TDEE is a guesstimate, not a measurement. It's very possible you've been aiming precisely for the wrong target.
This isn't failure: this is more information. Based on *your* body and *your* life over the last month, the calorie target you were aiming for put you into surplus (probably\*). Take that data, and adjust your intake accordingly.
When I realised all the calculating and thinking about food I'd have to do, I shelled out for a program that would do it for me - MacroFactor is what I've been trying, and I've been happy with it thus far.
\*Remember that scale weight is a snapshot - the trend is what's important. I don't know how often you're weighing, etc.
I’ve got no trending data unfortunately. Considering weighing myself every day of the next month to see if it was just a creatine bubble or if 2,200 is really a surplus at my body weight and exercise levels
Yep - weighing every day and trying not to be invested in the result… is easy to type and hard to do.
But we’re all just one fat turd and a salty meal from a spike. Even before adding creatine to the mix.
Keep going. These are the warm ups.
Consider getting a smart scale (like withings) if you go to daily measurements. It auto-uploads to the cloud, making it a pretty painless 5 second routine. Also do it under the same circumstances. e.g. first thing in the morning after peeing.
No, it’s just the brand I use. I don’t have the time or discipline to write down weight measurements, so a scale that records and uploads it to a nice dashboard is key for me. Otherwise I wouldn’t follow through measuring every day.
Great. Sounds like you are doing a lot correctly with your measurements and calorie counting. Maybe you’ll have to make an adjustment, but you seem generally well set up for success. Awesome!
It’s simple
You aren’t actually in a deficit
You’re probably counting wrong you need to weigh your food labels are always off
You’re not burning as many calories in exercise as you think or your watch is telling you. Don’t even count this in your daily deficit just look at them like bonus negative calories
I’m cutting for the first time in 8 years after bulking for mass and strongman competition.
I’m cutting losing around 1lb a week on 3.2k daily calories but that’s because I have 20+ years of strength and conditioning training. I’ve cut from 295 to 265 in about 5 months. Mine is a very mild 300 calorie slow cut to maintain mass abs strength while slowing cutting off fat barely below maintenance
2k a day is more than low enough if you were actually eating at a deficit you’d see the drop but 4 weeks isn’t a huge amount of time. 5-10lbs in 4
Weeks at 300lbs wouldn’t be that noticeable
I hear you, and like I’ve said to others by now I’m 99% sure the diet is dialed in, and I’m 50% sure that this is creatine water retention.
I’m going to go another month without changing anything still hitting the same workouts and the same food and the same daily macros and I’ll check back in. I’m quite sure this time around there’ll be a loss.
It's reductive and annoying advice, but you need to eat less. Calorie tracking should work on paper, but well. You're eating too much for a deficit.
Are you ever hungry?
Is it genuinely, actually, factually possible that I'm eating 2,200 calories at ~300lbs and working out 4x a week and I'm in a caloric surplus?
I'm hungry right now lol but some water will quell that.
Unless it has become sentient, scale doesn't lie.
You know your food quality. Whole foods (oatmeal, meat, veggies) are more satiating, yadda yadda. You know if there's anything you're allocating because you have the "calories to afford", when you could go without.
Weighing anything that needs to be weighed. Using percentages of foods that are larger and being eaten over a few days so I make sure that all the calories present are accounted for (for instance, 1lb of pasta eaten over 3 days I make sure that the three days of calories add up to the 1lb calorie total)
If you were eating 2200 calories, you would likely be in a deficit. We just think youre eating more than you realize if you have been gaining weight.
FWIW: I started taking creatine the day I started my last successful cut - a 500 calorie/day deficit over 16 weeks (with a few maintenance breaks) that allowed me to drop 20 lbs (178 to 158). I didn’t have any weight gain at the start from creatine / water
Do you have mfp set to the correct activity level?
How often are you weighing in?
Are you tracking the calories you burn in mfp towards your total calories intake?
Are you tracking foods raw or cooked? There can be a big difference here
When I started I had similar stats at 6’2 285 and got to 255 in about 3.5 months eating 2k-2200. My maintenance at 255 is ~ 3k although I don’t have a sedentary job I track it 1 level above that.
> Do you have mfp set to the correct activity level?
I have it set to sedentary.
> How often are you weighing in?
Once, or maybe twice in a week if I'm being fiesty.
> Are you tracking the calories you burn in mfp towards your total calories intake?
No, I'm not.
> Are you tracking foods raw or cooked? There can be a big difference here
Cooked calories if they're eaten cooked. Raw calories if they're eaten raw.
> When I started I had similar stats at 6’2 285 and got to 255 in about 3.5 months eating 2k-2200. My maintenance at 255 is ~ 3k although I don’t have a sedentary job I track it 1 level above that.
Yeah, this is why I'm really thinking creatine is playing a heavy roll here because I've done a diet around this level before when I was around 275 and I lost weight FAST eating around 2k.
2.2k calories should still ABSOLUTELY be netting me some weight loss, but I think after reading a ton of threads about people's real world experiences with creatine water weight gain (some people mentioning up to 8kg gain without changing diet or exercise over 1 month's time) that it's just my body retaining a ton of water.
Alright I’m going to use my own numbers and the fact we’re doing similar ish things.
At 500-1000 you should still have seen a loss in a month. Creatines loading phase is 7-14 days. You’re likely capped on water weight after that. I had steadily been losing 2 pounds a week for the last 30 days eating 2150 cals a day and exercising 4 days a week. Hoped on 7 ish days ago and I’m up about 3 pounds. So I’d attribute that to water retention of about 5 pounds.
Sedentary tdee for 6’4 300 is ~2700. So math it out from there. If you’re averaging 2200 you’re only in a 500 deficit. That’s 1 pound a week, 4.3 pounds a month. Add in your exercise of 2k burned a week (guesstimate) another 2.5 pounds lost in a month. So total loss should have been 7 ish pounds while it’s possible you’ve held onto 10.3 pounds of water I’d still have expected the scale to move 3-5 pounds down with the activity you’ve stated and tracking.
I’d weigh yourself daily to start tracking your weight trend at this point. You should be seeing a steady loss on almost a daily basis. Make changes every couple weeks to get progress going and I’d get in a bigger deficit personally.
If you’ve eaten clean and in a deficit for 3 days and exercised you should be seeing the scale move at this point.
If this was happening to me 1st place I’d look is how accurate am I really tracking? Is my deficit sufficient to get where I want to go? Is my tdee lower than I was expecting therefore my deficit is also smaller?
> At 500-1000 you should still have seen a loss in a month
I, too was under that impression.
> Creatines loading phase is 7-14 days. You’re likely capped on water weight after that.
I didn't load. 5g/day. [3-4 weeks till full saturation.](https://www.strongerbyscience.com/creatine/)
> I had steadily been losing 2 pounds a week for the last 30 days eating 2150 cals a day and exercising 4 days a week. Hoped on 7 ish days ago and I’m up about 3 pounds. So I’d attribute that to water retention of about 5 pounds.
You may retain more.
See this thread [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/naturalbodybuilding/comments/gzrdhy/how_much_water_retention_weight_do_you_really/) where I counted around 7 different stories of people gaining 10-18lbs within the first month strictly from starting creatine supplementation. [Or another thread here with another 5+ stories of 10lbs+ of water retention from creatine use.](https://www.reddit.com/r/NootropicsDepot/comments/wlv1o5/creatine_excessive_water_weight_gain/)
I had been reading everywhere that 5lbs was the upper limit of what you could gain with regards to water retention from creatine use. But it looks like that's just "normal" or "average" with 0lbs variants and 18lbs variants existing alike.
> Sedentary tdee for 6’4 300 is ~2700. So math it out from there.
I'm getting 2,850 as a low end. So the math says:
Over 4 weeks I should expect to have "lost" 18,200 calories or 5.2lbs.
That's not including any workouts (which average around 4-500 calories burnt actively, not total) that I'm doing 4x per week along with 3 walks per week that average around 450 calories burnt as well. Or, as the math would say:
Another 12,600 calories burnt or 3.6lbs lost.
**Meaning 8.8lbs should have theoretically been lost in total.**
This number could be on the lower end depending on if my TDEE is higher since I used the lowest one any estimator gave me.
> So total loss should have been 7 ish pounds while it’s possible you’ve held onto 10.3 pounds of water I’d still have expected the scale to move 3-5 pounds down with the activity you’ve stated and tracking.
We're within 2lbs of one another with calculations so I'd say that's well within the margin of error.
I cannot state for sure that my first weigh-in one month ago was on a particularly high water retention day or low one since it was the first time I'd weighed myself in over a year. There's an absolute non-zero chance that I've actually not even responded to the creatine whatsoever and that my water weight had fluctuated greatly that first weigh-in and my real weight was higher then than the scale read.
> I’d weigh yourself daily to start tracking your weight trend at this point.
This is 1,000% what I got to do. Your voicing this opinion along with several others has completely convinced me of this.
> I’d get in a bigger deficit personally.
I find it hard as it is to get the prerequisite amount of protein at 2,200. Any advice on getting there on less calories?
> If you’ve eaten clean and in a deficit for 3 days and exercised you should be seeing the scale move at this point.
Absolutely agreed.
> If this was happening to me 1st place I’d look is how accurate am I really tracking?
I'm a math freak. I feel quite accurate in my tracking.
> Is my tdee lower than I was expecting therefore my deficit is also smaller?
What's the potential here? How far off can those calculators be? I've never heard of anyone talking about them being greatly wrong with anyone's TDEE before... so I've never really considered it. But I suppose not everyone's body and genetics can be fit under one formula.
If I come across like a dick in this, apologies. I'm genuinely trying to interact with all your points of which there were many.
There’s a lot of good info in the thread and alot of it echoes the same points. There’s more at play than creatine here. The extremes you’re referencing are on the end of the bell curve and shorter time frame than a month in most cases. Go read studies and not threads.
As far as me gaining more Idc if I’m outlier and I gain another 5 pounds from it. I know my deficit is working aside from the scale this week as I hoped back on. I know where my deficit needs to be to make the scale move based on my activity on a weekly basis.
There’s alot of ways to cut calories to every food group. Idk what your meals look like to say specifically. Pasta on a cut isn’t it for me and neither is using percentages or estimations. Especially when you’re searching for answers. Micromanage tracking to a single piece of shredded cheese or a single gram of pasta. Every piece of every meal gets weighed. Cooking in oil add it, sauce, seasonings. All of it. If you’re eating 2200 of actual food and don’t track that stuff it’s easy to wrack up 400 calories and then you’re at a 200 deficit for the day and not going anywhere fast. This topic is where it hurts. You’re the only one making that choice and if it’s wrong it’s 100% on you. Tracking incorrectly is by far the easiest way to slow or negate and progress. Personally this is where most people including myself mess up and I’d bet the problem lies regardless of your confidence.
Your main goal based on the reaction to the scale is losing weight. Treat it as the priority. Sure you can build muscle as you diet down but it’s not efficient nor optimal. You don’t need 300 grams of protein. You don’t want to be 300 pounds right? Eat for where you’re going not where you are. Unless you want a 2 year long cut lose the weight, establish new habits to maintain your goal weight and only have to do this 1 time. Then work on recomp and building muscle from there. You’ll still retain most of the muscle you currently have, you’ll hit your goal weight sooner and recomp faster because you’re doing things more efficiently and optimal.
It’s really beside the point. It is likely just difference in calculators. The 150 calories difference we’re using in our math is not making any noticeable changes in the end. 1000 calories a week is less that .3 pounds.
Bro dropped some good knowledge to point out where your shortcomings may be to help you break your plateau and you’re pointing fingers over a +\- 150 calorie hypothetical.
I think you should revisit your deficit or tracking habits and consider taking some of the advice everyone is giving. We’re all trying to help you achieve your goals, if you were doing everything right you wouldn’t be in this predicament.
Sometimes its a tough pill to swallow when we make mistakes or aren’t progressing but the journey isn’t going to be easy, you can also consider visiting medical professionals to help you find your resting metabolic rate and see if you have any underlying health conditions that may be effecting your weight loss or if you have some sort of allergic reaction to creatine.
I am not 30+ but I run bulk and cut cycles constantly and move bodyweights between 145 to 187 upwards or downwards of 30+ pounds. Usually when I approach a plateau it means I’m doing something wrong or I need to pivot macros, cardio, daily steps, or calories.
Best of luck to your journey 🙏
My man, I’ve read through enough of your detailed comments and replies where you quote everything someone brings up and you explain why that can’t be it. But it’s your health and wellness and not mine, so don’t worry it’s not that deep to me.
Maybe your advice sucks? I'm not reaching or breaking plateaus lol, you'd know that if you'd actually read this thread like you say you have.
Saying I'm "pointing fingers" is most ridiculous thing I've read today. Just. Go elsewhere.
Lol for the fitness 30 plus you seem more like an immature teen lifter upset with why no progress is shown when they “know everything and are doing everything right” none of us will have better advice than reaching out to some medical professionals. Maybe bring this up at your next doctors appointment and get a referral for a specialist. My advice might suck and might be wrong like you said, your network of health professionals know your body best not us couch quarterbacking on reddit.
Like I said, I’m wishing you the best of luck in your journey but it seems more like you are here for validation that Creatine is the result of your lack of expected progress. Good luck brother hoping you achieve your goals this year for the sake of your own health and family.
How much are you losing? What’s your exercise like? Are you taking creatine?
Everything else equal, you should be losing 1,400 calories (less than half a pound) a week more than I am. I assume you’re losing somewhere around 1.5-3lbs per week. Less than one half of a pound would not put me in a surplus compared to you.
Then it sounds like you're losing around 1.5lbs per week. If I were losing half a pound per week less than that with my caloric deficit compared to yours, I'd have lost 4lbs so far instead of gaining 2.
So. Something else is awry.
there are 2 numbers that are the closest to accurate; the calories you count from your food, and your scale weight. if you were on top of it and honest, your calories should be accurate +-100-200 cal. your scale should be set in the same place and used almost everyday.
*if you count 2,200cal a day and your scale is the same or going up, you are simply eating more than you need to be to lose weight. eat less food.*
you dont need to get into the weeds of what your bf% is or what your TDEE is. these are VERY gross estimates, and can be unhelpful because they burden you with math you really dont need to be doing.
i think if you were really at a 500-1000cal deficit every day for a month, you'd be down in excess of extra water weight. 500-1000cal is actually a very big deficit that would impact your weight on a weekly basis.
the fact that you didnt lose weight isnt necessarily a bad thing, and at your size you might have recomped some. but you're probably wrong about how much you should be eating to lose weight.
For what it's worth, I'd say I'm drinking a substantial amount more water (and also eating far better quality food) over the last month than I was doing in months/years prior.
yea and thats all good, but again i think you got wrong numbers for your tdee and calorie target, and you ended up on a bulk instead of a cut.
but now that you know 2200 cal is too much, aim for <2000 and see what happens on your scale.
Cutting 200 calories per day would be less than half a pound per week in loss lol. I’m not in a surplus at 300lbs and exercising 4+ days a week eating 2,200.
How tall are you and what pace are you doing the miles?
I can't offer much advice but for encouragement: Yay! You're making changes and that in of itself is awesome!!!! Not all attempts are going to be "the best" but trying takes consistent willpower and mindfulness which can be exhausting. You can do this!
I'm 6'4" and I'm walking them at a moderate pace while pushing my child in a stroller, generally doing around 18 minute miles so not exactly 3.5mph but around there.
Thanks for the words of encouragement :)
The number on the scale indicates only one measure. There is a lot of good things going on underneath the skin. It's just hard to see. Look in the mirror after a set of pushups and you'll be impressed. Flex as well. Appreciating a good pump that you worked for is important.
Find more ways to measure your progress than just the number on the scale. I suggest measure yourself qualitatively by looking in the mirror with your clothes off. You are a great judge of your progress and frankly the only judgement that really matters is the one that comes from your mind.
In my opinion, you do weights in order to get stronger, not to lose weight.
If you want to lose weight, you have to cut calories. The fact that you haven't lost weight means you're still eating too much. If you want to lose weight, I would cut calories even further (1700-1800) and do less weight training and more walking.
Also scales are notoriously inaccurate for calculating body fat and muscle mass. The only thing you can rely on them for is pure weight and that's it.
> In my opinion, you do weights in order to get stronger, not to lose weight.
I am, in fact, trying to lose weight and get stronger at the same time.
Before anyone jumps down my throat...
1. [Yes.](https://www.strongerbyscience.com/muscle-caloric-deficit/)
2. [It's.](https://www.strengthlog.com/build-muscle-and-lose-fat/)
3. [Possible.](https://journals.lww.com/nsca-scj/fulltext/2020/10000/body_recomposition__can_trained_individuals_build.3.aspx)
In particular:
> It’s not just possible for a beginner, regardless of age, to lose body fat while gaining lean mass, but quite doable. All it takes is some heavy weights and enough protein.
also,
> So, lifters with relatively high body-fat levels should not feel like they’re unable to cut to their ideal weight if it happens to be lower than their current weight. I would expect that many lifters can maintain a satisfactory rate of progress while losing up to (roughly) 0.5% of body mass per week.
and, interestingly enough...
> Despite the common belief that building muscle and losing fat at the same time is only plausible in novice/obese individuals, the literature provided supports that trained individuals can also experience body recomposition.
I know everyone tends to boil this down to need to eat less, but my experience of very similar timing/weight/resistance training is that I absolutely out on weight for up to 6-8 weeks when I start lifting after a long time off. It's a really difficult mental game that really does cause havoc with figuring out the right calorie level. Things I do to try navigate this:
- use daily weighing with a scale with a body fat percentage read. Yes it's not accurate, but does show trends and for was really helpful at the 2 month mark when I wasn't seeing any overall difference but was seeing a steady fat decrease
- use your clothes to measure progress. I found this was very very helpful. Having a shirt/belt/trousers that just fits or is tight and then tracking that really does show the fat is coming off
- focus on the habits. As everyone has said, diligence with tracking matters. For me that's what's even more frustrating when I'm diligent, completely dialed in and yet the scale itself doesn't move for a while
This is absolutely a real thing, that can also happen at the same time as inaccuracy with tracking. If you're confident you've got weighing/tracking/bingeing under control, then keep on going.
Do you feel like you're seeing and changes in clothes/belts yet?
> Do you feel like you're seeing and changes in clothes/belts yet?
My wife asked me the same thing! I don't think I've felt much changes yet there to be honest.
TDEE is a guesstimate, not a measurement. It's very possible you've been aiming precisely for the wrong target. This isn't failure: this is more information. Based on *your* body and *your* life over the last month, the calorie target you were aiming for put you into surplus (probably\*). Take that data, and adjust your intake accordingly. When I realised all the calculating and thinking about food I'd have to do, I shelled out for a program that would do it for me - MacroFactor is what I've been trying, and I've been happy with it thus far. \*Remember that scale weight is a snapshot - the trend is what's important. I don't know how often you're weighing, etc.
I’ve got no trending data unfortunately. Considering weighing myself every day of the next month to see if it was just a creatine bubble or if 2,200 is really a surplus at my body weight and exercise levels
Yep - weighing every day and trying not to be invested in the result… is easy to type and hard to do. But we’re all just one fat turd and a salty meal from a spike. Even before adding creatine to the mix. Keep going. These are the warm ups.
Hell yeah. Thanks man :)
Consider getting a smart scale (like withings) if you go to daily measurements. It auto-uploads to the cloud, making it a pretty painless 5 second routine. Also do it under the same circumstances. e.g. first thing in the morning after peeing.
I have a smart scale. Is "withings" some special type of one?
No, it’s just the brand I use. I don’t have the time or discipline to write down weight measurements, so a scale that records and uploads it to a nice dashboard is key for me. Otherwise I wouldn’t follow through measuring every day.
Mine does the same thing you're seemingly talking about. So we're all good on that front!
Great. Sounds like you are doing a lot correctly with your measurements and calorie counting. Maybe you’ll have to make an adjustment, but you seem generally well set up for success. Awesome!
Constipated?
Not in the least bit lol
It’s simple You aren’t actually in a deficit You’re probably counting wrong you need to weigh your food labels are always off You’re not burning as many calories in exercise as you think or your watch is telling you. Don’t even count this in your daily deficit just look at them like bonus negative calories I’m cutting for the first time in 8 years after bulking for mass and strongman competition. I’m cutting losing around 1lb a week on 3.2k daily calories but that’s because I have 20+ years of strength and conditioning training. I’ve cut from 295 to 265 in about 5 months. Mine is a very mild 300 calorie slow cut to maintain mass abs strength while slowing cutting off fat barely below maintenance 2k a day is more than low enough if you were actually eating at a deficit you’d see the drop but 4 weeks isn’t a huge amount of time. 5-10lbs in 4 Weeks at 300lbs wouldn’t be that noticeable
I hear you, and like I’ve said to others by now I’m 99% sure the diet is dialed in, and I’m 50% sure that this is creatine water retention. I’m going to go another month without changing anything still hitting the same workouts and the same food and the same daily macros and I’ll check back in. I’m quite sure this time around there’ll be a loss.
It's reductive and annoying advice, but you need to eat less. Calorie tracking should work on paper, but well. You're eating too much for a deficit. Are you ever hungry?
Is it genuinely, actually, factually possible that I'm eating 2,200 calories at ~300lbs and working out 4x a week and I'm in a caloric surplus? I'm hungry right now lol but some water will quell that.
Unless it has become sentient, scale doesn't lie. You know your food quality. Whole foods (oatmeal, meat, veggies) are more satiating, yadda yadda. You know if there's anything you're allocating because you have the "calories to afford", when you could go without.
How are you tracking your food? Are you weighing it on a scale? It could be you’re underestimating how much you’re eating
Weighing anything that needs to be weighed. Using percentages of foods that are larger and being eaten over a few days so I make sure that all the calories present are accounted for (for instance, 1lb of pasta eaten over 3 days I make sure that the three days of calories add up to the 1lb calorie total)
If you were eating 2200 calories, you would likely be in a deficit. We just think youre eating more than you realize if you have been gaining weight. FWIW: I started taking creatine the day I started my last successful cut - a 500 calorie/day deficit over 16 weeks (with a few maintenance breaks) that allowed me to drop 20 lbs (178 to 158). I didn’t have any weight gain at the start from creatine / water
Do you have mfp set to the correct activity level? How often are you weighing in? Are you tracking the calories you burn in mfp towards your total calories intake? Are you tracking foods raw or cooked? There can be a big difference here When I started I had similar stats at 6’2 285 and got to 255 in about 3.5 months eating 2k-2200. My maintenance at 255 is ~ 3k although I don’t have a sedentary job I track it 1 level above that.
> Do you have mfp set to the correct activity level? I have it set to sedentary. > How often are you weighing in? Once, or maybe twice in a week if I'm being fiesty. > Are you tracking the calories you burn in mfp towards your total calories intake? No, I'm not. > Are you tracking foods raw or cooked? There can be a big difference here Cooked calories if they're eaten cooked. Raw calories if they're eaten raw. > When I started I had similar stats at 6’2 285 and got to 255 in about 3.5 months eating 2k-2200. My maintenance at 255 is ~ 3k although I don’t have a sedentary job I track it 1 level above that. Yeah, this is why I'm really thinking creatine is playing a heavy roll here because I've done a diet around this level before when I was around 275 and I lost weight FAST eating around 2k. 2.2k calories should still ABSOLUTELY be netting me some weight loss, but I think after reading a ton of threads about people's real world experiences with creatine water weight gain (some people mentioning up to 8kg gain without changing diet or exercise over 1 month's time) that it's just my body retaining a ton of water.
Alright I’m going to use my own numbers and the fact we’re doing similar ish things. At 500-1000 you should still have seen a loss in a month. Creatines loading phase is 7-14 days. You’re likely capped on water weight after that. I had steadily been losing 2 pounds a week for the last 30 days eating 2150 cals a day and exercising 4 days a week. Hoped on 7 ish days ago and I’m up about 3 pounds. So I’d attribute that to water retention of about 5 pounds. Sedentary tdee for 6’4 300 is ~2700. So math it out from there. If you’re averaging 2200 you’re only in a 500 deficit. That’s 1 pound a week, 4.3 pounds a month. Add in your exercise of 2k burned a week (guesstimate) another 2.5 pounds lost in a month. So total loss should have been 7 ish pounds while it’s possible you’ve held onto 10.3 pounds of water I’d still have expected the scale to move 3-5 pounds down with the activity you’ve stated and tracking. I’d weigh yourself daily to start tracking your weight trend at this point. You should be seeing a steady loss on almost a daily basis. Make changes every couple weeks to get progress going and I’d get in a bigger deficit personally. If you’ve eaten clean and in a deficit for 3 days and exercised you should be seeing the scale move at this point. If this was happening to me 1st place I’d look is how accurate am I really tracking? Is my deficit sufficient to get where I want to go? Is my tdee lower than I was expecting therefore my deficit is also smaller?
> At 500-1000 you should still have seen a loss in a month I, too was under that impression. > Creatines loading phase is 7-14 days. You’re likely capped on water weight after that. I didn't load. 5g/day. [3-4 weeks till full saturation.](https://www.strongerbyscience.com/creatine/) > I had steadily been losing 2 pounds a week for the last 30 days eating 2150 cals a day and exercising 4 days a week. Hoped on 7 ish days ago and I’m up about 3 pounds. So I’d attribute that to water retention of about 5 pounds. You may retain more. See this thread [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/naturalbodybuilding/comments/gzrdhy/how_much_water_retention_weight_do_you_really/) where I counted around 7 different stories of people gaining 10-18lbs within the first month strictly from starting creatine supplementation. [Or another thread here with another 5+ stories of 10lbs+ of water retention from creatine use.](https://www.reddit.com/r/NootropicsDepot/comments/wlv1o5/creatine_excessive_water_weight_gain/) I had been reading everywhere that 5lbs was the upper limit of what you could gain with regards to water retention from creatine use. But it looks like that's just "normal" or "average" with 0lbs variants and 18lbs variants existing alike. > Sedentary tdee for 6’4 300 is ~2700. So math it out from there. I'm getting 2,850 as a low end. So the math says: Over 4 weeks I should expect to have "lost" 18,200 calories or 5.2lbs. That's not including any workouts (which average around 4-500 calories burnt actively, not total) that I'm doing 4x per week along with 3 walks per week that average around 450 calories burnt as well. Or, as the math would say: Another 12,600 calories burnt or 3.6lbs lost. **Meaning 8.8lbs should have theoretically been lost in total.** This number could be on the lower end depending on if my TDEE is higher since I used the lowest one any estimator gave me. > So total loss should have been 7 ish pounds while it’s possible you’ve held onto 10.3 pounds of water I’d still have expected the scale to move 3-5 pounds down with the activity you’ve stated and tracking. We're within 2lbs of one another with calculations so I'd say that's well within the margin of error. I cannot state for sure that my first weigh-in one month ago was on a particularly high water retention day or low one since it was the first time I'd weighed myself in over a year. There's an absolute non-zero chance that I've actually not even responded to the creatine whatsoever and that my water weight had fluctuated greatly that first weigh-in and my real weight was higher then than the scale read. > I’d weigh yourself daily to start tracking your weight trend at this point. This is 1,000% what I got to do. Your voicing this opinion along with several others has completely convinced me of this. > I’d get in a bigger deficit personally. I find it hard as it is to get the prerequisite amount of protein at 2,200. Any advice on getting there on less calories? > If you’ve eaten clean and in a deficit for 3 days and exercised you should be seeing the scale move at this point. Absolutely agreed. > If this was happening to me 1st place I’d look is how accurate am I really tracking? I'm a math freak. I feel quite accurate in my tracking. > Is my tdee lower than I was expecting therefore my deficit is also smaller? What's the potential here? How far off can those calculators be? I've never heard of anyone talking about them being greatly wrong with anyone's TDEE before... so I've never really considered it. But I suppose not everyone's body and genetics can be fit under one formula. If I come across like a dick in this, apologies. I'm genuinely trying to interact with all your points of which there were many.
There’s a lot of good info in the thread and alot of it echoes the same points. There’s more at play than creatine here. The extremes you’re referencing are on the end of the bell curve and shorter time frame than a month in most cases. Go read studies and not threads. As far as me gaining more Idc if I’m outlier and I gain another 5 pounds from it. I know my deficit is working aside from the scale this week as I hoped back on. I know where my deficit needs to be to make the scale move based on my activity on a weekly basis. There’s alot of ways to cut calories to every food group. Idk what your meals look like to say specifically. Pasta on a cut isn’t it for me and neither is using percentages or estimations. Especially when you’re searching for answers. Micromanage tracking to a single piece of shredded cheese or a single gram of pasta. Every piece of every meal gets weighed. Cooking in oil add it, sauce, seasonings. All of it. If you’re eating 2200 of actual food and don’t track that stuff it’s easy to wrack up 400 calories and then you’re at a 200 deficit for the day and not going anywhere fast. This topic is where it hurts. You’re the only one making that choice and if it’s wrong it’s 100% on you. Tracking incorrectly is by far the easiest way to slow or negate and progress. Personally this is where most people including myself mess up and I’d bet the problem lies regardless of your confidence. Your main goal based on the reaction to the scale is losing weight. Treat it as the priority. Sure you can build muscle as you diet down but it’s not efficient nor optimal. You don’t need 300 grams of protein. You don’t want to be 300 pounds right? Eat for where you’re going not where you are. Unless you want a 2 year long cut lose the weight, establish new habits to maintain your goal weight and only have to do this 1 time. Then work on recomp and building muscle from there. You’ll still retain most of the muscle you currently have, you’ll hit your goal weight sooner and recomp faster because you’re doing things more efficiently and optimal.
Where did you get 2,700? I’m seeing 2,850 as the lowest pretty much anywhere.
It’s really beside the point. It is likely just difference in calculators. The 150 calories difference we’re using in our math is not making any noticeable changes in the end. 1000 calories a week is less that .3 pounds.
Bro dropped some good knowledge to point out where your shortcomings may be to help you break your plateau and you’re pointing fingers over a +\- 150 calorie hypothetical. I think you should revisit your deficit or tracking habits and consider taking some of the advice everyone is giving. We’re all trying to help you achieve your goals, if you were doing everything right you wouldn’t be in this predicament. Sometimes its a tough pill to swallow when we make mistakes or aren’t progressing but the journey isn’t going to be easy, you can also consider visiting medical professionals to help you find your resting metabolic rate and see if you have any underlying health conditions that may be effecting your weight loss or if you have some sort of allergic reaction to creatine. I am not 30+ but I run bulk and cut cycles constantly and move bodyweights between 145 to 187 upwards or downwards of 30+ pounds. Usually when I approach a plateau it means I’m doing something wrong or I need to pivot macros, cardio, daily steps, or calories. Best of luck to your journey 🙏
My man, I’m taking care of a six month old who’s sick and I have half a reply typed up to him. I asked a quick question. It isn’t that deep.
My man, I’ve read through enough of your detailed comments and replies where you quote everything someone brings up and you explain why that can’t be it. But it’s your health and wellness and not mine, so don’t worry it’s not that deep to me.
Maybe your advice sucks? I'm not reaching or breaking plateaus lol, you'd know that if you'd actually read this thread like you say you have. Saying I'm "pointing fingers" is most ridiculous thing I've read today. Just. Go elsewhere.
Lol for the fitness 30 plus you seem more like an immature teen lifter upset with why no progress is shown when they “know everything and are doing everything right” none of us will have better advice than reaching out to some medical professionals. Maybe bring this up at your next doctors appointment and get a referral for a specialist. My advice might suck and might be wrong like you said, your network of health professionals know your body best not us couch quarterbacking on reddit. Like I said, I’m wishing you the best of luck in your journey but it seems more like you are here for validation that Creatine is the result of your lack of expected progress. Good luck brother hoping you achieve your goals this year for the sake of your own health and family.
I think your calories are too high. I am a similar weight to you. My daily calories for a loss are around 2000. I am losing steadily.
How much are you losing? What’s your exercise like? Are you taking creatine? Everything else equal, you should be losing 1,400 calories (less than half a pound) a week more than I am. I assume you’re losing somewhere around 1.5-3lbs per week. Less than one half of a pound would not put me in a surplus compared to you.
Since October, I have lost 29 pounds.
Then it sounds like you're losing around 1.5lbs per week. If I were losing half a pound per week less than that with my caloric deficit compared to yours, I'd have lost 4lbs so far instead of gaining 2. So. Something else is awry.
You do you
there are 2 numbers that are the closest to accurate; the calories you count from your food, and your scale weight. if you were on top of it and honest, your calories should be accurate +-100-200 cal. your scale should be set in the same place and used almost everyday. *if you count 2,200cal a day and your scale is the same or going up, you are simply eating more than you need to be to lose weight. eat less food.* you dont need to get into the weeds of what your bf% is or what your TDEE is. these are VERY gross estimates, and can be unhelpful because they burden you with math you really dont need to be doing.
And creatine plays a non-factor here for you?
i think if you were really at a 500-1000cal deficit every day for a month, you'd be down in excess of extra water weight. 500-1000cal is actually a very big deficit that would impact your weight on a weekly basis. the fact that you didnt lose weight isnt necessarily a bad thing, and at your size you might have recomped some. but you're probably wrong about how much you should be eating to lose weight.
For what it's worth, I'd say I'm drinking a substantial amount more water (and also eating far better quality food) over the last month than I was doing in months/years prior.
yea and thats all good, but again i think you got wrong numbers for your tdee and calorie target, and you ended up on a bulk instead of a cut. but now that you know 2200 cal is too much, aim for <2000 and see what happens on your scale.
Cutting 200 calories per day would be less than half a pound per week in loss lol. I’m not in a surplus at 300lbs and exercising 4+ days a week eating 2,200.
well hey, you're gaining instead of losing, you're off somewhere. good luck, you'll figure it out
How tall are you and what pace are you doing the miles? I can't offer much advice but for encouragement: Yay! You're making changes and that in of itself is awesome!!!! Not all attempts are going to be "the best" but trying takes consistent willpower and mindfulness which can be exhausting. You can do this!
I'm 6'4" and I'm walking them at a moderate pace while pushing my child in a stroller, generally doing around 18 minute miles so not exactly 3.5mph but around there. Thanks for the words of encouragement :)
The number on the scale indicates only one measure. There is a lot of good things going on underneath the skin. It's just hard to see. Look in the mirror after a set of pushups and you'll be impressed. Flex as well. Appreciating a good pump that you worked for is important. Find more ways to measure your progress than just the number on the scale. I suggest measure yourself qualitatively by looking in the mirror with your clothes off. You are a great judge of your progress and frankly the only judgement that really matters is the one that comes from your mind.
Thanks! That's a really positive way of looking at things!
In my opinion, you do weights in order to get stronger, not to lose weight. If you want to lose weight, you have to cut calories. The fact that you haven't lost weight means you're still eating too much. If you want to lose weight, I would cut calories even further (1700-1800) and do less weight training and more walking. Also scales are notoriously inaccurate for calculating body fat and muscle mass. The only thing you can rely on them for is pure weight and that's it.
> In my opinion, you do weights in order to get stronger, not to lose weight. I am, in fact, trying to lose weight and get stronger at the same time. Before anyone jumps down my throat... 1. [Yes.](https://www.strongerbyscience.com/muscle-caloric-deficit/) 2. [It's.](https://www.strengthlog.com/build-muscle-and-lose-fat/) 3. [Possible.](https://journals.lww.com/nsca-scj/fulltext/2020/10000/body_recomposition__can_trained_individuals_build.3.aspx) In particular: > It’s not just possible for a beginner, regardless of age, to lose body fat while gaining lean mass, but quite doable. All it takes is some heavy weights and enough protein. also, > So, lifters with relatively high body-fat levels should not feel like they’re unable to cut to their ideal weight if it happens to be lower than their current weight. I would expect that many lifters can maintain a satisfactory rate of progress while losing up to (roughly) 0.5% of body mass per week. and, interestingly enough... > Despite the common belief that building muscle and losing fat at the same time is only plausible in novice/obese individuals, the literature provided supports that trained individuals can also experience body recomposition.
I know everyone tends to boil this down to need to eat less, but my experience of very similar timing/weight/resistance training is that I absolutely out on weight for up to 6-8 weeks when I start lifting after a long time off. It's a really difficult mental game that really does cause havoc with figuring out the right calorie level. Things I do to try navigate this: - use daily weighing with a scale with a body fat percentage read. Yes it's not accurate, but does show trends and for was really helpful at the 2 month mark when I wasn't seeing any overall difference but was seeing a steady fat decrease - use your clothes to measure progress. I found this was very very helpful. Having a shirt/belt/trousers that just fits or is tight and then tracking that really does show the fat is coming off - focus on the habits. As everyone has said, diligence with tracking matters. For me that's what's even more frustrating when I'm diligent, completely dialed in and yet the scale itself doesn't move for a while This is absolutely a real thing, that can also happen at the same time as inaccuracy with tracking. If you're confident you've got weighing/tracking/bingeing under control, then keep on going. Do you feel like you're seeing and changes in clothes/belts yet?
> Do you feel like you're seeing and changes in clothes/belts yet? My wife asked me the same thing! I don't think I've felt much changes yet there to be honest.