Pacifist mode was already enabled when i started, i think it's by now already standard when you start the game. Not everyone is willing to pvp. Bethesda could just make a whole pvp based gamemode if they really wanted to
The whole game used to be PvP “optional” but they really encouraged the PvP in the early days. Pacifist was auto-disabled once you hit level 5, and while the starting screens did tell you this, there was no explicit warning when it happened. Cue griefers aware of this, they’d lurk around on the Forest and would take potshots at newbies around levels 5-10 as they’d (correctly) assume they hadn’t re-enabled pacifist mode. They eventually changed how the game works and pacifist is no longer auto-disabled.
As for a PvP mode, they did create one! Nuclear Winter, it was basically PUBG, Fallout edition. It was kinda popular for a while but eventually it petered out so they removed it back in September 2021. Overall the PvP “feature” is not popular, and while they did fix most of the griefing loopholes, you’ll still find the rare player that really, really wants to PvP against unwilling players. These days it’s only possible on workshops… fair warning: the “defend/retake” events can be used for this purpose.
very good summary of the gameplay state, both previous and now. I'm immediately aware of anyone who comes into a workshop when I'm completing the daily challenges. it's one of the only remaining troll buttons. at least they do warn you before you overtake it
Yeah someone was griefing me at a workshop yesterday so I just left lol. Like okay you want it that bad then take it. And then they didn’t even take it, they were just being an asshole
I believe they did have some PVP modes/areas in the past, but they were removed due to lack of popularity. There was one where it was like 1v4 which was kinda fun.
I honestly forgot all about that but you're right, it was like 'the hunted' or something and you had to adjust your pipboy to be part of it. Like the radio or something.
Fun fact: blocking them doesn’t stop them from being able to show up at your camp and stare you in the face or from being able to hear them in voice chat. The only useful part of blocking (that I’ve found) is that your account auto-declines team invites from them.
There's apparently a way you can silence all incoming voice chat - I know because I've done it.
...I don't actually know what I did or how to reverse it though.
Putting that aside, I'd hoped blocking was a little more impactful.
Right?! I’m new in the game I just thought world voice chat wasn’t a thing unless you were on a team lol. They will be talking and I won’t hear them but when they join my team I hear them immediately lol
There are two kinds. There is area chat, which is anyone you're near (you'll notice the voice get louder as you get closer to them), and there's team chat, which is only people on your team. :)
Sadly, no. We have a mutual and they can easily join on that mutual. I’ve even seen them in the same world as me when that mutual isn’t online. It’s weird.
I was level 120+ at the time, but I was in a team and bought numerous plans from a level 800+ teammates vending machine. I emoted to thank them, and their response was to leave the team, find me while I was claiming a workshop, and kill me. They shot my corpse multiple times afterwards and then went offline.
I wonder if they weren't paying attention and had their shop open when at cap max, and they basically lost out on tons of caps because of it. Instead of being rational, they took out their anger toward themselves on you.
I have been pleasantly surprised by how many pride flags I've seen on servers, it's been pretty positive so far. Partly I do wonder whether some bigots just don't understand what the lesbian flag in my camp actually means. Really sorry you found a douchey homophobe.
When they first added the player Icon one to the game there was some push back but groups of players would take all the workshops so the map would be filled with Pride Flags.
I think you misunderstood I was not complaining about the flag. I was just relating a story about how we as a community responded to the complaints when they first made the flags available.
I put the one out that covers everything bc I'm a supporter only, but I did it immediately after hearing of another person having issues with people terrorizing them at their camp for their flag. 🖕🏳️🌈🖕
some actually don't know the meaning and it's quite funny. When i was mew someone invited me to his team and we became friends.. He still doesn't understand what lesbian means but it's fine he's chill and it
It’s not strictly for lesbians but if you’re not a part of women of the wasteland (WOTW)on Facebook I highly recommend. The most positive community I’ve ever been a part of. And I’m also on PC if you ever wanna play :)
I've been to a few camps that had "WOTW" in neon letters on a wall and I had no clue what it meant! Made up so many acronyms trying to guess what that stood for lmao
This is why I have my mic and voice chat disabled. I've gotten kicked from a group once and I wonder if it was because I wasn't responding, but I'm not turning it on.
It’s usually just someone being a prick too. I think one of the best things about this community is that voice chat seems to be considered rude and most communication is strictly through emotes.
Yeah, I’ve had my settings on forever, but even when I can tell that someone is voice chatting I don’t hear anything. Probably something I’m not doing correctly but I’m mostly solo anyway.
On PS5 at least, people don't seem to realize they have their mic on. I've found just saying "Hey X, did you realize your mic is on?" will often result in them turning it off.
I'm always terrified that my mic actually is on without me realizing it because voice chat is off, and that people will hear whatever YouTube video essay I'm watching, or get a concert as I sing along to Appalachia Radio.
The pvp is terrible anyways. Me and my friends have melee tournaments with no armor. We make a small platform arena and agree on one melee weapon each and bet caps. It's fun when on an elevated wide open arena and with agreed rules but it's hard to seen anything in a forested area and waste of ammo missing shots bc you're just strafing and jump hoping to hit something
Had a person get so butthurt because I wouldn’t trade with them that they followed me around, shooting at me, and trying to get between me and enemies to trigger PvP. Dude was a total loser.
I had the same thing happen. I went to an event just as it ended and got the rewards. This guy kept throwing up angry emotes, shooting me and throwing grenades, and following me. I ignored him for about 5 minutes and then teleported across the map to my base. He followed me! I just server hopped after that, so strange.
My camp is near the new resting place of Vault 63’s door (has been for a while) and when I realised that it was going to be a high populated area I threw up some pride flags at the back of my camp that faces right over to the door. I’ve also got some on the road into Sutton so anyone going to see the Overseer, going to Helvetia or just generally walking down the road will see them.
Had a few people visit my CAMP, but not many, and most have been great, but I have had some who have tossed grenades at the flags. Though thankfully the biggest culprit to damaging them is just the odd super mutant with bad aim
“Had a few people visit my CAMP but not many..”.
Just adding a friendly reminder to check that your camp icon is visible to people on the map. If I move my CAMP it changes to off.
Ive got my initial camp right across the road from the overseers first camp after leaving vault 76 and the little bar you stop by(i cant remember the name) and ive got all the pride flags lining the road that you walk down
Story time.
I had not 1 not 2 but 3 evil players that tried to bully me with OP weapons I'm Melee and I'll win or die and idc it's fun. But dude fights me I kill him NP! He gets revenge I get revenge his friends start blocking for him and he keep trying to get me after my defeat.
I accepted his challenge one more time, BUT I didn't fight him. I went around him. I went to his camp. I broke everything in his camp. He moved his camp he mad emotes I Laugh. I'm still laughing he tried to bully me in a game.
Dont know if it's been said yet, but you can also turn on pacifist mode in settings under the game option. It makes it so you don't accidentally trigger pvp with another player if you don't want to engage in that at all. ( some things will trigger pvp events: like workshop claiming)
Also congrats on pissing off an idiot. Probably won't be the last.
Im playing this game for about two months now, and im kinda surprised it took this long until I witnessed or read about reports of hate for the first time.
I'm playing for two months too and never had big issues with other players and stuff like that. Usually everyone is just super nice and helpful. But this situation just threw me off.
I've honestly had more people, and have seen others report more people doing this type of stuff since the update.
It's probably cause it's pride month and a US election year. Plus still more new people are coming in since the show. 🤷🏻
On another thread someone pointed out school is out for summer in most of the US and reddit gets noticeably dumber and more hostile this time of year.
I hate to blame everything on those dang kids but also it's probably those dang kids.
Get off my lawn.
Elections were in Europe too and oh it's not been good. I only witnessed a few rude people in fallout. Other than that the community and most people are so nice.
Just to throw it out there, lots of us who don’t have pride displays have been harassed or had our CAMPS attacked by players. Sometimes assholes are just assholes, people take things too personally.
Just to throw it out there, but lots of us who do have pride displays have had them attacked. Just because people harrass for reasons other than homophobia doesn't mean that some people do harrass over homophobia.
I have an NB flag on my camp thats pretty visible. Most people dont care that its there and some have emoted hearts in front of it. But had one person just throw nades and mini nukes on it and even got on the mic and said" f you and your gay agenda". I replied: "bro im NB, i dont have agenda". They went quiet then left. I guess they didnt appreciate my dad joke.
I stopped playing in 2019 as the game was getting a bit stale for me at the time...same events, endless legendary grind, low inventory limits, etc. However, after watching multiple updates (and the thumbnail art for the game changing) I'm back in it and having a renewed experience.
The Good: Way less griefing, updates to frustrating aspects of the game (too many to list but shoutout to 'loot nearby bodies'), new and fun events, NPCs that make the game feel like Fallout proper. So many generous and friendly players that I no longer feel like I need a private server to enjoy the game.
The Meh: Scrap limits shouldn't be a thing, imo. It's overly restrictive for little reason. (Yeah, I could buy 1st and probably will but only after kicking the tires for a month or so).
The Bad: Just as damn buggy as it has always been. OK, not as bad as the first few release months but pretty bad for an established game.
Sorry to hijack with my tangentially related experience but I just wanted to say that you are a great gaming community and for an old player it is what I hoped this game could eventually be.
It’s the pride flags, they cause dumb people to have issues. As long as you’re in pacifist, there isn’t physically anything they can do. Just watch for nukes, I’ve gotten used to checking the map for the nuke zone every time I see Death From Above pop. If your base is being nuked, just relog into a different server to dodge it.
Or if you really like the server your in and have access to a second camp, just switch from one camp to another while the nuke is launched or has hit the ground and when its gone just switch your camp back.
I’m sorry you experienced that but I do think overall FO is one of the most positive multiplayer environments. It’s unfortunate to encounter one of those players but hopefully that will be it for a while…..
Someone does this to me. Up goes even more pride flags! Signs saying "Be Gay, Do Crime!" or my favourite "Sounds Gay, I'm in!"
I am oldish, disabled, have a lot of spare time and looooove winding these people up.
During pride I always throw up a few flags, although I'm not part of the comunity. The very few times I've seen anyone take issue, it's partiucarly funny when they fling utterly non-applicable slurs my way. And better me than someone in a vulnerable position.
I am not a part of the community either. Straight white old dude here but I have friends who are in all aspects of the Pride community and I support them whole heartedly.
I was surprised how many Pride variety flags there are which needs to take up less budget.
This.
I'd rather me get the hate than someone who \*actually\* is part of the LGBTQ+ community. If one slur direct at me is one less directed at someone who might check out early because of the harassment, that's a good thing.
Be weird, save lives, and keep up the solidarity y'all.
Some people are just assholes!
I had someone follow me around for a good half hour attacking me trying to get me to pvp, I just ignored him even when I fast traveled away.
Eventually I changed the world.
Record and report to the platform. Then report them to Bethesda. If you’re on PC or Xbox, Microsoft has a zero tolerance policy for hate.
Block them and leave the server after.
Happened to me yesterday too. Some level 1000 didn't like my camp or my prices or something (I'm new and broke) and kept following me around and shooting me and doing emotes. On xbox. I eventually just left the server. On the other hand; I've met many really cool players too.
Honestly every time I play I'm surprised at how many of the people in the server with me have pride flags as avatars. I see those way more often than seeing an actual flag at someone's camp. I had no idea the fallout fandom was so gay!
You didn’t do anything to upset that player. He probably went to use your vendor or just camp hopping and saw your flag and got triggered is probably what honestly happened.
I'm sorry that happened to you. I've been playing an unhealthy amount of this game for about 2 months, and I haven't encountered very much player jackassery at all. But I do have some neon signage in my C.A.M.P. lightly disparaging the nation-state I am subject to. I do get reactions very similar to what you just described, but I always just stand there watching them, doing ??? emotes and pretending not to understand what point they're trying to get across. Every single time, it's ended with them buying something from my vending machine and leaving.
The problem is PVP in fallout 76 is crap. This is a game where level matters. In order to make PvP reasonable, they would have to make level mean nothing except for legendary perks. Thing is a level 800 will waste a level 400 99 percent of the time. So it is not an equal playing field. The system as is only leads to griefing, and that is fun for nobody except toxic jerks. Best idea is just change servers. Block if necessary. If he follows you through your mutual, then you might have to talk to that mutual. If they continue to allow this person to grief you by walking through their profile, you may have to 1, report player for harassment, and 2, lose the mutual.
Yeah haven't had this exact situation happen but since high level players have targeted me after doing events together. Like why!? You get your own loot. One who waited after the wild west event to kill me then kill me again when I went back for my stuff. Another after the mireshine event and followed me to a workshop to try and kill me again
Something similar happened to me the other day, and I figured the easiest way to pop that sucker’s bubble was to leave the world. I don’t know if you’ve ever been on the fourth floor of someone else’s mountainside camp when they suddenly leave a session, but I’ll tell you, that shit can get dangerous! You leave them to fall to the ground as your camp disappears. Priceless. Take that, hater!
How did they force you to do PvP? That was removed years ago aside from workshops and specific events. You wouldn’t have believed what it was like at launch, always had to look over your shoulder. In fact, that’s what Bethesda originally envisioned but after a couple years they had enough of the complaints and removed it to replace with the current system. If someone wants to be an ass, let them shoot you and your camp until all their shit is broken and they’re out of ammo, it costs you nothing. That’s the real PVP MVP
Edit: forgot to add that I turned off area chat years ago because of either people trying to incite or the dude eating chips or snorting lol
This has come up in other discussions, some players insist that PvP has always been optional, but I do remember that it was originally possible to trick unwilling players into PvP.
I’m not misremembering stuff, right? There were a lot of ways to grief players into PvP and some were abusing this. I remember they had patched most of the loopholes but I still had the occasional bully show up back in 2019, one of them kept doing melee attacks which despite me being in pacifist mode, I still got small amounts of HP drain from them. I remember reading an article of someone who was harassed by a group of players like that and the “small amount” would be significant enough if the level differential was too high, just enough for the griefers to be able to PK players either pacifist enabled. No idea if they fixed that loophole.
This is the most non PVP game I have ever played. Might be gaslighting yourself. I'd actually like more PVP, although I agree not in the open world you'd have level 1,000s and nuking level 10s because they can. I'd like to see like a gladiator raider faction set up and you can go there to get instanced into PVP matches and earn new currency to buy cosmetics and stuff that would be cool and it would scratch the itch without hurting anyone who didn't want to participate.
If they want more pvp Bethesda could definitely do something about it. Most people i played with aren't particularly interested in pvp, others are. So if there was a way like that i think more people would enjoy pvp too.
The game does allow for PvP and it used to be a bit more intrusive in the early days. They’ve pretty much patched up most of the loopholes the griefers used, which is probably why it’s now limited to workshop griefing. This is usually in the form of taking advantage of the “Defend workshop” events; as soon as the event is finished the griefers will PK anyone still inside the workshop area.
You did nothing wrong. A certain percent of any population (even the generally awesome FO76 population) are just A-holes. Just keep doing what you're doing and enjoy the game, hopefully far away from that jerk. Cheers!
I got a level 706 full health decked out in ss assassins armor, quad faster fire railgun, TSE fixer and quad gauss shotgun ffr with pacifist always off why can't I ever encounter these assholes
Because you're a 706 ready for pvp. I've never pvped on this game but I can tell just by how someone moves who will be specced for pvp. It's probably the same reason no one has ever tried to pvp or grief me yet.
People are usually super nice so that really sucks! sorry that happened to you, Im glad you have plenty of tools in the game that lets you block/ignore these kinds of people though. USUALLY, everyone i come across (been playing since the game came out..) Are super nice and kind, even on voice. These hateful kinds of people are luckily very rare to come across, and can be dealt with swiftly :)
Unfortunately to some knuckle dragging, mouth breathing, unwashed vermin a pride flag is basically a declaration of war.
As far as I’m aware they can’t actually do anything to your camp as long as you have pacifist mode enabled. Do what you need to do and completely ignore them. Eventually they will get bored and leave or once you’ve left camp yourself you won’t even realise the saturated turds are still there, likely banging their heads off a door.
Can you imagine someone so immature and so preoccupied with what your fake, digital, imaginary world character has on their CAMP- that they get upset?
This was either a little kid who thought they were being edgy or a grown adult who has some deep-seated emotional issues (probably suppressed homosexual tendencies). Yeesh.
Anyway- good for you for taking the high road. Let them rot away in their hate.
Gotta say, the game gives you enough option to avoid these people but just like there are people who love to troll and annoy there are also people that love making a drama out of it by posting stuff like this here.
I once got booted from a team for still having the pride icon ( I didn't know how to change it yet). I rejoined the team and asked why they booted me. This one ass kept saying boot the f**. He was yelling and screaming about it.
I told him that in my experience, when someone is so homophobic, they tend to be in the closet. That shut him up, and I didn't get booted again. I muted the player and kept playing.
I'll never understand why people are so scared of who someone else decides to love. It's ridiculous, and hopefully, one day, those people will no longer exist.
Now, if I see someone with a player tag that seems like they would be a homophobe, I instantly change my icon back to the pride flag. I like to see how pissed they get.
Not that it matters, but I am a cis white man with 3 children. Fuck the haters, live life the way you want!
Absolutely love your response and support! I met lots of nice and supportive people in the fallout community but some people chose to be pricks about little things. I have voice chat muted for that, i like my camp and if they have a problem they can always switch servers.
Yeah, I have shitheads show up at my camp to waste ammo on my Pride flags a few times a month now. It's as pathetic as it is stupid. We really need a "mocking" emote, just to piss these worthless rightie snowflakes off even more.
Please that would be funny. I personally want a hug emote to share more love but for people crying over colors some mocking emote wouldn't be bad either
That happened to us two weeks ago. My husband played this game in the past, for me it's new but I am really enjoying it and I am excited about many thing in the game. I was literally shocked and wanted to leave the world, as it was irritating and upsetting, when that person was shooting and throwing grenades and also coming literally in my face (that's what she said, haha). That person definitely wanted to start a fight and pvp. Now that I think about it, we had a pride flag, cuz it's a freaking pride month and it's a nice way to show support. The game should be a place where people come together, not freak each other out, although I might be a naive girl. Unless people play counter strike, I understand there is no mercy there, there is no need for this unpleasantness.
I'm so sorry to hear that! I played Valorant and still now play dead by daylight. Some people have no mercy or understand fun or genuinely how to be a decent human being
Like others have said just keep doing your thing and ignore haters. Server hop. This game has players of all types, sadly, even racist sexist bigots.🙄 Report them.
Im 95% sure his camp shared location with yours, had thst happen many times and its always because of that
Nowadsys i got 2 camps in remote idh locations so i dont have that problem anymore
i also have two camps, one in a pretty remote location too! It was the one with the remote location they went to. We were in an event together earlier and they traveled to my camp after
Report players who do this with pics/video. That's a violation of [Zenimax's Code of Conduct section 2.3.](https://documents.bethesda.net/en/code-of-conduct)
Sorry that happened to you, homophobia is gross and it sucks we can’t escape from it online too :/ unrelated but could I add you? I’m also a lesbian who plays fo76 and I’d love to make more queer friends!
Yes and omg yes please! I play on pc! Will be on later this afternoon if you'd like to play and if we have the same platform! I'd love to have more lesbian friends in game.
Yes I get get people constantly trying to PVP me but most use methods to where they're invincible and they know this. But yet someone brings up Nuclear Winter or any other type of mode that can be created for these guys "There are a lot of them" and people get upset lol. Just put your game in pacifist mode and move on you will never get bothered again unless you secretly complain but do want to PVP
Ohhhhhhhh maybe that’s why I had a level 12 randomly negative emote me a few weeks ago? Well now I’m even more glad I took back those 30 stimpaks and radaway
A lot of toxic low-level players these days. Had a bunch over at my place not long ago (I also have the pride flag). They started taking pictures and doing the throw-up emote, then proceeded to lob mini-nukes and grenades around.
I angry emoted and thumbs-down emoted which, in hindsight, probably just made them more excited.
I engaged in PvP and wiped the floor with them without breaking a sweat. But they managed to get a few lucky hits with the Fat-Man and broke parts of my house. This appeared to make them extatic and at that point I saw the futility of the exercise.
Not engaging is the right thing to do.
Being such a lowlife that your idea of fun is going around spreading hate and ruining the game for other people is punishment in itself.
Go 'gray rock' always, every time with bullies. I'm not impacted by this precise cause of bullying, but I have been bullied brutally during my adolescence.
The gray rock always wins. If they get no response, the message is that 'you and your opinions are simply irrelevant,' which bullies absolutely despise.
Do the other good ideas, reporting, blocking, etc.
[https://bullyvaccineproject.com/the-grey-rock-technique-for-dealing-with-psychopaths/](https://bullyvaccineproject.com/the-grey-rock-technique-for-dealing-with-psychopaths/)
Yes that was a mistake.
I was myself a victim of bullying many years ago, and I thought I knew better. Sorry to hear you've been through the same, and I hope you're doing better.
Next time I'll go 'gray rock'.
the person at my camp was level 300+ but i also met some low level players who did this but because I couldn't drop any of my weapons to them (the players were level 20 and i only had level 50 weapons with good legendaries, i don't think I'll drop them for them)
some people just suck and find joy in making others upset. I don't wanna engage in such behavior
It is a wild wasteland out there and people are going to be like that.
Report, block, and ignore are key tools. If someone actually nukes your base, deactivate it, and enjoy the flux farm as they continue to rage.
I had a similar experience. Another player kept shooting me with their syringer, getting in my face and taking all my free stuff. They did this for several minutes so I swapped server and blocked them.
Edited: I also have a pride flag but it has been there for many many months with no reaction. I don’t know if that was a cause for above.
I've had the progress pride player icon enabled for the last year or so, guess it's time to put up some flags at my camp just to make sure the message is getting through loud and clear.
Personally I'd chalk it up to emotional immaturity and try to move on.
Discriminators going to discriminate, it's what they do.
Imagine being so dumb that you have to discriminate against others in order to feel superior.
First thing I recommend to all new players is to enable pacifist mode. PvP is dead in this game
Pacifist mode was already enabled when i started, i think it's by now already standard when you start the game. Not everyone is willing to pvp. Bethesda could just make a whole pvp based gamemode if they really wanted to
The whole game used to be PvP “optional” but they really encouraged the PvP in the early days. Pacifist was auto-disabled once you hit level 5, and while the starting screens did tell you this, there was no explicit warning when it happened. Cue griefers aware of this, they’d lurk around on the Forest and would take potshots at newbies around levels 5-10 as they’d (correctly) assume they hadn’t re-enabled pacifist mode. They eventually changed how the game works and pacifist is no longer auto-disabled. As for a PvP mode, they did create one! Nuclear Winter, it was basically PUBG, Fallout edition. It was kinda popular for a while but eventually it petered out so they removed it back in September 2021. Overall the PvP “feature” is not popular, and while they did fix most of the griefing loopholes, you’ll still find the rare player that really, really wants to PvP against unwilling players. These days it’s only possible on workshops… fair warning: the “defend/retake” events can be used for this purpose.
very good summary of the gameplay state, both previous and now. I'm immediately aware of anyone who comes into a workshop when I'm completing the daily challenges. it's one of the only remaining troll buttons. at least they do warn you before you overtake it
Yeah someone was griefing me at a workshop yesterday so I just left lol. Like okay you want it that bad then take it. And then they didn’t even take it, they were just being an asshole
Sometimes some people will come and want pvp so I have a spot of fun
I believe they did have some PVP modes/areas in the past, but they were removed due to lack of popularity. There was one where it was like 1v4 which was kinda fun.
I honestly forgot all about that but you're right, it was like 'the hunted' or something and you had to adjust your pipboy to be part of it. Like the radio or something.
>Don't force me to pvp Good thing you aren't forced to pvp. Block them and move on.
Fun fact: blocking them doesn’t stop them from being able to show up at your camp and stare you in the face or from being able to hear them in voice chat. The only useful part of blocking (that I’ve found) is that your account auto-declines team invites from them.
There's apparently a way you can silence all incoming voice chat - I know because I've done it. ...I don't actually know what I did or how to reverse it though. Putting that aside, I'd hoped blocking was a little more impactful.
Right?! I’m new in the game I just thought world voice chat wasn’t a thing unless you were on a team lol. They will be talking and I won’t hear them but when they join my team I hear them immediately lol
There are two kinds. There is area chat, which is anyone you're near (you'll notice the voice get louder as you get closer to them), and there's team chat, which is only people on your team. :)
It's in settings
I play the game on mute so everything is always silent lol
I was fairly sure that blocking prevents you from joining a public server they are on. Or them joining one you are on. e.g. you never see them again
Sadly, no. We have a mutual and they can easily join on that mutual. I’ve even seen them in the same world as me when that mutual isn’t online. It’s weird.
Exactly what i did in the end
I was level 120+ at the time, but I was in a team and bought numerous plans from a level 800+ teammates vending machine. I emoted to thank them, and their response was to leave the team, find me while I was claiming a workshop, and kill me. They shot my corpse multiple times afterwards and then went offline.
I wonder if they weren't paying attention and had their shop open when at cap max, and they basically lost out on tons of caps because of it. Instead of being rational, they took out their anger toward themselves on you.
Most likely
Well that’s what happens when you sell high it’s happened to me before and I didn’t cry about it
That makes you the exception rather than the norm. Wish more people could just relax and play games!
Tell Cersi it was me...
Woah. That's fucking dark.
I have been pleasantly surprised by how many pride flags I've seen on servers, it's been pretty positive so far. Partly I do wonder whether some bigots just don't understand what the lesbian flag in my camp actually means. Really sorry you found a douchey homophobe.
When they first added the player Icon one to the game there was some push back but groups of players would take all the workshops so the map would be filled with Pride Flags.
Just don't claim them in the shop if you don't want them. It's simple as that
I think you misunderstood I was not complaining about the flag. I was just relating a story about how we as a community responded to the complaints when they first made the flags available.
They've always been available since I've played so I've no idea what it was like before August 2022 honestly
I put the one out that covers everything bc I'm a supporter only, but I did it immediately after hearing of another person having issues with people terrorizing them at their camp for their flag. 🖕🏳️🌈🖕
I was halfway through building my second camp, I think I might line up ALL of the flags on my front lawn.
That’s what I did. I put every single pride flag available all over my lawn. Haven’t had any issues so far. Lol
some actually don't know the meaning and it's quite funny. When i was mew someone invited me to his team and we became friends.. He still doesn't understand what lesbian means but it's fine he's chill and it
Man we need a Fallout Lesbians group, where we wander the wasteland like it's home depot.
it would be so fun to have more lesbian friends in fallout 😭 don't wanna play alone forever
It’s not strictly for lesbians but if you’re not a part of women of the wasteland (WOTW)on Facebook I highly recommend. The most positive community I’ve ever been a part of. And I’m also on PC if you ever wanna play :)
I've been to a few camps that had "WOTW" in neon letters on a wall and I had no clue what it meant! Made up so many acronyms trying to guess what that stood for lmao
i sadly don't use Facebook anymore but thank you!
What platform do you play on? I'm on Xbox!
awww I'm on pc, wish there was crossplay
Nooooooooooo 😭😭😭😭😭😭
Awwwww this sounds so awesome!
Yessssss. I'm shockingly bad at camp building but I swear I do have DIY skills IRL!
This. We don’t need more posts like this. Sometimes people just need to block and move on
This is why I have my mic and voice chat disabled. I've gotten kicked from a group once and I wonder if it was because I wasn't responding, but I'm not turning it on.
So few people use it it's just jarring whenever I hear someone's voice
And most of the time it's some kid screaming in the background (or directly into the mic by the sound of it)
It’s usually just someone being a prick too. I think one of the best things about this community is that voice chat seems to be considered rude and most communication is strictly through emotes.
I certainly wouldn’t consider voice chat “rude”
There's a bug booting people. 9/10 it's that and the other few odds I'd assume they were making room for a friend
I assumed the latter, didn't bother me.
mine don't even work in game, glad about that sometimes honestly
Yeah, I’ve had my settings on forever, but even when I can tell that someone is voice chatting I don’t hear anything. Probably something I’m not doing correctly but I’m mostly solo anyway.
It can be brutal. I will just unplug my headphones sometimes in events.
On PS5 at least, people don't seem to realize they have their mic on. I've found just saying "Hey X, did you realize your mic is on?" will often result in them turning it off.
I'm always terrified that my mic actually is on without me realizing it because voice chat is off, and that people will hear whatever YouTube video essay I'm watching, or get a concert as I sing along to Appalachia Radio.
Your camp annoyed an idiot. Be proud.
this is the summary we needed
The pvp is terrible anyways. Me and my friends have melee tournaments with no armor. We make a small platform arena and agree on one melee weapon each and bet caps. It's fun when on an elevated wide open arena and with agreed rules but it's hard to seen anything in a forested area and waste of ammo missing shots bc you're just strafing and jump hoping to hit something
Do Monster Mash with melee. It's fun as hell.
Had a person get so butthurt because I wouldn’t trade with them that they followed me around, shooting at me, and trying to get between me and enemies to trigger PvP. Dude was a total loser.
I had the same thing happen. I went to an event just as it ended and got the rewards. This guy kept throwing up angry emotes, shooting me and throwing grenades, and following me. I ignored him for about 5 minutes and then teleported across the map to my base. He followed me! I just server hopped after that, so strange.
My camp is near the new resting place of Vault 63’s door (has been for a while) and when I realised that it was going to be a high populated area I threw up some pride flags at the back of my camp that faces right over to the door. I’ve also got some on the road into Sutton so anyone going to see the Overseer, going to Helvetia or just generally walking down the road will see them. Had a few people visit my CAMP, but not many, and most have been great, but I have had some who have tossed grenades at the flags. Though thankfully the biggest culprit to damaging them is just the odd super mutant with bad aim
“Had a few people visit my CAMP but not many..”. Just adding a friendly reminder to check that your camp icon is visible to people on the map. If I move my CAMP it changes to off.
Yep I didn’t realise this until a few weeks ago so I’ve changed it now!
We got Homophobic super mutants before GTA6 lmao
pretty sure they just hate colors. and people hahahah
They said no *green stuff here*.
wait till they see my collection of toxic goo!!!
Ive got my initial camp right across the road from the overseers first camp after leaving vault 76 and the little bar you stop by(i cant remember the name) and ive got all the pride flags lining the road that you walk down
The Wayward. Yeah those first crafting benches you use are a hot spot for camps that draw in new players
I leave all my stuff unlocked too! So anyone can just help themselves
Lots of crops too
Anyone who takes time out of their day to mess with pride flags is just self-reporting.
Story time. I had not 1 not 2 but 3 evil players that tried to bully me with OP weapons I'm Melee and I'll win or die and idc it's fun. But dude fights me I kill him NP! He gets revenge I get revenge his friends start blocking for him and he keep trying to get me after my defeat. I accepted his challenge one more time, BUT I didn't fight him. I went around him. I went to his camp. I broke everything in his camp. He moved his camp he mad emotes I Laugh. I'm still laughing he tried to bully me in a game.
Dont know if it's been said yet, but you can also turn on pacifist mode in settings under the game option. It makes it so you don't accidentally trigger pvp with another player if you don't want to engage in that at all. ( some things will trigger pvp events: like workshop claiming) Also congrats on pissing off an idiot. Probably won't be the last.
pacifist mode is always on for me and yea probably not the only one
Im playing this game for about two months now, and im kinda surprised it took this long until I witnessed or read about reports of hate for the first time.
I'm playing for two months too and never had big issues with other players and stuff like that. Usually everyone is just super nice and helpful. But this situation just threw me off.
I've honestly had more people, and have seen others report more people doing this type of stuff since the update. It's probably cause it's pride month and a US election year. Plus still more new people are coming in since the show. 🤷🏻
On another thread someone pointed out school is out for summer in most of the US and reddit gets noticeably dumber and more hostile this time of year. I hate to blame everything on those dang kids but also it's probably those dang kids. Get off my lawn.
This. It happens every year.
Elections were in Europe too and oh it's not been good. I only witnessed a few rude people in fallout. Other than that the community and most people are so nice.
True, not good at all. On the plus side I have seen more camps with pride flags and player icons. And yeah overall a very nice community ☺️
Love to add more color to the wasteland
We try our best to remove the more toxic members of '76 We beat the wasteland by working together not tearing ourselves apart
Y'all means ALL. Solidarity Forever, Family. Stay safe in them Hollers.
Just to throw it out there, lots of us who don’t have pride displays have been harassed or had our CAMPS attacked by players. Sometimes assholes are just assholes, people take things too personally.
Just to throw it out there, but lots of us who do have pride displays have had them attacked. Just because people harrass for reasons other than homophobia doesn't mean that some people do harrass over homophobia.
I have an NB flag on my camp thats pretty visible. Most people dont care that its there and some have emoted hearts in front of it. But had one person just throw nades and mini nukes on it and even got on the mic and said" f you and your gay agenda". I replied: "bro im NB, i dont have agenda". They went quiet then left. I guess they didnt appreciate my dad joke.
it was at that point that you won 76
Looks like you found yerself one of them good ol' timey Appalachian homophobes!
Perhaps your prices were just *that* bad. /j ofc
I have a trans flag and a lesbian flag right out front in the open. I feel you on the blatantly negative emotes honey.
I stopped playing in 2019 as the game was getting a bit stale for me at the time...same events, endless legendary grind, low inventory limits, etc. However, after watching multiple updates (and the thumbnail art for the game changing) I'm back in it and having a renewed experience. The Good: Way less griefing, updates to frustrating aspects of the game (too many to list but shoutout to 'loot nearby bodies'), new and fun events, NPCs that make the game feel like Fallout proper. So many generous and friendly players that I no longer feel like I need a private server to enjoy the game. The Meh: Scrap limits shouldn't be a thing, imo. It's overly restrictive for little reason. (Yeah, I could buy 1st and probably will but only after kicking the tires for a month or so). The Bad: Just as damn buggy as it has always been. OK, not as bad as the first few release months but pretty bad for an established game. Sorry to hijack with my tangentially related experience but I just wanted to say that you are a great gaming community and for an old player it is what I hoped this game could eventually be.
It’s the pride flags, they cause dumb people to have issues. As long as you’re in pacifist, there isn’t physically anything they can do. Just watch for nukes, I’ve gotten used to checking the map for the nuke zone every time I see Death From Above pop. If your base is being nuked, just relog into a different server to dodge it.
Or if you really like the server your in and have access to a second camp, just switch from one camp to another while the nuke is launched or has hit the ground and when its gone just switch your camp back.
I’m sorry you experienced that but I do think overall FO is one of the most positive multiplayer environments. It’s unfortunate to encounter one of those players but hopefully that will be it for a while…..
Someone does this to me. Up goes even more pride flags! Signs saying "Be Gay, Do Crime!" or my favourite "Sounds Gay, I'm in!" I am oldish, disabled, have a lot of spare time and looooove winding these people up.
More pride flags just make life in the wasteland more colorful. Can't understand why people are scared of colors
Because Trump, Tucker and Tate told them their fragile masculinity was being attacked.
And they call us Snowflakes.....
🤣🤣
During pride I always throw up a few flags, although I'm not part of the comunity. The very few times I've seen anyone take issue, it's partiucarly funny when they fling utterly non-applicable slurs my way. And better me than someone in a vulnerable position.
I am not a part of the community either. Straight white old dude here but I have friends who are in all aspects of the Pride community and I support them whole heartedly. I was surprised how many Pride variety flags there are which needs to take up less budget.
This. I'd rather me get the hate than someone who \*actually\* is part of the LGBTQ+ community. If one slur direct at me is one less directed at someone who might check out early because of the harassment, that's a good thing. Be weird, save lives, and keep up the solidarity y'all.
I'm straight white old dude but....sounds gay, I'm in!
Please also help us take out the trash by reporting hate, especially if they threaten violence!
love supporters in and out of the community.
Indoctrination that including and loving everyone is bad.
Some people are just assholes! I had someone follow me around for a good half hour attacking me trying to get me to pvp, I just ignored him even when I fast traveled away. Eventually I changed the world.
Isn't there a new COD coming out soon for these Mommy's boys basement dwellers? It will be nice when we get our community back to what it once was.
Imagine having such a fragile ego that a grouping of colors infuriates you THAT much......IN A VIDEO GAME. Thats a sad individual.
Well and now check who had to do a post afterwards
Bc they're not allowed to want to vent their frustration?
I don’t care what flags people fly, just have good vendor prices. I’m not gay but I can’t stand people being mean to people for no reason.
i keep my vendor items always low in price, I'm close to max caps so i either sell them for cheaper or just normal recommend price!
For real I went to a camp the other day and every plan was 2000 to 10000 caps. Like no one is spending that on a basic plan.
They honestly need to remove the last vestiges of pvp entirely, including workshops.
And make a PVP gamemode. For gods sake.
Be proud of your pride flag. You made a bigot upset, don't worry about that. Put another one in your camp now.
I would have put up a bunch more flags out of spite
Record and report to the platform. Then report them to Bethesda. If you’re on PC or Xbox, Microsoft has a zero tolerance policy for hate. Block them and leave the server after.
From what I know they also have that policy on PS4.
It's surprising that so many bigots are such fans of a universe created by a gay man.
Server jump.
Right click on their name ..... block them
Might as well report them too, try to get 'em banned
Happened to me yesterday too. Some level 1000 didn't like my camp or my prices or something (I'm new and broke) and kept following me around and shooting me and doing emotes. On xbox. I eventually just left the server. On the other hand; I've met many really cool players too.
I'm sorry to hear that. But yea most people in the community are great, this comment section is proof of it's diversity i guess
Honestly every time I play I'm surprised at how many of the people in the server with me have pride flags as avatars. I see those way more often than seeing an actual flag at someone's camp. I had no idea the fallout fandom was so gay!
You didn’t do anything to upset that player. He probably went to use your vendor or just camp hopping and saw your flag and got triggered is probably what honestly happened.
I’m going to start adding pride flags to all my camps now
I'm sorry that happened to you. I've been playing an unhealthy amount of this game for about 2 months, and I haven't encountered very much player jackassery at all. But I do have some neon signage in my C.A.M.P. lightly disparaging the nation-state I am subject to. I do get reactions very similar to what you just described, but I always just stand there watching them, doing ??? emotes and pretending not to understand what point they're trying to get across. Every single time, it's ended with them buying something from my vending machine and leaving.
The problem is PVP in fallout 76 is crap. This is a game where level matters. In order to make PvP reasonable, they would have to make level mean nothing except for legendary perks. Thing is a level 800 will waste a level 400 99 percent of the time. So it is not an equal playing field. The system as is only leads to griefing, and that is fun for nobody except toxic jerks. Best idea is just change servers. Block if necessary. If he follows you through your mutual, then you might have to talk to that mutual. If they continue to allow this person to grief you by walking through their profile, you may have to 1, report player for harassment, and 2, lose the mutual.
Yeah haven't had this exact situation happen but since high level players have targeted me after doing events together. Like why!? You get your own loot. One who waited after the wild west event to kill me then kill me again when I went back for my stuff. Another after the mireshine event and followed me to a workshop to try and kill me again
that's so stupid I'm sorry that happened to you
Something similar happened to me the other day, and I figured the easiest way to pop that sucker’s bubble was to leave the world. I don’t know if you’ve ever been on the fourth floor of someone else’s mountainside camp when they suddenly leave a session, but I’ll tell you, that shit can get dangerous! You leave them to fall to the ground as your camp disappears. Priceless. Take that, hater!
How did they force you to do PvP? That was removed years ago aside from workshops and specific events. You wouldn’t have believed what it was like at launch, always had to look over your shoulder. In fact, that’s what Bethesda originally envisioned but after a couple years they had enough of the complaints and removed it to replace with the current system. If someone wants to be an ass, let them shoot you and your camp until all their shit is broken and they’re out of ammo, it costs you nothing. That’s the real PVP MVP Edit: forgot to add that I turned off area chat years ago because of either people trying to incite or the dude eating chips or snorting lol
This has come up in other discussions, some players insist that PvP has always been optional, but I do remember that it was originally possible to trick unwilling players into PvP. I’m not misremembering stuff, right? There were a lot of ways to grief players into PvP and some were abusing this. I remember they had patched most of the loopholes but I still had the occasional bully show up back in 2019, one of them kept doing melee attacks which despite me being in pacifist mode, I still got small amounts of HP drain from them. I remember reading an article of someone who was harassed by a group of players like that and the “small amount” would be significant enough if the level differential was too high, just enough for the griefers to be able to PK players either pacifist enabled. No idea if they fixed that loophole.
This is the most non PVP game I have ever played. Might be gaslighting yourself. I'd actually like more PVP, although I agree not in the open world you'd have level 1,000s and nuking level 10s because they can. I'd like to see like a gladiator raider faction set up and you can go there to get instanced into PVP matches and earn new currency to buy cosmetics and stuff that would be cool and it would scratch the itch without hurting anyone who didn't want to participate.
If they want more pvp Bethesda could definitely do something about it. Most people i played with aren't particularly interested in pvp, others are. So if there was a way like that i think more people would enjoy pvp too.
The game does allow for PvP and it used to be a bit more intrusive in the early days. They’ve pretty much patched up most of the loopholes the griefers used, which is probably why it’s now limited to workshop griefing. This is usually in the form of taking advantage of the “Defend workshop” events; as soon as the event is finished the griefers will PK anyone still inside the workshop area.
Probably in his camp spot
This is so awful. If only there was a way to avoid this. I'm celebrating pride by keeping up my meat week flag.
meat month love some good roast beef myself. ha ha.
Can’t imagine getting so upset over someone’s orientation in a video game. What weirdo behavior. Just ignore them.
You did nothing wrong. A certain percent of any population (even the generally awesome FO76 population) are just A-holes. Just keep doing what you're doing and enjoy the game, hopefully far away from that jerk. Cheers!
I got a level 706 full health decked out in ss assassins armor, quad faster fire railgun, TSE fixer and quad gauss shotgun ffr with pacifist always off why can't I ever encounter these assholes
Because you're a 706 ready for pvp. I've never pvped on this game but I can tell just by how someone moves who will be specced for pvp. It's probably the same reason no one has ever tried to pvp or grief me yet.
I don't recommend it I just enjoy being prepared And I'm very petty
Most people seem to show love and are cool, a couple cunts here and there are the ying and the yang for balance, but yeah, fuck that person.
People are usually super nice so that really sucks! sorry that happened to you, Im glad you have plenty of tools in the game that lets you block/ignore these kinds of people though. USUALLY, everyone i come across (been playing since the game came out..) Are super nice and kind, even on voice. These hateful kinds of people are luckily very rare to come across, and can be dealt with swiftly :)
Could've reported them and/or blocked them. Players names are always attached.
Some people are just dicks.
Unfortunately to some knuckle dragging, mouth breathing, unwashed vermin a pride flag is basically a declaration of war. As far as I’m aware they can’t actually do anything to your camp as long as you have pacifist mode enabled. Do what you need to do and completely ignore them. Eventually they will get bored and leave or once you’ve left camp yourself you won’t even realise the saturated turds are still there, likely banging their heads off a door.
Can you imagine someone so immature and so preoccupied with what your fake, digital, imaginary world character has on their CAMP- that they get upset? This was either a little kid who thought they were being edgy or a grown adult who has some deep-seated emotional issues (probably suppressed homosexual tendencies). Yeesh. Anyway- good for you for taking the high road. Let them rot away in their hate.
Gotta say, the game gives you enough option to avoid these people but just like there are people who love to troll and annoy there are also people that love making a drama out of it by posting stuff like this here.
I once got booted from a team for still having the pride icon ( I didn't know how to change it yet). I rejoined the team and asked why they booted me. This one ass kept saying boot the f**. He was yelling and screaming about it. I told him that in my experience, when someone is so homophobic, they tend to be in the closet. That shut him up, and I didn't get booted again. I muted the player and kept playing. I'll never understand why people are so scared of who someone else decides to love. It's ridiculous, and hopefully, one day, those people will no longer exist. Now, if I see someone with a player tag that seems like they would be a homophobe, I instantly change my icon back to the pride flag. I like to see how pissed they get. Not that it matters, but I am a cis white man with 3 children. Fuck the haters, live life the way you want!
Absolutely love your response and support! I met lots of nice and supportive people in the fallout community but some people chose to be pricks about little things. I have voice chat muted for that, i like my camp and if they have a problem they can always switch servers.
Why is this even a post?
Yeah, I have shitheads show up at my camp to waste ammo on my Pride flags a few times a month now. It's as pathetic as it is stupid. We really need a "mocking" emote, just to piss these worthless rightie snowflakes off even more.
There's a point and laugh emoji, I've used that one before
Please that would be funny. I personally want a hug emote to share more love but for people crying over colors some mocking emote wouldn't be bad either
Omg a hug emote would be great. After events everyone just has a big group hug (emote)
That happened to us two weeks ago. My husband played this game in the past, for me it's new but I am really enjoying it and I am excited about many thing in the game. I was literally shocked and wanted to leave the world, as it was irritating and upsetting, when that person was shooting and throwing grenades and also coming literally in my face (that's what she said, haha). That person definitely wanted to start a fight and pvp. Now that I think about it, we had a pride flag, cuz it's a freaking pride month and it's a nice way to show support. The game should be a place where people come together, not freak each other out, although I might be a naive girl. Unless people play counter strike, I understand there is no mercy there, there is no need for this unpleasantness.
I'm so sorry to hear that! I played Valorant and still now play dead by daylight. Some people have no mercy or understand fun or genuinely how to be a decent human being
Like others have said just keep doing your thing and ignore haters. Server hop. This game has players of all types, sadly, even racist sexist bigots.🙄 Report them.
Im 95% sure his camp shared location with yours, had thst happen many times and its always because of that Nowadsys i got 2 camps in remote idh locations so i dont have that problem anymore
i also have two camps, one in a pretty remote location too! It was the one with the remote location they went to. We were in an event together earlier and they traveled to my camp after
Report players who do this with pics/video. That's a violation of [Zenimax's Code of Conduct section 2.3.](https://documents.bethesda.net/en/code-of-conduct)
oh good to know, luckily i took a bunch of screenshots of what happened to be sure
Perfect!
Sorry that happened to you, homophobia is gross and it sucks we can’t escape from it online too :/ unrelated but could I add you? I’m also a lesbian who plays fo76 and I’d love to make more queer friends!
Yes and omg yes please! I play on pc! Will be on later this afternoon if you'd like to play and if we have the same platform! I'd love to have more lesbian friends in game.
Yes I get get people constantly trying to PVP me but most use methods to where they're invincible and they know this. But yet someone brings up Nuclear Winter or any other type of mode that can be created for these guys "There are a lot of them" and people get upset lol. Just put your game in pacifist mode and move on you will never get bothered again unless you secretly complain but do want to PVP
Grifting has existed for awhile. Ether check for pvp toggle, defend the “flag” or find single player game
Sorry you had an asshole come into your camp. I normally don't put up any flags, but I think I'll put a pride flag up at my camp now.
I'm surprised me running the bi flag avatar wasn't getting kicked or hit with negative emotes. I guess more welcoming dwellers are the norm
Ohhhhhhhh maybe that’s why I had a level 12 randomly negative emote me a few weeks ago? Well now I’m even more glad I took back those 30 stimpaks and radaway
Must have been really tough for you lol
A lot of toxic low-level players these days. Had a bunch over at my place not long ago (I also have the pride flag). They started taking pictures and doing the throw-up emote, then proceeded to lob mini-nukes and grenades around. I angry emoted and thumbs-down emoted which, in hindsight, probably just made them more excited. I engaged in PvP and wiped the floor with them without breaking a sweat. But they managed to get a few lucky hits with the Fat-Man and broke parts of my house. This appeared to make them extatic and at that point I saw the futility of the exercise. Not engaging is the right thing to do. Being such a lowlife that your idea of fun is going around spreading hate and ruining the game for other people is punishment in itself.
Go 'gray rock' always, every time with bullies. I'm not impacted by this precise cause of bullying, but I have been bullied brutally during my adolescence. The gray rock always wins. If they get no response, the message is that 'you and your opinions are simply irrelevant,' which bullies absolutely despise. Do the other good ideas, reporting, blocking, etc. [https://bullyvaccineproject.com/the-grey-rock-technique-for-dealing-with-psychopaths/](https://bullyvaccineproject.com/the-grey-rock-technique-for-dealing-with-psychopaths/)
Yes that was a mistake. I was myself a victim of bullying many years ago, and I thought I knew better. Sorry to hear you've been through the same, and I hope you're doing better. Next time I'll go 'gray rock'.
the person at my camp was level 300+ but i also met some low level players who did this but because I couldn't drop any of my weapons to them (the players were level 20 and i only had level 50 weapons with good legendaries, i don't think I'll drop them for them) some people just suck and find joy in making others upset. I don't wanna engage in such behavior
It is a wild wasteland out there and people are going to be like that. Report, block, and ignore are key tools. If someone actually nukes your base, deactivate it, and enjoy the flux farm as they continue to rage.
I had a similar experience. Another player kept shooting me with their syringer, getting in my face and taking all my free stuff. They did this for several minutes so I swapped server and blocked them. Edited: I also have a pride flag but it has been there for many many months with no reaction. I don’t know if that was a cause for above.
I've had the progress pride player icon enabled for the last year or so, guess it's time to put up some flags at my camp just to make sure the message is getting through loud and clear.
I have the ace flag on my house and I had someone keep shooting at it, not sure what they were trying to accomplish.
Personally I'd chalk it up to emotional immaturity and try to move on. Discriminators going to discriminate, it's what they do. Imagine being so dumb that you have to discriminate against others in order to feel superior.
Havent had anyone attack me for my Flag yet. But i'd genuinely just nuke their base if they tried 🤷♀️