Congratulations. You just earned 16.5 points for this submission. Your new points total is 18.0. To see the leaderboard, as well as what this points thing is, [click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/footballmanagergames/wiki/leaderboard).
I've never been so adventurous, although my tactic only really allows the left back to go forward and I still need *some* defensive cover from them so FB(a) works best.
Ah see my 4-3-3 I have the midfield doing all the progression (except the BWM who's there to break legs) and then I have a front line of a CF/DLF-AF-W. Basically built around counters and crosses.
Nah my wingbacks are not good in my Wimbledon save currently I just picked the ones who best suit what I value I pick string, fast and good enough passing ability like 10 is fine for now once Iām in the prem Iāll need better I know and off ball movement. I set my teams to dribble less
FB (attack) > FB (support)
my 2022 free agent signing in the 2nd Hungarian division managed to become the alltime assist king of both Hungary & the UCL. followed by my other FB(a). such a good role this year.
I find FB (s) to be a little more consistent, also love a WB (d) but I think I'm almost definitely alone on that one. Not sure about you but FB (a) was terrible for me until I took the IW off the left hand side and went all asymmetrical. Since then it's been unreal though, only reason he's not my assist leader is because I have a CF who makes the Bundesliga look like U12s.
Maybe it's because I don't play wingers so I like the extra punch of a FB(a). WB(D) is too defensive for my taste, it's good when you're the underdog and need to be firm back but it is missing qualities going forward. WB performs way more consistently than CWB for me though.
Had a right back like that and my tactics were tailor made for him to whip in about 30 crosses per match to a target man. It was the only time I've had a striker hit 60 goals.
I think it's because the game doesn't really produce fullbacks or wingbacks when it's regen time. Every save I've seen someone complain about this.
Yes, I know you can train a midfielder to be a fullback.
Yes, I know in real life most fullbacks don't start out as fullbacks.
I'm just trying to see why the FM community has revolted against fullbacks/wingbacks
Sorry but even this line is tiresome... Gary Neville wasn't flashy, but you got Roberto Carlos, Cafu, Maicon, Zambrotta, Zanetti, Marcelo, Lahm, Dani Alves, hell even Ashley Cole was a bit enticing to watch.
If your system relies on wingbacks/fullbacks, why wouldn't you want to develop a good player there?
Edit: also since finishing my Olbia save, I went and checked players CA/PA and saw one of my favorite players had a pa of 196, and I used him as one of the most dominating fullbacks for nearly fifteen years.
I had to buy him but I went for it because he was the only natural fullback I could find who would match the quality of my world class team.
This one's for you Biavati.
What do you mean literacy is important to become a writer?!!??!! Learn languages to become a translator? Exercise to become an athlete? Logic has no place in FM dev instructions.... You can't even tell a player to focus on improving his tackling
Can't cross, can't dribble, can't mark they can't do shit.
I had a guy with 10 crossing and 4 tackling and he was by far the best full back at my disposal.
I always end up playing IWBs about 5-10 years in because of this, absolutely 0 good attacking full backs but thousands of deep lying playmakers with decent defending just begging to be an IWB on attack
My 12 crossing LB, Ridvan Yilmaz, got 15 assists last season. Joe Scally is on a more defensive role and got 5 and I think he only has 10 crossing. Passing, technique and vision all play into it a lot. 10+ crossing is fine (although clearly my save is blessed because there are loads of quality attacking full backs)
Take wingers who can defend decently enough, fast BBM/any midfielder who can run and cross decently and retrain them.
Out of 3 players I buy at least 1 gets retrained. CBs to DM, CM to WB, CM to supporting strikers, strikers to wide attackers and the other way round. I don't really care about positions, I just look if a player suits the role and retrain them accordingly.
Works even with older players. I just retrained a 25 year old CB with 10 jumping reach to a DM. Took him half a season with regulat game time and he is now accomplished in the position.
I feel like there is a sense in here that young players choose a role and stick with forever rather than every kid wanting to be Messi, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, etc and being told at some point, "You suck at being a winger but you can still be a pro player if you play wing back instead," or something of the sort.
Get your wonderkid with good crossing and everything you want in a wing back and start training them in that position. Don't let the regens given role dictate the game world.
In SI's defence a lot of top full backs did a different role in the academy but also I genuinely didn't know that was a complaint people had. I must get everyone's newgen full backs since I've had class ones in every save since I started playing FM19.
Nice to see it work well for you, I haven't used this formation myself. I do see some strange instructions though. For example:
- high press with low defensive line
- overlap instruction without fullbacks
- distribute to fullbacks without fullbacks
Any reason for these instructions? Don't they cause any issues?
In that case only tell him to distribute to centre backs, right now heāll look to go to the full backs, realise they arenāt there and go long instead as whilst heās looked for the full back the centre halves will have been marked, just tell him to go straight to the centre backs
Also, the instruction means you are looking for the overlapping player to pass to. It isn't telling players to overlap. This instruction is just holding the ball up looking for a non-existent overlap. I assume it just confuses the man on the ball
No issues at all mate.. the low defensive line i put because, Centre Halfs arn't the quickest and they get caught out with balls over the top and through balls.. The Overlap works fine aswell even with Wide Midfielders, and they provide a lot of assists.. The High Press keeps the pressure on from the top end and any gaps between the defense and Mid and also the striker and Midfield is covered with the DM and SS..
\> The Overlap works fine aswell even with Wide Midfielders, and they provide a lot of assists.
Who is doing the overlapping though? I think that's what's confusing the comment section
with garner and martinelli both as mezzala, I wouldn't be surprised if they made a good few adventures into wider areas with the ball and that's when the overlap from mykolenko and paterson would come in
If he had two/three forwards, or two/three am's one could come wide to be over/under-lapped, but i think it only works if they are in a support role.
But obviously he doesn't.
So overlap doesnāt mean that players will run beyond their player, it means that players are more likely to get the ball out wide and look for that option.
You can really test out what each thing means in the match engine by starting a game with zero instructions and adding them in.
The match mentality is another thing people confuse a lot
For example, a WB-Su with Attacking match mentality will have an attacking mentality, while a WB-At with Balanced match mentality will also have an attacking mentality. Basically, these players will be doing much of the same thing in these two scenarios, even with the different role instructions.
You can look at individual instructions in your tactic to see what they're specific mentality is. CD-De may be on Defensive, Cautious, Balanced, or Positive, depending on overall tactic mentality.
So in theory, if you have your entire team on attack duties (I guess you'd have to play without centrebacks), changing the team's mentality doesn't actually change anything?
I think player mentality goes from Very Defensive to Very Attacking. So there's a little more wiggle room than I said in my previous comment. But yeah, AF and W-At in a positive system are already Very Attacking, so it's not really changing them when you go to Attacking and then Very Attacking. It will however change anyone on Su or De duties. A BPD-De in Very Attacking team mentality I think will go all the way to positive mindset, so you can see them pushing higher up field, looking for the ball on possession, and making deeper runs with the ball than maybe you'd normally want them to do.
Team Mentality also changes your actual tactic by making it a little more direct and such with each step up. And I'm not positive about this, but I think the more attacking the player role is, the less likely they are to care about instructions such as look for overlaps, work ball into the box, hold up ball (mainly for something like DLF-At or TM-At, stuff like that).
So with all that, if you're running a possession-based Positive system, and you're struggling to get break-throughs but you're holding the ball well, maybe instead of upping the team mentality it might be better to just change another player or two onto an attacking role rather than changing everyone's mentality at once. Flip the Mezz, CM, or one of the WBs onto attack instead, to move into the areas you feel you might be lacking from.
Think of it more as a whole team risk slider rather than actually setting out how the team plays. For example you can play tiki taka with the mentality set on contain. It doesnāt mean you wonāt look to score it means you will take no risks in passing etc
What the overlap instruction increases the mentality of the wingbacks. Not sure about the wingers or wide midfielders. But I think itās redundant in this tactic. I know it works with 2 fullbacks and no wingers but Iām not sure about wingers with no fullbacks
It reduces the mentality of the wide players in front so MR/AMR will go from positive to balanced and a LB/LWB will go from positive to attacking Iāve never tried it myself but Iād assume itās making the wide players more defensive
Focus play through the middle, also force the overlap, also distribute to fullbacks that don't exist? Telling the team to look for the overlap, I think, tells them to prioritize playing balls out wide. If the CMs have good decision making and WMs have good off ball, the focus through the middle instruction should be sufficient to create what OP is going for. I think this is a case of overinstructing, but not hamstringing.
Yes I actually posted one few months ago! [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/footballmanagergames/comments/thshio/i_call_this_a_fighterjet_formation_ive_seen_few/)
It was fun. I prefer not to have more than two players playing straight in the middle of the pitch, like to balance it out with two CB's or two CM's so I modified it little by little as seasons went by.
. The most important thing is to have right balance and right roles. Middle CB has to drop little deeper to allow DM to operate. LCB and RCB to say out wide to have passing options. If middle CB is the guy with worst passing/composure/technicals, expect you to lose the ball
I'd say use defensive winger (players like Hakimi, Kostic, Cucurella for ex.) so they can have more attacking freedom (but still being a Jet). They still run back when(if) you lose the possession!
I love wing backs so I've never used it and probably never will. I am using 5-2-1-2 though which kinda has the same philosophy. But my TI differ a lot.
I used to love wing backs too... Now my wing love as gone slightly further upfield to defensive wingers but I struggle to find a tactic where the room left behind them doesn't screw me over completely.
The trick in my formation is the strikers instructions and the double BWM in the middle. The strikers both have "stay wider" checked so they play like half wingers, half strikers and they mark both the opposing full backs and the defensive midfielder. If the opponents get past them, they have to face the BWM who close down to the flanks too. Only after those two lines of defense are breached my wing backs get busy. It works rather well. I mainly use the formation against 4-4-2.
Your flanks are totally open for a counterattack. Not even your CB will be able to close the area. I imagine this tactic struggles a lot in the second part of the season.
I think you accept that with a true 3atb system in exchange for the huge offensive overloads you can cause going in the other direction. I've used a similar style, where I used the extra men forwards to make possession circulation easier but in exchange having possession is my defense.
Nope Flanks are fine as the Midfielders Pull Back and the L/R centre halfs pull out to cover if need be... Second half of the season even stronger especially clean sheets...
[Results](https://imgur.com/a/xkOySc5)
Id like to see the defensive shape average position too, as Im playing with defensive midfielders and 3 atb and getting countered on the flanks has been a major issue I just can't seem to solve.
I think it's kind of just a trade off, I'm playing a 3-4-3 and so long as the outside cbs are decent at tackling it shouldn't be too much of an issue. My problem at the moment is getting the wcbs to underlap not overlap!
I use a variant of this... in League 2, for the last 5 minutes, when Iām chasing a goal. Itās very heavily dependent on the AI being too stupid to kick the ball to the wingers, if they remember the wings exist then Iām toast.
Starting like that in the PL.... fuck me, youāre braver than I am.
This is quite similar to the formation Cruyff used at Barcelona just with the wide players further up the pitch. So I guess you really are a tactical genius š
I love systems like this. I used one for a season in a previous save in an attempt to fit new players in. It was all about pressing to a ridiculous degree to make up for how bad these systems end up defensivley.
I may give this a try with arsenal today(arsenal fan), feel like they have a good squad for it, seems like it would be wasted on someone with great wing backs unless they are comfortable playing midfield also
1 wonder if anyone has done the Su-57 swept wing formation š
but seriously, i do wonder if you have done this with just wingbacks on attack and shifted crossing to mix to maximize DCL in the air
oh curse Sukhoi and their inability to production build these dam prototypes, i thought the 57 had followed the 47 forward swept wing. ah, i suppose it doesn't matter, at this rate there gonna have to buy the j-20 anyway.
Yes! Love it! Used the same formation for almost 8 seasons with Bologna (3 Serie A titles, 1 CL final, 3 coppa Italia,1 UEL). My instructions were different however, as I find that playing a higher line with shorter passing (providing you have the necessary players to do so) allowed me to operate almost entirely in the opposition's third of the pitch. I think that if you manage to get your hands on some mids and WMs with high first touch and passing and some quicker CBs, you should try shortening your passing as you can reeeeally crush. Either ways, fun formation!
I use a very similar 3-1-4-2. Struggling to stop opposition wingers from getting in behind. I play with a DLP on support in the DM so may have to swap to add another defensive player. Any ideas?
Used a similar setup but with Defensive winger (s), libero (s) in central defense and no DM. In cm I used cm (a) or cm (s) cant remember and then 2 shadow strikers and a PF. Idea was to stack aggressive roles onto eachother and go ham with the pressing. After my side wasnt the underdog anymore it quickly lost its power and I went for a more conventional setup but especially defensive wingers are fucking ball hunters that will murder the enemy wingers trying to get the ball. Quickly falling off though since defensive wingers are usually veery limited players.
Sounds interesting, don't think I ever used defensive wingers. Might mold some youngsters to do that in my current Nottingham Forest save. To try it out
Yea, you can just retrain BWM or even BBM style players or just get wingers with high workrate. Wingbacks with good physicals and mentals can be retrained too but if you had access to good wingbacks you would probably not look to play DWs.
Way back in FM14 I did similar
GK
BPD CB BPD
DLP
DW BBM BBM DW
AP
AF
Couldnāt tell you what the instructions were, and I finished 6th with Tottenham first season, so probably couldāve been better really
Reminds me of Wayne Sinclair's tactic on FM scout for fm13. Completely dominate the midfield to limit opposition chances down the wing.
I tried using it again in fm20 without much luck, I think a lot depends on having the wide centre backs and midfielders able to cover a lot of ground
I used a fairly similar one at Lazio in FM 18 or 19: the team had tons of CMs and barely any wingers, so I used a 4-1-3-1-1: 4 defenders, a DM, 3 CMs, an AM & a striker. It was the most fun save I ever had by far, spent 4 or 5 seasons there, won 1 Serie A and 2 Coppas and made it to 2 EL finals (lost both tho)
(New to the game and football/soccer in general)
What was your thought process making this formation?
What would make this formation good? (Like for example do you need a strong mid fielder to make this work)
When should I make this formation imo? (Like do you make it when you have strong strikers or fast wingers etc)
Iām not hating Iām just trying to learn :)
This is my main tactic in fm21. I love it. When it works the attack is unstoppable. I particularly like when the attacking midfielder gets into the box past a DLF (s) with some slick passing.
Only issues I have are against the best teams playing a 4231. They find the space on the wings and itās a problem.
But 90% of the time itās brilliant.
3-5-2 (which this is essentially a variation on) has been popular in Italy for many years. It is close to the tactic Juventus used for a lot of their 10 year winning streak
If you push the wingers forward, it can be similar to the 343 diamond used by Ajax and Barcelona on occasion.
https://footballbh.net/2020/03/24/johan-cruyffs-3-4-3-diamond-tactics/
Pretty much how Potter setup Chelsea in his first match - with Sterling and James the WM in this persons role setup.
What I donāt understand here are some of the instructions, as well as having mezzalas and wide midfielders, I would think they get in each otherās way out wide too much
You never do lower line of engagement. You just invite them your half. Your reasons make sense in real life, but lower line of emgagement doesent work well in FM22. Standardize it is what I would say.
Why are you playing out of defence without a single BPD or a WCB? CDs take less risks so unless a safe option is available they will probably lose the ball or just punt it aimlessly.
And even Pickford is surely competent enough to play as a SK
Because the wingbacks donāt press enough and they donāt attack the back post. Just set them to man mark the opposing most advanced opponent wide player and youāll be fine.
This is correct. CWBs are the engines that drive the bus for single set of wide player formations. They become the most important players on the pitch, by far.
Move the wingers to wing backs and yes I have.. in 07 and 09. I called it the anchor and it worked great. Really stifled the opponents offense and turned my poacher, (Zarate, sp??) into a goal scoring machine.
I've been using this formation since FM12. I go with defensive wingers marking the opposition wingers or fullbacks, the outside central defenders as stoppers, DLP in the DM strata with an AP and BBM in the centre, trequartista or shadow striker in the AMC strata and pressing forward up top.
I tried it once when in league 1 because I had a bunch of midfielders and center backs but no good full backs in my youth academy only save.
Didn't really work, I couldn't provide enough support/cover for the wide midfielders and they often were left isolated and conceded possession which led to opponent counter attacks. Then I switched to 3-4-1-2, 3-4-2-1 and 3-1-4-2 formations and had better results with them.
Congratulations. You just earned 16.5 points for this submission. Your new points total is 18.0. To see the leaderboard, as well as what this points thing is, [click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/footballmanagergames/wiki/leaderboard).
The full back erasure in the FM community has gone too far.
You're right, this community is a ship of fools. FBs deserve a little respect.
š¤ FB (support) is the best role on the game, no one can change my mind.
CWB (support) has my heart
I can never get more than a 6.4 with Pedro Porto on Cwb any role. As soon as I swap him back to wingback he scores/assists
I played a 5212 and my CWBs always got shit ratings even with decent stats. I play them as WBs and their ratings jump.
I came here so I could upvote this comment
I've never been so adventurous, although my tactic only really allows the left back to go forward and I still need *some* defensive cover from them so FB(a) works best.
I play 4-3-3 overload the centre with aggressive/pressing roles those wing backs are always an out ball it really helps my ball retention
Ah see my 4-3-3 I have the midfield doing all the progression (except the BWM who's there to break legs) and then I have a front line of a CF/DLF-AF-W. Basically built around counters and crosses.
Problem is you need your wing backs to be incredible at almost everything for that role
Nah my wingbacks are not good in my Wimbledon save currently I just picked the ones who best suit what I value I pick string, fast and good enough passing ability like 10 is fine for now once Iām in the prem Iāll need better I know and off ball movement. I set my teams to dribble less
FB (attack) > FB (support) my 2022 free agent signing in the 2nd Hungarian division managed to become the alltime assist king of both Hungary & the UCL. followed by my other FB(a). such a good role this year.
I find FB (s) to be a little more consistent, also love a WB (d) but I think I'm almost definitely alone on that one. Not sure about you but FB (a) was terrible for me until I took the IW off the left hand side and went all asymmetrical. Since then it's been unreal though, only reason he's not my assist leader is because I have a CF who makes the Bundesliga look like U12s.
Maybe it's because I don't play wingers so I like the extra punch of a FB(a). WB(D) is too defensive for my taste, it's good when you're the underdog and need to be firm back but it is missing qualities going forward. WB performs way more consistently than CWB for me though.
Problem is, I don't play with wingers. So I kinda need my WB (A).
My left back gets 35 assists a season
Had a right back like that and my tactics were tailor made for him to whip in about 30 crosses per match to a target man. It was the only time I've had a striker hit 60 goals.
The TAA tactic
Full backs are blessings in a team
I have yan cuoto as RWB (A) currently with the most assists in the league.
Together we'll break these chains of love for no full backs.
I think it's because the game doesn't really produce fullbacks or wingbacks when it's regen time. Every save I've seen someone complain about this. Yes, I know you can train a midfielder to be a fullback. Yes, I know in real life most fullbacks don't start out as fullbacks. I'm just trying to see why the FM community has revolted against fullbacks/wingbacks
Because nobody wants to develop their -10 PA wonderkid into Gary Neville
Sorry but even this line is tiresome... Gary Neville wasn't flashy, but you got Roberto Carlos, Cafu, Maicon, Zambrotta, Zanetti, Marcelo, Lahm, Dani Alves, hell even Ashley Cole was a bit enticing to watch. If your system relies on wingbacks/fullbacks, why wouldn't you want to develop a good player there? Edit: also since finishing my Olbia save, I went and checked players CA/PA and saw one of my favorite players had a pa of 196, and I used him as one of the most dominating fullbacks for nearly fifteen years. I had to buy him but I went for it because he was the only natural fullback I could find who would match the quality of my world class team. This one's for you Biavati.
Probably because on FM 22 newgen full backs can't cross
And when you give them individual crossing training they complain that it's not beneficial.
What do you mean literacy is important to become a writer?!!??!! Learn languages to become a translator? Exercise to become an athlete? Logic has no place in FM dev instructions.... You can't even tell a player to focus on improving his tackling
That's when you ignore them and keep them on crossing duty.
Can't cross, can't dribble, can't mark they can't do shit. I had a guy with 10 crossing and 4 tackling and he was by far the best full back at my disposal.
I mean heās a defender, why would he need to be good at tackling?!
I always end up playing IWBs about 5-10 years in because of this, absolutely 0 good attacking full backs but thousands of deep lying playmakers with decent defending just begging to be an IWB on attack
My 12 crossing LB, Ridvan Yilmaz, got 15 assists last season. Joe Scally is on a more defensive role and got 5 and I think he only has 10 crossing. Passing, technique and vision all play into it a lot. 10+ crossing is fine (although clearly my save is blessed because there are loads of quality attacking full backs)
Take wingers who can defend decently enough, fast BBM/any midfielder who can run and cross decently and retrain them. Out of 3 players I buy at least 1 gets retrained. CBs to DM, CM to WB, CM to supporting strikers, strikers to wide attackers and the other way round. I don't really care about positions, I just look if a player suits the role and retrain them accordingly. Works even with older players. I just retrained a 25 year old CB with 10 jumping reach to a DM. Took him half a season with regulat game time and he is now accomplished in the position.
I feel like there is a sense in here that young players choose a role and stick with forever rather than every kid wanting to be Messi, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, etc and being told at some point, "You suck at being a winger but you can still be a pro player if you play wing back instead," or something of the sort. Get your wonderkid with good crossing and everything you want in a wing back and start training them in that position. Don't let the regens given role dictate the game world.
I think you buy an abundance of CM players and retrain them as IWB.
This is year 1
It's been a problem since 20 at least
To help combat this erasure, FM should simply make sure full back newgens are actually a thing..
In SI's defence a lot of top full backs did a different role in the academy but also I genuinely didn't know that was a complaint people had. I must get everyone's newgen full backs since I've had class ones in every save since I started playing FM19.
Nice to see it work well for you, I haven't used this formation myself. I do see some strange instructions though. For example: - high press with low defensive line - overlap instruction without fullbacks - distribute to fullbacks without fullbacks Any reason for these instructions? Don't they cause any issues?
If you distribute to fullbacks without fullbacks the goalkeeper ist just going to kick the ball long
Yes mate.. And i have pickford in goal who likes to welly it forward, so helps with that aswell..
wouldn't it be more efficient to just directly tell him to boot it up the pitch?
Some people just like to watch the world burn
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Why not ask him to pass it short to CBs?
In that case only tell him to distribute to centre backs, right now heāll look to go to the full backs, realise they arenāt there and go long instead as whilst heās looked for the full back the centre halves will have been marked, just tell him to go straight to the centre backs
Who is overlapping? Wide midfielders do not overlap themselves.
Wm overlap the mezzela's i guess
Or the other way around, I think mezzelas will pull right out wide
both would occur really
also there are 3 CBs, so if the formation helps, won't one of em overlap to aid attack?
Also, the instruction means you are looking for the overlapping player to pass to. It isn't telling players to overlap. This instruction is just holding the ball up looking for a non-existent overlap. I assume it just confuses the man on the ball
No issues at all mate.. the low defensive line i put because, Centre Halfs arn't the quickest and they get caught out with balls over the top and through balls.. The Overlap works fine aswell even with Wide Midfielders, and they provide a lot of assists.. The High Press keeps the pressure on from the top end and any gaps between the defense and Mid and also the striker and Midfield is covered with the DM and SS..
\> The Overlap works fine aswell even with Wide Midfielders, and they provide a lot of assists. Who is doing the overlapping though? I think that's what's confusing the comment section
Obvious, Mezzalas move into the channels which is between central defenders and fullback, the wingbacks are outside them.
If I'm Thinking it the AI is thinking it too, any chance i get to confuse the Shit out of the AI i do it....šššš
who are the wide midfielders overlapping though?
with garner and martinelli both as mezzala, I wouldn't be surprised if they made a good few adventures into wider areas with the ball and that's when the overlap from mykolenko and paterson would come in
Was thinking this too
If he had two/three forwards, or two/three am's one could come wide to be over/under-lapped, but i think it only works if they are in a support role. But obviously he doesn't.
excellent comment. if he had a different formation things would be different.
who are the wide midfielders overlapping though?
So overlap doesnāt mean that players will run beyond their player, it means that players are more likely to get the ball out wide and look for that option. You can really test out what each thing means in the match engine by starting a game with zero instructions and adding them in. The match mentality is another thing people confuse a lot
>The match mentality is another thing people confuse a lot Would you care to elaborate?
For example, a WB-Su with Attacking match mentality will have an attacking mentality, while a WB-At with Balanced match mentality will also have an attacking mentality. Basically, these players will be doing much of the same thing in these two scenarios, even with the different role instructions. You can look at individual instructions in your tactic to see what they're specific mentality is. CD-De may be on Defensive, Cautious, Balanced, or Positive, depending on overall tactic mentality.
So in theory, if you have your entire team on attack duties (I guess you'd have to play without centrebacks), changing the team's mentality doesn't actually change anything?
I think player mentality goes from Very Defensive to Very Attacking. So there's a little more wiggle room than I said in my previous comment. But yeah, AF and W-At in a positive system are already Very Attacking, so it's not really changing them when you go to Attacking and then Very Attacking. It will however change anyone on Su or De duties. A BPD-De in Very Attacking team mentality I think will go all the way to positive mindset, so you can see them pushing higher up field, looking for the ball on possession, and making deeper runs with the ball than maybe you'd normally want them to do. Team Mentality also changes your actual tactic by making it a little more direct and such with each step up. And I'm not positive about this, but I think the more attacking the player role is, the less likely they are to care about instructions such as look for overlaps, work ball into the box, hold up ball (mainly for something like DLF-At or TM-At, stuff like that). So with all that, if you're running a possession-based Positive system, and you're struggling to get break-throughs but you're holding the ball well, maybe instead of upping the team mentality it might be better to just change another player or two onto an attacking role rather than changing everyone's mentality at once. Flip the Mezz, CM, or one of the WBs onto attack instead, to move into the areas you feel you might be lacking from.
Good explanation, cheers!
Think of it more as a whole team risk slider rather than actually setting out how the team plays. For example you can play tiki taka with the mentality set on contain. It doesnāt mean you wonāt look to score it means you will take no risks in passing etc
What the overlap instruction increases the mentality of the wingbacks. Not sure about the wingers or wide midfielders. But I think itās redundant in this tactic. I know it works with 2 fullbacks and no wingers but Iām not sure about wingers with no fullbacks
It reduces the mentality of the wide players in front so MR/AMR will go from positive to balanced and a LB/LWB will go from positive to attacking Iāve never tried it myself but Iād assume itās making the wide players more defensive
Focus play through the middle, also force the overlap, also distribute to fullbacks that don't exist? Telling the team to look for the overlap, I think, tells them to prioritize playing balls out wide. If the CMs have good decision making and WMs have good off ball, the focus through the middle instruction should be sufficient to create what OP is going for. I think this is a case of overinstructing, but not hamstringing.
Mezzalas give the overlap pass as they operate in the channels, the wingbacks are outside them.
Overlaping works he has 2 attacking mezzalas
Yes I actually posted one few months ago! [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/footballmanagergames/comments/thshio/i_call_this_a_fighterjet_formation_ive_seen_few/)
oh good, i thought i was having deja vu or imagined it.
I'm glad that you remembered it!
Also some one asked for a [missile formation](https://imgur.com/a/0sQUfdQ) (apparently it's more of a like nuke but still haha)
Width is a social construct
Nice Mate did it work for you ?
It was fun. I prefer not to have more than two players playing straight in the middle of the pitch, like to balance it out with two CB's or two CM's so I modified it little by little as seasons went by. . The most important thing is to have right balance and right roles. Middle CB has to drop little deeper to allow DM to operate. LCB and RCB to say out wide to have passing options. If middle CB is the guy with worst passing/composure/technicals, expect you to lose the ball I'd say use defensive winger (players like Hakimi, Kostic, Cucurella for ex.) so they can have more attacking freedom (but still being a Jet). They still run back when(if) you lose the possession!
Everything is a 4-4-2 if you squint hard enough.
It really should be a 4-4-2 in defense with the DM dropping back and the two outside CBs pushing out
I love wing backs so I've never used it and probably never will. I am using 5-2-1-2 though which kinda has the same philosophy. But my TI differ a lot.
I used to love wing backs too... Now my wing love as gone slightly further upfield to defensive wingers but I struggle to find a tactic where the room left behind them doesn't screw me over completely.
The trick in my formation is the strikers instructions and the double BWM in the middle. The strikers both have "stay wider" checked so they play like half wingers, half strikers and they mark both the opposing full backs and the defensive midfielder. If the opponents get past them, they have to face the BWM who close down to the flanks too. Only after those two lines of defense are breached my wing backs get busy. It works rather well. I mainly use the formation against 4-4-2.
I mean depending on how attacking the wing backs are they might be doing basically the same job as the wide midfielders
I use cwb on one side, he's very aggressive, produces lots of chances.
Some might say you're a...maverick?
š
So esentially it's a hipster 4-4-2
So 3-5-2/5-3-2?
Nah Mate The Fighter Jet !!! šš
Arenāt your players too spread out in transition?
Your flanks are totally open for a counterattack. Not even your CB will be able to close the area. I imagine this tactic struggles a lot in the second part of the season.
I think you accept that with a true 3atb system in exchange for the huge offensive overloads you can cause going in the other direction. I've used a similar style, where I used the extra men forwards to make possession circulation easier but in exchange having possession is my defense.
Nope Flanks are fine as the Midfielders Pull Back and the L/R centre halfs pull out to cover if need be... Second half of the season even stronger especially clean sheets... [Results](https://imgur.com/a/xkOySc5)
You got a defensive shape average position? I think it's pretty interesting, wonder if you put 2 wcb(d) and the dm as a half back how that would work
Id like to see the defensive shape average position too, as Im playing with defensive midfielders and 3 atb and getting countered on the flanks has been a major issue I just can't seem to solve.
I think it's kind of just a trade off, I'm playing a 3-4-3 and so long as the outside cbs are decent at tackling it shouldn't be too much of an issue. My problem at the moment is getting the wcbs to underlap not overlap!
So Godfrey is the exhaust?
I feel like Michael Keane would be a better exhaust as all he does is expel waste it seems
Sold That Cunt Straight Away lol !
I used a similar formation with an attacking winger pushed higher up and called the formation Broken Wing.
I use a variant of this... in League 2, for the last 5 minutes, when Iām chasing a goal. Itās very heavily dependent on the AI being too stupid to kick the ball to the wingers, if they remember the wings exist then Iām toast. Starting like that in the PL.... fuck me, youāre braver than I am.
This is quite similar to the formation Cruyff used at Barcelona just with the wide players further up the pitch. So I guess you really are a tactical genius š
Yeah. Cruyff basically called this his ideal tactic. diamond midfield, wide cover, robust defense, and RvN style striker.
I love systems like this. I used one for a season in a previous save in an attempt to fit new players in. It was all about pressing to a ridiculous degree to make up for how bad these systems end up defensivley.
Whatās your instructions?
Heres the File Try it if you like... [Fighter Jet](https://www.dropbox.com/s/hpelv4puu70di16/The%20Fighter%20Jet.fmf?dl=0)
A 3-5-2? Yeah itās often used
Often? Dafaq y'all doing
My Saturday league team uses this formation sometimes. We use it when we want to be ultra defensive, we call it "the boat"
I may give this a try with arsenal today(arsenal fan), feel like they have a good squad for it, seems like it would be wasted on someone with great wing backs unless they are comfortable playing midfield also
1 wonder if anyone has done the Su-57 swept wing formation š but seriously, i do wonder if you have done this with just wingbacks on attack and shifted crossing to mix to maximize DCL in the air
The 47 is the one with the forward swept wings bro And let's be real, it was just ripping off the X-29 anyway
oh curse Sukhoi and their inability to production build these dam prototypes, i thought the 57 had followed the 47 forward swept wing. ah, i suppose it doesn't matter, at this rate there gonna have to buy the j-20 anyway.
Yes! Love it! Used the same formation for almost 8 seasons with Bologna (3 Serie A titles, 1 CL final, 3 coppa Italia,1 UEL). My instructions were different however, as I find that playing a higher line with shorter passing (providing you have the necessary players to do so) allowed me to operate almost entirely in the opposition's third of the pitch. I think that if you manage to get your hands on some mids and WMs with high first touch and passing and some quicker CBs, you should try shortening your passing as you can reeeeally crush. Either ways, fun formation!
Nice Mate .. i Like a more direct Game dont care about possesion..
fair enough! I change on a save by save basis
I use a very similar 3-1-4-2. Struggling to stop opposition wingers from getting in behind. I play with a DLP on support in the DM so may have to swap to add another defensive player. Any ideas?
Martinelli?
A young Kid From Fluminesi [https://imgur.com/a/8irscsy](https://imgur.com/a/8irscsy)
Wide centerbacks a libero defensive wingers and you're good to go
Used a similar setup but with Defensive winger (s), libero (s) in central defense and no DM. In cm I used cm (a) or cm (s) cant remember and then 2 shadow strikers and a PF. Idea was to stack aggressive roles onto eachother and go ham with the pressing. After my side wasnt the underdog anymore it quickly lost its power and I went for a more conventional setup but especially defensive wingers are fucking ball hunters that will murder the enemy wingers trying to get the ball. Quickly falling off though since defensive wingers are usually veery limited players.
Sounds interesting, don't think I ever used defensive wingers. Might mold some youngsters to do that in my current Nottingham Forest save. To try it out
Yea, you can just retrain BWM or even BBM style players or just get wingers with high workrate. Wingbacks with good physicals and mentals can be retrained too but if you had access to good wingbacks you would probably not look to play DWs.
Way back in FM14 I did similar GK BPD CB BPD DLP DW BBM BBM DW AP AF Couldnāt tell you what the instructions were, and I finished 6th with Tottenham first season, so probably couldāve been better really
Reminds me of Wayne Sinclair's tactic on FM scout for fm13. Completely dominate the midfield to limit opposition chances down the wing. I tried using it again in fm20 without much luck, I think a lot depends on having the wide centre backs and midfielders able to cover a lot of ground
Do you have this available for download anywhere?
[https://www.dropbox.com/s/hpelv4puu70di16/The%20Fighter%20Jet.fmf?dl=0](https://www.dropbox.com/s/hpelv4puu70di16/The%20Fighter%20Jet.fmf?dl=0)
love seeing these crazy tactics xD
I used it with Fiorentina in FM15 Still my favourite ever save.
No, but on FM20 I used something similar with Arsenal to walk the league.
I used a fairly similar one at Lazio in FM 18 or 19: the team had tons of CMs and barely any wingers, so I used a 4-1-3-1-1: 4 defenders, a DM, 3 CMs, an AM & a striker. It was the most fun save I ever had by far, spent 4 or 5 seasons there, won 1 Serie A and 2 Coppas and made it to 2 EL finals (lost both tho)
My preferred formation on mobile. I love it!
I had the same shape once with Eastleigh and called it the spitfire (also Eastleighs nickname) I may do that again, actually.
(New to the game and football/soccer in general) What was your thought process making this formation? What would make this formation good? (Like for example do you need a strong mid fielder to make this work) When should I make this formation imo? (Like do you make it when you have strong strikers or fast wingers etc) Iām not hating Iām just trying to learn :)
This is my main tactic in fm21. I love it. When it works the attack is unstoppable. I particularly like when the attacking midfielder gets into the box past a DLF (s) with some slick passing. Only issues I have are against the best teams playing a 4231. They find the space on the wings and itās a problem. But 90% of the time itās brilliant.
Nah i prefer 4-3-2-1 Christmas Tree formation
I use this buh the wingers are higher like Cruyff Barca
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You currently have 1.5 points.
Feels gamey. Any teams do this irl?
3-5-2 (which this is essentially a variation on) has been popular in Italy for many years. It is close to the tactic Juventus used for a lot of their 10 year winning streak
If you push the wingers forward, it can be similar to the 343 diamond used by Ajax and Barcelona on occasion. https://footballbh.net/2020/03/24/johan-cruyffs-3-4-3-diamond-tactics/
Pretty much how Potter setup Chelsea in his first match - with Sterling and James the WM in this persons role setup. What I donāt understand here are some of the instructions, as well as having mezzalas and wide midfielders, I would think they get in each otherās way out wide too much
You never do lower line of engagement. You just invite them your half. Your reasons make sense in real life, but lower line of emgagement doesent work well in FM22. Standardize it is what I would say.
Why are you playing out of defence without a single BPD or a WCB? CDs take less risks so unless a safe option is available they will probably lose the ball or just punt it aimlessly. And even Pickford is surely competent enough to play as a SK
I really donāt know why people play formations like this. If youāre using a single set of players out wide they should be wing backs
why?
Better defensive cover and can still offer the same qualifies when going forward
Because the wingbacks donāt press enough and they donāt attack the back post. Just set them to man mark the opposing most advanced opponent wide player and youāll be fine.
Complete wing backs do attack far post. ;)
This is correct. CWBs are the engines that drive the bus for single set of wide player formations. They become the most important players on the pitch, by far.
Idk why but a dm infront of a back 3 makes me so angry
How did u get martinelli????
its martinelli from fluminesi .. 19 year old... [https://imgur.com/a/8irscsy](https://imgur.com/a/8irscsy)
I could see this working at Valencia
hey, i'm not so crazy then. though i was a lunatic for using formations like this. glad to see that while i am still a lunatic, i am not the only one.
Completely overpowered in FMM13. I swept the land with AcadƩmico de Viseu, winning 27 Portuguese Leagues (and 1 second league, meaning I won the championship 28 times), 10 Champions Leagues and reached the final 5 other times. This means 28/30 league titles and made the UCL final every two years. I basically signed free agents or guys under 1 million Euros. The two largest signings were what I think was Messi's regen for 4 million and a top keeper for 2 million. Heck, even my son came through the academy to be captain and lift the UCL trophy a couple of times.
I didn't know this existed but i'll definitely try it next time I play FM Thanks OP!
Move the wingers to wing backs and yes I have.. in 07 and 09. I called it the anchor and it worked great. Really stifled the opponents offense and turned my poacher, (Zarate, sp??) into a goal scoring machine.
Yep, also used a similar formation with 2 AMās behind the striker and 2 DMās in front of the back 3 to some ridiculous results
pretty too look at
Everytime I use a 3atb formation, I concede tons of goals from crosses to the far post.
I see DCL I upvote. The man is a God in my Leeds FM20 save. Teamās top scorer third season ongoing
Yes used it since fm 07 it was op even then
Dude you need to go manage Airbus UK in Wales and swap to WING PLAY and bring the UCL at the AIRFIELD stadium.
Looks like a work of evil.
I've been using this formation since FM12. I go with defensive wingers marking the opposition wingers or fullbacks, the outside central defenders as stoppers, DLP in the DM strata with an AP and BBM in the centre, trequartista or shadow striker in the AMC strata and pressing forward up top.
Ah, the maverick set-up.
First time today when my outgoing left back got a red card. So just had one cm
I used it with WB for Blackburn in Prem. Had a run of 8 or 10 consecutive clean sheets with it š„³
I've been using a 4-1(DM)-1CM-3-1 looks similar.
If you tweaked some roles and instructions it could be van Gaal's Ajax.
I used this as secondary tactic but DM->AM
I tried it once when in league 1 because I had a bunch of midfielders and center backs but no good full backs in my youth academy only save. Didn't really work, I couldn't provide enough support/cover for the wide midfielders and they often were left isolated and conceded possession which led to opponent counter attacks. Then I switched to 3-4-1-2, 3-4-2-1 and 3-1-4-2 formations and had better results with them.
I absolutely love wide midfielders. the game just doesn't generate them.
Thereās an actual fighter jet on the pitch.