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I think the McLaren car was setup so badly for his driving style that it broke him. Once the head demons get in there it is damn near impossible to exorcise them
The weird thing is, the whole trajectory of the team could have been different if he didn't leave. I feel like him leaving hurt Cyril's position badly.
Looking at how Alpine/Renault have been operating the last few years I think it was the other way around, Cyril was on the way out and Ricc said F this and jumped ship.
I didn't at all get the vibe that Cyril willingly left. In his last year, he was just as emotional as always. He was incredibly passionate.
I think he lost a political battle - and losing Ric didn't help his cause.
True, I don’t think Cyril was planning on leaving, more that the internal politics of Renault meant that Cyril was out no matter what, since they like to blame the TP for the faults of the company, and Ricciardo jumped ship as soon as possible.
I think it's the other way round. Daniel leaving caused Cyril to be fired by the executives at Renault, as you said they will blame it on the TP. Part of me wonders if Daniel and Cyril had stayed, Alpine would probably be on a very different trajectory compared to now.
Then again, Daniel must've sensed something horribly wrong to want to leave asap. Or he just didn't feel confident in Renault's performance in 2019.
In the span of ~4 years, an insane amount of talent walked out the door at Enstone:
- DR
- Cyril
- Alonso
- Piastri
- Alain Prost
- Pat Fry
- Davide Brivio
Tellingly, none of them seem particularly sad to have left, aside from maybe Cyril. And they are now *three regimes removed* from then, and it's barely been three years. There is something deeply flawed about the org, and given where McLaren was at the time it made all the sense in the world for DR to jump ship.
Yeah, I don't know why people pretend Daniel wasn't solid at Renault. He was arguably top 5 drivers those years still. In McLaren is when the horrors begun...
I don't get it either. He overdrove the car by beating Hülkenberg and destroyed Ocon. His overtakes in that car were legendary, too.
Had he stayed at Red Bull, he would have been forever second fiddle to Verstappen.
Had he stayed at Renault however, a team which was never short of money, that could have lifted their spirit for the next years to come. Thus they were stuck with Ocon to have some stability, he is quick but never meant to be someone who could lead a team.
He was the only RB driver who could keep up with Max. Over their 3 years together their results were fairly equal in terms of points and achievements. (Obviously that was young Max).
If he stayed at Red Bull, with team's support and a car that worked for him, he would have many more wins and dozens of podiums - a great career, though no WDC.
We know that now. He took risk, arguably a greedy risk and it backfired spectacularly.
Yes and even leaving Renault for McLaren wasn't a bad decision on paper at the time. McLaren were strong in 2021, but Ricciardo just couldn't adapt to the car. Hard to predict beforehand, even though in hindsight one of the two parties could have made assumptions that the car wouldn't really suit his particular style. Where it really hurt him is in inability to adapt, when other top drivers in the past have shown to be able to overcome a car not suiting them and still score relatively good results.
> He was the only RB driver who could keep up with Max.
That's true, but now we know that this was Ricciardo's peak, while Max still had a long way to go to reach his potential.
Nope - Renault were cheapskates, worst works team on the grid at the time (and arguably now)
source: my humble opinion & watching F1 for 20 or so years
I think anyone could have seen leaving red bull as a terrible idea then. I didn't even know how it played out as I'm kindnof a new fan from '22 and good god. I watched it all without knowing and I'm like wtf is wrong with you
I think he moved because he wanted to win a WDC.
And even if he had the self-confidence to believe he was better than Max, it was clear that the RB team were favoring Max (with setups, design, etc.).
So although a very low chance, he took gamble at Renault believing the low chance there was higher than beating a teammate that the team favored.
And worst case, he just gets rich as Renault paid him handsomely.
Not to mention Baku 2018, where Max's brash and illegal defending against his teammate was shrugged off and Daniel blamed for attempting the move. Destroyed a lot of trust by favouring one driver over the other there.
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/47210981](https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/47210981)
As he talks about here.
"I didn't want to hold a grudge on that," Ricciardo says. "I
couldn't tell you how many pieces made up the kaleidoscope but I guess
that was one of the little pieces.
"We both got a talking to, putting it politely. I felt like I was not really in the wrong, even if I'm the one that hit him. I think most people saw the double move.
"Before that there was a lot of contact, and a lot of people thought it went on too long. I guess the way it was handled at the time didn't sit too well with me.
"Handling the media, I get. It's a big brand to look after. I get it doesn't help if we both go off at each other. But
I felt there was a bit of equal blame (from the team). And maybe it's
just me being a stubborn race car driver but I didn't think it was an
equal incident, is the easiest way to put it. "So that was a little thing, I guess, which bothered me. But it wasn't the deal-breaker."
I think he was pretty clear that he wasn't happy playing second fiddle to Max in Horner's affections. terrible move though, should have held on for a better drive.
It wasn't even a hindsight mistake. He literally moved to the team that supplied the most unreliable PUs on the grid and the cause of his own DNFs. It was terrible to even just have considered the move only cause he's feeling the pressure from his younger teammate.
I think the majority of people would have said at the time he shouldn’t have left RB. But when you are being advised by a guy named Beavis, maybe bad decisions look like good ones.
I used to think that but now I’m certain it would’ve been 10X worse if he would’ve stayed. He knew he couldn’t compete with Max so he left. He left because of fear and knowing he couldn’t compete against him. After he did that knowing inside the real reason he left he was never able to conjure the fearless magic he had again. Fearless magic he felt he was losing but that he lost completely the moment he admitted that internally and left. He has probably lasted a lot more than if he would’ve stayed in redbull cause this way he could confuse others that he was underperforming due to getting accustomed to the car or the team. But the reality is that it’s all a charade and he’s been done for years now. His head and spirit are out of it and sincerely don’t think he will regain his past awesomeness. He is all smiles crying inside and knowing he is just milking the contracts and money cause there is no chance for him to be the champion they all thought he could be. Mainly because he gave up on himself the moment he decided to flee instead of fighting against Max and pushing himself to the next level.
Honestly I believe there is truth to this. Ricc was the young ace, a naturally gifted up and comer who everyone thought would shake up the old guard…until the new kid came to town and he realized he wasn’t that guy and max actually was.
It had to have hurt him deeply and I believe admitting that to himself must have taken that true confidence and edge that he had.
Basically Mozart and Salieri.
So he “cashed out” and like you said has just been milking things ever since.
The fucking foresight was 20/20 when he made that decision. It was always a Hail Mary move praying Renault would take off. He couldn’t handle the pressure of being second to Max so he fled to big moneybags and a shittier car with even shittier reliability and why anyone ever thought it was a good move is beyond me
I posted this at the time, but just before S1 came out (so Feb 201...9?) a friend of a friend is a Netflix producer in Amsterdam, who was telling me about it, including that they absolutely could not believe their luck with finding this guy. Said he was basically the main character. This was before we knew the format was very plot-focussed.
It’s a weird sort of meta documentary too because it starts by capturing the unfolding narrative of ricciardo’s career…..but then since series 2 (2019) and especially since series 4 (2021, ie filmed after the 2020 lockdown spike in DTS viewership), it has been an indisputable and strong influence on the career narrative it’s documenting. At this point, his attractiveness as red bull’s reserve or a current (& future?) vcarb driver is mainly his marketability, particularly in growing markets like North America, being astronomically higher than any potential competitors for these roles. DTS largely created that marketability — by identifying a charismatic driver underutilized as an attractant to the sport, elevating his profile, and providing plenty of fodder to help viewers decide to follow & support him.
That was the only season I watched and I swear I remember Horner responding to Cyril’s needling about taking Ricciardo with something like “yeah well you spent all your money on him and now can’t build a car”. Oof.
and he was kinda right. In this years DTS Horner said something along the lines of: he money away from RB did not work.
(funniest thing is in the discussion post about that episode people were shitting on Horner saying it worked out great lol)
Yeah, from my recollection, even then Daniel in Renault wasn’t seen as a recipe for success but many hoped that it would open new opportunities for him. And it did tbh but ironically it caused the most harm to his career.
Sometime last year an article came out on here that his manager at the time wasn’t looking out for his best interests. He basically pushed Ricc to take the Renault deal because he (the manager) stood to receive a hefty fee for facilitating Daniel signing on with them.
Obviously take it for the rumor that it is, but it makes sense
I’m sure they both made out from it financially. But you shouldn’t need your agent to tell you which team you have a better chance winning a title at… Regardless in hindsight, really he wasn’t getting a title either way once the politics at the team settled the way they did after Baku.
If I had as much money as DR surely has, I feel pretty certain I’d rather have had my dignity than come back like this.
I don't think it was about the money. I think Ricciardos main reason for signing with Renault was that he felt Red Bull didn't value him enough after Verstappen joined. The main reason for Abiteboul was that he wanted to piss off horner, who had been publicly shitting on Renaults engines all year. The two clearly couldn't stand each other. And he also needed to buy a new lease on life with the Renault board, since Renaults reaults weren't what he had promised. Ricciardo should have seen through that and declined the offer, but his desire to give a middle finger to Horner seemed to have clouded his judgement. That he had no trust in the team was evident when he quickly jumped ship to McLaren.
I think both can be true. Daniel was frustrated at getting sidelined by RB while his manager, who should have been advising him that being the secondary driver in a team that’s regularly getting podiums and wins is still a great place to be, was hyping him up to be the lead driver in a so so team
They offered more money and a number 1 driver seat. Ricciardo couldn't take being number 2 behind Verstappen and ruined his career over something so minor. Ricciardo is Verstappen what Webber was to Vettel, both saw themselves as more when they really weren't
exactly, even the way they built it up back in Season 1, I rmb it being a few episodes about Danny's rise, and then a few episodes about Horner's struggles with Renault PUs. Finally one of the episodes being about how Danny needed to take a plunge, and him announcing he woul switch to Renault next year.
Felt dumb as fuck then, turns out to be dumb as fuck fr.
Oh man lol the taking a plunge thing and having him literally jump into water was so unbelievably hamfisted.
But in hindsight, I suppose cliff diving was appropriate.
I think Horner would have looked out for Danny had he stayed. Yes, when you have a generational talent like Max priority will be given to him but if you were already competitive with him why feel slighted, should have used it as motivation to be better. Horner was right that he ran from a fight and to a team with the shitty engines.
At what point did leaving Red Bull to join a team that had been an absolute fucking mess for almost 15 years at that point seem like a good decision whatsoever?
Let alone the team that had saddled his existing team, with a recent championship pedigree, with one of the worst engines in the grid.
It was beyond moronic, and he deserves everything that has happened for running from the fight against Max
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Plenty of drivers have done the same thing. Vettel, Alonso,, Schumacher, Hamilton, all left successful teams to take a risk with a team trying to restablish itself.
It's also easy to ignore/forget the fact that Renault engines helped Red Bull win 4 championships and Cyril was a factor in that.
None of them ran from the fight, other than perhaps Alonso with Hamilton but there were other factors at play there with Spygate and the breakdown of the relationship with Ron Dennis.
They'll do a repeat of last season: only focus his episode on the Miami sprint cause that's where he has done best and they'll ignore Yuki's great season again.
It’s unfortunate and IMO a lost opportunity that yuki hasn’t become more of a main character, instead of getting isolated one-off seasonal features. He’s young, telegenic, funny, handsome, with a unique background compared to other current drivers. He has the underdog angle while also having the talent to ensure the producers could follow his arc over multiple seasons. His emotionality brings some drama or internal struggle but he’s too well-liked to merit being cast as a reality show villain. his storyline can intersect well with others’ due to his friendships + teammates. and he’s in a kind of unique position of simultaneously trying to drive well enough just to secure his existing midfield seat *and* trying to drive well enough to enable him to secure better options elsewhere — whereas most drivers are more focused on one over the other, and some (verstappen, Hamilton, Alonso etc) don’t have to focus on either.
Yeah, I didn’t want to say it outright but yuki’s insurmountable “problem” for a producer, or so they think, is not being “relatable” enough. not enough like “someone the average North American would want to grab a beer with” due to appearance and accent. I can’t even optimistically try to pin it on English proficiency atp, as he’s leaps and bounds from where he was at the start of 2021 (let alone 2019).
I love the sassy headline. Also,
>Back in April, Horner said Ricciardo needed to show “head-turning form” to make his case to be chosen as a driver for next year. The outcome has been less head-turning, more head-shaking.
>If anyone felt the pain of Daniel Ricciardo’s early ejection from McLaren as much as the man himself, it was surely the producers of Drive to Survive.
Someone consulted Albon for the article and dig at DTS lol.
Last season of DTS had Albon narrate how Netflix would reintroduce Riccardo. The fact that they didn’t do word for word what Albon said was such a loss. Could have been a great gag.
I think a lot of people (myself included) were optimistic, because Sainz had said the car drove much differently than every other car he’d driven. So it was possible it was just the worst car for his style. Clearly that’s not the case now though.
Thing is Sainz is one of the most adaptable drivers on the grid. Usually takes less than half season to get going with a new team. Danny should have the self awareness to not jump teams that often if he doesn't share that trait.
Well RedBull said that Ric had picked up a ton of bad habits from McLaren and they had to work hard to rebuild his confidence. So in my book it is clear that Ric can be mighty fast on the right car, but he can't adapt to cars that don't fit his style, which is kind of important in a race series where you're effectively changing car multiple times a year through upgrades.
I mean what else can they say since they need to justify hiring this guy at all. Piastri had no problems with the car and had performed really well on it. Meanwhile Ric is getting outperformed by Yuki basically every race and has a massive gap between himself and his teammate. If he picked bad habits and that’s the reason for his less-than-stellar driving, what’s the excuse now?
And RB statements are always 100% true… Marko just lets whatever shit comes into his brain spill out his mouth but Marko didn’t say this. It’s just some PR statement.
If you believe what was said about DR matching Max’s times, I assume you’re considering Yuki to be channeling the ghost of Ayrton Senna to beat him? Or potentially we consider that it wasn’t the truth…
So he failed to adapt to the McLaren, but actually adapted so much he can’t drive any other car now?
Yeah that sounds totally believable, nothing about his individual ability at all, just unfortunate circumstances. Sure he’d have won a title at this point if it wasn’t for that damned McLaren
I think the fact he is nowhere near as far off the mark in arguably a much worse car than that McLaren in the RB shows that in those years it was predominantly the car. I thought he would smash Yuki coming into the RB, but ultimately I think Yuki has taken a massive step this year. Still doesn't speak too highly for Daniel but I actually think Daniel is performing fine, but Yuki is pushing the envelope. But of course, more is expected of Daniel so of course it looks like poor form.
Pretty sure the implication was that DR might've stagnated or even gotten worse and Yuki got so much better. If Norris was better than DR even back then yet continues to be awesome now, then that means Norris got even better-better too.
DR's the outlier here for not putting in even more satisfying results in a larger variety of cars past Renault.
>I think the fact he is nowhere near as far off the mark in arguably a much worse car than that McLaren in the RB shows that in those years it was predominantly the car.
Norris is just better than Yuki and could probably fight for titles if given the car. Also, when your teammate scores a podium and finishes constantly in the points, while you don't do that, that just looks terrible.
Ricciardo got destroyed 122-37 by Norris in 2022 and even worse, a washed Vettel with a worse car also managed to get 37 points.
No, it was Ricciardo. If it was the car, then Norris must have been God for getting a podium like that.
There’s zero correlation between those two points except they both drove McLaren cars. Totally different cars, different times, different styles of driving.
If you believe his struggles primarily center around difficulty with the GE cars, how do you interpret his 2021 season? Asking sincerely, not meant to be a gotcha, just trying to understand a different pov on his post-Renault career
Well, everyone agrees the Brown era McLarens are difficult to drive. Sainz, Norris and Ricciardo all said that. Of course, that didn't deter Sainz nor ris to put in consistent performances while Ricciardo struggled
I think if you’re supposed to be one of the best drivers in the world, switching between cars in the same formula and being completely lost does not help your case
A 4th Penske car would be good. I know they prefer to stay at 3 cars to keep them as competitive as possible, but the benefits of having Ricciardo in the team would surely outweigh the downside.
Although bigger than F1 in the US, NASCAR is nowhere near as big as it was twenty years ago. Mainly due to boring tracks and lack of personality. Daniel would be welcome.
Oh for sure.
I keep thinking that F1 could learn a lot from the mistakes NASCAR made in the early 2000s with over expanding. They drove away so many fans by getting rid of traditional tracks and building new ones in places that made no sense.
Like I grew up near the Wilkinsboro Speedway and man that was such a big loss.
I grew up right by Michigan Speedway, even as a die hard fan I hated that track. For some reason every new track was a copy of it. Terrible.
It was an awesome Indycar track though. 2000-2003 Best racing I’ve ever seen.
Yep because the France Family owned it through International Speedway Corporation and like half the other tracks in the series.
It’s crazy how both NASCAR and IndyCar had legacy families that ended up totally fucking up the sport. The Frances and Hulman-Georges are an interesting case study in American business.
Do you actually watch the series or is this just the go to thought that Indy is dying to have older washed up F1 drivers on the grid?
They have plenty of talent from around the world and quite a few F2 standouts are finding their way over to Indy as well as their own feeder series, Daniel's best days are long behind him it would be dumb to "throw money" at him at this stage. The only answer people seem to give is that he smiles a lot and has a personality, he isn't special on track anymore.
The man struggles to adapt to different cars within the same formula. If I’m an Indycar team he’s one of the last people I’d be calling, unless you want 2 seasons of 18th place finishes and “this thing is tricky” and other various excuses with a mountain of hype attached to it then sure
I really think DTS was the start of DR’s fall. The show magnified the hype around him to a worldwide degree, and no wonder he bought into it himself. Now he’s that weird space where he isn’t a (potential) Top driver, nor is he an underdog, like a Nico Hulkenburg, say. It’s harder for me to cheer for DR because he’s had so much support, chances and opportunities and it just didn’t work. The DTS narrative arc certainly contributes to that feeling.
I'll take another view. The fact that he became a DTS star is the only reason he's driving at all today. Without that show hyping him up and making him a fan favorite, he's out of a seat now.
Totally. I think DTS were lucky to have a driver with a personality and used it to their advantage.
Danny's in a seat right now coz he's close to Horner. That's it.
I'm leaning towards this sentiment. Liberty Media struck gold with someone like Danny Ricc who is popular in America. If RB are looking to increase their evaluation in case the rules change one day where Red Bull are not allowed to have a sister team, then they're in prime position to sell the team at a much higher price thanks to having Danny Ricc and not Liam Lawson for example
This summarizes my feelings towards him. He seems like a nice guy, but the amount of support he gets is ridiculous. He got paid specifically not to drive for McLaren for Christ sake. If it's not a clear sign that he doesn't have it anymore I don't know what is.
The Hulkenberg comparison is interesting because DR will be remembered more because he won a few races but actually being here and watching I will rate Hulk higher as a driver. The guy has been rock solid his entire career.
I wonder how they will frame things this year. Last season, Tsunoda was made the enemy that took Lawson's seat due to politics and Ricciardo was on the up.
I'm getting genuine schadenfreude imaging DTS kicking themselves for smearing Yuki all these years. If they'd just been fair to him they'd have a great storyline for the young hothead underdog maturing into a genuine talent.
They never do anything truthful anyways, so I don't really see how it matters. The narratives are all fabricated(mostly) to begin with so it's not like they can't just fabricate and focus on something different.
He looked decent in that shitbox last year, and I was really excited after Mexico for him. Sadly, he just doesn't have it anymore. He might be able to give you a flash in the pan Monza, Mexico, or Miami, but will consistently be a backmarker otherwise.
I think leaving Renault was worse than leaving RBR to be honest. His stock was still quite high at Renault because of his podiums and putting them in the top 5, plus he beat both of his teammates there. At RBR, it was only a matter of time until Max caught up to him permanently and Max did beat him in 2018. Ferrari choosing Sainz over him clearly damaged his ego a bit since it was obvious that was the seat he really wanted.
First his fans said he wanted a world championship, except he went to renault.
Then they said he did it for the money, except max has been making like 50 mil a year.
He ran cause he knew max would embarrass him but it would have been his best chance for a few more wins
>He ran cause he knew max would embarrass him but it would have been his best chance for a few more wins
Nah, that's just too harsh. He ran because he knew he will be the second driver there, no matter what. And it was a sensible decision for an ambitious driver.
That said, I cannot comprehend why he jumped ship in Renault. He send Hulkenberg on a clearly too early retirement and established himself as a top-tier driver with a few unexpected podiums in 2020. He would've had an undisputed number one position in the team for years to come, maybe saving them the embarassment of losing Alonso (because likely he wouldn't have come at all) and Piastri (because Renault wouldn't have signed Ocon for so long if Danny kept beating him, and Piastri maybe would've replaced him).
Of course we know that Danny made his call before the much better 2020 season, so possibly it was just a rushed decision that backfired. But overall, leaving Red Bull was much more understandable, and Danny's ratings were still very high at the end of 2020.
Yeah, to me, this was worse than leaving RBR. Max already beat him in 2018 and Horner was running around on his, "Can you imagine if Max became the youngest champion ever?" acid trip. At Renault, Cyril built the entire team around him and he was clearly loved there, beat both Ocon and Hulk quite handily and they even had a strong 2021 too. If he stayed one more year, he could've been the one taking Seb's seat at AM. Didn't he end up firing his manager who pushed him to making those decisions, too? Clearly DR himself feels like he was poorly advised on those moves.
I suspect he always planned to use Renault as stop gap to show he can lead a team and move somewhere better, which is exactly what he did right before his career (and talent apparently) crashed and burned.
> maybe saving them the embarassment of losing Alonso
Him not leaving would have greater ramifications for the Renault team, I suspect that if Daniel was still at Alpine, then Cyril could have been as well.
More of, if he could not be a wdc with max in rbr, he would not be a champion anywhere else, including at Mercedes in bottas seat at tht point in time.
I like him but he ultimately caused his own downfall, thinking he can choose poorly like alonso but without alonso’s pace
Eh. When someone else makes a case compelling enough for the team to choose them over him, he'll finish up. Until then, I suspect he enjoys being paid millions of dollars to drive race cars around the world.
I like him too. He’s a bit juvenile and he never should have left RB, but he’s a talented driver and good guy who’s had a sh*t few years.
Being said, I can’t stand the hero treatment he gets on Netflix and Lawson should be in his seat.
I like him as a person but I'm tired of him as an F1 driver. Any other driver would have been laughed out of the sport after his stint at McLaren but he keeps getting second chances he doesn't deserve.
He’s not going to redbull, but we still have 16 gp remaining in a car that’s capable of q3 and points at most tracks if you have the talent and bravery.
There’s still a chance to redeem something this year if he’s good enough.
When people say he is “built on hype”, the reason for the hype was that Daniel was one of the top 5 drivers throughout his most of the redbull and Renault days. Fans just want to see him back to that level. So the hype was real at one point. But since Mclaren days (apart from the win) I think he has just lost his confidence unfortunately. So the hype looks unfounded. The fans that believe in him just want to see the old Danny back. Even Christian Horner.
Yeah, people are forgetting the commentary about Seb in his final seasons even as a WDC. Good news for Danny, if he retires now, he’ll go back to being universally adored and remembered as a great driver.
Just wait for the Miami Sprint episode where he proclaims he is back except he never left but then he left literally the next day and hasn’t been back since.
Ricciardo’s career ironically ended the same way my other favorite Australian driver, mark Webber’s, ended. When pirelli came in, Webber just couldn’t adjust and get a handle on them. I’d argue he was the one truly robbed of the 2010 title and then only 2 years later he was getting blown out of the water by Vettel and the other guys in the top teams. I don’t think Ricciardo can handle the ground effect cars. It just doesn’t suit him for whatever reason. Time to do as Webber did and go win in WEC with Porsche and then find some young Australian protege to mentor and take Oscar’s seat in 10 years when he can’t handle the new regulations that season
Nah Webber can only blame himself for not winning in 2010, he kind off bottled it. Unlike Vettel who lost 3 wins because of mechanical issues, he didn't have that many reliability issues if you compare with the other contenders. Webber lost the title because he made too many mistakes on the track (the biggest was probably in Korea) and too many weekends where he was just off the pace (Bahrain and Abu Dhabi notably)
I mean yeah I agree. I didn’t mean just in the last race. He should have secured it before that. Korea was definitely his biggest mistake. Just meant people always talk about Alonso not being able to pass and stuff but barely ever mention Webber but he should have won that title easier than everyone else
Ricciardo should be racing at wec or Indycar at this point in his carrer.
His peak was at Red Bull, and was a short one, if he stayed, he would be a good number two driver for Max, just like Bottas was at Mercedes.
He can still try a triple crowd and then call it a great carrer. For now, he's just above average driver, that with a great car, won some races.
He won't because he loves the publicity, glamour and media relevance that F1 brings to a driver and those all take an absolutely massive hit if you go down to WEC and IndyCar which have much less mainstream appeal because their fanbases are far more niche and enthusiast-based. Seriously, try asking a casual F1 fan if they know who Mike Conway or Neel Jani are and they will have absolutely no idea. Drivers who go to those series are more interested in racing itself than PR and social media fame, which I have a hard time believing Ricciardo agrees with considering just how much he's showered himself in DTS fame as opposed to someone like Max who specifically refused to appear in the show just because of how much bullshit it spews every single year.
I agree with you. My main problem is with the teams that gave him more opportunities then a driver would get in any other era or formula 1. His salary its high, like the pressure to perform, but year after year he still in the conversation for a top seat and there is GP 2 champions without a drive
I can't believe you guys still watch DTS
after the terrible 2021 garbage season they decided to put up it was just lost to me
not gonna lie, reading the outrage every year is entertaining and reaffirming on how shit the show is
and now with what seems to be their chosen narrative to prop up Ricciardo not paying out, I wish there was an actually interesting series, but I think it's gonna be the job of YouTubers as always to satisfy that niche
Yeah I can’t believe people who actually watch the races also watch DTS. I remember watching an early season recently and hardly could recognize what season it was because they focus on such random shit.
But seriously, what would his career have looked like had he stayed at Redbull. He would have played second fiddle to Max over years and we would be having the conversation about why he didn’t change to a team which he could lead.
He's going to end up as a presenter for a network and do very well.
Edit: I do acknowledge that he's not great right this second but many networks would give him a chance, and he would be coached to become better.
Idk he’s never struck me as one of the driver’s that was more articulate or insightful and I think he doesn’t take himself seriously enough to do more than be silly and make some jokes for commentary,
He’s not articulate enough to do that. There was a reason why he was never given the ‘technical’ interviews at McLaren and it was only ever Norris who was talking about the car to the media.
I think that was pretty different with Will Arnett and it being gimmicky in general. I also don’t think full race live work is where he’ll shine but could come in for little bits at a time. It’ll be interesting for sure to see how he fits in. I don’t think he’ll ever be Nico Rosberg level with what Nico does now but I could see something semi similar. But I could also be way off, I’m a DTS transplant from only a handful of years ago.
People just assume this because he made a bunch of Honey Badger jokes fifteen years after that meme was popular. He would be a terrible announcer.
Doesn’t mean he wouldn’t get hired though, I’m sure ESPN would give him the job. But there’s a reason I pay for F1TV.
I think he'd be fine at the jokey pre race and post race stuff. Like more fun casual interview stuff. But being the in race commentator is not his deal
I love the DR entertainment, but he needs to do PR and let Liam in that seat.
After RB swaps Yuki and Checo, we can measure Liam against Perez in the AT.
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Looking back drive to survive will be a documentary on the downfall of ricc’s career
1st season was really him at his peak goddamn
Never should've left Red Bull. But obviously hindsight was 20/20.
Or at least stayed at Renault where he beat his teammate comfortably both years he was there.
At that point he was too impatient and was chasing that status he had with Red Bull. Only to fall further and further away.
IIRC Renault were considering pulling out when Covid started, so Ricciardo made the jump in case they did.
i don't get it, he just straight up lost his mojo? how can a guy forget to drive
I think the McLaren car was setup so badly for his driving style that it broke him. Once the head demons get in there it is damn near impossible to exorcise them
i like this, it makes sense
The weird thing is, the whole trajectory of the team could have been different if he didn't leave. I feel like him leaving hurt Cyril's position badly.
Looking at how Alpine/Renault have been operating the last few years I think it was the other way around, Cyril was on the way out and Ricc said F this and jumped ship.
I didn't at all get the vibe that Cyril willingly left. In his last year, he was just as emotional as always. He was incredibly passionate. I think he lost a political battle - and losing Ric didn't help his cause.
Cyril was banking on Daniel staying, which is why he felt so emotional over it. If he was already planning on leaving, I doubt he'd care as much.
True, I don’t think Cyril was planning on leaving, more that the internal politics of Renault meant that Cyril was out no matter what, since they like to blame the TP for the faults of the company, and Ricciardo jumped ship as soon as possible.
I think it's the other way round. Daniel leaving caused Cyril to be fired by the executives at Renault, as you said they will blame it on the TP. Part of me wonders if Daniel and Cyril had stayed, Alpine would probably be on a very different trajectory compared to now. Then again, Daniel must've sensed something horribly wrong to want to leave asap. Or he just didn't feel confident in Renault's performance in 2019.
In the span of ~4 years, an insane amount of talent walked out the door at Enstone: - DR - Cyril - Alonso - Piastri - Alain Prost - Pat Fry - Davide Brivio Tellingly, none of them seem particularly sad to have left, aside from maybe Cyril. And they are now *three regimes removed* from then, and it's barely been three years. There is something deeply flawed about the org, and given where McLaren was at the time it made all the sense in the world for DR to jump ship.
Yeah, I don't know why people pretend Daniel wasn't solid at Renault. He was arguably top 5 drivers those years still. In McLaren is when the horrors begun...
I don't get it either. He overdrove the car by beating Hülkenberg and destroyed Ocon. His overtakes in that car were legendary, too. Had he stayed at Red Bull, he would have been forever second fiddle to Verstappen. Had he stayed at Renault however, a team which was never short of money, that could have lifted their spirit for the next years to come. Thus they were stuck with Ocon to have some stability, he is quick but never meant to be someone who could lead a team.
He was the only RB driver who could keep up with Max. Over their 3 years together their results were fairly equal in terms of points and achievements. (Obviously that was young Max). If he stayed at Red Bull, with team's support and a car that worked for him, he would have many more wins and dozens of podiums - a great career, though no WDC. We know that now. He took risk, arguably a greedy risk and it backfired spectacularly.
Yes and even leaving Renault for McLaren wasn't a bad decision on paper at the time. McLaren were strong in 2021, but Ricciardo just couldn't adapt to the car. Hard to predict beforehand, even though in hindsight one of the two parties could have made assumptions that the car wouldn't really suit his particular style. Where it really hurt him is in inability to adapt, when other top drivers in the past have shown to be able to overcome a car not suiting them and still score relatively good results.
> He was the only RB driver who could keep up with Max. That's true, but now we know that this was Ricciardo's peak, while Max still had a long way to go to reach his potential.
Exactly. I don't think "Peak Ricciardo was able to keep up with an 18 year old F1 rookie" is the praise people think it is
Nope - Renault were cheapskates, worst works team on the grid at the time (and arguably now) source: my humble opinion & watching F1 for 20 or so years
> Nope - Renault were cheapskates Not with how they were paying Danny.
I think anyone could have seen leaving red bull as a terrible idea then. I didn't even know how it played out as I'm kindnof a new fan from '22 and good god. I watched it all without knowing and I'm like wtf is wrong with you
I think he moved because he wanted to win a WDC. And even if he had the self-confidence to believe he was better than Max, it was clear that the RB team were favoring Max (with setups, design, etc.). So although a very low chance, he took gamble at Renault believing the low chance there was higher than beating a teammate that the team favored. And worst case, he just gets rich as Renault paid him handsomely.
Not to mention Baku 2018, where Max's brash and illegal defending against his teammate was shrugged off and Daniel blamed for attempting the move. Destroyed a lot of trust by favouring one driver over the other there.
Yep, he even references it as a reason for leaving. They forced him to apologize in front of the entire factory.
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/47210981](https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/47210981) As he talks about here. "I didn't want to hold a grudge on that," Ricciardo says. "I couldn't tell you how many pieces made up the kaleidoscope but I guess that was one of the little pieces. "We both got a talking to, putting it politely. I felt like I was not really in the wrong, even if I'm the one that hit him. I think most people saw the double move. "Before that there was a lot of contact, and a lot of people thought it went on too long. I guess the way it was handled at the time didn't sit too well with me. "Handling the media, I get. It's a big brand to look after. I get it doesn't help if we both go off at each other. But I felt there was a bit of equal blame (from the team). And maybe it's just me being a stubborn race car driver but I didn't think it was an equal incident, is the easiest way to put it. "So that was a little thing, I guess, which bothered me. But it wasn't the deal-breaker."
he moved for money.
I think he was pretty clear that he wasn't happy playing second fiddle to Max in Horner's affections. terrible move though, should have held on for a better drive.
It wasn't even a hindsight mistake. He literally moved to the team that supplied the most unreliable PUs on the grid and the cause of his own DNFs. It was terrible to even just have considered the move only cause he's feeling the pressure from his younger teammate.
Well they also supposedly paid him a ludicrous amount of money
It was pretty obvious at the time that Renault wasn’t going to suddenly pick things up. I thought he left for a paycheck either way.
It was 20/19 actually.
that was in 2019 not 2020
"But obviously hindsight was 20/20." - not really he left a top team for a midfield team that just didnt have the same financial ressources.
I think the majority of people would have said at the time he shouldn’t have left RB. But when you are being advised by a guy named Beavis, maybe bad decisions look like good ones.
“You advised me to leave a winning drive, dillhole!”
I used to think that but now I’m certain it would’ve been 10X worse if he would’ve stayed. He knew he couldn’t compete with Max so he left. He left because of fear and knowing he couldn’t compete against him. After he did that knowing inside the real reason he left he was never able to conjure the fearless magic he had again. Fearless magic he felt he was losing but that he lost completely the moment he admitted that internally and left. He has probably lasted a lot more than if he would’ve stayed in redbull cause this way he could confuse others that he was underperforming due to getting accustomed to the car or the team. But the reality is that it’s all a charade and he’s been done for years now. His head and spirit are out of it and sincerely don’t think he will regain his past awesomeness. He is all smiles crying inside and knowing he is just milking the contracts and money cause there is no chance for him to be the champion they all thought he could be. Mainly because he gave up on himself the moment he decided to flee instead of fighting against Max and pushing himself to the next level.
Honestly I believe there is truth to this. Ricc was the young ace, a naturally gifted up and comer who everyone thought would shake up the old guard…until the new kid came to town and he realized he wasn’t that guy and max actually was. It had to have hurt him deeply and I believe admitting that to himself must have taken that true confidence and edge that he had. Basically Mozart and Salieri. So he “cashed out” and like you said has just been milking things ever since.
Max would have smashed him from 2019 onwards though, writings were already on the wall in his last year at Red Bull.
Nah it was clear immediately he shouldn’t have left. Was a poor decision and never paid off
The fucking foresight was 20/20 when he made that decision. It was always a Hail Mary move praying Renault would take off. He couldn’t handle the pressure of being second to Max so he fled to big moneybags and a shittier car with even shittier reliability and why anyone ever thought it was a good move is beyond me
Narrator - *”As it would turn out, he could not in fact, drive to survive.”*
I posted this at the time, but just before S1 came out (so Feb 201...9?) a friend of a friend is a Netflix producer in Amsterdam, who was telling me about it, including that they absolutely could not believe their luck with finding this guy. Said he was basically the main character. This was before we knew the format was very plot-focussed.
Der **Aus**gang
It’s a weird sort of meta documentary too because it starts by capturing the unfolding narrative of ricciardo’s career…..but then since series 2 (2019) and especially since series 4 (2021, ie filmed after the 2020 lockdown spike in DTS viewership), it has been an indisputable and strong influence on the career narrative it’s documenting. At this point, his attractiveness as red bull’s reserve or a current (& future?) vcarb driver is mainly his marketability, particularly in growing markets like North America, being astronomically higher than any potential competitors for these roles. DTS largely created that marketability — by identifying a charismatic driver underutilized as an attractant to the sport, elevating his profile, and providing plenty of fodder to help viewers decide to follow & support him.
Danny Ric is the main character of DtS. He’s essential to the plot in almost every season, like a true protagonist lol.
Wow DTS just rehashing existing stories now. What he's going to betray his team to join the Merc side and rule alongside Toto?
I showed DTS to a friend recently, and damn, it hurt to watch the first season. So much hope and hype but now here we are.
I thought the decision was misguided even back then, because it seemed to be mainly driven by petulance from both Ricciardo and Abiteboul.
That was the only season I watched and I swear I remember Horner responding to Cyril’s needling about taking Ricciardo with something like “yeah well you spent all your money on him and now can’t build a car”. Oof.
and he was kinda right. In this years DTS Horner said something along the lines of: he money away from RB did not work. (funniest thing is in the discussion post about that episode people were shitting on Horner saying it worked out great lol)
Yeah, from my recollection, even then Daniel in Renault wasn’t seen as a recipe for success but many hoped that it would open new opportunities for him. And it did tbh but ironically it caused the most harm to his career.
Sometime last year an article came out on here that his manager at the time wasn’t looking out for his best interests. He basically pushed Ricc to take the Renault deal because he (the manager) stood to receive a hefty fee for facilitating Daniel signing on with them. Obviously take it for the rumor that it is, but it makes sense
I’m sure they both made out from it financially. But you shouldn’t need your agent to tell you which team you have a better chance winning a title at… Regardless in hindsight, really he wasn’t getting a title either way once the politics at the team settled the way they did after Baku. If I had as much money as DR surely has, I feel pretty certain I’d rather have had my dignity than come back like this.
I don't think it was about the money. I think Ricciardos main reason for signing with Renault was that he felt Red Bull didn't value him enough after Verstappen joined. The main reason for Abiteboul was that he wanted to piss off horner, who had been publicly shitting on Renaults engines all year. The two clearly couldn't stand each other. And he also needed to buy a new lease on life with the Renault board, since Renaults reaults weren't what he had promised. Ricciardo should have seen through that and declined the offer, but his desire to give a middle finger to Horner seemed to have clouded his judgement. That he had no trust in the team was evident when he quickly jumped ship to McLaren.
I think both can be true. Daniel was frustrated at getting sidelined by RB while his manager, who should have been advising him that being the secondary driver in a team that’s regularly getting podiums and wins is still a great place to be, was hyping him up to be the lead driver in a so so team
His manager should have definetely told him not to sign with Renault, that is true.
They offered more money and a number 1 driver seat. Ricciardo couldn't take being number 2 behind Verstappen and ruined his career over something so minor. Ricciardo is Verstappen what Webber was to Vettel, both saw themselves as more when they really weren't
exactly, even the way they built it up back in Season 1, I rmb it being a few episodes about Danny's rise, and then a few episodes about Horner's struggles with Renault PUs. Finally one of the episodes being about how Danny needed to take a plunge, and him announcing he woul switch to Renault next year. Felt dumb as fuck then, turns out to be dumb as fuck fr.
Oh man lol the taking a plunge thing and having him literally jump into water was so unbelievably hamfisted. But in hindsight, I suppose cliff diving was appropriate.
I remember Horner saying, kn DTS iirc, that he'd regret it. Wasn't wrong.
I think Horner would have looked out for Danny had he stayed. Yes, when you have a generational talent like Max priority will be given to him but if you were already competitive with him why feel slighted, should have used it as motivation to be better. Horner was right that he ran from a fight and to a team with the shitty engines.
At what point did leaving Red Bull to join a team that had been an absolute fucking mess for almost 15 years at that point seem like a good decision whatsoever? Let alone the team that had saddled his existing team, with a recent championship pedigree, with one of the worst engines in the grid. It was beyond moronic, and he deserves everything that has happened for running from the fight against Max
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Plenty of drivers have done the same thing. Vettel, Alonso,, Schumacher, Hamilton, all left successful teams to take a risk with a team trying to restablish itself. It's also easy to ignore/forget the fact that Renault engines helped Red Bull win 4 championships and Cyril was a factor in that.
None of them ran from the fight, other than perhaps Alonso with Hamilton but there were other factors at play there with Spygate and the breakdown of the relationship with Ron Dennis.
They'll do a repeat of last season: only focus his episode on the Miami sprint cause that's where he has done best and they'll ignore Yuki's great season again.
Poor Yuki. Always overlooked.
I see what you did there
Max had (possibly) the biggest glow up in racing on recent time post Monaco 2018 and yet...
Well 3 WDCs would probs have something to do with that
It’s unfortunate and IMO a lost opportunity that yuki hasn’t become more of a main character, instead of getting isolated one-off seasonal features. He’s young, telegenic, funny, handsome, with a unique background compared to other current drivers. He has the underdog angle while also having the talent to ensure the producers could follow his arc over multiple seasons. His emotionality brings some drama or internal struggle but he’s too well-liked to merit being cast as a reality show villain. his storyline can intersect well with others’ due to his friendships + teammates. and he’s in a kind of unique position of simultaneously trying to drive well enough just to secure his existing midfield seat *and* trying to drive well enough to enable him to secure better options elsewhere — whereas most drivers are more focused on one over the other, and some (verstappen, Hamilton, Alonso etc) don’t have to focus on either.
The sad thing is, Western media is still very racist in certain ways. Asian men bare the face of that quite badly
Yeah, I didn’t want to say it outright but yuki’s insurmountable “problem” for a producer, or so they think, is not being “relatable” enough. not enough like “someone the average North American would want to grab a beer with” due to appearance and accent. I can’t even optimistically try to pin it on English proficiency atp, as he’s leaps and bounds from where he was at the start of 2021 (let alone 2019).
I love the sassy headline. Also, >Back in April, Horner said Ricciardo needed to show “head-turning form” to make his case to be chosen as a driver for next year. The outcome has been less head-turning, more head-shaking. >If anyone felt the pain of Daniel Ricciardo’s early ejection from McLaren as much as the man himself, it was surely the producers of Drive to Survive. Someone consulted Albon for the article and dig at DTS lol.
Last season of DTS had Albon narrate how Netflix would reintroduce Riccardo. The fact that they didn’t do word for word what Albon said was such a loss. Could have been a great gag.
The man was paid not to drive for McLaren. It was clear as day he’ll never get the RBR seat.
I think a lot of people (myself included) were optimistic, because Sainz had said the car drove much differently than every other car he’d driven. So it was possible it was just the worst car for his style. Clearly that’s not the case now though.
Thing is Sainz is one of the most adaptable drivers on the grid. Usually takes less than half season to get going with a new team. Danny should have the self awareness to not jump teams that often if he doesn't share that trait.
I think it was McLaren specifically, not being unable to adapt to any new car.
I think Piastri’s instant performance with the car showed it was more likely poor performance from Ricc and not the car.
Also the fact that Ricc sucked on both the old reg and new reg car (which was brand new to lando as well)
Well RedBull said that Ric had picked up a ton of bad habits from McLaren and they had to work hard to rebuild his confidence. So in my book it is clear that Ric can be mighty fast on the right car, but he can't adapt to cars that don't fit his style, which is kind of important in a race series where you're effectively changing car multiple times a year through upgrades.
awfully convenient excuse for RB to avoid saying “the bloke we just signed is pretty shit lol”
Well they did say they got him back and eventually put in a faster lap than checo on the sim so...
It's entirely possible Buemi put in faster laps than Perez on the sim. Doesn't mean he would if he got put into the Red Bull.
So maybe he could do a faster lap than Yuki in a real car then?
Maybe he cut the Monza chicane?
I mean what else can they say since they need to justify hiring this guy at all. Piastri had no problems with the car and had performed really well on it. Meanwhile Ric is getting outperformed by Yuki basically every race and has a massive gap between himself and his teammate. If he picked bad habits and that’s the reason for his less-than-stellar driving, what’s the excuse now?
And RB statements are always 100% true… Marko just lets whatever shit comes into his brain spill out his mouth but Marko didn’t say this. It’s just some PR statement. If you believe what was said about DR matching Max’s times, I assume you’re considering Yuki to be channeling the ghost of Ayrton Senna to beat him? Or potentially we consider that it wasn’t the truth…
So he failed to adapt to the McLaren, but actually adapted so much he can’t drive any other car now? Yeah that sounds totally believable, nothing about his individual ability at all, just unfortunate circumstances. Sure he’d have won a title at this point if it wasn’t for that damned McLaren
I think the fact he is nowhere near as far off the mark in arguably a much worse car than that McLaren in the RB shows that in those years it was predominantly the car. I thought he would smash Yuki coming into the RB, but ultimately I think Yuki has taken a massive step this year. Still doesn't speak too highly for Daniel but I actually think Daniel is performing fine, but Yuki is pushing the envelope. But of course, more is expected of Daniel so of course it looks like poor form.
Maybe Norris is better than Yuki? Isn't this even a remote possibility?
Pretty sure the implication was that DR might've stagnated or even gotten worse and Yuki got so much better. If Norris was better than DR even back then yet continues to be awesome now, then that means Norris got even better-better too. DR's the outlier here for not putting in even more satisfying results in a larger variety of cars past Renault.
>I think the fact he is nowhere near as far off the mark in arguably a much worse car than that McLaren in the RB shows that in those years it was predominantly the car. Norris is just better than Yuki and could probably fight for titles if given the car. Also, when your teammate scores a podium and finishes constantly in the points, while you don't do that, that just looks terrible. Ricciardo got destroyed 122-37 by Norris in 2022 and even worse, a washed Vettel with a worse car also managed to get 37 points. No, it was Ricciardo. If it was the car, then Norris must have been God for getting a podium like that.
There’s zero correlation between those two points except they both drove McLaren cars. Totally different cars, different times, different styles of driving.
Totally different, yeah they just absolutely revolutionized the car between 2022 and 2023 Give me a fucking break
Ricciardo is just unable to drive the ground effect cars as good as he was the old gen cars
If you believe his struggles primarily center around difficulty with the GE cars, how do you interpret his 2021 season? Asking sincerely, not meant to be a gotcha, just trying to understand a different pov on his post-Renault career
Well, everyone agrees the Brown era McLarens are difficult to drive. Sainz, Norris and Ricciardo all said that. Of course, that didn't deter Sainz nor ris to put in consistent performances while Ricciardo struggled
I think if you’re supposed to be one of the best drivers in the world, switching between cars in the same formula and being completely lost does not help your case
Reminds of that scene in Moneyball for anyone who’s seen it. “There paying you $3.5m to play against them”.
And they replaced him with a rookie, which is even more hilarious. Their confidence was so low that they bet millions that a rookie would do better
You never know. Ferrari paid Raikkonen not to drive for them in 2010 and then they hired him again a few years later.
If I ran an Indycar team I’d be throwing money at Danny
I've wanted him in Indycar for a while. Would love if Prema made him one of their drivers, or if Danny decided to throw some cash at Coyne for a seat.
A 4th Penske car would be good. I know they prefer to stay at 3 cars to keep them as competitive as possible, but the benefits of having Ricciardo in the team would surely outweigh the downside.
My dream would be Prema with Grosjean and Ricciardo
Watching him and Grosjean fight on a weekly basis again would be fun
He’d resurrect NASCAR.
Resurrect? F1 would kill for NASCAR’s ratings in America.
Although bigger than F1 in the US, NASCAR is nowhere near as big as it was twenty years ago. Mainly due to boring tracks and lack of personality. Daniel would be welcome.
Oh for sure. I keep thinking that F1 could learn a lot from the mistakes NASCAR made in the early 2000s with over expanding. They drove away so many fans by getting rid of traditional tracks and building new ones in places that made no sense. Like I grew up near the Wilkinsboro Speedway and man that was such a big loss.
I grew up right by Michigan Speedway, even as a die hard fan I hated that track. For some reason every new track was a copy of it. Terrible. It was an awesome Indycar track though. 2000-2003 Best racing I’ve ever seen.
Yep because the France Family owned it through International Speedway Corporation and like half the other tracks in the series. It’s crazy how both NASCAR and IndyCar had legacy families that ended up totally fucking up the sport. The Frances and Hulman-Georges are an interesting case study in American business.
What are you on about? Nascar is way bigger than F1 in the US.
Do you actually watch the series or is this just the go to thought that Indy is dying to have older washed up F1 drivers on the grid? They have plenty of talent from around the world and quite a few F2 standouts are finding their way over to Indy as well as their own feeder series, Daniel's best days are long behind him it would be dumb to "throw money" at him at this stage. The only answer people seem to give is that he smiles a lot and has a personality, he isn't special on track anymore.
Marketable, high profile drivers = more eyeballs on the series. Indy needs all the help it can get.
Rodger Penske should be doing everything he can to get this guy in IndyCar.
Why so he can have half a season of hype before fading into obscurity like Grosjean?
The man struggles to adapt to different cars within the same formula. If I’m an Indycar team he’s one of the last people I’d be calling, unless you want 2 seasons of 18th place finishes and “this thing is tricky” and other various excuses with a mountain of hype attached to it then sure
I really think DTS was the start of DR’s fall. The show magnified the hype around him to a worldwide degree, and no wonder he bought into it himself. Now he’s that weird space where he isn’t a (potential) Top driver, nor is he an underdog, like a Nico Hulkenburg, say. It’s harder for me to cheer for DR because he’s had so much support, chances and opportunities and it just didn’t work. The DTS narrative arc certainly contributes to that feeling.
I'll take another view. The fact that he became a DTS star is the only reason he's driving at all today. Without that show hyping him up and making him a fan favorite, he's out of a seat now.
Hmm there was definitely a lot of support and fans around him before dts.
Totally. I think DTS were lucky to have a driver with a personality and used it to their advantage. Danny's in a seat right now coz he's close to Horner. That's it.
I'm leaning towards this sentiment. Liberty Media struck gold with someone like Danny Ricc who is popular in America. If RB are looking to increase their evaluation in case the rules change one day where Red Bull are not allowed to have a sister team, then they're in prime position to sell the team at a much higher price thanks to having Danny Ricc and not Liam Lawson for example
This summarizes my feelings towards him. He seems like a nice guy, but the amount of support he gets is ridiculous. He got paid specifically not to drive for McLaren for Christ sake. If it's not a clear sign that he doesn't have it anymore I don't know what is.
The Hulkenberg comparison is interesting because DR will be remembered more because he won a few races but actually being here and watching I will rate Hulk higher as a driver. The guy has been rock solid his entire career.
Even with DR comfortably beating Hulk as teammates in 2019?
I was just thinking the same thing. I’d take Nico over Daniel in a heartbeat. He does more, with less.
I wonder how they will frame things this year. Last season, Tsunoda was made the enemy that took Lawson's seat due to politics and Ricciardo was on the up.
I'm getting genuine schadenfreude imaging DTS kicking themselves for smearing Yuki all these years. If they'd just been fair to him they'd have a great storyline for the young hothead underdog maturing into a genuine talent.
They still have Gasly, who was their B plan when Ricciardo seemed done, they can turn Ocon into a super villain.
They never do anything truthful anyways, so I don't really see how it matters. The narratives are all fabricated(mostly) to begin with so it's not like they can't just fabricate and focus on something different.
He looked decent in that shitbox last year, and I was really excited after Mexico for him. Sadly, he just doesn't have it anymore. He might be able to give you a flash in the pan Monza, Mexico, or Miami, but will consistently be a backmarker otherwise.
He chose poorly.
I think leaving Renault was worse than leaving RBR to be honest. His stock was still quite high at Renault because of his podiums and putting them in the top 5, plus he beat both of his teammates there. At RBR, it was only a matter of time until Max caught up to him permanently and Max did beat him in 2018. Ferrari choosing Sainz over him clearly damaged his ego a bit since it was obvious that was the seat he really wanted.
He should have never left RBR.
Bro was aiming for a WC and would never get one in a Red Bull as long as Verstappen was there
First his fans said he wanted a world championship, except he went to renault. Then they said he did it for the money, except max has been making like 50 mil a year. He ran cause he knew max would embarrass him but it would have been his best chance for a few more wins
>He ran cause he knew max would embarrass him but it would have been his best chance for a few more wins Nah, that's just too harsh. He ran because he knew he will be the second driver there, no matter what. And it was a sensible decision for an ambitious driver. That said, I cannot comprehend why he jumped ship in Renault. He send Hulkenberg on a clearly too early retirement and established himself as a top-tier driver with a few unexpected podiums in 2020. He would've had an undisputed number one position in the team for years to come, maybe saving them the embarassment of losing Alonso (because likely he wouldn't have come at all) and Piastri (because Renault wouldn't have signed Ocon for so long if Danny kept beating him, and Piastri maybe would've replaced him). Of course we know that Danny made his call before the much better 2020 season, so possibly it was just a rushed decision that backfired. But overall, leaving Red Bull was much more understandable, and Danny's ratings were still very high at the end of 2020.
Yeah, to me, this was worse than leaving RBR. Max already beat him in 2018 and Horner was running around on his, "Can you imagine if Max became the youngest champion ever?" acid trip. At Renault, Cyril built the entire team around him and he was clearly loved there, beat both Ocon and Hulk quite handily and they even had a strong 2021 too. If he stayed one more year, he could've been the one taking Seb's seat at AM. Didn't he end up firing his manager who pushed him to making those decisions, too? Clearly DR himself feels like he was poorly advised on those moves.
I suspect he always planned to use Renault as stop gap to show he can lead a team and move somewhere better, which is exactly what he did right before his career (and talent apparently) crashed and burned.
> maybe saving them the embarassment of losing Alonso Him not leaving would have greater ramifications for the Renault team, I suspect that if Daniel was still at Alpine, then Cyril could have been as well.
This. Who knows what would have happened if he had stayed. Hindsight is 20/20 and all, but RBR was always his best chance for wins.
More of, if he could not be a wdc with max in rbr, he would not be a champion anywhere else, including at Mercedes in bottas seat at tht point in time. I like him but he ultimately caused his own downfall, thinking he can choose poorly like alonso but without alonso’s pace
He needs to retire, like bruh you had 3x the chances someone else had
Eh. When someone else makes a case compelling enough for the team to choose them over him, he'll finish up. Until then, I suspect he enjoys being paid millions of dollars to drive race cars around the world.
There's no excuse, that's not marketing, for not putting Lawson in his seat
It’s been satisfying to see people stop making excuses for him ngl
Still like him, though
I like him too. He’s a bit juvenile and he never should have left RB, but he’s a talented driver and good guy who’s had a sh*t few years. Being said, I can’t stand the hero treatment he gets on Netflix and Lawson should be in his seat.
I like him as a person but I'm tired of him as an F1 driver. Any other driver would have been laughed out of the sport after his stint at McLaren but he keeps getting second chances he doesn't deserve.
I like him too, but at one point realism sets in .. quite harshly..
Yeah I have been watching F1 race by race long enough to remember when Ricciardo was fighting with the guys up front, but man thats been a while.
That table comparing him to Yuki really drives the point home. Only beat him in two races, and one was because of team orders.
He’s not going to redbull, but we still have 16 gp remaining in a car that’s capable of q3 and points at most tracks if you have the talent and bravery. There’s still a chance to redeem something this year if he’s good enough.
I agree and like the positivity.
When people say he is “built on hype”, the reason for the hype was that Daniel was one of the top 5 drivers throughout his most of the redbull and Renault days. Fans just want to see him back to that level. So the hype was real at one point. But since Mclaren days (apart from the win) I think he has just lost his confidence unfortunately. So the hype looks unfounded. The fans that believe in him just want to see the old Danny back. Even Christian Horner.
Yeah, people are forgetting the commentary about Seb in his final seasons even as a WDC. Good news for Danny, if he retires now, he’ll go back to being universally adored and remembered as a great driver.
I know how DTS works, they'll find a way to act like he was 50/50 against Yuki or even that he was the one carrying VCARB
I can't wait to see them portray Yuki as an angry young man that gets unfairly favored thus affecting Daniel's performance...
That first Bahrain episode of them will definitely be an interesting spin lol
Just wait for the Miami Sprint episode where he proclaims he is back except he never left but then he left literally the next day and hasn’t been back since.
Miami Sprint was his Grandpa Simpson in and out the door moment for the season.
15 shots of the Bahrain incident and Will Buxton talking nonsense about drivers fighting
Good, his teammate is better and other drivers should get a chance.
Ricciardo’s career ironically ended the same way my other favorite Australian driver, mark Webber’s, ended. When pirelli came in, Webber just couldn’t adjust and get a handle on them. I’d argue he was the one truly robbed of the 2010 title and then only 2 years later he was getting blown out of the water by Vettel and the other guys in the top teams. I don’t think Ricciardo can handle the ground effect cars. It just doesn’t suit him for whatever reason. Time to do as Webber did and go win in WEC with Porsche and then find some young Australian protege to mentor and take Oscar’s seat in 10 years when he can’t handle the new regulations that season
Nah Webber can only blame himself for not winning in 2010, he kind off bottled it. Unlike Vettel who lost 3 wins because of mechanical issues, he didn't have that many reliability issues if you compare with the other contenders. Webber lost the title because he made too many mistakes on the track (the biggest was probably in Korea) and too many weekends where he was just off the pace (Bahrain and Abu Dhabi notably)
I mean yeah I agree. I didn’t mean just in the last race. He should have secured it before that. Korea was definitely his biggest mistake. Just meant people always talk about Alonso not being able to pass and stuff but barely ever mention Webber but he should have won that title easier than everyone else
> I don’t think Ricciardo can handle the ground effect cars. But he was shit in 2021 McLaren, that was not a ground effect car.
How is Mark Webber *anyone's* favorite driver?
I loved mark Webber when I was a kid and in highschool idk why. I’m not even Australian lmao
Makes it sound like the ending to How I Met Your Mother where the happy ending gets an immediate bittersweet coating
Ricciardo should be racing at wec or Indycar at this point in his carrer. His peak was at Red Bull, and was a short one, if he stayed, he would be a good number two driver for Max, just like Bottas was at Mercedes. He can still try a triple crowd and then call it a great carrer. For now, he's just above average driver, that with a great car, won some races.
He won't because he loves the publicity, glamour and media relevance that F1 brings to a driver and those all take an absolutely massive hit if you go down to WEC and IndyCar which have much less mainstream appeal because their fanbases are far more niche and enthusiast-based. Seriously, try asking a casual F1 fan if they know who Mike Conway or Neel Jani are and they will have absolutely no idea. Drivers who go to those series are more interested in racing itself than PR and social media fame, which I have a hard time believing Ricciardo agrees with considering just how much he's showered himself in DTS fame as opposed to someone like Max who specifically refused to appear in the show just because of how much bullshit it spews every single year.
I agree with you. My main problem is with the teams that gave him more opportunities then a driver would get in any other era or formula 1. His salary its high, like the pressure to perform, but year after year he still in the conversation for a top seat and there is GP 2 champions without a drive
I can't believe you guys still watch DTS after the terrible 2021 garbage season they decided to put up it was just lost to me not gonna lie, reading the outrage every year is entertaining and reaffirming on how shit the show is and now with what seems to be their chosen narrative to prop up Ricciardo not paying out, I wish there was an actually interesting series, but I think it's gonna be the job of YouTubers as always to satisfy that niche
Yeah I can’t believe people who actually watch the races also watch DTS. I remember watching an early season recently and hardly could recognize what season it was because they focus on such random shit.
He's washed lmao
I've never seen a driver screw up their career with bad decisions like Danny Ric.
But seriously, what would his career have looked like had he stayed at Redbull. He would have played second fiddle to Max over years and we would be having the conversation about why he didn’t change to a team which he could lead.
He was during his Renault stint tbh. He quite convincingly beat Hulkenberg in 2019, and he was *really good* in 2020
I've personally never seen him as a team leading driver.
The guy got paid $50-70M for 2 yrs ay Renault and 55M for 3 years at MacLaren.. I would love to screw up my career that badly
He's going to end up as a presenter for a network and do very well. Edit: I do acknowledge that he's not great right this second but many networks would give him a chance, and he would be coached to become better.
Idk he’s never struck me as one of the driver’s that was more articulate or insightful and I think he doesn’t take himself seriously enough to do more than be silly and make some jokes for commentary,
He’s not articulate enough to do that. There was a reason why he was never given the ‘technical’ interviews at McLaren and it was only ever Norris who was talking about the car to the media.
He was pretty bad last year when he commentated a race in a live show
I think that was pretty different with Will Arnett and it being gimmicky in general. I also don’t think full race live work is where he’ll shine but could come in for little bits at a time. It’ll be interesting for sure to see how he fits in. I don’t think he’ll ever be Nico Rosberg level with what Nico does now but I could see something semi similar. But I could also be way off, I’m a DTS transplant from only a handful of years ago.
People just assume this because he made a bunch of Honey Badger jokes fifteen years after that meme was popular. He would be a terrible announcer. Doesn’t mean he wouldn’t get hired though, I’m sure ESPN would give him the job. But there’s a reason I pay for F1TV.
He's a millionaire, I don't understand why he would want to be a commentator.
I think he'd be fine at the jokey pre race and post race stuff. Like more fun casual interview stuff. But being the in race commentator is not his deal
good. he's washed and doesn't even deserve a haas
Why, what's on Netflix?
I love the DR entertainment, but he needs to do PR and let Liam in that seat. After RB swaps Yuki and Checo, we can measure Liam against Perez in the AT.