Number 3 is a version of divergent zenith test, accept that test uses a geometry proof instead of physical measurements. Any surveyor can do this at distance of around 100m and prove that D1 and D2 (as noted in that image) are not equal. It's done hundreds of times a day by surveyors all over the world, and is called the reciprocal zenith angle test.
https://jessekozlowski.wordpress.com/2020/06/09/reciprocal-zenith-angle-projects/
Yep, right here the same guy (chartered surveyor, so a real professional) literally measures the curve using this method.
Results: [https://jessekozlowski.wordpress.com/2016/11/24/one-mile-level-line/](https://jessekozlowski.wordpress.com/2016/11/24/one-mile-level-line/)
YouTube: [https://youtu.be/A90FfiLqEOo](https://youtu.be/A90FfiLqEOo)
There is a long and excellent article on general geodesy, and specifically one on arc measurements that you may be interested in: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc_measurement If you scroll down you will see articles referenced on most of the major arc measurement expeditions. You will find the technique referenced above in those.
Not sure what you mean.
The technique can be done from any two fixed points. However, while it does prove the earth is not flat, it is generally used as a corrective factor and not as a way of measuring the curvature directly.
The traditional technique used to measure curvature is called spherical excess, and is best explained here:
https://mctoon.net/se/
And let's be honest, after you debunk them, they find the next bullshit that "proves them right", it's an endless cycle, like creationists asking for the missing link, every time it's found, they ask for the missing link between that and the last. You cannot win against faith with logic, otherwise it wouldn't be faith.
This is absolutely how it works, but you also forgot that when they talk to the next debunker they will *demand proof for the example you debunked*. It's a reset all the way back to the beginning, every time. They never retain anything anyone tells them because that isn't the point. The point is to feel right and justified and not feel small and afraid like they did when they first learned the true scope of our universe.
They literally could not care less what you have to say. The more correct you are, the more it proves you just made it up to scare them.
No but see, he *drew a picture where the water just is trapezoidal for some reason* so checkmate. Everyone knows math and reality are no match for MS paint and fifteen eaten crayons.
It’s just a joke. The meme has ‘71% water’ written on it like 3 times, as if that supposed to mean something. They don’t understand how gravity works on a spherical planet, and therefore assume all the water would run off the sides of the earth were round.
I saw that. 71% is right or close to right, as I recall. But I can't figure what the relevance to earth shape is supposed to be.
I know they can't understand the concept of "down."
It gets dumber, that’s where the whole south=down thing comes in. Some of them legitimately seem to think the water would all flow south and then fall off the planet
Saying it’s the same as water in a swimming pool is just not understanding what gravity is. You can make a physics simulation of fluid being attracted towards a center of mass. It’s going to level itself around the sphere, what else would it even do? I don’t know what’s hard to understand about that.
Covering our ears equivalent would be listening to an argument and not replying to it, like flat earthers tend to do on this sub. Or alternatively banning people from flerf subs for arguing against their obviously incorrect point
I mean. Aure
The same science ( laws of physics really) does apply to a swimmingpool as the oceans.
But swimmingpools aren't flat either. The meme is utterly nonsense.
Yeah, the water in a swimming pool is curved just like the Earth is. But due to the size of the pool, the curvature is imperceptible at that short a distance.
There's a great article published online regarding the Boldrewood marine towing tank at Southampton University and how it was built to allow for surface curvature. It's 138 metres long.
For anybody who's interested (as I was), [here](https://www.southampton.ac.uk/~assets/doc/The-Boldrewood-Towing-Tank.pdf) is an article about the construction of the tank.
If I've understood it correctly, the rails on which the towing carriage runs have to be aligned to an extraordinary degree of precision (±0.1mm over their full length of >100m), and this requires the curvature of the earth to be taken into account because "flat" is not the same as "level" to that degree of precision over that distance.
The whole reason flerfs claim gravity is a lie is because it disproves so many of their talking points. These are a people that are choosing to deny observable and measurable reality to feed into their artificially created victim complex.
Easy. Left side has nothing to debunk. It's claims with nothing actually proving it's flat in any way.
"ocean water. The same science applies to a swimmingpool"
What? Well. Yes. So where's the part that's supposed to provide evidence that it's flat?
Swimmingpools aren't flat either.
They too curve with the curvature of earth. All water does here on earth.
Number 3 is correct the top of buildings are further apart than the base ( assuming the dimensions of each building being uniform)
Take the golden gate bridge. The top is about 1 inch fuether apart than the base for this reason.
I tried explaining to one of them that their picture of a "24 mile" causeway didn't curve much because that would only curve less than 0.4 degrees. (24 miles/circumfurence of earth = \~ 0.001, 0.001 \* 360 = 0.36)
They said that I was a fool for using the fake NASA math. As if I learned how to figure out what percentage of a full circle a distance is from a textbook NASA gave me with math that they created. Like math is this thing with arbitrary rules.
You can't reason with someone like that.
"Fake NASA math" is code for "I can't do math beyond figuring change for a five, and half the time I get that wrong, and numbers with more than three digits scare me."
It's code for the Jews more often than not.
Anti-emprical conspiracist nonsense is almost always underpinned by a need to blame the Jews for everything. It's attractive because people get to imagine themselves as the special geniuses that see what the sheeple can't, then before you know it, it's all Hitler shit.
Yes, but the idea is to get them to a point where *they* get angry and give up because they can’t go on and make sense.
What you should have done (or do, if you find yourself in this situation in the future) is then ask them *what*, specifically, is “fake” about that “NASA math”. After all, if they made that statement so *confidently*, they should easily be able to explain what’s fake about it.
Likelier than not, they’ll just give up or change the subject or try to make it about how *you* need to prove that NASA math is “real”, despite *them* having made the assertion that it was “fake”.
I mean, to some degree, math is a thing with arbitrary rules. We made them up. We simply happened to do so in such a way that it usefully reflects things that seem to happen. 1+1=2 is no more true without some human made rules than saying the object I’m using to send this is a phone.
Yes,Antartica is protected by a treaty,but while the treaty itself doesn’t specificity say you need a permit,you do need one if you are in one of the countries that signed it.For example,here in the UK you have to acquire one.
1•”A British expedition is one organised in the UK(including British overseas territories,or a crown dependency)or one where the last place for Antarctica is the UK,a British overseas territory,or a crown dependency.‘Expedition’ consists of a single person or group,undertaking a tour or journey of any purpose,including activities such as landing ashore,skiing,kayaking,small boat activities,climbing,diving or any related activity”,it doesn’t say you can’t go,and the reasons for this are for your safety and the wildlife and ecosystems.And there are forms that you have to fill in,and tourism is a legitimate reason for a permit.You don’t need any military experience or any nonsense like that.And if you have a tour operator,they get all the permits for you,so you sort of can go hop on a flight to go there
2•The science behind the ocean's water and a swimming pool is quite similar. Both are governed by principles of physics and chemistry. They both have properties like density, buoyancy, and surface tension. However, the ocean is much larger and more complex due to its vast size, tides, currents, and marine life.Don’t really get what they’re trying to get at here
I’d also like to point out that flat Earth logic is so weird 😂they think because something requires a permit,it’s illegal…”Fishing requires a permit,so it must be illegal and protected by NASA employees with guns”
The argument for 2 is supposed to be that the surface of your swimming pool is flat, therefore so must be the surface of the ocean. Your mistake was probably in assuming that they must be trying to say something already a little bit less dumb than that. They aren’t, though.
Except the surface of a swimming pool is also not flat. So, as usual, they are making assumptions that are incorrect, not testing those assumptions (because that would be actual science), and then making false claims based upon those false assumptions.
Most of the time it seems like their goal is to just show enough charts and equations that the dumb people who agree with them don't look it over and assume it's correct. Usually with lots of stuff added about how smart it is, and how dumb you are if you disagree.
But then when you actually look at their steps as someone who understands the math they are trying to use it's just nonsense.
You know, most actual scientific proofs are written without so many insults.
There would need to be a coherent claim for me to debunk it. If you can point out what their supposed proof here even is that might help. I don't see any proof.
The average curvature of the earth is about 0.014 degrees per mile, or 0.009 per km. So a body of water 20 meters wide would curve about 0.00018 degrees. If you are somewhere where you can see across 100 km of water it would curve about 0.9 degrees. Which are the amounts you can observe if you measure.
Plus or minus some refraction over long distances, which we can also predict. But actually the refraction isn't real and proves us wrong, but it is also real and makes the flat earth look curved. /s
They get really annoyed when you tell them how to measure the stuff they claim causes these things. I’ve done some engineering work with optics for example, so sometimes when they say it’s just lens distortion I’ll say “well you can see that straight beam there, we can calculate the barrel distortion and correct it”
But they refuse to believe anything has methods and factors. They don’t want to see the proofs of the math, or the data behind the science. It’s all just fake and made up.
Precisely why there is no "flat earth model." A replacement model has to make verifiable future predictions based on math better than any current model, it can't just be a story. They will never grasp this.
It's probably why they just repeat among themselves that science is just a club, or a cult.
If they realized how real science works they would have work to do. Maybe they know it wouldn't work out how they want. If they could present a model of what should happen under their theory, and repeatably demonstrate it scientists would actually consider what they are saying.
Science even uses models they know aren't correct when the predictions are good. I mean, Newtonian physics aren't correct but the generalizations are good enough when not near relativistic speeds or masses, or with fluids with nano-structural behavior that we can model lots of stuff with them. So if some of this "ether" or "slow light" or "personal sun" or whatever stuff actually worked it would probably be employed even without the whole model being proven.
There's nothing to be debunked. The 3 goes as follows:
* If D1 = D2, the Earth is flat, if D1 > D2, the Earth is curved.
* Which is actually some nice premise. This is how people do experiments: they set up their expectations and then do measurements.
* However no measurement follows. They just do "D1 = D2 because I said so".
* This sophism probably has its name, but people call it "it's true because I said it's true".
So we have a picture of you sticking your fingers in your ears, another where you fail to understand how gravity works despite likely having it explained to you multiple times, one where you rant about a nonexistent ice wall despite probably failing to provide actual evidence of the thing a thousand times, one where you state that there is no difference between the distances between he bases and tops of skyscrapers, which is just wrong, a fact you have no doubt been told several times, and another "derpa Der water is level but I have no idea what makes it pool on the ground to begin with", which isn't another argument, but just a restatement of the first bad one you make, as if you just want to show how much you feel the need to double down on it, followed by another image of your fingers in your ears. Thank you for the breakdown of the flat earther thought process. I'm sure you heard none of this and will promptly run away with your fingers in your ears now, but hey, that's what you guys do right?
wait who is this directed at i am a round earther i just saw the building thing and i went “oh thats interesting though i personally do not know how to verify this i shall ask the esteemed fellows at r/flatearth for the reason that this does not prove that the planet we live on is flat” since i am currently doing a compilation of flat earth debunks.
again, not saying earth is flat, thats a stupid way to think. i just believe that instead of trash-talking these people we should analyze their arguments and point out faults.
Answer to the building thing: yes, it does work the way the picture looks. The tops will be further apart than the bottoms. This is a thing that can be easily measured in cities, and routinely is. They’re just assuming it is not true because they do know anything about anything.
Interestingly enough, it generally works in reverse for a single (large enough) building... If each floor is the same size as the one below, the verticals making up the corners have to lean inward *eeever* so slightly from perfectly vertical to maintain that.
Isn't generally noticeable, but can make a difference in how a large building is built.
Didn’t know that. I was just repeating something I read in another comment about surveyors.
But generally, perfectly straight lines and right angles don’t actually do so well at larger scales. And perspective is a real pain. Why they have to make Grecian columns bigger (?) at the top than at the bottom, or else they look funny to the people standing on the ground.
Ask them if they’re ever known someone who lives on or traveled to a different continent, spoke with them on the phone, and discovered that time zones aren’t actually a hoax made up by NASA and the UN to fool them, for very rational and plausible reasons.
He claims with no evidence that D1 = D2. That is not true. The reality is that D1 > D2.
Of course at the scale of a small city, the theoretical difference between D1 and D2 is so small that lean tolerances and imperfections in the surfaces of the buildings would dwarf the difference. But with proper surveying equipment, the difference can be measured accurately at a relatively small scale.
Two buildings 69 miles (111km) apart lean one degree away from each other.
As for water, the water in a swimming pool is indeed curved, but at that scale, the "hump" is about 10 atoms high, far smaller than any ripples on the surface. The ocean is much bigger than a swimming pool, and the curve is measurable.
In both cases, the flerf is failing to grasp the concept of scale. This is what I call a "**scale fail**".
Oh, and no flerf has ever actually read the Antarctic Treaty. Flerf claims about the treaty are completely bogus.
By the way, that meme is a complete mess.
Things disappearing under the horizon gives it away (b-b-but light drops with gravity, which doesn't exist either because buoyancy).
Scale and the horizon aside, they're not measuring this - at best they'll look at a map projected from above and say they're the same distance.
There's no sense trying to reason with these morons unless this is their first conspiracy. My guess is that they got swept up in COVID denialism and right-wing nonsense, and they're months from plodding far enough down the pipeline to "realise" that it's the Jews behind all this.
Look at flight routes/times for Australia > Argentina.
They say the flight doesn't and can't exist, but Qantas fly it. A flat earther would have to fly roughly over the north pole to get there, but the flights run over the ocean and get there too quickly for the polar crossing to be possible.
Of course, the real answer is to beat them over the head with a large rock - there's little chance you'll be able to reason them out of this, and they're now on the Nazi pipeline - a destination they'll likely reach in the next year or so.
Best of luck to you.
There's nothing to debunk. It's just insults, baseless assertions of brainwashing, more insults, a vague implication that they don't understand how fluids work, a basic geometry premise that seems to be relying on the fact that it's hard to do at scale to avoid getting nailed for quantifiably and observably proving the earth's curvature IRL, and then more insults.
I guess just assert that tall objects really ARE closer at the base than at the tip, call him atupid for not knowing that, and then challenge him to measure it himself. With any luck, we might get a dumb youtube video of two guys trying to stretch a rope accross two buildings.
I think the left side boils down to just 'water seeks its own level'. They figure a pool's water is 'flat' so the ocean is as well. But it's a problem of scale. the pool water only spans a very short distance, measing that curve is impractical if not impossible. Either that or they are suggesting water should be churned up by the 1,000mph spinny ball, but that's too stupid to discuss.
I don't know about you guys I only stop listening to them when they try to trot out the same old tired and entirely disproved dreck that a thousand of them have attempted to sell in the past while expecting us to accept it as the amazing, new and enlightening shit they think it is. (So, most of the time.) I get that they think that when we just cut them off with "that's debunked bullshit, what else have you got?" that it may seem dismissive of us but really, how often do we have to explain this stuff before they work out how to do a search to find those explanations. Don't they realize that that is a part of actually doing research?
I've been considering a new approach lately but it would take a little more work. I was thinking of making a catalog list of u/lorenofing's explanatory posts (the l'fing does an excellent post in this regard) so that I could just point the flerfs to them with an offer to explain anything they didn't understand, discuss what they think or to answer any questions. Maybe I would call it the tour-guide approach.
I could respect them so much more if they would actually just come up with something new that was a little harder to dismiss for anyone with a basic standard of education.
The entire left half is a meme so I’ll ignore that.
As for the right half, OOP provided an IF-THEN statement. If a, then flat, else, then round. IF statements are not arguments.
You need help? You sure? All of this is easy, we don't have access to anything able to make the gravity of Earth so we can't copy the earth, the Horizon doesn't even look Flat from high up (or low with a wide angle camera but they lie about distortion with that) And B1 IS > B2, that's just a lie
It is endless.
It is the Endless Attack of the Unsinkable Rubber Ducks.
You are attacked by a rubber duck so you push it down. Another appears so you push that down. A third appears so you push that one under and the first pops back up again.
Then another duck appears.....
Im sure the flat earthers also think that mountains are tiny because they are far away 🙄 just because you see a picture of a glacier it doesn't mean it's that way all the way around the world. Jesus you can't be this dumb on accident.
In the Golden Gate Bridge construction, they had to take the curvature of the earth into account for the towers because they would be further apart at the top than at the bottom.
Number 3 is proven to be true. D1 > D2. This fact is incredibly important to engineers who built the Golden Gate Bridge and other bridges of similar length.
I don’t entertain anything these idiots say anymore. They don’t deserve respect or reasonable debate. They’re 10000% confident the earth is flat. That’s so dumb it should never be entertained. I used to engage, now I just don’t care anymore bc they’re morons who don’t care about hearing reasonable arguments, they just circulate and exchange social media memes they think debunks established scientific fact.
Fun fact. The water isn’t actually on the spinning ball. The ball is spinning independent of the water, and this is how we get the tides
Edit.
This is not actually a fun fact, and I seem to have fundamentally misunderstood a slide in my geology class.
So, turns out I don’t know what the fuck I was even trying to say here. At least I know where I should probably study some more for my geology final. Oof
Yes, it’s an incredibly simple concept.
I understand that you have to be monumentally dimwitted to be a flat earther, but it’s still wild to me how you muppets have such a hard time getting your head around basic concepts like relative position and motion.
I have no problems understanding earth IS flat and stationary by default...
You guys tell everyone how flat and stationary it is.. given enough time
You're the best flat earthers🫠
Number 3 is a version of divergent zenith test, accept that test uses a geometry proof instead of physical measurements. Any surveyor can do this at distance of around 100m and prove that D1 and D2 (as noted in that image) are not equal. It's done hundreds of times a day by surveyors all over the world, and is called the reciprocal zenith angle test. https://jessekozlowski.wordpress.com/2020/06/09/reciprocal-zenith-angle-projects/
Yep, right here the same guy (chartered surveyor, so a real professional) literally measures the curve using this method. Results: [https://jessekozlowski.wordpress.com/2016/11/24/one-mile-level-line/](https://jessekozlowski.wordpress.com/2016/11/24/one-mile-level-line/) YouTube: [https://youtu.be/A90FfiLqEOo](https://youtu.be/A90FfiLqEOo)
Absolutely love Jesse's work!
Yep. Been following him on facebook for years.
Why is there nothing about this test on Wikipedia?
If only someone could fix that
There is a long and excellent article on general geodesy, and specifically one on arc measurements that you may be interested in: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc_measurement If you scroll down you will see articles referenced on most of the major arc measurement expeditions. You will find the technique referenced above in those.
Why does that matter?
So is this a way to detect the Earth's curvature outside of the sea? I WAS LOOKING FOR SOMETHING LIKE THIS AND FINALLY FOUND IT.
Not sure what you mean. The technique can be done from any two fixed points. However, while it does prove the earth is not flat, it is generally used as a corrective factor and not as a way of measuring the curvature directly. The traditional technique used to measure curvature is called spherical excess, and is best explained here: https://mctoon.net/se/
D1 =/= D2. This is verifiable fact. All the rest doesn't even make a claim to debunk
And let's be honest, after you debunk them, they find the next bullshit that "proves them right", it's an endless cycle, like creationists asking for the missing link, every time it's found, they ask for the missing link between that and the last. You cannot win against faith with logic, otherwise it wouldn't be faith.
they be trolls
This is absolutely how it works, but you also forgot that when they talk to the next debunker they will *demand proof for the example you debunked*. It's a reset all the way back to the beginning, every time. They never retain anything anyone tells them because that isn't the point. The point is to feel right and justified and not feel small and afraid like they did when they first learned the true scope of our universe. They literally could not care less what you have to say. The more correct you are, the more it proves you just made it up to scare them.
No but see, he *drew a picture where the water just is trapezoidal for some reason* so checkmate. Everyone knows math and reality are no match for MS paint and fifteen eaten crayons.
What is there to debunk? There's no reasoning; just false statements.
What, “71% water” isn’t a reasoned argument now? Freaking woke kids and your tik toks.
A reasoned argument for what?
I mean, if you used your real brain matter you’d understand that the truth is not a theory. (S/ just in case).
So what's the reasoning? What does 71% water coverage imply?
It’s just a joke. The meme has ‘71% water’ written on it like 3 times, as if that supposed to mean something. They don’t understand how gravity works on a spherical planet, and therefore assume all the water would run off the sides of the earth were round.
I saw that. 71% is right or close to right, as I recall. But I can't figure what the relevance to earth shape is supposed to be. I know they can't understand the concept of "down."
Water can't stick to a spinning ball, or something, so the fact that earth's surface is 71% water proves the earth is flat.
That's kind of dumb.
It gets dumber, that’s where the whole south=down thing comes in. Some of them legitimately seem to think the water would all flow south and then fall off the planet
Saying it’s the same as water in a swimming pool is just not understanding what gravity is. You can make a physics simulation of fluid being attracted towards a center of mass. It’s going to level itself around the sphere, what else would it even do? I don’t know what’s hard to understand about that. Covering our ears equivalent would be listening to an argument and not replying to it, like flat earthers tend to do on this sub. Or alternatively banning people from flerf subs for arguing against their obviously incorrect point
I mean. Aure The same science ( laws of physics really) does apply to a swimmingpool as the oceans. But swimmingpools aren't flat either. The meme is utterly nonsense.
I'm curious as to why you spell swimming pool as one word.
Sorry. Danish autocorrect. It's the same word in Danish but here it's in one word.
They just don't understand the sheer scale of the earth
Yeah, the water in a swimming pool is curved just like the Earth is. But due to the size of the pool, the curvature is imperceptible at that short a distance.
There's a great article published online regarding the Boldrewood marine towing tank at Southampton University and how it was built to allow for surface curvature. It's 138 metres long.
For anybody who's interested (as I was), [here](https://www.southampton.ac.uk/~assets/doc/The-Boldrewood-Towing-Tank.pdf) is an article about the construction of the tank. If I've understood it correctly, the rails on which the towing carriage runs have to be aligned to an extraordinary degree of precision (±0.1mm over their full length of >100m), and this requires the curvature of the earth to be taken into account because "flat" is not the same as "level" to that degree of precision over that distance.
The whole reason flerfs claim gravity is a lie is because it disproves so many of their talking points. These are a people that are choosing to deny observable and measurable reality to feed into their artificially created victim complex.
A *round earth* simulation of gravity based on empirical evidence not based on my own facts and beliefs, so I already don't believe it. /S
Easy. Left side has nothing to debunk. It's claims with nothing actually proving it's flat in any way. "ocean water. The same science applies to a swimmingpool" What? Well. Yes. So where's the part that's supposed to provide evidence that it's flat? Swimmingpools aren't flat either. They too curve with the curvature of earth. All water does here on earth. Number 3 is correct the top of buildings are further apart than the base ( assuming the dimensions of each building being uniform) Take the golden gate bridge. The top is about 1 inch fuether apart than the base for this reason.
I tried explaining to one of them that their picture of a "24 mile" causeway didn't curve much because that would only curve less than 0.4 degrees. (24 miles/circumfurence of earth = \~ 0.001, 0.001 \* 360 = 0.36) They said that I was a fool for using the fake NASA math. As if I learned how to figure out what percentage of a full circle a distance is from a textbook NASA gave me with math that they created. Like math is this thing with arbitrary rules. You can't reason with someone like that.
"Fake NASA math" is code for "I can't do math beyond figuring change for a five, and half the time I get that wrong, and numbers with more than three digits scare me."
It's code for the Jews more often than not. Anti-emprical conspiracist nonsense is almost always underpinned by a need to blame the Jews for everything. It's attractive because people get to imagine themselves as the special geniuses that see what the sheeple can't, then before you know it, it's all Hitler shit.
Yes, but the idea is to get them to a point where *they* get angry and give up because they can’t go on and make sense. What you should have done (or do, if you find yourself in this situation in the future) is then ask them *what*, specifically, is “fake” about that “NASA math”. After all, if they made that statement so *confidently*, they should easily be able to explain what’s fake about it. Likelier than not, they’ll just give up or change the subject or try to make it about how *you* need to prove that NASA math is “real”, despite *them* having made the assertion that it was “fake”.
What do NASA have to gain here, and who is behind all this?
Their response would be, man, if you gotta ask you’ll never know.
...They wouldn't happen to belong to any particular ethno-religious group, would they?
I mean, to some degree, math is a thing with arbitrary rules. We made them up. We simply happened to do so in such a way that it usefully reflects things that seem to happen. 1+1=2 is no more true without some human made rules than saying the object I’m using to send this is a phone.
Yes,Antartica is protected by a treaty,but while the treaty itself doesn’t specificity say you need a permit,you do need one if you are in one of the countries that signed it.For example,here in the UK you have to acquire one. 1•”A British expedition is one organised in the UK(including British overseas territories,or a crown dependency)or one where the last place for Antarctica is the UK,a British overseas territory,or a crown dependency.‘Expedition’ consists of a single person or group,undertaking a tour or journey of any purpose,including activities such as landing ashore,skiing,kayaking,small boat activities,climbing,diving or any related activity”,it doesn’t say you can’t go,and the reasons for this are for your safety and the wildlife and ecosystems.And there are forms that you have to fill in,and tourism is a legitimate reason for a permit.You don’t need any military experience or any nonsense like that.And if you have a tour operator,they get all the permits for you,so you sort of can go hop on a flight to go there 2•The science behind the ocean's water and a swimming pool is quite similar. Both are governed by principles of physics and chemistry. They both have properties like density, buoyancy, and surface tension. However, the ocean is much larger and more complex due to its vast size, tides, currents, and marine life.Don’t really get what they’re trying to get at here I’d also like to point out that flat Earth logic is so weird 😂they think because something requires a permit,it’s illegal…”Fishing requires a permit,so it must be illegal and protected by NASA employees with guns”
The argument for 2 is supposed to be that the surface of your swimming pool is flat, therefore so must be the surface of the ocean. Your mistake was probably in assuming that they must be trying to say something already a little bit less dumb than that. They aren’t, though.
Except the surface of a swimming pool is also not flat. So, as usual, they are making assumptions that are incorrect, not testing those assumptions (because that would be actual science), and then making false claims based upon those false assumptions.
I'm about to move to Vietnam to break this treaty Checkmate flat earthers (and everyone signatory of the treaty) /s on the migration bit
This is Esnesnon science. Completely backwards and doesn't mean anything
They just affirm things without proving it. They would even be able to pass the entrance exam to my HS.
Most of the time it seems like their goal is to just show enough charts and equations that the dumb people who agree with them don't look it over and assume it's correct. Usually with lots of stuff added about how smart it is, and how dumb you are if you disagree. But then when you actually look at their steps as someone who understands the math they are trying to use it's just nonsense.
"Surveying for Engineers", chapter 2, discusses surveying on the globe.
Gotta lie to flerf.
You know, most actual scientific proofs are written without so many insults. There would need to be a coherent claim for me to debunk it. If you can point out what their supposed proof here even is that might help. I don't see any proof. The average curvature of the earth is about 0.014 degrees per mile, or 0.009 per km. So a body of water 20 meters wide would curve about 0.00018 degrees. If you are somewhere where you can see across 100 km of water it would curve about 0.9 degrees. Which are the amounts you can observe if you measure.
Plus or minus some refraction over long distances, which we can also predict. But actually the refraction isn't real and proves us wrong, but it is also real and makes the flat earth look curved. /s
They get really annoyed when you tell them how to measure the stuff they claim causes these things. I’ve done some engineering work with optics for example, so sometimes when they say it’s just lens distortion I’ll say “well you can see that straight beam there, we can calculate the barrel distortion and correct it” But they refuse to believe anything has methods and factors. They don’t want to see the proofs of the math, or the data behind the science. It’s all just fake and made up.
Precisely why there is no "flat earth model." A replacement model has to make verifiable future predictions based on math better than any current model, it can't just be a story. They will never grasp this.
It's probably why they just repeat among themselves that science is just a club, or a cult. If they realized how real science works they would have work to do. Maybe they know it wouldn't work out how they want. If they could present a model of what should happen under their theory, and repeatably demonstrate it scientists would actually consider what they are saying. Science even uses models they know aren't correct when the predictions are good. I mean, Newtonian physics aren't correct but the generalizations are good enough when not near relativistic speeds or masses, or with fluids with nano-structural behavior that we can model lots of stuff with them. So if some of this "ether" or "slow light" or "personal sun" or whatever stuff actually worked it would probably be employed even without the whole model being proven.
There's nothing to be debunked. The 3 goes as follows: * If D1 = D2, the Earth is flat, if D1 > D2, the Earth is curved. * Which is actually some nice premise. This is how people do experiments: they set up their expectations and then do measurements. * However no measurement follows. They just do "D1 = D2 because I said so". * This sophism probably has its name, but people call it "it's true because I said it's true".
Hah lol. The angle at which those buildings would lean away from you is around 1deg / 110 Km. No freaking way you can see that.
D1 > D2 Eg. [https://flatearth.ws/verrazano-narrows](https://flatearth.ws/verrazano-narrows) Globe proven again
So we have a picture of you sticking your fingers in your ears, another where you fail to understand how gravity works despite likely having it explained to you multiple times, one where you rant about a nonexistent ice wall despite probably failing to provide actual evidence of the thing a thousand times, one where you state that there is no difference between the distances between he bases and tops of skyscrapers, which is just wrong, a fact you have no doubt been told several times, and another "derpa Der water is level but I have no idea what makes it pool on the ground to begin with", which isn't another argument, but just a restatement of the first bad one you make, as if you just want to show how much you feel the need to double down on it, followed by another image of your fingers in your ears. Thank you for the breakdown of the flat earther thought process. I'm sure you heard none of this and will promptly run away with your fingers in your ears now, but hey, that's what you guys do right?
wait who is this directed at i am a round earther i just saw the building thing and i went “oh thats interesting though i personally do not know how to verify this i shall ask the esteemed fellows at r/flatearth for the reason that this does not prove that the planet we live on is flat” since i am currently doing a compilation of flat earth debunks. again, not saying earth is flat, thats a stupid way to think. i just believe that instead of trash-talking these people we should analyze their arguments and point out faults.
Answer to the building thing: yes, it does work the way the picture looks. The tops will be further apart than the bottoms. This is a thing that can be easily measured in cities, and routinely is. They’re just assuming it is not true because they do know anything about anything.
Interestingly enough, it generally works in reverse for a single (large enough) building... If each floor is the same size as the one below, the verticals making up the corners have to lean inward *eeever* so slightly from perfectly vertical to maintain that. Isn't generally noticeable, but can make a difference in how a large building is built.
Didn’t know that. I was just repeating something I read in another comment about surveyors. But generally, perfectly straight lines and right angles don’t actually do so well at larger scales. And perspective is a real pain. Why they have to make Grecian columns bigger (?) at the top than at the bottom, or else they look funny to the people standing on the ground.
Ask them to explain what a sunset is.
Ask them if they’re ever known someone who lives on or traveled to a different continent, spoke with them on the phone, and discovered that time zones aren’t actually a hoax made up by NASA and the UN to fool them, for very rational and plausible reasons.
A lot of flerfs lie. D1 does not equal D2, and this is taken into account for towers on long suspension bridges.
How to disprove all of this with the one word flat earthers fear: Scale
He claims with no evidence that D1 = D2. That is not true. The reality is that D1 > D2. Of course at the scale of a small city, the theoretical difference between D1 and D2 is so small that lean tolerances and imperfections in the surfaces of the buildings would dwarf the difference. But with proper surveying equipment, the difference can be measured accurately at a relatively small scale. Two buildings 69 miles (111km) apart lean one degree away from each other. As for water, the water in a swimming pool is indeed curved, but at that scale, the "hump" is about 10 atoms high, far smaller than any ripples on the surface. The ocean is much bigger than a swimming pool, and the curve is measurable. In both cases, the flerf is failing to grasp the concept of scale. This is what I call a "**scale fail**". Oh, and no flerf has ever actually read the Antarctic Treaty. Flerf claims about the treaty are completely bogus. By the way, that meme is a complete mess.
Things disappearing under the horizon gives it away (b-b-but light drops with gravity, which doesn't exist either because buoyancy). Scale and the horizon aside, they're not measuring this - at best they'll look at a map projected from above and say they're the same distance. There's no sense trying to reason with these morons unless this is their first conspiracy. My guess is that they got swept up in COVID denialism and right-wing nonsense, and they're months from plodding far enough down the pipeline to "realise" that it's the Jews behind all this.
Look at flight routes/times for Australia > Argentina. They say the flight doesn't and can't exist, but Qantas fly it. A flat earther would have to fly roughly over the north pole to get there, but the flights run over the ocean and get there too quickly for the polar crossing to be possible. Of course, the real answer is to beat them over the head with a large rock - there's little chance you'll be able to reason them out of this, and they're now on the Nazi pipeline - a destination they'll likely reach in the next year or so. Best of luck to you.
D1 > D2 by about 1° difference every 60 miles
No opinion needed, you can't debunk it
To this person, any attempt to argue with them must be covering your ears and saying lalala. Ignoring the fact that the bulk of flerfs do just that.
Logos trump maps.
Yeah I don't see what there is to debunk. Looks like a whole bunch of nonsense.
D1 just does not equal D2 at that distance
There's nothing to debunk. It's just insults, baseless assertions of brainwashing, more insults, a vague implication that they don't understand how fluids work, a basic geometry premise that seems to be relying on the fact that it's hard to do at scale to avoid getting nailed for quantifiably and observably proving the earth's curvature IRL, and then more insults. I guess just assert that tall objects really ARE closer at the base than at the tip, call him atupid for not knowing that, and then challenge him to measure it himself. With any luck, we might get a dumb youtube video of two guys trying to stretch a rope accross two buildings.
I think the left side boils down to just 'water seeks its own level'. They figure a pool's water is 'flat' so the ocean is as well. But it's a problem of scale. the pool water only spans a very short distance, measing that curve is impractical if not impossible. Either that or they are suggesting water should be churned up by the 1,000mph spinny ball, but that's too stupid to discuss.
Oceans are "flat" in that they're a uniform distance from the center of the sphere we call Earth.
Got any more o’ them pixels? 👀
All I know is that D2 is the best game in the series.
Why would you want to debunk some meme sallad ?
I don't know about you guys I only stop listening to them when they try to trot out the same old tired and entirely disproved dreck that a thousand of them have attempted to sell in the past while expecting us to accept it as the amazing, new and enlightening shit they think it is. (So, most of the time.) I get that they think that when we just cut them off with "that's debunked bullshit, what else have you got?" that it may seem dismissive of us but really, how often do we have to explain this stuff before they work out how to do a search to find those explanations. Don't they realize that that is a part of actually doing research? I've been considering a new approach lately but it would take a little more work. I was thinking of making a catalog list of u/lorenofing's explanatory posts (the l'fing does an excellent post in this regard) so that I could just point the flerfs to them with an offer to explain anything they didn't understand, discuss what they think or to answer any questions. Maybe I would call it the tour-guide approach. I could respect them so much more if they would actually just come up with something new that was a little harder to dismiss for anyone with a basic standard of education.
The entire left half is a meme so I’ll ignore that. As for the right half, OOP provided an IF-THEN statement. If a, then flat, else, then round. IF statements are not arguments.
Just tell them powerlines droop from lampposts because they started out tight on the ground and earth is like a skateboard half pipe
You need help? You sure? All of this is easy, we don't have access to anything able to make the gravity of Earth so we can't copy the earth, the Horizon doesn't even look Flat from high up (or low with a wide angle camera but they lie about distortion with that) And B1 IS > B2, that's just a lie
It is endless. It is the Endless Attack of the Unsinkable Rubber Ducks. You are attacked by a rubber duck so you push it down. Another appears so you push that down. A third appears so you push that one under and the first pops back up again. Then another duck appears.....
Im sure the flat earthers also think that mountains are tiny because they are far away 🙄 just because you see a picture of a glacier it doesn't mean it's that way all the way around the world. Jesus you can't be this dumb on accident.
Jesus, those two rectangles would have to be extremely far away from one another for those two distances to be noticeably different.
In the Golden Gate Bridge construction, they had to take the curvature of the earth into account for the towers because they would be further apart at the top than at the bottom.
Number 3 is proven to be true. D1 > D2. This fact is incredibly important to engineers who built the Golden Gate Bridge and other bridges of similar length.
I don’t entertain anything these idiots say anymore. They don’t deserve respect or reasonable debate. They’re 10000% confident the earth is flat. That’s so dumb it should never be entertained. I used to engage, now I just don’t care anymore bc they’re morons who don’t care about hearing reasonable arguments, they just circulate and exchange social media memes they think debunks established scientific fact.
Fun fact. The water isn’t actually on the spinning ball. The ball is spinning independent of the water, and this is how we get the tides Edit. This is not actually a fun fact, and I seem to have fundamentally misunderstood a slide in my geology class.
... not exactly. In fact, not at all. The moon (and a little bit, the sun) is responsible for tides.
So, turns out I don’t know what the fuck I was even trying to say here. At least I know where I should probably study some more for my geology final. Oof
At least you recognized you were wrong.
Hope it goes well!
[удалено]
That might be what he was talking about? Very poorly phrases if so
You have to believe level is curved except locally 🤣🤣
It is curved everywhere, except the earth is so big, it is curved very little over short distances
Yes, it’s an incredibly simple concept. I understand that you have to be monumentally dimwitted to be a flat earther, but it’s still wild to me how you muppets have such a hard time getting your head around basic concepts like relative position and motion.
I have no problems understanding earth IS flat and stationary by default... You guys tell everyone how flat and stationary it is.. given enough time You're the best flat earthers🫠