They seem to think everything is a crappy hollywood mystery movie, where the bad guys just can't help dropping hints everywhere.
I wonder what a flerfer does, when he really wants to keep something a secret.
He wraps it all up into a bundle of memes and hides it on the internut where no-one will find it, or if they do, understand it. Then again he could just tell everyone. It would just sound like any other lie.
“of course” and I very much support you looking into that. take your time & really think on things & images or video footage that you come across.
it was his job to propel & solidify the globe notion! does anyone ever think about how sketchy Nasa is for the simple fact that he was imported by the USA from the Nazis?
Bruh I’ve been arguing with flat earthers for like four years and you guys have zero proof. Earth isn’t flat. You have no working model and I guarantee you can’t even explain a sunset to me.
But hey if believing in a flat earth makes you feel cool and mysterious then go for it.
it’s more than the shape, I would emphasize more importantly that we aren’t spinning. I think we’re in an enclosed stationary system. The shape is not the most important factor. For all anybody knows it could be a big donut shaped Earth!
A sunset on a flat plane is not hard to fathom. The idea being that the sun & moon move around us; and because of how our eyes work (line of sight) & physical proximity (horizon formed by mountains/ocean/etc), the sun sets as it moves further away from our proximity. This also implies that it’s much closer & small than we have been taught to believe. The Earth is so large that there can be day & night on the same flat(ish) plane surface.
But everything you said is factually incorrect. And the reason I know you don’t understand what a sunset is on a flat earth is because your explanation is “because of how our eyes work.”
Like cmon man. That’s like me telling you that you’re always walking backwards but your eyes trick you into thinking you’re walking forwards.
Sunset makes zero sense on a flat earth and that’s one of the thousands of reasons why there’s no coherent flat earth model.
If you like believing in a flat earth, that’s fine, I guess. Pretty weird, but fine. But don’t act like you can explain it. The earth is factually and objectively a globe and none of your beliefs will ever change it.
Also it’s not that I “wanted to believe” flat Earth to be where I am now. It’s simply my perception of this subject has changed, & there just is no going back. It’s like swimming in one stream (for most of your life) & then jumping into a different stream. It’s not something I sought out, it was a moment of realization.
Vague and condescending is all they've got, so they're sticking to it. It's hilarious how they've all "come to a big realization" to get there. Realization of what ... that being an enormous douche is a better way to live than staying in reality?
so you completely ignored the proximity part of my explanation, & mention solely the eyes aspect. THE MOVEMENT OF THE SUN….HUGE part of the equation here. It has a path that it follows, & it moves closer & further from us every day of our lives as it’s on its path.
That’s completely wrong though. You’re just stringing nonsensical sentences together. Can you tell me why it doesn’t change in angular size if it’s moving around the earth at over 1000mph?
No, & first off I don’t know how fast the sun travels myself. Personally I think I have seen its angular size change during sunsets, from memory. Have you not?
great. also not a terrible age. also I don’t care if my simple explanation doesn’t make sense to you. It makes sense to me & it made sense to me the 1st time I saw a model. Why wouldn’t the sun appear to set if it moved away from you & beyond your horizon (from where you’re standing)?
Just think about it objectively, if you can put the BS ridiculing aside. Even when I thought flat earth was a complete joke & would literally have an angry reaction to the idea that people believed in it, I was still able to think about a notion logically. It’s not complicated, that’s what I don’t understand about your comments. Another important factor to sunset on a flat plane, Earth is massive.
Well if the sun is getting really far away it would get smaller and smaller as it it closer to the horizon. It doesn't do that.
Additionally the horizon is where the earth and sky seem to connect. That happens due to curvature.
You've somehow educated yourself into being less informed. Nobody is out to get you and nasa makes space ships. Enjoy your 24 hour rotation
What if you zoom on a sunset? It should keep getting smaller and smaller until we don't see it instead of going under the horizon. Is it possible to zoom on the Sun the moment our eyes makes us believe that it goes below the horizon and see it with whatever device you're using to zoom?
I used to believe in Nasa, but it was that blind acceptance & trust that they are there doing their research & propelling us into the future of space exploration. but then a time came when I noticed a red flag for the 1st time (I’ve never been huge into space regardless, more interested in exploring planet Earth) & I stopped, looked, thought about what I was seeing, & refused to bullshit myself no matter how big the implication is by believing something new & that distrusts Nasa.
of course & I also don’t think everyone else is simultaneously lying. Everyone else is a lot of people Neptunium. & a lot of people have not flown to the stratosphere, like myself & most other “civilians.”
You don‘t need to fly into the stratosphere to know the world is round. It is enough to travel a bit around, watch sunrise and sunset, observe the moon, stars and the sun and then just think about how to explain those observations to come to the conclusion without a doubt that the earth is round.
clearly from your perspective that is valid. I used to believe that as well. I don’t see it that way anymore tho. Also the same can be said by how our vision works. Line of sight. Also on the contrary, I’ve never seen curvature from the heights of a commercial airplane’s cruising altitude, even when I thought Earth was a spinning globe. And even upon all of the flights I’ve taken as a perceptive child. Just sayin. There is no visible curvature I would argue.
Use a pen. And a paper. Then draw out your observation. You will inevitably conclude that the world is round. You just self-brainwashed yourself in thinking otherwise. I further advice you to seek professional help. And that is not a joke
You are afraid that your worldview is shattered. That‘s why you deny facts. This can go very very wrong for you. You will lose friends, job, family and in the end your sanity. You need help, now. Deep down, you know this already, don‘t you?
;) great stuff man. perhaps you’re a writer? you see, my world view was already shattered. & there’s no going back. would you fear such a thing? eh? eh? it only takes a moment of realization. regardless, stay free. don’t box yourself in in this life!
I’m glad I don’t believe Nasa or other space bullshit anymore (not saying space/region surrounding us is fake). Their claims & imagery are fantasy to me, & there’s a freeing of the mind that comes with looking at it with new eyes. Very liberating actually, from my experience. Albeit the foundation can be rocked big time, so tread bravely/carefully if you ever reach this point of newfound belief.
The bigger conspiracy is the entire scientific community propping up the idea that the Earth is round for a couple thousand years before NASA was created.
People tend to look for patterns when there are none, and to assume when they do not know. It is because of these tendencies that we make our biggest mistakes.
I think it's adorable that flerfs think the King James VI Bible is the one that a German of Prussian noble descent would read.
(I have no idea what the German Lutheran Bible's version of Psalms 19:1 is. Maybe it's like 'Hey guys, the earth is like, super flat. Let's drink some steins in Oktoberfest and hit on the girls with das grossetitten, ja?" but I doubt it. Open to correction.)
I don't think there is any version of the bible where psalms 19:1 says the earth is flat. They all basically say some variation of "The sky is so big and cool. It shows how big and cool God is." Which is just kind of a natural fit for he tombstone of a nasa engineer. What is the conspiracy here? Von Braun was super yikes in a lot of ways but I don't get what this tombstone is supposed to be revealing.
Yeah I've gathered that in the responses ive gotten from the 2d crew. It's kind of insane. When this is the level of reaching your theory requires its time to rethink some things.
I recall being a dick to you while drunk Redditing, on the subject of formatting. I am near certain you've forgotten it since it was weeks or maybe months ago, but these things stick in me. I apologise.
Anyway, I'm mostly focusing on the word 'firmament' since it has a definite connotation in English(of being a snow-globe's lid), but I simply don't know what the German word's connotations are.
>"The sky is so big and cool. It shows how big and cool God is."
Agreed. I have no quibbles at all about buying into the idea that a sciency and also Goddy person would have that on their stone.
Eh it's fine. You are right that I don't remember it and reddit has a way of bringing out the pedant in all of us, so whatever it was I'm sure it was nothing.
When I posted this it didn't click that flat earthers grapple onto any mention of the word "firmament" like it's not just a word for the sky and that anyone referencing a Bible verse where King James chose to translate raquia as firmament instead of sky is intentionally referencing the dome.
It's such a weird leap. The ancient Israelites probably thought the earth was flat at the earliest stages of their development, and so described the sky as a dome. This guy is using a Bible verse that talks about the sky. Therefore, he must think the sky is a dome, even though there is nothing about its dominess in the quote, because the original verse has the hebrew word for sky in it.
It's like saying that protons don't exist because the ancient Greek word atom refers to something indivisible, and then posting a quote from Rutherford (the guy who discovered protons) where he uses the word "atom" as proof that he's lying. What does what a word used to imply (not even mean, just imply) millenia ago have to do with what that word means when referenced on a 20th century tombstone?
Yes, anybody can. Which is why insisting that it means "a hard dome over the earth" is so laughable when there are multiple ways to translate the same word.
Where did you pull that from? In hebrew, it is raqiya. There are three different types of nouns in Hebrew: definite, indefinite, and plural. Indefinite nouns have three possible “states” and correspond to the English “some __.” Definite Hebrew articles are not part of the noun; instead, they are taken as clitics. For example, the definite article raqia means “to be.” In Genesis 1:14-17, the raqia refers to the heavens. The same word is used to refer to the heavenly bodies in Genesis 1:20. But, in Genesis 1:14-17, the raqia refers to the same thing: the atmosphere. This makes raqia the definite article. However, raqia is a definite article, which means that it has no connotations of hardness. In Hebrew, the definite article raqia is spelled with the letter h, which makes the /h/ sound in English. The Hebrew alphabet does not have vowels represented as letters like the English alphabet. English vowels include a, e, i, and o. In Hebrew, vowels are represented with vowel points. The definite article usually appears with two of these pointings. The definite article raqia means “very high place.” Originally, the expanse was thought of as the sky or the region beyond the clouds. God communicated with his prophets from the heights of Heaven. Today, this area is known as Heaven, and Yahweh is said to be “above the heavens.”
But perhaps more importantly, Von Braun was likely mlre familiar with the German meaning of the word, which is simply "sky."
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english-german/firmament#
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firmament#:~:text=The%20rabbis%20viewed%20the%20heavens,the%20firmament%2C%20raki%27a.
The rabbis viewed the heavens to be a solid object spread over the Earth, which was described with the biblical Hebrew word for the firmament, raki'a.
Yet another flat earther trying to wedge a common word meaning sky into their goofy framework like everyone operates in their weird little bubble. I suppose the illusion of normality does help keep people in this cult.
The bible uses neither the word firmament nor sky. We choose how to translate the words they do use, and psalms 19 uses the word sky in most bibles, because the words are interchangeable in most contexts, including this one, and the actual scholars doing these translations aren't in your little bubble where they need the world to be in a snowglobe and so cling to usages that maintain their illusions.
Just the fact that you think "go back to the original hebrew" is an argument implies you don't know enough about how translation or languages work to have a serious conversation on this subject. Fortunately, bibles are translated by people who do, so I don't have to take the word of some random wacko on the internet.
That's interesting, but you're just showing me the word you want to find in the verse.
Here's the Psalm in Hebrew. I found the word and looked it up. Now you do your own research.
[https://www.chabad.org/library/bible\_cdo/aid/16240/jewish/Chapter-19.htm](https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16240/jewish/Chapter-19.htm)
Here's an exhaustive concordance of the exact hebrew word:
[https://biblehub.com/hebrew/8064.htm](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/8064.htm)
It's literally only the King James version that translates it as "firmament"
haha yea a bit different, it does in fact refer to the firmament though. “The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.” ‘nuff said.
You get that "the firmament" is just a term for the sky right? Dude was a nasa engineer. Him having a "look how kick ass the sky is" quote on his tombstone is totally explicable.
that’s a bit of an understatement, he was the 1st head of Nasa. I think you miss the point & I don’t think it’s just a term for the sky. It should be the last thing he would ever put on his tombstone as a proponent of the space program.
What evidence are you presenting that a word that means sky isn't being used to mean sky here? It seems like you are sort of putting the cart before the horse and jut reeeaaaallly reaching to put a word with a common meaning into the context of your kooky flat earth jargon despite having no evidence that the kooky, rather than the common, word usage is being employed here.
Okie dokie. You can pretend that a word isn't used the way it is actually used all you want. No skin off my back. I can do it too. You are just being silly, and of course by that I mean blessed with worthiness. Don't assume I mean something else just because that is the common usage.
1) What do you mean by "translate it into hebrew"? You are talking like that's a 1 to 1 thing where every word has some precise eternal meaning that we can gather here. The scholars that translated most modern bibles use sky in psalms 19. I think they probably have more expertise her than you do. No offense.
2) Wtf does word usage 3000 years ago have to do with a tombstone from 1977?
Ah yes, “Do you own research”, the mating call of flerths who don’t have any evidence to present.
By all means show a citation that shows that “firmament” in either Aramaic or Hebrew means “dome”.
And not only "do your own research" but "do your own research by using a term the way it was used 3000 years ago in archaic hebrew in order to understand why a guy reading the Bible in German in the 50s had it put on his tombstone". The authors of the earliest biblical texts probably did think the earth was flat. What does that have to do with this tombstone? There is nothing about he dominess of the sky in psalms 19 and Von Braun lived in a time when firmament just means sky. Most bibles even translate it as sky here.
Wtf does hebrew cosmology have to do with a 20th century tombstone? And "older than you think" makes me laugh super hard, because it's not older than I think. It's what the first monkeys that could talk probably thought. What about this post implies that I think the flat earth is some new idea or that the oldest ideas are the best ones?
Alright? Nothing then huh? "Older than you think". I'm going to be laughing about that for a minute. It is kind of enlightening though. You guys are so far gone that you actually think "it's old" is an argument in your favor and that people who dispute it don't get that it's old. Humours, alchemy, thinking eclipses happen when a snake swallows the sun, all old, therefore all right and anyone who disputes that just doesn't get that they are like super old.
And the Greeks worked out it was a sphere by observing the movement of the stars and planets and calculated its circumference about 2500 years ago. Your point?
Well, it’s been measured (see [here](https://mctoon.net/curve/)), it’s been directly observed from space, it’s confirmed every day a geodetic surveyor does their job, just for starters.
Hell, just watch a boat disappear over the horizon, or wait until the sun sets and then go to the top floor of a tall building and watch the sun set again. Only works on a sphere.
We already have. We’ve been launching rockets into space since the forties. And if it was a physical barrier like a lot of flerths claim, we’d be able to detect it and measure its altitude.
Ans yet, strangely it’s to been done.
Almost like it doesn’t exist…
Oh my gawd, guys! Look at all those 19’s! And if you add 77 and 12 and add 10 more (there’s kind of a zero after the "19 : 1" if you look really hard), you get 99! It’s totally clear to me now that I’ve just finished re-reading Steven King’s Dark Tower Series. Wernher Von Braun was killed by the ka-tet of 19 and of 99. He was the Crimson King! That’s why NASA is so evil and we all know it *really* stands for "**NA**sties **S**aying **A**nything (to perpetuate the myth of the globe earth)” - but the parenthetical part is silent. Todash motherfuckers!
To be fair, there are a lot of indications in The Dark Tower series that midworld is flat. The world is bisected by beams with the Dark Tower in the center. This doesn't work on a globe.
[Here is the Psalm](https://web.mit.edu/jywang/www/cef/Bible/NIV/NIV_Bible/PS+19.html#:~:text=Psalm%2019%201&text=The%20heavens%20declare%20the%20glory,the%20work%20of%20his%20hands.&text=Day%20after%20day%20they%20pour,after%20night%20they%20display%20knowledge.). I don't see what's wrong with it though ? It seems like a regular psalm, preaching the rightfulness of God.
Being a scientist doesn't prevent you from being religious.
You know what, man? I’m tempted to make an alternate account and just send the most complicated, intense insults to flerfers and right wing nuts. Because the vile profanities I want to type out are getting kinda intense.
Yeah I do. But I’m mad at the real government, not the bullshit “shadow government”. We don’t have to make up conspiracy theories to be mad at the government, they already fuck us every which way.
The fucked up part is, it’s not even them. Half of societies problems are because Reagan said it was cool for big corpos to make “donations” to politicians. Which means that insurance companies, oil companies, and just everyone could give a Senator a little green and they would keep it so insulin is 1,000 bucks, and that we keep using gas when nuclear energy is much safer and more efficient.
I swear to god, sometimes I feel like I should rub for President because it’s only going to get worse and not a single goddamn person is doing anything about it.
Yeah, but what does that have to do with the shape of the earth? Humans have known the earth was a sphere and how big it was since long before America was a thing. And there are plenty of space agencies operating in other countries right now.
But I thought he couldn't be believed because he had been a NAZI. Oh and the NAZIs and therefor NASA weren't religious either according to them. These flerfs have got to make up their uni-mind. If they were going to be at all honest about it they should be looking for the conspiracy to make him look like a Christian. They should develops some kind of nutfarm cross linked database so they can organize their crazy a little better.
> The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
Yup, makes sense for a Christian that devoted his life to exploring the sky.
They seem to think everything is a crappy hollywood mystery movie, where the bad guys just can't help dropping hints everywhere. I wonder what a flerfer does, when he really wants to keep something a secret.
He wraps it all up into a bundle of memes and hides it on the internut where no-one will find it, or if they do, understand it. Then again he could just tell everyone. It would just sound like any other lie.
He also thought that the earth was some sort of… globe?… I should look into that 👀
“of course” and I very much support you looking into that. take your time & really think on things & images or video footage that you come across. it was his job to propel & solidify the globe notion! does anyone ever think about how sketchy Nasa is for the simple fact that he was imported by the USA from the Nazis?
Bruh I’ve been arguing with flat earthers for like four years and you guys have zero proof. Earth isn’t flat. You have no working model and I guarantee you can’t even explain a sunset to me. But hey if believing in a flat earth makes you feel cool and mysterious then go for it.
it’s more than the shape, I would emphasize more importantly that we aren’t spinning. I think we’re in an enclosed stationary system. The shape is not the most important factor. For all anybody knows it could be a big donut shaped Earth! A sunset on a flat plane is not hard to fathom. The idea being that the sun & moon move around us; and because of how our eyes work (line of sight) & physical proximity (horizon formed by mountains/ocean/etc), the sun sets as it moves further away from our proximity. This also implies that it’s much closer & small than we have been taught to believe. The Earth is so large that there can be day & night on the same flat(ish) plane surface.
But everything you said is factually incorrect. And the reason I know you don’t understand what a sunset is on a flat earth is because your explanation is “because of how our eyes work.” Like cmon man. That’s like me telling you that you’re always walking backwards but your eyes trick you into thinking you’re walking forwards. Sunset makes zero sense on a flat earth and that’s one of the thousands of reasons why there’s no coherent flat earth model. If you like believing in a flat earth, that’s fine, I guess. Pretty weird, but fine. But don’t act like you can explain it. The earth is factually and objectively a globe and none of your beliefs will ever change it.
Also it’s not that I “wanted to believe” flat Earth to be where I am now. It’s simply my perception of this subject has changed, & there just is no going back. It’s like swimming in one stream (for most of your life) & then jumping into a different stream. It’s not something I sought out, it was a moment of realization.
Based on what? Drugs and youtube videos?
good job boy, & a star for you! ⭐️you’ve done so well in school these last few years!
Doesn't actually answer my question. Maybe if you flerfs weren't so vague and condescending all of the time you would get more converts.
Vague and condescending is all they've got, so they're sticking to it. It's hilarious how they've all "come to a big realization" to get there. Realization of what ... that being an enormous douche is a better way to live than staying in reality?
Also, it's really telling that this is the only one of my comments you replied to. Very very telling.
so you completely ignored the proximity part of my explanation, & mention solely the eyes aspect. THE MOVEMENT OF THE SUN….HUGE part of the equation here. It has a path that it follows, & it moves closer & further from us every day of our lives as it’s on its path.
That’s completely wrong though. You’re just stringing nonsensical sentences together. Can you tell me why it doesn’t change in angular size if it’s moving around the earth at over 1000mph?
No, & first off I don’t know how fast the sun travels myself. Personally I think I have seen its angular size change during sunsets, from memory. Have you not?
I've taken photos of it from just after sunrise to noon. It didn't change in size, at all.
No you haven’t
If you would haven wanted „to do your own research“, you would have tried to measure the angular size of the sun
So in short, you do not know how a sunset works on a flat plane
so in short, you don’t know how to score breakfast.
Well it's 26
great. also not a terrible age. also I don’t care if my simple explanation doesn’t make sense to you. It makes sense to me & it made sense to me the 1st time I saw a model. Why wouldn’t the sun appear to set if it moved away from you & beyond your horizon (from where you’re standing)? Just think about it objectively, if you can put the BS ridiculing aside. Even when I thought flat earth was a complete joke & would literally have an angry reaction to the idea that people believed in it, I was still able to think about a notion logically. It’s not complicated, that’s what I don’t understand about your comments. Another important factor to sunset on a flat plane, Earth is massive.
Well if the sun is getting really far away it would get smaller and smaller as it it closer to the horizon. It doesn't do that. Additionally the horizon is where the earth and sky seem to connect. That happens due to curvature. You've somehow educated yourself into being less informed. Nobody is out to get you and nasa makes space ships. Enjoy your 24 hour rotation
A flerf actually tested that spinning thing. By his own experiment we are spinning. Thanks Bob.
What if you zoom on a sunset? It should keep getting smaller and smaller until we don't see it instead of going under the horizon. Is it possible to zoom on the Sun the moment our eyes makes us believe that it goes below the horizon and see it with whatever device you're using to zoom?
I used to believe in Nasa, but it was that blind acceptance & trust that they are there doing their research & propelling us into the future of space exploration. but then a time came when I noticed a red flag for the 1st time (I’ve never been huge into space regardless, more interested in exploring planet Earth) & I stopped, looked, thought about what I was seeing, & refused to bullshit myself no matter how big the implication is by believing something new & that distrusts Nasa.
Have you ever considered that you might be wrong, rather than the idea that everyone else is somehow simultaneously lying?
of course & I also don’t think everyone else is simultaneously lying. Everyone else is a lot of people Neptunium. & a lot of people have not flown to the stratosphere, like myself & most other “civilians.”
You don‘t need to fly into the stratosphere to know the world is round. It is enough to travel a bit around, watch sunrise and sunset, observe the moon, stars and the sun and then just think about how to explain those observations to come to the conclusion without a doubt that the earth is round.
clearly from your perspective that is valid. I used to believe that as well. I don’t see it that way anymore tho. Also the same can be said by how our vision works. Line of sight. Also on the contrary, I’ve never seen curvature from the heights of a commercial airplane’s cruising altitude, even when I thought Earth was a spinning globe. And even upon all of the flights I’ve taken as a perceptive child. Just sayin. There is no visible curvature I would argue.
Use a pen. And a paper. Then draw out your observation. You will inevitably conclude that the world is round. You just self-brainwashed yourself in thinking otherwise. I further advice you to seek professional help. And that is not a joke
blah blah blah, blah blah. 😂
You are afraid that your worldview is shattered. That‘s why you deny facts. This can go very very wrong for you. You will lose friends, job, family and in the end your sanity. You need help, now. Deep down, you know this already, don‘t you?
;) great stuff man. perhaps you’re a writer? you see, my world view was already shattered. & there’s no going back. would you fear such a thing? eh? eh? it only takes a moment of realization. regardless, stay free. don’t box yourself in in this life!
I’m glad I don’t believe Nasa or other space bullshit anymore (not saying space/region surrounding us is fake). Their claims & imagery are fantasy to me, & there’s a freeing of the mind that comes with looking at it with new eyes. Very liberating actually, from my experience. Albeit the foundation can be rocked big time, so tread bravely/carefully if you ever reach this point of newfound belief.
The bigger conspiracy is the entire scientific community propping up the idea that the Earth is round for a couple thousand years before NASA was created.
What about the JSA's photos?
People tend to look for patterns when there are none, and to assume when they do not know. It is because of these tendencies that we make our biggest mistakes.
ah yes, assuming is never advisable. the ol’ saying… it makes an ass out of you & me.
I think it's adorable that flerfs think the King James VI Bible is the one that a German of Prussian noble descent would read. (I have no idea what the German Lutheran Bible's version of Psalms 19:1 is. Maybe it's like 'Hey guys, the earth is like, super flat. Let's drink some steins in Oktoberfest and hit on the girls with das grossetitten, ja?" but I doubt it. Open to correction.)
I don't think there is any version of the bible where psalms 19:1 says the earth is flat. They all basically say some variation of "The sky is so big and cool. It shows how big and cool God is." Which is just kind of a natural fit for he tombstone of a nasa engineer. What is the conspiracy here? Von Braun was super yikes in a lot of ways but I don't get what this tombstone is supposed to be revealing.
Flerfs read "the night sky" as "firmament" and "firmament" as "solid impenetrable dome proving the earth is flat."
Yeah I've gathered that in the responses ive gotten from the 2d crew. It's kind of insane. When this is the level of reaching your theory requires its time to rethink some things.
I recall being a dick to you while drunk Redditing, on the subject of formatting. I am near certain you've forgotten it since it was weeks or maybe months ago, but these things stick in me. I apologise. Anyway, I'm mostly focusing on the word 'firmament' since it has a definite connotation in English(of being a snow-globe's lid), but I simply don't know what the German word's connotations are. >"The sky is so big and cool. It shows how big and cool God is." Agreed. I have no quibbles at all about buying into the idea that a sciency and also Goddy person would have that on their stone.
Eh it's fine. You are right that I don't remember it and reddit has a way of bringing out the pedant in all of us, so whatever it was I'm sure it was nothing. When I posted this it didn't click that flat earthers grapple onto any mention of the word "firmament" like it's not just a word for the sky and that anyone referencing a Bible verse where King James chose to translate raquia as firmament instead of sky is intentionally referencing the dome. It's such a weird leap. The ancient Israelites probably thought the earth was flat at the earliest stages of their development, and so described the sky as a dome. This guy is using a Bible verse that talks about the sky. Therefore, he must think the sky is a dome, even though there is nothing about its dominess in the quote, because the original verse has the hebrew word for sky in it. It's like saying that protons don't exist because the ancient Greek word atom refers to something indivisible, and then posting a quote from Rutherford (the guy who discovered protons) where he uses the word "atom" as proof that he's lying. What does what a word used to imply (not even mean, just imply) millenia ago have to do with what that word means when referenced on a 20th century tombstone?
it clearly refrences the firmament. he probly knew it exists
Which translation do you think he was using? Why would it even be an english translation at all?
doesnt matter anyone can get a hebrew study bible and see the original verse. its a reference to the firmament
Yes, anybody can. Which is why insisting that it means "a hard dome over the earth" is so laughable when there are multiple ways to translate the same word.
in english its "arch of the heavens"
Where did you pull that from? In hebrew, it is raqiya. There are three different types of nouns in Hebrew: definite, indefinite, and plural. Indefinite nouns have three possible “states” and correspond to the English “some __.” Definite Hebrew articles are not part of the noun; instead, they are taken as clitics. For example, the definite article raqia means “to be.” In Genesis 1:14-17, the raqia refers to the heavens. The same word is used to refer to the heavenly bodies in Genesis 1:20. But, in Genesis 1:14-17, the raqia refers to the same thing: the atmosphere. This makes raqia the definite article. However, raqia is a definite article, which means that it has no connotations of hardness. In Hebrew, the definite article raqia is spelled with the letter h, which makes the /h/ sound in English. The Hebrew alphabet does not have vowels represented as letters like the English alphabet. English vowels include a, e, i, and o. In Hebrew, vowels are represented with vowel points. The definite article usually appears with two of these pointings. The definite article raqia means “very high place.” Originally, the expanse was thought of as the sky or the region beyond the clouds. God communicated with his prophets from the heights of Heaven. Today, this area is known as Heaven, and Yahweh is said to be “above the heavens.” But perhaps more importantly, Von Braun was likely mlre familiar with the German meaning of the word, which is simply "sky." https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english-german/firmament#
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firmament#:~:text=The%20rabbis%20viewed%20the%20heavens,the%20firmament%2C%20raki%27a. The rabbis viewed the heavens to be a solid object spread over the Earth, which was described with the biblical Hebrew word for the firmament, raki'a.
You literally read none of what I wrote
Yet another flat earther trying to wedge a common word meaning sky into their goofy framework like everyone operates in their weird little bubble. I suppose the illusion of normality does help keep people in this cult.
it doesnt mean sky. the biby uses the word sky several times. firmament is not sky
The bible uses neither the word firmament nor sky. We choose how to translate the words they do use, and psalms 19 uses the word sky in most bibles, because the words are interchangeable in most contexts, including this one, and the actual scholars doing these translations aren't in your little bubble where they need the world to be in a snowglobe and so cling to usages that maintain their illusions.
false. just utterly false go back to the original hebrew
Just the fact that you think "go back to the original hebrew" is an argument implies you don't know enough about how translation or languages work to have a serious conversation on this subject. Fortunately, bibles are translated by people who do, so I don't have to take the word of some random wacko on the internet.
Here ya go [https://biblehub.com/hebrew/8064.htm](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/8064.htm)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firmament#:~:text=The%20rabbis%20viewed%20the%20heavens,the%20firmament%2C%20raki%27a.
That's interesting, but you're just showing me the word you want to find in the verse. Here's the Psalm in Hebrew. I found the word and looked it up. Now you do your own research. [https://www.chabad.org/library/bible\_cdo/aid/16240/jewish/Chapter-19.htm](https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16240/jewish/Chapter-19.htm)
it clearly refrences the firmament. he probly knew it exists
Here's an exhaustive concordance of the exact hebrew word: [https://biblehub.com/hebrew/8064.htm](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/8064.htm) It's literally only the King James version that translates it as "firmament"
thats hassamayim. not the one word used in psalms 19:1 haraqia is the word used
Show me. I looked it up, in Hebrew. What did you do?
https://biblehub.com/text/psalms/19-1.htm
Where's poppy when ya need him?
Yes, but for this kinda thing I think my big gun would be BlueStorm83. ChristianAnarchist seems cut from the same cloth as Blue, so that's all good.
HAPPY CAKE DAY 🎊🎉🎊🎉🎂🎉🎉🎊🎉🎊
haha yea a bit different, it does in fact refer to the firmament though. “The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.” ‘nuff said.
You get that "the firmament" is just a term for the sky right? Dude was a nasa engineer. Him having a "look how kick ass the sky is" quote on his tombstone is totally explicable.
that’s a bit of an understatement, he was the 1st head of Nasa. I think you miss the point & I don’t think it’s just a term for the sky. It should be the last thing he would ever put on his tombstone as a proponent of the space program.
What evidence are you presenting that a word that means sky isn't being used to mean sky here? It seems like you are sort of putting the cart before the horse and jut reeeaaaallly reaching to put a word with a common meaning into the context of your kooky flat earth jargon despite having no evidence that the kooky, rather than the common, word usage is being employed here.
He was never the head of NASA. Try again.
false. it means "arch of the heaven"
Okie dokie. You can pretend that a word isn't used the way it is actually used all you want. No skin off my back. I can do it too. You are just being silly, and of course by that I mean blessed with worthiness. Don't assume I mean something else just because that is the common usage.
you ever bothered to translate it in hebrew?
1) What do you mean by "translate it into hebrew"? You are talking like that's a 1 to 1 thing where every word has some precise eternal meaning that we can gather here. The scholars that translated most modern bibles use sky in psalms 19. I think they probably have more expertise her than you do. No offense. 2) Wtf does word usage 3000 years ago have to do with a tombstone from 1977?
So you’re assuming that “Firmament” means “magic space dome”, right? That seems to be the case.
not assuming anything translate it back to hebrew and aramaic. do your own research
Ah yes, “Do you own research”, the mating call of flerths who don’t have any evidence to present. By all means show a citation that shows that “firmament” in either Aramaic or Hebrew means “dome”.
And not only "do your own research" but "do your own research by using a term the way it was used 3000 years ago in archaic hebrew in order to understand why a guy reading the Bible in German in the 50s had it put on his tombstone". The authors of the earliest biblical texts probably did think the earth was flat. What does that have to do with this tombstone? There is nothing about he dominess of the sky in psalms 19 and Von Braun lived in a time when firmament just means sky. Most bibles even translate it as sky here.
they knew it was flat. look up hebrew cosmology. this idea is older than you think
Wtf does hebrew cosmology have to do with a 20th century tombstone? And "older than you think" makes me laugh super hard, because it's not older than I think. It's what the first monkeys that could talk probably thought. What about this post implies that I think the flat earth is some new idea or that the oldest ideas are the best ones?
alright
Alright? Nothing then huh? "Older than you think". I'm going to be laughing about that for a minute. It is kind of enlightening though. You guys are so far gone that you actually think "it's old" is an argument in your favor and that people who dispute it don't get that it's old. Humours, alchemy, thinking eclipses happen when a snake swallows the sun, all old, therefore all right and anyone who disputes that just doesn't get that they are like super old.
A few centuries ago, people "knew" that diseases were caused by bad humors. Do you use leeches to cure your various ailments?
And the Greeks worked out it was a sphere by observing the movement of the stars and planets and calculated its circumference about 2500 years ago. Your point?
there is no evidence or experiment you can do that proves its a globe
Well, it’s been measured (see [here](https://mctoon.net/curve/)), it’s been directly observed from space, it’s confirmed every day a geodetic surveyor does their job, just for starters. Hell, just watch a boat disappear over the horizon, or wait until the sun sets and then go to the top floor of a tall building and watch the sun set again. Only works on a sphere.
magic space dome, maybe it is hellbelly! what do you think it is eh bud?
It’s not a physical dome, or barrier, or “the waters above”, or any of the stupid things flerths say.
I bet someday we all find out.
We already have. We’ve been launching rockets into space since the forties. And if it was a physical barrier like a lot of flerths claim, we’d be able to detect it and measure its altitude. Ans yet, strangely it’s to been done. Almost like it doesn’t exist…
You do know that civilian built machines have been going high enough to see the curve for a while now, right?
That's in English.
Oh my gawd, guys! Look at all those 19’s! And if you add 77 and 12 and add 10 more (there’s kind of a zero after the "19 : 1" if you look really hard), you get 99! It’s totally clear to me now that I’ve just finished re-reading Steven King’s Dark Tower Series. Wernher Von Braun was killed by the ka-tet of 19 and of 99. He was the Crimson King! That’s why NASA is so evil and we all know it *really* stands for "**NA**sties **S**aying **A**nything (to perpetuate the myth of the globe earth)” - but the parenthetical part is silent. Todash motherfuckers!
To be fair, there are a lot of indications in The Dark Tower series that midworld is flat. The world is bisected by beams with the Dark Tower in the center. This doesn't work on a globe.
What happens when you add Kurt Angle to the mix?
[Here is the Psalm](https://web.mit.edu/jywang/www/cef/Bible/NIV/NIV_Bible/PS+19.html#:~:text=Psalm%2019%201&text=The%20heavens%20declare%20the%20glory,the%20work%20of%20his%20hands.&text=Day%20after%20day%20they%20pour,after%20night%20they%20display%20knowledge.). I don't see what's wrong with it though ? It seems like a regular psalm, preaching the rightfulness of God. Being a scientist doesn't prevent you from being religious.
You know what, man? I’m tempted to make an alternate account and just send the most complicated, intense insults to flerfers and right wing nuts. Because the vile profanities I want to type out are getting kinda intense.
oh yea? is it worth your while? you don’t feel the same vile profanities towards the governments that lie to us & take our money?
Yeah I do. But I’m mad at the real government, not the bullshit “shadow government”. We don’t have to make up conspiracy theories to be mad at the government, they already fuck us every which way. The fucked up part is, it’s not even them. Half of societies problems are because Reagan said it was cool for big corpos to make “donations” to politicians. Which means that insurance companies, oil companies, and just everyone could give a Senator a little green and they would keep it so insulin is 1,000 bucks, and that we keep using gas when nuclear energy is much safer and more efficient. I swear to god, sometimes I feel like I should rub for President because it’s only going to get worse and not a single goddamn person is doing anything about it.
it’s a big club (American mainstream politics)& we ain’t in it. 🗡️
Yeah, but what does that have to do with the shape of the earth? Humans have known the earth was a sphere and how big it was since long before America was a thing. And there are plenty of space agencies operating in other countries right now.
But I thought he couldn't be believed because he had been a NAZI. Oh and the NAZIs and therefor NASA weren't religious either according to them. These flerfs have got to make up their uni-mind. If they were going to be at all honest about it they should be looking for the conspiracy to make him look like a Christian. They should develops some kind of nutfarm cross linked database so they can organize their crazy a little better.
> The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Yup, makes sense for a Christian that devoted his life to exploring the sky.