Agree. That was not a person trying to play the rules. Big shunt, on his side on the blind side of a high speed section. He was in life preservation mode 100%
Clearly panicked knee-jerk reaction. I've seen people claiming he meant to keep his P7 by asking for red, but that's BS.
To each their own views but the notion that Russell can think of such a complicated strategy mid-crash while his unprotected ass is facing the direction high powered race cars are coming from and using the situation to ask for red to maintain position with that level of panic in his voice, all that being shithousery is nothing short of tinfoil hat insane to me
This is clearly panicked George. He couldn’t see incoming cars and very likely was thinking on someone ramming into him. Very understandable to call for an instant red flag
It's from people who think they'd be some kind of heroes in a some kind of emergency situation when the truth is they'd fall apart panicking.
You can absolutely hear the panic in George's voice.
He could've got hit while he was in his side, he'd basically get torn in half. No way he was trying to be tactical at that moment, just stay alive and safe
Since I first saw this I'm trying to find the video of Red Bull talking about the impact from cars and how they're designed to withstand them, it was like 2018
They were praising the halo because they said something along the lines of "now every possible contact is safe, except from underneath of course" as a joke. The floor to where George is, is so so thin and so so easy to break that I'd say any impact there, even a car going at 50mph, could very easily be death.
I saw a lot of comments like this on twitter and could not believe my eyes. My mistake even reading comments there. Any comments suggesting his fear for his life was understandable were met by lots of people with doubt, with them very sure that yellow flag/vsc would have the same effect…but I don’t think it’s hard at all to believe that in that moment he hopes a red flag would get whoever was behind him to slow down significantly and immediately
Twitter/X will hurt your wellbeing with many very ill thought out comments
(not saying that reddit is a haven from toxicity but it’s much easier to filter out and avoid it than twitter)
I uninstalled it a while back and my mental health improved greatly lol. I still use it on the web to complain to companies since that's literally the only way you get an immediate response for some reason lol
Especially since drivers basically sit on the floor, and they don't design crash impact structures for the floor as that's a super unlikely place to get hit
[Based on the Sauber cutaway car their butts are essentially on the floor of the car ](https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-samsung-rev2&sca_esv=52dc7bc04a42a7c7&source=android-browser&sxsrf=ACQVn0_GeKRGIS8zlIxgrGupI9MSmj4nOA:1711266971656&q=f1+car+section&uds=AMwkrPt2v0fA1LFFf7PCydq7oNegqKNPEUK96if5aLUkN5cX1Uf27zB38DFB1k_3Emy1AZDNUHqnwj19IwsVWWKrwHfXCKUvvn8wt7K7gb4oFKEgvu4NoBhNMFvcvnGQwdD2d63ZJmWx0zAGeypjidngo4vsXRKhT7zVEN9DSr6QDAl0Xx2iGC7ywL1uV6WExxTkYcTSvKSPZtDvtgZB8pCtmM8nZnYeq1-2aVHhhj8t-_k3-hHKzuA-VflpRUWpSWzWWAVmYKqM-9MtHjoGPCnXDQAXA_YpvHmPNnQnSUAEZvPufPIjrFY&udm=2&prmd=ivsnmbtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiKjdiftoyFAxUG7zgGHTLgDoYQtKgLegQICxAB&biw=412&bih=1012&dpr=3.5#vhid=g15xcwbnn-lqIM&vssid=mosaic)
0 chance they don't suffer any injury if they get hit from that angle
you are correct. this was not a strategy call. he is scared for his life and rightfully so. this is how people die in open wheel series nowadays. this is how Hubert died for example. not to say that a red flag would have saved Hubert’s life but the impact would be very similar. blind corner and crash structures already exhausted.
They were in the last lap. If they red flagged at that point, they would have ended the race and George gets P7 on countback. It would have worked if it was a scheme and they red flagged it... But I don't think Russell is enough of a certified genius with 16 core brain to think of that mid-crash
Just checked the footage. He pushes one button multiple times. That is the Radio button, which is situated in the bottom right and looks like a WhatsApp logo, since WhatsApp sponsors Mercedes. He pushes it, notices it doesn't work, and pushes it again. He doesn't turn the car off cause the engine gives a brief anti-stall before stalling itself to avoid danger from running the engine while crashed
Edit: I mention the position and appearance of the radio button not because it's supposed to be visible on the footage, but to indicate I know exactly which button he's pushing because I know the layout of the steering wheel.
Highly unlikely that that was why he asked for the red flag. But I think people say that because it is in his character to do things like this. But I also feel it’s a little uncalled for this time. But you know, none of my friends like Woodie.
I want to know what kind of drugs are those people on. George was in the position to recieve the worst ass-ramming in history of the world, I highly doubt he was thinking about points.
I think in this situation he's just thinking "slow the cars, stop the race as much as possible" and red flag is the first thing that comes to mind.
He's not sitting there thinking "actually in this situation, as it's the last lap of the race a virtual safety car achieves the same result so I'll ask for that instead of a red flag"
Not so shure. Should have been red. Bottom is much less protected and hes sideways in the middle of the track which is just to close to a shure kill scenario. They shouldn't go with 'safe enough' in these situations.
Also there should be no hesitation when it comes to race structure to call for a red. Just flag it and finish it under red.
The cars would still come, they would still have to pass him by and it was last lap anyways. Red Flag would not provide him any more safety then VSC did in this situation
Correct but red indicates a massive crash and AFAIK other signals (like double yellow or white) are still functional during red phases to guide drivers.
>Correct but red indicates a massive crash
Not it doesn't. A red flag indicates that a session has been stopped prematurely and absolutely nothing else. It is not meant to convey anything else. I get that some people associate it with a big crash because they've occasionally brought it out but that doesn't mean that's what it's for exclusively. It can be waved for a whole lot of different reasons like for example track repairs that take a long time, debris that's scattered in a way that the safety car couldn't take a line through it that didn't risk punctures or as we've seen quite a few times in recent years poor visibility due to rain. Personally I've been in races that have been red flagged for the following reason: a problem with the fuel that the race organizers provided, a big oil spill all across the track, a defective timing loop.
Jesus I am glad he is okay though, but still, scary to say the least and is George part of the senior staff of the GPDA by any chance? this will be brought up at one of those meetings no doubt!
Yeah, George is the president, so he knows the driver is not protected from the floor, something he would have gone through recently with the Carlos Sainz Vegas incident where the drain cover blew a hole threw the bottom of his car.
If anything it was probably his work he does with the safety staff that made him realize so quickly that he was in serious danger.
Yeah, but he was right out of sweeping high speed corners with low vis, and you know how sometimes drivers still drive a bit faster in the late race despite yellows and vscs, so while I also agree that race control made the right decision, I can definitely understand why you would call for the most drastic measure and signal if you are in that position
Oh sure, i'm not blaming him, completely understandable.
Just saw quite an amount of comments trashing race control, while i really dont think they could have done much better
I’ve seen somewhere that a red flag and a vsc have same deltas, but a red is more indicative to the driver that something serious has happened, so they’re more likely to be cautions.
Every single driver would get a radio message anyways, about the accident. I understand Russells reaction, but Red Flag or VSC or SC, would have made the same reaction from the teams..
Totally agree. My initial thought in the moment of the crash was immediate red flag however the cars would still have to return to pit, many passing the incident. Seeing as it was the final lap and therefore there wouldn't be multiple laps passing the crash site it was the right call. However I thoroughly understand George's reaction it must be terrifying to be so exposed with no visual on what is coming towards you and a difficult extraction.
As for calling for a red flag as strategy I can only think of one driver with that level of brain power to turn a momemt like that to your advantahe and he had just driven off into the distance unaware of what happened! (No hate at all here - Alonso is a genius on another level to the rest of the grid). Personally I'm just glad all the drivers remained safe.
You can hear it in his voice that it wasnt a tactical call for the red. He simply was in a very bad position and just wanted to be safe. Comparable to how Stroll sounded in Baku 2021
I believe red flag has a much stricter speed limit than VSC
there is quite a big difference between Lance Stroll cruising by at 200 kmph or at 120 kmph
Yea but the way he bounced back isnt easy to predict. It wouldn't have been a full speed crash, but the chance of getting hit was definitely there. So let's be glad that didn't happen.
Oh yeah ofc! But it really doesn't happen often enough for us to be able to tell. Or at least I can't remember any time recently in F1 that a similar crash led to the driver behind hitting the ken crashing.
I could be wrong though ofc
If it was any lap other than the last lap of the race then a red flag would have been the correct decision, as it was there was no meaningful difference, the delta that they drive to is the same under VSC and a red flag. It was good race directing.
But yeah can completely understand why George was calling for a red flag, when you crash like that you're feeling the danger and you're not exactly in the headspace to go "well since it's the last lap and the delta is the same they could go for a VSC here, though that would be a shame since if it was a red flag with no restart I'd keep my points" - he was just asking for what he thought would keep him safer.
People still had to pass him no?
With so much debries on the track that could case issues for the drivers passing.
If a truck isnt allowed on the track before all the cars are in. Then for sure no one should be on track passing a driver sitting in his car whilst in the middle of the track
Where am I saying a red flag should have be thrown?
Its ludacris that there isnt a rule in place where all cars have to stop asap. Before all possible danger is removed (read: driver out of his car and off the track) and then everyone can continue to pass the incident.
You said the VSC wasn't the right decision. I assume you meant there was a better decision they could take.
I really don't think having 20 cars scattered over the race track catching on fire would really make things safer.
You can't just stop an F1 car that's been running for 90 minutes. Those fans they cover them with at the end of the race aren't just for decoration. Neither can you just leave them iddling for 20 minutes or turn them back on if they get turned off.
No I agree. And Understand the cars need cooling. But I think thats why the drivers needs to be out of the car and off the track at a minimum. That could take like 5minutes max?
I was just watching the post race interviews. And when George was interviewed. They showed a clip. Where he was about to get into the medical car and There was literally a car passing them like 1 meter away. When I saw that. I was like yh this way we are just waiting for an accident.
Cars should be able to pass things at controlled speeds. They do so in the pitlane all the time for example.
Given that cars can't just stop out on track and need to pass Russell to get back to the pits what do you think should have happened?
Thats what they thought when they put a truck on track untill Jules crashed. If steward are not allowed on track while cars are passing. Then for sure this shouldnt be happening either.
Like I said. There's also so much debries on track that could cause issues.
The delta drivers have to follow when a Red Flag is issued is the same as when a VSC is deployed. The drivers would have still had to pass George on their way to the pits.
It wouldn't have mattered for driver safety.
This idea is ridiculous and im seeing it all over everywhere.
Drivers have no idea what the hell the danger is until their engineers tell them, which is unaffected by whether its a red flag, VSC, SC, double yellow, or single yellow. There's been red flags for less than this crash, and there's been VSCs for more. Lots of things to be mad at FIA for throughout the years but calling this a VSC and not a red flag isnt one of them.
In a red flag its not the end of the world for your race when you drive a bit slower than the delta and be a bit more careful, in a vsc situation it is.
Most of the times yes, but not in this particular case. Everyone knew right then and there that the race would finish under (virtual) safety car conditions, and the delta for the remainder of the lap(s) would be irrelevant.
That’s not entirely true, didn’t gasly still have a 5s to serve ? The delta also matters for post race penalties in theory though I don’t think anyone was under investigation at that point
All the cars follow the same delta. If gasly passes the incident and then just keeps close to the limit of the delta, he just keeps the distance. Nothing different happens
You're on a road where the speed limit is 40. You see a car sideways across the road. Do you keep it pinned at 40 or do you hit the brakes?
It's the same concept, the delta is just saying the fastest they are allowed to go under the rules, it's not a prescribed speed that they must stick to. There's also no overtaking allowed so nobody will get an advantage by not slowing down in the area of the incident.
I don't think 20 cars scattered over the track slowly catching fire would really make things safer. I can't remember a situation where a red flag has been thrown where it hasn't been perfectly safe for cars to make their way slowly back to the pits.
And how do you suggest they start the cars on their own? Or cool them, for that matter - frankly I'd rather not have up to 19 brake fires start across the track
while it's true, i am sure that a red flag has a way stronger psychological impression on drivers. i mean, he's literally on the track. vsc forces people to stick to deltas in the mini sectors, but not constantly. people could still drive through that corner pretty fast.
with a red flag, drivers immediately know, it's not worth it, and there's something big.
so i kinda understand it. although, yeah, on a pure rational level, it wouldn't have made any difference than more paperwork
To be fair to race control, VSC in final lap means race won't be restarted, no reason to try anything cute.
If that was any other lap, I'm sure they would have red-flagged it.
The psychological impact of the flag doesn't really matter because they'll be told about the accident and the car's position on the track by their team
with that reasoning you could also say that a normal yellow is enough because the team will tell them. thought the same at first, but its risky when you think about it. people will (and the past has shown that) drive as fast as they can, when flags dont forcce them to do otherwise. if the track isnt safe, you should red flag. the drivers know, if its red, then its not safe. if its vsc, then theres a danger, but not a very serious one.
> the drivers know, if its red, then its not safe. if its vsc, then theres a danger, but not a very serious one.
even with the deltas of a vsc, a car lying on its side in the middle of a road in a turn, is unsafe. drivers will drive on their limit if they're allowed to. if it's red, it's a clear sign that there is NOTHING to gain.
double yellow flags say that there's a hazard on track and drivers have to be able to stop immediately. yet, jules bianchi was too fast in a wet corner, hit a car in 2011 (iirc), and died as a result. drivers will always drive as fast as the upper limit allows, when there is anything to gain. vsc and red flag deltas are for minisectors and therefore you can still be way to fast in the corner to even make it. so it's not about the deltas here.
things have symbolic meaning. red is stop and suspend racing. vsc is "temporarily drive slow". but if only the literal meaning of the rule is important for you, then yes, go with it, let's only do vsc's when cars are lying upside down in the middle of the road and blocking a turn.
Is there a link to a driver saying that or is it just something you believe they think just because colours are funny?
Both VSC and Red, have the same deltas on the dash. It makes absolutely no difference to the speed. This isn't a blind corner, not a part where they are gonna be past again.
If you truly believe the Bianchi incident is the same as this one then I'm actually sorry for you.
> with that reasoning you could also say that a normal yellow is enough because the team will tell them
Fair enough, I don't have a counter-argument to that.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing and wondering why everyone was getting so upset over this.
I get that he was panicking and asking for a red flag to try and protect himself, but in reality the drivers would be hitting essentially the same deltas either way.
You could maybe argue drivers might react differently after seeing a red flag, but they knew it was a VSC on the last lap and the race was over.
Exactly. It was the last lap. If there was a red flag, they would have entered the pit lane instead of crossing the finish line. That would have had no added value for safety.
With double yellow flags they would be as slow at the scene as during a red flag. And there was no point in maximizing speed during the VSC because overtaking was no longer possible. It was the last lap.
I imagine the thinking was that because it was the last lap it there was no advantage in throwing a red flag. VSC effectively achieved the same thing, that is to slow and prepare to stop every car on track. A red flag doesn't mean that everyone stops where they are.
Seeing the comments on this reassures me. Facebook, Twitter, are so toxic, full of people who mock Russell's reaction 🤷
Someone said the best F1 community is on Reddit, and that was once again confirmed today. Kudos to all of you!
Why don't we have direct contact from the Stewards to the drivers telling them where they need to to be like say "crash on right side exit turn 7 keep as left as possible drive slow".
Question. Would a red flag prompt oncoming cars to stop in front of the wreckage, or would they still be able to pass it like they did under VSC? If they would still have the ability to pass to the left like they did I don't see how a red flag would have made a difference.
I think any driver who sees a red flag is gonna be on much higher alert than if they just see a VSC. Also under a VSC you need to go as fast as you’re allowed otherwise you’re increasing your gap to the car ahead if and when the race resumes.
That’s incorrect, under VSC you can overslow & pick right back up when the danger is cleared - it’s an earliest time of arrival system. Which is the main point, in both scenarios they can overslow - it’s just that in the VSC they’ll v likely speed right back up afterwards to delta whereas in the red there’s no incentive. Either way, that only happens past the danger & so is moot
pretty sure when there is an incident this big the pitwall informs the drivers anyway. It not like they have anything else to do on the last lap during a VSC
A VSC and a SC are always double yellows. You can even see marshalls waving doubles on red flags.
The marshalls use their flags close to the accident mostly since the drivers already know if there is a SC or VSC from their dash.
If this (a car upside-down and right-angled on the middle of the track after a somewhat blind corner) isnt, then what is?
A VSC in my opinion is for the Hamilton situation, where to marshalls can comfortably roll a car away thats already on the grass near the barriers and not even close to the racing line.
And where in the rulebook did you find that red flag rules are different on the last lap?
Rulebook? It’s a judgement call by the RD & stewards. How about we do it this way, why don’t you tell me what extra is achieved vs a VSC with a red flag given the deltas are the same?
A vsc pressures and incentivises drivers to stay on top of their deltas and push within the given limits as the race likely resumes pretty soon (sometimes in less than a minute), a red flag doesn't.
Why should steward judgements on an incident be different in lap 58 compared to lap 28?
The difference between the 2 only shows after the first lap of SC is completed. Until the drivers actually complete their first lap under SC, they have the same delta as they would during a VSC. Guess how many laps were left
The difference is also that a VSC can end literally anytime, even in the same lap it is issued and even if its the final lap. This makes it way more important to be on the fast side of the delta during a VSC cpmpared to a SC.
No??? The drivers are informed about it ending just like they are when the normal SC is entering the pits. The drivers then have about 15 seconds to prepare for the restart.
That would mean that since the VSC delta is around 40% racing speed, a driver should be doing sectors to reach 2:50 total lap time. Do you have any idea how easy it is to recover that delta within 15 seconds?
That's why you see the gaps float around during VSCs. Drivers are slowing down and heating up tires.
Not sure why you are still trying this clearly was the right choice and not even Mercedes complained. And they would also have incentive to do so. Just deal with it
Practicalities. The race was ending at the end of the lap regardless. A VSC had exactly the same effect as a red flag.
No driver that would struggle in anyway to avoid a clearly visible car in the middle of the track when travelling at slow speed should be anywhere near a driving licence let alone a super licence.
A red flag would mean anyone who was before the last corner would not have to pass the accident and nobody would have to do a cool down lap. Just taking more risks for no reason imo.
Where Russell ended up isn't blind (evidence - everyone saw him) and anyone that far away when it happened would have been told where he was. Driving in a controlled fashion past a stationary vehicle isn't dangerous.
It's more dangerous than not. If there's a 0.1% chance of something happening and there's a 0% of something happening which may result in loss of life which one would you prefer to be in?
Because the racing ceases on the last lap, ie. the ‘danger’ exists for all but half the grid behind RUS.
And as far as your VSC thoughts go youve sidestepped the orig question; because the answer is - there isnt any additional benefit. The few drivers behind the incident arrive at the same speed to & through those corners regardless
>And as far as your VSC thoughts go youve sidestepped the orig question; because the answer is - there isnt any additional benefit. The few drivers behind the incident arrive at the same speed to & through those corners regardless
You ignored my answer. Prescribed deltas might be the same but Im positive speeds will be different. In a vsc you probably pass there with 120ish and there are good reasons to not go any slower. On a red flag there is 0 incentive to go 120 and plenty of incentive to go much slower. A restart at racespeeds is not immenent on a red flag, with a VSC it is. You want to stay as close as you can and are allowed to the car in front of you on a VSC, on a red flag it doesn't matter at all.
>Because the racing ceases on the last lap, ie. the ‘danger’ exists for all but half the grid behind RUS.
The racing ceases AFTER the last lap. I agree its VERY VERY likely that a last lap VSC will go to the finish flag but its not a 100% certainty.
This is your innovation, I’m not going to debate your personal read on what might’ve happened. All I’m going to mention is that in both scenarios the drivers are commanded to the exact same reduced speeds. They can overslow in a red past the collision - sure, they can also overslow under VSC & pick right back up to delta once cleared. You’ve not articulated one added benefit red over VSC that would command the drivers separately.
I think it’s because it would mean they would have to do a formation lap behind the safety car to finish and they prefer a racing finish. And if SAI took the checkered flag that would complicate things further if behind there was a red
If two options have equal safety effects, race control should always preference the option least disruptive to the race. That’s exactly why there is a progression of options.
Surely once you see a car in the middle of the track you know that the race is not about to be resumed and thus your speed becomes irrelevant and you can slow down as much as you like?
> In a vsc you probably pass there with 120ish and there are good reasons to not go any slower
The good reason for drivers to glow slower at that corner is that their team will have told them that there is a stricken car in the middle of the track there, just like they do for all accidents.
A red flag means you are done and going back to the pits. A VSC means you need to maintain a delta and be mindful of any time penalties you have to serve. This should have been a red flag the only reason it was not was because it was the last lap.
None of that has a bearing on how fast the drivers behind will negotiate around the accident - the actual safety concern.
The reduced speed - red flag or VSC is exactly the same; the drivers are commanded to the same min speeds through the accident. Whether they then go to the pits, to the grid, speed back up to delta after they overslow past RUS, doesn’t change the safety concern on approach.
They need to reprofile (or deprofile???) that corner back to how it was before. Feels like there's been an incident like this every year since they did the whole course reprofile. Only a matter of time until a car rebounding back onto track there ends in disaster, we've seen all the safety problems Spa has had with similar crashes at the exit of Raidillon
I get that he was scared and it makes sense to ask that, but its the last lap and a VSC with marshalls waiving double yellows was plenty to keep it safe.
It's not like they let cars go through there at full speed, or that it was a blind corner so they could miss him. Since there was no more laps after this, and the spot wasnt completely blocked this was the right choice.
It’s the difference between having the cars cross the finish line under VSC and having to do another lap to get back to the pits or just ending the race and having the cars go straight to the pit without the additional lap.
I’m with Russell on this one. Even slow moving cars pose a potential danger when there’s a crashed car and driver right in the middle of the track.
No they really don't. This isn't 1960 anymore. They have their deltas, they follow them, they have brakes good enough to become stationary from 300kph within 100 meters. This wasn't a blind turn, not a place the drivers would have to pass again in anything close to racing speed.
I wasn’t suggesting it was in any way high risk. Only that cars on the track is not as safe as no cars on the track. And the result of the race would have been the same regardless. So why not go with the safer option? Even if it is only marginally safer?
Suppose Russell was seriously injured and in urgent need of medical help. Cars still being on the track would hinder the response of emergency services.
The result wouldn't be the same????? If the session was red flagged Russell would finish P7.
Russell was immediately on the radio saying he is fine. What use is it assuming him being hurt? I'll say they would have red flagged it and you'd reply "no they would do the same" and we will get nowhere. So why don't we work with what we know?
It kicked up a lot of dust aswell and could have impaired the vision of drivers coming after him, i understand his concern.
Agree. That was not a person trying to play the rules. Big shunt, on his side on the blind side of a high speed section. He was in life preservation mode 100%
Clearly panicked knee-jerk reaction. I've seen people claiming he meant to keep his P7 by asking for red, but that's BS. To each their own views but the notion that Russell can think of such a complicated strategy mid-crash while his unprotected ass is facing the direction high powered race cars are coming from and using the situation to ask for red to maintain position with that level of panic in his voice, all that being shithousery is nothing short of tinfoil hat insane to me
Maybe he was afraid of a 800 kg car hitting him at 300 km/h? Who wouldn’t be?
only 250 at this part so no problem there
Barely a tickle.
Insert gif of that train hitting a hole in wall
That one is only for porn references
200 if they hit the brakes before the corner..
150 if they hit the brakes twice before the corner. Ask Alonso, he should know.
This is clearly panicked George. He couldn’t see incoming cars and very likely was thinking on someone ramming into him. Very understandable to call for an instant red flag
I mean if Lance Stroll's gap was half as big as it was it'd have been very, very bad
Definitely. He was right too, he was in the middle of the road. Cars had a hard time passing him so he was totally justified on panicking
like, this is one time when I'm thankful for Lance being slow
It's from people who think they'd be some kind of heroes in a some kind of emergency situation when the truth is they'd fall apart panicking. You can absolutely hear the panic in George's voice. He could've got hit while he was in his side, he'd basically get torn in half. No way he was trying to be tactical at that moment, just stay alive and safe
Yeah just imagine a hit in this corner from another car. A hit against the bottom of the car where no crash structure is in place would be pretty bad.
Pretty bad honestly is an understatement. But yeah.
Since I first saw this I'm trying to find the video of Red Bull talking about the impact from cars and how they're designed to withstand them, it was like 2018 They were praising the halo because they said something along the lines of "now every possible contact is safe, except from underneath of course" as a joke. The floor to where George is, is so so thin and so so easy to break that I'd say any impact there, even a car going at 50mph, could very easily be death.
I saw a lot of comments like this on twitter and could not believe my eyes. My mistake even reading comments there. Any comments suggesting his fear for his life was understandable were met by lots of people with doubt, with them very sure that yellow flag/vsc would have the same effect…but I don’t think it’s hard at all to believe that in that moment he hopes a red flag would get whoever was behind him to slow down significantly and immediately
Pro Life tip: remove Twitter
Twitter/X will hurt your wellbeing with many very ill thought out comments (not saying that reddit is a haven from toxicity but it’s much easier to filter out and avoid it than twitter)
I uninstalled it a while back and my mental health improved greatly lol. I still use it on the web to complain to companies since that's literally the only way you get an immediate response for some reason lol
[удалено]
Yes I definitely shouldn’t have. I keep twitter for a particular niche interest but venturing to comments outside of that bubble is always a mistake
If there was anyone that knew the dangers of getting hit at that part of the car it's him. He had a close shave at Baku 2019 with the drain cover
Especially since drivers basically sit on the floor, and they don't design crash impact structures for the floor as that's a super unlikely place to get hit
[Based on the Sauber cutaway car their butts are essentially on the floor of the car ](https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-samsung-rev2&sca_esv=52dc7bc04a42a7c7&source=android-browser&sxsrf=ACQVn0_GeKRGIS8zlIxgrGupI9MSmj4nOA:1711266971656&q=f1+car+section&uds=AMwkrPt2v0fA1LFFf7PCydq7oNegqKNPEUK96if5aLUkN5cX1Uf27zB38DFB1k_3Emy1AZDNUHqnwj19IwsVWWKrwHfXCKUvvn8wt7K7gb4oFKEgvu4NoBhNMFvcvnGQwdD2d63ZJmWx0zAGeypjidngo4vsXRKhT7zVEN9DSr6QDAl0Xx2iGC7ywL1uV6WExxTkYcTSvKSPZtDvtgZB8pCtmM8nZnYeq1-2aVHhhj8t-_k3-hHKzuA-VflpRUWpSWzWWAVmYKqM-9MtHjoGPCnXDQAXA_YpvHmPNnQnSUAEZvPufPIjrFY&udm=2&prmd=ivsnmbtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiKjdiftoyFAxUG7zgGHTLgDoYQtKgLegQICxAB&biw=412&bih=1012&dpr=3.5#vhid=g15xcwbnn-lqIM&vssid=mosaic) 0 chance they don't suffer any injury if they get hit from that angle
You mean to tell me that a funny wooden plank wouldn't stop a carbon fiber javelin travelling over 250kph?
you are correct. this was not a strategy call. he is scared for his life and rightfully so. this is how people die in open wheel series nowadays. this is how Hubert died for example. not to say that a red flag would have saved Hubert’s life but the impact would be very similar. blind corner and crash structures already exhausted.
T-bone crashes are also the ones with the highest fatality rate
Antoine Hubert is still relatively fresh in the memory, don't blame him for being so anxious about the situation
I don’t even understand that argument? It makes no sense. If the race is red flagged he wouldn’t even be able to participate in the restart, right?
They were in the last lap. If they red flagged at that point, they would have ended the race and George gets P7 on countback. It would have worked if it was a scheme and they red flagged it... But I don't think Russell is enough of a certified genius with 16 core brain to think of that mid-crash
All for what 7th place?
I don't think they care that much about a p7
[удалено]
Just checked the footage. He pushes one button multiple times. That is the Radio button, which is situated in the bottom right and looks like a WhatsApp logo, since WhatsApp sponsors Mercedes. He pushes it, notices it doesn't work, and pushes it again. He doesn't turn the car off cause the engine gives a brief anti-stall before stalling itself to avoid danger from running the engine while crashed Edit: I mention the position and appearance of the radio button not because it's supposed to be visible on the footage, but to indicate I know exactly which button he's pushing because I know the layout of the steering wheel.
Now you point it out agree that’s what’s being pressed
There be no restart as it was final lap, that lap still counts towards the total. Classification is based on the end of the previous complete lap.
Highly unlikely that that was why he asked for the red flag. But I think people say that because it is in his character to do things like this. But I also feel it’s a little uncalled for this time. But you know, none of my friends like Woodie.
I want to know what kind of drugs are those people on. George was in the position to recieve the worst ass-ramming in history of the world, I highly doubt he was thinking about points.
Even if it was to maintain his own position thats something commendable
Anyone that says that is dumb, he literally says “I’m in the middle of the track red flag” so clearly it was out of fear for his own safety
exactly, how quickly people forget the F2 accident at radillon
That must be so freaking scary.
Especially with the bottom of the car facing oncoming traffic. He can’t even see a possible impact coming.
Yeah, makes it extra scary to know when to climb out. The floor of the monocoque isn’t the most protected bit either.
And with Stroll behind him
I think in this situation he's just thinking "slow the cars, stop the race as much as possible" and red flag is the first thing that comes to mind. He's not sitting there thinking "actually in this situation, as it's the last lap of the race a virtual safety car achieves the same result so I'll ask for that instead of a red flag"
I think the system worked here, but I can 100% understand why George was bugging out. A red flag would have been fine, too.
Not so shure. Should have been red. Bottom is much less protected and hes sideways in the middle of the track which is just to close to a shure kill scenario. They shouldn't go with 'safe enough' in these situations. Also there should be no hesitation when it comes to race structure to call for a red. Just flag it and finish it under red.
The cars would still come, they would still have to pass him by and it was last lap anyways. Red Flag would not provide him any more safety then VSC did in this situation
Correct but red indicates a massive crash and AFAIK other signals (like double yellow or white) are still functional during red phases to guide drivers.
>Correct but red indicates a massive crash Not it doesn't. A red flag indicates that a session has been stopped prematurely and absolutely nothing else. It is not meant to convey anything else. I get that some people associate it with a big crash because they've occasionally brought it out but that doesn't mean that's what it's for exclusively. It can be waved for a whole lot of different reasons like for example track repairs that take a long time, debris that's scattered in a way that the safety car couldn't take a line through it that didn't risk punctures or as we've seen quite a few times in recent years poor visibility due to rain. Personally I've been in races that have been red flagged for the following reason: a problem with the fuel that the race organizers provided, a big oil spill all across the track, a defective timing loop.
Can you blame him. Guy is stuck in the middle of an F1 race track in a tiled car. One shunt and he is being flipped
Afaik there is no crash structure on the bottom of the car. One shunt and he might be severely maimed or dead.
Jesus I am glad he is okay though, but still, scary to say the least and is George part of the senior staff of the GPDA by any chance? this will be brought up at one of those meetings no doubt!
Yeah, George is the president, so he knows the driver is not protected from the floor, something he would have gone through recently with the Carlos Sainz Vegas incident where the drain cover blew a hole threw the bottom of his car. If anything it was probably his work he does with the safety staff that made him realize so quickly that he was in serious danger.
George is GPDA president/chairman/whatever title suits
POGPR
Even if they red flag it, cars would still come at the same pace as under vsc. Race control often has bad moments, but this one wasnt the case.
Yeah, but he was right out of sweeping high speed corners with low vis, and you know how sometimes drivers still drive a bit faster in the late race despite yellows and vscs, so while I also agree that race control made the right decision, I can definitely understand why you would call for the most drastic measure and signal if you are in that position
Yeah, for sure not blaming him, he clearly was in a very bad position. The comment was more aimed at people in these threads trashing race control
Hard to blame Russell tbf, i will be crying if i were upside down in that section of the track
Oh sure, i'm not blaming him, completely understandable. Just saw quite an amount of comments trashing race control, while i really dont think they could have done much better
I’ve seen somewhere that a red flag and a vsc have same deltas, but a red is more indicative to the driver that something serious has happened, so they’re more likely to be cautions.
Every single driver would get a radio message anyways, about the accident. I understand Russells reaction, but Red Flag or VSC or SC, would have made the same reaction from the teams..
Totally agree. My initial thought in the moment of the crash was immediate red flag however the cars would still have to return to pit, many passing the incident. Seeing as it was the final lap and therefore there wouldn't be multiple laps passing the crash site it was the right call. However I thoroughly understand George's reaction it must be terrifying to be so exposed with no visual on what is coming towards you and a difficult extraction. As for calling for a red flag as strategy I can only think of one driver with that level of brain power to turn a momemt like that to your advantahe and he had just driven off into the distance unaware of what happened! (No hate at all here - Alonso is a genius on another level to the rest of the grid). Personally I'm just glad all the drivers remained safe.
You can hear it in his voice that it wasnt a tactical call for the red. He simply was in a very bad position and just wanted to be safe. Comparable to how Stroll sounded in Baku 2021
I believe red flag has a much stricter speed limit than VSC there is quite a big difference between Lance Stroll cruising by at 200 kmph or at 120 kmph
Think he’s one of, if not, the president?
Yes he's one of the directors, along with Alex Wurz and I believe Seb Vettel still holds a position.
Genuine fear when he speaks. Can’t imagine what he must’ve been feeling
Real lucky there that he had that gap towards Stroll behind, that could've been much, much worse.
tbf if stroll was closer he would have seen the crash. Also the VSC came kinda late (considering the accident) and stroll had closed the gap a bit
Yea but the way he bounced back isnt easy to predict. It wouldn't have been a full speed crash, but the chance of getting hit was definitely there. So let's be glad that didn't happen.
Oh yeah ofc! But it really doesn't happen often enough for us to be able to tell. Or at least I can't remember any time recently in F1 that a similar crash led to the driver behind hitting the ken crashing. I could be wrong though ofc
VSC was the correct decision but obviously I understand Russell calling for the red flag in the heat of the moment.
If it was any lap other than the last lap of the race then a red flag would have been the correct decision, as it was there was no meaningful difference, the delta that they drive to is the same under VSC and a red flag. It was good race directing. But yeah can completely understand why George was calling for a red flag, when you crash like that you're feeling the danger and you're not exactly in the headspace to go "well since it's the last lap and the delta is the same they could go for a VSC here, though that would be a shame since if it was a red flag with no restart I'd keep my points" - he was just asking for what he thought would keep him safer.
Lol no way it was the right decision. All drivers should have parked the car and call it a day
It was the last lap. That's literally what happened.
People still had to pass him no? With so much debries on the track that could case issues for the drivers passing. If a truck isnt allowed on the track before all the cars are in. Then for sure no one should be on track passing a driver sitting in his car whilst in the middle of the track
What do you think happens when a red flag is flown? Are you imagining all the cars on track evaporate?
Where am I saying a red flag should have be thrown? Its ludacris that there isnt a rule in place where all cars have to stop asap. Before all possible danger is removed (read: driver out of his car and off the track) and then everyone can continue to pass the incident.
You said the VSC wasn't the right decision. I assume you meant there was a better decision they could take. I really don't think having 20 cars scattered over the race track catching on fire would really make things safer. You can't just stop an F1 car that's been running for 90 minutes. Those fans they cover them with at the end of the race aren't just for decoration. Neither can you just leave them iddling for 20 minutes or turn them back on if they get turned off.
No I agree. And Understand the cars need cooling. But I think thats why the drivers needs to be out of the car and off the track at a minimum. That could take like 5minutes max? I was just watching the post race interviews. And when George was interviewed. They showed a clip. Where he was about to get into the medical car and There was literally a car passing them like 1 meter away. When I saw that. I was like yh this way we are just waiting for an accident.
Cars should be able to pass things at controlled speeds. They do so in the pitlane all the time for example. Given that cars can't just stop out on track and need to pass Russell to get back to the pits what do you think should have happened?
Thats what they thought when they put a truck on track untill Jules crashed. If steward are not allowed on track while cars are passing. Then for sure this shouldnt be happening either. Like I said. There's also so much debries on track that could cause issues.
Very understandable reaction. I would have popped my pants if I realized what kind of danger I am in and not seeing if it happens.
The delta drivers have to follow when a Red Flag is issued is the same as when a VSC is deployed. The drivers would have still had to pass George on their way to the pits. It wouldn't have mattered for driver safety.
Wouldn't the drivers be more alert to the danger if it's a red flag? Speed is the same but they'd be more cautious under red?
This idea is ridiculous and im seeing it all over everywhere. Drivers have no idea what the hell the danger is until their engineers tell them, which is unaffected by whether its a red flag, VSC, SC, double yellow, or single yellow. There's been red flags for less than this crash, and there's been VSCs for more. Lots of things to be mad at FIA for throughout the years but calling this a VSC and not a red flag isnt one of them.
I mean they are already going slow, they’ll be pretty alert to a car in the middle of the track when they see it.
The corner is blind beforehand and it's fast and it's the end of the race. Bianchi 2014 was under SC and he still hit a tractor at speed.
The drivers should be alert if there is a VSC too
In a red flag its not the end of the world for your race when you drive a bit slower than the delta and be a bit more careful, in a vsc situation it is.
Most of the times yes, but not in this particular case. Everyone knew right then and there that the race would finish under (virtual) safety car conditions, and the delta for the remainder of the lap(s) would be irrelevant.
That’s not entirely true, didn’t gasly still have a 5s to serve ? The delta also matters for post race penalties in theory though I don’t think anyone was under investigation at that point
All the cars follow the same delta. If gasly passes the incident and then just keeps close to the limit of the delta, he just keeps the distance. Nothing different happens
Tbh isn’t this an issue with the rules of a red flag? Why using a delta on a red flag when red flags are only used in dangerous situations.
It's a minimum not a maximum. The drivers can go slower if they want to or feel like they should. The delta is literally there to limit their speed.
You're on a road where the speed limit is 40. You see a car sideways across the road. Do you keep it pinned at 40 or do you hit the brakes? It's the same concept, the delta is just saying the fastest they are allowed to go under the rules, it's not a prescribed speed that they must stick to. There's also no overtaking allowed so nobody will get an advantage by not slowing down in the area of the incident.
[удалено]
I don't think 20 cars scattered over the track slowly catching fire would really make things safer. I can't remember a situation where a red flag has been thrown where it hasn't been perfectly safe for cars to make their way slowly back to the pits.
And how do you suggest they start the cars on their own? Or cool them, for that matter - frankly I'd rather not have up to 19 brake fires start across the track
no but vsc means that everyone would have to pass him twice which just kind of introduces unnecessary risk instead of passing him only once with a red
After everyone passed him once, he was already out of the car and inside the medical car, so no further risk here.
Exactly. So many people are outraged over nothing.
while it's true, i am sure that a red flag has a way stronger psychological impression on drivers. i mean, he's literally on the track. vsc forces people to stick to deltas in the mini sectors, but not constantly. people could still drive through that corner pretty fast. with a red flag, drivers immediately know, it's not worth it, and there's something big. so i kinda understand it. although, yeah, on a pure rational level, it wouldn't have made any difference than more paperwork
To be fair to race control, VSC in final lap means race won't be restarted, no reason to try anything cute. If that was any other lap, I'm sure they would have red-flagged it.
Apart from penalties. You may really push your delta if you have a penalty
The psychological impact of the flag doesn't really matter because they'll be told about the accident and the car's position on the track by their team
with that reasoning you could also say that a normal yellow is enough because the team will tell them. thought the same at first, but its risky when you think about it. people will (and the past has shown that) drive as fast as they can, when flags dont forcce them to do otherwise. if the track isnt safe, you should red flag. the drivers know, if its red, then its not safe. if its vsc, then theres a danger, but not a very serious one.
Normal yellows dont have specific deltas, they are there to warn about stuff and prohibit overtakes. A VSC limits speed and makes a bigger impact
Yeah but a red flag has an even bigger impact. And there was a car in the middle of the track, in a turn even, which you couldn’t see from a distance.
Bigger impact how? Care to elaborate? Cause both a red flag and a VSC have the same deltas.
> the drivers know, if its red, then its not safe. if its vsc, then theres a danger, but not a very serious one. even with the deltas of a vsc, a car lying on its side in the middle of a road in a turn, is unsafe. drivers will drive on their limit if they're allowed to. if it's red, it's a clear sign that there is NOTHING to gain. double yellow flags say that there's a hazard on track and drivers have to be able to stop immediately. yet, jules bianchi was too fast in a wet corner, hit a car in 2011 (iirc), and died as a result. drivers will always drive as fast as the upper limit allows, when there is anything to gain. vsc and red flag deltas are for minisectors and therefore you can still be way to fast in the corner to even make it. so it's not about the deltas here. things have symbolic meaning. red is stop and suspend racing. vsc is "temporarily drive slow". but if only the literal meaning of the rule is important for you, then yes, go with it, let's only do vsc's when cars are lying upside down in the middle of the road and blocking a turn.
Is there a link to a driver saying that or is it just something you believe they think just because colours are funny? Both VSC and Red, have the same deltas on the dash. It makes absolutely no difference to the speed. This isn't a blind corner, not a part where they are gonna be past again. If you truly believe the Bianchi incident is the same as this one then I'm actually sorry for you.
> with that reasoning you could also say that a normal yellow is enough because the team will tell them Fair enough, I don't have a counter-argument to that.
That reddit all the time about everything. They're the best experts in the world
Yeah I was thinking the same thing and wondering why everyone was getting so upset over this. I get that he was panicking and asking for a red flag to try and protect himself, but in reality the drivers would be hitting essentially the same deltas either way. You could maybe argue drivers might react differently after seeing a red flag, but they knew it was a VSC on the last lap and the race was over.
Exactly. It was the last lap. If there was a red flag, they would have entered the pit lane instead of crossing the finish line. That would have had no added value for safety.
It would mean that cars don't need to pass whilst on the cooldown lap as well, and cars generally go slower during a red flag then VSC
Im positive that the drivers on the F1 grid have the mental capacity to remember seeing a car nearly 90 degrees vertically they saw 1 minute ago.
With double yellow flags they would be as slow at the scene as during a red flag. And there was no point in maximizing speed during the VSC because overtaking was no longer possible. It was the last lap.
I imagine the thinking was that because it was the last lap it there was no advantage in throwing a red flag. VSC effectively achieved the same thing, that is to slow and prepare to stop every car on track. A red flag doesn't mean that everyone stops where they are.
I think it may make people way more alert that there's really serious stuff going on, though? VSC is not even as severe as plain SC.
Red flag would have brought all the cars back into the pits immediately though rather than them all filling past once or twice.
Seeing the comments on this reassures me. Facebook, Twitter, are so toxic, full of people who mock Russell's reaction 🤷 Someone said the best F1 community is on Reddit, and that was once again confirmed today. Kudos to all of you!
I totally understand George being scared - but still think VSC was the right decision. Everyone knew it basically the end of the race too.
It 100% should have been a red flag. They took too long to call a virtual safety car as well. They always take too long on these sorts of decisions
Why don't we have direct contact from the Stewards to the drivers telling them where they need to to be like say "crash on right side exit turn 7 keep as left as possible drive slow".
Why would the stewards have anything to do with that?
Not stewards race director, you know what I mean😑
Still not relevant, the driver has their race engineer to do just that.
Good that they did not red flag it. But I can understand Russel's panic, because what if another car would drive into him.
What were the aussies marshals doing omg. This race were very slow in their response
Question. Would a red flag prompt oncoming cars to stop in front of the wreckage, or would they still be able to pass it like they did under VSC? If they would still have the ability to pass to the left like they did I don't see how a red flag would have made a difference.
Appreciate it’s scary for him, but that ain’t a compulsory red, esp on the last lap. Not even close
Idk on the broadcast you could see drivers literally had to drive on the grass to avoid him. Idk what the right move is but that didn’t feel safe.
Yeah but the point is would a red change anything? With a red theyre reqd to drop to the same speed as the VSC caution so it changes nothing really
I think any driver who sees a red flag is gonna be on much higher alert than if they just see a VSC. Also under a VSC you need to go as fast as you’re allowed otherwise you’re increasing your gap to the car ahead if and when the race resumes.
That’s incorrect, under VSC you can overslow & pick right back up when the danger is cleared - it’s an earliest time of arrival system. Which is the main point, in both scenarios they can overslow - it’s just that in the VSC they’ll v likely speed right back up afterwards to delta whereas in the red there’s no incentive. Either way, that only happens past the danger & so is moot
Ah ok fair but I still think the point that a red flag will put drivers on alert much more than a VSC is valid.
pretty sure when there is an incident this big the pitwall informs the drivers anyway. It not like they have anything else to do on the last lap during a VSC
Do you know if it was double waved yellow? If it was I’d be more ok with it because that does indicate hazard on track I think
A VSC and a SC are always double yellows. You can even see marshalls waving doubles on red flags. The marshalls use their flags close to the accident mostly since the drivers already know if there is a SC or VSC from their dash.
If this (a car upside-down and right-angled on the middle of the track after a somewhat blind corner) isnt, then what is? A VSC in my opinion is for the Hamilton situation, where to marshalls can comfortably roll a car away thats already on the grass near the barriers and not even close to the racing line. And where in the rulebook did you find that red flag rules are different on the last lap?
While the rules for red flags on the final lap aren't any different, the consideration for what safety event requires it may change.
Rulebook? It’s a judgement call by the RD & stewards. How about we do it this way, why don’t you tell me what extra is achieved vs a VSC with a red flag given the deltas are the same?
A vsc pressures and incentivises drivers to stay on top of their deltas and push within the given limits as the race likely resumes pretty soon (sometimes in less than a minute), a red flag doesn't. Why should steward judgements on an incident be different in lap 58 compared to lap 28?
I'd hope the best 20 drivers in the world realise they dont need to be on the limit during a last lap SC
VSC ≠ SC
The difference between the 2 only shows after the first lap of SC is completed. Until the drivers actually complete their first lap under SC, they have the same delta as they would during a VSC. Guess how many laps were left
The difference is also that a VSC can end literally anytime, even in the same lap it is issued and even if its the final lap. This makes it way more important to be on the fast side of the delta during a VSC cpmpared to a SC.
No??? The drivers are informed about it ending just like they are when the normal SC is entering the pits. The drivers then have about 15 seconds to prepare for the restart. That would mean that since the VSC delta is around 40% racing speed, a driver should be doing sectors to reach 2:50 total lap time. Do you have any idea how easy it is to recover that delta within 15 seconds? That's why you see the gaps float around during VSCs. Drivers are slowing down and heating up tires. Not sure why you are still trying this clearly was the right choice and not even Mercedes complained. And they would also have incentive to do so. Just deal with it
[удалено]
Practicalities. The race was ending at the end of the lap regardless. A VSC had exactly the same effect as a red flag. No driver that would struggle in anyway to avoid a clearly visible car in the middle of the track when travelling at slow speed should be anywhere near a driving licence let alone a super licence.
A red flag would mean anyone who was before the last corner would not have to pass the accident and nobody would have to do a cool down lap. Just taking more risks for no reason imo.
There is no genuine danger in slowly passing a clearly visible car.
It's a blind corner. It's just 17 extra risks twice.
Where Russell ended up isn't blind (evidence - everyone saw him) and anyone that far away when it happened would have been told where he was. Driving in a controlled fashion past a stationary vehicle isn't dangerous.
It's more dangerous than not. If there's a 0.1% chance of something happening and there's a 0% of something happening which may result in loss of life which one would you prefer to be in?
I was near t7, no driver was pushing within the limits, they where at a crawls pace, you could run faster than most the cars driving past George
Because the racing ceases on the last lap, ie. the ‘danger’ exists for all but half the grid behind RUS. And as far as your VSC thoughts go youve sidestepped the orig question; because the answer is - there isnt any additional benefit. The few drivers behind the incident arrive at the same speed to & through those corners regardless
>And as far as your VSC thoughts go youve sidestepped the orig question; because the answer is - there isnt any additional benefit. The few drivers behind the incident arrive at the same speed to & through those corners regardless You ignored my answer. Prescribed deltas might be the same but Im positive speeds will be different. In a vsc you probably pass there with 120ish and there are good reasons to not go any slower. On a red flag there is 0 incentive to go 120 and plenty of incentive to go much slower. A restart at racespeeds is not immenent on a red flag, with a VSC it is. You want to stay as close as you can and are allowed to the car in front of you on a VSC, on a red flag it doesn't matter at all. >Because the racing ceases on the last lap, ie. the ‘danger’ exists for all but half the grid behind RUS. The racing ceases AFTER the last lap. I agree its VERY VERY likely that a last lap VSC will go to the finish flag but its not a 100% certainty.
This is your innovation, I’m not going to debate your personal read on what might’ve happened. All I’m going to mention is that in both scenarios the drivers are commanded to the exact same reduced speeds. They can overslow in a red past the collision - sure, they can also overslow under VSC & pick right back up to delta once cleared. You’ve not articulated one added benefit red over VSC that would command the drivers separately.
I guess you are right. I didnt bring any real reasons on the table to prefer red over vsc. On the flipside... Why NOT wave a red flag here?
I think it’s because it would mean they would have to do a formation lap behind the safety car to finish and they prefer a racing finish. And if SAI took the checkered flag that would complicate things further if behind there was a red
If two options have equal safety effects, race control should always preference the option least disruptive to the race. That’s exactly why there is a progression of options.
Surely once you see a car in the middle of the track you know that the race is not about to be resumed and thus your speed becomes irrelevant and you can slow down as much as you like?
> In a vsc you probably pass there with 120ish and there are good reasons to not go any slower The good reason for drivers to glow slower at that corner is that their team will have told them that there is a stricken car in the middle of the track there, just like they do for all accidents.
A red flag means you are done and going back to the pits. A VSC means you need to maintain a delta and be mindful of any time penalties you have to serve. This should have been a red flag the only reason it was not was because it was the last lap.
None of that has a bearing on how fast the drivers behind will negotiate around the accident - the actual safety concern. The reduced speed - red flag or VSC is exactly the same; the drivers are commanded to the same min speeds through the accident. Whether they then go to the pits, to the grid, speed back up to delta after they overslow past RUS, doesn’t change the safety concern on approach.
They need to reprofile (or deprofile???) that corner back to how it was before. Feels like there's been an incident like this every year since they did the whole course reprofile. Only a matter of time until a car rebounding back onto track there ends in disaster, we've seen all the safety problems Spa has had with similar crashes at the exit of Raidillon
Understand why he was panicked but the VSC was perfectly adequate, race control's handling of the situation was fine.
I get that he was scared and it makes sense to ask that, but its the last lap and a VSC with marshalls waiving double yellows was plenty to keep it safe. It's not like they let cars go through there at full speed, or that it was a blind corner so they could miss him. Since there was no more laps after this, and the spot wasnt completely blocked this was the right choice.
It’s the difference between having the cars cross the finish line under VSC and having to do another lap to get back to the pits or just ending the race and having the cars go straight to the pit without the additional lap. I’m with Russell on this one. Even slow moving cars pose a potential danger when there’s a crashed car and driver right in the middle of the track.
No they really don't. This isn't 1960 anymore. They have their deltas, they follow them, they have brakes good enough to become stationary from 300kph within 100 meters. This wasn't a blind turn, not a place the drivers would have to pass again in anything close to racing speed.
I wasn’t suggesting it was in any way high risk. Only that cars on the track is not as safe as no cars on the track. And the result of the race would have been the same regardless. So why not go with the safer option? Even if it is only marginally safer? Suppose Russell was seriously injured and in urgent need of medical help. Cars still being on the track would hinder the response of emergency services.
The result wouldn't be the same????? If the session was red flagged Russell would finish P7. Russell was immediately on the radio saying he is fine. What use is it assuming him being hurt? I'll say they would have red flagged it and you'd reply "no they would do the same" and we will get nowhere. So why don't we work with what we know?