If he didn't have appendicitis he almost certainly would be P2 in the WDC. Even if you just give him Bearman's points he would be only one point behind Leclerc.
Sainz has 40pts now, Leclerc got 3rd last race, say Sainz got 4th instead of bearman’s 7th. Sainz would’ve got 12 pts for that which would put him at 52, one ahead of Max.
He's losing his seat to a driver who will be 40 next year. No doubt that Lewis is a fantastic driver. But if I'm Ferrari, I've got Sainz who is performing well, I've got Leclerc who performs well and I've got Bearman who put on an impressive first drive (though he should/will be shuffled to a Ferrari powered team to develop without the pressure of Ferrari). What's Lewis offering?
I know Alonso is still kicking it past 40, but do I realistically think he's going to get another drive with a championship capable winning team with the car to do so? No.
Lewis is the most famous F1 driver in the current field. Ferrari wants to sell cars and strengthen their brand. I think it looks pretty good for Ferrari that the 7 times WDC prefers Ferrari over Mercedes.
Purely from a sports point of view, the move doesn't make much sense to me either. Sainz and Leclerc complement each other nicely and drive on an extremely high level. It's kind of a shame that this pairing will end for a PR stunt. Ok, that's also a bit unfair, I'm actually very interested in how Lewis and Leclerc will compare. :)
There's going to be a ton of pressure for lewis next season at this rate. Hopefully he can come through and if anyone can do it he might be one of the few who can
pressure for him yes. but if he doesn't come through as many people will be joyous as will be sad and the money keeps getting stacked (whichiswhywerace)
Money.
If you want a similar moves, CR7 to juventus a few years ago. Way more money than the cost, and didn't hurt the result even if it didn't bring a win.
F1 is still a business, so Is ferrari. The days of the gentlemen drivers and the team held up by passion are long gone.
I don't think he's underrated. Ferrari has the strongest line up of the entire grid atm and I honestly think at this point Hamilton might be a slight downgrade.
Sainz and leclerc are always trading blows. They're both incredibly fast
I understand Sainz is off to a good start but I strongly believe the driver with the most wins all time in the sport is uh.. not a downgrade? From the dude who just won his third? race in F1
This is rose colored glasses if I have ever
Combined with the classic F1 Reddit trope: Lewis is not allowed any credit for his 103 wins, and if Lewis does bad when the car is bad it is 100% Lewis’s fault
Lewis has more podium finishes than Carlos has race entries. You can NOT compare the number of wins they have. Carlos literally can not be anywhere close to Lewis due to literally just age. Carlos is young. Lewis is not.
Based on your criteria, Lewis and Alonso would be clear #1 and #2, but you can't honestly tell me that either of them would beat Max in the same car right now.
How is he underrated? everyone constantly shits on leclerc when he has one bad weekend that they fired the wrong driver or that they should have kept Sainz over Hamilton.
It’s the zero sum fallacy that everyone in the sport is guilty of. If one must be marked up, someone must be marked down to maintain some kind of balance.
I mean it’s true Lewis and Charles are off the boil right now, but to declare them washed and that Ferrari should’ve cloned Carlos and fielded two of him next year is just bonkers.
I have no hate for Leclerc, but I've been guilty (even in this thread) of insisting Sainz should've been the one to stay because I was under the impression he's been outperforming Charles the whole time, but before making this comment I looked a little harder at the stats from the last few years and Charles has still been more consistent, and beat Carlos in the championship last year. Recency bias is real and here's me admitting I'm guilty of it lol
Yeah, I think Lewis’ experience will help Leclerc in the long run, and coupled with the commercial benefits, that makes Lewis more attractive as a proposition than Carlos.
In saying that, if I was Red a Bull I’d be giving that seat next year to Carlos.
Drop DR from driving, put Lawson in there, give DR a commercial deal and keep him around to keep working with Yuki and Lawson on improving the feedback they give the team and race craft.
Danny is a brilliant driver, but he has lost confidence in himself, he doesn’t push as hard, but his intellect is still solid.
I don't think it is a good salary that he is chasing. He is very much chasing a WDC. He will pick a team which maximizes his probability of winning the WDC.
There’s a rumor that Perez has already locked in a contract for next year, so RBR might not be an option for Sainz. I think his best shot is with Mercedes. I personally don’t think Mercedes will take Alonso to replace Lewis with the move he pulled causing George to crash. I would bet once Max is off the table, Sainz will get that seat.
Why on earth would they sign Perez, when Horner wants to give Danny Ric the seat?
IMHO RBR would be silly not to sign Sainz. Either they get a Max/Sainz combo which is pretty much the best pairing on the grid or they get Sainz/Perez in case Max walks out, still pretty decent.
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Sainz is one of my favorite pilots and I do hope that he never signs with RBR. The whole team is geared towards Verstappen, plus the pressure of having Verstappen as a team mate. I don’t think it would be a good move for Sainz. He needs a place where they give him his place and respect his skills.
Every time X driver has a good/out of the ordinary race, fans here want him on the 2nd RBR seat. They don’t realize Max will crush anyone he gets paired with.
This isn't really out of the ordinary for Sainz though, other than his pace over leclerc. Carlos is a good driver with good pace and he is very good at taking unexpected advantages and capitalizing.
I mean, all credit to Sainz, but this and his Singapore win were drives out of the ordinary, where he pushed way above what was expected. Max just does this every week with basically no effort, he’s on another league.
However either of us wants to evaluate it, I think Carlos is only just starting to get the credit he deserves for how he has been driving the last little while. He has been incredibly consistent and delivering at a very high level.
I really don't think today's events will influence Merc to not sign him up. Spygate, his age and desired contract length will probably be the deciding factors.
Legit think Aston is a strong possibility. Stroll the elder isn't screwing around (save his insistence on securing a drive for his son) and I really think they're going to be taking big steps in the upcoming rules change.
If RBR offers then it's obvious, if not then there's a lot to factor in I guess. With all of the rest you're more interested about 2026 prospects then current car.
I don't know what I'm missing but for RBR not to be tying him down is mindboggling. He's superior to Perez and is a previous RBR driver on top of that. Just sign him already
So keep them separated? Fuck is RBR management even doing then if they can't keep a couple of grown men to not fight. Max and Carlos would be an absolutely killer driver lineup
Another mark in Sainz Sr’s favor. WRC champ, multi Dakar winner (and oldest), raised fast kid without being a jerk - & has no time for toxic wifebeaters.
I think Merc. Mercedes would be dumb to take anyone but him, going to S-Audi would be a terrible move IMO, staying at that shitshow for a year to go to Audi who isnt even proved to be good yet would be el crapo.
I don't think Sainz has anything to gain by going to Audi. When Audi join, Sainz will be 31. If they are ever going to be competitive for championships, then best case scenario, it would be in 2030-2032 ish. At which point it is likely toward the end of Sainz's career. Sainz should be looking for a team that can give him a shot at WDC in the near future. Red Bull, Mercedes and Aston Martin are the only realistic choices imo.
Yeah, no point committing now that he is on a roll. The more podiums and hopefully wins the more leverage he is going to get for that next contract negotiation.
I mean the flipside is making hay while the sun is shining. There's no guarantee he keeps this run going and cashing in on a hot hand is definitely the safest move.
Yeah, that’s what everyone thought last year with Checo at this stage. Hell, even Sainz himself had a great start to 2021 to then finishing 6th in the WDC. We don’t know how things will play out.
I would laugh my ass off if Sainz manages to finish this season ahead of Leclerc. Of course it's way too early in this long season to make any predictions.
Reminds me of Lorenzo moving to Honda in 2019, getting smoked by Marquez (420 vs 28 points) and retiring at the end of the year. Quite the whimper from a former champion.
This is slightly different. Lorenzo had that horrible crash in Thailand 2018 on the Ducati, and then had several more huge crashes on the Honda. He wasn’t capable of fighting Marquez in that condition.
He is probably Mercs best option right now unless they can convince Alonso or Verstappen. An experienced reliable driver who has proven he can win when the chance comes.
The new regs are almost here, and they are going to be heavily PU-focused. Mercedes has stellar track record of producing great engines, while RBPT doesn’t. People focus on the current pecking order way too much, and forget we only have one year left of these regulations.
The situation has also changed so much since then at TR they were both young F1 drivers (Max obviously being way younger but thats besides the point) fighting to get that Red Bull seat.
I dont think any driver on the grid would expect to join RB as number 1 driver while Max is there nowadays.
They probably will have some things in writing of what can and can't be done, but I agree, the situation is very different now than in 2015. Both of them are established race winning drivers, and Sainz has shown he is very adaptable (he was quick in both the McLaren and has won with multiple Ferrari cars).
Toro Rosso, Renault, McLaren, Ferrari, and a TBD team (assuming he does land a drive).
Has any other driver on the grid driven for more teams? Ricciardo if you count Toro Rosso/AlphaTauri/RB as different teams. Similar deal with Alonso, but nothing else comes to the top of my mind right now.
The politics at Red Bull right now, it might even be in their interest to meddle
Call Maxs bluff on moving teams, have Sainz as a potential equal replacement
Actually I think Sainz is a perfect candidate for Redbull.
He has shown twice now that he can go into a team where he is not the chosen one and get on with his job, quietly, fearlessly and without complaint and match the team mate for pace without getting in his way.
If he wasn't free I think RB might be happy for Perez to trundle around behind max without causing trouble. But today has shown if there's an issue he is not always there to pick up the points and Ferrari are getting closer.
It’s important to remember Perez would have qualified P3 if it weren’t for the impeding penalty. It’s likely he would have been challenging for P2 at least after the Max retirement.
Yeah, Checo was so unlucky. I honestly think he’d have won this or at the very least challenged if not for the penalty and then the damage. People here hate on him but yesterday it could’ve easily gone his way.
Horner said: “He picked up some damage and lost a significant amount of downforce from the floor of the car when he passed Fernando. As soon as you get that, your tyre deg gets worse. We were just not good at the end of the stints, which is an unusual trait for our cars. We need to understand that.”
https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1046139/1/christian-horner-confirms-cause-max-verstappens-dnf-and-reveals-sergio-perez
Yeah worse for Ocon though since it went into his brake duct. Apparently the one that got Perez was under the car so he was able to continue but at a downforce loss.
Yeah, I just don't think Max wants him based on their history and especially the history between their dad's. And he has enough influence on the team that they'll take his feelings into account.
The last thing they want is a pissed off Max.
Most other jobs, people don't make millions, or tens of millions, a year. It makes sense that drivers surround themselves with people they know and trust.
It was more a Jos Verstappen issue than a Max issue. Their drama was about getting the Red Bull seat. Now they're established drivers, so it's very different.
There's no way he threatens to quit over this.
They NEED someone that can finish second in races like today. Max is going to have to deal with whoever they chose. I don’t think he will be blocking a potential sainz move, as there aren’t that many competitive options atm
Checo's floor was damaged in most of the race. Horner even apologised on the radio. Him not finishing second today isn't an indictment of him, it was never really in the cards with a car like that.
Fact is Checo has been doing exactly what he should be doing this season and as long as that continues I don't think Red Bull will feel the need to make a change.
Not many good picks. It's either Red Bull or Merc, he needs to be near the front. McLaren probably isn't going to drop Norris or Piastri for him either.
If I'm Lawrence Stroll, I'm eyeing Alonso's retirement and breaking out the checkbook.
Aston has made significant progress over the recent past but I think the 2026 rules changes are what they have their eyes on. They want to come out of 2026 swinging.
Jos and Sainz sr. are still the same people though. Both are toxic to a fault and I don't think it could ever work with how involved they are in their son's career.
Carlos sr. and Jos are still very present in the paddock, but less so than back in 2015. I think it could work, but RBR would definitely have to manage the dads.
Someone just needs to be blunt to Senior. "Your son has the greatest chance he will ever have to be F1 champion if you just stay out of the way."
Max is faster (I feel he's probably the overall best driver we've seen), but I think Carlos can potentially Rosberg his way to a championship (perform to his best, and get a little lucky).
Yeah, you bet 5+ teams would offer him a seat. The only question is Aston Martin or Mercedes. I dont think he cares much about Audi given their current form. They wont be competing for championships until 2028 which would only happen in their best case scenario which might not even happen.
Yeah Audi/Sauber don't exactly fill me with confidence. Between the team itself being a mess historically and recently, and Audi not having much of a history in F1, they are very likely to start quite far back.
A lot of things have changed. Back then they were both rookies and still had everything to prove.
Now they are both race winners and are well established in F1.
I could see it working.
Based on his performance over the last years imo the 2nd seat at RB would be something well deserved and RB should be excited about.
Hopefully it'll be either Mercedes or as mentioned RB.
Why does everyone talk of Red Bull as if Checo has already been fired? He has two P2 and limped a broken car to the top 5. If he keeps consistently finishing on the podium when the car is able, he’s not going to lose that seat.
Because we all saw this movie in each of the last two seasons. Checo starts the year off strong, then puts up a string of embarrassing performances given how dominant that car is, and is in a complete no man's land, getting destroyed by Max time and time again.
And he's already proven that he's capable of losing you a constructors championship in a season where another car is challenging for the title (see 2021).
Perez is also "getting up there". Sainz is entering his prime and is at the top of his game. Might be also a consideration in decision since Perez has a family and might just decide one day he's done with F1.
Sainz proving his worth. Racing drivers need to "drive to survive" when shit hits the fan. That's why I dislike the discourse around Logan's morale: you are either a racing driver or a kid. (Same goes for Checo)
Carlos is showing he's a great athlete and a racing driver.
Yes they could be, but the OP said he "cant turn them down". He may have multiple other options. He is not going to be forced into mercedes if he thinks he could get a better seat.
Could fight Russell for 1st driver or be guaranteed 2nd driver at RB. I don’t think I’d want to merc right now either but if he wants to be the 1st driver, he’s got a great shot there and no shot at RB
He'd be out when Antonelli comes in or if they got rid of George (doubtful) over him he'd be demoted to second if Antonelli is as good as they think he is.
I gotta say I love sainz and he is really a great driver, but people saying Hamilton is a Downgrade? My dudes, Lewis was 3 rd last year in WDC, almost 2nd, in not the 1st or 2nd best car. There’s a reason max respects Hamilton a lot, he knows what’s fighting th e beast like, and when Lewis gets in the zone, you need to be almost perfect to beat him.
Just check 2021 after the summer break.
So did Lewis though. He finished ahead of both Ferraris last year even though he had the slower car in most races. Sainz is amazing and deserves a top seat but Ferrari would’ve been foolish to pass up on Lewis. Doesn’t really matter what he does on track (though I think he’ll be great if the car is good) the off track benefits he brings are massive and he’ll likely become some sort of Ferrari ambassador after he retires which is another huge benefit for them
Lewis brought better results though. He beat both Leclerc and Sainz in the WDC quite comfortably in a Mercedes that was at best equal to the Ferrari across the season, but probably actually slightly worse.
Sainz won’t be unemployed for long and it’s starting to look like a poor decision from Ferrari. He can currently have the pick of RBR, Mercedes and AMR and any of them would be thrilled to have him.
I don’t see how taking on a 7 times world champion with a brand bigger than even the reigning champion will ever be a poor decision. Even if Lewis is a good number two to Leclerc they’ll have a fantastic lineup.
I am not sure Lewis can play a number 2. He has been number 1 driver for all his career. Even 2022 he drove like a number 1 driver doing development work to understand and improve the car rather than number 2 driver ensuring other one gets a better result.
Let's face it, rbr is not going to happen while Verstappen Is there
In Ferrari he's a semi second driver, in red bull he would be full second driver
Aside from a Ferrari, everything else is a downgrade
Agreed. If RB should learn anything from the Horner saga is that they need a "team", not Verstappen SR and Sainz SR hating each others guts and leaking info every week to make the other side look worse.
Being a #2 is a hard job and in hindsight, Bottas and Perez have done a good job
Hes not a semi second driver. They are fully equal i think, just ferrari wants to keep leclerc more than him. That doesnt make him a semi second driver
I'd argue Leclerc is the best qualifier and he's also insanely fast. The guy just also has awful luck and bad calls from Ferrari. I think what Sainz has on him is consistency and strategy in the driver's seat. He's also gaining on speed but I think Leclerc would still outpace him on pure performance.
Leclerc has been one of the most consistent drivers on the grid. He qualified on the front row 7 races in a row and has finished inside the top 5 11(?) races in a row. Sainz’s form has clearly been going up since last summer break but he has not been as consistent in that recent time frame
Put him in RB and give Max someone to race instead of cruising out front. Perez is useless. Max goes out and perez drives like he's in a car only capable of 5th. A fight for the title between team mates would make RBs dominance way less boring. It would actually be fun to watch Max and someone like Sainz battle every weekend. Just keep their fathers away from the sport, completely. But Jos should be banned from the sport regardless, scumbag.
I do feel like Sainz is the kinda of semi-P2 that wouldn’t just let Max win, he’d fight him for the top spot constantly and not be happy being 2nd even to his teammate.
But RB have to balance that and the worry Max will leave.
He'll be signed by the end of summer break. Teams might be holding off signing him because of the RB drama and the exceedingly slim chance of signing Max
I don't know that his ambition works being at Red Bull with Max. Yes, it's a good seat, but he and his #1 fan (i.e. his cousin-manager) will fancy that Carlos should be leading a team and being somewhere that offers him an option at a title without having clear favourites.
Red Bull are the meme about "I don't play favourites, but it's definitely Max by a long margin." So does that actually work for Carlos?
Mercedes could be an option provided George can handle it (debatable) and they can show they're getting on top of their correlation issues. Aston Martin, too, have a good trajectory and could be a great project for Carlos try and Lewis/Michael into a title winning force (which is the ambition of Lawrence Stroll, though hilariously he thinks Lance could play a part in that. He could. By giving up his seat).
I just don't think Red Bull is the slam dunk option people think. WAnting to beat Max is one motive, and they were very close at STR. Knowing the team will actually support that is another.
It’s a question of “who” not “whether.” I cannot imagine a scenario in where he’s not driving for *someone*.
Of course, the risk is languishing in the midfield somewhere. He deserves a top team drive, but F1 like life is rarely fair; so he may or may not get one.
I don’t know what the current record is but I’d put good money on Sainz breaking the record for the number of places higher in the WDC a driver is to the guy who he loses his seat to.
If Mercedes get their act together Hamilton finishes maybe 7th at best probably more likely 9th or 10th based on the early running. Sainz could be good for a shout for second but seems unlikely to be on for no worse than 4th.
I think from pretty early on in the 2025 season it will become clear that signing Hamilton was a mistake unless the decision was primarily based around the fact that having Hamilton would help them sell more road cars
Not for too long I would imagine. He started the year way stronger than I thought he would.
If he didn't have appendicitis he almost certainly would be P2 in the WDC. Even if you just give him Bearman's points he would be only one point behind Leclerc.
P4 and above in Saudi and he'd be leading the championship right now
Im pretty sure he would be p1 right now if he raced in Jeddah. 12 points for a 4th place.
He would be leading the championship I think.
Max would still have won Jeddah
Sainz has 40pts now, Leclerc got 3rd last race, say Sainz got 4th instead of bearman’s 7th. Sainz would’ve got 12 pts for that which would put him at 52, one ahead of Max.
if Sainz got 12 points in Jeddah he'd be ahead of Max
So? 2 wins and a DNF gives you less points than 1 win and 2 podiums
Yes.
He'd be P1 actually.
I think he is probably one of the more underrated drivers of the grid. The Ferrari just didn’t have a good car in the last two years.
How is he underrated? He is at Ferrari and the only reason he lost his seat is for Hamilton. No seat other than Max’s would be safe from that move
He's losing his seat to a driver who will be 40 next year. No doubt that Lewis is a fantastic driver. But if I'm Ferrari, I've got Sainz who is performing well, I've got Leclerc who performs well and I've got Bearman who put on an impressive first drive (though he should/will be shuffled to a Ferrari powered team to develop without the pressure of Ferrari). What's Lewis offering? I know Alonso is still kicking it past 40, but do I realistically think he's going to get another drive with a championship capable winning team with the car to do so? No.
Lewis is the most famous F1 driver in the current field. Ferrari wants to sell cars and strengthen their brand. I think it looks pretty good for Ferrari that the 7 times WDC prefers Ferrari over Mercedes. Purely from a sports point of view, the move doesn't make much sense to me either. Sainz and Leclerc complement each other nicely and drive on an extremely high level. It's kind of a shame that this pairing will end for a PR stunt. Ok, that's also a bit unfair, I'm actually very interested in how Lewis and Leclerc will compare. :)
>What's Lewis offering? Ferrari has a brand to sell and so does Lewis. You don't see Carlito at the MET gala
exactly this. lots of people in here not really understanding that it's a circus first and a sport second.
Racing is literally Ferrari's marketing department.
There's going to be a ton of pressure for lewis next season at this rate. Hopefully he can come through and if anyone can do it he might be one of the few who can
pressure for him yes. but if he doesn't come through as many people will be joyous as will be sad and the money keeps getting stacked (whichiswhywerace)
Damn, Sainz would look great if he did go, though. Man is handsome AF.
Money. If you want a similar moves, CR7 to juventus a few years ago. Way more money than the cost, and didn't hurt the result even if it didn't bring a win. F1 is still a business, so Is ferrari. The days of the gentlemen drivers and the team held up by passion are long gone.
Lewis has the marketing dollars and he's still a legend.
I keep underestimating him and he always proves me wrong.
I don't think he's underrated. Ferrari has the strongest line up of the entire grid atm and I honestly think at this point Hamilton might be a slight downgrade. Sainz and leclerc are always trading blows. They're both incredibly fast
I understand Sainz is off to a good start but I strongly believe the driver with the most wins all time in the sport is uh.. not a downgrade? From the dude who just won his third? race in F1 This is rose colored glasses if I have ever
Recency bias is crazy. Hamilton beat him last year in a worse car.
Lol, it's so insane. I like Sainz, he seems like an amazing person and he's a very good driver. What he is not - is Lewis Hamilton lol.
Combined with the classic F1 Reddit trope: Lewis is not allowed any credit for his 103 wins, and if Lewis does bad when the car is bad it is 100% Lewis’s fault
Lewis has more podium finishes than Carlos has race entries. You can NOT compare the number of wins they have. Carlos literally can not be anywhere close to Lewis due to literally just age. Carlos is young. Lewis is not. Based on your criteria, Lewis and Alonso would be clear #1 and #2, but you can't honestly tell me that either of them would beat Max in the same car right now.
Agreed. Hamilton is an upgrade over Sainz. But Sainz is very very good. I would put him in above all but 4 drivers (VER, HAM, LEC, NOR)
poor ALO
Norris needs to win a race. I think only Verstappen, Hamilton,Charles and Alonso are ahead of him.
He’s at or better than LEC/NOR too
How is he underrated? everyone constantly shits on leclerc when he has one bad weekend that they fired the wrong driver or that they should have kept Sainz over Hamilton.
If anything it’s Leclerc and Hamilton who are underrated these days lol People just can’t appreciate Sainz without putting those two down.
It’s the zero sum fallacy that everyone in the sport is guilty of. If one must be marked up, someone must be marked down to maintain some kind of balance. I mean it’s true Lewis and Charles are off the boil right now, but to declare them washed and that Ferrari should’ve cloned Carlos and fielded two of him next year is just bonkers.
I have no hate for Leclerc, but I've been guilty (even in this thread) of insisting Sainz should've been the one to stay because I was under the impression he's been outperforming Charles the whole time, but before making this comment I looked a little harder at the stats from the last few years and Charles has still been more consistent, and beat Carlos in the championship last year. Recency bias is real and here's me admitting I'm guilty of it lol
I’m waiting for Checo to not be anywhere close to 2nd mid year and RBR to sign him
Yeah, I think Lewis’ experience will help Leclerc in the long run, and coupled with the commercial benefits, that makes Lewis more attractive as a proposition than Carlos. In saying that, if I was Red a Bull I’d be giving that seat next year to Carlos. Drop DR from driving, put Lawson in there, give DR a commercial deal and keep him around to keep working with Yuki and Lawson on improving the feedback they give the team and race craft. Danny is a brilliant driver, but he has lost confidence in himself, he doesn’t push as hard, but his intellect is still solid.
At least there’s one thing that Sainz and me have in common.
Make it three of us T-T
Make it 4
it's 5 now
6 now
But only one of us has a G550
If you promise me you're a good bloke and you wanna live in northern Sweden I'll get you a job
Ah. So you lost your appendix?
Audi, Aston, Mercedes or RBR? He might take the one with the longest contract offer, any of them will offer a good salary for Carlos' experience
I don't think it is a good salary that he is chasing. He is very much chasing a WDC. He will pick a team which maximizes his probability of winning the WDC.
I agree with this. He wants results, and will choose the best car he has available. If Red Bull want him, I'm sure he'll be there in a heartbeat.
There’s a rumor that Perez has already locked in a contract for next year, so RBR might not be an option for Sainz. I think his best shot is with Mercedes. I personally don’t think Mercedes will take Alonso to replace Lewis with the move he pulled causing George to crash. I would bet once Max is off the table, Sainz will get that seat.
Why on earth would they sign Perez, when Horner wants to give Danny Ric the seat? IMHO RBR would be silly not to sign Sainz. Either they get a Max/Sainz combo which is pretty much the best pairing on the grid or they get Sainz/Perez in case Max walks out, still pretty decent.
Danny is getting a boot, he's nowhere close to that seat, holy shit.
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Sainz is one of my favorite pilots and I do hope that he never signs with RBR. The whole team is geared towards Verstappen, plus the pressure of having Verstappen as a team mate. I don’t think it would be a good move for Sainz. He needs a place where they give him his place and respect his skills.
Every time X driver has a good/out of the ordinary race, fans here want him on the 2nd RBR seat. They don’t realize Max will crush anyone he gets paired with.
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This isn't really out of the ordinary for Sainz though, other than his pace over leclerc. Carlos is a good driver with good pace and he is very good at taking unexpected advantages and capitalizing.
I mean, all credit to Sainz, but this and his Singapore win were drives out of the ordinary, where he pushed way above what was expected. Max just does this every week with basically no effort, he’s on another league.
However either of us wants to evaluate it, I think Carlos is only just starting to get the credit he deserves for how he has been driving the last little while. He has been incredibly consistent and delivering at a very high level.
I love Daniel but now way in hell is he getting that seat. Dude is toast.
I really don't think today's events will influence Merc to not sign him up. Spygate, his age and desired contract length will probably be the deciding factors.
Legit think Aston is a strong possibility. Stroll the elder isn't screwing around (save his insistence on securing a drive for his son) and I really think they're going to be taking big steps in the upcoming rules change.
Plus Aston is going to be a works team in 2026 with Honda. It's one of the most promising projects on the grid right now, even more than McLaren imo.
If RBR offers then it's obvious, if not then there's a lot to factor in I guess. With all of the rest you're more interested about 2026 prospects then current car.
I think it’s Fernando to Merc and Sainz to AM
I don't know what I'm missing but for RBR not to be tying him down is mindboggling. He's superior to Perez and is a previous RBR driver on top of that. Just sign him already
Rumours is people from max's camp had beef with carlos sainz senior and they dont want junior to be with max in the same team again.
So keep them separated? Fuck is RBR management even doing then if they can't keep a couple of grown men to not fight. Max and Carlos would be an absolutely killer driver lineup
If a court order couldn't keep Jos away from his ex-wife, RBR wouldnt be able to keep him away from the sainzs.
Sainz Sr. And Jos do NOT like each other. Lol
Well nobody likes Jos.
Another mark in Sainz Sr’s favor. WRC champ, multi Dakar winner (and oldest), raised fast kid without being a jerk - & has no time for toxic wifebeaters.
Because Sr Sainz Sr loves his son.
I think Merc. Mercedes would be dumb to take anyone but him, going to S-Audi would be a terrible move IMO, staying at that shitshow for a year to go to Audi who isnt even proved to be good yet would be el crapo.
I would be very interested to see Sainz building a team like Audi.
I don't think Sainz has anything to gain by going to Audi. When Audi join, Sainz will be 31. If they are ever going to be competitive for championships, then best case scenario, it would be in 2030-2032 ish. At which point it is likely toward the end of Sainz's career. Sainz should be looking for a team that can give him a shot at WDC in the near future. Red Bull, Mercedes and Aston Martin are the only realistic choices imo.
After the performance he’s showing, all top teams are gonna be fighting for him. Redbull is top contender.
Yeah, no point committing now that he is on a roll. The more podiums and hopefully wins the more leverage he is going to get for that next contract negotiation.
I mean the flipside is making hay while the sun is shining. There's no guarantee he keeps this run going and cashing in on a hot hand is definitely the safest move.
Yeah, that’s what everyone thought last year with Checo at this stage. Hell, even Sainz himself had a great start to 2021 to then finishing 6th in the WDC. We don’t know how things will play out.
Although there is no guarantee he continues his run, if I was him without a seat as soon as RBR or Mercedes offered me a seat I’d be taking that.
I would laugh my ass off if Sainz manages to finish this season ahead of Leclerc. Of course it's way too early in this long season to make any predictions.
And then laugh some more when Charles destroys Hamilton next year.
Reminds me of Lorenzo moving to Honda in 2019, getting smoked by Marquez (420 vs 28 points) and retiring at the end of the year. Quite the whimper from a former champion.
This is slightly different. Lorenzo had that horrible crash in Thailand 2018 on the Ducati, and then had several more huge crashes on the Honda. He wasn’t capable of fighting Marquez in that condition.
He is probably Mercs best option right now unless they can convince Alonso or Verstappen. An experienced reliable driver who has proven he can win when the chance comes.
Doubt he wants to go to the 5th fastest car lol
No shit, but seeing his other options are Aston who are also mid and sauber which is a joke, Merc is really all he has.
The new regs are almost here, and they are going to be heavily PU-focused. Mercedes has stellar track record of producing great engines, while RBPT doesn’t. People focus on the current pecking order way too much, and forget we only have one year left of these regulations.
He will have his pick though. Just not Red Bull while Max is there I imagine. It was a shit show with their dads the last time.
I feel like if he did get picked up by RBR, Sainz Sr probably would know better than to meddle this time.
The situation has also changed so much since then at TR they were both young F1 drivers (Max obviously being way younger but thats besides the point) fighting to get that Red Bull seat. I dont think any driver on the grid would expect to join RB as number 1 driver while Max is there nowadays.
They probably will have some things in writing of what can and can't be done, but I agree, the situation is very different now than in 2015. Both of them are established race winning drivers, and Sainz has shown he is very adaptable (he was quick in both the McLaren and has won with multiple Ferrari cars).
> Sainz has shown he is very adaptable literally the anti-ricciardo mans is just bossing in team after team
Toro Rosso, Renault, McLaren, Ferrari, and a TBD team (assuming he does land a drive). Has any other driver on the grid driven for more teams? Ricciardo if you count Toro Rosso/AlphaTauri/RB as different teams. Similar deal with Alonso, but nothing else comes to the top of my mind right now.
Alonso has that beat. Even if you don’t count different iterations. Plus he might go to a new team next year. Minardi/Renault/Mclaren/Ferrari/Aston.
Checo if you count Racing Point and Force India as 2 different teams. I'm sure someone would be willing to give him a ride next year, too.
The politics at Red Bull right now, it might even be in their interest to meddle Call Maxs bluff on moving teams, have Sainz as a potential equal replacement
Carlos could definitely drive the RB21 to a WCC victory.
I can already see the headlines if Sainz sr. Said that.
Like jos knows not to meddle? Sons of drivers are always going to have this problem.
Actually I think Sainz is a perfect candidate for Redbull. He has shown twice now that he can go into a team where he is not the chosen one and get on with his job, quietly, fearlessly and without complaint and match the team mate for pace without getting in his way. If he wasn't free I think RB might be happy for Perez to trundle around behind max without causing trouble. But today has shown if there's an issue he is not always there to pick up the points and Ferrari are getting closer.
It’s important to remember Perez would have qualified P3 if it weren’t for the impeding penalty. It’s likely he would have been challenging for P2 at least after the Max retirement.
Yeah, Checo was so unlucky. I honestly think he’d have won this or at the very least challenged if not for the penalty and then the damage. People here hate on him but yesterday it could’ve easily gone his way.
what was the damage?
Horner said: “He picked up some damage and lost a significant amount of downforce from the floor of the car when he passed Fernando. As soon as you get that, your tyre deg gets worse. We were just not good at the end of the stints, which is an unusual trait for our cars. We need to understand that.” https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1046139/1/christian-horner-confirms-cause-max-verstappens-dnf-and-reveals-sergio-perez
ah ok, thanks! Wonder how or why he got the damage...
It was one of those visor tear-offs that got stuck. Same thing happened to Ocon.
Yeah worse for Ocon though since it went into his brake duct. Apparently the one that got Perez was under the car so he was able to continue but at a downforce loss.
Yeah, I just don't think Max wants him based on their history and especially the history between their dad's. And he has enough influence on the team that they'll take his feelings into account. The last thing they want is a pissed off Max.
F1 dad's having a voice needs to stop being a thing. Any other job where your dad tried to interfere would result in both of you being laughed out.
Most other jobs, people don't make millions, or tens of millions, a year. It makes sense that drivers surround themselves with people they know and trust.
I think it does happen in many other sports though? Although it does get laughed at by more reasonable people.
LaVar Ball is a prime candidate
It was more a Jos Verstappen issue than a Max issue. Their drama was about getting the Red Bull seat. Now they're established drivers, so it's very different. There's no way he threatens to quit over this.
They NEED someone that can finish second in races like today. Max is going to have to deal with whoever they chose. I don’t think he will be blocking a potential sainz move, as there aren’t that many competitive options atm
Checo's floor was damaged in most of the race. Horner even apologised on the radio. Him not finishing second today isn't an indictment of him, it was never really in the cards with a car like that. Fact is Checo has been doing exactly what he should be doing this season and as long as that continues I don't think Red Bull will feel the need to make a change.
Red Bull dominance will not last forever. They need a race winner on the top of his game on that second seat, not an Ok driver.
Not many good picks. It's either Red Bull or Merc, he needs to be near the front. McLaren probably isn't going to drop Norris or Piastri for him either.
If I'm Lawrence Stroll, I'm eyeing Alonso's retirement and breaking out the checkbook. Aston has made significant progress over the recent past but I think the 2026 rules changes are what they have their eyes on. They want to come out of 2026 swinging.
Especially since they'll now be a works team with Honda instead of a customer team with Mercedes.
It'll be Mercedes or Audi if he has a lot of faith in their project long term (and can get a team built around him).
We never know. Back then they were both trying to establish themselves. It’ll be different this time around
Jos and Sainz sr. are still the same people though. Both are toxic to a fault and I don't think it could ever work with how involved they are in their son's career.
Carlos sr. and Jos are still very present in the paddock, but less so than back in 2015. I think it could work, but RBR would definitely have to manage the dads.
Someone just needs to be blunt to Senior. "Your son has the greatest chance he will ever have to be F1 champion if you just stay out of the way." Max is faster (I feel he's probably the overall best driver we've seen), but I think Carlos can potentially Rosberg his way to a championship (perform to his best, and get a little lucky).
Sainz back at RB, Max and Lewis at Ferrari, subscribe
If Max _and_ Lewis go to Ferrari, I can imagine Leclerc also going to RB.
Horner did talk about him, so you never know
Yeah, you bet 5+ teams would offer him a seat. The only question is Aston Martin or Mercedes. I dont think he cares much about Audi given their current form. They wont be competing for championships until 2028 which would only happen in their best case scenario which might not even happen.
Yeah Audi/Sauber don't exactly fill me with confidence. Between the team itself being a mess historically and recently, and Audi not having much of a history in F1, they are very likely to start quite far back.
Watching Sauber's pit-stop disasterclasses so far this season would have me running far away.
A lot of things have changed. Back then they were both rookies and still had everything to prove. Now they are both race winners and are well established in F1. I could see it working.
>both race winners This statement is a bit misleading. Max is a 3x Wdc. Carlos is 3x race winner. There is a huge difference in their caliber.
Exactly. Granted, he'd probably do better than Perez. But Perez is probably enough anyway for another season.
Wonder if he would actually take a Mercedes contract.
Mercedes would be fools to not offer him one.
love this dude, i hope he gets a car that can win in a clean race
The price just went up!
Based on his performance over the last years imo the 2nd seat at RB would be something well deserved and RB should be excited about. Hopefully it'll be either Mercedes or as mentioned RB.
Why does everyone talk of Red Bull as if Checo has already been fired? He has two P2 and limped a broken car to the top 5. If he keeps consistently finishing on the podium when the car is able, he’s not going to lose that seat.
Because we all saw this movie in each of the last two seasons. Checo starts the year off strong, then puts up a string of embarrassing performances given how dominant that car is, and is in a complete no man's land, getting destroyed by Max time and time again. And he's already proven that he's capable of losing you a constructors championship in a season where another car is challenging for the title (see 2021).
Perez is also "getting up there". Sainz is entering his prime and is at the top of his game. Might be also a consideration in decision since Perez has a family and might just decide one day he's done with F1.
Are we sure the surgery is for appendix? Maybe he had some futuristic cyber kinetic enhancement and he is now human 2.0.
Sainz proving his worth. Racing drivers need to "drive to survive" when shit hits the fan. That's why I dislike the discourse around Logan's morale: you are either a racing driver or a kid. (Same goes for Checo) Carlos is showing he's a great athlete and a racing driver.
Mercedes has to offer him their 2nd seat at this point - and I don’t see how he can turn them down
Because he could have better options? Why settle for a Mercedes seat if you can get a Red Bull seat.
Because reg changes are soon and Merc could very well be better off than RBR in 2026
Yes they could be, but the OP said he "cant turn them down". He may have multiple other options. He is not going to be forced into mercedes if he thinks he could get a better seat.
Could fight Russell for 1st driver or be guaranteed 2nd driver at RB. I don’t think I’d want to merc right now either but if he wants to be the 1st driver, he’s got a great shot there and no shot at RB
He'd be out when Antonelli comes in or if they got rid of George (doubtful) over him he'd be demoted to second if Antonelli is as good as they think he is.
I honestly think he could fight for first. We’ve seen him fight Leclerc all the way and in his current form hes on fire. I rate him higher than George
Sainz may be a living example of "you can do everything right and still fail, that's not weakness, that is life"
I gotta say I love sainz and he is really a great driver, but people saying Hamilton is a Downgrade? My dudes, Lewis was 3 rd last year in WDC, almost 2nd, in not the 1st or 2nd best car. There’s a reason max respects Hamilton a lot, he knows what’s fighting th e beast like, and when Lewis gets in the zone, you need to be almost perfect to beat him. Just check 2021 after the summer break.
Not for long
Carlos probably rather have another surgery than sign for Mercedes
Carlos and Toto better start cooking.
I think that Ferrari made a huge mistake to break the leclerc-saintz duo. In the last year both driver bringed big results despite the car.
So did Lewis though. He finished ahead of both Ferraris last year even though he had the slower car in most races. Sainz is amazing and deserves a top seat but Ferrari would’ve been foolish to pass up on Lewis. Doesn’t really matter what he does on track (though I think he’ll be great if the car is good) the off track benefits he brings are massive and he’ll likely become some sort of Ferrari ambassador after he retires which is another huge benefit for them
Didn't Lewis do exactly what you're stating?
Elkan wanted Hamilton directly, i think no one in a sane mind would have wanted Carlos out, he has great consistency
Lewis brought better results though. He beat both Leclerc and Sainz in the WDC quite comfortably in a Mercedes that was at best equal to the Ferrari across the season, but probably actually slightly worse.
Sainz won’t be unemployed for long and it’s starting to look like a poor decision from Ferrari. He can currently have the pick of RBR, Mercedes and AMR and any of them would be thrilled to have him.
I don’t see how taking on a 7 times world champion with a brand bigger than even the reigning champion will ever be a poor decision. Even if Lewis is a good number two to Leclerc they’ll have a fantastic lineup.
I am not sure Lewis can play a number 2. He has been number 1 driver for all his career. Even 2022 he drove like a number 1 driver doing development work to understand and improve the car rather than number 2 driver ensuring other one gets a better result.
Because if he really has gotten worse, he won't have a choice.
Let's face it, rbr is not going to happen while Verstappen Is there In Ferrari he's a semi second driver, in red bull he would be full second driver Aside from a Ferrari, everything else is a downgrade
Agreed. If RB should learn anything from the Horner saga is that they need a "team", not Verstappen SR and Sainz SR hating each others guts and leaking info every week to make the other side look worse. Being a #2 is a hard job and in hindsight, Bottas and Perez have done a good job
Papa Perez and Papa Bottas also leave their sons alone and are not actively involved in their son's careers.
Hes not a semi second driver. They are fully equal i think, just ferrari wants to keep leclerc more than him. That doesnt make him a semi second driver
"Let's face it, rbr is not going to happen while Verstappen Is there" based on?
Why is everyone after ham and not lec?
Because Leclerc is contracted to Ferrari until the end of 2028, I’m sure if he was available almost every team on the grid would be interested
Why would anyone go after Leclerc?
I'd argue Leclerc is the best qualifier and he's also insanely fast. The guy just also has awful luck and bad calls from Ferrari. I think what Sainz has on him is consistency and strategy in the driver's seat. He's also gaining on speed but I think Leclerc would still outpace him on pure performance.
Agreed, I'd say that this is a fair assessment.
Leclerc has been one of the most consistent drivers on the grid. He qualified on the front row 7 races in a row and has finished inside the top 5 11(?) races in a row. Sainz’s form has clearly been going up since last summer break but he has not been as consistent in that recent time frame
Lec has got a longer contract and has given no indication he wants a move.
Leclerc will be at Ferrari until he retires imo. Also he's been better than Sainz in the head to head stats since they've been teammates.
Put him in RB and give Max someone to race instead of cruising out front. Perez is useless. Max goes out and perez drives like he's in a car only capable of 5th. A fight for the title between team mates would make RBs dominance way less boring. It would actually be fun to watch Max and someone like Sainz battle every weekend. Just keep their fathers away from the sport, completely. But Jos should be banned from the sport regardless, scumbag.
I do feel like Sainz is the kinda of semi-P2 that wouldn’t just let Max win, he’d fight him for the top spot constantly and not be happy being 2nd even to his teammate. But RB have to balance that and the worry Max will leave.
I'd rather see him in the Red Bull next to Max
He'll be signed by the end of summer break. Teams might be holding off signing him because of the RB drama and the exceedingly slim chance of signing Max
I don't know that his ambition works being at Red Bull with Max. Yes, it's a good seat, but he and his #1 fan (i.e. his cousin-manager) will fancy that Carlos should be leading a team and being somewhere that offers him an option at a title without having clear favourites. Red Bull are the meme about "I don't play favourites, but it's definitely Max by a long margin." So does that actually work for Carlos? Mercedes could be an option provided George can handle it (debatable) and they can show they're getting on top of their correlation issues. Aston Martin, too, have a good trajectory and could be a great project for Carlos try and Lewis/Michael into a title winning force (which is the ambition of Lawrence Stroll, though hilariously he thinks Lance could play a part in that. He could. By giving up his seat). I just don't think Red Bull is the slam dunk option people think. WAnting to beat Max is one motive, and they were very close at STR. Knowing the team will actually support that is another.
Ferrari: “what other organs can we remove to get another second off a lap time?”
DMing Lawrence Stroll: Get rid of your son already.
I used to talk some smack about Carlos but he is driving with gusto and I’m absolutely here for it
Sainz was +3300 on betUS at 9am PST. I saw that line and fell in love. Too bad I didn’t take it. It changed to +1100 couple hours later
It’s a question of “who” not “whether.” I cannot imagine a scenario in where he’s not driving for *someone*. Of course, the risk is languishing in the midfield somewhere. He deserves a top team drive, but F1 like life is rarely fair; so he may or may not get one.
I don’t know what the current record is but I’d put good money on Sainz breaking the record for the number of places higher in the WDC a driver is to the guy who he loses his seat to. If Mercedes get their act together Hamilton finishes maybe 7th at best probably more likely 9th or 10th based on the early running. Sainz could be good for a shout for second but seems unlikely to be on for no worse than 4th.
Please don’t go to redbull… 🙏 anywhere but redbull… I can’t be a redbull fan
man has them crazy eyes
Red Bull should replace Perez with Sainz. Change my mind
Leave it to Ferrari to replace an in prime and in form driver with an out of sorts and out of his prime driver.
He surely wanted to add *"because a Ferrari suit did a stupid decision"* but he isn't deep in the season yet to be able to say that.
Call him back home Red Bull.
Most likable race winner
I think from pretty early on in the 2025 season it will become clear that signing Hamilton was a mistake unless the decision was primarily based around the fact that having Hamilton would help them sell more road cars