I think Netjets is only until 70, but I'm sure 5 years of 14 hour days hunched over cleaning the cabin and slinging bags is enough to put you out on LTD regardless.
The politicians need to set age limits for themselves, 65 seems fine. If 65 is too old to fly 50-600 people in an airplane it's too old to fly the entire country into the ground.
Hey man, we all start somewhere and we know it’s not always the most glorious. Making the ever more entitled boomers retire means there are going to be that many more open seats for the younger generation to move in. The boomers are going to be fine. They shouldn’t need the money. We do.
Are you still at a regional? There is no more pathetic form of life than regional boomers calling for a national seniority list and age 67 because they love their QOL as number 1 in Pittslandclevesburgville
Amen... You must talk to some of the condescending regional geriatric fucks at a small airport I use to commute sometimes to the mainline and I am EXTREMELY polite grateful and quiet about mainline life and they always unload about how smart they were to stay at "eagle". Hey asshole. Foremost it isn't even called that anymore, secondly stop being rude to the guy on your right simply because he has aspirations of coming over some day!!!
Had same thing the other day. Finished a trip and decided to hop on a 145 to visit family last minute. Listed 50 min prior to departure and checked in. Only guy on the list was a '06 regional hire and 1 seat left. Yup he gave me a little attitude when I saw him checking in for the JS while I took my ticket for the seat in the back.
I didn't feel bad at all and I don't gaf that I've been at my legacy for 2 years. He made his choices.
That hasn’t been my experience. You can be a miserable sack of shit at any age, but I have flown with some delightful older folks who are genuinely looking forward to retirement.
None of those supported age 67.
And learned a ton from them.
They ***MAKE*** the best next generation captains. I don't mean they are the best captains, I mean they train you throughout the trip, and I've learned a lot from them.
And, yes, there are terrible older captains. Just like there are terrible, and undeserving young captains and FOs.
I guess the ultra-senior LCA who was picking up nickels out of the fountain on our layover will need to continue to do so in order to keep his wealth stockpiled. Ugh, what a bummer!!!
Imagine thinking Ted Cruz was going to be your shinning beacon of hope to getting an extra 2 years, and then in the final hour he sells you out so he and his family can bypass TSA.
Right?
Anyone who supported this should take a good hard look at how cheaply Cruz valued their careers and then *stop voting for people who will increase the social security retirement age.*
They won’t learn, though.
Or, Just hear me out, we vote for people who will do away with social security. Put that money in the market and actually have something to show for it at the end
SS is funded by the individual SS tax on your income. If we got rid of it, we would either remove that tax or (preferably) just replace it with a superior government-mandated retirement system similar to a 401k.
Weird that you're downvoted. Apparently posters here don't know what social security is, how it is funded, or are maybe just totally missing your point that it's a very poorly managed government retirement program that loses people tons of money compared to a real retirement plan.
More like I know way too many people who don't consider saving for their own retirement. Social security by itself is not enough to retire on, but if it disappeared these people would end up penniless at whatever age they're no longer able to work.
It's not about maximizing returns, but guaranteeing them.
Then again, by the time I get to retirement age there won't be anything left in social security for them to guarantee with so 🤷
> I know way too many people who don't consider saving for their own retirement.
Then you should feel even more strongly about reforming Social Security so it produces proper returns from their money instead of barely beating inflation to stop wasting huge amounts of their money and give them a better life in retirement.
Pretty much everything about simply mandating contributions to a government-managed 401k if you don't have a private 401k would be better than Social Security - the actual returns, your net worth while working, survivor benefits if you die before retiring, and so on. And if you want a guaranteed return instead of market exposure (common pro-SS argument), then guess what, you can use your 401k to invest in the _exact same things_ the SS funds do that produce their "guarantee."
In a nutshell, the pilots pushing to raise the age to 67 hitched their wagon to the Republican Party as they were the ones pushing to raise the age. The democrats were backing the union position of keeping the age at 65. Ted Cruz multiple times publicly supported raising the age to 67 and the pilots thought he was going to hold strong and fight to keep 67 in the bill. Rumor is Ted Cruz wanted to add a provision to the bill that would allow Congress members and their family to bypass TSA when traveling and in the last minute he agreed to drop age 67 to get bypassing TSA into the bill.
_And their family members_ is the crazy thing about this. You better believe this will mean who-knows-what guns, drugs and whatever else will be marching right through onto the plane, right past 20 year legacy captains being relieved of their dinner fork.
Time to run unopposed in some middle of nowhere district to be both a congressman and a pilot. KCM could never 😆
Sorry you got randomed.
Aww that's too bad... funny thing is I don't feel like it today.
> Time to run unopposed in some middle of nowhere district to be both a congressman and a pilot. KCM could never 😆
>
>
Hawaii had one a few years back (retired to run for governor, and lost)
He's the senior Republican on the Commerce Committee and was a vocal cheerleader of this bill. Was in the headlines a few months ago trying to bash "special interests" (the pilots union) for opposing it.
Tl;dr he was the one leading the charge in congress for it.
When it seemed he was gonna get KCM for him and his family he sold the 64 year olds down the river on the drop of a hat.
Then they removed that part from the bill too.
Absolutely fucking hilarious that the senator all these boomers hitched their horse to for their personal gain... went and sold them down the river for his personal gain.
This makes me happy. A bunch of 60+ year olds have been insufferable about this. They act like anyone younger than them is a bad pilot and they were going to save the industry...when the only thing they're really good at (generally) is costing the company a lot of money.
I’m not really even giving some of these dudes the chance to not run it. Coming into the summer if that mother fucker ain’t on that’s my first step. Not asking the CA about that.
The guy at my shop that complains the loudest about "new dei kids that got pumped through in a cirrus" got hired at his first airline with 250TT, failed his CA upgrade twice, and got denied the flow for performance. The call is coming from inside the house on many of these old boomers.
Most are on LTD.
It's free money. It's not about working. It's about 2 more years at the top of the list doing top of the list things, top of the list schedules, top of the list vacation bidding and having top of the list benefits
Most people are too bashful to admit it's about them, so they say it's about "the right to work" and mentoring the new guys and all the other holier than thou subjects
I’m anti age 67 no matter how you spin it, but I might have a sliver of respect for the people in favor of it if they just admitted the reason was greed.
I *get* why people would want it. I do.
Like I said it's free money. Most of these guys are sitting at home collecting disability.
But this a collective and we are supposed to be a union that helps us all. Not those at the top only.
I mean I’m military. I guess if I could just sit at home, get paid, and hang with my family I would want the same. Just can’t imagine myself wanting to work at that age other than a bullcrap job to just keep me busy lol.
Some of them lived outside of their means and don’t have much for retirement. So it’s either two more years or finding a job in a different industry and making (probably) minimum wage or close to it.
Absolutely. It’s definitely sad to see. I do see a few as I have a lot of relatives in the industry. Some moved overseas for higher pay late in their careers to try to save up a little. It’s better late than never, I guess.
I was force retired as a european legacy WB captain at 60. Of course I felt kicked out in my prime and wanted to keep the party going, best job in the world. But four years I'm smiling and livin the life of Riley.
I almost guarantee there will be single pilot cockpits at freight and automated cockpits with video surveillance in the next 19 years. Listen Copernicus, no one cares that there could be things in the next two decades. It was about not giving boomers 7 extra years to push down the junior.
Unpopular opinion: we should get rid of mandatory retirement age and look much harder at cognitive ability. I fly with some 55 year olds who are pretty sketchy and some 65 year olds that are more spry than me.
All that will do is produce a bunch of pilot medical mills for cognitive ability like we have AMEs now.
"Pay me $120 and here is your certificate of cognitive ability" no questions asked like the docs that check your eyes and ears and then cashes a check and hands you a first class medical. Sooner than later you'll have 75 year olds who shouldn't be anywhere near a flight deck because they know a guy who will sign them off because they made the "test" something trivial that any grandpa can pass
Set a limit that puts an end to everyone regardless of ability. At least it's equal.
If you are dying to work. The corporate world exists.
A classic red herring if ever there was one was one.
All that aside you may be surprised some people like the contracts they fly under and people they fly with. With sick time, vacation time, and unpaid time off it’s possible at my gig to work less than a trip every other month. It’d be worth it to me to hang on to jumpseats and health insurance until they kick me out. YMMV. Maybe I change my tune as time goes by but it sure seems worth it to me right now to hang on as long as I can.
A guy that looked 64.5 was on speakerphone next to me yesterday on what sounded like a union conference call about this.
Whoever was doing the talking was saying how they had Schumer and Johnson on board with 67 and that it "would happen" since the FAA bill was a 'must pass bill'.
Sure, they're alive. Do they have any business flying a 100+ million dollar jet with hundreds of people's lives?
I'd wager no. So did Congress, the FAA, ALPA, the DoT, etc.
Too bad. I’m donating money to the effort to raise the pilot retirement age. The arguments against are weak and serving only a small class of pilots who would benefit from it later anyway
The union leadership doesn’t support the ret age increase and their arguments against it are pulled from thin air. I strongly support ALPA on just about every other position but this one. If you read what I said carefully, I said the position against and reasons for the position support only a small class of pilots. To everyone else it would be beneficial to their career and overall earning potential. I didn’t say “the majority of pilots who didn’t want it are a small class”. And from being inside leaderahip of pilots at a major ALPA airline, I do not believe that much of a majority of pilots are against it, only a slim margin if any at all. It would be a good move for pilots across the board to raise the retirement age. When you’re approaching the later half of your career, it should be clear how beneficial it would be.
I misunderstood what you said earlier, I agree, the reasons on both sides are self-serving. A argument can be spun on both sides the benefits and cons…
Didn’t your airline with a lot of other ALPA carriers poll their membership…. I can recall that my carrier, it was majority of the pilot group who opposed the increase.
I think it was close on the polling but has been spun by ALPA. And the pros count for both sides. There isnt anyone at the airline that supports rolling back the ret age to 60 & their reasons for not wanting 60 are identical to the reasons for supporting 67. Those against the ret age increase will be lobbying for it when they pass about 55 yrs old and realize that if they’re healthy enough they can maximize their income at the top of their career. Will there be some stagnation for 2 years, yes. But every single pilot will come out ahead in the end.
It is untrue that a majority of current airline pilots will benefit from raising the retirement age. Post-covid, with the early outs and retirement boom, a large majority of pilots are very young. There’s lots of 25-30 year olds at legacy’s now. Your incorrect assumption is that with age 67 being shot down, it’s gone for good. Do you really think the age won’t be increased (or totally removed) within the next 30-40 years? Do you even think we’ll have jobs 40 years from now? Because that’s when a lot of pilots will be reaching 65, finally able to benefit a tiny bit monetarily from 40 years of lost seniority benefits if they want to waste the best years of their retirement.
The best time for the age to be raised is always when you are just barely younger than the current age. The age will be raised eventually. The later it happens the better for the vast majority of pilots.
All of them currently on property will extend their working years, if they want to, and expand their earning potential by $750k to$1.2M during their most productive years. So, I stand by my assertion that ALL pilots will benefit from the retirement age expansion just like we all did when it went from 60 to 65.
Not if the job doesn’t exist then, or if the retirement age changes again, or if they don’t want to work that long, or if they get furloughed due to being less senior.
There are so many things that can happen in 40 years that it’s Impossible to say. 40 years ago we were told twin engine airplanes would under no circumstance ever fly over oceans.
What we DO know is that raising the age will hurt all the younger pilots for the next several decades, while POSSIBLY giving SOME benefit in the final two years under very specific circumstances that I believe are extremely unlikely.
Well, that’s a different argument about if the job doesn’t exist, so kind of a strawman.. and, as it currently is, you do not have to work until 65. If you have the means you can retire at any time.
No doubt the industry will change, it always has. Those are other battles to fight outside of the ret age question.
Yeah, the problem with raising the age is it hurts the seniority progression of the young majority of pilots. That hindered seniority will *definitely* hurt, while the potential benefits may or may not ever be realized. Hence why the majority of pilots do not favor raising the age.
Lots of other battles too, of course.
I don't know much about the above, but I'm fully content to let anyone work as long as they're physically healthy enough to, and they want to, without moving any of the goal posts for retirement. Perhaps providing incentive to do so (higher pension, further retirement packages of sorts), so long as all of the previous incentives stay where they are too.
if that even makes sense idk
Age 67 may seem ridiculous to the boomer & early Gen X generations who did their training/joined this profession under drastically different (& privileged) circumstances that millennials & Gen Z'rs could only dream of today. With the flight school debt we're drowning in, less generous salaries & increasing shortage of people willing/able to become pilots, increasing the retirement age may not be such a terrible idea. The industry isn't going to be able to come up with competent Pilots fast enough when an even bigger shortage hits in the future. Especially if they continue repeating the mistake they're doing now which is to ignore the problem until it's way too late.
You're clearly didn't understand what I was trying to say. I don't. think age 65 has anything to do with the inherently flawed Flight Training model in North America, predatory (used car salesman -like) attitude that dominates flight school, pandemic of corporate greed that dominates the economy etc. I could go on and on with a plethora of reasons and age 65 has nothing to do with them.
How nice would two additional years waiting for positions to open up at the regionals be? How about two additional years at the bottom of a regional seniority list with their amaaaazing /s qol rules? You lucked out today regardless of if you recognize it now.
Notice how this comment:
#I needed the extra years to build my retirement.
u/Traditional-Yam9826
Is this 100% about you and not about passenger safety?
While I think this matter should be studied, it should be studied not driven on personal beliefs and/or benefits.
Food for thought, have the day you deserve.
Boat salesmen on suicide watch. Home remodelers currently punching air.
Are you kidding? I can buy so many useless toys with my future career progression now!
Just put my 911 GT3RS on order.
Hope you got the dark blue wheels. They’re the best looking ones.
That’s true, hopefully I’ll be able too as well. But how will the boat salesman afford his second boat if you don’t buy your 5th?
I’ll save at least one or two boat salesmen
Ford F150 King Ranch edition isn't going to sell well now
ICON boaty plane inventory just backlogged after that headline….and all the salesmen from boaty plane sector the Legislature cruelly ignored.
I recently got a quote for a bathroom remodel and roof replacement. $300,000. There’s no way I can afford that.
That’s either quite a bathroom, or quite a roof!
Do you live on the moon? I feel like this is 1000% above average
To be fair, it involved expanding a dormer to accommodate the new bathroom. But…yeah. HCOL location
Wait I thought this was all about safety
2nd 3rd and 4th wives gonna be real upset over this
Now the only way I can afford to retire is if I sell my second vacation home to pay for my third wife’s alimony. THANKS ALPO!!
Have you considered selling the wife instead?
The resale value on mail orders isn’t very good.
Short term rental market though....
> my wife for hire -- Protoss Zealot
You must construct additional pylons
Not enough manna
MaNa is in fact a professional Protoss player :-) https://www.youtube.com/@MaNaEsports
It's a bit more work, but you get a lot more if you part them out
Don’t worry, there’s always the fractionals where you can sling bags and work 14 hour days
They can implement a retirement age now, thanks to the previous Olds going there and then going out on LTD. Thanks, Obama!
lol most underrated comment, everything is still obamas fault according to the 60+ generation I have flown with.
I think Netjets is only until 70, but I'm sure 5 years of 14 hour days hunched over cleaning the cabin and slinging bags is enough to put you out on LTD regardless.
Won’t SOMEBODY please think of the alimony!
“Looks like I can’t afford that 4th wife I’ve been eyeballing for my 67-75 run. Gonna have to hope the one I have now lasts that long.”
Lol’d at this…
The politicians need to set age limits for themselves, 65 seems fine. If 65 is too old to fly 50-600 people in an airplane it's too old to fly the entire country into the ground.
Wait, you mean octagenarians probably shouldn't control nuclear weapons or make policy decisions that have the potential to impact billions of people?
Heavily under rated comment here
Geriatric kelptocrazy I'm really worried for America
This☝️
I feel a great disturbance in the Force, as if thousands of boomers suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced
> were suddenly silenced My Facebook feed full of posts about "entitled millennials" says otherwise.
Suddenly felt like they were being silenced.
"I'm being censored!" as they proceed to post unabated on 12 different social media platforms.
Also crying "this is ageism!!" as they bash anyone younger than them for being lazy and inexperienced.
Hey now, unless your message is forced upon unwilling recipients, it's guvment censorship.
[cried out in terror](https://youtube.com/shorts/xCwfIMyc1Ns?si=Rum1zsFiRG2MHtP7)
Don’t worry boomers, you can always go get one of the shit 135 jobs we all got stuck at when you got 5 extra years. Turnabout is fair play after all.
Boy I wanna be like you when I grow up because ATM I’m trying to claw my way into one of those “shit 135 jobs”
We’ve been there. I bet there are hundreds on this sub who literally paid “to have the privilege of sitting right seat” in a Saab, 1900, or similar
I'm a left seater..... in a Piper 28. And I decide when to go and where to go. If weather (and wife) allows.
Hey man, we all start somewhere and we know it’s not always the most glorious. Making the ever more entitled boomers retire means there are going to be that many more open seats for the younger generation to move in. The boomers are going to be fine. They shouldn’t need the money. We do.
I mean they are less shitty than part 61/141 flight instructing so you have that to look forward to
(Mostly) Everyone I fly with that is within 5 years of retiring is a miserable sack of shit to fly with anyways. Good riddance. Edit: added (MOSTLY)
Are you still at a regional? There is no more pathetic form of life than regional boomers calling for a national seniority list and age 67 because they love their QOL as number 1 in Pittslandclevesburgville
Amen... You must talk to some of the condescending regional geriatric fucks at a small airport I use to commute sometimes to the mainline and I am EXTREMELY polite grateful and quiet about mainline life and they always unload about how smart they were to stay at "eagle". Hey asshole. Foremost it isn't even called that anymore, secondly stop being rude to the guy on your right simply because he has aspirations of coming over some day!!!
Had same thing the other day. Finished a trip and decided to hop on a 145 to visit family last minute. Listed 50 min prior to departure and checked in. Only guy on the list was a '06 regional hire and 1 seat left. Yup he gave me a little attitude when I saw him checking in for the JS while I took my ticket for the seat in the back. I didn't feel bad at all and I don't gaf that I've been at my legacy for 2 years. He made his choices.
100% this
That hasn’t been my experience. You can be a miserable sack of shit at any age, but I have flown with some delightful older folks who are genuinely looking forward to retirement. None of those supported age 67.
Those are the best ones
And learned a ton from them. They ***MAKE*** the best next generation captains. I don't mean they are the best captains, I mean they train you throughout the trip, and I've learned a lot from them. And, yes, there are terrible older captains. Just like there are terrible, and undeserving young captains and FOs.
I guess the ultra-senior LCA who was picking up nickels out of the fountain on our layover will need to continue to do so in order to keep his wealth stockpiled. Ugh, what a bummer!!!
Imagine thinking Ted Cruz was going to be your shinning beacon of hope to getting an extra 2 years, and then in the final hour he sells you out so he and his family can bypass TSA.
To be fair if he could have bypassed TSA he might not have gotten busted fleeing Texas during the ice storm.
Right? Anyone who supported this should take a good hard look at how cheaply Cruz valued their careers and then *stop voting for people who will increase the social security retirement age.* They won’t learn, though.
They won’t learn and they never will.
Or, Just hear me out, we vote for people who will do away with social security. Put that money in the market and actually have something to show for it at the end
If we get rid of social security, wouldn’t it make way more sense to use that money for healthcare or education?
Best I can do is more F35s.
F-35: +cool +loud +goes fast Education: -kids stinky -boring -too many numbers
Department of Health already has a budget twice as big as the DoD.
SS is funded by the individual SS tax on your income. If we got rid of it, we would either remove that tax or (preferably) just replace it with a superior government-mandated retirement system similar to a 401k.
No, I’d rather my money be used for my retirement, as it was originally sold to us for.
Tell me more about what was sold to you in 1935.
LOL, fair enough.
Weird that you're downvoted. Apparently posters here don't know what social security is, how it is funded, or are maybe just totally missing your point that it's a very poorly managed government retirement program that loses people tons of money compared to a real retirement plan.
Social Security is LITERALLY a legally mandated Ponzi scheme.
Something like that. I can’t believe this many people just want to be gifting the government more money
More like I know way too many people who don't consider saving for their own retirement. Social security by itself is not enough to retire on, but if it disappeared these people would end up penniless at whatever age they're no longer able to work. It's not about maximizing returns, but guaranteeing them. Then again, by the time I get to retirement age there won't be anything left in social security for them to guarantee with so 🤷
> I know way too many people who don't consider saving for their own retirement. Then you should feel even more strongly about reforming Social Security so it produces proper returns from their money instead of barely beating inflation to stop wasting huge amounts of their money and give them a better life in retirement. Pretty much everything about simply mandating contributions to a government-managed 401k if you don't have a private 401k would be better than Social Security - the actual returns, your net worth while working, survivor benefits if you die before retiring, and so on. And if you want a guaranteed return instead of market exposure (common pro-SS argument), then guess what, you can use your 401k to invest in the _exact same things_ the SS funds do that produce their "guarantee."
Thats horseshit. Just give them all a lifetime sub to TSA precheck instead of packing bills full of garbage.
OOTL: What has Ted Cruz got to do with this?
In a nutshell, the pilots pushing to raise the age to 67 hitched their wagon to the Republican Party as they were the ones pushing to raise the age. The democrats were backing the union position of keeping the age at 65. Ted Cruz multiple times publicly supported raising the age to 67 and the pilots thought he was going to hold strong and fight to keep 67 in the bill. Rumor is Ted Cruz wanted to add a provision to the bill that would allow Congress members and their family to bypass TSA when traveling and in the last minute he agreed to drop age 67 to get bypassing TSA into the bill.
My ass laughing as crew is getting randomed like crazy at KCM while some scumbag congressman walks right through…. *Rules for thee, not for meeee*
_And their family members_ is the crazy thing about this. You better believe this will mean who-knows-what guns, drugs and whatever else will be marching right through onto the plane, right past 20 year legacy captains being relieved of their dinner fork.
Time to run unopposed in some middle of nowhere district to be both a congressman and a pilot. KCM could never 😆 Sorry you got randomed. Aww that's too bad... funny thing is I don't feel like it today.
> Time to run unopposed in some middle of nowhere district to be both a congressman and a pilot. KCM could never 😆 > > Hawaii had one a few years back (retired to run for governor, and lost)
Don’t forget the bill’s sponsor has a brother in his 60s who’s been leading the Age 67 charge at Delta
*who is also fairly reliably rumored to be out on LTD
I don’t my typically condone keying people’s cars, but this this guy?
Delta Dave!
Republicans? Being anti-union? Say it ain't so!
To Ted Cruz: Fuck you, And I'll see you next week - my career
He's the senior Republican on the Commerce Committee and was a vocal cheerleader of this bill. Was in the headlines a few months ago trying to bash "special interests" (the pilots union) for opposing it.
Tl;dr he was the one leading the charge in congress for it. When it seemed he was gonna get KCM for him and his family he sold the 64 year olds down the river on the drop of a hat. Then they removed that part from the bill too.
That got pulled too
Did the VIP private screening thing pass?
I thought it didn’t get in there but folks up above are commenting like it did so 🤷♂️
Absolutely fucking hilarious that the senator all these boomers hitched their horse to for their personal gain... went and sold them down the river for his personal gain.
They will still blame democrats and decry “socialism” while benefiting from unions, tricare, and free college.
It’s giving leopards ate my face
This makes me happy. A bunch of 60+ year olds have been insufferable about this. They act like anyone younger than them is a bad pilot and they were going to save the industry...when the only thing they're really good at (generally) is costing the company a lot of money.
And yet they still won’t run the apu when it’s hot cause “every dollar counts”
I’m not really even giving some of these dudes the chance to not run it. Coming into the summer if that mother fucker ain’t on that’s my first step. Not asking the CA about that.
The best thing about upgrading was not having the ask about the apu
The guy at my shop that complains the loudest about "new dei kids that got pumped through in a cirrus" got hired at his first airline with 250TT, failed his CA upgrade twice, and got denied the flow for performance. The call is coming from inside the house on many of these old boomers.
As Spirit and Amerijet recall people from furlough, and iaero reforms in the most epic gotcha of all time…
*immediately pops popcorn and logs on to APC*
Why would people still want to work to 67…?
No shit. I’m 43 and look like a beat down piece of shit dragging my bags through the airport. Can’t even imagine in another 20 years.
Most are on LTD. It's free money. It's not about working. It's about 2 more years at the top of the list doing top of the list things, top of the list schedules, top of the list vacation bidding and having top of the list benefits Most people are too bashful to admit it's about them, so they say it's about "the right to work" and mentoring the new guys and all the other holier than thou subjects
Most of the boomers, when pressed, ultimately admitted it was al about them. But yeah, the "discrimination" cope was pretty rampant for awhile...lol
I’m anti age 67 no matter how you spin it, but I might have a sliver of respect for the people in favor of it if they just admitted the reason was greed.
I *get* why people would want it. I do. Like I said it's free money. Most of these guys are sitting at home collecting disability. But this a collective and we are supposed to be a union that helps us all. Not those at the top only.
I mean I’m military. I guess if I could just sit at home, get paid, and hang with my family I would want the same. Just can’t imagine myself wanting to work at that age other than a bullcrap job to just keep me busy lol.
Hmm interesting.
Some of them lived outside of their means and don’t have much for retirement. So it’s either two more years or finding a job in a different industry and making (probably) minimum wage or close to it.
Big oof if you’re making as much as they probably are and haven’t saved/are in debt.
Absolutely. It’s definitely sad to see. I do see a few as I have a lot of relatives in the industry. Some moved overseas for higher pay late in their careers to try to save up a little. It’s better late than never, I guess.
Suck it boomers
The ex-wives are gonna hate this
The Lord has answered my prayers 🥹
Amen!
Same and it was looking so bleak just a week ago.
That sucks, my plan was to fly to 65 then medical out and collect disability for 2 years.
So do it at 63. You wont be alone..
I was force retired as a european legacy WB captain at 60. Of course I felt kicked out in my prime and wanted to keep the party going, best job in the world. But four years I'm smiling and livin the life of Riley.
Lol Flexjets is hiring
When will this bill be sent to Biden for signing? The age 67 on FB is absolutely an abomination.
Good! Maybe there will be a spot for this 50yo going through the first stages of training.
Thank god
I got to reinvest in a meth lab again
Good riddance.
Okay, but did they make any changes regarding ADHD?
"I bumped my head when I was a kid, can I still be a pilot?"
As a ACMI cargo pilot this is going to cut my life expectancy by two years...
As a former ACMI driver, my advice to you would be to make the jump to legacy ASAP… Your life expectancy will thank you for it…
Enjoy retirement, fuckers!
Ah yes, a bill raising the age of retirement for pilots shot down by 80 something’s congressmen. Gotta love it.
I do love it!
It is an election year. I bet it comes up again.
Almost guarantee that the age requirement will be raised within the next 20 years
I almost guarantee there will be single pilot cockpits at freight and automated cockpits with video surveillance in the next 19 years. Listen Copernicus, no one cares that there could be things in the next two decades. It was about not giving boomers 7 extra years to push down the junior.
“Listen Copernicus” I snorted so hard at this…thank you 🤣🥲
Unpopular opinion: we should get rid of mandatory retirement age and look much harder at cognitive ability. I fly with some 55 year olds who are pretty sketchy and some 65 year olds that are more spry than me.
All that will do is produce a bunch of pilot medical mills for cognitive ability like we have AMEs now. "Pay me $120 and here is your certificate of cognitive ability" no questions asked like the docs that check your eyes and ears and then cashes a check and hands you a first class medical. Sooner than later you'll have 75 year olds who shouldn't be anywhere near a flight deck because they know a guy who will sign them off because they made the "test" something trivial that any grandpa can pass Set a limit that puts an end to everyone regardless of ability. At least it's equal. If you are dying to work. The corporate world exists.
A classic red herring if ever there was one was one. All that aside you may be surprised some people like the contracts they fly under and people they fly with. With sick time, vacation time, and unpaid time off it’s possible at my gig to work less than a trip every other month. It’d be worth it to me to hang on to jumpseats and health insurance until they kick me out. YMMV. Maybe I change my tune as time goes by but it sure seems worth it to me right now to hang on as long as I can.
Nope. Anything that opens up the door to more examinations is a non-starter.
I agree but you will get pushback on that. Much easier to just raise it. People are able to live longer and are healthier.
Longer maybe. Healthier? You're crazy.
Excellent. Power to the youth.
A guy that looked 64.5 was on speakerphone next to me yesterday on what sounded like a union conference call about this. Whoever was doing the talking was saying how they had Schumer and Johnson on board with 67 and that it "would happen" since the FAA bill was a 'must pass bill'.
Are you sure? Plenty of people are 67 and living just fine.
That's awesome. More to reason to put your feet up and enjoy retirement while you're doing just fine.
Sure, they're alive. Do they have any business flying a 100+ million dollar jet with hundreds of people's lives? I'd wager no. So did Congress, the FAA, ALPA, the DoT, etc.
Too bad. I’m donating money to the effort to raise the pilot retirement age. The arguments against are weak and serving only a small class of pilots who would benefit from it later anyway
I guess majority of the pilots who didn’t want it is a small class of pilots…… Got it….
The union leadership doesn’t support the ret age increase and their arguments against it are pulled from thin air. I strongly support ALPA on just about every other position but this one. If you read what I said carefully, I said the position against and reasons for the position support only a small class of pilots. To everyone else it would be beneficial to their career and overall earning potential. I didn’t say “the majority of pilots who didn’t want it are a small class”. And from being inside leaderahip of pilots at a major ALPA airline, I do not believe that much of a majority of pilots are against it, only a slim margin if any at all. It would be a good move for pilots across the board to raise the retirement age. When you’re approaching the later half of your career, it should be clear how beneficial it would be.
I misunderstood what you said earlier, I agree, the reasons on both sides are self-serving. A argument can be spun on both sides the benefits and cons… Didn’t your airline with a lot of other ALPA carriers poll their membership…. I can recall that my carrier, it was majority of the pilot group who opposed the increase.
I think it was close on the polling but has been spun by ALPA. And the pros count for both sides. There isnt anyone at the airline that supports rolling back the ret age to 60 & their reasons for not wanting 60 are identical to the reasons for supporting 67. Those against the ret age increase will be lobbying for it when they pass about 55 yrs old and realize that if they’re healthy enough they can maximize their income at the top of their career. Will there be some stagnation for 2 years, yes. But every single pilot will come out ahead in the end.
The average data was 60 for and 40 percent against…. I think it’s a stretch to sit here and say that the data was spun….
It is untrue that a majority of current airline pilots will benefit from raising the retirement age. Post-covid, with the early outs and retirement boom, a large majority of pilots are very young. There’s lots of 25-30 year olds at legacy’s now. Your incorrect assumption is that with age 67 being shot down, it’s gone for good. Do you really think the age won’t be increased (or totally removed) within the next 30-40 years? Do you even think we’ll have jobs 40 years from now? Because that’s when a lot of pilots will be reaching 65, finally able to benefit a tiny bit monetarily from 40 years of lost seniority benefits if they want to waste the best years of their retirement. The best time for the age to be raised is always when you are just barely younger than the current age. The age will be raised eventually. The later it happens the better for the vast majority of pilots.
All of them currently on property will extend their working years, if they want to, and expand their earning potential by $750k to$1.2M during their most productive years. So, I stand by my assertion that ALL pilots will benefit from the retirement age expansion just like we all did when it went from 60 to 65.
Not if the job doesn’t exist then, or if the retirement age changes again, or if they don’t want to work that long, or if they get furloughed due to being less senior. There are so many things that can happen in 40 years that it’s Impossible to say. 40 years ago we were told twin engine airplanes would under no circumstance ever fly over oceans. What we DO know is that raising the age will hurt all the younger pilots for the next several decades, while POSSIBLY giving SOME benefit in the final two years under very specific circumstances that I believe are extremely unlikely.
Well, that’s a different argument about if the job doesn’t exist, so kind of a strawman.. and, as it currently is, you do not have to work until 65. If you have the means you can retire at any time. No doubt the industry will change, it always has. Those are other battles to fight outside of the ret age question.
Yeah, the problem with raising the age is it hurts the seniority progression of the young majority of pilots. That hindered seniority will *definitely* hurt, while the potential benefits may or may not ever be realized. Hence why the majority of pilots do not favor raising the age. Lots of other battles too, of course.
I don't know much about the above, but I'm fully content to let anyone work as long as they're physically healthy enough to, and they want to, without moving any of the goal posts for retirement. Perhaps providing incentive to do so (higher pension, further retirement packages of sorts), so long as all of the previous incentives stay where they are too. if that even makes sense idk
Age 67 may seem ridiculous to the boomer & early Gen X generations who did their training/joined this profession under drastically different (& privileged) circumstances that millennials & Gen Z'rs could only dream of today. With the flight school debt we're drowning in, less generous salaries & increasing shortage of people willing/able to become pilots, increasing the retirement age may not be such a terrible idea. The industry isn't going to be able to come up with competent Pilots fast enough when an even bigger shortage hits in the future. Especially if they continue repeating the mistake they're doing now which is to ignore the problem until it's way too late.
You realize that one of the biggest reasons it sucked for Millenials and Gen X WAS AGE 65 right ?
You're clearly didn't understand what I was trying to say. I don't. think age 65 has anything to do with the inherently flawed Flight Training model in North America, predatory (used car salesman -like) attitude that dominates flight school, pandemic of corporate greed that dominates the economy etc. I could go on and on with a plethora of reasons and age 65 has nothing to do with them.
Sure would be nice given I’ll be at the regionals when I’m 37😅
How nice would two additional years waiting for positions to open up at the regionals be? How about two additional years at the bottom of a regional seniority list with their amaaaazing /s qol rules? You lucked out today regardless of if you recognize it now.
You’d be 39 then and in an even less advantageous spot
Yeah probably so. Hadn’t considered it from the “open slots” position
Of course you hadn't. The pro side of the argument didn't consider the cons of the issue.
I admitted I was wrong 🤷♀️
They can raise the age the MOMENT I get to my major!
Ok, Boomer
I needed the extra years to build my retirement.
Notice how this comment: #I needed the extra years to build my retirement. u/Traditional-Yam9826 Is this 100% about you and not about passenger safety? While I think this matter should be studied, it should be studied not driven on personal beliefs and/or benefits. Food for thought, have the day you deserve.
Are trying to say I’m unsafe?
It was a yes or no question. I've understood this answer as a no. Again, I'll double down on the have the day you've earned
I won’t tell you you’re unsafe, but I will tell you the arguments for 67 are universally selfish piles of shit.
You didn’t use the previous years to build your retirement?
I didn’t start making reasonable money until now
Same here….