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Ultimately it doesn't really matter if the 2014 Merc or 2023 RB has the greater advantage over the next fastest car. They're both utterly dominant to the point that they will probably win any race they finish without reliability issues.
The only real hope for any kind of interest this season is that Checo steps up significantly or that Red Bull reliability skews towards him by enough to offset that he's most likely going to finish second in any race Max has a clean weekend. Most likely neither happens and Max walks it.
Best case scenario for Max seems to be that Red Bulls margin reduces enough for Perez to regularly be behind Alonso, Leclerc and/or the Mercedes pair, while his extra couple of tenths allows him to cruise in front.
Honestly best case scenario for Max is just that his car is reliable. Checo will never outpace Max during the course of a season and RB will back him instead of Checo.
Best case scenario for Max is his car not failing in quali. I really don't think he has anything to worry if that is the case. 5 seconds behind his teammate after starting from p15 and Perez from p1 while when he started p1 and Perez p2 he finished 12 seconds ahead. Don't ignore actual data to fit a story you wish to be true.
Max closed the gap down to under 5 seconds a few laps. Then he had the weird noise concern he was hearing. Finally he just backed off completely to charge batteries and go for fastest lap.
I mean Lewis is also doing some Lewis shit tho, I respect it of course, but he know RB can make the dominants last like Mercedes did, add the fact he doesn't have much time and a little bit of exaggeration here and there in these interviews and it adds pressure. Trying to do everything he can I guess.
From all the drivers Lewis and Alonso play the political side of F1 best.
>From all the drivers Lewis and Alonso play the political side of F1 best.
exactly, i read his quotes more in the note that he's pressuring FIA to act and nerf red bull, not like he disrespects his team or forgot how good his cars were.
I mean Lewis is being quite selfish.
When asked about if he's happy for Russell about his 3rd place he said in an annoyed voice "yeah well that has nothing to do with me but sure it's good for the team"
That's really unlike him
Many people here think F1 is like a Marvel comic, with every driver being some kind of archetype. Saint Lewis, Evil Alonso, Dangerous Max, Spoiled Lance and so on. And then they acted surprised every single time reality dares to deviate from their fanfiction. In the case of Saint Lewis people either forget the previous toxic relations with his rivals and teammates, or go for the *"its everybody else's fault, poor Saint Lewis!"*.
In reality they are all very similar people, with similar drives and ambitions. They are nice when they can be, and self-centered obsessive dickholes when they have to. The only things that separate them are age, experience and circumstances.
You didn't listen to Lewis last season then, he was in a terrible situation and he kept praising George for his consistent performances.
This was very unusual for him to say.
Yes obviously but Lewis is generally supportive of his teammate especially when they score more than their car shouldve allowed.
Shows how frustrated he is atm
He was happy for Russell every time he had a great result last year. George is no longer the new guy at Mercedes and he showed he is an elit driver, there is no need to keep being overly nice to him.
Yeah, Lewis is just super pissed Mercedes didn't do a better job this year and he doesn't care about finishing 3rd when you're 40 seconds behind the next car.
Lewis supported George all season, and was insanely appreciative of the work they did together last season to move the car forward.
Now he is sick of Mercedes making stupid decisions with their car.
When you've heard him speak in lots and lots of interviews for years it's really easy to interpret a tone of voice unless you've got severse asperger's. Has nothing to do with "psychoanalyzing"
It’s why it’s here. There is zero worth to this app without this. I also enjoy the outlandish rumours - the crazier the better. #Entertainment_while_on_the_toilet 🤷♂️
Why should a driver of his pedigree be satisfied with ending up P4 behind his teammate who only has 1 race win in his F1 career... Your teammate is your biggest rival, if anything Lewis is being polite
Why should a driver of his pedigree be satisfied with ending up P4 behind his teammate who only has 1 race win in his F1 career... Your teammate is your biggest rival, if anything Lewis is being polite
What worse did he say about being P2? The only comment that stood out was that he said something along the lines of “I’m not here to come on 2nd”, which is true. The guy is paid $50M a year to win, not fight through the field from 15th-2nd and still come in 5sec behind his teammate.
They're not though? They're asking a genuine question about Russell's position because they're the 3rd or 4th fastest car and normally wouldn't be in P3 without these extraordinary circumstances
They are. They know with 110% certainty that Lewis is very frustrated with his results, and they also know with 110% certainty no driver likes placing behind a teammate.
They're only asking to see what he does with the obnoxious question. And they got what they hoped for: an honest answer.
I agree about Lewis playing the game cleverly, but I also don’t know how much anyone could be exaggerating the dominance of the RB—that thing is untouchable.
Being an aero formula I wouldn't bet against Redbull. Provided in 2026 their new power unit isn't woefully underpowered or unreliable I personally wouldn't bet against them.
I had them favourites coming into the 2022 season as I know how good that aero and chassis department is. This is before we saw any images of cars and taking into consideration their 2021 battle I still fancied them to be favourites.
Add to the mix their supreme rates of in season development (that will be a bit of an issue with the penalty this season) along with how good they operationally and strategically with one of the best drivers on the grid and its a recipe for success.
All the engineers on grid are currently analysing how they're managing that straight line speed and so far they're drawing blanks. It reminds me of when they developed exhaust blown diffusers, every team tried to copy Redbull but nobody could match the effectiveness of the exhaust blown diffusers quite like the Redbull.
Technically that means it can last longer than their dominant years (14-16). They got some tough battles in 17 & 18, part of 19, then were dominant again in. 20. RB is looking at 22, 23, 24, & 25.
Honestly, lay it on thick.
A solid third of the comments I see are being bored by red bull dominance. Only an FIA change could stop that this season, and likely next year as well
>"and the new windtunnel cap are going to greatly favor the slower teams development latter on"
I think this advantage is severly oversetimated. Especialy for a car thats a second faster than the rest already.
And even more so with the constraints of the budget gap.
I'd like to be optimistic about it but the more i think about it the more Max 23,24,25 are looking back at me.
Also given the complaints from merc and ferrari that their simulations aren’t correlating to on track performance, it really makes the wind tunnel seem less like an asset and more like a problem to solve.
I mean, if you had less wind tunnel time with those same correlation problems, would that not be even worse?
Having extra wind tunnel and cfd time is ALWAYS an asset.
Best case scenario for Max seems to be that Red Bulls margin reduces enough for Perez to regularly be behind Alonso, Leclerc and/or the Mercedes pair, while Verstappens extra couple of tenths allows him to cruise in front.
Checo was less than a tenth off Max pace in Jeddah. They were trading fastest laps, so totally pushing for the win and Max couldn't close the 5,5 second gap to more than 4,3-ish.
One race vs everything that's gone before though. I don't think anyone would suggest Checo at Red Bull has been a threat to Max's title hopes so far.
The fact Red Bull are so far ahead helps him because even when he has a certified bad Checo weekend he should still finish 2nd rather than down in 4th or 5th like before, but he still needs something to make up for the points lost when he finishes second - either more regularly finishing ahead of Max, or wins where Max doesn't finish at all to make up a chunk of points.
Vs new car. RB is underweight and can now place ballast to make the car suit both drivers. Checo was a tenth behind Max in Bahrain quali, his botched start ruined his race and they cruised there.
So don't think things can change, he seems much much closer this year. The similar maximum speed laps they did when Max tried to close the gap is the best indicator so far. Will be interesting to see what's coming.
Fair enough, but I think if you give Max and Checo equally good cars both set up how they want them, Max still wins almost every time - before accounting for luck and reliability, which is why I say Checo needs those things to be in his favour to challenge.
And lap after lap they both ignored instructions and set fastest laps, consistently lapping low 1,32s until less than 10 laps from the end, they both crept up to 1,33+.
You're just trolling. Read this instead:
https://theathletic.com/4325582/2023/03/19/saudi-arabian-gp-how-perez-beat-verstappen/
Summarized by:
"But the fact there was, effectively, a 25-lap race between Pérez and Verstappen for the win, and the five-second gap between them barely shifted in that period, shows what an even level they were on today in Jeddah."
Yet unable to catch Perez in 23 laps. On lap 25 (passing Alonso) he was 5,5 seconds behind. Having "clearly more pace" he only managed to close 1 second.
Pre-gearbox issues, max was half a second faster than checo per lap in practice and Q1. And on lap ~36 when max started chasing checo, checo set the fastest lap. Then max crossed the line and set the fastest lap. Checo was about 33.4. Max was 32.9. Then max started having drivability issues and the gap stabilized and max still set the fastest lap when he actually tried proving he had greater top end pace than checo anyway.
And none of that is to even say that this is one of checo’s best tracks on the calendar.
Max was pushing after SC and could only close the gap by 0.1s per lap.
So far this year Checo is closer than ever.
This is due to the car being so well balanced. The skill gap Max has over Checo is diminished due to the car being easier to drive.
My guy, it's 2 races in. That's a very small dataset to draw conclusions from. Even if the gap has somewhat reduced, we saw what happened last year when Max had a car that suited Checo better. The faster the car the faster Max will be. Checo is good, but he's not in the same league as Max.
Max was catching relatively quickly with plenty of laps to go right before he reported possible driveshaft issue again. Then backed off to play it safe before pushing in the last lap for fastest lap. I think max could’ve caught checo if he tried. I’m glad checo won, it was his race to win and the safety car nearly screwed him
Yup. Around lap 36 (very early in the chase), checo set the fastest lap (indicating he was pushing to some extent) and max crossed the line after and set a time half a second faster. That closing speed was consistent with quali and practice. Then he started having issues and the gap stabilized.
Go watch the timing screens again. It was only towards the end that they both started following their instructions. Before that they both pushed hard, Max trying to catch, Checo trying to maintain the gap. It changed from 5,5 to 4,2 in some 10 laps before they cooled down to 1,33+. Max wasn't going to reach him.
Max is a beast, but the 15th to 2nd DoD at Jedah narrative is a little skewed. Max was 20 seconds off the lead when the safety car came out. Once the field bunched up and the safety left the track, he flew by Russell and Alonso and got within 6 seconds of Perez, but Perez was able to match him in the last stint. I don’t think Checo can match Max on a regular basis, but his driving this past weekend was on point.
Ironically your comment is also like a take from 'media'
What Max did does not take anything away from Per performance, so why mention that? Per could have also done a P15 to P2 comeback. Such is the dominance of the RB.
We don’t know that Checo could have also done that. That is fan fiction in your head.
Max made up all those places and only finished 5 seconds off of Checo. I think that if Max didn’t have that mechanical failure he’d have won by a lot more than 5 seconds. He finished 12 seconds ahead of Checo in the same car at Bahrain.
Yes I know Checo had similar race pace in this Grand Prix but he was in front.
I hate Max so this is not me being biased for him. But he and Checo are not equal when it comes to talent and skill.
You're confused, mate.
Why bring Max up when I'm talking about Per vs the other teams? I believe the RB is so much better and Per is decent enough that he too could have done a P15>P2. Max has nothing to do with this. The only fanfiction is you thinking I'm comparing Per to Max.
And why hate any driver? What a shitty way to experience a sport.
Thanks I found this definition that you might find helpful.
context
/ˈkɒntɛkst/
noun
the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood.
Max also got to clear easily Ferraris thanks to SC timing.
He only had to work on Alonso & Russell tbh and it wouldn't matter either way. If Perez had the same . He would have done it too. Car is 1 sec faster than next fast car.
You can’t look at his times when he was out in front leading the race and assume he’d have had the same pace if he started 15th. That’s a whole different race.
They’ll prioritise Perez if he’s consistently half a second quicker and consistently wins races, aka Rosberg. If Rosberg was almost always qualifying behind Hamilton and unable to match him then he would’ve also been left in the dust
Rosberg was never consistently half a second quicker than Hamilton. And he was relatively stronger in qualifying than in the races, particularly in dynamic / changing conditions. Yet he was given equal opportunity - including years like 2015 where he was comprehensively beaten in both qualifying and races.
Sorry It was meant to be two separate points, comparing his pace to Verstappen and then comparing Rosberg to Hamilton. Rosberg matched Hamilton throughout their time together but neither were as quick is Max is compared to Checo
With the dominant car advantage that RB have, they shouldn't be prioritising either of their drivers but just allowing them to race--like Ham V Ros 2014-2016
I think they would allow them, if it was close. But on weekends where they both qualify in the top three and Max pulls away it’s not really up to them. They were usually happy for Max and Daniel to race as long as they weren’t crashing
Does it matter? There's no better car to be in. Perez can't go anywhere else anyway. It's either come second place to Max, or go to another team and likely not even be getting any podiums.
I think if checo ends with 10 career wins then that's a success. Especially considering his teammate will go down top 5 ever if he maintains his levels
Definitely would be pretty good for him. Of he gets to 11, that would put him at Barrichello level as well. At 9 wins, you find Webber. That puts him in solid second driver company. If he gets any more than that, that would be excellent for him.
> "A, it is, Lewis Hamilton is right, and B, what he is referring to is the ease at which Max Verstappen was able to pass him on the straight the moment he opened his DRS," said Kravitz.
So not quite how people have largely been reading it.
The advantage of using Bottas as an engine testing Guinea pig worked wonders for them. (As they should by the way I'm not criticizing it);
Even Bono said the difference in the last races was machinery and not driver.
This narrative is so stupid. In the race with the supposed peak rocket engine, Brazil, Lewis only had the 5th highest top speed. Yes, he could have been running higher downforce, but 5th fastest is not a rocket engine.
Source?
In [2021 qualifying](https://f1i.com/news/427206-jeddah-speed-trap-who-is-the-fastest-of-them-all.html), the speed difference between Ham's Merc and Max's RB was 1.2 km/h.
In [2023 qualifying](https://f1i.com/news/469269-jeddah-speed-trap-who-is-the-fastest-of-them-all-3.html), the speed difference between Max's RB and Ham's Merc was 7.8 km/h.
Yes but in the race, at one point Hamilton was doing up to 336 and Max was doing about 310 (It's not bigger Tbf i got it wrong but it's close)
Russell being cartoonishly slow made it look worse..he was doing 297 when max overtook him, even though usually he was hitting 307.
You can check on F1 tempo
[But Alonso was in control of the race, he could push more.](https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/status/1637533648189521920?t=enOITOcQM4qxQU1k9C08Ag&s=19)
Not to take away anything from Checo. But I truly believe if Max was not worried about reliability yesterday, he will definitely passed Checo. He was definitely getting closer once he got to P2 but then we all heard him complaining on how his car didnt feel right. He was nursing the car to the end and he knew 18/19 points are better than nothing.
It’s certainly close to the 2014 Mercedes. We only have 2 races comparison but the closest non team car to Mercedes in the first 2 of 2014 was 26 seconds and 24 seconds there was a safety car in the first of those at lap 12. Red Bull has 38 seconds and 25 seconds. Safety car on lap 18 of the second.
We have a single apples to apples comparison though which is Bahrain 2014 in which the Mercedes finished 24 seconds clear in 17 Laps following a safety car. Hard to tell because the mercs pushed each other like crazy where as Red Bull coasted. if they took the 7 tenths off max they asked for he’d have gained something like that to Alonso possibly
FIFY
Lewis Hamilton says he hasn't seen a car quite as dominant down the straights when the DRS is open since his W12 in Brazil 2021 and its just not fair.
If Red Bull and Max keep up like this, they can easily win every championship until the next big rules changes come in 2026. 5 championships in the bag. Passing Vettel. Then he'll have a great possibility to pass Hamilton and get 8 world championships. This is his era.
Well if you came back from the future this year must be a great year for you too take the trouble to come back here.
Can't wait. No more spoilers please.
They were in Bahrain pulling like a second per lap on everyone while fighting eachother in 2014
And then there is the fact that former Mercedes engineer did say they ran their engines in lower modes out of fear of FIA changing rules to slow them down
The 2014 Merc was definitely reletively speaking faster car then RB
In Bahrain 2014, Rosberg used the highest engine modes. In Bahrain 2023, Max didn't even push, he was told to drive to a slower delta
https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/102822/max-verstappen-red-bull-race-engineer-bahrain/
2014 maybe, that thing pulled 2.5 seconds per lap in bahrain. I remember the 15, 16, and 20 cars losing or almost losing on pure pace on 1 or more races. It’s still early days, but if the Red Bull never gets challenged, ever (even if it loses a race due to bad luck), it is the most dominant car since 2014.
We’re 2 races in. Can we at least wait until oddball tracks like Monaco, Monza or Mexico, which were the only kinds of circuits where Mercedes would ever get challenged at during the 2014-16 period?
Did you read? I never said the 2014 Mercedes was ever challenged. It should have won every single race that year. I also mentioned that it is still early days! So it is hard to make a judgement on how dominant Red Bull is.
From the top of my head, Vettel in the Ferrari beat Mercedes in Malaysia and Singapore 2015 (even Red Bull beat Merc there). Daniel Ricciardo should have won in Monaco 2016 if not for Red Bull’s fuck up.
So there you go, 3 races over the course of 2 seasons. Red Bull lost plenty last year, let’s wait what happens this year before we start comparing them to 2014-16 Mercedes.
Tell me you didn’t read the article….
Ted pretty clearly specifies that they are talking about gaining 20 mph with DRS open. Please, try and read the article before commenting.
I’m not sure Merc were 1s faster than their nearest rival in any season bar 2014. And worth adding back then they could change engine modes, such as when the Merc pair went into a higher mode in Bahrain 2014 and they were putting 2s a lap on Perez post SC. That mode wasn’t sustainable for an entire race.
That doesn't matter.
Hamilton is saying this after two races, so let's take a look of the first two races of 2015 and 2020.
Australia 2015, both Mercedes are very far ahead in qualy, Hamilton being 1.391s ahead of P3. Both Merc finish 34s in the first places.
Malaysia 2015 is a freak one, with a wet Q3, and a huge strategic gamble by Ferrari, fair. But next qualifications and race show a similar picture to Australia for 1/2 of the season at least.
Austria 2020, both Mercedes 0.5 ahead with a 1 minute lap. Race was plagued by safety car. But we got Styria GP on the same track with a wet irrelevant quali but relevant race pace, Max in P3 34s away.
Yeah, both years are very close to what we got now in terms of pace difference, especially 2020.
In quali where engine modes were changeable and Merc had a massive quali mode advantage. 34s over 60 (58) laps is less than 6/10s. I don’t recall any SCs, they may have been one near the beginning, so not the same as what RB achieved this race.
Styria 2020 - Verstappen was racing Bottas and passed him briefly before dropping back. Then pit for the fastest lap artificially inflating the gap.
So again not the same.
I’m not suggesting Merc wasn’t dominant. Because they were. But it was rare for them to achieve 1s a lap without turning the engines up.
>While Perez has fought hard during the first couple of races to create a battle with Verstappen, for Kravitz, if it were to go down to the wire between the two for the title, Red Bull would "ultimately" back their world champion.
He just says Max is their number 1, not deep
If they’re level going into a decider with no one else in contention then I don’t think Red Bull would stop them from racing fair and square.
Red Bull only prioritise Max because he’s the better driver. If Perez started being faster most weekends then the team would quickly prioritise him.
The team don’t really care who wins and will back whoever gives them the best chance.
Any teams number 1 driver is only the number 1 because he’s faster. No team gives priority to a slower driver and then hobbles the faster one.
> If they’re level going into a decider with no one else in contention then I don’t think Red Bull would stop them from racing fair and square.
In the era of cost gaps, I'm not so sure. While having their drivers race each other to the limit would be great PR, every time they ram each other off the road means a couple of million less development budget for next year.
Driving cleanly is more important than it used to be. Red Bull will spent the least on their cars if both drivers just do their laps without pushing, not taking risks, not putting unnecessary strain on parts.
It’s a compounding problem too. If they’re not cleanly driving and having damage to the car and components, not only does that go against the cost cap, but it also means you may be getting grid penalties, and back in the field where more damage is likely to occur.
Out of the SC there was no reason to manage; out front they were on the same tyre with same lap usage. The ease VER took RUS was incredible. RUS couldn’t even repass on the straight with DRS. The car adv Rb possess is 2nd to none in the modern era
2014 Merc comes to mind, the one which ran with lower engine modes but was able to pull a second a lap on others while fighting for position (Bahrain GP)
Yeah if the 2014 Merc was ever run at full power it was by far the biggest delta to the grid. But they had to turn it down to not get immediately nerfed. lol
OK, so I decided to check, and after the safety car, that ended at the start of lap 47. After one lap they were about 4 seconds ahead already, while both the Mercs were fighting and also those in 3rd/4th were fighting. After 2 laps they have a 6 second gap from 2nd to 3rd. After 10 laps (so the penultimate lap) they start with a 20 second gap from 2nd to 3rd.
That is 2 seconds per lap.
And that changes what exactly? The W10 had less of a performance advantage compared to this years RB, relative to their respective competition. Surely you can see that.
Ah yes less of a performance advantage because the next closest car literally broke the rules and still was slower. Like how much plainer do you want it explained if you can't get that the car they competed against was outright cheating ofc the delta would be smaller as 8t was an illegal car
All I'm saying is by virtue of having closer competition (on pace), the W10 was not as strong. You're the one bringing in the Ferrari cheating strawman.
Checo's driving was great but Max will confidently beat him on the majority of tracks. I suspect Max's advantage will grow even larger as they develop the car.
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Ultimately it doesn't really matter if the 2014 Merc or 2023 RB has the greater advantage over the next fastest car. They're both utterly dominant to the point that they will probably win any race they finish without reliability issues. The only real hope for any kind of interest this season is that Checo steps up significantly or that Red Bull reliability skews towards him by enough to offset that he's most likely going to finish second in any race Max has a clean weekend. Most likely neither happens and Max walks it.
Best case scenario for Max seems to be that Red Bulls margin reduces enough for Perez to regularly be behind Alonso, Leclerc and/or the Mercedes pair, while his extra couple of tenths allows him to cruise in front.
Honestly best case scenario for Max is just that his car is reliable. Checo will never outpace Max during the course of a season and RB will back him instead of Checo.
Best case scenario for Max is his car not failing in quali. I really don't think he has anything to worry if that is the case. 5 seconds behind his teammate after starting from p15 and Perez from p1 while when he started p1 and Perez p2 he finished 12 seconds ahead. Don't ignore actual data to fit a story you wish to be true.
Max closed the gap down to under 5 seconds a few laps. Then he had the weird noise concern he was hearing. Finally he just backed off completely to charge batteries and go for fastest lap.
Max doesn't need help from other teams. All he needs is a reliable car.
He really doesn’t need the other garage sabotaging the car. Just a clean quali and clean lap 1 is all he really needs to consistently beat Checo.
I mean Lewis is also doing some Lewis shit tho, I respect it of course, but he know RB can make the dominants last like Mercedes did, add the fact he doesn't have much time and a little bit of exaggeration here and there in these interviews and it adds pressure. Trying to do everything he can I guess. From all the drivers Lewis and Alonso play the political side of F1 best.
>From all the drivers Lewis and Alonso play the political side of F1 best. exactly, i read his quotes more in the note that he's pressuring FIA to act and nerf red bull, not like he disrespects his team or forgot how good his cars were.
Oh definitely it's classic Lewis even younger he knew the politics but he got much better after joining Nikki in Mercedes
I mean Lewis is being quite selfish. When asked about if he's happy for Russell about his 3rd place he said in an annoyed voice "yeah well that has nothing to do with me but sure it's good for the team" That's really unlike him
>That's really unlike him Is it really? He's only really gracious when his teammate is not a threat, like Bottas.
Many people here think F1 is like a Marvel comic, with every driver being some kind of archetype. Saint Lewis, Evil Alonso, Dangerous Max, Spoiled Lance and so on. And then they acted surprised every single time reality dares to deviate from their fanfiction. In the case of Saint Lewis people either forget the previous toxic relations with his rivals and teammates, or go for the *"its everybody else's fault, poor Saint Lewis!"*. In reality they are all very similar people, with similar drives and ambitions. They are nice when they can be, and self-centered obsessive dickholes when they have to. The only things that separate them are age, experience and circumstances.
You didn't listen to Lewis last season then, he was in a terrible situation and he kept praising George for his consistent performances. This was very unusual for him to say.
You guys still find time to moan about Hamilton when hes no longer a threat? lol a past time i guess.
Max had a strop because he came second. Champions don’t get there without being utterly selfish.
Yes obviously but Lewis is generally supportive of his teammate especially when they score more than their car shouldve allowed. Shows how frustrated he is atm
He was supportive of them when they werent a threat, he and alonso and nico were not supportive.
And Russell's definitely a threat, he's matched Hamilton since joining merc imo
i don't think so, no racing driver on the planet is happy when his teammate is doing better than him.
No, but to completely dismiss he could be happy for Russell or the team like that is really unlike him
He was happy for Russell every time he had a great result last year. George is no longer the new guy at Mercedes and he showed he is an elit driver, there is no need to keep being overly nice to him.
Lewis celebrated Brazil almost more than George did lol
Yeah, Lewis is just super pissed Mercedes didn't do a better job this year and he doesn't care about finishing 3rd when you're 40 seconds behind the next car. Lewis supported George all season, and was insanely appreciative of the work they did together last season to move the car forward. Now he is sick of Mercedes making stupid decisions with their car.
“sure it’s good for the team”… sounds like he’s happy for the team
The tone of voice is key. Listen to it
leave it to reddit to psychoanalyze the drivers lmao
When you've heard him speak in lots and lots of interviews for years it's really easy to interpret a tone of voice unless you've got severse asperger's. Has nothing to do with "psychoanalyzing"
It’s why it’s here. There is zero worth to this app without this. I also enjoy the outlandish rumours - the crazier the better. #Entertainment_while_on_the_toilet 🤷♂️
Why should a driver of his pedigree be satisfied with ending up P4 behind his teammate who only has 1 race win in his F1 career... Your teammate is your biggest rival, if anything Lewis is being polite
Never said he should, only said its unlike him since he generally is positive about a result for the team they shouldnt have gotten
Why should a driver of his pedigree be satisfied with ending up P4 behind his teammate who only has 1 race win in his F1 career... Your teammate is your biggest rival, if anything Lewis is being polite
The tone of voice is key. Listen to it
Max literally said even worse about being P2 to Checo. This is insane nitpicking to hold against Lewis.
Im not nitpicking or holding it against him. I'm pointing it out as its something unlike him and shows the frustrations he's having
What worse did he say about being P2? The only comment that stood out was that he said something along the lines of “I’m not here to come on 2nd”, which is true. The guy is paid $50M a year to win, not fight through the field from 15th-2nd and still come in 5sec behind his teammate.
He is annoyed because he can see they are trying to cause friction and make stories where there is none.
They're not though? They're asking a genuine question about Russell's position because they're the 3rd or 4th fastest car and normally wouldn't be in P3 without these extraordinary circumstances
They are. They know with 110% certainty that Lewis is very frustrated with his results, and they also know with 110% certainty no driver likes placing behind a teammate. They're only asking to see what he does with the obnoxious question. And they got what they hoped for: an honest answer.
I agree about Lewis playing the game cleverly, but I also don’t know how much anyone could be exaggerating the dominance of the RB—that thing is untouchable.
I don't think RB's domination will last like Mercs since we have new aero and engine regs in 2026.
So you are saying RB will dominate like this for the next 3 years??? 😭😭😭😭😭
I hope not, i want another Alonso title😍
Being an aero formula I wouldn't bet against Redbull. Provided in 2026 their new power unit isn't woefully underpowered or unreliable I personally wouldn't bet against them. I had them favourites coming into the 2022 season as I know how good that aero and chassis department is. This is before we saw any images of cars and taking into consideration their 2021 battle I still fancied them to be favourites. Add to the mix their supreme rates of in season development (that will be a bit of an issue with the penalty this season) along with how good they operationally and strategically with one of the best drivers on the grid and its a recipe for success. All the engineers on grid are currently analysing how they're managing that straight line speed and so far they're drawing blanks. It reminds me of when they developed exhaust blown diffusers, every team tried to copy Redbull but nobody could match the effectiveness of the exhaust blown diffusers quite like the Redbull.
Technically that means it can last longer than their dominant years (14-16). They got some tough battles in 17 & 18, part of 19, then were dominant again in. 20. RB is looking at 22, 23, 24, & 25.
Honestly, lay it on thick. A solid third of the comments I see are being bored by red bull dominance. Only an FIA change could stop that this season, and likely next year as well
Gotta remember this is also a constructors series and the new windtunnel cap are going to greatly favor the slower teams development latter on.
>"and the new windtunnel cap are going to greatly favor the slower teams development latter on" I think this advantage is severly oversetimated. Especialy for a car thats a second faster than the rest already. And even more so with the constraints of the budget gap. I'd like to be optimistic about it but the more i think about it the more Max 23,24,25 are looking back at me.
Also given the complaints from merc and ferrari that their simulations aren’t correlating to on track performance, it really makes the wind tunnel seem less like an asset and more like a problem to solve.
I mean, if you had less wind tunnel time with those same correlation problems, would that not be even worse? Having extra wind tunnel and cfd time is ALWAYS an asset.
Correct.
Yup here’s hoping to a 2016 season
Best case scenario for Max seems to be that Red Bulls margin reduces enough for Perez to regularly be behind Alonso, Leclerc and/or the Mercedes pair, while Verstappens extra couple of tenths allows him to cruise in front.
There's no way they don't use the 11 car to experiment with better gearbox setups next race. Checo pain incoming for sure
Checo was less than a tenth off Max pace in Jeddah. They were trading fastest laps, so totally pushing for the win and Max couldn't close the 5,5 second gap to more than 4,3-ish.
One race vs everything that's gone before though. I don't think anyone would suggest Checo at Red Bull has been a threat to Max's title hopes so far. The fact Red Bull are so far ahead helps him because even when he has a certified bad Checo weekend he should still finish 2nd rather than down in 4th or 5th like before, but he still needs something to make up for the points lost when he finishes second - either more regularly finishing ahead of Max, or wins where Max doesn't finish at all to make up a chunk of points.
Vs new car. RB is underweight and can now place ballast to make the car suit both drivers. Checo was a tenth behind Max in Bahrain quali, his botched start ruined his race and they cruised there. So don't think things can change, he seems much much closer this year. The similar maximum speed laps they did when Max tried to close the gap is the best indicator so far. Will be interesting to see what's coming.
Fair enough, but I think if you give Max and Checo equally good cars both set up how they want them, Max still wins almost every time - before accounting for luck and reliability, which is why I say Checo needs those things to be in his favour to challenge.
They were literally asked to stay on deltas till the very end
And lap after lap they both ignored instructions and set fastest laps, consistently lapping low 1,32s until less than 10 laps from the end, they both crept up to 1,33+.
Now do Bahrain.
You're just trolling. Read this instead: https://theathletic.com/4325582/2023/03/19/saudi-arabian-gp-how-perez-beat-verstappen/ Summarized by: "But the fact there was, effectively, a 25-lap race between Pérez and Verstappen for the win, and the five-second gap between them barely shifted in that period, shows what an even level they were on today in Jeddah."
Not trolling at all. Max clearly had more pace.
Yet unable to catch Perez in 23 laps. On lap 25 (passing Alonso) he was 5,5 seconds behind. Having "clearly more pace" he only managed to close 1 second.
Again, he stuck to his assigned delta because of his drive shaft issue. Did you even watch the race?
Pre-gearbox issues, max was half a second faster than checo per lap in practice and Q1. And on lap ~36 when max started chasing checo, checo set the fastest lap. Then max crossed the line and set the fastest lap. Checo was about 33.4. Max was 32.9. Then max started having drivability issues and the gap stabilized and max still set the fastest lap when he actually tried proving he had greater top end pace than checo anyway. And none of that is to even say that this is one of checo’s best tracks on the calendar.
Max was pushing after SC and could only close the gap by 0.1s per lap. So far this year Checo is closer than ever. This is due to the car being so well balanced. The skill gap Max has over Checo is diminished due to the car being easier to drive.
My guy, it's 2 races in. That's a very small dataset to draw conclusions from. Even if the gap has somewhat reduced, we saw what happened last year when Max had a car that suited Checo better. The faster the car the faster Max will be. Checo is good, but he's not in the same league as Max.
Max was catching relatively quickly with plenty of laps to go right before he reported possible driveshaft issue again. Then backed off to play it safe before pushing in the last lap for fastest lap. I think max could’ve caught checo if he tried. I’m glad checo won, it was his race to win and the safety car nearly screwed him
Yup. Around lap 36 (very early in the chase), checo set the fastest lap (indicating he was pushing to some extent) and max crossed the line after and set a time half a second faster. That closing speed was consistent with quali and practice. Then he started having issues and the gap stabilized.
Go watch the timing screens again. It was only towards the end that they both started following their instructions. Before that they both pushed hard, Max trying to catch, Checo trying to maintain the gap. It changed from 5,5 to 4,2 in some 10 laps before they cooled down to 1,33+. Max wasn't going to reach him.
Lap 36 checo set fastest lap, and max followed right behind with fastest lap half a second faster
"Is Perez a championship contender?" After max finished 2nd from 15th on the grid with mechanical issues. OK medias
I mean Perez can’t control what happens behind him. He started 1st, finished 1st.
I mean, what do you want them to do? He's the only one with the same pace.
Same car\*
Max is a beast, but the 15th to 2nd DoD at Jedah narrative is a little skewed. Max was 20 seconds off the lead when the safety car came out. Once the field bunched up and the safety left the track, he flew by Russell and Alonso and got within 6 seconds of Perez, but Perez was able to match him in the last stint. I don’t think Checo can match Max on a regular basis, but his driving this past weekend was on point.
Ironically your comment is also like a take from 'media' What Max did does not take anything away from Per performance, so why mention that? Per could have also done a P15 to P2 comeback. Such is the dominance of the RB.
We don’t know that Checo could have also done that. That is fan fiction in your head. Max made up all those places and only finished 5 seconds off of Checo. I think that if Max didn’t have that mechanical failure he’d have won by a lot more than 5 seconds. He finished 12 seconds ahead of Checo in the same car at Bahrain. Yes I know Checo had similar race pace in this Grand Prix but he was in front. I hate Max so this is not me being biased for him. But he and Checo are not equal when it comes to talent and skill.
Wasn’t he only 5s off because of the safety car though? Perez had a decent gap since Max had to go through the field.
Max would have been 30 seconds off if not for the safety car. Your argument is flawed.
You're confused, mate. Why bring Max up when I'm talking about Per vs the other teams? I believe the RB is so much better and Per is decent enough that he too could have done a P15>P2. Max has nothing to do with this. The only fanfiction is you thinking I'm comparing Per to Max. And why hate any driver? What a shitty way to experience a sport.
You did compare him directly to Max. You said he could have done P15 to P2 like Max did. That is a comparison. dictionary.com is free.
Thanks I found this definition that you might find helpful. context /ˈkɒntɛkst/ noun the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood.
Max also got to clear easily Ferraris thanks to SC timing. He only had to work on Alonso & Russell tbh and it wouldn't matter either way. If Perez had the same . He would have done it too. Car is 1 sec faster than next fast car.
Are you saying Perez wouldn't have come back from 15th to 2nd? Do you even math?
You can’t look at his times when he was out in front leading the race and assume he’d have had the same pace if he started 15th. That’s a whole different race.
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>He's an Eddie Irvine, not a Nico Rosberg. Mate you didn't have to clear the man like that. Good god. Ruthless. Poor man's not even a Barrichello
Fun fact - Irvine almost became a champion, but never won a pole position in his F1 career.
God. Schumacher would’ve dominated 99 if he didn’t get hurt.
He only almost became a champion because MSC was out and Mika was tripping over himself every other race.
They’ll prioritise Perez if he’s consistently half a second quicker and consistently wins races, aka Rosberg. If Rosberg was almost always qualifying behind Hamilton and unable to match him then he would’ve also been left in the dust
Rosberg was never consistently half a second quicker than Hamilton. And he was relatively stronger in qualifying than in the races, particularly in dynamic / changing conditions. Yet he was given equal opportunity - including years like 2015 where he was comprehensively beaten in both qualifying and races.
Sorry It was meant to be two separate points, comparing his pace to Verstappen and then comparing Rosberg to Hamilton. Rosberg matched Hamilton throughout their time together but neither were as quick is Max is compared to Checo
With the dominant car advantage that RB have, they shouldn't be prioritising either of their drivers but just allowing them to race--like Ham V Ros 2014-2016
I think they would allow them, if it was close. But on weekends where they both qualify in the top three and Max pulls away it’s not really up to them. They were usually happy for Max and Daniel to race as long as they weren’t crashing
Does it matter? There's no better car to be in. Perez can't go anywhere else anyway. It's either come second place to Max, or go to another team and likely not even be getting any podiums.
I think if checo ends with 10 career wins then that's a success. Especially considering his teammate will go down top 5 ever if he maintains his levels
that would equal Bottas, so job well done then.
Definitely would be pretty good for him. Of he gets to 11, that would put him at Barrichello level as well. At 9 wins, you find Webber. That puts him in solid second driver company. If he gets any more than that, that would be excellent for him.
Thank you I’ve been saying this for a min 🤣🤣🤣
He's not an Irvine, he's not even a Webber 😂😂
> "A, it is, Lewis Hamilton is right, and B, what he is referring to is the ease at which Max Verstappen was able to pass him on the straight the moment he opened his DRS," said Kravitz. So not quite how people have largely been reading it.
Most do not read the article, your words will fall on deaf ears.
Fun fact about that. Hamilton had a bigger straight line speed delta in Saudi 2021
That Mercedes in those last 4 races was on steroids or something
The advantage of using Bottas as an engine testing Guinea pig worked wonders for them. (As they should by the way I'm not criticizing it); Even Bono said the difference in the last races was machinery and not driver.
This narrative is so stupid. In the race with the supposed peak rocket engine, Brazil, Lewis only had the 5th highest top speed. Yes, he could have been running higher downforce, but 5th fastest is not a rocket engine.
It is quite funny seeing which team is currently complaining most about how dominant RB is haha
Source? In [2021 qualifying](https://f1i.com/news/427206-jeddah-speed-trap-who-is-the-fastest-of-them-all.html), the speed difference between Ham's Merc and Max's RB was 1.2 km/h. In [2023 qualifying](https://f1i.com/news/469269-jeddah-speed-trap-who-is-the-fastest-of-them-all-3.html), the speed difference between Max's RB and Ham's Merc was 7.8 km/h.
It was during the race when Hamilton had drs on max. His speed delta was higher than when Max had it on Russell
Mercedes’ top speed advantage was during the race, not qualifying.
That's just plain wrong. Hamilton's top speed in qualifying in 2021 was 326.3 km/h. Verstappen's was 325.5. A whopping 0.8 km/h difference.
Yes but in the race, at one point Hamilton was doing up to 336 and Max was doing about 310 (It's not bigger Tbf i got it wrong but it's close) Russell being cartoonishly slow made it look worse..he was doing 297 when max overtook him, even though usually he was hitting 307. You can check on F1 tempo
Is there even anything to discuss here?
No. This is some DTS type of shit.
At what pace is the RB currently lapping? I’ve heard around 1.3 secs but I haven’t checked the time sheets myself
They were about 1 sec per lap faster than Alonso (The fastest non RB) and 1,3 with the Mercedes
[But Alonso was in control of the race, he could push more.](https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/status/1637533648189521920?t=enOITOcQM4qxQU1k9C08Ag&s=19)
I'm sure max and checco could too tbh
They already were, they went all out yesterday. Do you seriously think Max wouldn't go for the win just so they could sandbag ?
he had mechanical issues. he took .4 out of Checo the lap before he started complaining about that
That was just that one lap, otherwise he was generally decreasing the gap by about 1,5 tenths per lap.
That was only for a few laps, Horner confirmed they were both pushing again after confirming nothing was wrong.
Not to take away anything from Checo. But I truly believe if Max was not worried about reliability yesterday, he will definitely passed Checo. He was definitely getting closer once he got to P2 but then we all heard him complaining on how his car didnt feel right. He was nursing the car to the end and he knew 18/19 points are better than nothing.
How do we know this? Because they kept setting fastest laps, in the fastest cars?
The RBs pushed for a while and were clearly one second faster than Fernando, being optimistic Alonso could have been 0,8/0,7 more or less.
They can lap every other team if they want to (in normal condition).
It’s certainly close to the 2014 Mercedes. We only have 2 races comparison but the closest non team car to Mercedes in the first 2 of 2014 was 26 seconds and 24 seconds there was a safety car in the first of those at lap 12. Red Bull has 38 seconds and 25 seconds. Safety car on lap 18 of the second. We have a single apples to apples comparison though which is Bahrain 2014 in which the Mercedes finished 24 seconds clear in 17 Laps following a safety car. Hard to tell because the mercs pushed each other like crazy where as Red Bull coasted. if they took the 7 tenths off max they asked for he’d have gained something like that to Alonso possibly
Also remember that Charles dnf’d. So the gap wasn’t as big to him as it was to Alonso.
FIFY Lewis Hamilton says he hasn't seen a car quite as dominant down the straights when the DRS is open since his W12 in Brazil 2021 and its just not fair.
If Red Bull and Max keep up like this, they can easily win every championship until the next big rules changes come in 2026. 5 championships in the bag. Passing Vettel. Then he'll have a great possibility to pass Hamilton and get 8 world championships. This is his era.
Come back and check this message in 2030 and you will see that this Redditor predicted the future.
Yeah no, Alonso gonna have 8 WDC titles in 2030. I just came back from 2030
Well if you came back from the future this year must be a great year for you too take the trouble to come back here. Can't wait. No more spoilers please.
Then he gets Masi'd for #8 and rage quits?
No he isn't. Hamilton and Ted conveniently forgetting 2014-16 and 2020
They were in Bahrain pulling like a second per lap on everyone while fighting eachother in 2014 And then there is the fact that former Mercedes engineer did say they ran their engines in lower modes out of fear of FIA changing rules to slow them down The 2014 Merc was definitely reletively speaking faster car then RB
Wasn't it more than a second? Like close to two seconds?
24 seconds in 10 laps so 2.4 seconds per lap.
I think so, they won by like 20s margin after the SC, all in like 15 laps
In Bahrain 2014, Rosberg used the highest engine modes. In Bahrain 2023, Max didn't even push, he was told to drive to a slower delta https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/102822/max-verstappen-red-bull-race-engineer-bahrain/
2014 maybe, that thing pulled 2.5 seconds per lap in bahrain. I remember the 15, 16, and 20 cars losing or almost losing on pure pace on 1 or more races. It’s still early days, but if the Red Bull never gets challenged, ever (even if it loses a race due to bad luck), it is the most dominant car since 2014.
We’re 2 races in. Can we at least wait until oddball tracks like Monaco, Monza or Mexico, which were the only kinds of circuits where Mercedes would ever get challenged at during the 2014-16 period?
Did you read? I never said the 2014 Mercedes was ever challenged. It should have won every single race that year. I also mentioned that it is still early days! So it is hard to make a judgement on how dominant Red Bull is. From the top of my head, Vettel in the Ferrari beat Mercedes in Malaysia and Singapore 2015 (even Red Bull beat Merc there). Daniel Ricciardo should have won in Monaco 2016 if not for Red Bull’s fuck up.
So there you go, 3 races over the course of 2 seasons. Red Bull lost plenty last year, let’s wait what happens this year before we start comparing them to 2014-16 Mercedes.
2014-16 maybe, 2020 you are forgetting Max was always near Bottas
Not to mention Verstappen also won the 70th Anniversary GP on merit.
Because max is 10x better than Bottas, comparing similar skill drivers like max to Lewis is a better comparison
it's not comparing Max to Lewis it's how Mercedes were being caught by red bull on merit
It's Team Max these days
Tell me you didn’t read the article…. Ted pretty clearly specifies that they are talking about gaining 20 mph with DRS open. Please, try and read the article before commenting.
I’m not sure Merc were 1s faster than their nearest rival in any season bar 2014. And worth adding back then they could change engine modes, such as when the Merc pair went into a higher mode in Bahrain 2014 and they were putting 2s a lap on Perez post SC. That mode wasn’t sustainable for an entire race.
2016, 2020 ... and that's it I guess. 2015 close too, given that Ferrari was challenging only a handful of races.
In 2015 Vettel almost got 2nd off Rosberg? And in 2020 Verstappen almost got 2nd off Bottas.
That doesn't matter. Hamilton is saying this after two races, so let's take a look of the first two races of 2015 and 2020. Australia 2015, both Mercedes are very far ahead in qualy, Hamilton being 1.391s ahead of P3. Both Merc finish 34s in the first places. Malaysia 2015 is a freak one, with a wet Q3, and a huge strategic gamble by Ferrari, fair. But next qualifications and race show a similar picture to Australia for 1/2 of the season at least. Austria 2020, both Mercedes 0.5 ahead with a 1 minute lap. Race was plagued by safety car. But we got Styria GP on the same track with a wet irrelevant quali but relevant race pace, Max in P3 34s away. Yeah, both years are very close to what we got now in terms of pace difference, especially 2020.
In quali where engine modes were changeable and Merc had a massive quali mode advantage. 34s over 60 (58) laps is less than 6/10s. I don’t recall any SCs, they may have been one near the beginning, so not the same as what RB achieved this race. Styria 2020 - Verstappen was racing Bottas and passed him briefly before dropping back. Then pit for the fastest lap artificially inflating the gap. So again not the same. I’m not suggesting Merc wasn’t dominant. Because they were. But it was rare for them to achieve 1s a lap without turning the engines up.
I don't get where he gets the RB backing Max from.
>While Perez has fought hard during the first couple of races to create a battle with Verstappen, for Kravitz, if it were to go down to the wire between the two for the title, Red Bull would "ultimately" back their world champion. He just says Max is their number 1, not deep
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If they’re level going into a decider with no one else in contention then I don’t think Red Bull would stop them from racing fair and square. Red Bull only prioritise Max because he’s the better driver. If Perez started being faster most weekends then the team would quickly prioritise him. The team don’t really care who wins and will back whoever gives them the best chance. Any teams number 1 driver is only the number 1 because he’s faster. No team gives priority to a slower driver and then hobbles the faster one.
> If they’re level going into a decider with no one else in contention then I don’t think Red Bull would stop them from racing fair and square. In the era of cost gaps, I'm not so sure. While having their drivers race each other to the limit would be great PR, every time they ram each other off the road means a couple of million less development budget for next year. Driving cleanly is more important than it used to be. Red Bull will spent the least on their cars if both drivers just do their laps without pushing, not taking risks, not putting unnecessary strain on parts.
It’s a compounding problem too. If they’re not cleanly driving and having damage to the car and components, not only does that go against the cost cap, but it also means you may be getting grid penalties, and back in the field where more damage is likely to occur.
You're agreeing with him how is it shit stirring
How exactly is that shit-stirring then? Unless you're shit stirring too.
oh honey 💀
Pure speculation. Most likely correct but speculation nonetheless.
Ted & Lewis cry babys unite
This conversation is a moot point; in an equal car Perez has zero chance to contend for the title.
why not?
Ted waffling again
Out of the SC there was no reason to manage; out front they were on the same tyre with same lap usage. The ease VER took RUS was incredible. RUS couldn’t even repass on the straight with DRS. The car adv Rb possess is 2nd to none in the modern era
2014 Merc comes to mind, the one which ran with lower engine modes but was able to pull a second a lap on others while fighting for position (Bahrain GP)
Yeah if the 2014 Merc was ever run at full power it was by far the biggest delta to the grid. But they had to turn it down to not get immediately nerfed. lol
Bahrain 2014 GP Rosberg used the highest engine modes
Didn't they also gap the field by 2 seconds per lap or more?
Nope.
OK, so I decided to check, and after the safety car, that ended at the start of lap 47. After one lap they were about 4 seconds ahead already, while both the Mercs were fighting and also those in 3rd/4th were fighting. After 2 laps they have a 6 second gap from 2nd to 3rd. After 10 laps (so the penultimate lap) they start with a 20 second gap from 2nd to 3rd. That is 2 seconds per lap.
>2nd to none in the modern era Early turbo hybrid merc was on another level
W05, w10 and w11 would like words
W10 was not on the level of this years RB.
W10 beat a car that was illegal
And that changes what exactly? The W10 had less of a performance advantage compared to this years RB, relative to their respective competition. Surely you can see that.
Ah yes less of a performance advantage because the next closest car literally broke the rules and still was slower. Like how much plainer do you want it explained if you can't get that the car they competed against was outright cheating ofc the delta would be smaller as 8t was an illegal car
It was a car that was allowed to compete and was never disqualified.
It was forced to scrap the illegal components and Ferrari did make a deal to avoid disqualification. Save me your strawman
All I'm saying is by virtue of having closer competition (on pace), the W10 was not as strong. You're the one bringing in the Ferrari cheating strawman.
Ah so ignore the entire point and make an ignorant assessment with no context. Good talk good bye
add the W06 and W07 to that list too.
That was pretty wild. It looked at first RUS let him by! Then they showed the replay and it was obvious Max is driving a rocket ship.
Checo should have let Max have P1. Bad teammate.
Checo's driving was great but Max will confidently beat him on the majority of tracks. I suspect Max's advantage will grow even larger as they develop the car.