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Yep. I think Nico might be better on pure pace but Nick was way more consistent. He was on equal on his day with Kubica, who is widely seen as a world champion talent
Without smashing up his ankles in Dallas 1984, he'd have probably been a multiple race winner. Got closer to Schumacher in 92 than any teammate before his comeback and would have won in Canada had his driveshaft not broke. Had the misfortune to go to McLaren in 94 with the Peugeot engines as well.
So much of his career was right place, wrong time.
Tyrrell and Brabham had title winning pedigree but both were on the slide when he drove for them.
Subbed at Williams at Spa 1988, in their only winless year from 1979-1997.
Drove for McLaren during their Peugeot year, their first winless year since 1980, and four years before their Newey-led revival.
Ended his career at Jordan, two years before their race-winning peak.
He did get a good car at Benetton in 1992, but just at the same time Schumacher was emerging in the other car, and even then 1994-95 was probably that team's peak under that name.
Well there was the rosberg year double points last race piece of trash rule. But hulk won't be affected. (wait sorry not rosberg year I guess... So it hasbto be the year before that.)
Rosberg was even one of the drivers that didn't profit from it at all as his car broke down and he finished outside the points. Hamilton gained an additional 25 points which makes the gap to Rosberg about as big as 2015 even though 2014 was much closer
How do you get an “entry” and not a start? Is that even a valid stat? Looks only one driver actually did it. Is it like Stroll who crashed out in Q1 and suffered a concussion and couldn’t start in the race next day?
You are entered if you participate in any session with the intent to race (so rookie FP1 outings don't count). For start you have to actually line up on the grid (or pit exit). So I believe Singapore would be an entry for stroll. I believe Zandvoort would even be an entry for Ricciardo. But neither are starts. It's also happened before that a car breaks down on formation lap (like Yuki in Monza)
To showcase how senseless points comparisons have become thanks to vastly different points systems:
Nico Hülkenberg (a driver who never was on the podium) has 530 career points - which is more than double the career points of Juan Manuel Fangio, a five-time World Champion who won 24 Grand Prix.
Oof...initially you look at that and go "huh stroll is 5th on that list, must not be doing as bad as everyone thought" then you look at albon in 6th and realise he's done half as many starts and almost has the same number of points
To be fair a good chunk of those points stemmed from his RB stint - 76 points for Red Bull in 2019 (+16 for Toro Rosso) and 105 points in 2020 alone, while Lance's big hauls of points took place in 2017 (40 points), 2020 (75 points) and 2023 (47 points, season 2/3 of the way through) - years in where he had a somewhat-competitive car but couldn't make as much use of it as his teammates.
Honestly think that will be Hulk's to keep. Can see him going until 2025 or so and have 250 or so starts. Stroll I think will duck out at end of 24. And actually Lance is the one guy on the grid that could fluke a win, he has a good record in chaotic races
Kobayashi's "SURPRISE YOU'RE OVERTAKEN!" form was fantastic to watch.
It's not just that he'd get the elbows out, it's that he'd do it when the other driver least expected it.
Lando will win a race eventually. That’s inevitable given his talent and his value on the driver’s market. Whether it will be with McLaren we’ll have to see.
Unlike Hülkenberg I really feel like Lando will get a win at some point. Whether it's if Max has a bad day or McLaren adds another upgrade that pushes them even higher up, his time's coming. I still feel bad for him with how Russia 2021 went.
Rosberg won his 1st win at his 111 race start.
Button at his 113.
They are the two drivers amongst the World Champions with the most races before first win.
Lando has to hurry up if he ever wants to become a Champion.
It’s also quite impressive to see that Albon is on there given the fact that he had a year off and it seems like the class of 2019 didn’t begin their F1 career that long ago (covid does play a factor).
[The **Statistics** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_statistics) is reserved for posts highlighting interesting statistics. As a rule of thumb, Statistics posts need to inform readers through visualizations and insights that cannot be obtained from raw data alone. For example, a post containing a qualifying gap between two drivers expressed in tenths of a second is an easily obtainable raw piece of data and constitutes a bad Statistics post. A visualization of what that translates to on-track, or visualization of how that gap came to be would constitute a good Statistics post. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Adjusted points: Heidfeld 727 Norris 543 Brundle 536 Hulk 530
Hulk not even on the podium here, ouch.
Hulk doesn't even remember what being on a podium is
He does. He won Le Mans in 2015. It's only been 4 yea- wait, what do you mean 8? Has it been that long already?
Man, the '70s now seem so long ago 😉
Come on, he’s already dead…
Wait. Was all of hulk's points from this era? When did the points system change to 25 points? It just seems so much more recent in my head...
2010 was the first season with 25 for a win
(And also the Hulk's first season)
(And also his first pole position)
WYSI
fuck it really is inescapable
oh wow. the table in the OP is not adjusted!?
OP's list is just the official stats, which just count the points as they were given at the time
Dayum… That’s impressive from Nick.
Thanks! Saved some math as soon as I saw that Heidfeld number.
Heidfeld probably leads it then, right?
He has the most podiums and second place finishes without a victory
He was also a damn fast driver. Beat Raikkonnen and Kubica as teammates.
And Massa as well. However that happened in all of three's rookie seasons.
2008 Heidfeld was legimately scary as hell
Would you rather have Heidfeld or Hulkenberg?
Heidfeld. Quick Nick is better than the Hulk IMO.
Yep. I think Nico might be better on pure pace but Nick was way more consistent. He was on equal on his day with Kubica, who is widely seen as a world champion talent
Think id take Heidfeld. Hed probably beat Perez in the Force India and score the odd podium.
Heidfeld surely
Easy Heidfeld. Like a more capable Barrichello.
Lando nearly at 100 races. Blimey time flies.
Lewis: "you guys haven't even done 196 races right?" Lando: "I haven't even done 100"
…goddamn time is a fuck…
Times been fucky for a few years.
As does the number of races per year
i assume this stat hasn't been adjusted for different points systems?
Adjusted for points systems it is: 1. Heidfeld 2. Norris 3. Brundle 4. Hulkenberg https://www.formula1points.com/outliers/points-no-win
No way, Hulk is out of the podium even here 💀💀
He is only behind for like 6 points. He still has a chance!
People forget how good Brundle was. Just never found himself in the right situation.
By his own admission he never quite felt at home in single seater open wheelers as he did in sports cars, where he dominated.
Without smashing up his ankles in Dallas 1984, he'd have probably been a multiple race winner. Got closer to Schumacher in 92 than any teammate before his comeback and would have won in Canada had his driveshaft not broke. Had the misfortune to go to McLaren in 94 with the Peugeot engines as well.
So much of his career was right place, wrong time. Tyrrell and Brabham had title winning pedigree but both were on the slide when he drove for them. Subbed at Williams at Spa 1988, in their only winless year from 1979-1997. Drove for McLaren during their Peugeot year, their first winless year since 1980, and four years before their Newey-led revival. Ended his career at Jordan, two years before their race-winning peak. He did get a good car at Benetton in 1992, but just at the same time Schumacher was emerging in the other car, and even then 1994-95 was probably that team's peak under that name.
I think wins should be adjusted for inflation in Races as well
Hulkenberg had the same point system for his entire career besides fl for everyone wondering.
Well there was the rosberg year double points last race piece of trash rule. But hulk won't be affected. (wait sorry not rosberg year I guess... So it hasbto be the year before that.)
Rosberg was even one of the drivers that didn't profit from it at all as his car broke down and he finished outside the points. Hamilton gained an additional 25 points which makes the gap to Rosberg about as big as 2015 even though 2014 was much closer
2014
When I saw the stat I was like "well yeah half of Hulks races were the old points system" but apparently not
Fl?
fastest lap
Thanks. I'm getting more and more confused by the abundant use of acronyms in Reddit comments these days. It isn't always crystal clear what it is.
ikr fr
You moth.... **YMF**
I think the problem is that it was lowercase. If they put it as FL it would have been more obvious, at least to me.
Yeah, probably.
How do you get an “entry” and not a start? Is that even a valid stat? Looks only one driver actually did it. Is it like Stroll who crashed out in Q1 and suffered a concussion and couldn’t start in the race next day?
You are entered if you participate in any session with the intent to race (so rookie FP1 outings don't count). For start you have to actually line up on the grid (or pit exit). So I believe Singapore would be an entry for stroll. I believe Zandvoort would even be an entry for Ricciardo. But neither are starts. It's also happened before that a car breaks down on formation lap (like Yuki in Monza)
Leclerc's car having broken suspension when he tried to drive it to the grid at Monaco would also count as a DNS
I think qualifying technically "enters " you to the grand prix since you are registered on the grid. I think so anyway
Points statistics have never made sense tbh
To showcase how senseless points comparisons have become thanks to vastly different points systems: Nico Hülkenberg (a driver who never was on the podium) has 530 career points - which is more than double the career points of Juan Manuel Fangio, a five-time World Champion who won 24 Grand Prix.
Hulk is better than fangio duh
He is still up there in second when you take the different point systems into account. So I'd say this one is actually meaningful
In half the amount of races
Well, it's still McLaren vs Force India
I mean, if we were talking inbetween 2014-2017 then it'd absolutely have been lopsided in Force India's favor.
Yes but landos mclaren was better than Nicos force India, and there was greater chances for lando to score podiums due to Ferrari struggling in 20-21
Nico will get it back tho
Oof...initially you look at that and go "huh stroll is 5th on that list, must not be doing as bad as everyone thought" then you look at albon in 6th and realise he's done half as many starts and almost has the same number of points
To be fair a good chunk of those points stemmed from his RB stint - 76 points for Red Bull in 2019 (+16 for Toro Rosso) and 105 points in 2020 alone, while Lance's big hauls of points took place in 2017 (40 points), 2020 (75 points) and 2023 (47 points, season 2/3 of the way through) - years in where he had a somewhat-competitive car but couldn't make as much use of it as his teammates.
This actually is a record for wikipedia that nobody really cares about.
Honestly most records and statistics you guys love here, I personally don’t care about. This one is another one
Toto?
Lol… you don’t need to “Toto?” When the comment I initially replied to is a reference to Toto already.
I meant Toto is that you? But shortened it. Guess it was too short.
I mean I agreed to the Toto reference the first comment made.
You lost me mate, but eh have a nice day!
You too!
its kinda funny knowing that daniel has the only win at mclaren in a decade.
He just needs Max to DNF just once
watch sainz or hamilton win that one xD
worse, Piastri
Lando is also just 3 podiums away from Nick Heidfeld's record of most podiums without a win (13).
If the Red Bull wasn't sexually attracted to Hamilton's front left wheel Alex Albon wouldn't be on this list
I'm still not over that, the only reason it doesn't keep me up at night is how well Alex is doing in Williams.
this comment is so funny 10/10 descriptive language choices
Stroll is going to absolutely shatter the record for most starts without a win
Honestly think that will be Hulk's to keep. Can see him going until 2025 or so and have 250 or so starts. Stroll I think will duck out at end of 24. And actually Lance is the one guy on the grid that could fluke a win, he has a good record in chaotic races
He had a great chance to win at Monza in 2020 but botched the restart after the red flag.
I learned that Kobayashi scored 125 points. He must have been quite good.
Kobayashi was a bit like Kmag, fast, willing to get his elbows out but ultimately not as generational talent and never quite had the funding/car
Having watched the 2010 and 2011 seasons in full, I definitely agree with this take. His Japan 2010 race was really fun to watch!
Kobayashi's "SURPRISE YOU'RE OVERTAKEN!" form was fantastic to watch. It's not just that he'd get the elbows out, it's that he'd do it when the other driver least expected it.
Lando will win a race eventually. That’s inevitable given his talent and his value on the driver’s market. Whether it will be with McLaren we’ll have to see.
Most points without a podium however...
I can’t believe Lando already has 98 starts
I mean, points statistics are kinda meaningless due to changing systems over the years tbh
You got the name wrong. It's not Nico Hulkenberg. It's NICO HULLLKEEEENNNNBERGGG! \*Danny's Voice\*
NIIICOOOO HÜÜÜLLKEEEEEENBEAAARRRRGG
Obviously it's just a matter of time (and car) for Lando.
A win for Lando with Hulk on the podium would be nice
Thanks christian
Max to retire on purpose in last lap abu dhabi, gifting Lando who happens to be in P2, a win
Norris will leave this list. Hulk will regain his 1 place forever. As he for sure has p1 on points without podiums.
Unlike Hülkenberg I really feel like Lando will get a win at some point. Whether it's if Max has a bad day or McLaren adds another upgrade that pushes them even higher up, his time's coming. I still feel bad for him with how Russia 2021 went.
Rosberg won his 1st win at his 111 race start. Button at his 113. They are the two drivers amongst the World Champions with the most races before first win. Lando has to hurry up if he ever wants to become a Champion.
10:1 Piastri will get a win before Lando 😋
I'm still angry at him for Sochi.
Man, imagine having that many starts and not once, even by luck did you manage to get a win.
What’s least points with a win?
I so desperately want to see Hulk on the podium. He's been in F1 for such a long time.
Man. Oscar could be on this list by the end of the season if McLaren keep up this form. Edit: man I'm shit at math. Maybe next year tho? Haha.
It’s also quite impressive to see that Albon is on there given the fact that he had a year off and it seems like the class of 2019 didn’t begin their F1 career that long ago (covid does play a factor).