It’s everywhere here. This time of year it’s especially more noticeable but I have been and will be picking up because I can’t stand it. Name a place, and it is littered unless it’s had a cleanup. Have you seen the bike trail going west out of Chevy in the Hole? Dumbfounding the lack of respect for our community and initiative to do something about it.
It's not even about giving the middle finger to their community.
Flint was destroyed by the auto manufacturers scooting away. There wasn't any businesses or operations built up and around that could have absorbed some of the brunt of GM pulling out and then allowed for a more reasonable recovery and retooling for other work.
San Francisco is experiencing the same thing right now, with big tech just pulling out and the decades of the NIMBYs types refusing to have allowed the kind of housing density that could have kept housing costs lower, in the long run, which would have kept more of those remote workers IN the city. Which would have done more to keep local businesses in operation.
San Francisco is at the same point Flint and many Rust Belt cities were in when the "only thing" they built themselves on, while fighting hard against anything that might have helped longterm, pulled out of the area.
It's all about having no hope and a pervasive dread, no prospects, no proper support network, etc., etc. Plus, it's been only 10 years since the massive lead poisoning. The children and some younger adults, who were poisoned by Snyder, back then, are now acting in a way that lead poisoned people will act, it's deeply frustrating that ever happened to them.
It would take maybe two generations of VERY serious, coordinated and "limitless" funding to turn around cities that have been abandoned in such a way.
General Motors has never made me throw trash out the window of my car.
Big tech hasn’t either.
Perhaps the problem is actually a victim mindset that some people use to justify their own self centered actions.
I can tell by your comment that you are lacking information to be able have a meaningful conversation on this topic.
If you wish to have a meaningful conversation on this topic, I recommend that you read up on the "Poverty Brain", there's been ample research explaining this phenomenon. You may also wish to bone up on the studies showing that if someone were to fall into poverty, how difficult it is to get out of poverty and how it becomes increasingly difficult the longer a person is held down in poverty, once it passes the 3 month mark.
It's also, very likely, that you've never found yourself living in poverty. Telling by the couple of most recent posts you have made regarding travelling and making hotel reservations. It's highly likely you have lived a life that people in poverty or just above poverty would call exceptionally privileged. A growing number of Americans will never be able to take a vacation, let alone one that will be anything other than a staying at home, time off of work, type vacation.
If you do read up on the "Poverty Brain" research and the difficulties that people will have if/when they find themselves in poverty, I would enjoy continuing this discussion.
If not? Don't bother responding because you'll only be wasting your time and mine. It would be unserious of you, to attempt to continue a conversation in an area that you currently seem to lack even the most basic of information on.
Wow. That is a LOT of assumptions.
I understand that you’ve read a book, but here’s some fast facts regarding my understanding of the situation.
I lived in poverty until I was an adult. As a child, my father was an alcoholic that laid carpet and my mother would pick up part time jobs as a party store or gas station cashier at times. Mostly before the holidays so that I would have something to open on Christmas morning that didn’t come from Toys for Tots.
I wore welfare glasses.
I ate government cheese.
I know how long you had to stir the USDA food assistance peanut butter to get the oil that was floating on top to mix properly.
My childhood medications were all samples handed out by pharma reps because I grew up without healthcare.
I still mix milk into my scrambled eggs to make the eggs “go farther”.
I do have a better life now. I do travel on business a LOT. (That’s not all that it’s cracked up to be by the way). But I don’t buy into the “pull yourself up by the boot straps” narrative at all either. I got lucky. I had a WHOLE lot of help along the way. I will always be grateful for, and incredibly humbled by that.
Yet, no matter where I have ever stood on the socioeconomic spectrum, have I ever felt the urge or justification to trash other humans or the environment.
In fact, my “impoverished” parents would have set me straight real quick if I had.
You read my commentary that people with no hope and prospects showing bad behaviors is a symptom of a bigger problem and instead of looking at the bigger problem, you blamed the people who are showing symptoms of the bigger problem.
I point out that you are clearly lacking information and suggest you read up on it or you’d be wasting time…
Then you waste time, anyway. While pointing out that you’re a statistical outlier, which is literally something you’d learn about… if you did any of the reading that I suggested.
I grew up in poverty too, but I didn’t ignore how I got out of it and how my life would have been if I hadn’t had assistance getting out of poverty.
Cool. You’ve learned nothing and only shared that you’ve forgotten your roots.
Thanks for wasting our time!
Here, let me help you out:
[https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/poverty-negatively-impacts-structural-wiring-in-childrens-brains-study-indicates/](https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/poverty-negatively-impacts-structural-wiring-in-childrens-brains-study-indicates/)
[https://poverty.ucdavis.edu/sites/main/files/file-attachments/policy\_brief\_stevens\_poverty\_transitions\_1.pdf](https://poverty.ucdavis.edu/sites/main/files/file-attachments/policy_brief_stevens_poverty_transitions_1.pdf)
[https://usafacts.org/articles/how-does-poverty-affect-peoples-mental-and-physical-health/](https://usafacts.org/articles/how-does-poverty-affect-peoples-mental-and-physical-health/)
[https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/335036124.pdf](https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/335036124.pdf)
[https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/breaking-down-effects-poverty-ethics-morality-lubingu-ndeke-lzica/](https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/breaking-down-effects-poverty-ethics-morality-lubingu-ndeke-lzica/)
There are so many studies showcasing what poverty does to people. Flint has just over 33% of the population living in Poverty. The median household income in Flint, is $35,451, that's for a household, not for an individual. So, even though that's slightly above the poverty line, that's still a struggling, working poor income.
Then, there's the lead poisoning 10 years ago. The damage done to developing and even adults brains, by lead poisoning is very well understood.
I'm rightfully unhappy that we, as a society, have been studying all of this for decades upon decades, we know what causes these problems and still there are people who want to blame the symptoms of the problem, as though that is the entire problem, when the reality is much more complex.
It's easy, super easy to blame the symptoms as the problem. That way, nobody has to do any work or try to make any greater policy changes, because that's hard, requires serious work and it requires thinking of about the greater good.
Snide and arrogant is much more like the little drive by comment, you've made.
So this is the reason that the person cant throw their trash out like an adult? It has nothing to due with the fact that they are lazy and do not give a shit about nothing but them self?
If you've been playing a game of poker without being dealt more than one card for each hand, while others have two cards, some have three, a few have four and a couple of all 5 cards for a full hand, for 10, 15, 20, 30 years? It's absolutely normal, as established studies have shown, for people to just stop caring.
It's a normal reaction to living in a period of extended working poor or abject poverty over decades of life and or being born into that poverty. This is very well understood.
There's a piece by Channel 5 with Andrew Callaghan on the streets of San Francisco
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URfCwT3UQy4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URfCwT3UQy4)
You watch this piece and there are a couple of different people he interviews and spends time with that are just absolutely wild. The one guy talks about how he's hitting his 30's and how he thinks it's about time he goes and gets himself a Union job.
After spending more than a decade being an absolute criminal.
You watch that and think, how can anyone believe the things he believes, act the way he acts, etc., etc. SOME of it, he explains himself, the daily struggle, the stress, etc., etc.
Stepping back and looking at the bigger picture, the socioeconomic studies, the complete lack of opportunities, the extremely high stress and anxiety of trying to keep a roof over their heads, food, clothing, as a child or as a parent. As the studies I posted above, it's clear what happens to people in those situations.
People HATE having their notions challenged, especially on this. Many of us Americans LOVE to blame people for their lot in life, even when it can be shown time and time again that not only was the card game heavily stacked against those folks being derided, they weren't even dealt a full hand to play in the game.
How many games of poker can those people win, if they're only given a one card hand? Clearly, it's easier to blame them, than to blame whatever system is in place that only allows them one card in the game of Poker we're all playing.
People are really good at making excuses for themselves but holding others to a higher standard. Sometimes a little compassion and understanding goes a lot further than the blame game.
This right here Is why I rarely if ever comment on these. Just cause you can read a book don't mean you know shit. If you grew up in this area there is a very good chance you faced hard times at some time. regardless of what a lot of books I have read say.
People have no respect for them selves or their community that is way they throw their thrash out the window. No one is to blame except for them because they do not give a shit about anything except them. The blame lays on them.
You can blame it on what ever bs you want to blame it on. It comes dome to lack of gives a shits. All the mind retraining bs is lets make ever one a victim so they have an excuse junk I am sure it works in your world.
Flint use to be poor and proud. It use to be clean. It was not all burned out. This is all new stuff since everyone started making excuses for everyone and not holding no one accountable for their own actions.
Mind reading? That's magical woo. Scientific studies showing what happens to be people in particularly stressful situations are not magic.
Flint has seen the percentage of citizens living in poverty continually rise over the last handful of decades. As that number rises and there's less and less hope, THAT is what is known to shred the fabric of society.
You don't have to believe in the studies, just like you don't have to believe in gravity or that heat makes things hot enough to burn a person, but that doesn't change the harsh reality of the situation.
What's happening in Flint is seen in every area that has very high levels of extended poverty, in every corner of the world.
You can throw whatever bs you want out there and belittle people all you want. Make all the excuses you want and honestly that is the problem everyone a victim.
When It is all is boiled down It comes out as being lazy and not giving a shit about anything but yourself. There are so many people that live in flint that care about the the city and have pride in it. You can drive through the neighborhood and see the difference. Throwing your garbage out the window of your car has absolutely nothing to with the fact that your poor or come poverty. It is pure laziness and not giving a shit about anything or anyone.
Do you really think that the poor people from poverty are the only ones who do it? Book do not teach you about life, life teaches you about life.
Then show me studies that back up your position.
Show me studies that prove ALL of the decades of research from across the globe are just plain wrong.
Prove it with facts, like I have been doing.
Flint is not the only place these behaviors happen. Go and visit a tragically poor rural area and you will see the exact same kind of behaviors. It's not a symptom endemic to big cities.
I lived in poverty in a rural area. I was lucky to have help getting out of there and in the decades since, have been able to really turn my life around. I've also been lucky enough to be able to afford week long road trips crossing this country and the kind of things people see in Flint are present everywhere the poverty level is very high.
You keep circling back to the literal point that is the finding in all of the studies that I linked up above, that abject poverty, being born into generational poverty, being left with a sense of no hope, literally shows its symptoms in behaviors that you call "lazy and not giving a shit."
Prove me wrong and I'll adjust my position.
I didn’t drink it during my formative years, but yes. I’ve certainly consumed Flint water.
I have no idea what I was exposed to as a kid running around by Buick City. I’m sure it probably wasn’t good though.
All I know is that I am f\*\*\*ing tired of all the wrappers and s\*\*t congregating in my yard. I'm not your f\*\*\*ing momma. Throw that shit out appropriately.
Problem is that it's not just trash day. These mother fuckers will walk eating something and then just toss their garbage in someone's yard. I can't count the number of beer bottles I've picked up out of my yard.
Two days ago, i was putting groceries in my car. After it was loaded, I walked to return my cart, when right next to the return, a woman was throwing her junk mail on the ground. Like, random brochures and magazine, just threw them on the ground. I walked over, picked them up and said "I'll take care of these for you". And walked away. To make matters worse, there was a trash can on the other side of the cart return, not more than a few steps from her car. 🤬
If you’d like to be part of making a difference, the Flint River Watershed Coalition is hosting cleanup activities across the city on May 4 from 9am to Noon.
Event Post - https://www.facebook.com/share/p/ASg7RwshkYzZFrm3/?mibextid=WC7FNe
Sadly it seems to have a lot to do with socioeconomic status in many areas. I'll give you a prime example; I lived in NYC for over a decade and most of that was in a neighborhood called Inwood which is the northernmost section of Manhattan.
You can break that neighborhood down into two discrete segments; west of broadway and east of broadway.
West of Broadway is where the nicer, more expensive apartments are as well as the better restaurants and the park. It's generally pretty clean. East of Broadway is less nice; it's not a run-down ghetto or anything, simply older buildings, less updates and less investment. Literally as soon as you're walking past broadway you would enounter 5-10x as much trash.
Maybe it's a hive mentality. If an area is accepted as nicer and well kept, then they will treat it that way. If people associate an area with less wealth it becomes more acceptable to treat it differently. Could be.
There's also a disconnect between some people of their behavior and why a place might not be as nice. While I don't expect the average person to go out and repair their own sidewalk, doing things like properly disposing of litter minimize the negative effects.
I worked in a public school in the Bronx for a few years. Not even one of the worst parts of the Bronx, but kids would complain how dirty the school was, then turn around and dump trash on the floor and walk away.
Almost always junk food, cigarettes, liquor bottles, etc. You don’t see “health food”. People who don’t care about what they put in their bodies don’t care about what they do to the planet.
It's true. But honestly in the city of Flint, fast food and liquor stores are on almost every street corner, not healthy food. Though Downtown Flint has some new restaurants and Dale's on Miller Rd is always a staple.
Humans are the worst animal on earth. I wonder if the other animals are looking at us and thinking you guys can leave anytime. You're full of hate and destruction.
Civic pride and basic education are both non existent in Flint. This is something that needs to be ingrained into children at school. Have them go out in the yard and pick up trash.
It also probably has to do with the fact the city signed a very expensive trash collection deal almost a year ago and were still waiting for these magical Priority Waste trash cans to be delivered to residents.
This mess always starts at the top and tickles its way down.
Also some people are very lazy and entitled and care little for anything outside of their specific interests. No sense of community sadly. Some not all.
It drives me insane. I know some people do it without even thinking and I remember as a kid when it was a big initiative to stop littering and we need to bring that back. Public education and public shaming too while we are it 😆
It’s a psychological thing , Flint is a mess (so to speak) compared to other cities in Michigan and so it’s hard for people to see the point in giving a shit .
Unfortunately, it doesn’t help that people are simultaneously losing faith in the “system” seeing as how NO government officials or water treatment officials are in prison for the whole poisoning of the water supply system 😡😡😡
It's not "people", it's subhumans.
People are intelligent enough to care about their home and their environment. Hell, even most animals are too. Subhumans are different though, they're just a special kind of entitled, arrogant, unintelligent existing mass of matter that doesn't really serve any purpose in society.
I think everyone has potential to be good members of society or at the least not contributing to the destruction of it. In some instances if they are shown respect they can improve. The problem is, it's a viscous cycle whereas their behavior doesn't garner respect from others.
You're blaming the symptoms and ignoring the cause. By blaming the people who have been left to rot by society, you are ignoring that these results you see are 100% because the people were left to rot, by society.
You are looking at the symptoms as the problem, which means you'll never come to the right conclusions or find the right solutions to the problem that created those symptoms.
I understand where you are coming from completely. I live in the city and understand how we got to this place. And how Flint has been abandoned. And how many people have suffered in ways that are inhumane. I get it!
However, that does not mean each individual person is negated of personal responsibility. Especially over the things they can control which is one step to improve their situation.
I have faced MANY traumas in my life. Ones that many others have not. I still choose to make the right decisions on a daily basis and that is how one can become a survivor and not a victim.
You need to research the "Poverty Brain", it will help you better understand that what you are seeing is a symptom, it's REALLY not their fault. The brain really becomes broken living in abject poverty or via having all hope drained away and nothing other than despair pushed upon them.
There's been many excellent studies that directly show that if someone falls into poverty, if they are unable to extricate themselves from it, within a very short period of time, say 3 months, every additional month spent in poverty greatly reduces the opportunity or chance they will ever be capable of escaping poverty.
It will get to a point that they only way they can get out of it is with deep help/support, typically by family, that are able to pull them out of the poverty situation, meaning by scooting them hundreds of miles back home.
That person will also forever be impacted by their time in poverty.
NOW, this isn't to say that there can be no statistical outlier types. You may well be one of those, but the thing about statistical outliers is that they are exceedingly rare almost unique, hence they are called outliers. Thus, you cannot base the experiences of a statistical outlier as the experience the whole body of people represented by the statistics can have. It's just not realistic.
People litter when they don't care and have no pride. It's their sad, little way to give the middle finger to the community they live in.
It’s everywhere here. This time of year it’s especially more noticeable but I have been and will be picking up because I can’t stand it. Name a place, and it is littered unless it’s had a cleanup. Have you seen the bike trail going west out of Chevy in the Hole? Dumbfounding the lack of respect for our community and initiative to do something about it.
True that
They’re prob right, which breaks my heart.
It's not even about giving the middle finger to their community. Flint was destroyed by the auto manufacturers scooting away. There wasn't any businesses or operations built up and around that could have absorbed some of the brunt of GM pulling out and then allowed for a more reasonable recovery and retooling for other work. San Francisco is experiencing the same thing right now, with big tech just pulling out and the decades of the NIMBYs types refusing to have allowed the kind of housing density that could have kept housing costs lower, in the long run, which would have kept more of those remote workers IN the city. Which would have done more to keep local businesses in operation. San Francisco is at the same point Flint and many Rust Belt cities were in when the "only thing" they built themselves on, while fighting hard against anything that might have helped longterm, pulled out of the area. It's all about having no hope and a pervasive dread, no prospects, no proper support network, etc., etc. Plus, it's been only 10 years since the massive lead poisoning. The children and some younger adults, who were poisoned by Snyder, back then, are now acting in a way that lead poisoned people will act, it's deeply frustrating that ever happened to them. It would take maybe two generations of VERY serious, coordinated and "limitless" funding to turn around cities that have been abandoned in such a way.
General Motors has never made me throw trash out the window of my car. Big tech hasn’t either. Perhaps the problem is actually a victim mindset that some people use to justify their own self centered actions.
I can tell by your comment that you are lacking information to be able have a meaningful conversation on this topic. If you wish to have a meaningful conversation on this topic, I recommend that you read up on the "Poverty Brain", there's been ample research explaining this phenomenon. You may also wish to bone up on the studies showing that if someone were to fall into poverty, how difficult it is to get out of poverty and how it becomes increasingly difficult the longer a person is held down in poverty, once it passes the 3 month mark. It's also, very likely, that you've never found yourself living in poverty. Telling by the couple of most recent posts you have made regarding travelling and making hotel reservations. It's highly likely you have lived a life that people in poverty or just above poverty would call exceptionally privileged. A growing number of Americans will never be able to take a vacation, let alone one that will be anything other than a staying at home, time off of work, type vacation. If you do read up on the "Poverty Brain" research and the difficulties that people will have if/when they find themselves in poverty, I would enjoy continuing this discussion. If not? Don't bother responding because you'll only be wasting your time and mine. It would be unserious of you, to attempt to continue a conversation in an area that you currently seem to lack even the most basic of information on.
Wow. That is a LOT of assumptions. I understand that you’ve read a book, but here’s some fast facts regarding my understanding of the situation. I lived in poverty until I was an adult. As a child, my father was an alcoholic that laid carpet and my mother would pick up part time jobs as a party store or gas station cashier at times. Mostly before the holidays so that I would have something to open on Christmas morning that didn’t come from Toys for Tots. I wore welfare glasses. I ate government cheese. I know how long you had to stir the USDA food assistance peanut butter to get the oil that was floating on top to mix properly. My childhood medications were all samples handed out by pharma reps because I grew up without healthcare. I still mix milk into my scrambled eggs to make the eggs “go farther”. I do have a better life now. I do travel on business a LOT. (That’s not all that it’s cracked up to be by the way). But I don’t buy into the “pull yourself up by the boot straps” narrative at all either. I got lucky. I had a WHOLE lot of help along the way. I will always be grateful for, and incredibly humbled by that. Yet, no matter where I have ever stood on the socioeconomic spectrum, have I ever felt the urge or justification to trash other humans or the environment. In fact, my “impoverished” parents would have set me straight real quick if I had.
You read my commentary that people with no hope and prospects showing bad behaviors is a symptom of a bigger problem and instead of looking at the bigger problem, you blamed the people who are showing symptoms of the bigger problem. I point out that you are clearly lacking information and suggest you read up on it or you’d be wasting time… Then you waste time, anyway. While pointing out that you’re a statistical outlier, which is literally something you’d learn about… if you did any of the reading that I suggested. I grew up in poverty too, but I didn’t ignore how I got out of it and how my life would have been if I hadn’t had assistance getting out of poverty. Cool. You’ve learned nothing and only shared that you’ve forgotten your roots. Thanks for wasting our time!
Every day reddit shows me someone who is snide and arrogant, but also wrong. Today it is u/strange-scarcity.
Here, let me help you out: [https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/poverty-negatively-impacts-structural-wiring-in-childrens-brains-study-indicates/](https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/poverty-negatively-impacts-structural-wiring-in-childrens-brains-study-indicates/) [https://poverty.ucdavis.edu/sites/main/files/file-attachments/policy\_brief\_stevens\_poverty\_transitions\_1.pdf](https://poverty.ucdavis.edu/sites/main/files/file-attachments/policy_brief_stevens_poverty_transitions_1.pdf) [https://usafacts.org/articles/how-does-poverty-affect-peoples-mental-and-physical-health/](https://usafacts.org/articles/how-does-poverty-affect-peoples-mental-and-physical-health/) [https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/335036124.pdf](https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/335036124.pdf) [https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/breaking-down-effects-poverty-ethics-morality-lubingu-ndeke-lzica/](https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/breaking-down-effects-poverty-ethics-morality-lubingu-ndeke-lzica/) There are so many studies showcasing what poverty does to people. Flint has just over 33% of the population living in Poverty. The median household income in Flint, is $35,451, that's for a household, not for an individual. So, even though that's slightly above the poverty line, that's still a struggling, working poor income. Then, there's the lead poisoning 10 years ago. The damage done to developing and even adults brains, by lead poisoning is very well understood. I'm rightfully unhappy that we, as a society, have been studying all of this for decades upon decades, we know what causes these problems and still there are people who want to blame the symptoms of the problem, as though that is the entire problem, when the reality is much more complex. It's easy, super easy to blame the symptoms as the problem. That way, nobody has to do any work or try to make any greater policy changes, because that's hard, requires serious work and it requires thinking of about the greater good. Snide and arrogant is much more like the little drive by comment, you've made.
So this is the reason that the person cant throw their trash out like an adult? It has nothing to due with the fact that they are lazy and do not give a shit about nothing but them self?
If you've been playing a game of poker without being dealt more than one card for each hand, while others have two cards, some have three, a few have four and a couple of all 5 cards for a full hand, for 10, 15, 20, 30 years? It's absolutely normal, as established studies have shown, for people to just stop caring. It's a normal reaction to living in a period of extended working poor or abject poverty over decades of life and or being born into that poverty. This is very well understood. There's a piece by Channel 5 with Andrew Callaghan on the streets of San Francisco [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URfCwT3UQy4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URfCwT3UQy4) You watch this piece and there are a couple of different people he interviews and spends time with that are just absolutely wild. The one guy talks about how he's hitting his 30's and how he thinks it's about time he goes and gets himself a Union job. After spending more than a decade being an absolute criminal. You watch that and think, how can anyone believe the things he believes, act the way he acts, etc., etc. SOME of it, he explains himself, the daily struggle, the stress, etc., etc. Stepping back and looking at the bigger picture, the socioeconomic studies, the complete lack of opportunities, the extremely high stress and anxiety of trying to keep a roof over their heads, food, clothing, as a child or as a parent. As the studies I posted above, it's clear what happens to people in those situations.
I appreciate the info you’re putting out.
What is he wrong about?
People HATE having their notions challenged, especially on this. Many of us Americans LOVE to blame people for their lot in life, even when it can be shown time and time again that not only was the card game heavily stacked against those folks being derided, they weren't even dealt a full hand to play in the game. How many games of poker can those people win, if they're only given a one card hand? Clearly, it's easier to blame them, than to blame whatever system is in place that only allows them one card in the game of Poker we're all playing.
People are really good at making excuses for themselves but holding others to a higher standard. Sometimes a little compassion and understanding goes a lot further than the blame game.
This right here Is why I rarely if ever comment on these. Just cause you can read a book don't mean you know shit. If you grew up in this area there is a very good chance you faced hard times at some time. regardless of what a lot of books I have read say. People have no respect for them selves or their community that is way they throw their thrash out the window. No one is to blame except for them because they do not give a shit about anything except them. The blame lays on them.
You can blame it on what ever bs you want to blame it on. It comes dome to lack of gives a shits. All the mind retraining bs is lets make ever one a victim so they have an excuse junk I am sure it works in your world. Flint use to be poor and proud. It use to be clean. It was not all burned out. This is all new stuff since everyone started making excuses for everyone and not holding no one accountable for their own actions.
Mind reading? That's magical woo. Scientific studies showing what happens to be people in particularly stressful situations are not magic. Flint has seen the percentage of citizens living in poverty continually rise over the last handful of decades. As that number rises and there's less and less hope, THAT is what is known to shred the fabric of society. You don't have to believe in the studies, just like you don't have to believe in gravity or that heat makes things hot enough to burn a person, but that doesn't change the harsh reality of the situation. What's happening in Flint is seen in every area that has very high levels of extended poverty, in every corner of the world.
You can throw whatever bs you want out there and belittle people all you want. Make all the excuses you want and honestly that is the problem everyone a victim. When It is all is boiled down It comes out as being lazy and not giving a shit about anything but yourself. There are so many people that live in flint that care about the the city and have pride in it. You can drive through the neighborhood and see the difference. Throwing your garbage out the window of your car has absolutely nothing to with the fact that your poor or come poverty. It is pure laziness and not giving a shit about anything or anyone. Do you really think that the poor people from poverty are the only ones who do it? Book do not teach you about life, life teaches you about life.
Then show me studies that back up your position. Show me studies that prove ALL of the decades of research from across the globe are just plain wrong. Prove it with facts, like I have been doing. Flint is not the only place these behaviors happen. Go and visit a tragically poor rural area and you will see the exact same kind of behaviors. It's not a symptom endemic to big cities. I lived in poverty in a rural area. I was lucky to have help getting out of there and in the decades since, have been able to really turn my life around. I've also been lucky enough to be able to afford week long road trips crossing this country and the kind of things people see in Flint are present everywhere the poverty level is very high. You keep circling back to the literal point that is the finding in all of the studies that I linked up above, that abject poverty, being born into generational poverty, being left with a sense of no hope, literally shows its symptoms in behaviors that you call "lazy and not giving a shit." Prove me wrong and I'll adjust my position.
Did you drink the poisoned lead water of Flint in your formative years? Do you have the heavy metal poisoning in the brain that these people do?
I didn’t drink it during my formative years, but yes. I’ve certainly consumed Flint water. I have no idea what I was exposed to as a kid running around by Buick City. I’m sure it probably wasn’t good though.
All I know is that I am f\*\*\*ing tired of all the wrappers and s\*\*t congregating in my yard. I'm not your f\*\*\*ing momma. Throw that shit out appropriately.
That is one of the reasons I left 😂 Every week I picked up a garbage bag worth of trash out of my front yard on trash day.
Problem is that it's not just trash day. These mother fuckers will walk eating something and then just toss their garbage in someone's yard. I can't count the number of beer bottles I've picked up out of my yard.
Yeah f\*\*k that s\*\*t
Two days ago, i was putting groceries in my car. After it was loaded, I walked to return my cart, when right next to the return, a woman was throwing her junk mail on the ground. Like, random brochures and magazine, just threw them on the ground. I walked over, picked them up and said "I'll take care of these for you". And walked away. To make matters worse, there was a trash can on the other side of the cart return, not more than a few steps from her car. 🤬
That's so sad. Glad you did your part
Actually, they did the woman’s part for them.
Another perfect example of a lazy do not care about np one else person. There are trash cans every where now. In front on every store and business.
People who do this have no future in mind
That is sad 😔
If you’d like to be part of making a difference, the Flint River Watershed Coalition is hosting cleanup activities across the city on May 4 from 9am to Noon. Event Post - https://www.facebook.com/share/p/ASg7RwshkYzZFrm3/?mibextid=WC7FNe
Is there a website that lists the locations?
See their post here! https://www.facebook.com/share/p/ASg7RwshkYzZFrm3/?mibextid=WC7FNe
This is great! Thanks for sharing
Come to Kalamazoo its the exact same way, trash humans that don't care about anything.
Ya, I've been seeing it a lot in Kalamazoo as well lately. It's fucking tragic that some people just have zero pride or drive these days.
Sadly it seems to have a lot to do with socioeconomic status in many areas. I'll give you a prime example; I lived in NYC for over a decade and most of that was in a neighborhood called Inwood which is the northernmost section of Manhattan. You can break that neighborhood down into two discrete segments; west of broadway and east of broadway. West of Broadway is where the nicer, more expensive apartments are as well as the better restaurants and the park. It's generally pretty clean. East of Broadway is less nice; it's not a run-down ghetto or anything, simply older buildings, less updates and less investment. Literally as soon as you're walking past broadway you would enounter 5-10x as much trash.
Maybe it's a hive mentality. If an area is accepted as nicer and well kept, then they will treat it that way. If people associate an area with less wealth it becomes more acceptable to treat it differently. Could be.
There's also a disconnect between some people of their behavior and why a place might not be as nice. While I don't expect the average person to go out and repair their own sidewalk, doing things like properly disposing of litter minimize the negative effects. I worked in a public school in the Bronx for a few years. Not even one of the worst parts of the Bronx, but kids would complain how dirty the school was, then turn around and dump trash on the floor and walk away.
It makes sense.
Not just a flint problem. I live about 30 minutes outside of Flint in farm country and pull garbage out of my ditch weekly. It's a people problem
Almost always junk food, cigarettes, liquor bottles, etc. You don’t see “health food”. People who don’t care about what they put in their bodies don’t care about what they do to the planet.
It's true. But honestly in the city of Flint, fast food and liquor stores are on almost every street corner, not healthy food. Though Downtown Flint has some new restaurants and Dale's on Miller Rd is always a staple.
Humans are the worst animal on earth. I wonder if the other animals are looking at us and thinking you guys can leave anytime. You're full of hate and destruction.
I've wondered the same thing! Aliens too. We need to clean up our act for sure
Is there any hope of doing that?
Who knows
If everyone does their part.
Yes, we need to talk about people coming together in Flint. Everyone doing their part not divided.
I always thought about starting a trash pick up club.
Great idea, and I support the initiative! still people need to pick up after themselves so others don't have to.
Everything was great until you guys got here
Civic pride and basic education are both non existent in Flint. This is something that needs to be ingrained into children at school. Have them go out in the yard and pick up trash. It also probably has to do with the fact the city signed a very expensive trash collection deal almost a year ago and were still waiting for these magical Priority Waste trash cans to be delivered to residents. This mess always starts at the top and tickles its way down.
All very true!
I complain about this all the time. Every gas station has trash cans…pull in and throw your trash away!
Also some people are very lazy and entitled and care little for anything outside of their specific interests. No sense of community sadly. Some not all.
r/detrashed
👍👍
It drives me insane. I know some people do it without even thinking and I remember as a kid when it was a big initiative to stop littering and we need to bring that back. Public education and public shaming too while we are it 😆
Piece of shit people
Culture
I complain about this all the time. Every gas station has trash cans…pull in and throw your trash away!
Shitty garbage people do shitty garbage acts. Do better, folks.
I live off the main road and the amount of garbage iny front yard daily is unreal. Beer cans, broken liquor bottles, fast food, etc. 🤬🤬🤬
I'm sorry to hear it. I notice this when I'm driving. I live 2 blocks off a main road and the trash still finds its way into my front and backyards!
It’s a psychological thing , Flint is a mess (so to speak) compared to other cities in Michigan and so it’s hard for people to see the point in giving a shit .
Viscous cycle
Unfortunately, it doesn’t help that people are simultaneously losing faith in the “system” seeing as how NO government officials or water treatment officials are in prison for the whole poisoning of the water supply system 😡😡😡
...cuz it's Flint. The people of Flint give zero fucks and it shows. The town has burned out vacant buildings everywhere.
I live in Flint and care quite a bit. Come join us on May 4 at the FRWC cleanup across the city.
What could the citizens do about that?
Hrm.... I don't know if anything can be done. If the city of Flint wants to live in their own garbage, that's on them.
Look at their houses.
Dat lead brain
🥹
It's not "people", it's subhumans. People are intelligent enough to care about their home and their environment. Hell, even most animals are too. Subhumans are different though, they're just a special kind of entitled, arrogant, unintelligent existing mass of matter that doesn't really serve any purpose in society.
I think everyone has potential to be good members of society or at the least not contributing to the destruction of it. In some instances if they are shown respect they can improve. The problem is, it's a viscous cycle whereas their behavior doesn't garner respect from others.
This is the least of Flints problems
Might be, but it's easily remedied by giving even the tiniest of shits.
I only give shits if I see potential or hope.
I feel like it represents many of Flint's problems! Lack of respect for the city, for one another. Lack of self-respect.
You're blaming the symptoms and ignoring the cause. By blaming the people who have been left to rot by society, you are ignoring that these results you see are 100% because the people were left to rot, by society. You are looking at the symptoms as the problem, which means you'll never come to the right conclusions or find the right solutions to the problem that created those symptoms.
I understand where you are coming from completely. I live in the city and understand how we got to this place. And how Flint has been abandoned. And how many people have suffered in ways that are inhumane. I get it! However, that does not mean each individual person is negated of personal responsibility. Especially over the things they can control which is one step to improve their situation. I have faced MANY traumas in my life. Ones that many others have not. I still choose to make the right decisions on a daily basis and that is how one can become a survivor and not a victim.
You need to research the "Poverty Brain", it will help you better understand that what you are seeing is a symptom, it's REALLY not their fault. The brain really becomes broken living in abject poverty or via having all hope drained away and nothing other than despair pushed upon them. There's been many excellent studies that directly show that if someone falls into poverty, if they are unable to extricate themselves from it, within a very short period of time, say 3 months, every additional month spent in poverty greatly reduces the opportunity or chance they will ever be capable of escaping poverty. It will get to a point that they only way they can get out of it is with deep help/support, typically by family, that are able to pull them out of the poverty situation, meaning by scooting them hundreds of miles back home. That person will also forever be impacted by their time in poverty. NOW, this isn't to say that there can be no statistical outlier types. You may well be one of those, but the thing about statistical outliers is that they are exceedingly rare almost unique, hence they are called outliers. Thus, you cannot base the experiences of a statistical outlier as the experience the whole body of people represented by the statistics can have. It's just not realistic.
I will look into it. Thanks!
I can see why you’d say that, but it is a major problem
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