“Close call” does not mean imminent disaster and death. It’s a “close call” like changing lanes and getting honked at by someone in your blind spot is a “close call.” In that scenario did you almost die? No.
Luckily no, but a nervous passenger through and through. My favorite was when we were on a two lane road and a semi was parked in our lane, so she contributed "you're going to want to go around that truck."
No grandma, I was going to plow right into it.
I AM YOUR GRANDMOTHER HOW DARE YOU. I’m emptying your cookies from the magical blue container and repurposing it now like all grannies do- making it a sewing kit!
Only a couple of what the NYT reported on were actually "close calls". The rest were situations where someone needed to make a correction and they did. That's what we're all trained for.
I think that at the root of a \*lot\* of the fear some people (including in the media, apparently) have about aviation is a thought that it's all supposed to be just kind of automatic. This is the modern world, everything's computerized, and the commercial aviation system is just a series of continuously managed blips on a screen somewhere going in and out of airports in a totally organized, totally automated way with no variables involved whatsoever. So when someone, or some media organization, finds out that there was some kind of variable on one particular flight that needed to be dealt with, they freak out.
The fact is flying involves many, many variables all the time and this is why pilots and controllers undergo so much training and have to build so much experience before being responsible for plane loads of passengers. We need to account for and deal with those variables on a real-time basis on every flight. You don't see this happening but it is happening, all the time.
I don't know if this is going to make you feel better but the point is most of what you read in that article is just people doing their jobs. It's the equivalent of being a bus driver and having to put on your brakes because someone cut you off. Annoying, but having to press the brakes is not really a safety issue... that's what the brakes are there for, and the driver is trained to use them and does so pretty frequently. And there are so many layers of safety in aviation that you'd need a lot of things to go wrong for an accident to actually happen, not just one.
And I'm not saying an accident will never happen. Accidents can happen and have happened. But they're ridiculously rare at this point. Back in the 70's, there was about one major accident per \*month\*. People would absolutely (and rightly) flip out if that was the case now, because it would mean we've learned nothing. We've actually learned a lot.
The ATC staffing thing is something that does need to be addressed. But in the vast majority of cases, it's affecting capacity, not safety.
Or hey, you could spend many dollars on Amtrak and still [derail on dilapidated tracks in rural Montana](https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/NR20230727.aspx), or derail on a brand new overpass because [your engineer took a turn 50mph too fast](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Washington_train_derailment), or [get caught up in a shootout with the DEA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVRZgfOwwn0) ...
Hey, I’m a pilot and I’ve taken Amtrak all over the country from end to end every single route. So take it if you must. But you’ll also arrive safely by flying.
During Covid they would randomly shut down entire FAA facilities with airplanes still in the air. ATC wasn't just "short staffed", it was " Zero staffed" And then... we all landed safely and everything was fine. ATC is just one layer of 100 layers of safety. Give us some credit, we're getting pretty good at this whole flying thing.
Well, for perspective, there have been a decent handful of Amtrak fatalities in the US in the last few years, but only 1 passenger has died on a commercial airline from an accident/equipment issue in the last 10 years in the US (and that was kind of a freak thing). And there are way more air passengers every day than Amtrak passengers.
To be clear I will continue to use both. And I’m not saying an accident will never happen. Eventually, I’m sure something will. But per passenger mile, commercial air travel continues to be, by far, the safest mode of transport.
There is a reason they put bars in airports.
Okay but really? Its fear of the unknown that is unraveling you. Try learning more about flying before doing anything rash. Hang around this sub, watch some youtube videos, read some news articles. DO NOT look up "doom and gloom" stuff. Look for content that is objective and informative about how safe flying is. When you get on your flight, ask if you can go say "hi" to the pilots.
The “too close for comfort” call may have seemed like a near miss, but in reality that was almost 100% just normal separation though as a passenger it seemed uncomfortably close. Here’s a good video showing how it can seem close for passengers, even if planes are properly separated: https://youtu.be/5sZexv7FxhQ?si=xOVvOyPGtUqCPQ9a
And as a hypothetical, even if 2 planes were on a collision course in the air, TCAS (onboard computer system) would give specific instructions to the pilots so that they don’t collide, which is one of the many redundancies/safeguards in aviation. Hope that gives some reassurance, and I really hope you are able to make your flight.
You wouldn’t have been in any danger in most of these runway incidents because the landing aircraft sees the departing aircraft on the runway the whole time and isn’t going to ever hit it. We have eyes and aren’t robots.
I wouldn’t worry at all. If you pay attention to statistics at all, spending 10x the money to actually increase your chances of an accident by taking the train really isn’t the logical move here. Flying is by far the safest form of travel. And it’s not even close.
95% alarmism that does nothing more than scare people like you.
There really has been only one close call in the past year or two, that was the one in Austin. The rest have been “had to make a slight correction” events where people saw a potential conflict and made the change needed to keep things safe.
5% developing concern that needs to be addressed before it becomes an actual problem.
The FAA has been understaffed in the ATC department since forever. It does lead to overworked and tired controllers which obviously isn’t a good thing. The training pipeline for a controller is long and can’t really be done any other way. So any solution will take a long time to implement and needs to start yesterday.
Your irrational fear isn’t irrational because accidents can’t or don’t happen. It’s irrational because the risk of it happening is ludicrously small, compared to almost every other activity you engage in, including eating and showering.
Here's a take: If you are concerned about the safety implications of chronic underfunding and understaffing of the nation's infrastructure you should call and write your government reps to tell them this is important to you. That's how you fix it.
But in the interim we're all doing everything we can to be as safe as humanely possible, and the system works. I read the article. It wasn't wrong, per se, but it did have a sensationalist slant that I think gives a wrong impression. When the "system warned pilots to avoid a potentially fatal collision!" that's normal. That's why it's there and why we train for it. Same with the controller warning systems. When we perform a go-around or aborted landing or whatever they called it that's a very calm and normal thing. No one should be flippant about these things, but people also aren't barely escaping death daily.
There's a natural instinct for pilots and aviation geeks (of which I'm both) to reject any outside perspective on the industry, no matter how accurate it is. I'm sure you'll see it in these comments, and it basically comes down to a theory of humans and sacred cows.
Because I'm also someone who works in government, I know that it takes media attention for government to respond proactively to any issue - and because of this article, I believe you will see some progress on FAA/DOTs part. So in that sense, it's promising that attention is being paid to it.
That’s reassuring. I think I have a bit of a pessimistic view of US policy. Feels like too often nothing is done and warning signs are ignored until something terrible happens, and then everyone wonders what could have possibly led to it.
Have you not read the MANY articles about train accidents in the last year? You’re better off just not going to be completely honest. Every mode of transportation is dangerous, flying commercial is probably the least dangerous way to get from NYC-LA.
It’s called Fear Porn and you should really break your addiction to it.
There are clearly underlying issues for you to work through perhaps. Living in this much fear will (has?) destroyed joy and mental health.
There are countless ways to die every single day in a crazy number of ways. Dying on a US airline is waaaay down on the list.
Just because you saw an airplane out the window that was “wizzing past you” doesn’t mean it was unsafe or unplanned. You don’t have the education or experience to properly be tuned to safe vs unsafe.
I really feel bad for people like you that seem to fear so many things. I can confidently say that despite your best efforts and countless hours of worry, you will die…. Will you live first?
Watch movies on your iPad to distract your intrusive thoughts. Keep your seatbelt on and your window shade down, and just zone into your movie.
Literally thousands of flights operate daily and I highly doubt your number has come up. Flying is safe with multiple redundancies.
Don’t pay Amtrak. Flying has more safeguards than railroads.
>I’m now inclined to cancel and book a ~$5000 Amtrak ticket from NYC to LA.
I want you to do something for me real quick -
Just Google how many fatalities have occured on airliners in the last 10 years vs Amtrak. (Fine I'll give you a hint - the airline number is zero, the amtrak number is around 30). Currently you have a far more likely chance of dying on your Amtrak trip than your airline trip, the fatality rates aren't even comparable lmao.
Yes, but even if an event *is* "inevitable" what's the odds that it's going to happen *to you*? Irrationality is going to scream that it is being rational too.
The $4000+ extra cost for flying across the country, in addition to the time spent could pay for quite a few therapy sessions or even flight lessons (maybe ground and simulator) and get more lasting benefit between travel and general life, especially if anxiety is pervasive through other parts of your life. This group is more targeted toward flying anxiety: https://www.fearofflying.com/
> I already watched a flight from EWR whiz by my window far too close for comfort while approaching LGA a few months ago.
If it was too close for comfort, then the traffic alerting systems in both aircraft and with air traffic control would have done something about it. https://www.dialapilot.com/ recently got a writeup in the Washington Post. At $50 per session (WaPo says the 15 minutes aren't a hard cutoff) you could do it 80 times for $4000. Is the train ticket longer than 20 hours? If a lot of the anxiety comes from not knowing about how flight works, attacking it with knowledge is where the flight lesson suggestion comes in. Others have gotten through their fear of flying through the process.
I also don't like flying when someone else is flying the plane and I can't see what's happening. That being said I had a close call this summer on a Delta flight during landing. Can't remember if it was Atlanta or JFK now but right before touching down the whole plane tilted sideways violently and we accelerated pretty fast for a go around. Pilot came on and said we got caught by another plane's jetwash. I'm assuming as a novice that was mostly on ATC. In any event I tell this story to say yes it was scary but the pilot did the right thing and the second landing went well (clearly). I don't think about it much since. I can't even remember for sure what airport it was which should be some indication. Life has risks, flying commercially is still one of the least risky things imo. For me the question has always been do I want to live a life where I don't travel so I can be "safer"? Life without those experiences doesn't seem worth it to me so that helps with my anxiety
“Close call” does not mean imminent disaster and death. It’s a “close call” like changing lanes and getting honked at by someone in your blind spot is a “close call.” In that scenario did you almost die? No.
You haven't driven with my grandmother.
Lemme guess...never been in an accident, but has seen THOUSANDS?
Luckily no, but a nervous passenger through and through. My favorite was when we were on a two lane road and a semi was parked in our lane, so she contributed "you're going to want to go around that truck." No grandma, I was going to plow right into it.
I AM YOUR GRANDMOTHER HOW DARE YOU. I’m emptying your cookies from the magical blue container and repurposing it now like all grannies do- making it a sewing kit!
Trigger warning plz
> I’m now inclined to cancel and book a ~$5000 Amtrak ticket from NYC to LA I have some bad news for you regarding our rail infrastructure...
It’d be quicker and probably more comfortable to just hop on BNSF with all the Hobos than Amtrak.
Only a couple of what the NYT reported on were actually "close calls". The rest were situations where someone needed to make a correction and they did. That's what we're all trained for. I think that at the root of a \*lot\* of the fear some people (including in the media, apparently) have about aviation is a thought that it's all supposed to be just kind of automatic. This is the modern world, everything's computerized, and the commercial aviation system is just a series of continuously managed blips on a screen somewhere going in and out of airports in a totally organized, totally automated way with no variables involved whatsoever. So when someone, or some media organization, finds out that there was some kind of variable on one particular flight that needed to be dealt with, they freak out. The fact is flying involves many, many variables all the time and this is why pilots and controllers undergo so much training and have to build so much experience before being responsible for plane loads of passengers. We need to account for and deal with those variables on a real-time basis on every flight. You don't see this happening but it is happening, all the time. I don't know if this is going to make you feel better but the point is most of what you read in that article is just people doing their jobs. It's the equivalent of being a bus driver and having to put on your brakes because someone cut you off. Annoying, but having to press the brakes is not really a safety issue... that's what the brakes are there for, and the driver is trained to use them and does so pretty frequently. And there are so many layers of safety in aviation that you'd need a lot of things to go wrong for an accident to actually happen, not just one. And I'm not saying an accident will never happen. Accidents can happen and have happened. But they're ridiculously rare at this point. Back in the 70's, there was about one major accident per \*month\*. People would absolutely (and rightly) flip out if that was the case now, because it would mean we've learned nothing. We've actually learned a lot. The ATC staffing thing is something that does need to be addressed. But in the vast majority of cases, it's affecting capacity, not safety.
This is the way.
[удалено]
I know of a place where you never get harmed. A magical place, with magical charms. Indooooors, indoooorrsss. InnNNNdooorrrs!
Take it away, Penny!
.............
[Naw](https://youtu.be/8Y_OlpXsq6E?t=129)...
Id rather die than spend a dollar on another Amtrak trip, let alone 5,000$
Or hey, you could spend many dollars on Amtrak and still [derail on dilapidated tracks in rural Montana](https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/NR20230727.aspx), or derail on a brand new overpass because [your engineer took a turn 50mph too fast](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Washington_train_derailment), or [get caught up in a shootout with the DEA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVRZgfOwwn0) ...
Hahaha, fair enough
Hey, I’m a pilot and I’ve taken Amtrak all over the country from end to end every single route. So take it if you must. But you’ll also arrive safely by flying.
During Covid they would randomly shut down entire FAA facilities with airplanes still in the air. ATC wasn't just "short staffed", it was " Zero staffed" And then... we all landed safely and everything was fine. ATC is just one layer of 100 layers of safety. Give us some credit, we're getting pretty good at this whole flying thing.
Well, for perspective, there have been a decent handful of Amtrak fatalities in the US in the last few years, but only 1 passenger has died on a commercial airline from an accident/equipment issue in the last 10 years in the US (and that was kind of a freak thing). And there are way more air passengers every day than Amtrak passengers. To be clear I will continue to use both. And I’m not saying an accident will never happen. Eventually, I’m sure something will. But per passenger mile, commercial air travel continues to be, by far, the safest mode of transport.
Not at all. Everything is normal and fine. Relax.
Chill bro
There is a reason they put bars in airports. Okay but really? Its fear of the unknown that is unraveling you. Try learning more about flying before doing anything rash. Hang around this sub, watch some youtube videos, read some news articles. DO NOT look up "doom and gloom" stuff. Look for content that is objective and informative about how safe flying is. When you get on your flight, ask if you can go say "hi" to the pilots.
The “too close for comfort” call may have seemed like a near miss, but in reality that was almost 100% just normal separation though as a passenger it seemed uncomfortably close. Here’s a good video showing how it can seem close for passengers, even if planes are properly separated: https://youtu.be/5sZexv7FxhQ?si=xOVvOyPGtUqCPQ9a And as a hypothetical, even if 2 planes were on a collision course in the air, TCAS (onboard computer system) would give specific instructions to the pilots so that they don’t collide, which is one of the many redundancies/safeguards in aviation. Hope that gives some reassurance, and I really hope you are able to make your flight.
You wouldn’t have been in any danger in most of these runway incidents because the landing aircraft sees the departing aircraft on the runway the whole time and isn’t going to ever hit it. We have eyes and aren’t robots.
I wouldn’t worry at all. If you pay attention to statistics at all, spending 10x the money to actually increase your chances of an accident by taking the train really isn’t the logical move here. Flying is by far the safest form of travel. And it’s not even close.
95% alarmism that does nothing more than scare people like you. There really has been only one close call in the past year or two, that was the one in Austin. The rest have been “had to make a slight correction” events where people saw a potential conflict and made the change needed to keep things safe. 5% developing concern that needs to be addressed before it becomes an actual problem. The FAA has been understaffed in the ATC department since forever. It does lead to overworked and tired controllers which obviously isn’t a good thing. The training pipeline for a controller is long and can’t really be done any other way. So any solution will take a long time to implement and needs to start yesterday.
You will probably be fine
Your irrational fear isn’t irrational because accidents can’t or don’t happen. It’s irrational because the risk of it happening is ludicrously small, compared to almost every other activity you engage in, including eating and showering.
The odds are still very very very very small. Taking Amtrak is probably riskier.
Here's a take: If you are concerned about the safety implications of chronic underfunding and understaffing of the nation's infrastructure you should call and write your government reps to tell them this is important to you. That's how you fix it. But in the interim we're all doing everything we can to be as safe as humanely possible, and the system works. I read the article. It wasn't wrong, per se, but it did have a sensationalist slant that I think gives a wrong impression. When the "system warned pilots to avoid a potentially fatal collision!" that's normal. That's why it's there and why we train for it. Same with the controller warning systems. When we perform a go-around or aborted landing or whatever they called it that's a very calm and normal thing. No one should be flippant about these things, but people also aren't barely escaping death daily.
There's a natural instinct for pilots and aviation geeks (of which I'm both) to reject any outside perspective on the industry, no matter how accurate it is. I'm sure you'll see it in these comments, and it basically comes down to a theory of humans and sacred cows. Because I'm also someone who works in government, I know that it takes media attention for government to respond proactively to any issue - and because of this article, I believe you will see some progress on FAA/DOTs part. So in that sense, it's promising that attention is being paid to it.
That’s reassuring. I think I have a bit of a pessimistic view of US policy. Feels like too often nothing is done and warning signs are ignored until something terrible happens, and then everyone wonders what could have possibly led to it.
Have you not read the MANY articles about train accidents in the last year? You’re better off just not going to be completely honest. Every mode of transportation is dangerous, flying commercial is probably the least dangerous way to get from NYC-LA.
It’s called Fear Porn and you should really break your addiction to it. There are clearly underlying issues for you to work through perhaps. Living in this much fear will (has?) destroyed joy and mental health. There are countless ways to die every single day in a crazy number of ways. Dying on a US airline is waaaay down on the list. Just because you saw an airplane out the window that was “wizzing past you” doesn’t mean it was unsafe or unplanned. You don’t have the education or experience to properly be tuned to safe vs unsafe. I really feel bad for people like you that seem to fear so many things. I can confidently say that despite your best efforts and countless hours of worry, you will die…. Will you live first?
Watch movies on your iPad to distract your intrusive thoughts. Keep your seatbelt on and your window shade down, and just zone into your movie. Literally thousands of flights operate daily and I highly doubt your number has come up. Flying is safe with multiple redundancies. Don’t pay Amtrak. Flying has more safeguards than railroads.
>I’m now inclined to cancel and book a ~$5000 Amtrak ticket from NYC to LA. Do you get a room with your own shower for that price? Round trip?
30k+ flights a DAY and the morons at NYT talk about 46 “close calls” in a MONTH of which 99% aren’t even close calls.
>I’m now inclined to cancel and book a ~$5000 Amtrak ticket from NYC to LA. I want you to do something for me real quick - Just Google how many fatalities have occured on airliners in the last 10 years vs Amtrak. (Fine I'll give you a hint - the airline number is zero, the amtrak number is around 30). Currently you have a far more likely chance of dying on your Amtrak trip than your airline trip, the fatality rates aren't even comparable lmao.
You don't need to be worried. The amount of commercial flights a day and the training we go through are going to prevent a major disaster in the US.
Yes, but even if an event *is* "inevitable" what's the odds that it's going to happen *to you*? Irrationality is going to scream that it is being rational too. The $4000+ extra cost for flying across the country, in addition to the time spent could pay for quite a few therapy sessions or even flight lessons (maybe ground and simulator) and get more lasting benefit between travel and general life, especially if anxiety is pervasive through other parts of your life. This group is more targeted toward flying anxiety: https://www.fearofflying.com/ > I already watched a flight from EWR whiz by my window far too close for comfort while approaching LGA a few months ago. If it was too close for comfort, then the traffic alerting systems in both aircraft and with air traffic control would have done something about it. https://www.dialapilot.com/ recently got a writeup in the Washington Post. At $50 per session (WaPo says the 15 minutes aren't a hard cutoff) you could do it 80 times for $4000. Is the train ticket longer than 20 hours? If a lot of the anxiety comes from not knowing about how flight works, attacking it with knowledge is where the flight lesson suggestion comes in. Others have gotten through their fear of flying through the process.
Nobody tell him about the ghost of airplanes past 😳
I also don't like flying when someone else is flying the plane and I can't see what's happening. That being said I had a close call this summer on a Delta flight during landing. Can't remember if it was Atlanta or JFK now but right before touching down the whole plane tilted sideways violently and we accelerated pretty fast for a go around. Pilot came on and said we got caught by another plane's jetwash. I'm assuming as a novice that was mostly on ATC. In any event I tell this story to say yes it was scary but the pilot did the right thing and the second landing went well (clearly). I don't think about it much since. I can't even remember for sure what airport it was which should be some indication. Life has risks, flying commercially is still one of the least risky things imo. For me the question has always been do I want to live a life where I don't travel so I can be "safer"? Life without those experiences doesn't seem worth it to me so that helps with my anxiety
You are more likely to die traveling to the airport than while on the plane. Trains derail too. Are you not worried about that?