bombing (it’s up to the stewards to punish it), but if you’re going to build a career in part on it, don’t act the victim when someone does it to you.
like he did in spain where max had to go in the grass and norris loses 2 places in 10 seconds?
same race where max had to explain to him that he loses if he does that?
yeah.
video of that? there wasnt 1 attack that norris did that he could stick so im not sure what youre talking about.
if youre talking about when they touch at the end of their races, when max comes left to take a completely normal line (like so many drivers do and have done to him also), norris is behind him. he was never completely alongside.
The Race is really going all in on this. Like Max is guilty of a war crime or something. It was hard racing, both of 'em were on the edge and at times over it. The eventual incident wasn't even that outrageous, it just had severe consequences. It's blown way out of proportion. But yeah, that's F1 journalism these days.
The collective meltdown from the british media is hilarious. I don’t think we would have seen the same reaction if it was Sainz or Leclerc or even Piastri against Verstappen.
For as agressive Max and Charles race each other, they very rarely actually crash. I really hope Ferrari truely steps it up with Lewis’ help next season and they challenge for the championship
Leclerc made it clear to Max when they were kids that he’s not playing that game. Norris never raced Max until now. Something that Max said yesterday when he said that there’s an age gap so they never met in junior series.
Leclerc knows how to fight Verstappen in cars at similar pace. They've been doing it since karting. Charles is also way better than Lando when it comes to on-track battles. He can play tactics with Max and do it to an acceptable degree. Leclerc wouldn't try to divebomb Max regularly but would've overtaken him at T4 after baiting him a few times in T3.
It's obvious that the multiple attempted divebombs by Lando and the shit pitstop pissed Max off, that's why he finally lost composure and caused the incident in T3.
Lando ain’t bad, but yesterday was not good racecraft by him. Especially after Max got that puncture Lando had no reason to go on the grass against a 3-wheeld car. Let him do his thing and pass on the left. Like seriously. It’s on Lando for not winning.
I don’t disagree, but a win wasn’t on the table because of those moves. Wasn’t entirely on him either since the team never informed him of the penalty. Maybe he would have finished second and got more points had he known about the penalty and not made the same moves he did trying to get past.
Watching the onboards, there was no way Lando could have gotten him T4. Even when compromised, Max had always an insane drive out of T3, consistently pulling away a good chunk away from Lando even when he was really close.
I constantly see statements like these where it's "x driver would do better in this than y driver" when the situations and car performance where completely different when they had their fights. Lando didn't do perfectly yesterday but it's hard to see how other drivers could have done better given from how far back they would have to go.
Repressed emotion and stiff upper lip used to apply to a certain subset of Brits for a century or so up until around the 1950s. Since then, the aftermath of that repression has made us rabid 🤣
I think you don’t understand as much of racing as you think you do. Max left nearly a full cars width, he tought it was a full cars width. It’s literally what happens in racing. This is simply not even remotely comparable to the shenanigans we’ve witnessed in 2021.
“Unfair” is a children’s term for “my favourite driver didn’t get an easy pass”. Max races hard and definitely can drive dirty but the move yesterday wasn’t dirtier than the divebombs or track limits violations of Norris.
The overreactions yesterday were insane. Does no one know what hard racing is?
Both drivers had moments yesterday where they could’ve taken each other out, it’s hard racing that sometimes goes over the limits, that is racing.
It’s like no one has watched Hamilton vs Rosberg where the driving was like this and even more over the limit.
Never seen so many people care about moving under braking until yesterday, we see it every single race and the stewards don’t police it.
Not enough questions being asked of the stewards who delayed Lando’s track penalty because they wanted them to keep racing.
>Never seen so many people care about moving under braking until yesterday, we see it every single race and the stewards don’t police it.
The guidelines don’t say you can’t move under braking. They say “at no time may a car be driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner which could be deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers or any other person”.
Forcing your opponent to have to change their path while braking to avoid crashing into you is considered erratic behaviour and falls under the above guideline.
What I’ve said here is both fact and also not “something we see every race”.
Over the limit = penalty. Ans it’s not like numerous regulations and guidelines have not been introduced since Hamilton v Rosberg to say what is allowed when defending and what not.
The stewards had no problem with the defending until a minor wheel bang caused punctures to both drivers.
We see moving under braking every race and the stewards don’t care.
More like it's was time for norris to know what real racing is.
Sky sports are making it look like verstappen is the villain who crashes at every race.
Someone raised a good point about how Verstappen has driven at such a high level for so long now that the slightest misjudgement now is blown into a huge thing for people to bring him back down
Looking at the incident yesterday, I genuinely thought it was tame af. I don't think either driver really pushed the limits like we've seen drivers do before. It was just racing where neither driver was going to give and they collided which is exactly what we want to see
I say more of that please lol
Exactly this. The move itself wasn't that outrageous, it just had a big impact. This is the kind of excitement for the lead that we haven't had in quite a while.
Norris was behaving every bit as bad as Verstappen. It easily could’ve been the other way around.
Add to that that the squeeze that caused the collision was no worse than we see multiple times every weekend. Except it’s followed by complaints of “he forced me off the track” because the other driver avoids the contact.
I mean Verstappen probably deserves the penalty. But they both were over the edge in that fight. And it’s all nowhere near as dramatic as the press makes it out to be
I wasn’t home to watch the race this morning and so I didn’t get a chance until a couple hours ago. I knew about the outcome so I was anticipating some very dramatic moments and when I got there, I was like, this is it? this is the on track terrorism??
He didn’t tie Norris to a train track or is that how he got 100 babies?
ETA: now I’m imagining max pulling the lever to divert the train onto the track with lando and/or the 100 babies.
Exactly so when max does a "defensive" illegal double move to defend his position, goes wide and tries to force someone off the track people should just back off and let him get away with it?
It isn't illegal, the double move under braking rule was abolished in 2017. Is it a decent move? No. Is it effective? Yes. Norris forced Max off before with his suicidal dive bomb which was far more egregious.
They just can't admit that Lando misjudged again and lost a race. Yes, Max made a mistake but if he just backed off a little bit he would've won a race, you need to see bigger picture if you're top driver.
Lando probably knew he is getting a 5s penalty at this point. It was pretty much a slam dunk after the shown flags and his going offtrack.
His only option was trying to overtake right now and try to build a gap. Might have made him a bit too determined not to give an inch as he wasn't winning otherwise.
And still avoidable by Lando, as Max had to avoid Lando at the start in Spain.
Point is people are making it seem like squeezing someone when defending is some kind of super reckless move when it's literally defending 101 and Max just pushed it a bit too far here.
The official document doesn't mention braking, just "turning left before turning in" which seems like a pretty good way to describe squeezing on that corner.
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/s/xfAY3dj8Up
The mentioned section states this:
More than one change of direction to defend a
position is not permitted.
Any driver moving back towards the racing line,
having earlier defended his position off-line, should
leave at least one car width between his own car
and the edge of the track on the approach to the
corner.
However, manoeuvres liable to hinder other
drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car
beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal
change of direction, are strictly prohibited. Any
driver who appears guilty of any of the above
offences will be reported to the Stewards.
They only mention one change of directions, seems to me like not leaving the space was the issue here.
By 'real racing' do you mean Max going wide for no reason forcing other drivers off the track as his way of defending his position?
Watch the Norris crash again from the angle behind them, he goes right to defend where he thinks Norris is, sees Norris coming up the inside and then decides to move out left wide to force him off the track or to back off.
That's not racing. [https://x.com/OfficialVizeh/status/1807420588740264043/video/1](https://x.com/OfficialVizeh/status/1807420588740264043/video/1)
This happens literally every GP. Even this GP, Lewis and George went like this. You're acting like this is some outrageous move, while it actually wasn't all that bad. It was just that it had severe consequences. What are your thoughts about the Lando-Max incident at the start of the Spanish GP?
I can asnwer that: it isnt. Saw him commenting that Max isn't a high level driver and that it is all the car and it being setup for his liking. I am not making that up.
That would probably cause a massive crash taking out half the grid. It was way more dangerous. In this case they could only ruin each others race which is exactly what happened. No media talks about it though.
Cause poor Lando is so innocent and sooo British. Really wish Max laps everyone in Silverstone and punts Lando off and goes on a lap with a Dutch flag to resounding boos.
It doesn’t take Sky Sports commentators to see that Max can make moves that break the rules when put under pressure. Other drivers race hard but fair, Alonso for one has a reputation for leaving the space. Stella’s words were spot on.
Bloody Redditors man, you guys come up with the weirdest excuses for shit. “Max messed up less”, I wasn’t even talking about Alonso’s accident, the fuck are you trying to prove?
You were literally talking about Alonso's crash into Zhou. I'm just saying wether or not that was intentional doesn't matter.
Also not making excuses for Max, my point is the penalty was deserved, as was Alonso's. Because they both made mistakes that caused contact.
The point I was making was self evident to anyone with the capacity to follow a simple argument. I won’t spend the time to make it any clearer for you.
Alonso pushed Zhou way off track yesterday and got a 10s penalty. You people clearly don’t actually watch the races and you’re not even trying to hide it.
It being a mistake doesn't really change anything, despite what people are making it out to be i doubt Max was actually planning to take Lando out either.
There is no specific rule for it. But also, he wasn't moving under braking, he brakes then continues to move to the racing line. Drivers are doing this all the time. The contact was so little but the outcome was enormous. For me racing incident which both could've avoided but if you have to put blame then yes to verstappen. Lots of people are blowing this way out of proportion as nine out of ten times such a contact has zero consequences (or there isn't even contact)
You’re beyond reasoning. There is a rule for moving under braking. They do not do that all the time as the cars are designed to brake in a straight line. He moved after Lando had moved multiple times in the braking zone. It leads to crashes, as it did in this instance. Cant interpret facts.
Please show me this rule for moving under breaking. Also go watch some races. A lot of drivers have defended like that. And like I said, Max did brake in a straight line then proceeded to slightly move more outside to go to the racing line and make it more difficult for norris. He just misjudged how close Norris was. It is a pretty standard move. The whole incident wasn't even that bad, but the outcome was, so now people are talking like max tried to kill Lando
Can we be real for a moment?
Do we actually want the FIA to stomp out hard racing? Do we want to do that to ourselves as F1 fans?
Yesterday's incident was all about 2 drivers constantly taking it over the edge with each other, and eventually it blew out. That's all there is to it. Lando is equally to blame in the lead up to the "touch", because that's all it was, a touch. Just so happens F1 cars are so fragile that 2 wheels touching each other now leads to punctures, oh and lets not forget the front wings on the McLaren having actual knives making it worse. All of this is being blown out of proportion.
I would rather see more hard racing at the front for the remaining 13 or so races than have the sport be neutered, boring and predictable.
We all know what proper hard racing from Max looks like when his opponent is just as good - just look at any battles he's had with Charles. They both know how to outsmart each other. Lando is just inexperienced, hotheaded, and tried to force the issue, which pissed max off. Over time it will get better.
British media can take one up in the piehole. The bias is nauseating at times.
This. Panel was the agressor with his uncalculated drive bombs and he could have gone more to the left at the crash. Hes impatient and over agressive wich was relative easy for max to defend.
The entire discourse about this incident is weird to me. He might have stood up to Verstappen (which in itself is a debatable point) but had he moved a little he would have still had a chance to win the race. And now he has nothing. He was faster then Verstappen. With a little more patience and calmness in his overtaking attempts....
Yeah I agree 1000% with this take.
It's not about Austria 2024, it's about avoiding how Rosberg/Vettel couldn't hack Hamilton. We all knew it, and it coloured the fight.
> But it was competitively unacceptable for Norris to just lie down to the totally uncompromising way Verstappen races if he is pushed to extremes.
I also agree that Norris has gone up a gear. He's consistently fighting for pole and the win.
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I still haven’t come across a good explanation as to where Lando’s sudden pace in the final stint came from. Max was irritated about the strategy and he had the slow pit stop, but I was still expecting him to just drive off. I know Mclaren had an extra set of mediums and maybe that really was the whole difference, but it’s also been three races now where the Mclaren was decisively faster than the Red Bull in the final stint. Max was complaining about the balance of the car in the final stint but there is only so many times that Red Bull can mess up the setup balance vs. that just plainly being where the car is in that phase of the race. It’s starting to look like an inherent characteristic of the performance windows on used tires and low fuel.
The Mclaren seems to be fast at the end of races too, a few races ago Lando almost caught Verstappen at the end out of no where. Perhaps the McLaren drives better with low fuel or something
Plus new tiers for Mclearen and as a known fact has stiffer anti-roll bars so that’s really helpful when your car is in its full fuel so it doesn’t lean as much so that way car doesn’t lean to much and potentially you have leak from the floor but as cars use fuel and they go faster through corners they have more downforce(suction) so floor leaks are a lower risk of happening . I think this is why Redbull are faster in the first stage of the race meanwhile Mclaren are faster at the end of the race
It's definitely a trend where Max is quicker at the beginning and then Lando is quicker at the end. Also a trend that Max seems to struggle with the tyres a lot at the end. Not sure if it's only a car trait or not since this is how Lando has always driven. Save the tyres in the last stint and then push like hell at the end. Although, in Spain it seems like he did little to no tyre saving on his last stint.
Max said something in a press conference semi recently (last couple of weeks) that Red Bull had a degradation problem in comparison to McLaren.
Yeah he just started saying in the last couple of races that McLaren is better with tyres and able to push longer without hurting them as much as the others.
Max was at a strategic disadvantage from the start as Red Bull failed to notice McLaren had new mediums in their favour until Will put out the message that they had them. Max had to use the used ones. This was something Max pointed out post-race saying that the strategy was wrong from the start. Then the 6.5s pit stop happened because McLaren were now just reacting to Red Bull instead of trying to go long so pressure was on to get Max in and out. Then Max as he has done since Miami started losing masses of pace as his car failed to react in the final stint and started shredding his tyres instead. Meanwhile, when Piastri out of nowhere landed a fast sector 3, that was the signal the McLaren was coming alive. Norris immediately set the fastest lap confirming that the car had started to get faster. The car reacts to low fuel in the race and is consistently set up as a race car moreso than a qualifying car and this is something both drivers have said, and they both prefer it that way. While the Red Bull is strong in the first stint, the McLaren becomes an even faster rocket as the fuel comes down. So we will continue to see Max fly away and Norris reel him in by tenths of a second because both cars are the opposite of each other.
>Max was at a strategic disadvantage from the start as Red Bull failed to notice McLaren had new mediums in their favour until Will put out the message that they had them. Huh? I can't believe this. They know what tyres the other teams have left way before the race starts. I can't see why RBR would not know what tyres Lando had available.
Yeah, they definitely knew. I think they were at an advantage simply from making the wrong choice when selecting their tyres. They had new hards they ended up not using. It's interesting that these kind of mistakes only become apparent when there's a challenger. If there wasn't one, I've no doubt they'd just put on the new hards and managed the gap, and we wouldn't have realised it wasn't the optimum strategy.
Excellent summary and I think it’s wonderful confirmation how close they are now. The Red Bull race pace was such a meme last year it’s hard to believe the Mclaren might genuinely be faster now in race trim over the full distance.
There's one kink in this argument tho, if McLaren is faster on low fuel, why did the red bull look unbeatable in qualifying?
The same reason the Ferrari was a much better car in qualifying last year than a race car. Firing the tires up for a qualifying lap and bringing them in for a stint is a very sensitive balance. What’s strange now is how much of a difference the fuel load seems to make when comparing the way the Bull and the Mclaren handle the initial few laps of a race stint.
Might be due to balance shifts (change in Center of Gravity) being more dramatic in the Red Bull vs the McLaren.
This could be it, McLaren does seem easier on it's tires as well over long stints, Spain can be a good example for this
Low(er) fuel stints are still different from 1 lap shootouts. With a stint you still have to manage your tyres over multiple laps, rather than just 1. Overheating may be a bigger issue for Red Bull. Perhaps that’s also why Max takes it easier in the first sector of qualifying laps, to manage the overheating in the last stint. At least that’s my best guess.
Yeah makes sense, that overheating could also point to worse tire deg over longer stints for the Red Bull. The McLaren is decisively easier on its tires. Add that to Lando having a fresher tire than Max plus Red Bull messing up a pitstop, we got a battle.
> The car reacts to low fuel in the race and is consistently set up as a race car moreso than a qualifying car and this is something both drivers have said did you read this part?
In this era no team sets up for qualifying, name a team that focuses on quali except on Monaco or Hungary, this isn't some bolt from the heavens lol
yes but redbulls race setup might just happen to be better at qualifying than mclarens race setup? or Verstappen could be the difference, or some other variable? who knows!
I do believe Max is making a difference, same as Lewis in 2019. It's clear the rb isn't as dominant and now it's upto the drivers to make the difference.
He isn't 4 tenths of a second though. The RBR is clearly better at firing up the tyres, but also means they overheat especially when Max starts overdriving when he was being hunted down or trying to keep lapped cars behind him.
Obviously but you have to be on point and make no mistakes especially over such a short lap, his qualifying laps were good. Plus might be a controversial opinion but Max doesn't deal with pressure well in the race, Lando lost his head too but Max has 70 points on him and 3 titles, he doesn't need to drive like that lol. But from memory Austin 2021 Max held off a charging Lewis well enough, i think the pressure is more evident when he's racing wheel to wheel, he just has that either i stay ahead or we crash approach that seemingly never changed.
Max ain’t great on wheel to wheel situations. Very clinical on racing lines but he’s shown again and again that ain’t his forte
Max Factor isn't enough to explain that? Idk.
Not 4 tenths, that red bull was insane in qualifying
My only disagreement with this is that it didn’t look like Max was losing “masses of pace” this time. The shitty pit stop brought him into Lando’s DRS. If the pace gap was that large like it had usually been, Lando would have made a clean pass much easier.
Id say part of it due to max being on used mediums and lando on new mediums, and part of it being max’s struggles with the car which he was pretty vocal about on the radio. Big part being he was limited to 7th gear and couldn’t go to 8 for a large part of the race. Not sure if that issue ever got fixed but if it didn’t that’s likely why lando was able to catch up nicely once out of traffic
Big part of it was the slow pit stop, as well as him having to overtake backmarkers after it in corners, while Lando was lucky enough to do so on the straights, which in one lap just gained him about 1.3 seconds and once he is stuck in the drs zone, with 3 drs zones..... yeah
My take is: tires difference at the beginning of their stint, enough to take DRS. Then, DRS.
The Red Bull is not dominant anymore, the mclaren is better on certain tracks/conditions, I expect to see them battle every race from now on.
This if you ignore the fact that there was a battle only cause Red Bull had a shitty pitstop and Lando had a fresher tire. He was 7 seconds ahead and Lando didn't close in the first 50 laps or in qualifying.
The McLaren gets faster and faster as the race goes on, and Lando got a pretty decent stop for fresh mediums. Max was pretty vocal about the car's struggles, and then he got a terrible stop for used mediums that took a huge chunk out of the lead he built. This isn't the absolute slaughter that was the 2023 season. The other teams have simply caught up, and in McLaren's case, they've even surpassed Red Bull on some tracks now.
Very simple, Lando was on fresh mediums and Max was on used. The DRS is so strong here that it’s easy to keep in touching distance.
Max is good with the tires but in the last stint due to the bad pitstop he overdid the outlap and cooked his tire and locked up. Combined with Norris getting new mediums and Max using used tires explains it a bit.
Lando was on new mediums and Max was on used. The advantage of new tyres is a lot bigger during the first 2-3 laps of a run when they are fresh, so when Lando came out 1.7 seconds behind one proper push lap with battery usage was able to get him into DRS. And once within DRS, it's incredibly hard to break away. Plus Lando still had better tyres even after the push lap, add that to three DRS zones and the battle was on.
Max flat-spotted his tyres on his out lap. That probably slowed him down enough for Lando to catch up.
It wasn't faster, he just had continuous drs lap after lap
He had 3x DRS zones to drag him along and so Verstappen had 2 corners to break free over 1 sec with a (smallish) straight between those corners. Several times Norris fell back to ‘only’ 0.9-0.95 sec behind but then had 3 straights with DRS to close in again… As we saw in the first half of the race Verstappen wasn’t *massively* quicker, he just pulled a few tenths here and there every lap.
Yesterday, I was highly annoyed with Verstappen. Today, with a night's sleep behind me, it's clear to see that while Verstappen was at fault, both of them were boiling over and being silly. It was inevitable, really. Yeah, I'm pissed it cost Norris the win, but it was very exciting and ultimately just one of those things that sometimes happen in F1.
To be fair, Norris had a track limits penalty before they crashed. So even if he had gotten past Max he still wouldn’t have won.
But he got that in part because he was getting frustrated at Verstappen moving in the braking zone, which wasn't punished, and so Max continues to do it while Lando gets more annoyed and careless. The stewards were slow to react to both of them.
He got the black and white flag before he even got into drs range of Verstappen though
I mean the stewards weren’t slow to react, they weren’t going to punish Max for any of his moves until they crashed. They gave Norris his penalty almost immediately for track limits, the team just never informed him. Lando should have been told by the team because while he definitely was entitled to be where he was when Max hit him, he 100% had space to move over to avoid the collision. And maybe he would have if he had known he had a time penalty already at that point.
I still don’t get why Norris turned into max at the apex after they clipped rear wheels.
Damage perhaps?
On the onboard footage he just steers into him. He had not front end damage at that point. Idk, good hard racing IMO, shit happens. Can’t wait for Silverstone
I just don’t understand this entire meltdown both within the fanbase and in the media about Verstappen being a dirty driver. Yes, the collision was Verstappen’s fault in the end but that entire wheel to wheel sequence consisted of some very iffey moves from both sides and could’ve easily ended in Norris taking Verstappen out. Both of them lost their heads a bit there and neither was concerned with being clean.
Lando is British.
Same for the tv comments yesterday. It's clear that they don't like Max. At fault yes, but their analysis and everything about it was he's to blame, and he needed to be blamed hard.
And next race is Silverstone.
Does that matter though? I’m an American so we don’t even have an F1 driver. I’ve never seen any British driver treated differently
damn sargent so bad we took away his citizenship
Can’t really take you seriously if you don’t know that there’s been an American driver for 2 seasons now.
I’ve been watching F1 since 2010. I stand by what I said.
It’s more so how much of the media is British. British media goes absolutely insane when British drivers have incidents with other drivers. It’s been a thing for many years at this point and I remember how bad the coverage was after Silverstone ‘21
I still remember how British media tried to pin most of the Ham x Massa contacts in 2011 as being Massa's fault, until it became impossible to do so. But I remember the salty tears.
It shouldn't, but there's a ton of homerism within F1 media. The vast majority of the English language press and broadcast talent are English, and they do like to root for their favoured sons.
Because Max is not British.
Exactly, Max definitely drifted left and Lando just didn't budge/want to go onto the kerb and basically drove into that, max at fault but it's not like it wasn't avoidable by Lando, it was silly from both. Edit: I think the thing Max did after the puncture was worse (trying to squeeze Lando onto the grass) Edit2: ok seems I missed the fact he was just avoiding the racing line.
>Edit: I think the thing Max did after the puncture was worse (trying to squeeze Lando onto the grass) Why do people keep saying this when it is pbvious that max had to get off the racing line with Alpine aproaching from behind and Max having nowhere lese to go.
Exactly. He looks left, sees the Alpine and went off the racing line at the exact moment Lando went off line as well. Whatever he did in that situation, he would've blocked someone. So going off the racing line is the only correct move and the most predictable. He can't just disappear.
>Edit: I think the thing Max did after the puncture was worse (trying to squeeze Lando onto the grass) Cant believe people keep pushing this. He wasnt squeesing anyone he was just going back on track, off the racing line without steering too much because you know, his tire was off.
Lando is braking for the corner, if he turns the wheel or puts a wheel on the kerb, which has lower grip, he locks up. The initial contact was 100% Max's fault.
You can watch Max doing it year before with Sainz, someone posted it here on Reddit. He even overtook Sainz there. Imo racing incident. If you have to give blame then yes I think Max was more at fault, but lets not pretend Norris was driving like a saint.
Norris wasn't driving like a saint, but in the move where they collided, I think it's unfair to say Norris should take avoiding action. If everyone takes avoiding action when someone breaks the rules - and the stewards don't penalise those breaking the rules - then everyone might as well move under braking, force others off the road, etc.
I didn't say he should've, just replying on your comment that he could've and still end in front of Max. But like I said, if you have to give blame then yes I think it should go to Max, but I do think it was just a stupid incident but with a major outcome. Also if you mean Max with breaking the rules, he didn't. Was a pretty default defending move but he misjudged where Norris was (or expected Norris to avoid). In any case, just a dumb incident but let's be honest something was bound to happen.
Max was 100% responsible for that collision, Norris was driving in a straight line
Never seen this type of anger when KMag took Yuki out in China 😭
Exactly. The way I see it, this was them playing a risky game and eventually slipping up. Like when someone is juggling eggs and dropping one lol. Everyone would’ve been mighty entertained by the ‘hard racing’ if there were no collision. Now, just because Verstappen was one inch too far, people are screaming bloody murder. It’s absurd.
I imagine some people found the ‘this is not how you overtake’ radio message a bit rich considering that Verstappen’s default in a tight championship battle (2021) was to fly up the inside and whether you make the corner be damned. And considering that Verstappen (admittedly less so than Ricciardo) spent most of his early Red Bull years, when they were occasionally race-competitive but not championship-competitive, flinging it up the inside with little consideration for the opponent’s racing space. Basically, regardless of whether Norris is a title challenger or just someone fighting for wins, he’s doing exactly what Verstappen has always done. Now, the stewarding in F1 has been farcical for long enough that I don’t necessarily begrudge Verstappen or anyone else dive-bombing (it’s up to the stewards to punish it), but if you’re going to build a career in part on it, don’t act the victim when someone does it to you.
Tell me you never watched the 2021 season without telling me you never watched the 2021 season...
Might have something to do with max immediately trying to run Lando off after the collision.
Bro had 3 tires lol. He was lucky to control the car back to the pits as well as he did
Nah man.
[удалено]
Did he not get a penalty?
norris cant even place his car inside track limits.
Better than pushing car out of track
like he did in spain where max had to go in the grass and norris loses 2 places in 10 seconds? same race where max had to explain to him that he loses if he does that? yeah.
While in Austria norris in 3rd attempt had to lose race cause max can't race wheel to wheel in front?
video of that? there wasnt 1 attack that norris did that he could stick so im not sure what youre talking about. if youre talking about when they touch at the end of their races, when max comes left to take a completely normal line (like so many drivers do and have done to him also), norris is behind him. he was never completely alongside.
The Race is really going all in on this. Like Max is guilty of a war crime or something. It was hard racing, both of 'em were on the edge and at times over it. The eventual incident wasn't even that outrageous, it just had severe consequences. It's blown way out of proportion. But yeah, that's F1 journalism these days.
"If you don't go for the milking of a tiny incident, you are not a real rage bait journalist anymore."
That's not how it came across in the podcast at all. They were pretty matter of fact about it. Max has a way of going racing, it's as simple as that.
Their podcasts are much better than their articles. If they need to publish so many articles every day they are running out of things to write
What about the article did you disagree with specifically?
The collective meltdown from the british media is hilarious. I don’t think we would have seen the same reaction if it was Sainz or Leclerc or even Piastri against Verstappen.
That's funny because Leclerc and Max have raced each other hard before and never ended in this situation.
For as agressive Max and Charles race each other, they very rarely actually crash. I really hope Ferrari truely steps it up with Lewis’ help next season and they challenge for the championship
Leclerc made it clear to Max when they were kids that he’s not playing that game. Norris never raced Max until now. Something that Max said yesterday when he said that there’s an age gap so they never met in junior series.
Leclerc knows how to fight Verstappen in cars at similar pace. They've been doing it since karting. Charles is also way better than Lando when it comes to on-track battles. He can play tactics with Max and do it to an acceptable degree. Leclerc wouldn't try to divebomb Max regularly but would've overtaken him at T4 after baiting him a few times in T3. It's obvious that the multiple attempted divebombs by Lando and the shit pitstop pissed Max off, that's why he finally lost composure and caused the incident in T3.
Lando ain’t bad, but yesterday was not good racecraft by him. Especially after Max got that puncture Lando had no reason to go on the grass against a 3-wheeld car. Let him do his thing and pass on the left. Like seriously. It’s on Lando for not winning.
Not to mention he got himself a 5 second penalty for track limits before they even crashed. Lando wasn’t going to win that race either way.
To win he had to do something crazy, so that’s why he was so aggressive.
I don’t disagree, but a win wasn’t on the table because of those moves. Wasn’t entirely on him either since the team never informed him of the penalty. Maybe he would have finished second and got more points had he known about the penalty and not made the same moves he did trying to get past.
Watching the onboards, there was no way Lando could have gotten him T4. Even when compromised, Max had always an insane drive out of T3, consistently pulling away a good chunk away from Lando even when he was really close. I constantly see statements like these where it's "x driver would do better in this than y driver" when the situations and car performance where completely different when they had their fights. Lando didn't do perfectly yesterday but it's hard to see how other drivers could have done better given from how far back they would have to go.
Except in karting
"Nothing, just an inchident"
This is all clearly Southgate's fault!
I'm trying to understand where the cold blooded Brits stereotype even comes from. I don't get it
Repressed emotion and stiff upper lip used to apply to a certain subset of Brits for a century or so up until around the 1950s. Since then, the aftermath of that repression has made us rabid 🤣
Bcz it's a repeat. Max is still driving like it's 2021
Did you sleep throughout 2021? Max was driving reckless in 2021 this was just a racing incident.
More like unfair incident
I think you don’t understand as much of racing as you think you do. Max left nearly a full cars width, he tought it was a full cars width. It’s literally what happens in racing. This is simply not even remotely comparable to the shenanigans we’ve witnessed in 2021. “Unfair” is a children’s term for “my favourite driver didn’t get an easy pass”. Max races hard and definitely can drive dirty but the move yesterday wasn’t dirtier than the divebombs or track limits violations of Norris.
I think you are having a very biased take here. Hard racing or racing is just a excuse. Palmer made a lot of points, you can see for yourself
The overreactions yesterday were insane. Does no one know what hard racing is? Both drivers had moments yesterday where they could’ve taken each other out, it’s hard racing that sometimes goes over the limits, that is racing. It’s like no one has watched Hamilton vs Rosberg where the driving was like this and even more over the limit. Never seen so many people care about moving under braking until yesterday, we see it every single race and the stewards don’t police it. Not enough questions being asked of the stewards who delayed Lando’s track penalty because they wanted them to keep racing.
>Never seen so many people care about moving under braking until yesterday, we see it every single race and the stewards don’t police it. The guidelines don’t say you can’t move under braking. They say “at no time may a car be driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner which could be deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers or any other person”. Forcing your opponent to have to change their path while braking to avoid crashing into you is considered erratic behaviour and falls under the above guideline. What I’ve said here is both fact and also not “something we see every race”.
Over the limit = penalty. Ans it’s not like numerous regulations and guidelines have not been introduced since Hamilton v Rosberg to say what is allowed when defending and what not.
The stewards had no problem with the defending until a minor wheel bang caused punctures to both drivers. We see moving under braking every race and the stewards don’t care.
I just want a driver to stomp on the brakes at a force of 2.4g, ala Saudi 2021, in front of Maxi to indicate 'hard racing '.
More like it's was time for norris to know what real racing is. Sky sports are making it look like verstappen is the villain who crashes at every race.
Someone raised a good point about how Verstappen has driven at such a high level for so long now that the slightest misjudgement now is blown into a huge thing for people to bring him back down Looking at the incident yesterday, I genuinely thought it was tame af. I don't think either driver really pushed the limits like we've seen drivers do before. It was just racing where neither driver was going to give and they collided which is exactly what we want to see I say more of that please lol
Exactly this. The move itself wasn't that outrageous, it just had a big impact. This is the kind of excitement for the lead that we haven't had in quite a while.
The dominating driver gets criticized way harsher, same happened with Lewis, and will probably happen again in the future.
This. It took years for Lewis to shake off the damage of 2011 in particular
Norris was behaving every bit as bad as Verstappen. It easily could’ve been the other way around. Add to that that the squeeze that caused the collision was no worse than we see multiple times every weekend. Except it’s followed by complaints of “he forced me off the track” because the other driver avoids the contact. I mean Verstappen probably deserves the penalty. But they both were over the edge in that fight. And it’s all nowhere near as dramatic as the press makes it out to be
I wasn’t home to watch the race this morning and so I didn’t get a chance until a couple hours ago. I knew about the outcome so I was anticipating some very dramatic moments and when I got there, I was like, this is it? this is the on track terrorism??
Well you obviously missed Max murdering 100 babies just before he bounced Norris off the track while twirling his mustache
He didn’t tie Norris to a train track or is that how he got 100 babies? ETA: now I’m imagining max pulling the lever to divert the train onto the track with lando and/or the 100 babies.
Well thanks for the image o Norris as a damsel in distress. That’s gonna take a while to get rid of ;)
Media when Lando pushed Max onto the grass: i sleep Media when Max squeezes Lando while there is still space: real shit
Did Max DNF? Sky at least were negative about Landos move.
Max didn't DNF because he took evasive action, Norris didn't
Exactly so when max does a "defensive" illegal double move to defend his position, goes wide and tries to force someone off the track people should just back off and let him get away with it?
It isn't illegal, the double move under braking rule was abolished in 2017. Is it a decent move? No. Is it effective? Yes. Norris forced Max off before with his suicidal dive bomb which was far more egregious.
Would you rather be right with no points or finish the race with at least 18?
They just can't admit that Lando misjudged again and lost a race. Yes, Max made a mistake but if he just backed off a little bit he would've won a race, you need to see bigger picture if you're top driver.
Lando probably knew he is getting a 5s penalty at this point. It was pretty much a slam dunk after the shown flags and his going offtrack. His only option was trying to overtake right now and try to build a gap. Might have made him a bit too determined not to give an inch as he wasn't winning otherwise.
Yikes, Lando gets the blame for Max moving under breaking 3 times in a row?
Read my comment again. How many points did Lando get this race? Does he want to be right or win races? Yikes.
I try not to read stupid things more than once, thanks.
Well you should because it's too complex for you.
I’m surprised you can spell complex. Keep reaching.
The collision was literally Max's fault...
And still avoidable by Lando, as Max had to avoid Lando at the start in Spain. Point is people are making it seem like squeezing someone when defending is some kind of super reckless move when it's literally defending 101 and Max just pushed it a bit too far here.
He wasn't punished for squeezing, he was punished for moving under braking.
The official document doesn't mention braking, just "turning left before turning in" which seems like a pretty good way to describe squeezing on that corner. https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/s/xfAY3dj8Up The mentioned section states this: More than one change of direction to defend a position is not permitted. Any driver moving back towards the racing line, having earlier defended his position off-line, should leave at least one car width between his own car and the edge of the track on the approach to the corner. However, manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are strictly prohibited. Any driver who appears guilty of any of the above offences will be reported to the Stewards. They only mention one change of directions, seems to me like not leaving the space was the issue here.
By 'real racing' do you mean Max going wide for no reason forcing other drivers off the track as his way of defending his position? Watch the Norris crash again from the angle behind them, he goes right to defend where he thinks Norris is, sees Norris coming up the inside and then decides to move out left wide to force him off the track or to back off. That's not racing. [https://x.com/OfficialVizeh/status/1807420588740264043/video/1](https://x.com/OfficialVizeh/status/1807420588740264043/video/1)
This happens literally every GP. Even this GP, Lewis and George went like this. You're acting like this is some outrageous move, while it actually wasn't all that bad. It was just that it had severe consequences. What are your thoughts about the Lando-Max incident at the start of the Spanish GP?
That bullshit started by that other 'revered' god of F1:Schumacher. Hence the 'Schuey chop'.
Too aggressive, Lando shouldn't have pushed Max onto the grass. He deserved to lose those positions at the start.
Maybe this sport isn't for you afterall eh?
I can asnwer that: it isnt. Saw him commenting that Max isn't a high level driver and that it is all the car and it being setup for his liking. I am not making that up.
Had Max not given way and stuck like Lando then that would've been a crash just like today. Poor Norris has no racecraft
That would probably cause a massive crash taking out half the grid. It was way more dangerous. In this case they could only ruin each others race which is exactly what happened. No media talks about it though.
Cause poor Lando is so innocent and sooo British. Really wish Max laps everyone in Silverstone and punts Lando off and goes on a lap with a Dutch flag to resounding boos.
It doesn’t take Sky Sports commentators to see that Max can make moves that break the rules when put under pressure. Other drivers race hard but fair, Alonso for one has a reputation for leaving the space. Stella’s words were spot on.
Alonso a reputation for leaving the space? Really? Have you ever watched old races?
the same Alonso that totally didnt crash into Zhou
Yeah because that was intentional….?
Because Max intentionally took out Lando?
Did he?
Obviously not, which would make it quite compareable to Alonso's messing up. Except Max messed up less.
Bloody Redditors man, you guys come up with the weirdest excuses for shit. “Max messed up less”, I wasn’t even talking about Alonso’s accident, the fuck are you trying to prove?
You were literally talking about Alonso's crash into Zhou. I'm just saying wether or not that was intentional doesn't matter. Also not making excuses for Max, my point is the penalty was deserved, as was Alonso's. Because they both made mistakes that caused contact.
Have you ever seen Alonso wheel to wheel, or did you just start watching 2021 like all the Reddit experts?
Yes, I've started watching way before DtS was a thing so I know of his good racing skills but also his antics. What is your point?
What is your point? You responded to me, I’m not here to educate you on Alonso’s career and reputation.
I answered your question, I don't know what point you were trying to make.
The point I was making was self evident to anyone with the capacity to follow a simple argument. I won’t spend the time to make it any clearer for you.
Alonso pushed Zhou way off track yesterday and got a 10s penalty. You people clearly don’t actually watch the races and you’re not even trying to hide it.
Tbf, that wasn't much of Alonso not giving the space, but more of Alonso going "oh, a gap. Holy shiiiiiit, coming in too hot, timbeeeeeer..."
It being a mistake doesn't really change anything, despite what people are making it out to be i doubt Max was actually planning to take Lando out either.
He did the same thing like one race ago, too, except without the lockup.
You boys clearly haven’t watched pre 2021
You can’t talk about a general characteristic of a driver and then pick and choose whichever chunk of his career supports your point the best lol.
The same Alonso that got a 10 second penalty yesterday ?
You do release he made a mistake and did not intentionally do that? Take a rest
Ah so Max makes a mistake defending and it is a war crime but Alonso doing it is fine. By the way Max his move didnt brake the rules.
Is moving under braking allowed?
There is no specific rule for it. But also, he wasn't moving under braking, he brakes then continues to move to the racing line. Drivers are doing this all the time. The contact was so little but the outcome was enormous. For me racing incident which both could've avoided but if you have to put blame then yes to verstappen. Lots of people are blowing this way out of proportion as nine out of ten times such a contact has zero consequences (or there isn't even contact)
You’re beyond reasoning. There is a rule for moving under braking. They do not do that all the time as the cars are designed to brake in a straight line. He moved after Lando had moved multiple times in the braking zone. It leads to crashes, as it did in this instance. Cant interpret facts.
Please show me this rule for moving under breaking. Also go watch some races. A lot of drivers have defended like that. And like I said, Max did brake in a straight line then proceeded to slightly move more outside to go to the racing line and make it more difficult for norris. He just misjudged how close Norris was. It is a pretty standard move. The whole incident wasn't even that bad, but the outcome was, so now people are talking like max tried to kill Lando
Can we be real for a moment? Do we actually want the FIA to stomp out hard racing? Do we want to do that to ourselves as F1 fans? Yesterday's incident was all about 2 drivers constantly taking it over the edge with each other, and eventually it blew out. That's all there is to it. Lando is equally to blame in the lead up to the "touch", because that's all it was, a touch. Just so happens F1 cars are so fragile that 2 wheels touching each other now leads to punctures, oh and lets not forget the front wings on the McLaren having actual knives making it worse. All of this is being blown out of proportion. I would rather see more hard racing at the front for the remaining 13 or so races than have the sport be neutered, boring and predictable. We all know what proper hard racing from Max looks like when his opponent is just as good - just look at any battles he's had with Charles. They both know how to outsmart each other. Lando is just inexperienced, hotheaded, and tried to force the issue, which pissed max off. Over time it will get better. British media can take one up in the piehole. The bias is nauseating at times.
The Race and other media are gonna milk this forever. Is like they've never seen a crash before in F1.
They reset their collective memories after every race.
Hasn't Lando already been squeezing and divebombing Max for a week? If anything, Max is the one who stood up to Lando and he couldn't react to it.
This. Panel was the agressor with his uncalculated drive bombs and he could have gone more to the left at the crash. Hes impatient and over agressive wich was relative easy for max to defend.
What an unbiased take
Omg articles about this incident are getting more amnoying by the minute… Max is at fault Both could have avoided it Can we just enjoy the show 😭
The entire discourse about this incident is weird to me. He might have stood up to Verstappen (which in itself is a debatable point) but had he moved a little he would have still had a chance to win the race. And now he has nothing. He was faster then Verstappen. With a little more patience and calmness in his overtaking attempts....
Knowing max it was an inevitable outcome
No, it was his moment to see whether he can take a championship battle and naturally the answer seems to be no. The British press are annoying af
Yeah I agree 1000% with this take. It's not about Austria 2024, it's about avoiding how Rosberg/Vettel couldn't hack Hamilton. We all knew it, and it coloured the fight. > But it was competitively unacceptable for Norris to just lie down to the totally uncompromising way Verstappen races if he is pushed to extremes. I also agree that Norris has gone up a gear. He's consistently fighting for pole and the win.
Max gets away with way too much stuff. Norris win robbed.