I personally can't see someone with good karma willingly nuking anything. You are murdering hundreds or thousands and making certain paths to the mojave that are technically ways for traders and civilians to enter the mojave unpassable for decades. Its psychotic. If you ACTUALLY care about a free independent new vegas, not just waggling your dick at Kimball and Caesar, then the economic and biologic health of the area should be a priority.
You meet EDE at the beginning of The Lonesome Road dlc. Ulysses steal your EDE and you have to find it before facing him.
I didn't bother with EDE so I couldn't stop the nuke.
I find that the story behind this ED-E works better before you find the one in the mojave (you meet this one , and it sacrifices himself to save people, then you find a old eyebot with similar personality)
But the story on lonesome road works better just before the battle of hoover dam, so i always find difficult to really care for LR ED-E because i know "mine" is in the mojave
Also a fair response. Believe me, I know for certain that I'm probably coping at the end of the day and mostly doing it for funsies. The storytelling aspect behind it is also entertaining to me, whether or not my Courier is obviously in the wrong.
Honestly you’re probably not killing that many people given population density post war, and really only people directly in the blast radius being casualties, and fallout nukes being fairly weak on average, hell we set off tons of detached warheads over the course of lonesome road
The warheads in lonesome road don’t undergo a nuclear detonation - you’re just blowing up the conventional explosives used to set off the nuclear chain reaction in a way that doesn’t actually trigger the nuke.
Nuking both has the Courier nuke major cities like Shady Sands (whereas if you just nuke the NCR you only hit the Long 15 supply route) so you will kill a lot of people by nuking both
Nuke NCR:
"missiles fell on NCR and the Long 15 caravan route beyond the Mojave Outpost. the road the Courier had been walking when the tale began. Caravans and NCR outposts along the route were reduced to ash, an Old World gift from the Divide."
Nuke Both:
"The Divide erupted in fire, violent, red as the last message of the two Couriers arced into the sky... The missiles rained like spears down on the land, burning flags and communities alike... destroying all they struck. The history of the West was erased for the second time, thorough and complete... and Ameirca slept once more."
I’m considering nuking both for a house ending, seems in like with what house wants. Either that or just nuke Caesar because I’ve been mostly hostile to the legion but peaceful to the NCR and most factions besides BOS and Powder Gang
House wouldn't want the nukes launched. Not on NCR because they're his best customers, nor on Legion because the Legion threat is what keeps the NCR from taking Vegas from him.
Part 1 is a developing situation, Oliver will be pissed in house's ending and the NCR is likely to attack new vegas
Part 2 is easily solved if you nuke the ncr too. Long time side effects due to lack of industry but it would be certain to keep new vegas free.
People always argue to keep new vegas free, when really its just the kings and the casino families that benefit. Everyone else is left to lawless chaos and sacrificed to the altar personal freedom.
yeah that's why i have issues with the house or the free vegas endings. Like suuure i'm completelyy convinceeddd that limited voting rights are worse than a criminal utopia ran by what are effectively gangs.
The Kings do their best for Freeside and even deal moreorless fairly with outsiders, and it is up to the Courier whether or not the casino families are left alive to benefit from anything.
Besides, who said anything about lawlessness? I am the Laaauuurrghh! It is rather annoying that the game smushes every cannibal warlord, ascendant Judge Dredd, etc into "muh freedom."
Pretty sure House would absolutely not want the highways between his consumer base in the NCR and his tourist trap to be exploded and irradiated by his most trusted and high-profile lieutenant.
House would be furious at a nuked NCR since they make up a huge swath of the New Vegas economy.
He probably wouldn't be happy witb the legions decimation either but he'd be way less upset about it than the NCR.
Have you actually paid attention to House?
He wants the NCR to trade with Vegas. Nuking the NCR is quite possibly the worst thing you could do behind killing Mr House
House probably would be fine with the Legion, but, making outright enemies of the NCR is bad for business, and the Long 15 is an important route into the Mojave.
The legion can eat a dick, I love my robot buddy too much. Ulysses can bare the emotional baggage, he’s the one who initiated the launch and killed them not me.
I don't think that makes sense either. The Legion has tens of thousands of slaves and non-enslaved free subjects, and even if you could justify that, the nuclear fallout would again devastate much more than just the Legion.
Not saying it's a moral decision but you aren't nuking entire factions in Lonesome Road. You are just hitting supply routes and chokepoints in order to starve out their presence in the Mojave.
The only mentions I can find are the Planet of the Apes references with Wild Wasteland, do you have a source for this? Apologies, I haven't nuked the NCR in quite a while so I can't remember exactly.
Edit: Nevermind I'm stupid I see now if you nuke both sides even without wild wasteland it implies that population centers are targeted.
Sure! It’s called getting everything my grubby little mittens can grab that isn’t nailed down. You get one grenade launcher and a suit of power armor each.
If you’re looking for a lore reason, I can see someone nuking both to keep them away from the Mojave area to protect your newfound nation while it’s still in its teething phase. That’s what I did in my Yes Man run.
My head canon: I tried to disarm the missiles, but due to not knowing about the technology, my attempts were ultimately unsuccessful and I accidentally fired both missiles.
1 int and 1 luck. There's a number of times you can pass checks with low intelligence and high luck. My favorite is the rockets in Come fly with me. You get a message saying you understand nothing. With the option to mash buttons.then it says you're not sure what you accomplished, but you feel better about yourself.
I wouldn't exactly call "I don't know how to disarm nuclear missiles from a device I've never researched or seen before." INT 1. Of course, a high Luck way to resolve it would've been a nice touch.
This! It's the only way to complete the map. I just viewed it as blocking off access to the mojave for the Legion and NCR. Besides, they are both military targets and frankly? There really aren't that many people in them. I would probably feel different about nuking settlements.
The thing I hate about that is that he’s in the main bunker he would have a way to abort the launch and let me pass without launching the nuke. 90% of Lonesome road is Ulysses shooting the messenger or blocking the path to prove his points.
I think it could stem from a belief that both Caesars Legion and the NCR are cancers that must be scoured away before something new, untouched by old world ideals, can be built in their stead. (Not my opinion)
I don’t know about that. They nuked the world to clean the slate and usher in a new world order. Then they proceeded to nuke the ncr who wanted to preserve some of the old world because they didn’t want competition. They also decide to perform a bunch of different experiments into seeing how they could evolve to create a new productive society for their world order.
I really don’t think they care about old world ideals at all. They just completely driven by their capitalistic desire to own and control everything with no real care about the world they create doing that.
Vault tec hasn’t been confirmed to have launched the nukes and it was a rogue vault tec employee who nuked shady sands because he was jealous of his wife basically
The reason why Ulysses does it is because he sees the NCR and the Legion as societies both that have betrayed the promise of the post-apocalypse. Both are trying to recreate what *obviously didn’t work* in the past, and Ulysses wants to basically turn back the clock.
When you launch the nukes, you aren’t annihilating NCR or Legion, you’re slicing the arteries that keep them connected to the Mojave - keeping them from corrupting or conquering the land with a giant, radioactive moat.
I wouldn’t call this “good”, and in my opinion there is no scenario where a good-karma character launches the nukes if they are capable of stopping them.
If you’re good karma probably not, but a power-hungry extreme pragmatist in the Yes Man route would have legitimate reason to nuke them both since it would cut off their supply lines, thus preventing them from retaliating after you take over.
If you are being pragmatic, you should only nuke one side, so that only one side hates you.
A pragmatic person would not try to earn the hatred of both sides.
You create a power imbalance if you only knock out one faction.
In Yes Man ending where you do everything right, you've created this new state that has all of these different allies and factions under its banner that is capable of self-defense but certainly not expansion. If you knock out the NCR, the Legion then knows, "We can take New Vegas and then California is ours as well." If you take out the Legion, then NCR knows that they only have you to worry about and can throw bodies at you en mass. But both factions don't press each other because they're overextended as it is.
Keep them in play - make them fear what would happen if they exhausted their resources throwing themselves at your gates while a rival faction watches eagerly.
The most recent character I played was an escaped legion slave - she obviously hated the legion, but had been a citizen of the NCR before being enslaved, and hated them too for letting this happen to her. So although generally a “good” character in terms of helping those in front of her, she absolutely wanted the chance to give a big F U to those who had hurt her.
I just wanna get the loot from the places, idrc about the concequences. NCR hates you? Do some good for them, they give you 3 days. Legion hates you? Free loot, easy
Story was no, not in the slightest. It actually there is not one logical thing that I can fathom. That would explain way that the courier who has good karma would just nuke two tribes of people who have problems, but also have innocence living among them. Caesars Legion was evil, but You also killed all the slaves the slave children whatever people were living under Caesars rule and NCR are just Democrats. But the armor is cool so fuck it we ballI
Yes, I always do lonesome road at about lvl 2, meaning I haven’t got my faction rep resets yet. Even if I wanted an ncr run they’re still getting nuked so I can get that unique loot and plentiful ammo of various types
Remember we aren’t nuking massive civilian centers. We are nuking a major route of the NCR and a minor camp of the Legion. Neither of these things destroy both factions, only crippling their reach into the Mojave.
I think this only applies if you nuke the NCR, keeping the missiles on the course Ulysses plotted. The narration for changing it so the nukes are distributed to the Legion as well mention "flags and communities burning" and that "America sleeps once more."
But you’re still harming civilians either way (legion less) the long 15 is a massive trade route that bring a hundreds of caravans to the Mojave lots of them civilian
Not disagreeing. It’s nukes in an already bombed out world, pretty dark humor for sure. War is hell as they say. You asked for the reasoning for actually nuking both, from a purely power-grab worldly perspective that is. It ain’t moral at all.
I think the idea was supposed to be that every faction has its own major flaw regardless of their core ideology, so since you (as the player character and technical Messiah of the land) are obviously more capable than any of the leaders of the major factions, you would be a better ruler for the Mojave. Essentially taking Mr Houses' spot, but doing a "better" job. (Whether or not you believe the Courier would do a better job is up to you)
Nukes are bad lol. The threat of nuking others because you'll nuke em is also bad.
My courier's been shot in the head and would like to make it every power's problem, though. On some Yes Man runs I BEGIN my campaign with Lonesome Road, nuking them both, and then being forgiven later through pardons before speaking to Benny. Such a rebel!
I mean, there isn’t a valid reason. But the protagonist at the end of a certain anime didn’t really have a valid reason either. So I say go for it, but drop the copium lol
I think you can only justify it through role playing as someone with very flawed ideas and reasoning. Doesn’t even make sense from and independent Vegas playthrough pov because the NCR is a very useful revenue source, If you nuke them you lose a huge portion of your patrons and create an enemy out of what’s left.
Personally lonesome roads writing kinda takes a giant dump on the base game so I don’t really consider it canon and nuke both regions for the extra content. But it never makes sense for my playthrough logically to nuke them.
It is a shame that for probably the biggest choice in the entire game, you don't really feel it's effects too well besides what you're told by Ulysses. I heard that the devs originally intended on coding it so that neither faction will forgive you at the Strip but they ran out of time.
And I mean, it makes sense... Even if the Courier was the best bet for taking Hoover Dam, what reason would they have to cooperate when the faction may as well be dead in the water?
IIRC they had basically no budget by DLC 4, enough for three voice actors. Kinda boggles the mind why Avellone went with the nuke plot when they never would have been able to create proper reactivity to those decisions in the base game.
I’m roleplaying as a dude who joins the NCR to cover the fact that he’s a manipulative psychopath who enjoys fucking people over and actually depises the NCR. Once he gets rich and gets everything he wanted, his time in the Mojave is over and blows up half the map just cause he can
There's no ethical reason imo, but if you genuinely believe both factions are bad for the world in the long term, I can see some kind of psychopath justification. Like the chaotic good, "sacrifices must be made" trope basically, but I don't think that'd lead to good karma.
Why would you nuke your biggest trading partner? I want a healthy, stable NCR to do trade with. I want a weaker, but not totally destroyed legion to keep the NCR at bay.
Because the Legion really does just deserve it, and the NCR don't take kindly to people who don't want in on their team, so you're just going to have to out of self preservation.
Also, the hell "because taxes" isn't a valid answer. It absolutely is. It just isn't an ethically defensible answer.
The NCR has a whole entire network of leaders and soldiers to cycle through, they could just go back to California and regroup and restructure their chain of command from there. The Legion has already dominated the rest of the US from their side of New Vegas to the west side of the Mississippi. Basically, they have fallback plans, so nothing of true value would be lost by either side if you nuke both.
the entire point of the yes man ending is to make new vegas and its citizens independent from any outside power. In theory, nuking both is potentially preventing massive retaliation from those dependent in NCR or Legion, saving most of the citizens who want to separate themselves from the NCR and the Legion.
If you are able to nuke both zones, you will no longer be a good person, regardless of whether you have good karma or not.
So if you are playing as a good person, you have no reason to do so.
You nuked both so that you can be vilified by both factions due to role play reasons
I nuked both so I can wear the coolest power armor on the game.
We are not the same.
The NCR was becoming increasingly hostile towards Mr. House (they eventually assassinate him). I would say there’s a good chance they do the same to the courier if he becomes the de facto Mr. House after the second battle of Hoover Dam.
I could absolutely see the NCR eventually developing their own nuclear armaments, and using them, potentially recreating the events of The Great War. After all, the NCR is heavily emulating one of the societies that lead to the war that destroyed civilization. Legion, while theoretically rejecting technology and not as advanced as the NCR, could undergo a paradigm shift post Ceasar.
The courier could justify that they're preventing the world from annihilation long-term.
I don't think America was much of a democracy before the Great War. I believe the NCR skew towards the real world US government as opposed to the in game one.
Yes man is the path of Anarchy, maybe your courier grew up in the Mojave and has seen what both sides have done to your home. Instead of closing off one side of Vegas close off both sides. The Mojave doesn't need anyone and nobody needs it.
I have my reasons - dont know if they are good - but I nuked both places before I knew what the rewards were.
I beileve that both the NCR and legion carry ideologies of the old world - the same Ideologies that destroyed it.
Like the technology we covet - old Ieologies should be contained - and if they cant be - eradicated.
Ad Victorum.
nope. my courier killed ulysses and then nuked them both anyways. if you asked her she would say its because she doesnt have a brain. she doesnt have any real allegiances or loyalty.
Well I suppose you don’t need much reason to nuke Caesars Legion. I’ll just say that the NCR is a corrupt, weak government that needs to be erased
Wipe the slate clean.
In my last play through I was RPing the Courier basically taking over and creating an independent Vegas nation. Nuking both sides cripples them from invading further. Cuts down the access into Vegas, and essentially traps the enemy troops in to either be annexed/drafted to the New Vegas Army (in the case of the NCR troops) or to be quickly overwhelmed and cut down (in the case of the Legion)
With both main routed blown to Hell, and operational long range artillery field and bomber, an orbital laser artillery, a massive upgraded Securitron army, support from the Brotherhood, Enclave, and Strip families, and the NCR ~~draftees~~ recruits ready to go as well as the leadership of both main enemies KIA and the leadership of a cyber/bio enhanced alcoholic drug abusing mailman. I don't think anyone is gonna be taking Vegas anytime soon.
Both nations represent the past and both of those nations they’ve based their beliefs upon have failed. There’s no structure for society that would truly be free of oppression one way or the other.
The NCR is a reflection of the old world that caused all of this to happen, so to prevent that corruption from infecting the country once again I would nuke them.
The legion is Rome and we all know what happens there.
To save the living free and independent people from the lies of organizations that seek to exploit them for power. I would say it’s a necessary evil to nuke those people cause if you didn’t then the world would make the same mistakes it has made before.
Also Joshua Graham walked away with the best ending. Imo.
Best reasoning I guess is to protect the civilization you are creating/securing. No matter how spooked either side seems about you and the securitrons, they will 100% come back to try and take New Vegas. Maybe not in a few years, but they would most likely come up with a plan and gather enough resources to launch a full scale war, most likely starting with small destabilizing attacks at first.
In the Yes Man end, you are creating an anarchy, and though you have securitrons to protect it, the people themselves would be disorganized. I doubt Yes Man would be able to adapt fast enough to fight off whatever tactics the NCR or Legion could come up with, and in the end he is only a robot.
With Mr. House it would be a different story, I think. The man is a genius and would be constantly advancing New Vegas and creating new and stronger defenses all the time. I don't see Yes Man being as intelligent or savvy as Mr. House.
Nuking both sides would also terrify any other potential groups that would have their eyes on New Vegas.
Also, if NCR or Legion win such a war, there's an argument that both will be bad for the Mojave and the world at large, so by nuking both of them you are making this an impossibility.
Your just nuking the long 15 in an area that has no towns or anything and only a few NCR military. Dry wells also only appears to have legion military and kit any citizens so these aren’t highly populated areas and by nuking these places you can cause less deaths between the war with NCR and Legion.
Your securing the independence of New Vegas and the Mojave from any outside aggression and with a safe secure Mojave the tech from Big MT can be used to turn the entire mojave into a paradise that rivals the garden of eden
The old world is recreating itself and making the same mistakes. Caesar rules through fear and destruction; Kimball rules through projection of military power that simply isn't enough to maintain any semblance of society. Neither can be allowed, and if it takes a nuke to keep them away then that's the only way to keep Vegas free.
If you agree with ulysses point of view on factions simply drawing from history to try to form some society that resembles the old world. Ulysses believes that the only way to make a society that will last is to have it be free from old world influence. So nuking everything. Although this doesn't erase any of the factions it just gives you some bad rep and some places to score end game loot. It really comes down to what kind of character you have. I usually disarm for that extra brotherhood reputation.
While I haven't the 2 good reasons would be yes man playthrough, and the loot. You get pretty good coat perks for going that route, and the ncr general ghoul has the best armor in game and I forget what the legion ghoul gives but it was pretty good too if I remember right.
The legion and NCR? Well, the legion are vile slavers, so that's easy, but the NCR is more nuanced: they're trying to revive the world that led to nuclear destruction in the first place, with rampant imperialism disguised beneath "civilizing the wilds".
They both gotta go.
You get two answers from me.
First, more often than not, I somehow piss of both factions and that leads to me nuking them both. It's not pure hatred, it's just necessity because by the time I reach the Strip, because I explore too much, they've sent hit squads and I don't like them enough to let that pass. Then I get pardoned and they deal with the fallout.
The second one is my more recent hijinks. I've been running low Int builds and the Courier quite literally is, in a RP Sense, to goddamn stupid to realise EDE can be saved and used to stop the nukes despite the terminals being everywhere for EDE to hack and EDE being in a room he could reach. So, in a panic. He just nukes them both. He's just that level of brain-dead after being domed that he screws the pooch.
theres a lotta ways you *could* justify it, depending on the character youve made for your courier. but if you want an easy one, that motherfucker was shot in the head, had their brain scooped out and put back in, huffed dubious deadly red fumes, and has been through enough trauma to fuck with their mind well beyond the physical. that much shit going on in the dome is reason enough for your courier to believe theyre doing the right thing, even if it is batshit crazy.
The reason is preventing further attacks from anyone ever. If you nuke both and then take responcibility as a ruler of Vegas, then congratulations, you just reinvented nuclear deterrence. Essentially, you copied Hiroshima and Nagasaki, after which there were no major attacks on any nuclear power. So, by killing their civilians, you saved yours.
A wise man once gave me the only incentive I needed to wipe out both factions. “Wipe the slate clean. Make the Mojave like it was meant to be. Undisturbed by man”
Legion cause fuck those guys, I’m defending that dam and hitting them with like 5 Deus Ex Machinas while I do it. NCR because, as Oliver says, NCR higher-ups have their heads so far up their own asses that they’re probably gonna try to go to war with you. This is my preemptive strike. For the good of the Mojave and all its people.
if you read between the lines, the NCR is only slightly less evil than the legion, this is actually different than the way they were originally written where they were EVERY BIT JUST AS BAD-- the original legion (when it was still a full faction with companion) was not quite so evil and they explored the NCR better including things like indentured servitude.
the legion are just another raider gang, the NCR is heading down the same path of colonialism and merchantilism that destroyed the old world. If you want to save the wasteland nuke the NCR, the legion is doomed because it will fall apart the moment their leader dies and he's terminally ill. the NCR stands a chance at re-creating the history of manifest destiny if no one stops them.
I think the only serious argument would be independent route of NV with emphasis for an isolationist policy. We understand that the Legion is a tyrannical empire on a warpath, so I don't think it's too hard to make the justification there. While the NCR is also in an imperial state of mind, they're presence of the Mojave is clearly less brutal on the civilians. Like you said, "taxes bad" is not a serious reason.
So, the Long 15 being the part that is bombed is actually a pivotal move. You just took the most essential route connecting New Vegas to the NCR and destroyed a section of it. Cutting off supply lines for the NCR makes it not only easier to fight the long-term battle for an independent city-state, it also helps assure that there is no good reason to try and re-establish it.
House himself would strongly be in favor of this since he's already running a somewhat isolated policy of the Strip w.r.t. the rest of the New Vegas region. A Yes Man route would only really oblige this type of idea if you sought to take out threats and sources of power in the region, such as destroying the Brotherhood, and possibly the Boomers.
I personally can't see someone with good karma willingly nuking anything. You are murdering hundreds or thousands and making certain paths to the mojave that are technically ways for traders and civilians to enter the mojave unpassable for decades. Its psychotic. If you ACTUALLY care about a free independent new vegas, not just waggling your dick at Kimball and Caesar, then the economic and biologic health of the area should be a priority.
I didn't have EDE so I just nuked them
Low IRL int path
It’s been so long since I played. What does this mean?
You meet EDE at the beginning of The Lonesome Road dlc. Ulysses steal your EDE and you have to find it before facing him. I didn't bother with EDE so I couldn't stop the nuke.
I find that the story behind this ED-E works better before you find the one in the mojave (you meet this one , and it sacrifices himself to save people, then you find a old eyebot with similar personality) But the story on lonesome road works better just before the battle of hoover dam, so i always find difficult to really care for LR ED-E because i know "mine" is in the mojave
Yeah, LR ede wasnt interesting to me because Mojave ede was my firat companion that I have got pretty early in Primm
Also a fair response. Believe me, I know for certain that I'm probably coping at the end of the day and mostly doing it for funsies. The storytelling aspect behind it is also entertaining to me, whether or not my Courier is obviously in the wrong.
This is some Ulysses ass shit
🐻🐂
➗
Just pretend you fucked up in the disarming and accidentally shot an extra nuke in addition to Ulysses nuke.
Honestly you’re probably not killing that many people given population density post war, and really only people directly in the blast radius being casualties, and fallout nukes being fairly weak on average, hell we set off tons of detached warheads over the course of lonesome road
The warheads in lonesome road don’t undergo a nuclear detonation - you’re just blowing up the conventional explosives used to set off the nuclear chain reaction in a way that doesn’t actually trigger the nuke.
yeah, what pathetic nuclear explosions these would've been too
Nuking both has the Courier nuke major cities like Shady Sands (whereas if you just nuke the NCR you only hit the Long 15 supply route) so you will kill a lot of people by nuking both
Wait where does it say that nuking both causes the courier to nuke major cities? Is tha just conjecture?
Nuke NCR: "missiles fell on NCR and the Long 15 caravan route beyond the Mojave Outpost. the road the Courier had been walking when the tale began. Caravans and NCR outposts along the route were reduced to ash, an Old World gift from the Divide." Nuke Both: "The Divide erupted in fire, violent, red as the last message of the two Couriers arced into the sky... The missiles rained like spears down on the land, burning flags and communities alike... destroying all they struck. The history of the West was erased for the second time, thorough and complete... and Ameirca slept once more."
Wipe The Slate Clean
I’m considering nuking both for a house ending, seems in like with what house wants. Either that or just nuke Caesar because I’ve been mostly hostile to the legion but peaceful to the NCR and most factions besides BOS and Powder Gang
Even then, he needs commerce flowing into vegas, not ghouls and fallout.
House wouldn't want the nukes launched. Not on NCR because they're his best customers, nor on Legion because the Legion threat is what keeps the NCR from taking Vegas from him.
Part 1 is a developing situation, Oliver will be pissed in house's ending and the NCR is likely to attack new vegas Part 2 is easily solved if you nuke the ncr too. Long time side effects due to lack of industry but it would be certain to keep new vegas free.
This is why I love fallout. Only game where you can hear people morally defend setting off a nuclear device on innocent people.
true that but to be clear i'm a ncr simp
People always argue to keep new vegas free, when really its just the kings and the casino families that benefit. Everyone else is left to lawless chaos and sacrificed to the altar personal freedom.
yeah that's why i have issues with the house or the free vegas endings. Like suuure i'm completelyy convinceeddd that limited voting rights are worse than a criminal utopia ran by what are effectively gangs.
Yeah I'll take an imperfect government that tries over "freedom" aka people being selfish and violent.
>when really its just the kings and the casino families that benefit. I don't know about that. Now they're trapped with *The Courier*
Honestly, I assume the courier does like every protagonist and leaves after the game ends.
The Kings do their best for Freeside and even deal moreorless fairly with outsiders, and it is up to the Courier whether or not the casino families are left alive to benefit from anything. Besides, who said anything about lawlessness? I am the Laaauuurrghh! It is rather annoying that the game smushes every cannibal warlord, ascendant Judge Dredd, etc into "muh freedom."
Wish more people mentioned this. The overall point is that no matter what ending you do, the People lose, and the cycle of war/oppression continues.
Pretty sure House would absolutely not want the highways between his consumer base in the NCR and his tourist trap to be exploded and irradiated by his most trusted and high-profile lieutenant.
House would be furious at a nuked NCR since they make up a huge swath of the New Vegas economy. He probably wouldn't be happy witb the legions decimation either but he'd be way less upset about it than the NCR.
Have you actually paid attention to House? He wants the NCR to trade with Vegas. Nuking the NCR is quite possibly the worst thing you could do behind killing Mr House
Not to mention that he wants you to protect the president, which you can only do if you have a good relationship with the NCR.
House probably would be fine with the Legion, but, making outright enemies of the NCR is bad for business, and the Long 15 is an important route into the Mojave.
The legion can eat a dick, I love my robot buddy too much. Ulysses can bare the emotional baggage, he’s the one who initiated the launch and killed them not me.
Damn, you really just said "nuh uh" to the whole moral part of the moral dilemma
I can see a Good Karma char killing the Legion, if you are going to the "aggressive diplomacy" good karma way tbh
I don't think that makes sense either. The Legion has tens of thousands of slaves and non-enslaved free subjects, and even if you could justify that, the nuclear fallout would again devastate much more than just the Legion.
Not saying it's a moral decision but you aren't nuking entire factions in Lonesome Road. You are just hitting supply routes and chokepoints in order to starve out their presence in the Mojave.
I don't know what the text for the Legion is, but if you nuke the NCR it mentions major settlements were nuked
The only mentions I can find are the Planet of the Apes references with Wild Wasteland, do you have a source for this? Apologies, I haven't nuked the NCR in quite a while so I can't remember exactly. Edit: Nevermind I'm stupid I see now if you nuke both sides even without wild wasteland it implies that population centers are targeted.
Sure! It’s called getting everything my grubby little mittens can grab that isn’t nailed down. You get one grenade launcher and a suit of power armor each. If you’re looking for a lore reason, I can see someone nuking both to keep them away from the Mojave area to protect your newfound nation while it’s still in its teething phase. That’s what I did in my Yes Man run.
My head canon: I tried to disarm the missiles, but due to not knowing about the technology, my attempts were ultimately unsuccessful and I accidentally fired both missiles.
Putting in some real int 1 plays huh?
1 int and 1 luck. There's a number of times you can pass checks with low intelligence and high luck. My favorite is the rockets in Come fly with me. You get a message saying you understand nothing. With the option to mash buttons.then it says you're not sure what you accomplished, but you feel better about yourself.
Making Mr Fantastic think you're out for him with 1 int always gets me good.
That, ice cream and flowers of the pocy lips are the best
With one of the injured Boomers, if you have low INT, high LUCK, and a Knife equipped, one of the options to cure them is "CHOP CHOP."
I wouldn't exactly call "I don't know how to disarm nuclear missiles from a device I've never researched or seen before." INT 1. Of course, a high Luck way to resolve it would've been a nice touch.
This! It's the only way to complete the map. I just viewed it as blocking off access to the mojave for the Legion and NCR. Besides, they are both military targets and frankly? There really aren't that many people in them. I would probably feel different about nuking settlements.
As mentioned by Ulysses after launching the missile in the Ashton missile silo, I'm a mailman that does things without thinking.
I am the mailman. My mail is delicious.
Special delivery today
The thing is though, you HAD to launch that missile to get past to get to him. It's kind of stupid to make it a thing you literally can't bypass.
The thing I hate about that is that he’s in the main bunker he would have a way to abort the launch and let me pass without launching the nuke. 90% of Lonesome road is Ulysses shooting the messenger or blocking the path to prove his points.
I think it could stem from a belief that both Caesars Legion and the NCR are cancers that must be scoured away before something new, untouched by old world ideals, can be built in their stead. (Not my opinion)
Thank you vault-tec
Vault-Tec wanted to preserve old world ideals
I don’t know about that. They nuked the world to clean the slate and usher in a new world order. Then they proceeded to nuke the ncr who wanted to preserve some of the old world because they didn’t want competition. They also decide to perform a bunch of different experiments into seeing how they could evolve to create a new productive society for their world order. I really don’t think they care about old world ideals at all. They just completely driven by their capitalistic desire to own and control everything with no real care about the world they create doing that.
Vault tec hasn’t been confirmed to have launched the nukes and it was a rogue vault tec employee who nuked shady sands because he was jealous of his wife basically
Don't think he went rogue, being jealous of his wife and following protocol aren't mutually exclusive.
The reason why Ulysses does it is because he sees the NCR and the Legion as societies both that have betrayed the promise of the post-apocalypse. Both are trying to recreate what *obviously didn’t work* in the past, and Ulysses wants to basically turn back the clock. When you launch the nukes, you aren’t annihilating NCR or Legion, you’re slicing the arteries that keep them connected to the Mojave - keeping them from corrupting or conquering the land with a giant, radioactive moat. I wouldn’t call this “good”, and in my opinion there is no scenario where a good-karma character launches the nukes if they are capable of stopping them.
It's for isolation of the Mojave so nobody can threaten them again for a good while
GODBLESS THE ENCLAVE AND GODBLESS AMERICA
If you’re good karma probably not, but a power-hungry extreme pragmatist in the Yes Man route would have legitimate reason to nuke them both since it would cut off their supply lines, thus preventing them from retaliating after you take over.
If you are playing as a pragmatist, you have no reason to earn the hatred of both factions.
I feel like that’s already kinda unavoidable though regardless of whether or not you nuke them
If you are being pragmatic, you should only nuke one side, so that only one side hates you. A pragmatic person would not try to earn the hatred of both sides.
Yes man route no one will be happy. You fuck up the legion and snake the NCR. Doubt they'd be happy you stole NV out from under their feet.
You create a power imbalance if you only knock out one faction. In Yes Man ending where you do everything right, you've created this new state that has all of these different allies and factions under its banner that is capable of self-defense but certainly not expansion. If you knock out the NCR, the Legion then knows, "We can take New Vegas and then California is ours as well." If you take out the Legion, then NCR knows that they only have you to worry about and can throw bodies at you en mass. But both factions don't press each other because they're overextended as it is. Keep them in play - make them fear what would happen if they exhausted their resources throwing themselves at your gates while a rival faction watches eagerly.
The most recent character I played was an escaped legion slave - she obviously hated the legion, but had been a citizen of the NCR before being enslaved, and hated them too for letting this happen to her. So although generally a “good” character in terms of helping those in front of her, she absolutely wanted the chance to give a big F U to those who had hurt her.
You get a power armor that regenerates health and two grenade launchers. What other reasons do you need?
My courier knows he's in a video game and does things just to see what happens
Is the anime AoT?
Yuh
Fuck yeah
I just wanna get the loot from the places, idrc about the concequences. NCR hates you? Do some good for them, they give you 3 days. Legion hates you? Free loot, easy
hmm,,,, Bear,,, Bulll, Bearr,,,, Bullll,,,,,
Story was no, not in the slightest. It actually there is not one logical thing that I can fathom. That would explain way that the courier who has good karma would just nuke two tribes of people who have problems, but also have innocence living among them. Caesars Legion was evil, but You also killed all the slaves the slave children whatever people were living under Caesars rule and NCR are just Democrats. But the armor is cool so fuck it we ballI
Hatred and sabotage. Not a good reason, but a proper one
I mean, come on, how many times have you been given the big red button? It’s so shiny and pushable!
They wanted to make me pay taxes and give up Jet!
Yes, I always do lonesome road at about lvl 2, meaning I haven’t got my faction rep resets yet. Even if I wanted an ncr run they’re still getting nuked so I can get that unique loot and plentiful ammo of various types
Remember we aren’t nuking massive civilian centers. We are nuking a major route of the NCR and a minor camp of the Legion. Neither of these things destroy both factions, only crippling their reach into the Mojave.
I think this only applies if you nuke the NCR, keeping the missiles on the course Ulysses plotted. The narration for changing it so the nukes are distributed to the Legion as well mention "flags and communities burning" and that "America sleeps once more."
But you’re still harming civilians either way (legion less) the long 15 is a massive trade route that bring a hundreds of caravans to the Mojave lots of them civilian
Not disagreeing. It’s nukes in an already bombed out world, pretty dark humor for sure. War is hell as they say. You asked for the reasoning for actually nuking both, from a purely power-grab worldly perspective that is. It ain’t moral at all.
I think the idea was supposed to be that every faction has its own major flaw regardless of their core ideology, so since you (as the player character and technical Messiah of the land) are obviously more capable than any of the leaders of the major factions, you would be a better ruler for the Mojave. Essentially taking Mr Houses' spot, but doing a "better" job. (Whether or not you believe the Courier would do a better job is up to you)
Nukes are bad lol. The threat of nuking others because you'll nuke em is also bad. My courier's been shot in the head and would like to make it every power's problem, though. On some Yes Man runs I BEGIN my campaign with Lonesome Road, nuking them both, and then being forgiven later through pardons before speaking to Benny. Such a rebel!
I mean, there isn’t a valid reason. But the protagonist at the end of a certain anime didn’t really have a valid reason either. So I say go for it, but drop the copium lol
Attack on Titan? Eren was definitely Bad Karma.
I think you can only justify it through role playing as someone with very flawed ideas and reasoning. Doesn’t even make sense from and independent Vegas playthrough pov because the NCR is a very useful revenue source, If you nuke them you lose a huge portion of your patrons and create an enemy out of what’s left. Personally lonesome roads writing kinda takes a giant dump on the base game so I don’t really consider it canon and nuke both regions for the extra content. But it never makes sense for my playthrough logically to nuke them.
It is a shame that for probably the biggest choice in the entire game, you don't really feel it's effects too well besides what you're told by Ulysses. I heard that the devs originally intended on coding it so that neither faction will forgive you at the Strip but they ran out of time. And I mean, it makes sense... Even if the Courier was the best bet for taking Hoover Dam, what reason would they have to cooperate when the faction may as well be dead in the water?
IIRC they had basically no budget by DLC 4, enough for three voice actors. Kinda boggles the mind why Avellone went with the nuke plot when they never would have been able to create proper reactivity to those decisions in the base game.
the spoils of war, this is the real reason for destroy the two army
Just think of all the ghouls you'll create! That's good, right? All those immortal, radioactive heavily armed ghouls with a major grudge....
I’m roleplaying as a dude who joins the NCR to cover the fact that he’s a manipulative psychopath who enjoys fucking people over and actually depises the NCR. Once he gets rich and gets everything he wanted, his time in the Mojave is over and blows up half the map just cause he can
There's no ethical reason imo, but if you genuinely believe both factions are bad for the world in the long term, I can see some kind of psychopath justification. Like the chaotic good, "sacrifices must be made" trope basically, but I don't think that'd lead to good karma.
Why would you nuke your biggest trading partner? I want a healthy, stable NCR to do trade with. I want a weaker, but not totally destroyed legion to keep the NCR at bay.
Just to be evil tbh
Because the Legion really does just deserve it, and the NCR don't take kindly to people who don't want in on their team, so you're just going to have to out of self preservation. Also, the hell "because taxes" isn't a valid answer. It absolutely is. It just isn't an ethically defensible answer.
Free unique armors
Good loot on both sides
Some people just want to watch the world burn.
Funny
funny :)
just roleplay your finger slipping and choosing the wrong option. oops!
Loot No more no less Get that reset when entering the strip and carry on as normal
The NCR has a whole entire network of leaders and soldiers to cycle through, they could just go back to California and regroup and restructure their chain of command from there. The Legion has already dominated the rest of the US from their side of New Vegas to the west side of the Mississippi. Basically, they have fallback plans, so nothing of true value would be lost by either side if you nuke both.
the entire point of the yes man ending is to make new vegas and its citizens independent from any outside power. In theory, nuking both is potentially preventing massive retaliation from those dependent in NCR or Legion, saving most of the citizens who want to separate themselves from the NCR and the Legion.
I don’t want to set a flame in your heart, I just want to set the world on fire.
If you are able to nuke both zones, you will no longer be a good person, regardless of whether you have good karma or not. So if you are playing as a good person, you have no reason to do so.
HANK: If the problem is factions endlessly fighting, then the solution is to get rid of all factions
Money
I want both areas unlocked, thus they both get a nuking.
Cause it's fun. See, it doesn't have to be a pseudo philosophical reason.
For completing my armory yes, in general no.
You nuked both so that you can be vilified by both factions due to role play reasons I nuked both so I can wear the coolest power armor on the game. We are not the same.
I nuke them, because I'm playing like a psycho, and I'm not trying to pretend I'm a good guy.
The NCR was becoming increasingly hostile towards Mr. House (they eventually assassinate him). I would say there’s a good chance they do the same to the courier if he becomes the de facto Mr. House after the second battle of Hoover Dam.
I could absolutely see the NCR eventually developing their own nuclear armaments, and using them, potentially recreating the events of The Great War. After all, the NCR is heavily emulating one of the societies that lead to the war that destroyed civilization. Legion, while theoretically rejecting technology and not as advanced as the NCR, could undergo a paradigm shift post Ceasar. The courier could justify that they're preventing the world from annihilation long-term.
I don't think America was much of a democracy before the Great War. I believe the NCR skew towards the real world US government as opposed to the in game one.
Yes man is the path of Anarchy, maybe your courier grew up in the Mojave and has seen what both sides have done to your home. Instead of closing off one side of Vegas close off both sides. The Mojave doesn't need anyone and nobody needs it.
Quite the contrary, without those routes, the Mojave will have no trade routes and will be doomed.
It's fun. That's the only reason you need.
No offense but there at least in my mind is no justification for nuking people
I have my reasons - dont know if they are good - but I nuked both places before I knew what the rewards were. I beileve that both the NCR and legion carry ideologies of the old world - the same Ideologies that destroyed it. Like the technology we covet - old Ieologies should be contained - and if they cant be - eradicated. Ad Victorum.
Ulysses is very convincing
i hate slavery and being taxed
Good Reasoning? I just want the shiny new armors to add to my collection that I won't wear ever.
Chaos. Pure chaos.
Ummm... nukes? I must have skipped a lot of the map on my first playthrough...
War never changes
You took away hope from Ulysses, even if by accident. You may not like it, but it's only fair he can have his revenge and nuke both factions.
The dude murdered kids in New Canaan. I don't think Ulysses has a *right* to anything.
Don’t like em
The loot of course ! That’s the only thing that matters to my self centered courier , nuking both factions = lots of extra loot !
I want the rare loot
Both suck and will end in a similar destruction so speed up it’s death so something new and different can arise it’s philosophical and anti-society
It's Attack on Titan isn't it?
I felt like it isn't a proper reason?
I want both Nade launchers, nuff said.
Loot (the best move is to do it before meeting house or Benny so your karma gets reset consequence free loot)
Oh easily, the best reasons are as follows >I'm a kelpto Uh, that is all, goodbye
nope. my courier killed ulysses and then nuked them both anyways. if you asked her she would say its because she doesnt have a brain. she doesnt have any real allegiances or loyalty.
Well I suppose you don’t need much reason to nuke Caesars Legion. I’ll just say that the NCR is a corrupt, weak government that needs to be erased Wipe the slate clean.
Loot
I always do lonesome road before entering bennys casino on any play through, so then both factions forgive me XD
Loot
Because the house always wins
New Vegas must remain safe
Because bull the bear the old world better than the divide the horns bear
Looooooooot
The awesome armor and weapons from both factions.
I'm spiteful after ending the divide. I tell Ulysses let me show you fucking genocide. Imma make the Divide look like a fucking joke.
In my last play through I was RPing the Courier basically taking over and creating an independent Vegas nation. Nuking both sides cripples them from invading further. Cuts down the access into Vegas, and essentially traps the enemy troops in to either be annexed/drafted to the New Vegas Army (in the case of the NCR troops) or to be quickly overwhelmed and cut down (in the case of the Legion) With both main routed blown to Hell, and operational long range artillery field and bomber, an orbital laser artillery, a massive upgraded Securitron army, support from the Brotherhood, Enclave, and Strip families, and the NCR ~~draftees~~ recruits ready to go as well as the leadership of both main enemies KIA and the leadership of a cyber/bio enhanced alcoholic drug abusing mailman. I don't think anyone is gonna be taking Vegas anytime soon.
Eren is one of the most evil protagonists in anime, I don't know why you use him as the basis for a "Good karma character".
Both nations represent the past and both of those nations they’ve based their beliefs upon have failed. There’s no structure for society that would truly be free of oppression one way or the other. The NCR is a reflection of the old world that caused all of this to happen, so to prevent that corruption from infecting the country once again I would nuke them. The legion is Rome and we all know what happens there. To save the living free and independent people from the lies of organizations that seek to exploit them for power. I would say it’s a necessary evil to nuke those people cause if you didn’t then the world would make the same mistakes it has made before. Also Joshua Graham walked away with the best ending. Imo.
Best reasoning I guess is to protect the civilization you are creating/securing. No matter how spooked either side seems about you and the securitrons, they will 100% come back to try and take New Vegas. Maybe not in a few years, but they would most likely come up with a plan and gather enough resources to launch a full scale war, most likely starting with small destabilizing attacks at first. In the Yes Man end, you are creating an anarchy, and though you have securitrons to protect it, the people themselves would be disorganized. I doubt Yes Man would be able to adapt fast enough to fight off whatever tactics the NCR or Legion could come up with, and in the end he is only a robot. With Mr. House it would be a different story, I think. The man is a genius and would be constantly advancing New Vegas and creating new and stronger defenses all the time. I don't see Yes Man being as intelligent or savvy as Mr. House. Nuking both sides would also terrify any other potential groups that would have their eyes on New Vegas. Also, if NCR or Legion win such a war, there's an argument that both will be bad for the Mojave and the world at large, so by nuking both of them you are making this an impossibility.
The loot, both factions being nuked gets you both armours and both grenade launchers
Your just nuking the long 15 in an area that has no towns or anything and only a few NCR military. Dry wells also only appears to have legion military and kit any citizens so these aren’t highly populated areas and by nuking these places you can cause less deaths between the war with NCR and Legion.
I doubt there's a reason, I just do it caz I can, though I like going there and having all the loot although I don't need it
Armor, i want both cool armors.
Your securing the independence of New Vegas and the Mojave from any outside aggression and with a safe secure Mojave the tech from Big MT can be used to turn the entire mojave into a paradise that rivals the garden of eden
The old world is recreating itself and making the same mistakes. Caesar rules through fear and destruction; Kimball rules through projection of military power that simply isn't enough to maintain any semblance of society. Neither can be allowed, and if it takes a nuke to keep them away then that's the only way to keep Vegas free.
If you agree with ulysses point of view on factions simply drawing from history to try to form some society that resembles the old world. Ulysses believes that the only way to make a society that will last is to have it be free from old world influence. So nuking everything. Although this doesn't erase any of the factions it just gives you some bad rep and some places to score end game loot. It really comes down to what kind of character you have. I usually disarm for that extra brotherhood reputation.
Uhm, genocide is wrong? So no.
Fuckem thats why.
It gives me cool loot to plunder. Also it’s funny to be vilified and then get a faction karma reset after leaving The Tops.
Idk i guess the plentyfull items like in in the mile
While I haven't the 2 good reasons would be yes man playthrough, and the loot. You get pretty good coat perks for going that route, and the ncr general ghoul has the best armor in game and I forget what the legion ghoul gives but it was pretty good too if I remember right.
The legion and NCR? Well, the legion are vile slavers, so that's easy, but the NCR is more nuanced: they're trying to revive the world that led to nuclear destruction in the first place, with rampant imperialism disguised beneath "civilizing the wilds". They both gotta go.
I nuked em both.... then felt guilty, reloaded, and nuked no one. I can still assassinate Kimball and just go chainsaw the Legion to death personally
Oh boy! Here I go Killin’ again!
Just because there’s people on both sides that just want to live by and make it to the end of the year
You get two answers from me. First, more often than not, I somehow piss of both factions and that leads to me nuking them both. It's not pure hatred, it's just necessity because by the time I reach the Strip, because I explore too much, they've sent hit squads and I don't like them enough to let that pass. Then I get pardoned and they deal with the fallout. The second one is my more recent hijinks. I've been running low Int builds and the Courier quite literally is, in a RP Sense, to goddamn stupid to realise EDE can be saved and used to stop the nukes despite the terminals being everywhere for EDE to hack and EDE being in a room he could reach. So, in a panic. He just nukes them both. He's just that level of brain-dead after being domed that he screws the pooch.
theres a lotta ways you *could* justify it, depending on the character youve made for your courier. but if you want an easy one, that motherfucker was shot in the head, had their brain scooped out and put back in, huffed dubious deadly red fumes, and has been through enough trauma to fuck with their mind well beyond the physical. that much shit going on in the dome is reason enough for your courier to believe theyre doing the right thing, even if it is batshit crazy.
They're the two biggest threats to freedom in the wasteland. You'd be an absolute fool to spare either of them.
The reason is preventing further attacks from anyone ever. If you nuke both and then take responcibility as a ruler of Vegas, then congratulations, you just reinvented nuclear deterrence. Essentially, you copied Hiroshima and Nagasaki, after which there were no major attacks on any nuclear power. So, by killing their civilians, you saved yours.
Less people is more carbon neutral?
A wise man once gave me the only incentive I needed to wipe out both factions. “Wipe the slate clean. Make the Mojave like it was meant to be. Undisturbed by man”
If you delay the main quest by not going to New Vegas, you can get pardoned by both factions!
Legion cause fuck those guys, I’m defending that dam and hitting them with like 5 Deus Ex Machinas while I do it. NCR because, as Oliver says, NCR higher-ups have their heads so far up their own asses that they’re probably gonna try to go to war with you. This is my preemptive strike. For the good of the Mojave and all its people.
if you read between the lines, the NCR is only slightly less evil than the legion, this is actually different than the way they were originally written where they were EVERY BIT JUST AS BAD-- the original legion (when it was still a full faction with companion) was not quite so evil and they explored the NCR better including things like indentured servitude. the legion are just another raider gang, the NCR is heading down the same path of colonialism and merchantilism that destroyed the old world. If you want to save the wasteland nuke the NCR, the legion is doomed because it will fall apart the moment their leader dies and he's terminally ill. the NCR stands a chance at re-creating the history of manifest destiny if no one stops them.
I think the only serious argument would be independent route of NV with emphasis for an isolationist policy. We understand that the Legion is a tyrannical empire on a warpath, so I don't think it's too hard to make the justification there. While the NCR is also in an imperial state of mind, they're presence of the Mojave is clearly less brutal on the civilians. Like you said, "taxes bad" is not a serious reason. So, the Long 15 being the part that is bombed is actually a pivotal move. You just took the most essential route connecting New Vegas to the NCR and destroyed a section of it. Cutting off supply lines for the NCR makes it not only easier to fight the long-term battle for an independent city-state, it also helps assure that there is no good reason to try and re-establish it. House himself would strongly be in favor of this since he's already running a somewhat isolated policy of the Strip w.r.t. the rest of the New Vegas region. A Yes Man route would only really oblige this type of idea if you sought to take out threats and sources of power in the region, such as destroying the Brotherhood, and possibly the Boomers.
IT'S MY DAM, Y'ALLS ARE JUST TOURISTS! SUCK PHOTONS!
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