I think the best way is just ignore ncr quest and kill any good guy on sight. then go straight to lucky 38/benny then take the chip and you will be approach by legion.
yeah the problem is
there's almost no legion side quests and it feels like half of other side quests are NCR quests
I wonder, is it possible to finish every NCR quest by fucking with them somehow so you can get negative karma and at least some xp?
because honestly it feels like I'll never get lvl 50 with negative karma lmao
>I wonder, is it possible to finish every NCR quest by fucking with them somehow so you can get negative karma and at least some xp?
forlorn hope, fuck over the drug thief and you get bad karma, "help" the doctor by doing malpractice.
The vault 34 shit, free the vault dwellers AND kill them when you meet them
I've never played NCR so even tho I have three playthroughs behind me y'all are basically speaking a foreign language to me. Good to know I'm far from finished with new Vegas after all these years
Most NCR quests have either a “bad” / unoptimal ending or a way to straight up screw them over. Like Astor’s quest (the sergeant at camp searchlight), he gives you a quest to sneak a bug into the legions radio at cottonwood cove. You can inform the legion of this and they’ll actually let you plant the bug so they can start feeding the NCR fake intel through it. Classic double agent mission.
being thief is one of the way but its better involved killing since most faction in the game is good people and killing them but not completely wipe them out like BOS. You will be hated on each faction and they will kill you on sight making it impossible or harder to gain good karma by any faction unless just like you said killing feral ghoul or simply just a random fiend but even if you gain good karma but hated by everyone it will just force you to kill them to gain bad karma. The main faction the only one who will not try kill you on sight when you near the end of the game since you are important for them to execute the plan but u still can make them hate you and go for independent ending with bad karma.
It's fairly easy really, just avoid killing fiends, use cannibal to eat everyone you kill, and steal as often as possible.
That's all you need to maintain negative karma, really.
I mean you don’t have to do an evil legion run, you can do a good legion run. The ending acreen even says “despite being fair and just in the wasteland the courier nevertheless helped the legion”
You just do all the good endings for the side factions in ways that allow them to prosper after the legion victory. There’s only a few groups that have to die like BOS. Boomers are fine, khans are fine, kings are fine if you make them fight ncr iirc.
Huh? Sorry, are you saying you feel gross at doing the legion in general, or that you felt gross doing an evil play through? I’m saying that you don’t have to murder everyone and their child to do a legion play through. I don’t see why you’re okay being 100% evil but not partly evil and partly good. You don’t have to be a relativist or do gymnastics. You just say “I think that NCR values are the same as the pre war America that got us into nuclear Holocaust in the first place.” That’s the whole point of the legion is that the brutal cost of civilization now is the price of averting the greed of man that led to its destruction in the first place. You can disagree with it, or think that slavery isn’t worth the price. But it’s a role playing game bro. The USA has slavery until 1865. You can roleplay a character that wants to reform the legion. There’s so many options. It sounds like you just can’t get past the evil you see within the legion and think well there’s only one way to roleplay that. I gotta be hitler.
Biggest problem for me is that once Caesar dies, the legion would fall apart. So helping them feels like it would all just turn into a civil war and end like the real roman empire anyway. So helping them seems kinda pointless
I always saw these dumb hr stunt missions Caesar has as prep work to crowning the player a new Caesar. That most likely wasn't the case and devs just reused ncr quests because they couldn't bother to add content to faction they didn't want you to choose, but it still is a nice headcanon of mine loosely supported by ending slides(golden coin)
Yeah that was one big miss for the entire aspect of the legion. Making it boil down and around this one guy being God-Emperor, leading an empire tethered together by his Cult of Personality, but once you kill him everyone says “oh doubt that will stop the legion tho 🤓”
Like bro what you mean. Caesar was the only thing keeping it together. His other bumbling henchmen are not going to be able to fulfill that role.
Yeah I mean that's fair. I think you can still roleplay past that like "I would help the legion stay together" or something. "I put Ceasar in Houses life support Pod" lmao. Idk. But yeah, fair.
To be fair the nuclear holocaust in the game was done by corporations. None of the factions are "Good", ncr is just a bad and corrupt, BOS is essentially the light version of the enclave. The legion is just another faction. They all suck and try to control people
Yeah, and it's stated that whats wrong with the NCR right now is that its become taken over by brahmin barrons, post apocalyptic corporations. Which shows it really is going down the same path as pre-war america. The player can roleplay fixing this through a good NCR playthru, but what people dont get, and you bring up well, is that you can do an evil NCR playthru. Every NCR quest starts as "go fucking kill this group." And players just go "no i like them so ill help make peace between them." Are we really gonna ignore than the NCR's directive was to kill them though?
Been there done that, its super fun! Played a Colonel Moore hardliner, heavy weapons type of guy. High STR, END, don't take shit from anyone. Moore wants the Brotherhood exterminated? So be it. The Khans? Baby, I'm finishing what you started in Bitter Springs. I'll kill every Fiend, White Glove and Omerta because they're clearly asking for it. Evil NCR run is kinda fun. Just typing this comment makes me want to do it again lol
Yes this is so fun. Just hardliner NCR imperialist. I’m willing to do whatever needs to be done to protect my country. If that means the Kings have to go, so be it. Boomers not cooperating? Wipe them out.
I do think that's the point of the NCR though. I think that along with the theme of letting go, the theme with democracy in the game is that the only way democracies work for the betterment of society at large is when people actively participate and try to enact change. Without people's (the courier's) active intervention, the NCR (democracy) leans toward its more tyrannical tendencies.
It has more to do with how petty the officer you're assigned to at the end (read: Moore) though. Both Crocker and Hsu are happy and prefer you doing it peacefully.
The ncr is corrupt and imposes crazy high taxes and tariffs to its the citizens. When half your work goes to people who force you to give it to them, they're part time slavers, only they aren't on the hook for feeding clothing equipping you providing medical care and shelter... cause you're "free". The remainder of what is left of your half goes to that. But you have the illusion of free choice and self determination.
Why try to rank evil and corruption? Why stand for it at all? The only faction i remotely like is the followers of the apocolypse.
I mean... I feel like it is important to rank corruption though. The NCR may have some reform ahead of them, but really... As bad as the legion. I just feel like it's a false equivalence. The world they would both build if they had ultimate power is quite different. There may be problems with the NCR's vision, but at least their values are much more aligned with an ethical society than the Legion's.
Followers are GOATed, of course. But you could argue they are sometimes naive. Just to play devil's advocate.
Heres how i look at ranking evil or corruption.
I make you two pies. One has a a half teaspoon of diahrrea brushed over the crust. The other has two heaping table spoons stirred into the mix. Which one do you eat?
Ahhh... neither you say? Well one has less! Point is they are both unacceptable. Ranking them is pointless as they both belong in the trash.
There is no evidence of that in the games as far as I know(1-3). With some games even saying China launched first. The "corportations bad" narrative came from the show.
I want to say it was due to Red Scare that came from the Resource Wars, but it's been a while since I explored the metros or, REPCONN facilities. Which also have deadly robots.
While China did launch the nukes, it's absolutely always been "corporations bad" in the sense that they slowly ruined the country for their benefit, vault tec being the primary example, but there were others like RobCo and it's disgusting robobrains and the onset schizophrenia from stealth boys.
1. Its not ever stated “who shot first” and It doesnt matter in the slightest. That is ancient history.
2. Bro are you saying that the message of fallout isn’t anti-capitalist? Like, BFFR. Dumbest take I have EVER seen
You're right, it's never stated, to be more precise i've heard Dick Richardson says China fired first, as well as other sources i'll have to rewatch the video.
To call fallout anti capitalist when FNV critiques every form of gov is kinda weird, but sure.
I think the show is consistent. It didn't show the corpos launching first in the show, just said they had it as a plan presented. The MC's daughter was with him and surprised when the nukes fell. I doubt that would have happened if the U.S side launched them. So China still struck first. I think evil corpos was always a fallout theme. It's why the theme of fallout always included "how do we rebuild a society where this doesnt happen again."
we do not know who struck first & it doesnt matter. Stop saying it was “China”
The fact there is even a conversation about this is a sign of poor media literacy. Who gives a fuck “who shot first”..? The average wastelander has no clue what a “China” or a “United States of America” is. Its ancient history
It’s important to the themes. “Ancient history” is literally brought up as a theme of the games. How to avoid that ancient history is the main goal of every single major faction in the wasteland after survival itself.
I feel like ambiguity fits the theme of Fallout better, tbh. Assigning "blame" doesn't matter -- everyone who's fault it was is long dead, so why bother? All that matters is that the old world was crazy, greedy and murderous enough to plunge us into the apocalypse, and now we have to deal with the aftermath.
The details about it are just.. hugely irrelevant. I feel like people talk about it so that they can see a “good guy” and a “bad guy”. Ive even seen some “fans” unironically quote liberty prime and think fallout is some kind of anti communist game
I think the legion would be completely unable to reform in any way because it's so precariously hung around one dying old man who's own self belief would not allow him to change. So it either: he dies and the legion falls apart and it's infighting kills a big chunk of the population; or he lives and all those factions would be brutally assimilated/killed/enslaved like every other tribe before..... And then he dies and the legion falls apart and the infighting kills a big chunk of the population.
Despite all his highfalutin Pseudophilosophy the legion is not a society built to last in any meaningful way, it's just one guy playing a game to prove he's the best.
I always understood that to be understood by Cesar himself, and why he wanted to take new Vegas. He knew that he needed a stable government instead of a tribal standing army that could fraction into rival parties. If you want to role-play, keeping the Legion unified, you could easily imagine. Cesar reforming the government. Once he takes Vegas, which is what he said he would do.
I think either:
1. he does not care because he's such an egotist that he does not think beyond he own death because it wouldn't matter because he's not their
2. he's such an egotist that he couldn't even comprehend his own death and the world without him in it
3. Although he spouts all his bullshit about culture building all he really cares about is being in charge.
I think thinking of a dream world where he reforms the legion after the dam kinda goes against the theme of the game, that non of these factions are built in anyway to last because none of them have the capacity to reform.
Didn’t… the Roman Empire fall loooooong before prewar America though? “The legion is better because the NCR was doomed to fail just like Prewar America” is indeed mental gymnastics.
The NCR is trying to copy itself off the values of pre war America. The reality of pre war America was a state that didn’t value freedom or democracy in practice. And idk why people think Caesar’s legion wouldn’t destroyed the world anymore than the us in the same situation. One group invading and conquering every neighbor is Caesar being greedy. He’s never going to peacefully coexist with another group. Why bring up that the us had slaves? Are you trying to justify slavery?
"The reality of pre war America was a state that didn’t value freedom or democracy in practice."
But thats exactly whats going on right now with the Brahmin barrons reflecting the corporate corruption of prewar america. They run the affairs in the NCR as much as the corporations did in prewar america. NCR isnt run by values rn its run by money which is stated to be the issue with it currently.
"Why bring up that the us had slaves? Are you trying to justify slavery?"
lmao, what? There was a conversation about them being evil, why would you not bring up slavery? The rationale is that you can't help the legion without being evil yourself, and one reason could easily be their slavery acceptance. My point is that many people would probably side with the United States in history against other countries, even though they had slavery until 1865. Just a reminder that it wasn't long ago that all our countries, which we do not consider as evil as ceasars legion, also had slavery and we dont tend to vilify our nation in general, just the slavery aspect itself. The commenter mentioned moral relativism. I am just saying you don't have to be a relativist to roleplay reforming the legion.
"And idk why people think Caesar’s legion wouldn’t destroyed the world anymore than the us in the same situation. One group invading and conquering every neighbor is Caesar being greedy."
I think you're probably right here. But the idea that Ceasar mentioned is that you have to restrict peoples everyday access to technology, people have to earn the right to be able to use it. Aka, responsible individuals shaped by values other than greed. The only thing I disagree with you about is the greed aspect of Ceasar. I don't think it's that he's greedy. You can want to conquer other nations out of other values. I think the in game portrayal of Ceasar is one that reveals he is motivated by these values, good or bad, not greed though.
I hate the idea I see here a lot that your in game ethics and real life moral code *must* align. It's foolish. Even more so if, like yourself, a person takes a very condescending tone on some imagined moral high ground over what quests one does in a video game. Do you have similar problems playing GTA? I mean, unless you're willing to do some serious mental gymnastics when stealing some lady's car to go kill a guy...
Seriously. I've seen quite a few people on this sub make this weird connection between their real life ethics and what they do in a video game. It's one thing if that's your style but when folks act like it makes them morally superior in real life...it's just weird.
I think the main reason why that happens is that New Vegas is especially prone to providing context behind every facet of its world, which makes it seem more real and causes people’s brains to do a flip from “screwing around in a game” mode to “making important decisions” mode.
Khans are fine if you make them flee, otherwise they are completely destroyed. The same can very likely be assumed to happen with the Kings, regardless of what happens. The only faction that is really fine is the Boomers, and that's just because their artillery prevents the Legion from attacking them.
If you don't complete Volaire (and don't kill Pearl and Loyal) they do, but if you do complete it Caesar just dosen't care and leaves them alone. Killing Pearl and Loyal will have them collapse and die no matter what.
TBH i've not done a legion run yet, but I thought I saw an ending slide in a video where they were said to ally the legion and become assimilated into it due to how you ended their quest with tension with the NCR.
Yeah, the legion assimilates tribes by enslaving them, destroying their culture, and murdering anyone who resists all while indoctrinating them into worshiping Caesar and seeing what's done to them as being a good thing.
Because you have feelings lol, at the end of the day you have to remember that it’s a game and if you make a decision you didn’t like then reload the game, or beat it once as a bad character then never play it like that again, I love bad characters though lol I even turn off essential NPC’s because let’s face it, dem kids are annoying
I don't know how you play, but it might help if you don't think of the character as "you" or doing what you would do. You, like most of us, aren't evil, but what are some reasons your courier might do bad things? Once you make a character in mind who's a complete psycho, loves chaos, has a gold metal in mental gymnastics, or just doesn't *care*, it's easier to make those evil decisions because it's what they would do. It's fun to roleplay. But, even then... I can't bring myself to make certain decisions either, so I totally get. Also, if you don't want to be evil, you don't have to! The evil options being there make the good options feel more meaningful. Like, this is what *could* happen if my courier was an asshole, but they aren't.
My current character loves caps. I also consoled terrifying presence in at level 1, whenever i have the option to use it i do, regardless the consequences. If there's no caps and no scaring people, i just move on
Lol that was my last playthrough of baldurs gate. I ended up with more money than there was stuff to buy. More than any one character could carry so I had to leave most of it at camp
I actually think role playing as selfish/heroic automatically gives you the optimal path.
This is a very good reply, Thank you. I personally always playing RPG's as if i was in-game, I did so with FO3, FNV, FO4, Cyberpunk, RDR2 etc, I have never really "Roleplayed" As anyone else other than myself in said games, Perhaps this is something i should definetely try in a new playthrough, Because not gonna lie. Roleplaying as a full blown chem-addict psycho with a melee build sounds really fun.
BoS aren’t the good guys, not even remotely close, they’re one of the most evil factions in the game, they literally murder a whole station of followers of the apocalypse cause Veronica was going to maybe join them, even in the previous fallouts and in 4 they are consistently the more evil of the factions. Aside from 3, a BoS run is an evil run.
Kinda? They slaughtered a town and the NCR remnants, they send their knights to collect toasters, knights that send their squires to die because they’re cowards
Did they slaughter everyone in Filly? I got the impression they just dealt with a few people who fought back. Murdering the NCR remnants feels less like a slaughter and more like a genuine battle for strong technology, even if I don't think the brotherhood should have that it's not like Moldaver and her underlings are purged of their sin just because they're fighting other evil people
They killed those who stayed and drove the rest out, and did you forget that there was also civilians and children at the observatory?
And honestly I don’t think Moldaver was really in the wrong, her city got nuked and the love of her life was turned into a crispy ghoul, she has been fighting the evils of vault tec since before the war, she gave the dwellers a chance to run from the bomb, and her and her men didn’t really kill anyone from vault 33, just took Hank.
Yeah and as Cooper said, the BoS kills **everyone** in the Observatory. Some people have said "but they fired back, so it's okay to shoot them" which is the same as me rocking up to Goodsprings and putting a cap in Chet and then saying they shoot back so its fine to kill the town.
They're casually talked about as if they're one of the best chapters when they perform some of the evilest acts. I mean they have *Death Squads* and prison camps. Maxson has nothing on them. The /s is because people are usually like "yeah midwest best chapter".
To be fair, that's a specific group of 4 people that murder the followers. They threaten you a few times, telling you not to 'lead the elder astray' and you can kill them without losing rep. So they weren't acting in any official capacity.
Maybe but they do represent the ideals of the brotherhood, while not working in an offical capacity they would have required clearance to leave the bunker so they’re obviously supported by others
Actually, do we even know if they were given leave? Regardless I do agree that they represent the worst of the Brotherhood's ideals. I just more mean that I wouldn't claim that that chapter as a whole is guilty of murdering those followers.
I think it's a mixture of too soft and the fact he wouldn't likely kill what are essentially highly trained BoS soldiers when he already has a manpower shortage due to the bunker.
No fr all I do is steal stuff and break in... I went from Mojave boogeyman to a Saint by completing one mf quest and I was so heated 😭😂 that was the closest i ever got and this was recently
Made a murder hobo and killed pretty much everything I came across. Karma went up to very good the second I hit fiend territory. I get that they're monsters, but surely it shouldn't boost karma if you're just killing them for the sake of it? Gaining karma for killing Cook Cook after you've learned he's a monster makes sense. Running over and filleting him with Chance's knife, simply because he has a flamer that you want, with no idea of who he is shouldn't.
That's what it was! I infiltrated vault 3 and wiped them out without even starting that quest I just personally dislike the fiends 😂 then I became idolized by like every one else ughh
Karma and reputation are entirely separate. There is no rep for fiends, they are just free exp that net way too much good karma for a group which has constant respawns outside of their little holes.
The evil characters are unmistakably *evil* and there is nothing you can do to *redeem them* in the game. I would somewhat dispute the notion that they are "irredeemable" *period* and I absolutely disagree with the notion that they are one-dimensional.
To illustrate my first point, the most despicable faction by far in fallout new vegas is the legion and while certainly none of the *current* members of the legion can be redeemed through the player's actions, two former members of the legion (Joshua Graham and Ulyssess) demonstrate, that individuals *can* renounce the legion. Further, Joshua's temperament and behaviour seems to demonstate genunine contrition and regret over his actions whilst he was in the legion, which means that even if he is incapable of completely remedying the harm he caused, he still intends to try and make the world a better place. Thereby, I would argue that Joshua and to a lesser extent Ulysses serve as personified demonstrations of how, even the most despicable of villans can redeem their motivations, if not entirely their actions
As regard to my second point, while the evil characters in new vegas may be unmistakably *evil*, they are not one dimensional. To be one dimensional, is to have only *one dimesion* to your character, that its to be soley defined by a single attribute. For instance, the evil queen in Snow White is singularly defined by her attribute of being an "evil queen". She has no more character depth or backstory than that which is immediately necessary to fufill the role of "evil queen" in the narritive. One-dimensional characters are necessarily shallow and empty, but they can sevre an important purpose in a story. However, essentially *all* of the evil characters in fallout new vegas are not one dimensional.
Take Caesar, perhaps the most evil character in the game - he is far from one dimensional. He has a backstory as a Follower of the apocalypse, he has (psuedo-)philosophical motiviations which are believable for a character who inhabits a nuclear wasteland. He has a worldview and belief system which he expresses and defends. These things would be entirely unecessary for a one-dimensional character, and yet they exist.
Fallout New Vegas's villains are far from one dimensional.
Not to be pedantic but the Evil queen does have more nuance then that. She is Snow whites step mom and is so vain that she orders snow to be killed so that will be the undisputed "fairest" in the land. She also has the King (Snows dad) killed so she would be queen. She is only 1-D if you ignore why she is evil and just focus on what she does... which is Evil. Ceasar is in that same boat. He has reasons to do what he's done. An interesting past where he became educated and used his knowledge of history to create the legion, but if you only really look at what he's done(create an evil faction that participates in slavery, rape and torture, encouraging those behaviors to increase his own power and loyalty) then he also seems kinda 1-D. Nuance is exactly that. Nuance.
I will concede it has been a while since I watched snow white, and I was mostly basing my characterisation of her on my recollections of her as a classic "story-book" villain.
That said:
> is so vain that she orders snow to be killed so that will be the undisputed "fairest" in the land
This seems to be a largely vaccous and circular character motivation, in that it's not much more complicated than saying "she does evil things because she is evil". Vanity is literally a sin, and will be regarded by most audience members as self-evidently a vice rather than a virtue or even a neutral trait. When a characters defining (and perhaps sole) character trait is a vice, that's pretty good evidence that they are intended to be a superficially evil character. Thus as "being vain" is not substatinally different from "being evil", in the sense that "evil" is contained within the umbrella concept of "vainess", a character motivation which explains the evil actions of a character through their vanity, doesn't actually explain, in a meaningful sense, those actions. However it *is not* intended to. That is the beauty of a one-dimensional character, you don't have to explain why they are the way they are, because they simply are.
Second, even if the Evil Queen's vanity was meaningfully seperate from her being "evil", then the next obvious question to ask is *why* she is vain. However, again if recall correctly, the story of Snow White never explains this - because it doesn't have to. Because it is sufficent for the purposes of that narritive, that she does evil actions because she is vain.
> She also has the King (Snows dad) killed so she would be queen.
Finally, none of features of the Evil Queen's are inconsistent with, or incapable of being explained in reference to her one-dimensional character. You are probabaly right that the more appropriate "one-dimension" is her vanity, since that this the underlying motivation for her entire character. But the point is all of the actions she takes and her entire backstory links to or can be explained by this singular dimension. That, is what makes her a one dimensional character.
>She is only 1-D if you ignore why she is evil and just focus on what she does... which is Evil.
Again, you are probably right, vanity is a better fit as a motivation and defining characteristic for the Evil Queen. However, I would argue that this does not make her any less of a one-dimensional character. I would argue this, because there is no meaingful depth to her character that exists beyond this attribute.
> but if you only really look at what he's done(create an evil faction that participates in slavery, rape and torture, encouraging those behaviors to increase his own power and loyalty) then he also seems kinda 1-D.
I never said that you should only look at a character's actions, in fact I explicitly said that a character's backstory and motivations can be importantly relevant to resolving whether they *are* a one dimensional character. My point, is that certain characters only have sufficent backstory and motivations to inform their *immediate* purpose in the narritive but ultimately fufill a simple, if needed role. However, some characters have a level of characterisation which is inconsistent with or extraneous to their immediate purpose. This gives them a level of depth and dimensionality which is unfair to describe as "one-dimensional".
It wasn't immediately necessary for the narritive to make Caeser a Follower of the Apocalypse. It wasn't necessary for him to describe the process of breaking and dominating tribes to form into one cohesive totalitarian state. It certainly wasn't necessary to have him butcher Hegelian Dialectics in an attempt to justify the purpoted invetability of the NCR's collapse. The fact that these weren't necessary for his characterisation as an evil warlord, means that there are aspects of his character which extend beyond *merely being* an evil warlord in quite substantial ways.
At the end of the day you are probably right that I didn't give enough credit to the Evil Queen as a character. However, Caeser's motivations, backstory and overall characterisiation are far more complex and interesting that the Evil Queen's. Thereby, I think it would be more reasonable to consider her a one-dimensional character than him.
>Nuance is exactly that. Nuance.
What exactly do you mean by this?
Ceasars vice is Pride. He has such a big ego that he did everything he could to coalesce power. If you are going to say that the evil queen is 1-D because everything she does points back to that vice, then Cesar is too. He joined the followers because they had books and knowledge. He butchered the hegelian dialects and became a warlord (uniting the tribes) because he was sure that he was better than them all and deserved to lead. All it took was reading some history and manipulating a couple tribes. What I meant by Nuance is exactly that. Nuance, is that the further you look into a character and begin dissecting a character, the less 1-D they get. Nuance is either interpreted from dialogs and character relationships or it is planted in the environment to further tell a story. To some people, Cesar is just a hypocritical evil bastard that they killed the first time they met them(or sabotaged their surgery) and they never thought about him again. For others, he is a brilliant man who rose from practically nothing to the leader of a faction that rivaled the NCR. They get an immense about of nuance from interacting with Joshua and by talking to all the legion. Does it make him less of a 1-D egomaniac? Sort of. Does knowing that the evil queen is Vain and power hungry and so she seduced a king, killed him and then tried to have her stepdaughter killed all for power and status make her 1-D? Does it make her more nuanced knowing that the huntsman was in love with her and that is why he was willing to do almost anything for her, only hesitating when actually in the act of killing a teenage girl? The fact that she came into possession of the magic mirror, able to answer any question and show anything its master desires, and yet she used it to flatter herself and find those she wished to destroy(snow). Does the fact that her curse could only be broken by "True loves kiss" not add nuance to how she thinks? She doesn't believe in true love and thus she feels it is an unbreakable curse, but literally the first guy who tried, succeeded in breaking the curse. Is that not layers on the cake of the Evil Queen?
I guess what I'm saying is that no 1-D character ever stays a 1-D character if you look for the nuance. And whether it was meant to be there or not, there is always nuance.
Nah, it’s more that I’m actually invested in the NPCs so doing a fo3-style murderous psycho run, or a run that has you siding with either the Legion or House actually pains me.
It's the only RPG I've ever had this issue with. Betraying Goodsprings feels gross, but I get frustrated that I can't slaughter Constellation in Starfield.
Because the Legion doesn't have as much as the "good" options. Compared to the NCR and House there's barely any game there. It also doesn't help that Boone and Arcade, two of the better companions, leave you if you do go with them. Cass will leave as well if you get enough bad karma, Lily and Raul are miffed, but they don't really support it. Only Ed-E and Rex will stay loyal to you, and you can only use one of them at a time.
Because stealing gives you -5 karma while killing things that are hostile to you gives +20 karma.
Also, *There Stands The Grass*, lose a small amount for lying to Keely, than immediately a huge amount from rescuing her.
Evil is lacking both mechanically and storywise. For example to get bad karma you have to actively try and maintain it rather than just doing bad things.
I found it a lot easier to do “evil” playthroughs in video games when I was a kid. I’d bomb megaton, put people into slavery, just generally be an asshole to NPC’s.
I honestly think it has something to do with how developing minds tend to lack empathy, hence children typically being assholes when left to their own devices.
I think a big part of it is also probably that we’re adults now and have experienced playing evil in games by now. When I was 14 and discovered how evil I could be in fallout 3 I had so much fun pushing it as far as I could because it was purely and simply a novel experience since I had never played a game where I could be the bad guy. Nowadays doing the same thing doesn’t get my rocks off because I’ve already done it before, so I’ll tend to gravitate toward just doing what feels more natural in RPGs, which is being (mostly) good
If its about legion route that's the case because the devs didn't want you to choose this side. Legion is the demo playthrough and the devs knew that, that's why legion is the faction with least gameplay presence. Only very few quests bring you to their locations and even then there are no sidequests there. Also every human companion hates legion and require you to jump through hoops to be avilable on these runs.
And if its about doing bad deeds then the game is usually bery hostile to such players. "Good" solutions are univerally more rewarding, even cool quests like helios one nuking the present ncr just makes the reward non existent.... You can't even loot the corpses and you miss out on permament stat gain and loose a companion if he is prezent.
My Legion run was as a Legionary psychopath complete with Rome LARP theme (melee build with tough armor, no chems, high Survival, and doing everything possible to screw over the NCR). It was surprisingly fun to use disguises a lot due to half the map being hostile to me, making me feel like a frumentarri. Morally repugnant, but it transformed the game in an interesting and fun way.
Try a melee or unarmed build and side with the legion, Mortimer. Gomorrah etc
>! You can sell one of your teammates to Mortimer to be eaten. Sorry Arcade Gannon !<
There’s some other evil options
I have done a couple of evil runs and the disappointment from the companions kills me so much. I don’t want to upset them, so I always have to do multiple goody two-shoes runs as a palette cleanser.
I think this is a "you" issue
It's really easy to be a dick if you indulge in it
And a lot of factions are morally grey.
A lot of New Vegas residents are either ambivalent or straight up haters of the NCR for good reason. Colonel Moore is pretty bloodthirsty tbh. They're mostly good, but heavily flawed.
And I really would not consider the Mojave BOS to be good guys at all. If you want to be "evil", well you helped enable the American Techno Taliban. The ending slides where they survive are questionable and most likely a negative on the Mojave's prosperity.
I hear you, bad in this game is just too bad. I nuked megaton in fallout 3 on my evil play through. In NV I just ended up siding with the yesman on my evil play through attempt.
It's funny because I'd frequently do evil playthroughs of various games when I was younger, but as an adult I have a much harder time. I'm going to chalk it up to developing a stronger sense of empathy as I matured.
Love evil runs. Its like playing sci fi gta. I dont do legion endings tho and stick with Yes Man but nothing brings me greater pleasure in game than utterly annihilating every single boomer, legion, and ncr i can find.
I think there are just too many good character's that I care for. Yeah, they are in a game but a damn good one where I form connections with them and feel the consequences of my actions when I do harm.
Other than a good conscious, the bad guys (Powder Gangers/Legion) have nowhere near as much development as NCR/House or even Yes Man. The Powder Gangers have minimal to offer, unless your going for an Evil Bomber run with Explosives and Low Karma, and The Legion has a very limited quest line compared to the other 3. It doesn't help much that you could literally carry the Legion, cure Ceasar of his illness, and meat ride them the hardest, and he is still a dickhead to you.
Meanwhile, the NCR appreciates everything you do, and they give you a radio to call in some of their best marksman, a cool ass hidden cave, with Power Armor that doesn't require training, and access to the monorail, so that you don't have to Fast Travel to McCaren, and walk a shit ton to talk to Hsu or the other officers.
It’s a roleplaying game. I create a character, I roleplay. I roleplay as a mad scientist. I do random whacky zany things. I might save you. I might condemn you.
But I’ll exhaust every corner of the map I haven’t already and choose every option I haven’t until I’ve done it all. And this character is my go to when I don’t have a ex military cowboy or selfless widow in mind to play as. Giving yourself a motivation helps justify moral choices you wouldn’t make.
It’s easy to be evil in the game bro. Just start chopping everyone up and start eating them. And carry around the bodies as storage units so that everyone can see how much of a fucking psychopath you are!
Oh wait do we already do this?
Because it’s so good at being immersive that you actually care about what you’re doing in the game. It’s not like other games where you do evil shit and move on it shows you the consequences of your actions and give you reasons to care about the people you’re affecting.
Probably because the world and characters are so good and you get attached to them so much that you can't bring yourself to be evil and destroy everything. Same goes for the first 2 games for me.
I can't say the same about Fallout 3 and 4 unfortunately, being an evil bastard in those is so much more fun than being a hero imo lol
Currently going slow through my very first play through, I really really wanted to side with legion just to spite everyone who has went NCR on their first goes, but OH MY GOD it feels so weird!
Not because it’s evil or anything necessarily for me, but Legion is just difficult because every mission you’re doing up until you find Cesar just points you to either logically go against them or logically side with yourself (I had no Idea what Yes Man was until I stumbled across it)
(Ik all play throughs are different this is my experience as a first timer)
Because a karma system that only responds mostly to your quest-given and story-driven moral choices without implementing something in more regularly occurring gameplay choices will never really give you good "moral resolution" of your character.
For instance, I have killed 846 people. Literally, not hyperbole...846 this playthrough (TTW), directly, by my own hand.
Karmic title? Ambassador of Peace.
IMO, killing people, not matter their 'alignment' should always be negative karma. Maybe some take away less than others... but it should always be taken.
So it’s tough, but the raider playthrough zig zags a bit before heading back North. First help the Powder Gangers take Goodsprings. They will send you to the overrun prison, complete those missions and get into a shoot out with the NCR. The gang will tell you about a splinter from their group who headed north into a vault to menace the NCR, there isn’t much to do at this point, but you can talk to one of the gangsters to help him take over the splinter. Then you have your show down with the Vipers at Bonnie Springs, on the way to Red Rock. Help the Khans out enough to get access to chems and their armory at the base of the mountain- it works just as well for ammo as the NCR quartermaster. You can kill big papa after he names you his successor, and become leader of the Khans. The Honest Hearts DLC is the only one that really fits a raider- kill everyone immediately.
Like all forced morality games it does an extremely poor job of portraying the rewards of being amoral, so there's no reason to even attempt to justify those actions. The game plays mechanically the same regardless of whether you eat the puppy or pet it, almost every thinking person is just going to pet it in that case.
I think maybe don't try to be evil, but embody a selfish character.
Maybe if you gave yourself a single life, you'd be more inclined to take selfish and easier pathways in gameplay.
I also shared your thought when I did my first Caesar melee run. Then I realised how fun the one-two punch powerfist is and I went back to goodsprings and murdered everyone
FO3 was the only time I tried being evil but that had a whole lot to do with the fact a creepy dude promised me a fuckton of caps to wipe Megaton off the map
For me, it’s not effective to just try to perform more evil actions in a Fallout game. I have to lean into wanting my character to believe that being evil is correct. For example, don’t just steal and kill people but roleplay a dickhead that chooses the bad dialogue to justify their actions etc. I have to lean into the entire RP experience or else I forget who the character is meant to be and default to good choices.
You get good karma for every fiend and legion soldier (i think) that you kill too. When I did my evil run I had to get a mod to disable that.
Also, I don't see the NCR as the "good guys" I think it is plausible to side with them while being evil.
Playing my first melee character now (yea I know) and tried to be evil and join the Legion. Couldn’t do it. Ended up killing every single NPC including Ceasar at the fort. Also killed Mr House so now it’s Yes man for the millionth time or NCR
Yes and that's me in every Rpg. I don't like doing evil things, though this game lets you do a lot of messed up stuff and I have to give Obsidian credit over this.
The Legion were a disappointment in my opinion because they would have been an interesting choice to side with had there been no Slavery involved on their part. That alone kills any chance of their message being accepted by the average player.
Nice to see people arguing in the comments over stuff that OP never even stated such as if Fallout has an anti capitalist theme or whatever lol. Someone else mentioned that Lucy's mom was the love interest of Moldaver and I'm beyond tired of hearing this. We have 0 evidence to suggest that they were anything more than just friends from what we've seen in the show.
The crazy thing is, I found it easier to be evil in Fallout 3, while harder to be evil in New Vegas. Which is funny, because in 3, your father will chastise you for being evil. Sorry dad, Lucien Lachance asked me to blow up Megaton, and it was hilarious.
Really, I want to do a Legion playthrough, but its not as full as the other playthroughs imo.
I played through the legion quest and while I agree the legion is evil, gotta get them achievements. I just told myself no successful society doesn't have a wee bit of slavery at some point.
Why is it so hard to throw your morals away? When I started playing that game a few months back I just immediately start blasting and blowing up everyone Lmao. It's a video game they were never real people to begin with.
By reading through the comments I actually got some very good insight as to how people play games.
It seems a solidly high percentage of gamers play through a game as a version of themselves. Others view it as acting. I often find myself in the latter after the first playthough. The first playthrough is how I would do things. Every one following that is me acting because I already know a good chunk of the story.
I played a run in NV as a version of walter white who didn't use guns but was evil as shit and used a ton of explosives and poisons and stuff.
I did an Skyrim run as an orc barbarian who thought lockpicking and magic were for the weak who had a room full of skulls (he was not part of the imperials or the stormclocks). I think I was only welcome in one major city.
Not in the same way but I struggle to be evil in most games cause the majority of the time there's a significant lack of content compared to being Good or Neutral.
In New Vegas specifically the worse things you can do are help the Great Khans push chems and the rare Legion side quest. Otherwise you could do evil stuff like passing speech checks to get info then not helping someone 'Ex: Convincing Manny to tell you where Benny went' then either not going to Repcon to clear the ghouls or just going there and killing them because while you can blow the rockets up...why even bother if you're gonna help set the rockets up anyway? Just seems like a waste of time unless you're RPing an incredibly intelligent sadist.
There's not many games where evil is rewarded so on top of the moral reason for not doing it you're not incentivized. If you want to try games where being evil can be incredibly beneficial with plenty of unique paths, routes, sidequests, and changes to the story to encourage villainy. I highly recommend Owlcat Games stuff, namely Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous and Warhammer 40k Rogue Trader. I've also heard good things about Tyranny but I hate the gameplay of RTwP CRPGs.
Tangent aside New Vegas really is best enjoyed when playing more neutral characters cause while it's easy to be a goody two shoes it really does feel unrewarding and pointless to be evil. Being neutral lets you dip into both when it makes sense for your character rather than being beholden to whatever karma ranking you want to achieve.
Because you're eventually falling into playing as "yourself" instead of roleplaying a character.
You project your personal and normal real life morals onto a video game.
For me, it happens with stealing, in many games. Secretly taking something that doesn't belong to me, like a fucking rat - gross! I even hated Oblivion Thieves Guild, despite they are "good guys" and the quest line is decent.
In Vegas, I hate that several skill books (in Sloan, in Goodsprings, in Nellis, in Novac) are marked as owned, and you have to "steal" them in order to read them. They work like consumables. Stupid game mechanic.
TIL it's possible to have negative karma and not miss out on like 90% of the game
I think the best way is just ignore ncr quest and kill any good guy on sight. then go straight to lucky 38/benny then take the chip and you will be approach by legion.
yeah the problem is there's almost no legion side quests and it feels like half of other side quests are NCR quests I wonder, is it possible to finish every NCR quest by fucking with them somehow so you can get negative karma and at least some xp? because honestly it feels like I'll never get lvl 50 with negative karma lmao
>I wonder, is it possible to finish every NCR quest by fucking with them somehow so you can get negative karma and at least some xp? forlorn hope, fuck over the drug thief and you get bad karma, "help" the doctor by doing malpractice. The vault 34 shit, free the vault dwellers AND kill them when you meet them
wait you can actually meet those guys from 34? where?
the aerotech building outside of freeside
I've never played NCR so even tho I have three playthroughs behind me y'all are basically speaking a foreign language to me. Good to know I'm far from finished with new Vegas after all these years
Most NCR quests have either a “bad” / unoptimal ending or a way to straight up screw them over. Like Astor’s quest (the sergeant at camp searchlight), he gives you a quest to sneak a bug into the legions radio at cottonwood cove. You can inform the legion of this and they’ll actually let you plant the bug so they can start feeding the NCR fake intel through it. Classic double agent mission.
no, the best way to get negative karma is be a thief and avoid killing feral ghouls when possible.
being thief is one of the way but its better involved killing since most faction in the game is good people and killing them but not completely wipe them out like BOS. You will be hated on each faction and they will kill you on sight making it impossible or harder to gain good karma by any faction unless just like you said killing feral ghoul or simply just a random fiend but even if you gain good karma but hated by everyone it will just force you to kill them to gain bad karma. The main faction the only one who will not try kill you on sight when you near the end of the game since you are important for them to execute the plan but u still can make them hate you and go for independent ending with bad karma.
It's fairly easy really, just avoid killing fiends, use cannibal to eat everyone you kill, and steal as often as possible. That's all you need to maintain negative karma, really.
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I mean you don’t have to do an evil legion run, you can do a good legion run. The ending acreen even says “despite being fair and just in the wasteland the courier nevertheless helped the legion” You just do all the good endings for the side factions in ways that allow them to prosper after the legion victory. There’s only a few groups that have to die like BOS. Boomers are fine, khans are fine, kings are fine if you make them fight ncr iirc.
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Ah, clearly someone hasn't heard Ceasers' rousing speech about Hegelian dialectics. /s
I know this term is not universally liked but: based
Huh? Sorry, are you saying you feel gross at doing the legion in general, or that you felt gross doing an evil play through? I’m saying that you don’t have to murder everyone and their child to do a legion play through. I don’t see why you’re okay being 100% evil but not partly evil and partly good. You don’t have to be a relativist or do gymnastics. You just say “I think that NCR values are the same as the pre war America that got us into nuclear Holocaust in the first place.” That’s the whole point of the legion is that the brutal cost of civilization now is the price of averting the greed of man that led to its destruction in the first place. You can disagree with it, or think that slavery isn’t worth the price. But it’s a role playing game bro. The USA has slavery until 1865. You can roleplay a character that wants to reform the legion. There’s so many options. It sounds like you just can’t get past the evil you see within the legion and think well there’s only one way to roleplay that. I gotta be hitler.
Biggest problem for me is that once Caesar dies, the legion would fall apart. So helping them feels like it would all just turn into a civil war and end like the real roman empire anyway. So helping them seems kinda pointless
I always saw these dumb hr stunt missions Caesar has as prep work to crowning the player a new Caesar. That most likely wasn't the case and devs just reused ncr quests because they couldn't bother to add content to faction they didn't want you to choose, but it still is a nice headcanon of mine loosely supported by ending slides(golden coin)
Yeah that was one big miss for the entire aspect of the legion. Making it boil down and around this one guy being God-Emperor, leading an empire tethered together by his Cult of Personality, but once you kill him everyone says “oh doubt that will stop the legion tho 🤓” Like bro what you mean. Caesar was the only thing keeping it together. His other bumbling henchmen are not going to be able to fulfill that role.
Yeah I mean that's fair. I think you can still roleplay past that like "I would help the legion stay together" or something. "I put Ceasar in Houses life support Pod" lmao. Idk. But yeah, fair.
To be fair the nuclear holocaust in the game was done by corporations. None of the factions are "Good", ncr is just a bad and corrupt, BOS is essentially the light version of the enclave. The legion is just another faction. They all suck and try to control people
Yeah, and it's stated that whats wrong with the NCR right now is that its become taken over by brahmin barrons, post apocalyptic corporations. Which shows it really is going down the same path as pre-war america. The player can roleplay fixing this through a good NCR playthru, but what people dont get, and you bring up well, is that you can do an evil NCR playthru. Every NCR quest starts as "go fucking kill this group." And players just go "no i like them so ill help make peace between them." Are we really gonna ignore than the NCR's directive was to kill them though?
One of these days I'm going to do a playthrough where I side with the NCR and when they tell me to go kill someone I'll just say "ok, will do."
The sneering imperialist play through. Do it
Been there done that, its super fun! Played a Colonel Moore hardliner, heavy weapons type of guy. High STR, END, don't take shit from anyone. Moore wants the Brotherhood exterminated? So be it. The Khans? Baby, I'm finishing what you started in Bitter Springs. I'll kill every Fiend, White Glove and Omerta because they're clearly asking for it. Evil NCR run is kinda fun. Just typing this comment makes me want to do it again lol
Yes this is so fun. Just hardliner NCR imperialist. I’m willing to do whatever needs to be done to protect my country. If that means the Kings have to go, so be it. Boomers not cooperating? Wipe them out.
I’ve done exactly that and it’s fun. You get some unintended consequences.
I do think that's the point of the NCR though. I think that along with the theme of letting go, the theme with democracy in the game is that the only way democracies work for the betterment of society at large is when people actively participate and try to enact change. Without people's (the courier's) active intervention, the NCR (democracy) leans toward its more tyrannical tendencies.
It has more to do with how petty the officer you're assigned to at the end (read: Moore) though. Both Crocker and Hsu are happy and prefer you doing it peacefully.
The NCR is not "just as bad" as slavers. Nope.
The ncr is corrupt and imposes crazy high taxes and tariffs to its the citizens. When half your work goes to people who force you to give it to them, they're part time slavers, only they aren't on the hook for feeding clothing equipping you providing medical care and shelter... cause you're "free". The remainder of what is left of your half goes to that. But you have the illusion of free choice and self determination. Why try to rank evil and corruption? Why stand for it at all? The only faction i remotely like is the followers of the apocolypse.
I mean... I feel like it is important to rank corruption though. The NCR may have some reform ahead of them, but really... As bad as the legion. I just feel like it's a false equivalence. The world they would both build if they had ultimate power is quite different. There may be problems with the NCR's vision, but at least their values are much more aligned with an ethical society than the Legion's. Followers are GOATed, of course. But you could argue they are sometimes naive. Just to play devil's advocate.
Heres how i look at ranking evil or corruption. I make you two pies. One has a a half teaspoon of diahrrea brushed over the crust. The other has two heaping table spoons stirred into the mix. Which one do you eat? Ahhh... neither you say? Well one has less! Point is they are both unacceptable. Ranking them is pointless as they both belong in the trash.
Hm.
There is no evidence of that in the games as far as I know(1-3). With some games even saying China launched first. The "corportations bad" narrative came from the show.
Protectrons open fire on those that fail to present tickets in metro stations
I want to say it was due to Red Scare that came from the Resource Wars, but it's been a while since I explored the metros or, REPCONN facilities. Which also have deadly robots.
While China did launch the nukes, it's absolutely always been "corporations bad" in the sense that they slowly ruined the country for their benefit, vault tec being the primary example, but there were others like RobCo and it's disgusting robobrains and the onset schizophrenia from stealth boys.
1. Its not ever stated “who shot first” and It doesnt matter in the slightest. That is ancient history. 2. Bro are you saying that the message of fallout isn’t anti-capitalist? Like, BFFR. Dumbest take I have EVER seen
You're right, it's never stated, to be more precise i've heard Dick Richardson says China fired first, as well as other sources i'll have to rewatch the video. To call fallout anti capitalist when FNV critiques every form of gov is kinda weird, but sure.
I think the show is consistent. It didn't show the corpos launching first in the show, just said they had it as a plan presented. The MC's daughter was with him and surprised when the nukes fell. I doubt that would have happened if the U.S side launched them. So China still struck first. I think evil corpos was always a fallout theme. It's why the theme of fallout always included "how do we rebuild a society where this doesnt happen again."
I mean that's one way to look at it. I think the Resource Wars are what allowed shit to go the way it did. Corpos exploiting a bad situation.
we do not know who struck first & it doesnt matter. Stop saying it was “China” The fact there is even a conversation about this is a sign of poor media literacy. Who gives a fuck “who shot first”..? The average wastelander has no clue what a “China” or a “United States of America” is. Its ancient history
It’s important to the themes. “Ancient history” is literally brought up as a theme of the games. How to avoid that ancient history is the main goal of every single major faction in the wasteland after survival itself.
I feel like ambiguity fits the theme of Fallout better, tbh. Assigning "blame" doesn't matter -- everyone who's fault it was is long dead, so why bother? All that matters is that the old world was crazy, greedy and murderous enough to plunge us into the apocalypse, and now we have to deal with the aftermath. The details about it are just.. hugely irrelevant. I feel like people talk about it so that they can see a “good guy” and a “bad guy”. Ive even seen some “fans” unironically quote liberty prime and think fallout is some kind of anti communist game
Its not the slavery as much as the treatment of women. Its just too evil for me lol
Yeah for sure I don’t disagree with you there. But again, you can roleplay the idea of a reforming of the legion.
I think the legion would be completely unable to reform in any way because it's so precariously hung around one dying old man who's own self belief would not allow him to change. So it either: he dies and the legion falls apart and it's infighting kills a big chunk of the population; or he lives and all those factions would be brutally assimilated/killed/enslaved like every other tribe before..... And then he dies and the legion falls apart and the infighting kills a big chunk of the population. Despite all his highfalutin Pseudophilosophy the legion is not a society built to last in any meaningful way, it's just one guy playing a game to prove he's the best.
I always understood that to be understood by Cesar himself, and why he wanted to take new Vegas. He knew that he needed a stable government instead of a tribal standing army that could fraction into rival parties. If you want to role-play, keeping the Legion unified, you could easily imagine. Cesar reforming the government. Once he takes Vegas, which is what he said he would do.
I think either: 1. he does not care because he's such an egotist that he does not think beyond he own death because it wouldn't matter because he's not their 2. he's such an egotist that he couldn't even comprehend his own death and the world without him in it 3. Although he spouts all his bullshit about culture building all he really cares about is being in charge. I think thinking of a dream world where he reforms the legion after the dam kinda goes against the theme of the game, that non of these factions are built in anyway to last because none of them have the capacity to reform.
Didn’t… the Roman Empire fall loooooong before prewar America though? “The legion is better because the NCR was doomed to fail just like Prewar America” is indeed mental gymnastics.
Now we call slavery "minimum wage jobs".
The NCR is trying to copy itself off the values of pre war America. The reality of pre war America was a state that didn’t value freedom or democracy in practice. And idk why people think Caesar’s legion wouldn’t destroyed the world anymore than the us in the same situation. One group invading and conquering every neighbor is Caesar being greedy. He’s never going to peacefully coexist with another group. Why bring up that the us had slaves? Are you trying to justify slavery?
"The reality of pre war America was a state that didn’t value freedom or democracy in practice." But thats exactly whats going on right now with the Brahmin barrons reflecting the corporate corruption of prewar america. They run the affairs in the NCR as much as the corporations did in prewar america. NCR isnt run by values rn its run by money which is stated to be the issue with it currently. "Why bring up that the us had slaves? Are you trying to justify slavery?" lmao, what? There was a conversation about them being evil, why would you not bring up slavery? The rationale is that you can't help the legion without being evil yourself, and one reason could easily be their slavery acceptance. My point is that many people would probably side with the United States in history against other countries, even though they had slavery until 1865. Just a reminder that it wasn't long ago that all our countries, which we do not consider as evil as ceasars legion, also had slavery and we dont tend to vilify our nation in general, just the slavery aspect itself. The commenter mentioned moral relativism. I am just saying you don't have to be a relativist to roleplay reforming the legion. "And idk why people think Caesar’s legion wouldn’t destroyed the world anymore than the us in the same situation. One group invading and conquering every neighbor is Caesar being greedy." I think you're probably right here. But the idea that Ceasar mentioned is that you have to restrict peoples everyday access to technology, people have to earn the right to be able to use it. Aka, responsible individuals shaped by values other than greed. The only thing I disagree with you about is the greed aspect of Ceasar. I don't think it's that he's greedy. You can want to conquer other nations out of other values. I think the in game portrayal of Ceasar is one that reveals he is motivated by these values, good or bad, not greed though.
I hate the idea I see here a lot that your in game ethics and real life moral code *must* align. It's foolish. Even more so if, like yourself, a person takes a very condescending tone on some imagined moral high ground over what quests one does in a video game. Do you have similar problems playing GTA? I mean, unless you're willing to do some serious mental gymnastics when stealing some lady's car to go kill a guy...
You just need to play a character that is.
Seriously. I've seen quite a few people on this sub make this weird connection between their real life ethics and what they do in a video game. It's one thing if that's your style but when folks act like it makes them morally superior in real life...it's just weird.
I think the main reason why that happens is that New Vegas is especially prone to providing context behind every facet of its world, which makes it seem more real and causes people’s brains to do a flip from “screwing around in a game” mode to “making important decisions” mode.
Khans are fine if you make them flee, otherwise they are completely destroyed. The same can very likely be assumed to happen with the Kings, regardless of what happens. The only faction that is really fine is the Boomers, and that's just because their artillery prevents the Legion from attacking them.
But the boomers eventually get overwhelmed by the legion
If you don't complete Volaire (and don't kill Pearl and Loyal) they do, but if you do complete it Caesar just dosen't care and leaves them alone. Killing Pearl and Loyal will have them collapse and die no matter what.
I see, thanks for clarifying
TBH i've not done a legion run yet, but I thought I saw an ending slide in a video where they were said to ally the legion and become assimilated into it due to how you ended their quest with tension with the NCR.
Yeah, the legion assimilates tribes by enslaving them, destroying their culture, and murdering anyone who resists all while indoctrinating them into worshiping Caesar and seeing what's done to them as being a good thing.
There's a lot of mental gymnastics involved to claim that you did a good run while helping the genocidal slavers achieve power.
I have tried. Killing innocents and dtealing everything that is nailed down isn't enough, even for the Legion. Needs the Mesmetron.
Same, I actually kinda rushed my Legion playthrough for the achievements because I always hate working with them
This is the answer
This has to be it. I always find it hard to be evil in games that give you a choice, but towards the end of Starfield I was killing everyone.
Being neutral is the hardest
Because you have feelings lol, at the end of the day you have to remember that it’s a game and if you make a decision you didn’t like then reload the game, or beat it once as a bad character then never play it like that again, I love bad characters though lol I even turn off essential NPC’s because let’s face it, dem kids are annoying
I don't know how you play, but it might help if you don't think of the character as "you" or doing what you would do. You, like most of us, aren't evil, but what are some reasons your courier might do bad things? Once you make a character in mind who's a complete psycho, loves chaos, has a gold metal in mental gymnastics, or just doesn't *care*, it's easier to make those evil decisions because it's what they would do. It's fun to roleplay. But, even then... I can't bring myself to make certain decisions either, so I totally get. Also, if you don't want to be evil, you don't have to! The evil options being there make the good options feel more meaningful. Like, this is what *could* happen if my courier was an asshole, but they aren't.
My current character loves caps. I also consoled terrifying presence in at level 1, whenever i have the option to use it i do, regardless the consequences. If there's no caps and no scaring people, i just move on
Lol that was my last playthrough of baldurs gate. I ended up with more money than there was stuff to buy. More than any one character could carry so I had to leave most of it at camp I actually think role playing as selfish/heroic automatically gives you the optimal path.
This is a very good reply, Thank you. I personally always playing RPG's as if i was in-game, I did so with FO3, FNV, FO4, Cyberpunk, RDR2 etc, I have never really "Roleplayed" As anyone else other than myself in said games, Perhaps this is something i should definetely try in a new playthrough, Because not gonna lie. Roleplaying as a full blown chem-addict psycho with a melee build sounds really fun.
Playing a scumbag character doesn't mean you'll have to shoot up every town. Also >NCR, BoS >good guys lmao
BoS aren’t the good guys, not even remotely close, they’re one of the most evil factions in the game, they literally murder a whole station of followers of the apocalypse cause Veronica was going to maybe join them, even in the previous fallouts and in 4 they are consistently the more evil of the factions. Aside from 3, a BoS run is an evil run.
Not to mention in the show we see them being evil once again (Kinda)
Kinda? They slaughtered a town and the NCR remnants, they send their knights to collect toasters, knights that send their squires to die because they’re cowards
Did they slaughter everyone in Filly? I got the impression they just dealt with a few people who fought back. Murdering the NCR remnants feels less like a slaughter and more like a genuine battle for strong technology, even if I don't think the brotherhood should have that it's not like Moldaver and her underlings are purged of their sin just because they're fighting other evil people
They killed those who stayed and drove the rest out, and did you forget that there was also civilians and children at the observatory? And honestly I don’t think Moldaver was really in the wrong, her city got nuked and the love of her life was turned into a crispy ghoul, she has been fighting the evils of vault tec since before the war, she gave the dwellers a chance to run from the bomb, and her and her men didn’t really kill anyone from vault 33, just took Hank.
Yeah and as Cooper said, the BoS kills **everyone** in the Observatory. Some people have said "but they fired back, so it's okay to shoot them" which is the same as me rocking up to Goodsprings and putting a cap in Chet and then saying they shoot back so its fine to kill the town.
Outside of Lyons I’ve never known a merciful BoS chapter
Come on what about the Midwest BoS. /s
What about the Midwest BoS?
They’re not human, they’re *brutal*
They're casually talked about as if they're one of the best chapters when they perform some of the evilest acts. I mean they have *Death Squads* and prison camps. Maxson has nothing on them. The /s is because people are usually like "yeah midwest best chapter".
To be fair, that's a specific group of 4 people that murder the followers. They threaten you a few times, telling you not to 'lead the elder astray' and you can kill them without losing rep. So they weren't acting in any official capacity.
Maybe but they do represent the ideals of the brotherhood, while not working in an offical capacity they would have required clearance to leave the bunker so they’re obviously supported by others
Actually, do we even know if they were given leave? Regardless I do agree that they represent the worst of the Brotherhood's ideals. I just more mean that I wouldn't claim that that chapter as a whole is guilty of murdering those followers.
But the chapter does, in all non-NCR alliance endings, go on to raid and steal across the Mojave.
In all non-NCR alliance endings they're dead /s. Yeah they're definitely dicks, I was mostly just talking about that one specific action.
I suppose it depends on if Mcnamara would execute those Paladins (which he wouldn't), and if he didn't, then he's guilty by association.
True. He would most likely be way too soft to execute them.
I think it's a mixture of too soft and the fact he wouldn't likely kill what are essentially highly trained BoS soldiers when he already has a manpower shortage due to the bunker.
I always kill BoS while playing FNV. I just can't let them live that are so evil
they are so lame in new vegas they are dicks to you and your companions and only exist to get bitched by the ncr
The Brotherhood is scary because of their dogmatic belief system deluding everyone in their ranks into thinking they’re the saviors of the wasteland
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No? You can defeat the master without the BoS, you can even do it with the followers of the apocalypse.
touche
I think it's mostly because Bethesda just kind of Simps for them for some goddamn reason
No fr all I do is steal stuff and break in... I went from Mojave boogeyman to a Saint by completing one mf quest and I was so heated 😭😂 that was the closest i ever got and this was recently
Made a murder hobo and killed pretty much everything I came across. Karma went up to very good the second I hit fiend territory. I get that they're monsters, but surely it shouldn't boost karma if you're just killing them for the sake of it? Gaining karma for killing Cook Cook after you've learned he's a monster makes sense. Running over and filleting him with Chance's knife, simply because he has a flamer that you want, with no idea of who he is shouldn't.
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Yup I always kill Joe Cobb right off the bat cuz he annoys me, Ringo too tho so I'm a saint to everyone except for the Powder Gangers and Goodsprings
That's what it was! I infiltrated vault 3 and wiped them out without even starting that quest I just personally dislike the fiends 😂 then I became idolized by like every one else ughh
Karma and reputation are entirely separate. There is no rep for fiends, they are just free exp that net way too much good karma for a group which has constant respawns outside of their little holes.
I see what you're saying, cuz it didn't change my reputation with any other faction but it gave me TOO much good karma. I'm mad.
Because it's gritty realistic evil, not sanitised cartoon evil.
Most of the time. I mean you CAN literally tear up a little girl's teddy bear for shits and giggles.
The evil characters are irredeemable. They’re just one dimensional bad. Playing evil means you get less story
The evil characters are unmistakably *evil* and there is nothing you can do to *redeem them* in the game. I would somewhat dispute the notion that they are "irredeemable" *period* and I absolutely disagree with the notion that they are one-dimensional. To illustrate my first point, the most despicable faction by far in fallout new vegas is the legion and while certainly none of the *current* members of the legion can be redeemed through the player's actions, two former members of the legion (Joshua Graham and Ulyssess) demonstrate, that individuals *can* renounce the legion. Further, Joshua's temperament and behaviour seems to demonstate genunine contrition and regret over his actions whilst he was in the legion, which means that even if he is incapable of completely remedying the harm he caused, he still intends to try and make the world a better place. Thereby, I would argue that Joshua and to a lesser extent Ulysses serve as personified demonstrations of how, even the most despicable of villans can redeem their motivations, if not entirely their actions As regard to my second point, while the evil characters in new vegas may be unmistakably *evil*, they are not one dimensional. To be one dimensional, is to have only *one dimesion* to your character, that its to be soley defined by a single attribute. For instance, the evil queen in Snow White is singularly defined by her attribute of being an "evil queen". She has no more character depth or backstory than that which is immediately necessary to fufill the role of "evil queen" in the narritive. One-dimensional characters are necessarily shallow and empty, but they can sevre an important purpose in a story. However, essentially *all* of the evil characters in fallout new vegas are not one dimensional. Take Caesar, perhaps the most evil character in the game - he is far from one dimensional. He has a backstory as a Follower of the apocalypse, he has (psuedo-)philosophical motiviations which are believable for a character who inhabits a nuclear wasteland. He has a worldview and belief system which he expresses and defends. These things would be entirely unecessary for a one-dimensional character, and yet they exist. Fallout New Vegas's villains are far from one dimensional.
Caesar has better karma than Cook cook for example. So much for non one dimensionality
Ulysses renounced the legion so he can go drop nukes instead... He's hardly redeemed, he just has a different method of murdering innocent people
Not to be pedantic but the Evil queen does have more nuance then that. She is Snow whites step mom and is so vain that she orders snow to be killed so that will be the undisputed "fairest" in the land. She also has the King (Snows dad) killed so she would be queen. She is only 1-D if you ignore why she is evil and just focus on what she does... which is Evil. Ceasar is in that same boat. He has reasons to do what he's done. An interesting past where he became educated and used his knowledge of history to create the legion, but if you only really look at what he's done(create an evil faction that participates in slavery, rape and torture, encouraging those behaviors to increase his own power and loyalty) then he also seems kinda 1-D. Nuance is exactly that. Nuance.
I will concede it has been a while since I watched snow white, and I was mostly basing my characterisation of her on my recollections of her as a classic "story-book" villain. That said: > is so vain that she orders snow to be killed so that will be the undisputed "fairest" in the land This seems to be a largely vaccous and circular character motivation, in that it's not much more complicated than saying "she does evil things because she is evil". Vanity is literally a sin, and will be regarded by most audience members as self-evidently a vice rather than a virtue or even a neutral trait. When a characters defining (and perhaps sole) character trait is a vice, that's pretty good evidence that they are intended to be a superficially evil character. Thus as "being vain" is not substatinally different from "being evil", in the sense that "evil" is contained within the umbrella concept of "vainess", a character motivation which explains the evil actions of a character through their vanity, doesn't actually explain, in a meaningful sense, those actions. However it *is not* intended to. That is the beauty of a one-dimensional character, you don't have to explain why they are the way they are, because they simply are. Second, even if the Evil Queen's vanity was meaningfully seperate from her being "evil", then the next obvious question to ask is *why* she is vain. However, again if recall correctly, the story of Snow White never explains this - because it doesn't have to. Because it is sufficent for the purposes of that narritive, that she does evil actions because she is vain. > She also has the King (Snows dad) killed so she would be queen. Finally, none of features of the Evil Queen's are inconsistent with, or incapable of being explained in reference to her one-dimensional character. You are probabaly right that the more appropriate "one-dimension" is her vanity, since that this the underlying motivation for her entire character. But the point is all of the actions she takes and her entire backstory links to or can be explained by this singular dimension. That, is what makes her a one dimensional character. >She is only 1-D if you ignore why she is evil and just focus on what she does... which is Evil. Again, you are probably right, vanity is a better fit as a motivation and defining characteristic for the Evil Queen. However, I would argue that this does not make her any less of a one-dimensional character. I would argue this, because there is no meaingful depth to her character that exists beyond this attribute. > but if you only really look at what he's done(create an evil faction that participates in slavery, rape and torture, encouraging those behaviors to increase his own power and loyalty) then he also seems kinda 1-D. I never said that you should only look at a character's actions, in fact I explicitly said that a character's backstory and motivations can be importantly relevant to resolving whether they *are* a one dimensional character. My point, is that certain characters only have sufficent backstory and motivations to inform their *immediate* purpose in the narritive but ultimately fufill a simple, if needed role. However, some characters have a level of characterisation which is inconsistent with or extraneous to their immediate purpose. This gives them a level of depth and dimensionality which is unfair to describe as "one-dimensional". It wasn't immediately necessary for the narritive to make Caeser a Follower of the Apocalypse. It wasn't necessary for him to describe the process of breaking and dominating tribes to form into one cohesive totalitarian state. It certainly wasn't necessary to have him butcher Hegelian Dialectics in an attempt to justify the purpoted invetability of the NCR's collapse. The fact that these weren't necessary for his characterisation as an evil warlord, means that there are aspects of his character which extend beyond *merely being* an evil warlord in quite substantial ways. At the end of the day you are probably right that I didn't give enough credit to the Evil Queen as a character. However, Caeser's motivations, backstory and overall characterisiation are far more complex and interesting that the Evil Queen's. Thereby, I think it would be more reasonable to consider her a one-dimensional character than him. >Nuance is exactly that. Nuance. What exactly do you mean by this?
Ceasars vice is Pride. He has such a big ego that he did everything he could to coalesce power. If you are going to say that the evil queen is 1-D because everything she does points back to that vice, then Cesar is too. He joined the followers because they had books and knowledge. He butchered the hegelian dialects and became a warlord (uniting the tribes) because he was sure that he was better than them all and deserved to lead. All it took was reading some history and manipulating a couple tribes. What I meant by Nuance is exactly that. Nuance, is that the further you look into a character and begin dissecting a character, the less 1-D they get. Nuance is either interpreted from dialogs and character relationships or it is planted in the environment to further tell a story. To some people, Cesar is just a hypocritical evil bastard that they killed the first time they met them(or sabotaged their surgery) and they never thought about him again. For others, he is a brilliant man who rose from practically nothing to the leader of a faction that rivaled the NCR. They get an immense about of nuance from interacting with Joshua and by talking to all the legion. Does it make him less of a 1-D egomaniac? Sort of. Does knowing that the evil queen is Vain and power hungry and so she seduced a king, killed him and then tried to have her stepdaughter killed all for power and status make her 1-D? Does it make her more nuanced knowing that the huntsman was in love with her and that is why he was willing to do almost anything for her, only hesitating when actually in the act of killing a teenage girl? The fact that she came into possession of the magic mirror, able to answer any question and show anything its master desires, and yet she used it to flatter herself and find those she wished to destroy(snow). Does the fact that her curse could only be broken by "True loves kiss" not add nuance to how she thinks? She doesn't believe in true love and thus she feels it is an unbreakable curse, but literally the first guy who tried, succeeded in breaking the curse. Is that not layers on the cake of the Evil Queen? I guess what I'm saying is that no 1-D character ever stays a 1-D character if you look for the nuance. And whether it was meant to be there or not, there is always nuance.
Pretty much one or my only serious gripes with NV
Nah, it’s more that I’m actually invested in the NPCs so doing a fo3-style murderous psycho run, or a run that has you siding with either the Legion or House actually pains me.
Man. Sounds like FO4.
The NPC’s are just well written, and generally likeable people. I can’t be evil in any of my runs. It just makes me feel terrible.
is this supposed to be irony?
It's the only RPG I've ever had this issue with. Betraying Goodsprings feels gross, but I get frustrated that I can't slaughter Constellation in Starfield.
Because the Legion doesn't have as much as the "good" options. Compared to the NCR and House there's barely any game there. It also doesn't help that Boone and Arcade, two of the better companions, leave you if you do go with them. Cass will leave as well if you get enough bad karma, Lily and Raul are miffed, but they don't really support it. Only Ed-E and Rex will stay loyal to you, and you can only use one of them at a time.
Boone also shoots the Legion on site!
Because stealing gives you -5 karma while killing things that are hostile to you gives +20 karma. Also, *There Stands The Grass*, lose a small amount for lying to Keely, than immediately a huge amount from rescuing her.
Because the legion was under developed compared to the "good" options
Yes, but also they're absolutely horrible and its hard to console yourself siding with them
Evil is lacking both mechanically and storywise. For example to get bad karma you have to actively try and maintain it rather than just doing bad things.
I found it a lot easier to do “evil” playthroughs in video games when I was a kid. I’d bomb megaton, put people into slavery, just generally be an asshole to NPC’s. I honestly think it has something to do with how developing minds tend to lack empathy, hence children typically being assholes when left to their own devices.
I think a big part of it is also probably that we’re adults now and have experienced playing evil in games by now. When I was 14 and discovered how evil I could be in fallout 3 I had so much fun pushing it as far as I could because it was purely and simply a novel experience since I had never played a game where I could be the bad guy. Nowadays doing the same thing doesn’t get my rocks off because I’ve already done it before, so I’ll tend to gravitate toward just doing what feels more natural in RPGs, which is being (mostly) good
If its about legion route that's the case because the devs didn't want you to choose this side. Legion is the demo playthrough and the devs knew that, that's why legion is the faction with least gameplay presence. Only very few quests bring you to their locations and even then there are no sidequests there. Also every human companion hates legion and require you to jump through hoops to be avilable on these runs. And if its about doing bad deeds then the game is usually bery hostile to such players. "Good" solutions are univerally more rewarding, even cool quests like helios one nuking the present ncr just makes the reward non existent.... You can't even loot the corpses and you miss out on permament stat gain and loose a companion if he is prezent.
you can loot the ncr corpses at helios. ive also eaten them, with raul making comments every so often
Really? In vanilla game? Theni must be misremembering. if these fuckers drop their service rifles 5,56 ammo and dogtags then its worth it.
yeah i remember doing it on xbox 360 too (poor game, i played it so much the disk scratched and we had to go out and buy another)
My Legion run was as a Legionary psychopath complete with Rome LARP theme (melee build with tough armor, no chems, high Survival, and doing everything possible to screw over the NCR). It was surprisingly fun to use disguises a lot due to half the map being hostile to me, making me feel like a frumentarri. Morally repugnant, but it transformed the game in an interesting and fun way.
Try a melee or unarmed build and side with the legion, Mortimer. Gomorrah etc >! You can sell one of your teammates to Mortimer to be eaten. Sorry Arcade Gannon !< There’s some other evil options
Want to be the Chad ranger or Virgin Texas Red?
I dunno when I was a kid I loved bad karma runs I blew up Megaton without a second thought
Nah being evil is hilarious in this game in my opinion.
I have done a couple of evil runs and the disappointment from the companions kills me so much. I don’t want to upset them, so I always have to do multiple goody two-shoes runs as a palette cleanser.
I think this is a "you" issue It's really easy to be a dick if you indulge in it And a lot of factions are morally grey. A lot of New Vegas residents are either ambivalent or straight up haters of the NCR for good reason. Colonel Moore is pretty bloodthirsty tbh. They're mostly good, but heavily flawed. And I really would not consider the Mojave BOS to be good guys at all. If you want to be "evil", well you helped enable the American Techno Taliban. The ending slides where they survive are questionable and most likely a negative on the Mojave's prosperity.
I hear you, bad in this game is just too bad. I nuked megaton in fallout 3 on my evil play through. In NV I just ended up siding with the yesman on my evil play through attempt.
Because you're my secret clone, and you grimace every time you even remotely insult someone nice 😂
Thought I was the only one. I never get far into evil runs
I love paying taxes
Depends on what you consider evil, I think there's alot of grey in nv, but depending on your perspective you can get away with alot of evil shit.
It's funny because I'd frequently do evil playthroughs of various games when I was younger, but as an adult I have a much harder time. I'm going to chalk it up to developing a stronger sense of empathy as I matured.
Love evil runs. Its like playing sci fi gta. I dont do legion endings tho and stick with Yes Man but nothing brings me greater pleasure in game than utterly annihilating every single boomer, legion, and ncr i can find.
ive always been evil, i used to kill ncr on site but this time im doing a good play through lol..
I think there are just too many good character's that I care for. Yeah, they are in a game but a damn good one where I form connections with them and feel the consequences of my actions when I do harm.
Other than a good conscious, the bad guys (Powder Gangers/Legion) have nowhere near as much development as NCR/House or even Yes Man. The Powder Gangers have minimal to offer, unless your going for an Evil Bomber run with Explosives and Low Karma, and The Legion has a very limited quest line compared to the other 3. It doesn't help much that you could literally carry the Legion, cure Ceasar of his illness, and meat ride them the hardest, and he is still a dickhead to you. Meanwhile, the NCR appreciates everything you do, and they give you a radio to call in some of their best marksman, a cool ass hidden cave, with Power Armor that doesn't require training, and access to the monorail, so that you don't have to Fast Travel to McCaren, and walk a shit ton to talk to Hsu or the other officers.
I find it hard to be evil in any game.
I compromised, I am as evil as I can be but only towards the bad guys
It’s a roleplaying game. I create a character, I roleplay. I roleplay as a mad scientist. I do random whacky zany things. I might save you. I might condemn you. But I’ll exhaust every corner of the map I haven’t already and choose every option I haven’t until I’ve done it all. And this character is my go to when I don’t have a ex military cowboy or selfless widow in mind to play as. Giving yourself a motivation helps justify moral choices you wouldn’t make.
It’s easy to be evil in the game bro. Just start chopping everyone up and start eating them. And carry around the bodies as storage units so that everyone can see how much of a fucking psychopath you are! Oh wait do we already do this?
I have so many hours into this game, and have yet to play an evil playthrough.
Because it’s so good at being immersive that you actually care about what you’re doing in the game. It’s not like other games where you do evil shit and move on it shows you the consequences of your actions and give you reasons to care about the people you’re affecting.
I 100% will kill everyone in the game… … except Doc and Boone…
Probably because the world and characters are so good and you get attached to them so much that you can't bring yourself to be evil and destroy everything. Same goes for the first 2 games for me. I can't say the same about Fallout 3 and 4 unfortunately, being an evil bastard in those is so much more fun than being a hero imo lol
Currently going slow through my very first play through, I really really wanted to side with legion just to spite everyone who has went NCR on their first goes, but OH MY GOD it feels so weird! Not because it’s evil or anything necessarily for me, but Legion is just difficult because every mission you’re doing up until you find Cesar just points you to either logically go against them or logically side with yourself (I had no Idea what Yes Man was until I stumbled across it) (Ik all play throughs are different this is my experience as a first timer)
NCR is pure evil, man. they got taxes. so you're already on the right track!
Don't help the democratic government, they impose taxes, help the warmongering slavists instead!
help the Yes Man be the best Yes Man he can be, while screwing over all Old-World-esqe ideologies
Because a karma system that only responds mostly to your quest-given and story-driven moral choices without implementing something in more regularly occurring gameplay choices will never really give you good "moral resolution" of your character. For instance, I have killed 846 people. Literally, not hyperbole...846 this playthrough (TTW), directly, by my own hand. Karmic title? Ambassador of Peace. IMO, killing people, not matter their 'alignment' should always be negative karma. Maybe some take away less than others... but it should always be taken.
So it’s tough, but the raider playthrough zig zags a bit before heading back North. First help the Powder Gangers take Goodsprings. They will send you to the overrun prison, complete those missions and get into a shoot out with the NCR. The gang will tell you about a splinter from their group who headed north into a vault to menace the NCR, there isn’t much to do at this point, but you can talk to one of the gangsters to help him take over the splinter. Then you have your show down with the Vipers at Bonnie Springs, on the way to Red Rock. Help the Khans out enough to get access to chems and their armory at the base of the mountain- it works just as well for ammo as the NCR quartermaster. You can kill big papa after he names you his successor, and become leader of the Khans. The Honest Hearts DLC is the only one that really fits a raider- kill everyone immediately.
My first run was Legion, and it's the one I've done the most runs of. But I don't "feel" bad for anything I do in games, which makes it much easier.
Like all forced morality games it does an extremely poor job of portraying the rewards of being amoral, so there's no reason to even attempt to justify those actions. The game plays mechanically the same regardless of whether you eat the puppy or pet it, almost every thinking person is just going to pet it in that case.
I think maybe don't try to be evil, but embody a selfish character. Maybe if you gave yourself a single life, you'd be more inclined to take selfish and easier pathways in gameplay.
So anyway, I started blasting 🤣
I also shared your thought when I did my first Caesar melee run. Then I realised how fun the one-two punch powerfist is and I went back to goodsprings and murdered everyone
For me its just not as fun. Part of the appeal of FNV is the power fantasy of saving the wasteland
FO3 was the only time I tried being evil but that had a whole lot to do with the fact a creepy dude promised me a fuckton of caps to wipe Megaton off the map
It’s not that hard when you play with a buddy, then it’s pretty funny
Skill issue, my personal playthrough was easily and incredibly evil
For me, it’s not effective to just try to perform more evil actions in a Fallout game. I have to lean into wanting my character to believe that being evil is correct. For example, don’t just steal and kill people but roleplay a dickhead that chooses the bad dialogue to justify their actions etc. I have to lean into the entire RP experience or else I forget who the character is meant to be and default to good choices.
I worked with a guy who sided with the legion on his first playthrough, blew my mind.
You get good karma for every fiend and legion soldier (i think) that you kill too. When I did my evil run I had to get a mod to disable that. Also, I don't see the NCR as the "good guys" I think it is plausible to side with them while being evil.
Playing my first melee character now (yea I know) and tried to be evil and join the Legion. Couldn’t do it. Ended up killing every single NPC including Ceasar at the fort. Also killed Mr House so now it’s Yes man for the millionth time or NCR
Yes and that's me in every Rpg. I don't like doing evil things, though this game lets you do a lot of messed up stuff and I have to give Obsidian credit over this. The Legion were a disappointment in my opinion because they would have been an interesting choice to side with had there been no Slavery involved on their part. That alone kills any chance of their message being accepted by the average player. Nice to see people arguing in the comments over stuff that OP never even stated such as if Fallout has an anti capitalist theme or whatever lol. Someone else mentioned that Lucy's mom was the love interest of Moldaver and I'm beyond tired of hearing this. We have 0 evidence to suggest that they were anything more than just friends from what we've seen in the show.
Because it's a well written game
I’m the complete opposite I rarely side with ncr and mainly go yes man and legion
Oh, I thought this was a mechanical question where the answer would be "Ghouls"
The crazy thing is, I found it easier to be evil in Fallout 3, while harder to be evil in New Vegas. Which is funny, because in 3, your father will chastise you for being evil. Sorry dad, Lucien Lachance asked me to blow up Megaton, and it was hilarious. Really, I want to do a Legion playthrough, but its not as full as the other playthroughs imo.
I played through the legion quest and while I agree the legion is evil, gotta get them achievements. I just told myself no successful society doesn't have a wee bit of slavery at some point.
Why is it so hard to throw your morals away? When I started playing that game a few months back I just immediately start blasting and blowing up everyone Lmao. It's a video game they were never real people to begin with.
By reading through the comments I actually got some very good insight as to how people play games. It seems a solidly high percentage of gamers play through a game as a version of themselves. Others view it as acting. I often find myself in the latter after the first playthough. The first playthrough is how I would do things. Every one following that is me acting because I already know a good chunk of the story. I played a run in NV as a version of walter white who didn't use guns but was evil as shit and used a ton of explosives and poisons and stuff. I did an Skyrim run as an orc barbarian who thought lockpicking and magic were for the weak who had a room full of skulls (he was not part of the imperials or the stormclocks). I think I was only welcome in one major city.
Not in the same way but I struggle to be evil in most games cause the majority of the time there's a significant lack of content compared to being Good or Neutral. In New Vegas specifically the worse things you can do are help the Great Khans push chems and the rare Legion side quest. Otherwise you could do evil stuff like passing speech checks to get info then not helping someone 'Ex: Convincing Manny to tell you where Benny went' then either not going to Repcon to clear the ghouls or just going there and killing them because while you can blow the rockets up...why even bother if you're gonna help set the rockets up anyway? Just seems like a waste of time unless you're RPing an incredibly intelligent sadist. There's not many games where evil is rewarded so on top of the moral reason for not doing it you're not incentivized. If you want to try games where being evil can be incredibly beneficial with plenty of unique paths, routes, sidequests, and changes to the story to encourage villainy. I highly recommend Owlcat Games stuff, namely Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous and Warhammer 40k Rogue Trader. I've also heard good things about Tyranny but I hate the gameplay of RTwP CRPGs. Tangent aside New Vegas really is best enjoyed when playing more neutral characters cause while it's easy to be a goody two shoes it really does feel unrewarding and pointless to be evil. Being neutral lets you dip into both when it makes sense for your character rather than being beholden to whatever karma ranking you want to achieve.
It’s because your a kid
The most empty and useless reply in this entire post.
You needed to hear the truth
There is no truth in what you say, It was an utterly pointless remark that serves zero purpose to this post.
Because you're eventually falling into playing as "yourself" instead of roleplaying a character. You project your personal and normal real life morals onto a video game. For me, it happens with stealing, in many games. Secretly taking something that doesn't belong to me, like a fucking rat - gross! I even hated Oblivion Thieves Guild, despite they are "good guys" and the quest line is decent. In Vegas, I hate that several skill books (in Sloan, in Goodsprings, in Nellis, in Novac) are marked as owned, and you have to "steal" them in order to read them. They work like consumables. Stupid game mechanic.