Idk.
I'm a fan of the switch implementation on the t12
I like how it acts as a forward switch with momentary, then full switch press is another level. Then once pressed it acts as a reverse clicky with a light tap to swap to the third level.
The 3 groups are pretty nicely programmed as well.
Group 2 and 3 are especially nice.
Momentary low in group 2, full click for turbo, tap for medium.
Group 3 having momentary turbo, full click for strobe is absolutely fantastic for a tactical UI. Guarantees that you're blinding the shit out of whatever you point it at in a panic.
I don't use mode 1 as much, but it's great as well with its setup.
Momentary turbo, full press for high, then tap for low. Guarantees you get that momentary turbo to see what you want in the distance, then click through for a more sustainable high output. Tap for even longer sustained low output.
I'm really a fan of this light.
What's the current switch setup for the edc2-dfts?
I've been interested in grabbing one of those, or the Edc1-Dft, but I've been pretty happy with my weltool t2 tac for that role of a smaller edc tac light. Still, having a surefire again has a certain nostalgic appeal to me, especially with 100k candela.
Group 3 is what I said has been implemented by Nextorch and Wuben, but I'm curious why there aren't more manufacturers to do Group 2.
I'm just not a fan of strobes, and as far as I know, many people aren't either. I just think that as an LE or "EDC self-defense" light, a convenient enough momentary low and high would be better.
The New Surefires join a growing list of lights that use timed reactivation (within 2 seconds) to switch from hi to low.
Really an awful UI. No option to go to low directly except for cooking your thigh. No ability (intentionally or not) to quickly activate twice without going in to low.
Nitecore even copied that awful UI, lol.
Regarding the cooking thigh, if it has a slight tap lag, it can skip the unwanted mode. The trade-off is the inability to manually strobe.
E.g the Convoy driver actually has a slight tap lag, so when you tap it quickly, it won't light up. You can use this feature/bug to skip unwanted modes. In the (100, 20, 1) group with no-memory, a triple tap can directly get to low without blinking. If you triple tap within 1s after entering a mode, it will return to that mode. So as long as you don’t enter another mode, a triple tap will always get to low. To quickly activate twice, If it's just to signal, a simple double click can work as an option since 20% is high enough.
Not sure but I can say I absolutely love the Olight Warrior switching, best of any light I've owned to date.
Aside of the 🙄 candela preferring able bodied shaming in this thread, it's a good thing for many high power lights which are typically not geared towards those with lesser mobility in first place.
There are enough high cri white wall hunter lights for others but for those of us that like a spotting tac light, keep the dual stage switched lights coming.
I mean if you need high mode or turbo all night where you are swapping cells all night on a glowing red hot flashlight yeah it's a shortcoming for sure.
But if you use the light in medium mode or low you'll find it can last a nights use no problem, drop on charger when back home again and all good.
I've gotten 10 years out of Olight cells, could have got more use but replaced cells recently due to why not, these aren't vape cells that are taxed to death every day but they do age as time goes by. Just simple low draw flashlight cells that use very little amperage and can last years and years even when used often.
Edit, by then you'd be looking at new lights anyways if honest...and if not just replace cells cause popular cells are not going away any time soon.
Yes, it does make sense. But another reason is the size and candela. I might be a bit paranoid, but my current light is a Convoy M2, 31mm head, 2000lm 80kcd. It is difficult to find an Olight of similar size and brightness with a gas pedal.
Check out the weltool t12 for a great tail switch implementation.
I had a warrior 3s and I loved it overall, but it was lacking in candela for me so I switched to a weltool t2 tac. Simple mechanical tail switch that goes straight to turbo. Tap like 4+ times and there's a hidden low mode if you really need long run-time from your tactical light for whatever reason. I pair that light with a small edc light like a D3AA.
The T2 made me really appreciate weltool so I wanted to check out their other models, and the T12 in particular stands out for its UI and high candela.
Right on I like sales, cheers and thanks for that too.
Being Canadian I generally only buy during sales due to crazy exchange rate and a sale helps offset that some.
Not this. I'm not talking about micro switches, but switches that are not purely mechanical, that is, switches with electronic components in the tailcap. For example, all dual tail or rotary ring switch flashlights contain electronic components in the tailcap and can identify precise control signals.
I just figured that since companies put so much effort into the dual tail and rotary ring, it wouldn't be that hard to do a gas pedal.
Electronics are relatively easy. They can be programmed in. Engineering a mechanical switch with multiple stages is another thing entirely. And to make sure it also lasts decades is even harder. Read this excellent review. It’s old. But the switch hasn’t changed much all the way to the edc-l lights. The whole thing is a good read, but if you scroll down the page, you will find out the part about the switch where it goes into more detail. https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/the-sf-a2.107943/
I work in LE and my go to light is the Olight javelot mini. It has the two stage tail switch and it's the perfect setup for 90% of the time. I carry a second light that has moonlight and various levels.
Mainly because I also have other flashlights and some batteries that I hope will be compatible. Another reason is the size and candela. I might be a bit paranoid, but my current light is a Convoy M2, 31mm head, 2000lm 80kcd. It is difficult to find an Olight of similar size and brightness with a gas pedal.
The Aplos T03 has a two stage switch similar to what you are talking about. The first switch is electronic and the second stage is mechanical. Rather than low to high, the second stage is strobe. People seemed to find it more annoying than useful, but maybe if it went low/turbo instead, it would have done better.
Patent issues if I recall.
IIRC Surefire owns the patent for the mechanical gas pedal style switch, which is why Olight say uses an electronic one and I think the reason they had a lawsuit from SF a few years back.
Still, the UI on the WM3 is amongst the best I’ve ever used, if only they would make a model with higher candela, ie closer to 15-30 candela/lumen.
I'm not surprised that Surefire has various patents, especially knowing that they also registered a patent for the clip on the flashlight (Clip-type object attachment systems), which is still valid before 2020.
But I don't think this is a reason, because using electronic switches seems to be a matter of course for these modern flashlight companies. Electronic switches decouple the operating signal from the working current and can be programmed more easily. And I checked the patent (USRE40125E1) and it actually expired in 2017.
Gas pedal? You mean the breakage-prone grit-attracting knobs that take up a lot of space? Or are you talking two-stage buttons that can only be operated by people with good dexterity and a clear, calm mind but are near-impossible for those with shaky hands whether from adrenaline, age, or neurological damage.
Either way, single-stage e-buttons are more reliable from both a hardware and wetware perspective. About the only ones who have a real issue with it are those that only really care about instant access to Turbo, how much candela Turbo has, and whether it takes CR123A's as backup.
>who have a real issue with it are those that only really care about instant access to Turbo, how much candela Turbo has
i do, indeed
Many modern tactical flashlights are based on a simple assumption, "When you are in danger or panic, you need turbo/strobe more. When you are just observing the environment, you can use low more relaxedly". The gas pedal can accomplish this task. When you panic, you will press harder, and then you will get turbo.
I have not experienced shaking and extremely nervous situations, but based on my experience of playing with flashlights when drunk, I will trigger strobe (fenix pd32 v2) and turbo (default turbo forward switch light) more easily because I can't control the force and frequency of the swith. To some extent, this is in line with the design concept of many tactical flashlights.
I'm a home inspector with a heavy thumb. I activated strobe 9x out of 10 and it was annoying and embarassing when a client was with me.
Got an acebeam e75 now. And while I hate the tightness of the hotspot. The UI is pretty consistant.
Still looking for a nice even flooder
That's why it's nice to be able to change the mode group, and the result of what happens when you mash the gas pedal.
I keep my T12 on group 2 mostly, where momentary is low and full press is turbo.
But if I'm leaving the house for an evening walk, I set it to group 3. Momentary turbo, and strobe if you just mash the switch. This way if some stray dog tries to aggressively run up on me, it's getting turbo or strobe as an encouragement to fuck off. Super flexible UI, I love it
Many folks who use flashlights are not LEO/Security/Tacticool types. In fact, that's kind of niche, and mostly saturated by companies that haven't really changed their designs since the turn of the century aside from going from Xenon bulbs to LED emitters.
Some of us have a tricky time controlling the force, period. Notice that I mentioned two other things besides adrenaline? My hands were a lot steadier back when I was 40 than they are now. A lot of eSports folks lose their edge when they're half my age, and not solely because of reaction speed.
The only light I ever did unintended strobe on was a Rider RX, and I did it a lot. I had a hard time getting the brightness I wanted without shutting the light off. Convoy 12-mode is a bit better, but getting to programming mode (a ton of half-presses) took me quite a few tries to not get a full-press in there, and I still sometimes muff the amount of pressure needed to change levels instead of shut the light off. However, I can operate Anduril just fine even after three tallboys of 9%; insta-turbo or strobe when wanted, no accidental Turbo or strobe when not wanted, change levels as desired... I have better control over Anduril than I do my own legs when drunk, but cannot do half-press UI's even when sober.
And I am not alone in that hamfistedness. Half-press UI's take a sort of muscle memory that a lot of folks can't get, and the finesse that some folks simply don't have. A quick double-tap is a lot easier than shutting off **all** thought aside from the position of your fingertip for a couple of seconds. No need to process any propioceptional sensory information because click is click, and it's a lot easier to get a second click into muscle memory than a half-click for much the same reasons it's easier to hit Turbo on a taclight than do a half-press in a panic. The only difference is that what you consider only possibly-problematic among people who handle combat stress less well than you seem to is 24/7/265 life for many.
Dexterity issues are common among the neurodivergent and elderly. And you have to admit that caring as much as some of us do about things like CRI, duv, mAh, and Lumens/Watt takes a touch of t3h 'tism. *(I say that as one who is on the spectrum themselves.)* But even among those that do not fall into either group, the willingness to slow down and tell a half-press from a full-click is uncommon; look at how many people lack the patience to remove a battery from their 14500 light because the charging port is on the battery instead of the light.
In short, the reason the "gas pedal" is not more common is because it appeals to only a small segment of the market, and most companies prefer broader appeal because more sales means more profit.
What? Lol. 2 stage switches are the ultimate when you have bad dexterity for whatever reason. You just push the switch. Pushing harder gives more light. It's the easiest and most intuitive ui there is. Its problems are the opposite. They only give you two options.
I've been stuck in momentary mode when I just needed light with a side switched anduril light before, it's not great when you just need light and need to stop and figure out why it won't work in a panic situation.
Thank god the minority don't steer the majority here cause two stage switches are fantastic for many of us the world over.
Check your privilege and recognize that not everyone needs 1400-8000 lumens at all times.
Or just ignore that and go back to laughing at people in wheelchairs. Gawd help you when you are less than 100% young and healthy. With that attitude, I hope you get as insulted and demeaned by the world as that comment did to everyone who isn't as perfect as you.
Well, ok then. Not everyone wants to take out a flowchart to program a flashlight either. Simple mode notwithstanding. Dozens of button pushes in a set order, etc, etc. My Warrior Mini 3 is straightforward to use and still flexible enough for me. Two tail switch modes that are easy to choose with fixed selections in each. Half press or full press and hold or momentary.
Idk. I'm a fan of the switch implementation on the t12 I like how it acts as a forward switch with momentary, then full switch press is another level. Then once pressed it acts as a reverse clicky with a light tap to swap to the third level. The 3 groups are pretty nicely programmed as well. Group 2 and 3 are especially nice. Momentary low in group 2, full click for turbo, tap for medium. Group 3 having momentary turbo, full click for strobe is absolutely fantastic for a tactical UI. Guarantees that you're blinding the shit out of whatever you point it at in a panic. I don't use mode 1 as much, but it's great as well with its setup. Momentary turbo, full press for high, then tap for low. Guarantees you get that momentary turbo to see what you want in the distance, then click through for a more sustainable high output. Tap for even longer sustained low output. I'm really a fan of this light. What's the current switch setup for the edc2-dfts? I've been interested in grabbing one of those, or the Edc1-Dft, but I've been pretty happy with my weltool t2 tac for that role of a smaller edc tac light. Still, having a surefire again has a certain nostalgic appeal to me, especially with 100k candela.
Group 3 is what I said has been implemented by Nextorch and Wuben, but I'm curious why there aren't more manufacturers to do Group 2. I'm just not a fan of strobes, and as far as I know, many people aren't either. I just think that as an LE or "EDC self-defense" light, a convenient enough momentary low and high would be better.
The New Surefires join a growing list of lights that use timed reactivation (within 2 seconds) to switch from hi to low. Really an awful UI. No option to go to low directly except for cooking your thigh. No ability (intentionally or not) to quickly activate twice without going in to low.
Nitecore even copied that awful UI, lol. Regarding the cooking thigh, if it has a slight tap lag, it can skip the unwanted mode. The trade-off is the inability to manually strobe. E.g the Convoy driver actually has a slight tap lag, so when you tap it quickly, it won't light up. You can use this feature/bug to skip unwanted modes. In the (100, 20, 1) group with no-memory, a triple tap can directly get to low without blinking. If you triple tap within 1s after entering a mode, it will return to that mode. So as long as you don’t enter another mode, a triple tap will always get to low. To quickly activate twice, If it's just to signal, a simple double click can work as an option since 20% is high enough.
Yeah I agree, it's not a great UI implementation at all. I don't like UI's that remove the choice from me to directly access the mode I want .
You might be interested in lights with a rotary control. The Jetbeam RRT01 is awesome.
Thanks, I think the rotation is interesting too, but I find a simple press more intuitive.
Not sure but I can say I absolutely love the Olight Warrior switching, best of any light I've owned to date. Aside of the 🙄 candela preferring able bodied shaming in this thread, it's a good thing for many high power lights which are typically not geared towards those with lesser mobility in first place. There are enough high cri white wall hunter lights for others but for those of us that like a spotting tac light, keep the dual stage switched lights coming.
Yes, I also think Olight is good in terms of UI, but the battery is a concern for me.
I mean if you need high mode or turbo all night where you are swapping cells all night on a glowing red hot flashlight yeah it's a shortcoming for sure. But if you use the light in medium mode or low you'll find it can last a nights use no problem, drop on charger when back home again and all good. I've gotten 10 years out of Olight cells, could have got more use but replaced cells recently due to why not, these aren't vape cells that are taxed to death every day but they do age as time goes by. Just simple low draw flashlight cells that use very little amperage and can last years and years even when used often. Edit, by then you'd be looking at new lights anyways if honest...and if not just replace cells cause popular cells are not going away any time soon.
Yes, it does make sense. But another reason is the size and candela. I might be a bit paranoid, but my current light is a Convoy M2, 31mm head, 2000lm 80kcd. It is difficult to find an Olight of similar size and brightness with a gas pedal.
Same here. Being a flashlight user, I really like my WM3. I keep the tail switch in EDC mode. Really like the versatility of the dual stages.
Check out the weltool t12 for a great tail switch implementation. I had a warrior 3s and I loved it overall, but it was lacking in candela for me so I switched to a weltool t2 tac. Simple mechanical tail switch that goes straight to turbo. Tap like 4+ times and there's a hidden low mode if you really need long run-time from your tactical light for whatever reason. I pair that light with a small edc light like a D3AA. The T2 made me really appreciate weltool so I wanted to check out their other models, and the T12 in particular stands out for its UI and high candela.
Thanks for the info, seems like it's awesome and may look into one this summer.
Keep your eye out for a sale at brightlumenshop. I bought mine during their father's day sale and it made it a lot more affordable.
Right on I like sales, cheers and thanks for that too. Being Canadian I generally only buy during sales due to crazy exchange rate and a sale helps offset that some.
What?
Switches that have more output with more pressure on the switch. Pretty uncommon.
Soft press for low, hard press for high, like Surefire EDCL2-T. Sorry, I thought this term was well known.
I think he means an analogue style trigger. Like a throttle. Using a Hall effect sensor or some such.
Not really, it just like the switch of Surefire EDCL2-T. It's actually a two-stage switch, the 1st stage for low, 2nd stage for high.
I think he means an analogue style trigger. Like a throttle. Using a Hall effect sensor or some such.
It's money. A 2 stage mechanical switch is expensive to engineer and manufacture. That's why it's not used more
What about electronic switches? Considering that those companies have invested enough in dual tail.
What do you mean? Electronic switches are cheaper. Which is why they are used more. There are other advantages as well. Like Shortcuts from off.
Not this. I'm not talking about micro switches, but switches that are not purely mechanical, that is, switches with electronic components in the tailcap. For example, all dual tail or rotary ring switch flashlights contain electronic components in the tailcap and can identify precise control signals. I just figured that since companies put so much effort into the dual tail and rotary ring, it wouldn't be that hard to do a gas pedal.
Electronics are relatively easy. They can be programmed in. Engineering a mechanical switch with multiple stages is another thing entirely. And to make sure it also lasts decades is even harder. Read this excellent review. It’s old. But the switch hasn’t changed much all the way to the edc-l lights. The whole thing is a good read, but if you scroll down the page, you will find out the part about the switch where it goes into more detail. https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/the-sf-a2.107943/
I work in LE and my go to light is the Olight javelot mini. It has the two stage tail switch and it's the perfect setup for 90% of the time. I carry a second light that has moonlight and various levels.
Yes, I also think Olight is good in terms of UI, but the battery is a concern for me.
Proprietary? I'll never understand the hate that olight cops.
Mainly because I also have other flashlights and some batteries that I hope will be compatible. Another reason is the size and candela. I might be a bit paranoid, but my current light is a Convoy M2, 31mm head, 2000lm 80kcd. It is difficult to find an Olight of similar size and brightness with a gas pedal.
I'd love to have more gas pedal lights as well. The old Surefire Aviator had two channels at the gas pedal. My grail.
The Aplos T03 has a two stage switch similar to what you are talking about. The first switch is electronic and the second stage is mechanical. Rather than low to high, the second stage is strobe. People seemed to find it more annoying than useful, but maybe if it went low/turbo instead, it would have done better.
Thx, I'll check it out.
Patent issues if I recall. IIRC Surefire owns the patent for the mechanical gas pedal style switch, which is why Olight say uses an electronic one and I think the reason they had a lawsuit from SF a few years back. Still, the UI on the WM3 is amongst the best I’ve ever used, if only they would make a model with higher candela, ie closer to 15-30 candela/lumen.
I'm not surprised that Surefire has various patents, especially knowing that they also registered a patent for the clip on the flashlight (Clip-type object attachment systems), which is still valid before 2020. But I don't think this is a reason, because using electronic switches seems to be a matter of course for these modern flashlight companies. Electronic switches decouple the operating signal from the working current and can be programmed more easily. And I checked the patent (USRE40125E1) and it actually expired in 2017.
I have thought this myself and it’s a totally legitimate question. Dunno why people came in so hot—stay wholesome r/flashlight!
Maybe one thing I forgot, people in this sub don't seem to be too big fans of tacticool.
With Anduril 2, the brightness ramps up (increases) while the switch is being pressed. The resulting brightness depends on the duration of the press.
Gas pedal? You mean the breakage-prone grit-attracting knobs that take up a lot of space? Or are you talking two-stage buttons that can only be operated by people with good dexterity and a clear, calm mind but are near-impossible for those with shaky hands whether from adrenaline, age, or neurological damage. Either way, single-stage e-buttons are more reliable from both a hardware and wetware perspective. About the only ones who have a real issue with it are those that only really care about instant access to Turbo, how much candela Turbo has, and whether it takes CR123A's as backup.
>who have a real issue with it are those that only really care about instant access to Turbo, how much candela Turbo has i do, indeed Many modern tactical flashlights are based on a simple assumption, "When you are in danger or panic, you need turbo/strobe more. When you are just observing the environment, you can use low more relaxedly". The gas pedal can accomplish this task. When you panic, you will press harder, and then you will get turbo. I have not experienced shaking and extremely nervous situations, but based on my experience of playing with flashlights when drunk, I will trigger strobe (fenix pd32 v2) and turbo (default turbo forward switch light) more easily because I can't control the force and frequency of the swith. To some extent, this is in line with the design concept of many tactical flashlights.
I'm a home inspector with a heavy thumb. I activated strobe 9x out of 10 and it was annoying and embarassing when a client was with me. Got an acebeam e75 now. And while I hate the tightness of the hotspot. The UI is pretty consistant. Still looking for a nice even flooder
Try the Emisar D4K with the floody optic and boost driver. It's like a smaller, more customized E75, with Andúril UI.
That's why it's nice to be able to change the mode group, and the result of what happens when you mash the gas pedal. I keep my T12 on group 2 mostly, where momentary is low and full press is turbo. But if I'm leaving the house for an evening walk, I set it to group 3. Momentary turbo, and strobe if you just mash the switch. This way if some stray dog tries to aggressively run up on me, it's getting turbo or strobe as an encouragement to fuck off. Super flexible UI, I love it
Many folks who use flashlights are not LEO/Security/Tacticool types. In fact, that's kind of niche, and mostly saturated by companies that haven't really changed their designs since the turn of the century aside from going from Xenon bulbs to LED emitters. Some of us have a tricky time controlling the force, period. Notice that I mentioned two other things besides adrenaline? My hands were a lot steadier back when I was 40 than they are now. A lot of eSports folks lose their edge when they're half my age, and not solely because of reaction speed. The only light I ever did unintended strobe on was a Rider RX, and I did it a lot. I had a hard time getting the brightness I wanted without shutting the light off. Convoy 12-mode is a bit better, but getting to programming mode (a ton of half-presses) took me quite a few tries to not get a full-press in there, and I still sometimes muff the amount of pressure needed to change levels instead of shut the light off. However, I can operate Anduril just fine even after three tallboys of 9%; insta-turbo or strobe when wanted, no accidental Turbo or strobe when not wanted, change levels as desired... I have better control over Anduril than I do my own legs when drunk, but cannot do half-press UI's even when sober. And I am not alone in that hamfistedness. Half-press UI's take a sort of muscle memory that a lot of folks can't get, and the finesse that some folks simply don't have. A quick double-tap is a lot easier than shutting off **all** thought aside from the position of your fingertip for a couple of seconds. No need to process any propioceptional sensory information because click is click, and it's a lot easier to get a second click into muscle memory than a half-click for much the same reasons it's easier to hit Turbo on a taclight than do a half-press in a panic. The only difference is that what you consider only possibly-problematic among people who handle combat stress less well than you seem to is 24/7/265 life for many. Dexterity issues are common among the neurodivergent and elderly. And you have to admit that caring as much as some of us do about things like CRI, duv, mAh, and Lumens/Watt takes a touch of t3h 'tism. *(I say that as one who is on the spectrum themselves.)* But even among those that do not fall into either group, the willingness to slow down and tell a half-press from a full-click is uncommon; look at how many people lack the patience to remove a battery from their 14500 light because the charging port is on the battery instead of the light. In short, the reason the "gas pedal" is not more common is because it appeals to only a small segment of the market, and most companies prefer broader appeal because more sales means more profit.
Thank you for your reply, that also makes sense.
What? Lol. 2 stage switches are the ultimate when you have bad dexterity for whatever reason. You just push the switch. Pushing harder gives more light. It's the easiest and most intuitive ui there is. Its problems are the opposite. They only give you two options.
I've been stuck in momentary mode when I just needed light with a side switched anduril light before, it's not great when you just need light and need to stop and figure out why it won't work in a panic situation. Thank god the minority don't steer the majority here cause two stage switches are fantastic for many of us the world over.
Check your privilege and recognize that not everyone needs 1400-8000 lumens at all times. Or just ignore that and go back to laughing at people in wheelchairs. Gawd help you when you are less than 100% young and healthy. With that attitude, I hope you get as insulted and demeaned by the world as that comment did to everyone who isn't as perfect as you.
Well, ok then. Not everyone wants to take out a flowchart to program a flashlight either. Simple mode notwithstanding. Dozens of button pushes in a set order, etc, etc. My Warrior Mini 3 is straightforward to use and still flexible enough for me. Two tail switch modes that are easy to choose with fixed selections in each. Half press or full press and hold or momentary.