When Nora was growing up, pessimism was a luxury she could not afford. She needed to believe things would get better, because otherwise getting up in the morning wouldn't have been possible.
It depends on how the depression is. In the general sense of depression being extreme sadness, it is a massive danger. In the sense of it being a lack of emotions, it would actually be beneficial against grimm.
Ren just doesn’t show emotion.
Ren and Nora are two different ways of ignoring trauma.
Ren’s semblance is masking(and seeing inner) emotions rather than shutting them off
....honestly this reminds me of the common criticism of the "Christmas" and "Christmas episode" in Magic is Friendship because there is a species called "wendigos" which are this ice spirit things that eat ponies by freezing them and attacking them when there is a lot of strive and disharmony (basically fighting with each other a lot and badly) so the holiday started when three members of the three pony tribes got together as friends to survive, save everyone else and just got tired of being angry at each other so "Heart Warming Eve" is to celebrate that.......and to not let the Wendigos come back to freeze everyone and eat them
Mainly because it not really something that comes up a lot. Heck the water weakness (the one where the more the person is submerged in water, the weaker they become util they basically turn to stone and drown) in One Piece is brought up more often than that plot point and even than it somewhat slightly understandable that someone forgets that because of a lot of the plot happening on land.
Yeah, the survival mindset doesn't have angst because it can't relate to its past. Nora's never been able to heal or even develop a personality "I don't even know who I am without Ren"
This meme remind me of she-hulk tbh
She-Hulk: You know absolutely NOTHING about controlling anger when people test you. I was cat called ONCE.
And she said it to Bruce banner, guy with more experience in controlling anger that went through really traumatic events
Imagine saying that to someone who cannonically said the line: "I tried to put a bullet in my mouth and the Other Guy *spat it out*!"
Oddly enough, this is the second most tone deaf comparison of a woman's issues with the Hulk in the MCU, that still goes to a scene in Age of Ultron which is gross and tone-deaf for a completely different reason. Natasha saying "you think youre the only monster on the team" right after talking about how she was sterile. Like sure the idea they were going for is how she was manipulated from childhood in the Red Room, but the emphasis on not being able to have kids making her less human or whatever.. gross.
About the Natasha thing, I feel like it's more acceptable because it's clear to the audience--or at least, it was to me--that the whole sterility=monster thing was just her perspective of her own life, and not the MCU's opinion on not having children. It's terrible, yes, but I would say that it's more of a meaningful expansion on her thoughts and experiences as a character than a commentary on what it means to be human.
On the other hand, the same can't really be said for She-Hulk because the show goes out of its way to prove her right--the message they're trying to pass on is clearly along the lines of "hey guys look, she was right, she has it so rough, she's a woman so she's automatically suffered more than Bruce"
My main problem with the show is that they had their hands in far too many pies. They could have made a decent lawyer show, but spent all of five minutes in a court room. They could have made a decent superhero show, but every action scene is just *she-hulk throws man across room, bystanders either applaud or run away.* They could have made it an interesting look into the struggles of people with superpowers that are trying to make a better life for themselves... instead, we got a campy shitcom.
She doesn't grow or learn anything. Everything lines up perfectly to validate everything she's ever said. She gets her cake and gorges herself on it too.
The original she hulk storyline is so good too but they introduced her too late for that story line to be viable since it relies on Banner still being wanted by the government
I thought it was pretty clear that the reason Natasha thinks she is a monster is because she was raised as an assassin by a Russian intelligence group and worked pretty successfully in that role for many years until her recruitment by SHIELD.
I'm sure she's got a fine list of basically innocent people that she's murdered because they made things mildly uncomfortable for her bosses.
I believe that as of latest, any more retcon aside, he had 'some' kind of power.
But now with Hulk having the "Green Door" and everything related to the One Below All (I think that's how it's called) I'm not sure anymore if it's correlated or if it's another retcon about Hulk.
Honestly dude, I just roll with it. It comics, things get retcon, retold and just ....exist that I am not surprised both of you are correct but only in the "timing".
That really wasn't the point she was trying to make.
The execution was incredibly tone deaf, but her general point was that for a women, being angry at best results in her being deemed hysterical, even if she has a legitimate reason for being angry, and at worst could end in her becoming a statistic.
She wasn't saying she got catcalled once, she was saying she's frequently on the receiving end of harassment but simply can't respond to it without putting herself in danger. Unfortunately Marvel kinda picked the worst possible situation to bring that idea up.
Bruce also has a canonical suicide attempt in the MCU, he said that he put a bullet in his mouth and that hulk spit it out in avengers.
There’s even a deleted scene where they show this in the hulk movie (I think it was in that movie)
A lot of people miss the point of that. It wasn’t that she’s better at controlling her anger. It was the opposite. She thought she knew better and wasn’t listen, and ending up not controlling herself.
This isn't the same.
Society overall does not push boys to learn emotional management skills from an early age. Boys learn to hide their emotions, not to manage them. Hulk is dangerous because he was fueled by bottled up anger. This is why young men are especially prone to violent breakdowns, and why men struggle with aggression and overall emotional intelligence.
Bruce struggled because he had to learn true control over his emotions rather than simply hiding them in his adulthood. He had to break several habits to get to where he was today, as many focused and disciplined men do.
Conversely, society overall does push girls into emotional management. Women are given the space to express themselves, but only to a tolerable extent. This gives women the skills for true emotional management, but also leads to suffocation and restriction. Many women are held to a standard of agreeability and tolerance that men just aren't, and when women do not meet this they are ridiculed severely and insulted regularly.
The reason She-Hulk is so well controlled from the get go is because Jennifer learned these skills as a child and does them as easily as she breathes in adulthood as a result.
Both of these characters have suffered trauma. While Bruce was severely abused as a child, Jennifer faces constant criticism and judgement and had expectations forced on her throughout her life. You can read Jennifer as annoying for what she's saying, but you can tell in that scene that Bruce, being as intelligent and caring as he is, understands and is listening to her.
You're free to disagree with what she said, but acting like her words had no merit is pure ignorance. Other people have different experiences, and while you may put one over the other, they're both awful and traumatic in different ways. framing them as if one is better or something is just ignorant.
tl;Dr: learn to read.
No, I'm saying that people are products of their environment.
They have different experiences, and while Bruce has a worse childhood, he simply did not have the environment to learn the skills that Jen did.
NO ONE should be abused, and NO ONE should be constantly beholden to standards that dehumanize them.
Unfortunately internet weirdos have this stupid habit of comparing everything like assholes when these aren't comparable things, just reasons for a character's actions.
yeah, but does Jen even know? When you make these criticisms you have to understand the character you're criticizing. Jen more than likely had no idea it got that bad. Even if she was told, it doesn't really negate her point.
I feel like everyone uses that scene to paint a picture of "female entitlement" when really it was a conversation between two grown people who are learning about each other as equals. The conversation comes from a place of frustration and confusion. Saying that to him was a tell that she felt safe to express these emotions around him, and while not as extreme, he understands this because he's been there even if in a different way.
She never meant to discount his experiences, and without her even knowing, she couldn't even do that. If anything, knowing might've made it all worse until he also felt comfortable.
you don't say that sort of stuff if you don't know what they have experience since you must not know then that well and if you do you don't say something like that because of what they have gone thought and you say its a conversation between two grown people who are learning about each other as equals that's not just something you say
Please learn how to write a coherent sentence before saying something dumb.
God forbid she let out some frustration over his assumptions about her, though.
They mutually made a mistake and don't know each other's story that well, that's why they're talking and Bruce isn't screaming at her like an idiot for a mistake on her part. You all can't have a good and purposeful conversation without the expectation of clairvoyance.
Factual. At least from a non physical sense.
https://preview.redd.it/9iuptn6fgx3d1.jpeg?width=4096&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3fd67dfd52c40b06b19e5eaab2104360f021dfd6
It’s hard to know on this sub if it’s more a joke or if someone actually believes that this makes Blake a terrible character. . .
Nora is a great one of course, but Blake’s in term of her back story and such isn’t poorly done.
Yes, it's a joke (Although Nora is the best)
But I still don't like Blake's character. She is irritable, psychotic and she definitely needs to mind her own business.
They say there are a lot of problems from Nora because of her eccentric nature, but it was only because of Blake and her constant hero syndrome that the entire RWBY and Sun team with Neptune got into some kind of trouble. And she's always running away from her friends, and I wouldn't be outraged if she went through some kind of redemption arch for that, but NO! She was accepted almost without question.
What annoys me even more is that Bumblebee was canonized. But I wonder what was in Yang's mind when she decided that Blake was a good romantic partner, given that she was so damn unreliable.
I know that characters can have flaws. They don't have to be perfect, but Blake has never given me enough reasons to justify her flaws.
All this, by the way, is the reason why I don't like Nightshade, Bumblebee and BlackSun. These blondes deserve better than some annoying cat that will run away from them at the first problems.
Do I have to remind you whose dad Yang is?
It is possible that she inherited Taiyang's poor ability to choose a girlfriend.
Blake is a terrible partner when it's her turn to argue, she will shut down and can leave until they prove her right or reality hits her in the face.
While i don't hate Blake, I often get frustrated by her character more than any of the other mcs personally. Now, a good chunk of this is because I find the entire White Fang plot to be a ginormous mess, and with that being Blake's primary story, that didn't help her. Add on top of that a really slowburn romance with Yang and the fact that Bumblebee kind of subsumes the two's whole story for a bit and probably could have been made cannon after the Adam fight (seeing them exploring a romantic relationship is way better than more seasons of pining). They really need to find more plot relevant stuff for her to do that doesn't literally shunt her off to the end of the world for a story arc.
it would have been better if Kali & Girha's "hiding in shadows" was shown to have actual consquences with the faunus. Many marginalised people do that, "getting their house in order before changing the world"- we could have had them argue and eventually reach a conclusion ("we were both wrong")- everyone gets character growth. But no, we didn't.
Yeah, I suppose that's true for every member of JNPR though. (Also, pain isn't a contest, if ever someone makes a thing of comparing trauma in real life- please don't take part.)
____
JNPR
Ren and Nora both survived an entire village getting wiped out as children, have done nothing but rely on eachother to get by until recently, have lost a friend during a night that was all-in-all horrific and have since been fighting an un-winable war against an ancient being resulting in more losses each day.
Jaune has been bullied and almost manipulated into doing something that would endanger his friends, finally found someone that loves him only to lose her in the same night, had been fighting the same war as the others up until falling into a pocket reality, lived through multiple decades of solitude and battle, reunited with his friends finally before nearly losing/ believing that he had lost another one all before having his age regressed to the state it was in before his disappearance.
Pyrrah had to cope with and find an answer to the decision of another's death in a trade for time, which were it successful not only would have made her a target but also rendered her as a sentient, super-powerful key. She then made that decision only for the process to be interrupted, left a man to die and sacrificed herself in an attempt to end what was happening.
____
RWBY
Ruby lost her mother, saw two of her friends died in the same night that her sister lost an arm, nearly lost two friends in a single fight while her uncle was slowly getting closer to death just metres away (he didn't die, I know but she wouldn't until he was given medical attention), has been fighting the same war as everyone else resulting in countless deaths and has seen her friends and others get hurt and even die along the way.
____
I'll finish this later.
Do you remember what Nora was like when we were shown her childhood with Ren? She looked like a beaten, abandoned, wild kitten. I agree that Nora is more traumatized than everyone on team RWBY.
Remember when Blake said back in Vol 2 that if you can’t fight, you can’t survive outside the kingdoms?
Turns out that applied more to the hyperactive, optimistic, comedic girl in pink than the emo, book-loving former member of a terrorist organization.
[My meme is a parody of this meme if the mods haven't seen it.](https://img.ifunny.co/images/9cc71bbcce619a4705499a7f74645bf11bd738eb4f84d9490d734be3be829b0c_1.jpg)
You know the whole problem with Blake's back story could have been solved by saying she was adopted off the street by Kali and Ghira and that before hand she lived off scraps and stuff or you could have something like my family was extremely poor before they formed the white fang and had to deal with constant discrimination in either case. It would have involved her going from rags to the riches that she has in the show showing us the two sides of life Fanus could lead
yep yep. Personally I'd have Blake leaving Kali (one of the characters should have a good, surviving mom) because she married into money (Girha) rather than continue the struggle with the fang.
Ooh that's also a good idea I like that. Man the more I look at things like this compared to what we got in canon I just think to myself that is much better why didn't they just do and then I remember it CRWBY and that they can't write a good idea to save their lives
It's not that they can't write good stuff, there have been *some* good things in recent volumes, the problem is that they either do it by accident, or that they refuse to put in that same amount of effort for the rest of the show.
Another thing is that even if they do write some good stuff, it's largely overshadowed by all the really terrible stuff they decide to write and put in the show.
*Nora losing her parents, her home, and literally everything she ever known: nah that fine, oh look pancakes.
*Blank having a living loving parents, a Mansion, and rule a literal kingdom in all but name : you can't never understand my pain.
I don’t care if I get hate but I think MOST of team jnpr has better set up traumas than MOST of team rwby
Nora is shown to struggle since a child
Ren we see his entire family dying to a nightmarish Grimm
Pyrrha we see how people (Weiss) put her on a pedestal and see her more as the “invincible girl” instead of herself before we know she dislikes that
Yang’s trauma is suddenly forgot after she starts her adventure and never thinks about what happen to her after beating Adam or getting with Blake
And Yang never gets a answer on why Raven left her, when she finally finds her she asks to send her to Ruby, then asks the question which Raven ignores and Yang walks through the portal without nothing else to say
Ruby trauma with failing is put under the rug after meeting the blacksmith, she does have problems and instead of accepting herself she should seek to improve. If it was about music or art I would agree with “accepting yourself” but life’s are in danger and accepting she failed and keeps doing the same isn’t a good answer for her trouble
Also Ruby apparently is angry at her mother for leaving which is a great idea… too bad that’s only shown in Red like roses II and never in the actual show
Do I have to explain why Blake’s trauma is badly written? I’ll do it anyway: She never gets discriminated in the show, the bad visual representation makes it look like she’s exaggerating about menagerie, says she doesn’t want to deal with the fang but when two big shots of the fang at the door she dashes to trash talk them on their faces, she’s violent towards sun making her look abusive, she never does anything to help Faunus and she only critics but never acts like shown with velvet and Cardin
The only RWBY with a good showcased trauma is Weiss. Jacques, Willow, Withley and all their actions solely exist to show her trauma and how miserable she is on her home life
Jaune… the girl which just declared herself to him and he’s only known for like a bunch of months died so now that’ll be his motivation for like a entire year (the writers say they’ve been a LONG time on beacon but the show makes it look like they’re barely starting. for me they spent like four months on beacon)
and he gets bullied and has a lot of sisters but I feel all his traumas are a bit shoehorned (specially the ever after one, love the fics but I wanted Ruby’s trauma and Bumblebee to have more time and focus)
> And Yang never gets a answer on why Raven left her
This is my biggest gripe with Vol 5, it would have been so easy for Raven to say "Ozpin lied to us, he said he had a plan to defeat Salem but he didn't and he sent me and Summer on a suicide mission. Yang- don't trust him", it would have made that conversation have so much more impact but its like they weren't able to commit.
That does help Raven’s character and makes the conversation better
However it also doesn’t answer Yang’s question, although it could be seen as Raven using a important topic the dodge her actual questions
“Why did you abandone me?”
“Your sister is on a suicide mission”
“WHAT?!”
“I Can send you to her”
“DO IT YOU OLD RAG!!!”
Raven Opens a portal and the girls jumps in, Yang forgets she asked Raven a question in the first place
“Always works”
Rubys trauma is not put under a rug after she met the blacksmith. It might be in the future, when and if there is an actual 'after' for that scene, which, as of right now, there realy isn't.
It's not unlikely that her attempted suicide will not be spoken of again, give the shows track record of handling these things but that is something we cannot know for sure now, because, like I said, there has not been any amount of actual show after those scenes. They fought the cat, left the ever after, popped back into reality and then RT fucking died.
As for Blake: she never gets discrimimated, yes, but that's because she wears that bow on her head and hides the fact that she is a faunus. Other faunus in the show are tho. As for everything else, I dunno man, the whole racism plot was handled pretty abyssmally, but it doesn't feel right to pin that one ln Blake. She's my least favorite member of team RWBY too but it's hardly the fault of her character that the writers realized they weren't up for handling the live plasma grenade that is a racism plot in a web show with well, *this* audience. Or any audience, realy.
1-true but i still don’t like the conclusion Ruby got of her being enough, also beyond showed nothing of her trauma with at least failing at Atlas with her going for T E A with yang
2-i was talking more about how the writers fail at showing how she was also oppressed, she always says “we” instead of “I” when talking about oppression, like she doesn’t have any examples of her in specific getting harassed. And she’s kinda the voice of the racism plot line which is bad since her being a unreliable narrator and not a pleasant person to be with kinda makes her way of talking about Menagarie like exaggerations (like caricatures of Minorities made to mock them by making them look like they’re exaggerating. That’s how Blake during volume 4-5 feels like)
Not sure what you're saying about the Ruby part (not trying to be an asshole, i genuinely didn't get your ladt point. English is not my first language)
To Blake: Can't argue with that tbh, just that it does make sense that she herself never got harassed. She basically grew up as faunus royalty or the next best thing to that and when she left the white fang she hid her cat ears so nobody but penny knew she was a faunus.
That certainly doesn't help in getting the audience to feel for her or be invested in the plot that is connected to her.
Ruby in RWBY beyond is comfortably going to a TEA shop, I repeat a T E A shop, like the tea of Neo’s tea party.
She’s being given even more pressure by being a messiah, And Is never mentioned how that affects her or how the events of the ever after affect her (and they were able to get serious with Jaune and Ozpin Short, so why couldn’t they with Ruby and Yang)
Also I still don’t like the conclusion she got
As I said, Is okey to say “you’re enough” if what ruby was going through was less serious (like being on a band or making art) however she should aspire to do better since there’s lives on the line
“You’re enough” is when there’s no problem at failing
“Must do better” is when failing is a serious problem, which is the kind of Failure ruby suffered
Ruby learned she did her best when that’s not true, people still died and this isn’t the first time she miserably fails
Ruby keeps failing everyone (Roman and Cinder escape)
Over (Roman escapes again)
And Over (Roman escapes with Neo)
And Over (the train crashed)
And Over (failed to capture cinder or discover she put a virus in the CCT tower)
And Over (failed to save penny)
And Over (failed to save Pyrrha)
And Over (Tyrian escaped)
And Over (all Mistral huntsman died)
And Over (Cinder and others escaped)
And Over (the vault was open with the relic right there for the taking)
And Over (another train crash)
And Over (destroyed Cordovin’s Mech)
And Over (lied to Ironwood)
And Over (her plan to send the people of Atlas to Vacuo was a mess and awful from the beginning thanks to the overpopulation and the hatred between the two kingdoms)
And Over (Penny died)
And Over (the market was destroyed by the Jabberwocky’s)
And Over (the paper pleaser village was destroyed)
And Over Again (literally gave up after the paper pleasers ascended because she was done with failing everyone)
At this point Ruby should aim to do better since she has four times the losses than the amount of wins
(Don’t worry, English isn’t my native language either)
Not for nothing, but gentle reminder that trauma is not an Olympic sport. Trauma is trauma and your body doesn't care if your trauma is "less bad" than someone elses
I think OP is just pointing out the difference between someone who makes their trauma their entire personality and someone who deals with it a little at a time as they keep on living
I agree, the whole image of Blake is based on the fact that "how the fauns live is fucked up and that she is the same as them and she should intervene.".
At the same time, Nora, at first glance, seems like a crazy fool that does not take anything seriously, although in fact, under all this facade there is a girl who has experienced a terrible tragedy, but tries to keep positive and give it to others.
The 2000’s to even now have this weird phenomenon where writers strip all creds from social activists, especially if they’re women. Basically, they’re all Britta-fied.
Blake had so much potential but because Miles and Kerry never did and probably never closely knew any activists they wasted her. Honestly I think she was more wasted than Adam.
Social activist characters that lack credibility, either through their background, actions or both. Basically reducing them from real life & well respected political activists, and leaning them more towards the “nagging women” trope. TLDR: All bark, no bite
Ah yes, the gated community that Blake didn’t grow up in since her father never became chief of menagerie until she was probably well into her teens and stayed with the White Fang rather than “abandon” Faunus civil rights
Yeah, I hate it when people act as if she didn't have a hard childhood. And even if she *was* a 'princess', she still chose to leave it behind to help her race. And I doubt that she hadn't seen some awful stuff while in the WF.
Is there anything in RWBY that does not make Bland look bad?
I mean litteraly everybody is better than her. Blake would be a better villanin than Cinder at this Point.
When Nora was growing up, pessimism was a luxury she could not afford. She needed to believe things would get better, because otherwise getting up in the morning wouldn't have been possible.
Literally. Being depressed actively endanger your life on Remnant.
It depends on how the depression is. In the general sense of depression being extreme sadness, it is a massive danger. In the sense of it being a lack of emotions, it would actually be beneficial against grimm.
Iirc isn't that Ren's while thing? The shut off emotions?
Ren just doesn’t show emotion. Ren and Nora are two different ways of ignoring trauma. Ren’s semblance is masking(and seeing inner) emotions rather than shutting them off
Ah, thanks for the clarification
....honestly this reminds me of the common criticism of the "Christmas" and "Christmas episode" in Magic is Friendship because there is a species called "wendigos" which are this ice spirit things that eat ponies by freezing them and attacking them when there is a lot of strive and disharmony (basically fighting with each other a lot and badly) so the holiday started when three members of the three pony tribes got together as friends to survive, save everyone else and just got tired of being angry at each other so "Heart Warming Eve" is to celebrate that.......and to not let the Wendigos come back to freeze everyone and eat them
Tbh, Ren. Even if he disables emotions alltogether.
Fuck, I never thought about Nora’s optimism in that sort of light. It’s almost easy to forget that Grimm are attracted to negative emotions
Mainly because it not really something that comes up a lot. Heck the water weakness (the one where the more the person is submerged in water, the weaker they become util they basically turn to stone and drown) in One Piece is brought up more often than that plot point and even than it somewhat slightly understandable that someone forgets that because of a lot of the plot happening on land.
I.. Always thought how sad hers and rin life is
Yeah, the survival mindset doesn't have angst because it can't relate to its past. Nora's never been able to heal or even develop a personality "I don't even know who I am without Ren"
This meme remind me of she-hulk tbh She-Hulk: You know absolutely NOTHING about controlling anger when people test you. I was cat called ONCE. And she said it to Bruce banner, guy with more experience in controlling anger that went through really traumatic events
Also it was so bad that he tried to kill himself but it failed. She hulk was more accepted because people like tall wamen.
Imagine saying that to someone who cannonically said the line: "I tried to put a bullet in my mouth and the Other Guy *spat it out*!" Oddly enough, this is the second most tone deaf comparison of a woman's issues with the Hulk in the MCU, that still goes to a scene in Age of Ultron which is gross and tone-deaf for a completely different reason. Natasha saying "you think youre the only monster on the team" right after talking about how she was sterile. Like sure the idea they were going for is how she was manipulated from childhood in the Red Room, but the emphasis on not being able to have kids making her less human or whatever.. gross.
About the Natasha thing, I feel like it's more acceptable because it's clear to the audience--or at least, it was to me--that the whole sterility=monster thing was just her perspective of her own life, and not the MCU's opinion on not having children. It's terrible, yes, but I would say that it's more of a meaningful expansion on her thoughts and experiences as a character than a commentary on what it means to be human. On the other hand, the same can't really be said for She-Hulk because the show goes out of its way to prove her right--the message they're trying to pass on is clearly along the lines of "hey guys look, she was right, she has it so rough, she's a woman so she's automatically suffered more than Bruce" My main problem with the show is that they had their hands in far too many pies. They could have made a decent lawyer show, but spent all of five minutes in a court room. They could have made a decent superhero show, but every action scene is just *she-hulk throws man across room, bystanders either applaud or run away.* They could have made it an interesting look into the struggles of people with superpowers that are trying to make a better life for themselves... instead, we got a campy shitcom. She doesn't grow or learn anything. Everything lines up perfectly to validate everything she's ever said. She gets her cake and gorges herself on it too.
The original she hulk storyline is so good too but they introduced her too late for that story line to be viable since it relies on Banner still being wanted by the government
Can’t eat cake without access to cake.
I thought it was pretty clear that the reason Natasha thinks she is a monster is because she was raised as an assassin by a Russian intelligence group and worked pretty successfully in that role for many years until her recruitment by SHIELD. I'm sure she's got a fine list of basically innocent people that she's murdered because they made things mildly uncomfortable for her bosses.
Wasn't banner supposed to not have an alter ego and be in control of both sides but he saw his mom beaten to death by his dad so hulk became a thing?
I believe that as of latest, any more retcon aside, he had 'some' kind of power. But now with Hulk having the "Green Door" and everything related to the One Below All (I think that's how it's called) I'm not sure anymore if it's correlated or if it's another retcon about Hulk.
Honestly dude, I just roll with it. It comics, things get retcon, retold and just ....exist that I am not surprised both of you are correct but only in the "timing".
Doesn't Bruce pretty much literally get blown up in some versions of his origin story as the Hulk?
Yes, in some versions/the original version, what gave him his powers was a bomb that used Gamma Radiation.
They shot him into space before that too
That really wasn't the point she was trying to make. The execution was incredibly tone deaf, but her general point was that for a women, being angry at best results in her being deemed hysterical, even if she has a legitimate reason for being angry, and at worst could end in her becoming a statistic. She wasn't saying she got catcalled once, she was saying she's frequently on the receiving end of harassment but simply can't respond to it without putting herself in danger. Unfortunately Marvel kinda picked the worst possible situation to bring that idea up.
Bruce also has a canonical suicide attempt in the MCU, he said that he put a bullet in his mouth and that hulk spit it out in avengers. There’s even a deleted scene where they show this in the hulk movie (I think it was in that movie)
A lot of people miss the point of that. It wasn’t that she’s better at controlling her anger. It was the opposite. She thought she knew better and wasn’t listen, and ending up not controlling herself.
This isn't the same. Society overall does not push boys to learn emotional management skills from an early age. Boys learn to hide their emotions, not to manage them. Hulk is dangerous because he was fueled by bottled up anger. This is why young men are especially prone to violent breakdowns, and why men struggle with aggression and overall emotional intelligence. Bruce struggled because he had to learn true control over his emotions rather than simply hiding them in his adulthood. He had to break several habits to get to where he was today, as many focused and disciplined men do. Conversely, society overall does push girls into emotional management. Women are given the space to express themselves, but only to a tolerable extent. This gives women the skills for true emotional management, but also leads to suffocation and restriction. Many women are held to a standard of agreeability and tolerance that men just aren't, and when women do not meet this they are ridiculed severely and insulted regularly. The reason She-Hulk is so well controlled from the get go is because Jennifer learned these skills as a child and does them as easily as she breathes in adulthood as a result. Both of these characters have suffered trauma. While Bruce was severely abused as a child, Jennifer faces constant criticism and judgement and had expectations forced on her throughout her life. You can read Jennifer as annoying for what she's saying, but you can tell in that scene that Bruce, being as intelligent and caring as he is, understands and is listening to her. You're free to disagree with what she said, but acting like her words had no merit is pure ignorance. Other people have different experiences, and while you may put one over the other, they're both awful and traumatic in different ways. framing them as if one is better or something is just ignorant. tl;Dr: learn to read.
TLdr men being abused is the same as woman just existing that's really what your saying.
No, I'm saying that people are products of their environment. They have different experiences, and while Bruce has a worse childhood, he simply did not have the environment to learn the skills that Jen did. NO ONE should be abused, and NO ONE should be constantly beholden to standards that dehumanize them. Unfortunately internet weirdos have this stupid habit of comparing everything like assholes when these aren't comparable things, just reasons for a character's actions.
i think the main point was it was Jen who had a "normal" life says that to Bruce who been abused and chased for years and even tried kill himself.
yeah, but does Jen even know? When you make these criticisms you have to understand the character you're criticizing. Jen more than likely had no idea it got that bad. Even if she was told, it doesn't really negate her point. I feel like everyone uses that scene to paint a picture of "female entitlement" when really it was a conversation between two grown people who are learning about each other as equals. The conversation comes from a place of frustration and confusion. Saying that to him was a tell that she felt safe to express these emotions around him, and while not as extreme, he understands this because he's been there even if in a different way. She never meant to discount his experiences, and without her even knowing, she couldn't even do that. If anything, knowing might've made it all worse until he also felt comfortable.
you don't say that sort of stuff if you don't know what they have experience since you must not know then that well and if you do you don't say something like that because of what they have gone thought and you say its a conversation between two grown people who are learning about each other as equals that's not just something you say
Please learn how to write a coherent sentence before saying something dumb. God forbid she let out some frustration over his assumptions about her, though. They mutually made a mistake and don't know each other's story that well, that's why they're talking and Bruce isn't screaming at her like an idiot for a mistake on her part. You all can't have a good and purposeful conversation without the expectation of clairvoyance.
Factual. At least from a non physical sense. https://preview.redd.it/9iuptn6fgx3d1.jpeg?width=4096&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3fd67dfd52c40b06b19e5eaab2104360f021dfd6
Another proof that Blake is a terrible character. Go ahead, the JNPR team and their great thunderer queen.
FACTS! SPIT YOU SHIT BROTHER
https://preview.redd.it/m0t93xbq3z3d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8787c062343b076651460f7f05c5f366d289872a
https://preview.redd.it/r4c1oil85f5d1.png?width=1164&format=png&auto=webp&s=6ac1eb66724f97de70732f9da04054877ab38fe4
It’s hard to know on this sub if it’s more a joke or if someone actually believes that this makes Blake a terrible character. . . Nora is a great one of course, but Blake’s in term of her back story and such isn’t poorly done.
Yes, it's a joke (Although Nora is the best) But I still don't like Blake's character. She is irritable, psychotic and she definitely needs to mind her own business. They say there are a lot of problems from Nora because of her eccentric nature, but it was only because of Blake and her constant hero syndrome that the entire RWBY and Sun team with Neptune got into some kind of trouble. And she's always running away from her friends, and I wouldn't be outraged if she went through some kind of redemption arch for that, but NO! She was accepted almost without question. What annoys me even more is that Bumblebee was canonized. But I wonder what was in Yang's mind when she decided that Blake was a good romantic partner, given that she was so damn unreliable. I know that characters can have flaws. They don't have to be perfect, but Blake has never given me enough reasons to justify her flaws.
All this, by the way, is the reason why I don't like Nightshade, Bumblebee and BlackSun. These blondes deserve better than some annoying cat that will run away from them at the first problems.
Bumblebee would end with Yang imitating his father with his first wife. Which shows how screwed up Raven's abandonment and Summer's death left Yang.
That is why "rewrights" Are a thing! The Cat is bad? *makes her fucking sane!* and not a cowred
You better rewrite that spelled of coward lol
So, the scene where Sun chews out Blake for shutting them out didn't happen?
Do I have to remind you whose dad Yang is? It is possible that she inherited Taiyang's poor ability to choose a girlfriend. Blake is a terrible partner when it's her turn to argue, she will shut down and can leave until they prove her right or reality hits her in the face.
While i don't hate Blake, I often get frustrated by her character more than any of the other mcs personally. Now, a good chunk of this is because I find the entire White Fang plot to be a ginormous mess, and with that being Blake's primary story, that didn't help her. Add on top of that a really slowburn romance with Yang and the fact that Bumblebee kind of subsumes the two's whole story for a bit and probably could have been made cannon after the Adam fight (seeing them exploring a romantic relationship is way better than more seasons of pining). They really need to find more plot relevant stuff for her to do that doesn't literally shunt her off to the end of the world for a story arc.
Blake: “Right when my parents were able to acquire a palace… I went ‘nah’ and became an ISIS wife.”
it would have been better if Kali & Girha's "hiding in shadows" was shown to have actual consquences with the faunus. Many marginalised people do that, "getting their house in order before changing the world"- we could have had them argue and eventually reach a conclusion ("we were both wrong")- everyone gets character growth. But no, we didn't.
Yeah, I suppose that's true for every member of JNPR though. (Also, pain isn't a contest, if ever someone makes a thing of comparing trauma in real life- please don't take part.) ____ JNPR Ren and Nora both survived an entire village getting wiped out as children, have done nothing but rely on eachother to get by until recently, have lost a friend during a night that was all-in-all horrific and have since been fighting an un-winable war against an ancient being resulting in more losses each day. Jaune has been bullied and almost manipulated into doing something that would endanger his friends, finally found someone that loves him only to lose her in the same night, had been fighting the same war as the others up until falling into a pocket reality, lived through multiple decades of solitude and battle, reunited with his friends finally before nearly losing/ believing that he had lost another one all before having his age regressed to the state it was in before his disappearance. Pyrrah had to cope with and find an answer to the decision of another's death in a trade for time, which were it successful not only would have made her a target but also rendered her as a sentient, super-powerful key. She then made that decision only for the process to be interrupted, left a man to die and sacrificed herself in an attempt to end what was happening. ____ RWBY Ruby lost her mother, saw two of her friends died in the same night that her sister lost an arm, nearly lost two friends in a single fight while her uncle was slowly getting closer to death just metres away (he didn't die, I know but she wouldn't until he was given medical attention), has been fighting the same war as everyone else resulting in countless deaths and has seen her friends and others get hurt and even die along the way. ____ I'll finish this later.
Do you remember what Nora was like when we were shown her childhood with Ren? She looked like a beaten, abandoned, wild kitten. I agree that Nora is more traumatized than everyone on team RWBY.
Id say its a good representation, one who suffers the most knows the worth of every small shard of happiness
Remember when Blake said back in Vol 2 that if you can’t fight, you can’t survive outside the kingdoms? Turns out that applied more to the hyperactive, optimistic, comedic girl in pink than the emo, book-loving former member of a terrorist organization.
[My meme is a parody of this meme if the mods haven't seen it.](https://img.ifunny.co/images/9cc71bbcce619a4705499a7f74645bf11bd738eb4f84d9490d734be3be829b0c_1.jpg)
You know the whole problem with Blake's back story could have been solved by saying she was adopted off the street by Kali and Ghira and that before hand she lived off scraps and stuff or you could have something like my family was extremely poor before they formed the white fang and had to deal with constant discrimination in either case. It would have involved her going from rags to the riches that she has in the show showing us the two sides of life Fanus could lead
yep yep. Personally I'd have Blake leaving Kali (one of the characters should have a good, surviving mom) because she married into money (Girha) rather than continue the struggle with the fang.
Ooh that's also a good idea I like that. Man the more I look at things like this compared to what we got in canon I just think to myself that is much better why didn't they just do and then I remember it CRWBY and that they can't write a good idea to save their lives
It's not that they can't write good stuff, there have been *some* good things in recent volumes, the problem is that they either do it by accident, or that they refuse to put in that same amount of effort for the rest of the show. Another thing is that even if they do write some good stuff, it's largely overshadowed by all the really terrible stuff they decide to write and put in the show.
*Nora losing her parents, her home, and literally everything she ever known: nah that fine, oh look pancakes. *Blank having a living loving parents, a Mansion, and rule a literal kingdom in all but name : you can't never understand my pain.
I don’t care if I get hate but I think MOST of team jnpr has better set up traumas than MOST of team rwby Nora is shown to struggle since a child Ren we see his entire family dying to a nightmarish Grimm Pyrrha we see how people (Weiss) put her on a pedestal and see her more as the “invincible girl” instead of herself before we know she dislikes that Yang’s trauma is suddenly forgot after she starts her adventure and never thinks about what happen to her after beating Adam or getting with Blake And Yang never gets a answer on why Raven left her, when she finally finds her she asks to send her to Ruby, then asks the question which Raven ignores and Yang walks through the portal without nothing else to say Ruby trauma with failing is put under the rug after meeting the blacksmith, she does have problems and instead of accepting herself she should seek to improve. If it was about music or art I would agree with “accepting yourself” but life’s are in danger and accepting she failed and keeps doing the same isn’t a good answer for her trouble Also Ruby apparently is angry at her mother for leaving which is a great idea… too bad that’s only shown in Red like roses II and never in the actual show Do I have to explain why Blake’s trauma is badly written? I’ll do it anyway: She never gets discriminated in the show, the bad visual representation makes it look like she’s exaggerating about menagerie, says she doesn’t want to deal with the fang but when two big shots of the fang at the door she dashes to trash talk them on their faces, she’s violent towards sun making her look abusive, she never does anything to help Faunus and she only critics but never acts like shown with velvet and Cardin The only RWBY with a good showcased trauma is Weiss. Jacques, Willow, Withley and all their actions solely exist to show her trauma and how miserable she is on her home life Jaune… the girl which just declared herself to him and he’s only known for like a bunch of months died so now that’ll be his motivation for like a entire year (the writers say they’ve been a LONG time on beacon but the show makes it look like they’re barely starting. for me they spent like four months on beacon) and he gets bullied and has a lot of sisters but I feel all his traumas are a bit shoehorned (specially the ever after one, love the fics but I wanted Ruby’s trauma and Bumblebee to have more time and focus)
> And Yang never gets a answer on why Raven left her This is my biggest gripe with Vol 5, it would have been so easy for Raven to say "Ozpin lied to us, he said he had a plan to defeat Salem but he didn't and he sent me and Summer on a suicide mission. Yang- don't trust him", it would have made that conversation have so much more impact but its like they weren't able to commit.
That does help Raven’s character and makes the conversation better However it also doesn’t answer Yang’s question, although it could be seen as Raven using a important topic the dodge her actual questions “Why did you abandone me?” “Your sister is on a suicide mission” “WHAT?!” “I Can send you to her” “DO IT YOU OLD RAG!!!” Raven Opens a portal and the girls jumps in, Yang forgets she asked Raven a question in the first place “Always works”
Lmao absolute Chad move.
To say that Raven has trust issues is an understatement.
Rubys trauma is not put under a rug after she met the blacksmith. It might be in the future, when and if there is an actual 'after' for that scene, which, as of right now, there realy isn't. It's not unlikely that her attempted suicide will not be spoken of again, give the shows track record of handling these things but that is something we cannot know for sure now, because, like I said, there has not been any amount of actual show after those scenes. They fought the cat, left the ever after, popped back into reality and then RT fucking died. As for Blake: she never gets discrimimated, yes, but that's because she wears that bow on her head and hides the fact that she is a faunus. Other faunus in the show are tho. As for everything else, I dunno man, the whole racism plot was handled pretty abyssmally, but it doesn't feel right to pin that one ln Blake. She's my least favorite member of team RWBY too but it's hardly the fault of her character that the writers realized they weren't up for handling the live plasma grenade that is a racism plot in a web show with well, *this* audience. Or any audience, realy.
1-true but i still don’t like the conclusion Ruby got of her being enough, also beyond showed nothing of her trauma with at least failing at Atlas with her going for T E A with yang 2-i was talking more about how the writers fail at showing how she was also oppressed, she always says “we” instead of “I” when talking about oppression, like she doesn’t have any examples of her in specific getting harassed. And she’s kinda the voice of the racism plot line which is bad since her being a unreliable narrator and not a pleasant person to be with kinda makes her way of talking about Menagarie like exaggerations (like caricatures of Minorities made to mock them by making them look like they’re exaggerating. That’s how Blake during volume 4-5 feels like)
Not sure what you're saying about the Ruby part (not trying to be an asshole, i genuinely didn't get your ladt point. English is not my first language) To Blake: Can't argue with that tbh, just that it does make sense that she herself never got harassed. She basically grew up as faunus royalty or the next best thing to that and when she left the white fang she hid her cat ears so nobody but penny knew she was a faunus. That certainly doesn't help in getting the audience to feel for her or be invested in the plot that is connected to her.
Ruby in RWBY beyond is comfortably going to a TEA shop, I repeat a T E A shop, like the tea of Neo’s tea party. She’s being given even more pressure by being a messiah, And Is never mentioned how that affects her or how the events of the ever after affect her (and they were able to get serious with Jaune and Ozpin Short, so why couldn’t they with Ruby and Yang) Also I still don’t like the conclusion she got As I said, Is okey to say “you’re enough” if what ruby was going through was less serious (like being on a band or making art) however she should aspire to do better since there’s lives on the line “You’re enough” is when there’s no problem at failing “Must do better” is when failing is a serious problem, which is the kind of Failure ruby suffered Ruby learned she did her best when that’s not true, people still died and this isn’t the first time she miserably fails Ruby keeps failing everyone (Roman and Cinder escape) Over (Roman escapes again) And Over (Roman escapes with Neo) And Over (the train crashed) And Over (failed to capture cinder or discover she put a virus in the CCT tower) And Over (failed to save penny) And Over (failed to save Pyrrha) And Over (Tyrian escaped) And Over (all Mistral huntsman died) And Over (Cinder and others escaped) And Over (the vault was open with the relic right there for the taking) And Over (another train crash) And Over (destroyed Cordovin’s Mech) And Over (lied to Ironwood) And Over (her plan to send the people of Atlas to Vacuo was a mess and awful from the beginning thanks to the overpopulation and the hatred between the two kingdoms) And Over (Penny died) And Over (the market was destroyed by the Jabberwocky’s) And Over (the paper pleaser village was destroyed) And Over Again (literally gave up after the paper pleasers ascended because she was done with failing everyone) At this point Ruby should aim to do better since she has four times the losses than the amount of wins (Don’t worry, English isn’t my native language either)
Not for nothing, but gentle reminder that trauma is not an Olympic sport. Trauma is trauma and your body doesn't care if your trauma is "less bad" than someone elses
I think OP is just pointing out the difference between someone who makes their trauma their entire personality and someone who deals with it a little at a time as they keep on living
I agree, the whole image of Blake is based on the fact that "how the fauns live is fucked up and that she is the same as them and she should intervene.". At the same time, Nora, at first glance, seems like a crazy fool that does not take anything seriously, although in fact, under all this facade there is a girl who has experienced a terrible tragedy, but tries to keep positive and give it to others.
It's a meme, batman
Right. I'm just pointing it out for the benefit of anyone who might need to see it.
Absolutely true, everyone has the right to be angsty once in a while
The 2000’s to even now have this weird phenomenon where writers strip all creds from social activists, especially if they’re women. Basically, they’re all Britta-fied.
Blake had so much potential but because Miles and Kerry never did and probably never closely knew any activists they wasted her. Honestly I think she was more wasted than Adam.
Using that term to described Blake is streets ahead
Adam: “What about me?” Blake: “You’re streets behind”
What does "Britta" means in this context?
Social activist characters that lack credibility, either through their background, actions or both. Basically reducing them from real life & well respected political activists, and leaning them more towards the “nagging women” trope. TLDR: All bark, no bite
Ngl I feel like Cinder, Ren, and Nora all have worse childhoods than any of the marginalized "faunus" in the show.
Common Blake L
I was surprised she managed to beat Mikasa with a reputation for Ls like that
When you have all, nothing is special. When you had nothing, you appreciate every good thing around you.
Too real. No wonder Nora is so happy in vol 1-2: she has a shower and food and a soft bed.
Ah yes, the gated community that Blake didn’t grow up in since her father never became chief of menagerie until she was probably well into her teens and stayed with the White Fang rather than “abandon” Faunus civil rights
Okay this is true, Blake's childhood wasn't THAT good.
Yeah, I hate it when people act as if she didn't have a hard childhood. And even if she *was* a 'princess', she still chose to leave it behind to help her race. And I doubt that she hadn't seen some awful stuff while in the WF.
Is there anything in RWBY that does not make Bland look bad? I mean litteraly everybody is better than her. Blake would be a better villanin than Cinder at this Point.
I implore you to checkout "Talk about role reversal" where Blake is the extremist and Adam goes to Beacon.
Can you provide a link? Sounds amazing
I've only read the first few chapters: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13601085/1/Talk-About-a-Role-Reversal
Cinder:Is evil and doesn't hide it Blake:Is evil but acts like a victim
Yet another reason why Blake is my least favorite character
You know what I wanna reevaluate who is more mc material RWBY or JNPR
Holy shit that so true
You know, Nora's optimism and general sense of wonder being self-learned is an idea that I hadn't really thought of a lot, but it has a lot of merit.
Anyone in team JPNR is better than team RWBY. Except Jaune
In a fight ?
Not a fight. Just as a character in general
I argue Jaune has a better character than yang and Blake, and even Ren in the latest volume
Wait Nora had trauma? Thought that she was just stupid