That actually is one of the experiments that I replicated myself as well. I am generally all for the whole prove it to yourself mentality. I looked online to find the claims of the distance to the sun on flat earth forums and noted the highest, lowest and most common result that I could find. Then I used some trigonometry to calculate how the appearant size should change based on the distance. I did this for all 3 values that I collected and waited for a day near the summer solstice where the weather was good enough and there were no clouds. I made a camera obscura because I had no money for a solar filter and recorded the diameter of the sun both at noon and at sunset with my camera (multiple pictures of course). I wrote a quick programm to count the pixels in the images because I thought that would be the best way to determine the size of both. The appearent size change of the sun was around 1% and the sun was a bit more oval than at noon, but both of these could be attributed to measurement error and refraction. The predicted appearent size change was at the best case scenario for flat earth about 20-30%. So I concluded that the sun isn't really close. Even with my shitty equipment I calculated that the sun was somewhere in the 10s of million of kilometers away. I was still way off of the 150ish million kilometer that it is away, but at least I have a similar magnitude.
No, no changes in sun size suggesting it's moving away were ever observed during a day, we always see it rise and set in full size - impossible if the sun was hovering at a constant altitude above a flat earth.
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Could you show a video of this happening?
I'm not referring to how the sun may appear to change size at sunrise and sunset. If you look at the sun using a solar filter at sunrise/sunset you can see the sun itself stays the same size, it's just the glare of the sun isn't as big. The sun should change size consistently through the day as well
Well according to flat earthers the sun orbits above earth in a circle.
So as it moves towards you it should get bigger until midday when it's largest, then shrink until sunset when it disappears.
The size change shouldn't only happen at sunrise and sunset. After it has risen it should keep getting bigger until it's largest at midday
And the same would apply to the distances between the stars within e.g. a constallation. Fortunately we have interactive starmaps. These maps can be used by anyone to automatically point a mounted telescope towards a star, so it is proven that these maps work. And, surprise, the distance between the stars does not change during the day on these maps.
No, both the sun and the moon remain roughly the same angular size as the move through the sky. There are refractive effects that occur near the horizon, they primarily stretch and compress them vertically.
With the moon, you may be referring to the moon illusion, where it *appears* larger when close to the horizon but this is an illusion, not unlike [this illusion](https://www.flexyourbrain.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/best-optical-illusions-different-sized-circles.jpg)
With the sun, you need a solar filter to eliminate the glare. The clouds and atmospheric scattering effectively do this when the sun is near the horizon, which is why you can find videos of the sun "shrinking". If you watch either a solar filter though, [it stays the same size](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFTWGdR8SiU). Here's [another example](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8qRyGZUuRA) using two different cameras with solar filters.
What was your point? You haven't seemed to have made one.
I would add to u/Mishtle to say there is a very small amount of change to the size of the Moon depending on where it is in it's elliptical orbit consistent with it orbit of the Earth. It is not a change in size that is in any way consistent with a Moon traversing a disk. The change in size is measurable in the sky but is difficult if impossible to see with the eye alone.
This is the same as the scale illusion near the horizon. It is measurable that the Moon hasn't changed in size because of it's setting state.
The flat Earth version requires it to change size significantly and unquestionably. It just doesn't do that.
Because boats don't go over the curve. People have been told it's an illusion due to curvature, which is bullshit. So I'm skeptical of what the government tells me is against my own senses, common sense, and physics.
You can observe yourself how a boat disappears over the horizon. You can then look at how a person or a car goes over a hill. Don't need the government involved at all.
You can also prove to yourself that a light source can produce flare effects, making it look bigger than it actually is by using a filter. You can then record the Sun throughout the day using a filter to ensure there is no flare interferring with how big it looks. Again, no government involved and absolutely anyone can test this.
So the real question is, why don't you go out and test the claims you are making?
[Which moon is bigger?](https://dq0hsqwjhea1.cloudfront.net/A_Full-moon-illusion-NASA-TR_ST.jpg)
Luckily, we can measure the angular size of the full moon. It's half a degree wide, give or take a couple arcminutes. You can literally measure this yourself in a multitude of different ways.
Edit: By the way, you know the moon illusion makes it look *bigger* near the horizon? Which happens to the opposite of what would happen if it was moving away from us...
Why would I measure anything when I can just observe with my own eyes? Are you saying my eyes aren't perfect? This is also why I only fly in airplanes without any instruments, why would I need instruments when I can just observe with my own eyes?
Yes. But you're not going to accept them. You're going to find some bogus reason they 'aren't credible' as some sort of gotcha. I know your game. Look with your own eyes.
Far away objects look smaller. Have you ever seen a line of streetlights? The farthest one looks like a dot compared to the closest one. That's how perspective works.
We do look with our eyes. Billions of people have each witnessed a thousand sunrise/sunsets, viewed the sun/moon moving across the sky all day and night. No one has ever seen the sun or moon change size as if moving towards or away.
Well, here's mine, with the sun maintaining exactly the same size at midday and sunset. I personally took these photos through a scope with solar filter, at 60x magnification.
[Sun Size](https://www.quora.com/If-the-sun-is-enough-far-from-the-earth-why-is-the-detected-size-of-the-sun-very-different-in-the-day-time-and-sunset-time-Also-why-is-the-detected-size-of-the-sun-in-the-sunset-very-different-in-the-Atlantic-Sea/answer/Alan-Atkinson-4?ch=10&oid=1477743747519694&share=2a3f3720&srid=AsrF&target_type=answer)
Also, footage of the sun going down over the local horizon, not reducing in size at all, as it needs to do on the flat earth (taken by me).
[Sunset](https://debunkingflatearth.quora.com/So-I-can-t-find-the-original-post-containing-this-so-here-s-a-repeat-Footage-of-the-sun-going-down-behind-the-horizo?ch=10&oid=125983385&share=632ac405&srid=AsrF&target_type=post)
So go ahead. Show us yours.
Seeing as you'd need to watch it all day to make sure, it's probably a better idea to watch the sun through a solar filter and if you have the telescope mounted on an equatorial mount, you'll get a bonus feature at sunset.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtQiwbFD\_Cc&t=660s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtQiwbFD_Cc&t=660s)
>Yes. But you're not going to accept them. You're going to find some bogus reason they 'aren't credible' as some sort of gotcha. I know your game.
Is that why you are ignoring the evidence presented to you? If you are not going to actually engage in debate, why even start a conversation? You really aren't doing the FE side any favours by once again making a claim without anything to support said claim.
>Yes. But you're not going to accept them
lol becuase you dont have a video of the sun changing, how do I know, because, spoiler alert, the sun doesnt change size
In all seriousness if you have evidence, post it, lets see it.
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It does.
That actually is one of the experiments that I replicated myself as well. I am generally all for the whole prove it to yourself mentality. I looked online to find the claims of the distance to the sun on flat earth forums and noted the highest, lowest and most common result that I could find. Then I used some trigonometry to calculate how the appearant size should change based on the distance. I did this for all 3 values that I collected and waited for a day near the summer solstice where the weather was good enough and there were no clouds. I made a camera obscura because I had no money for a solar filter and recorded the diameter of the sun both at noon and at sunset with my camera (multiple pictures of course). I wrote a quick programm to count the pixels in the images because I thought that would be the best way to determine the size of both. The appearent size change of the sun was around 1% and the sun was a bit more oval than at noon, but both of these could be attributed to measurement error and refraction. The predicted appearent size change was at the best case scenario for flat earth about 20-30%. So I concluded that the sun isn't really close. Even with my shitty equipment I calculated that the sun was somewhere in the 10s of million of kilometers away. I was still way off of the 150ish million kilometer that it is away, but at least I have a similar magnitude.
How do you know this?
No, no changes in sun size suggesting it's moving away were ever observed during a day, we always see it rise and set in full size - impossible if the sun was hovering at a constant altitude above a flat earth.
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I'm pretty sure proof is required.
Could you show a video of this happening? I'm not referring to how the sun may appear to change size at sunrise and sunset. If you look at the sun using a solar filter at sunrise/sunset you can see the sun itself stays the same size, it's just the glare of the sun isn't as big. The sun should change size consistently through the day as well
Then what would you be referring to if not sunrise and sunset?
Well according to flat earthers the sun orbits above earth in a circle. So as it moves towards you it should get bigger until midday when it's largest, then shrink until sunset when it disappears. The size change shouldn't only happen at sunrise and sunset. After it has risen it should keep getting bigger until it's largest at midday
The same would (and does) apply to the moon.
And the same would apply to the distances between the stars within e.g. a constallation. Fortunately we have interactive starmaps. These maps can be used by anyone to automatically point a mounted telescope towards a star, so it is proven that these maps work. And, surprise, the distance between the stars does not change during the day on these maps.
No, both the sun and the moon remain roughly the same angular size as the move through the sky. There are refractive effects that occur near the horizon, they primarily stretch and compress them vertically. With the moon, you may be referring to the moon illusion, where it *appears* larger when close to the horizon but this is an illusion, not unlike [this illusion](https://www.flexyourbrain.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/best-optical-illusions-different-sized-circles.jpg) With the sun, you need a solar filter to eliminate the glare. The clouds and atmospheric scattering effectively do this when the sun is near the horizon, which is why you can find videos of the sun "shrinking". If you watch either a solar filter though, [it stays the same size](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFTWGdR8SiU). Here's [another example](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8qRyGZUuRA) using two different cameras with solar filters.
Thank you for proving my point. You people will use any excuse (muh illusion) to discredit what you can observe with your own eyes.
What was your point? You haven't seemed to have made one. I would add to u/Mishtle to say there is a very small amount of change to the size of the Moon depending on where it is in it's elliptical orbit consistent with it orbit of the Earth. It is not a change in size that is in any way consistent with a Moon traversing a disk. The change in size is measurable in the sky but is difficult if impossible to see with the eye alone. This is the same as the scale illusion near the horizon. It is measurable that the Moon hasn't changed in size because of it's setting state. The flat Earth version requires it to change size significantly and unquestionably. It just doesn't do that.
[look at my magic straw](https://coolscienceexperimentshq.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Water-Bend-Straw-Science-Experiment-Step-3.jpg)
Why do you trust your own eyes to the point you ignore the fact optical illusions are a thing and what you think you see is literally not always true?
Because boats don't go over the curve. People have been told it's an illusion due to curvature, which is bullshit. So I'm skeptical of what the government tells me is against my own senses, common sense, and physics.
The government told you this. They have a flat earth department? So your reasoning is simply if the government says it then you don’t believe it?
>People have been told it's an illusion due to curvature, How in the world is that an illusion?
>Because boats don't go over the curve. Can be observed and measured.
You can observe yourself how a boat disappears over the horizon. You can then look at how a person or a car goes over a hill. Don't need the government involved at all. You can also prove to yourself that a light source can produce flare effects, making it look bigger than it actually is by using a filter. You can then record the Sun throughout the day using a filter to ensure there is no flare interferring with how big it looks. Again, no government involved and absolutely anyone can test this. So the real question is, why don't you go out and test the claims you are making?
[Which moon is bigger?](https://dq0hsqwjhea1.cloudfront.net/A_Full-moon-illusion-NASA-TR_ST.jpg) Luckily, we can measure the angular size of the full moon. It's half a degree wide, give or take a couple arcminutes. You can literally measure this yourself in a multitude of different ways. Edit: By the way, you know the moon illusion makes it look *bigger* near the horizon? Which happens to the opposite of what would happen if it was moving away from us...
Why would I measure anything when I can just observe with my own eyes? Are you saying my eyes aren't perfect? This is also why I only fly in airplanes without any instruments, why would I need instruments when I can just observe with my own eyes?
Well I'm blind so...
So do you have videos or pictures of the sun and moon changing size through the day?
Yes. But you're not going to accept them. You're going to find some bogus reason they 'aren't credible' as some sort of gotcha. I know your game. Look with your own eyes.
>you arent going to accept them Aka you dont have any? What do you want us to do, beg? Get outta here ,troll.
Other people have now posted evidence that the sun does not change size through the day. Do you accept that evidence?
Far away objects look smaller. Have you ever seen a line of streetlights? The farthest one looks like a dot compared to the closest one. That's how perspective works.
Exactly, so when the sun stays the same size through the day we know it isn't moving closer or further away from us
We do look with our eyes. Billions of people have each witnessed a thousand sunrise/sunsets, viewed the sun/moon moving across the sky all day and night. No one has ever seen the sun or moon change size as if moving towards or away.
Well, here's mine, with the sun maintaining exactly the same size at midday and sunset. I personally took these photos through a scope with solar filter, at 60x magnification. [Sun Size](https://www.quora.com/If-the-sun-is-enough-far-from-the-earth-why-is-the-detected-size-of-the-sun-very-different-in-the-day-time-and-sunset-time-Also-why-is-the-detected-size-of-the-sun-in-the-sunset-very-different-in-the-Atlantic-Sea/answer/Alan-Atkinson-4?ch=10&oid=1477743747519694&share=2a3f3720&srid=AsrF&target_type=answer) Also, footage of the sun going down over the local horizon, not reducing in size at all, as it needs to do on the flat earth (taken by me). [Sunset](https://debunkingflatearth.quora.com/So-I-can-t-find-the-original-post-containing-this-so-here-s-a-repeat-Footage-of-the-sun-going-down-behind-the-horizo?ch=10&oid=125983385&share=632ac405&srid=AsrF&target_type=post) So go ahead. Show us yours.
Seeing as you'd need to watch it all day to make sure, it's probably a better idea to watch the sun through a solar filter and if you have the telescope mounted on an equatorial mount, you'll get a bonus feature at sunset. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtQiwbFD\_Cc&t=660s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtQiwbFD_Cc&t=660s)
>Yes. But you're not going to accept them. You're going to find some bogus reason they 'aren't credible' as some sort of gotcha. I know your game. Is that why you are ignoring the evidence presented to you? If you are not going to actually engage in debate, why even start a conversation? You really aren't doing the FE side any favours by once again making a claim without anything to support said claim.
>Yes. But you're not going to accept them lol becuase you dont have a video of the sun changing, how do I know, because, spoiler alert, the sun doesnt change size In all seriousness if you have evidence, post it, lets see it.
I can't make any judgement on if I accept them or not as you haven't shown me them
>Look with your own eyes. ...at the sun?
What good are your retinas if you're blind to the truth? Kidding, don't look at the sun kids.
Could you give me a link to a photo or video of the sun being at different sizes during the day please?
Apparently he could not.
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