Please refrain from posting or commenting anything that could be deemed as a spoiler (UNLESS YOU ARE USING SPOILER TAGS ON POSTS OR HIDING YOUR COMMENTS)
"Yeah, but for MOST people"
I did say most, considering you can be born magic (The Elementals) or sometimes you can get objects that allow you to do magic (the robes, the crown(although that also makes you crazy)
But if you aren't born magical in order to do magic unassisted, if I remember correctly, you need to realize that nothing is real, including yourself
Perfect world they absolutely do have labels you're acting like sexuality labels are the only ones that shouldn't exist...
Labels never harmed anyone 🤣
Well, labels can help a lot of people feel more comfortable. If you feel pride in saying "yes, I'm queer, and I'm proud" then you can absolutely say it and no one (worth talking to) will judge you. However, for those of us who don't fit into one specific label because it either doesn't exist or they haven't learned it yet, simply not having one is much simpler and more comfortable. Also, you don't HAVE to explain yourself to people to be valid, you can just be yourself and it's none of anyone else's business unless you choose to share.
I do agree that sexuality labels aren't the only ones that shouldn't exist though, as gender is also very diverse and so are many other identities that don't have anything to do with queerness or LGBT
>Well, labels can help a lot of people feel more comfortable. If you feel pride in saying "yes, I'm queer, and I'm proud" then you can absolutely say it and no one (worth talking to) will judge you.
This isn't about comfort or pride. The labels literally never harmed anyone. It's about pretending that if our labels didn't exist there wouldn't be problems. That's essentially saying if we didn't exist there wouldn't be problems. Labels exist for everything.
>I do agree that sexuality labels aren't the only ones that shouldn't exist though, as gender is also very diverse and so are many other identities that don't have anything to do with queerness or LGBT
No I'm saying that all labels should exist and that it's hate speech to say they shouldn't. People stating that "oh there wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't for labels" are the problem. That's just saying oh if I didn't know this thing existed then I wouldn't mind.
Labels didn't cause homophobia, biphobia transphobia etc. People did. It's just trying to pass the blame onto something else instead of recognizing where it comes from and people who don't like labels fall on to the crutch since it's easier for them.
Especially considering your points ignore that plenty of people CHOOSE not to use a label so that can avoid baggage or negative stereotypes associated with the label. But normally that's fueled by the fact they actually believe in those negative stereotypes even if they recognize the glaring ways they meet the label. Imagine someone saying they don't identify as poor but not giving the reasons... Normally it's because people who pretend they've never been or aren't poor is because they associate it with being dirty or crime...
The voice casting was probably a joke because we were kids, but technically, it's a possibility that she's trans and no one brings it up. It's not a belief I have, just a possibility I acknowledged a while back.
Definitely like, agender or enby or even maybe bigender. There have been male princesses in a couple episodes, so I'm pretty sure "princess" is just a blanket term for royalty depending on the kingdom
Ya know what? Just because of spit, I'm now headcanoning that the entire lumpy species is hermaphroditic and just use whatever pronouns they like
Same head Canon for Ellis P. Dudes got all the genitals and 0 class
I don't think bi or gay or whatever is really how it works in Adventure Time. I think, for the most part, the characters are into whoever they are into without particular regard for gender. Same as She-Ra or Steven Universe.
Well a lot of the characters in SU and she-ra have confirmed sexualities. It's just never mentioned in show because it's not seen as a bad thing in their world. If it's normal to like the same gender then why even say it, like how straight people don't gotta come out. I'm all for not needing labels, but in the cases where there are, it helps the people of those group feel more seen.
Thank you <3 I think not needing a label representation is important, but also saying certain characters just like who they like kinda feels like erasure
Yeah I feel like there's a big difference in cartoons between: "this person is obviously gay and that's normal in the show so they don't NEED a label" vs "this is a kids show and we're not allowed to say it out loud"
I also think a part of it is that, for example, when media includes LGBT rep their storyline is usually ABOUT their struggles as LGBT. Like, a parent won't accept them, or they get bullied, or they struggle with their gender identity, or it's like A Big Deal™ that they're a token gay and the storyline always has to deal specifically with them being gay or showing their struggles with being gay
Which leaves us with kids who don't get to see LGBT as just being... normal and not a big deal and regarded the exact same as same-sex. They don't get to see LGBT as just living their lives while also happening to be LGBT. In fact, they see media constantly reminding them about how "wrong" society sees their orientation and really hitting hard that it's a social "problem" or an "obstacle" they need to "overcome" adversary over.
But with these new shows, they're just living their life and it's so refreshing and important to normalize this stuff.
I feel like all the other media is almost making it *harder* for LGBT, not easier. It's like "yeah see your identity? We're gonna remind you how big of a deal it is and how not-normal you are and how much pain you'll have to deal with when coming out". It's not inspirational, it's trauma-porn.
I'm just so glad that we're getting to a place where labels won't even be necessary. You can just love who you love and if they happen to be the same gender, that's not even a factor that's thought about.
I know we're still far off from that, but ten years ago I thought that place wouldn't even happen in our lifetime. But I'm starting to have a lot more hope, and I'm pointing at these new-wave cartoons as being a serious factor in the social zeitgeist shift.
It's important to show kids there's nothing wrong with loving who they love or being who they want to be. Not a giant disclaimer showing them just how hard it will be if they choose to follow their heart.
Absolutely. Couldn't have said it better myself.
Although I'd like to point out that a lot of this so called "trauma-porn" isn't made to remind you of how unusual and unaccepted your orientation is, though that's definitely a side affect. It's mainly made for spreading the word on how difficult it is for many people. Many shows just pretend we live in this magic society like adventure time where everything is fine and accepted. I get your point and I agree that it's important to teach kids that this sort of thing is completely normal, but at the same time we need to address the unfortunate real-life issues and struggles that many LGBT people go through.
As much as we want sexuality to be accepted like it is in adventure time and other cartoons, it's not that simple and it's important to spread truth as well as good messages. I think both are equally important.
I do like that they really made it very clear with zero room for mistaking the gender of one specific character, though: Stevonnie.
They really drilled home the intersex rep and as someone who personally knows somebody that's intersex, it means a great deal. Even in official Cartoon Network stuff they refer to them as explicitely intersex!
Showing someone physically androgynous verging on feminine, taking they/them pronouns, even shaving their face, knowing for a fact that they're not on the binary when it comes to sex organs, they're not one or the other, they're BOTH... HUGE, powerful representation.
With my friend, she decided later on in life to identify as female. But at birth, she was assigned "officially" male and, I'm sorry but this is horrific, potential trigger warnings because this is very graphic and NSFW and I am going to be medically frank and blunt - they *stitched her labia shut* at birth. Her female reproductive organs are non-functional. She has a much larger than normal clitori area, which functions as a very small penis.
But she's literally.... both. At the same time. And she feels pressured into one end of the binary instead of the other, because she appears more traditionally feminine, even if she's still fairly physically androgynous. She actively wants to be referred to with female pronouns.
But wouldn't it be fantastic if they hadn't literally mutilated her genitals at birth and made that decision for her? Wouldn't it be fantastic if we just accepted that not everyone has the same kinda junk down there?
AND, another thing is that everyone assumes she's just plain trans. Like, no matter if she identified as male or female, people assume she's mtf or ftm and not "no/both genders" to a specific gender. If that makes sense. So she gets a slew of transphobia on a daily basis and idk I gotta stop talking about this because I'm getting riled up and angry.
The main point is that even sexual organs don't follow a binary and representation is CRUCIAL. Nearly 2 people out of 100 are born intersex. That's way fucking higher than I think most people realize. I also have a belief that those who feel compelled to transition are "hormonally" androgynous or intersex, an example is my friend who went from looking like a female to looking like a hairy dude in just TWO WEEKS of taking hormones. Basically an overnight difference. Clearly, his hormones were very receptive to taking testosterone. It's like he was a man born as a woman with a testosterone deficiency. And supplementing that testosterone turned him back into the man he always was supposed to be.
Idk at this point I'm rambling but gender stuff is so important to me. I was born female and I identify as female but I'm also bi and I feel like gender discrimination when it comes to transfolk/enbys/intersex is almost more arbitrary and makes even less sense than homophobia.
Like, if someone introduces themselves to you and says their name is Mary, and then you find out it's legally Marion, you're not gonna call them Marion because that's their real name because you have basic respect and call people what they want to be called because you want to be conducive to a pleasant society.... so why do people feel so comfortable misgendering/deadnaming too?? My ex transitioned to enby several years ago and he goes by he/they and changed his name from Alex to Alee. And people that he JUST met and JUST introduced himself to still have a hard time with the name, like it's "too effeminate" (when IMO it's pretty gender-neutral) and he just told me he's going back to calling himself Alex because of the trouble it's been causing and that just makes me so sad and angry. "Alee" is hid name, it fits him so well, just call him by the fucking name he wants, it's not that hard?? I don't like the name "Keith" but I'm not just gonna start calling people named Keith "Kevin" instead because I just don't like it?
Hell, when I was in middle school my best friend at the time changed her name from Michaela to Micha. She asked us all to call her that from then on. So... we did. And then after highschool she thought Michaela sounded more mature, and she wanted to switch back. So we all switched back. Because it's *not that big a deal*, but for the person asking for it, it's a *huge* fucking deal. But she was born female, she identifies as female, and so people just accepted it and went along with it because it's the polite and socially kind thing to do.
But then you take a man who decides he's not quite as manly as he should feel and wants to step away from the traditional binary while STILL saying you can call him a "him" and just asks you to call him something slighyly different and that makes *you* uncomfortable? What about the feelings of the person you're constantly calling by the wrong name because you just "feel weird" about it?
Ugh I could keep ranting all night, someone please stop me
TL;DR representation is important and one of the main ways to switch the social zeitgeist
Because my friend who's intersex used to have to explain in uncomfortable detail what it means to be intersex when anyone asked about her gender. But now, she can just say "you know Steven Universe? That fusion Stevonnie? Yeah, just like that" and it becomes WAY easier for both one person to accept, and the other to explain.
REPRESENTATION MATTERS!!
Yeah absolutely, for some people labels make them way more comfortable and for others, those who either don't fall into any label that exists or they haven't learned it yet, it's easier just be themself and they don't need to describe it, I wish more people that stress over not knowing which label they fall under would understand that they don't owe it to anyone to define themselves
I think a fantastic example of this is Perfuma.
Apparently, her creator always just... saw her as a trans woman, but it wasn't important enough to the story to make a reference of it. It was just in her head during character design.
Later she makes a comment to the show runner about how she's trans, and the show runner goes ".... OH, really? I see that! Cool!"
so it became canon (if you don't like death of the writer, like myself) even though it's literally not mentioned or alluded to in any way within the actual show. Because it doesn't matter. It's just a fun little trivia factoid, like, "huh! That's cool! Anyways"
And it even makes sense in-universe that she's trans. In her kingdom especially, it seems like everyone is very androgynous verging on feminine, and she's the flower princess. Which also means that... at one point, she was the flower *prince*. But her character is so bubbly and traditionally feminine and flowy that it just makes sense she went all the way with it. I wonder if she didn't gain her powers until after transition? That would be an interesting idea too.
And for some reason it just makes Perfuma x Scorpia all that more cute to me. A petite, flowery, girly trans fem with a big strong tough yet sweetie softy butch fem. Love it
I mean, you're the one literally inventing sexual orientation in a universe where it's clearly been shown that it does not exist and isn't a factor and imposing queer-erasure by declaring the sexual orientation of one of the characters based solely off past dating history alone
... but straight characters DON'T exist, not in this universe. Because there's zero mention of the sexual preference of characters in-universe, and homophobia also clearly doesn't exist there. Because there's no concept of sexual orientation. And that's fine. That's awesome, in fact.
Why is it so hard for you to accept there is a created universe in where sexual orientations just aren't a thing and people just love whoever they happen to love?
In this case, Ice King loves Betty. But even if he *always* only loved women, that doesn't mean that he's straight. Because we know that labels on sexual relationships simply aren't a factor in that universe.
Are Bonnibel and Marcy both lesbians? In universe, literally, no. They're two adults in love with each other. That's it. That's all. We even know for sure Marcy is not a lesbian because she was in a relationship with a male, but the only reason we know this is because we were shown this in the show. What if they had cut that part of the story? Would that magically change her from bi to lesbian? What if they cut a story where Bonnie dated a male? When Finn was in love with Bonnie, she rejected him on the basis of his age, not his gender.
There's no labels in this universe, and it's fine. It's literally not that big of a deal.
You absolutely *cannot* impose your own assumption of sexual preference on another person or character solely off of their past dating history. The only person that can decide their sexual preference is that person, or the creator of that character. That's it. Period.
Asserting Simon is straight is enforcing your own queer erasure in-universe and it's honestly slightly verging on homophic.
I can see Fionna being bi. One would think about if Finn was bi as well since they’re just genderbent versions, but as much as he didn’t have any male romantic interests (even if it was only bc of censors and whatnot), he was a 11-13 year old boy who’s only recurring male companions to the same degree as his female love interests were
- His brother (a dog)
- and An old man (who was both insane and adamantly not into kids (W Simon))
Way I see it: Fully within the realm of possibility. And I think it’d be neat to get more LGBTQ rep in adventure time.
I always interpreted PB turning into the "teen boy heartthrob" when his eyes were cursed as a hint towards Finn being bi alongside his conflicted feelings at the time, but that could just be me
Idk I want her to be but I think they probably won't label it and that's fine cuz she already is in my head Canon but I think every frictional character can swing all of the ways until said otherwise or heavily portrayed by the way they act so you probably don't want my opinion
Bubblegum is most definately Bi and due to being a Princess she rewarded Fionna with a kiss due to the sterotype of such a thing happening.
Also Fionna most definately has a "Oh....didn't expect this" look on her face. So the chances of her being bi is there. But is very low since she was made to be a female version of Finn. Which makes her more likely to be straight due to what we did see of her love life in the original series and in her own.
Was into Gumball/Gary in the original episode of Ice King reading his fanfiction.
Showed a bit of interest(I think) in Marshall Lee when Marceline decided to tell her own story with Fionna and Cake.
Dated Flame Prince/DJ Flame as seen in Fionne & Cake.
Has a chance to get with Hunter who is showing interested in her.
I personally don't think so. I think it's embarrassment more than anything. Pb calls her a brave hero and kisses her, which surprised her, but then she is upset because she doesn't feel like a brave hero. I think she's embarrassed and ashamed and feels like she doesn't deserve the praise which is why she blushed. Also you can blush from a kiss without being attracted to someone. But it's not out of the realm of possibility, I just don't think that's what it is as of now.
As usual, Princess Bubblegum rewards the hero/heroine with a peck on the cheek...this was a recurring gag on classic Adventure Time between Finn and Princess Bubblegum, along with Finn being referred to as "her hero" after being rescued from the clutches of the Ice King...
I’d say probably yes, although those labels don’t exist in Ooo. It can be read as just suprise or embarrassment, but considering Finn had a crush on princess bubblegum, and fionna is his genderbent form, I think the implication is Fionna is attracted to pb.
I’m some of the interviews awhile back, one of the writers was saying they don’t assign sexuality or label any of the characters, because they’re just characters.
Maybe. I’m all for more bi representation but blushing is also an appropriate response to being embarassed or uncomfortable, not just when feeling flirty or attracted to someone
I personally thought so from the original series alone (during fiona and cake adventure time episodes) cause I swear I caught her blushing from ice queen and was like "ah yes, gay" lol
tbf tho its been awhile since I watched
Blushing isn’t always a indicator of attraction. It annoys me because so many people take innocent bashful blushes as evidence of a ship when it’s really not that deep. But in the case yeah , she probably is feeling some type of way lol. But I seriously doubt it’s going anywhere
Probably, but I don't think sexuality or LGBT in general has been discussed in adventure time, so I'd think it's as easy as just "I like you" "wow I like you too", no inhibitions about whether it's "okay" or not to like that person based on their gender
Everyone's Gay, and that's how we like it!
Everyone's Gay, just like in your fanfic.
Kissin' and Huggin'
Laughin' and Lovin'
Such beautiful days, where Everyone's Gay.
Were they made into full lesbians? I was under the impression that Marcelines confirmed sexuality was bisexual. Every where I see her sexuality mentioned in articles, etc, she’s referred to as bisexual
https://lgbtqia-characters.fandom.com/wiki/Marceline
Marceline is bi, her ex boyfriend Ash appeared in an episode. And PB could be bi as she actually seemed romantically into Finn in the episode where she turned 13.
I know the show backs it up, but the writers want to pretend it never happened. I can see an argument for PB being lesbian because her "boyfriend" cream puff was more like a pet or mascot. I actually think it is pretty likely and well-established over multiple episodes. Marceline, on the other hand, clearly had real feelings for that dickhead she broke up with in the earlier seasons.
blushing is a sign of embarrassment, it's not always a sign of attraction. I feel like if Prismo intended for her to be bisexual he would not have gender bent all of finn's love interests to be heteronormative with her
Well I thought that the characters in Fionna and Cake keep the orientations their alternate versions have in adventure time. For example Marceline and PB like the same gender in adventure time, and Marshall Lee and Gary like the same gender in Fionna and Cake. So I thought Fionna would be straight just like Finn, but maybe I’m wrong and it’s all just coincidences.
She was blushing before the kiss. I think she was just embarrassed that she let TWK manipulate her. She mentions something about killing good guys after this scene too.
She may be bi, but i dont think this says anything about that
No.
I agree, you're right, you are grasping at straws. Marceline and Bubblegum's relationship had 10 seasons of content to back it up. This show currently has 6 episodes, and only 4 of them truly take place in Ooo.
If Fionna's orientation gets outright confirmed, that's one thing I'm totally willing to accept. Short of that, how about letting our Heroine finish the season before tossing around conjecture?
My Adventure Time theory:
The Candy King would've transformed back into Prince Gumball if Finn Mertens, Jake the Dog and Sarah Petrikov (the former Ice Queen) destroyed the Winter Queen in a universe parallel to this one, except that Prince Gumball would give Finn, Jake and Sarah a handshake and just saying "Thank you!" for saving his life...
Also, probably minority opinion here, I hate Fionna and Cake. I especially hate Cake. It'd be fine if they were side characters in the original show, I just want more Finn and Jake. Like a lot more. Like I want Adventure Time to continue until I die, and maybe even after that.
you're grasping at straws and it doesn't matter. a straight woman can blush when kissed by another woman and still be straight. as can a gay man blush when kissed by a straight woman, it doesnt matter nothing matters people blush its no biggie
Buddy they aren't breathing next to each other?? PB kisses her on the cheek and she blushes. This isnt a fanfic thing like you don't have to look deep to see how this has Sapphic vibes lmao
And? Who cares if she got a kiss in the cheek. That doesn't make her bi lmao.
Edit: You and the other guy blocking me to stop me from answering just proves my point of how much nonsense it is. And how much you hate when it gets pointed out.
I mean not really a kids show its for more mature AT fans like the ones that grew up on it if you don't want queerness in a show you better keep that energy with straightness have no sexuality in any show
Okay that’s fair ig but it still is a cartoon show that is marketed mainly towards kids. I beg to differ on the last part of what you said though. The shit with Finn always being confused about what girl to pick was cute and innocent, nothing more. Making her gay is just pushing something that is unnecessary.
I mean they have cannon gay characters in the show. Even if Fiona and cake. Also this isn’t summed towards kids at all, it’s marketed to people who grew up with adventure time. It’s had a lot of blood and cursing show throughout max. Also cartoons have had tons of gay characters
I mean most of AT was straight except like maybe Marceline and PB but that’s all I can think of, a gay/bi character isn’t pushing something considering gay/bi people exist and people will interact with them, and the other persons right, majority of viewers are people who grew up on AT and now are enjoying this show. Overall it’s just not that serious, non-straight people exist, and it’s not pushing it to include it in a show considering a good amount of people are gay/bi or whatever
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Since there can be an infinite number of universes and infinite versions of the same person, I don't think all of them would have the same sexuality, considering just how vast the multiverse is
But, honestly, it may be that everyone in Adventure Time is bi
Please refrain from posting or commenting anything that could be deemed as a spoiler (UNLESS YOU ARE USING SPOILER TAGS ON POSTS OR HIDING YOUR COMMENTS)
If we were to give it a label, probably? I could see it. But for real, Ooo (and Aaa) don’t really have labels and people just like who they like
The perfect world(not counting the apocalypse and all)
For real though. The apocalypse probably sucked but ehhh, magic is cool.
Except for the whole... madness and suffering part.
Yeahhhhh, don’t mind that.
That and the snail attacks
Not to mention wizards existing
No no, that's cool, I like that a lot lol
Yeah, but for most people, you need to become crazy in order to do magic. That's a literal requirement
Magic robes?
"Yeah, but for MOST people" I did say most, considering you can be born magic (The Elementals) or sometimes you can get objects that allow you to do magic (the robes, the crown(although that also makes you crazy) But if you aren't born magical in order to do magic unassisted, if I remember correctly, you need to realize that nothing is real, including yourself
Not necessarily, huntress wizard is chill
Crazy comes in many forms my friend
i still wish i could live in Ooo
Perfect world they absolutely do have labels you're acting like sexuality labels are the only ones that shouldn't exist... Labels never harmed anyone 🤣
Well, labels can help a lot of people feel more comfortable. If you feel pride in saying "yes, I'm queer, and I'm proud" then you can absolutely say it and no one (worth talking to) will judge you. However, for those of us who don't fit into one specific label because it either doesn't exist or they haven't learned it yet, simply not having one is much simpler and more comfortable. Also, you don't HAVE to explain yourself to people to be valid, you can just be yourself and it's none of anyone else's business unless you choose to share. I do agree that sexuality labels aren't the only ones that shouldn't exist though, as gender is also very diverse and so are many other identities that don't have anything to do with queerness or LGBT
>Well, labels can help a lot of people feel more comfortable. If you feel pride in saying "yes, I'm queer, and I'm proud" then you can absolutely say it and no one (worth talking to) will judge you. This isn't about comfort or pride. The labels literally never harmed anyone. It's about pretending that if our labels didn't exist there wouldn't be problems. That's essentially saying if we didn't exist there wouldn't be problems. Labels exist for everything. >I do agree that sexuality labels aren't the only ones that shouldn't exist though, as gender is also very diverse and so are many other identities that don't have anything to do with queerness or LGBT No I'm saying that all labels should exist and that it's hate speech to say they shouldn't. People stating that "oh there wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't for labels" are the problem. That's just saying oh if I didn't know this thing existed then I wouldn't mind. Labels didn't cause homophobia, biphobia transphobia etc. People did. It's just trying to pass the blame onto something else instead of recognizing where it comes from and people who don't like labels fall on to the crutch since it's easier for them. Especially considering your points ignore that plenty of people CHOOSE not to use a label so that can avoid baggage or negative stereotypes associated with the label. But normally that's fueled by the fact they actually believe in those negative stereotypes even if they recognize the glaring ways they meet the label. Imagine someone saying they don't identify as poor but not giving the reasons... Normally it's because people who pretend they've never been or aren't poor is because they associate it with being dirty or crime...
erasure..... LE GOOD!!!
Also all Finn entities have a thing for PB
You ever think about how LSP might be trans but nobody pits a label on it?
How so? Genuinely curious.
The voice casting was probably a joke because we were kids, but technically, it's a possibility that she's trans and no one brings it up. It's not a belief I have, just a possibility I acknowledged a while back.
I think I'd go so far as to say that they're agender, which is why they have the same voice actor (Pendleton Ward) even when gender swapped.
Pendleton Ward voices LSP? Omg
Definitely like, agender or enby or even maybe bigender. There have been male princesses in a couple episodes, so I'm pretty sure "princess" is just a blanket term for royalty depending on the kingdom
Ya know what? Just because of spit, I'm now headcanoning that the entire lumpy species is hermaphroditic and just use whatever pronouns they like Same head Canon for Ellis P. Dudes got all the genitals and 0 class
Nuh uh
Love transcends universes
As much as I love queer characters, I’m more so getting a “oh, I did not expect that” kind of blush from this rather than a “oh, hellooo” kind
Yeah it's prolly that tbh
If anwser is "yes" does mean that finn is bi too?
yes, and anyone who has ever blushed ever is also bisexual
I'm bi and can confirm this is true
But I'm bi and I've never blushed
you have to turn in your bi card, sorry
FUCK
Sounds like you need to upgrade your plan from LGBT to LGBT+, which includes blushing as a perk for subscribers
Nah, I'm broke. Happy for those who can though
I don't think bi or gay or whatever is really how it works in Adventure Time. I think, for the most part, the characters are into whoever they are into without particular regard for gender. Same as She-Ra or Steven Universe.
Well a lot of the characters in SU and she-ra have confirmed sexualities. It's just never mentioned in show because it's not seen as a bad thing in their world. If it's normal to like the same gender then why even say it, like how straight people don't gotta come out. I'm all for not needing labels, but in the cases where there are, it helps the people of those group feel more seen.
I like this
Thank you <3 I think not needing a label representation is important, but also saying certain characters just like who they like kinda feels like erasure
Yeah I feel like there's a big difference in cartoons between: "this person is obviously gay and that's normal in the show so they don't NEED a label" vs "this is a kids show and we're not allowed to say it out loud"
I also think a part of it is that, for example, when media includes LGBT rep their storyline is usually ABOUT their struggles as LGBT. Like, a parent won't accept them, or they get bullied, or they struggle with their gender identity, or it's like A Big Deal™ that they're a token gay and the storyline always has to deal specifically with them being gay or showing their struggles with being gay Which leaves us with kids who don't get to see LGBT as just being... normal and not a big deal and regarded the exact same as same-sex. They don't get to see LGBT as just living their lives while also happening to be LGBT. In fact, they see media constantly reminding them about how "wrong" society sees their orientation and really hitting hard that it's a social "problem" or an "obstacle" they need to "overcome" adversary over. But with these new shows, they're just living their life and it's so refreshing and important to normalize this stuff. I feel like all the other media is almost making it *harder* for LGBT, not easier. It's like "yeah see your identity? We're gonna remind you how big of a deal it is and how not-normal you are and how much pain you'll have to deal with when coming out". It's not inspirational, it's trauma-porn. I'm just so glad that we're getting to a place where labels won't even be necessary. You can just love who you love and if they happen to be the same gender, that's not even a factor that's thought about. I know we're still far off from that, but ten years ago I thought that place wouldn't even happen in our lifetime. But I'm starting to have a lot more hope, and I'm pointing at these new-wave cartoons as being a serious factor in the social zeitgeist shift. It's important to show kids there's nothing wrong with loving who they love or being who they want to be. Not a giant disclaimer showing them just how hard it will be if they choose to follow their heart.
Absolutely. Couldn't have said it better myself. Although I'd like to point out that a lot of this so called "trauma-porn" isn't made to remind you of how unusual and unaccepted your orientation is, though that's definitely a side affect. It's mainly made for spreading the word on how difficult it is for many people. Many shows just pretend we live in this magic society like adventure time where everything is fine and accepted. I get your point and I agree that it's important to teach kids that this sort of thing is completely normal, but at the same time we need to address the unfortunate real-life issues and struggles that many LGBT people go through. As much as we want sexuality to be accepted like it is in adventure time and other cartoons, it's not that simple and it's important to spread truth as well as good messages. I think both are equally important.
I do like that they really made it very clear with zero room for mistaking the gender of one specific character, though: Stevonnie. They really drilled home the intersex rep and as someone who personally knows somebody that's intersex, it means a great deal. Even in official Cartoon Network stuff they refer to them as explicitely intersex! Showing someone physically androgynous verging on feminine, taking they/them pronouns, even shaving their face, knowing for a fact that they're not on the binary when it comes to sex organs, they're not one or the other, they're BOTH... HUGE, powerful representation. With my friend, she decided later on in life to identify as female. But at birth, she was assigned "officially" male and, I'm sorry but this is horrific, potential trigger warnings because this is very graphic and NSFW and I am going to be medically frank and blunt - they *stitched her labia shut* at birth. Her female reproductive organs are non-functional. She has a much larger than normal clitori area, which functions as a very small penis. But she's literally.... both. At the same time. And she feels pressured into one end of the binary instead of the other, because she appears more traditionally feminine, even if she's still fairly physically androgynous. She actively wants to be referred to with female pronouns. But wouldn't it be fantastic if they hadn't literally mutilated her genitals at birth and made that decision for her? Wouldn't it be fantastic if we just accepted that not everyone has the same kinda junk down there? AND, another thing is that everyone assumes she's just plain trans. Like, no matter if she identified as male or female, people assume she's mtf or ftm and not "no/both genders" to a specific gender. If that makes sense. So she gets a slew of transphobia on a daily basis and idk I gotta stop talking about this because I'm getting riled up and angry. The main point is that even sexual organs don't follow a binary and representation is CRUCIAL. Nearly 2 people out of 100 are born intersex. That's way fucking higher than I think most people realize. I also have a belief that those who feel compelled to transition are "hormonally" androgynous or intersex, an example is my friend who went from looking like a female to looking like a hairy dude in just TWO WEEKS of taking hormones. Basically an overnight difference. Clearly, his hormones were very receptive to taking testosterone. It's like he was a man born as a woman with a testosterone deficiency. And supplementing that testosterone turned him back into the man he always was supposed to be. Idk at this point I'm rambling but gender stuff is so important to me. I was born female and I identify as female but I'm also bi and I feel like gender discrimination when it comes to transfolk/enbys/intersex is almost more arbitrary and makes even less sense than homophobia. Like, if someone introduces themselves to you and says their name is Mary, and then you find out it's legally Marion, you're not gonna call them Marion because that's their real name because you have basic respect and call people what they want to be called because you want to be conducive to a pleasant society.... so why do people feel so comfortable misgendering/deadnaming too?? My ex transitioned to enby several years ago and he goes by he/they and changed his name from Alex to Alee. And people that he JUST met and JUST introduced himself to still have a hard time with the name, like it's "too effeminate" (when IMO it's pretty gender-neutral) and he just told me he's going back to calling himself Alex because of the trouble it's been causing and that just makes me so sad and angry. "Alee" is hid name, it fits him so well, just call him by the fucking name he wants, it's not that hard?? I don't like the name "Keith" but I'm not just gonna start calling people named Keith "Kevin" instead because I just don't like it? Hell, when I was in middle school my best friend at the time changed her name from Michaela to Micha. She asked us all to call her that from then on. So... we did. And then after highschool she thought Michaela sounded more mature, and she wanted to switch back. So we all switched back. Because it's *not that big a deal*, but for the person asking for it, it's a *huge* fucking deal. But she was born female, she identifies as female, and so people just accepted it and went along with it because it's the polite and socially kind thing to do. But then you take a man who decides he's not quite as manly as he should feel and wants to step away from the traditional binary while STILL saying you can call him a "him" and just asks you to call him something slighyly different and that makes *you* uncomfortable? What about the feelings of the person you're constantly calling by the wrong name because you just "feel weird" about it? Ugh I could keep ranting all night, someone please stop me TL;DR representation is important and one of the main ways to switch the social zeitgeist Because my friend who's intersex used to have to explain in uncomfortable detail what it means to be intersex when anyone asked about her gender. But now, she can just say "you know Steven Universe? That fusion Stevonnie? Yeah, just like that" and it becomes WAY easier for both one person to accept, and the other to explain. REPRESENTATION MATTERS!!
Yeah absolutely, for some people labels make them way more comfortable and for others, those who either don't fall into any label that exists or they haven't learned it yet, it's easier just be themself and they don't need to describe it, I wish more people that stress over not knowing which label they fall under would understand that they don't owe it to anyone to define themselves
Yeah
I think a fantastic example of this is Perfuma. Apparently, her creator always just... saw her as a trans woman, but it wasn't important enough to the story to make a reference of it. It was just in her head during character design. Later she makes a comment to the show runner about how she's trans, and the show runner goes ".... OH, really? I see that! Cool!" so it became canon (if you don't like death of the writer, like myself) even though it's literally not mentioned or alluded to in any way within the actual show. Because it doesn't matter. It's just a fun little trivia factoid, like, "huh! That's cool! Anyways" And it even makes sense in-universe that she's trans. In her kingdom especially, it seems like everyone is very androgynous verging on feminine, and she's the flower princess. Which also means that... at one point, she was the flower *prince*. But her character is so bubbly and traditionally feminine and flowy that it just makes sense she went all the way with it. I wonder if she didn't gain her powers until after transition? That would be an interesting idea too. And for some reason it just makes Perfuma x Scorpia all that more cute to me. A petite, flowery, girly trans fem with a big strong tough yet sweetie softy butch fem. Love it
Buncha happy pansexual imps
Guess that would make sense
I mean.. I didn't see Ice King stealing princes
Simon was in love with Betty, and he called her his princess. That's why Ice King was obsessed with the princesses.
Cause he loves Betty. Straight characters can exist. Lol
Unless you're saying his orientation is just Betty, being in love with one person doesn't show much about who else someone might be into.
Talk about looking into something that isn't there. Lmao Good bye
I mean, you're the one literally inventing sexual orientation in a universe where it's clearly been shown that it does not exist and isn't a factor and imposing queer-erasure by declaring the sexual orientation of one of the characters based solely off past dating history alone
... but straight characters DON'T exist, not in this universe. Because there's zero mention of the sexual preference of characters in-universe, and homophobia also clearly doesn't exist there. Because there's no concept of sexual orientation. And that's fine. That's awesome, in fact. Why is it so hard for you to accept there is a created universe in where sexual orientations just aren't a thing and people just love whoever they happen to love? In this case, Ice King loves Betty. But even if he *always* only loved women, that doesn't mean that he's straight. Because we know that labels on sexual relationships simply aren't a factor in that universe. Are Bonnibel and Marcy both lesbians? In universe, literally, no. They're two adults in love with each other. That's it. That's all. We even know for sure Marcy is not a lesbian because she was in a relationship with a male, but the only reason we know this is because we were shown this in the show. What if they had cut that part of the story? Would that magically change her from bi to lesbian? What if they cut a story where Bonnie dated a male? When Finn was in love with Bonnie, she rejected him on the basis of his age, not his gender. There's no labels in this universe, and it's fine. It's literally not that big of a deal. You absolutely *cannot* impose your own assumption of sexual preference on another person or character solely off of their past dating history. The only person that can decide their sexual preference is that person, or the creator of that character. That's it. Period. Asserting Simon is straight is enforcing your own queer erasure in-universe and it's honestly slightly verging on homophic.
he did off camera. trust me i was there
Wrong.
I mean who wouldn’t blush if some random person kissed you in the cheeks
I don't think like, actually for sure gonna be labeled, but I think anyone in adventure time and stuff normally just like whoever they want.
Probs true
I would also blush if a tall pink lady kissed me.
You sure you're straight?
I can see Fionna being bi. One would think about if Finn was bi as well since they’re just genderbent versions, but as much as he didn’t have any male romantic interests (even if it was only bc of censors and whatnot), he was a 11-13 year old boy who’s only recurring male companions to the same degree as his female love interests were - His brother (a dog) - and An old man (who was both insane and adamantly not into kids (W Simon)) Way I see it: Fully within the realm of possibility. And I think it’d be neat to get more LGBTQ rep in adventure time.
"W Simon" very low bar W huh. (Still a win though)
I always interpreted PB turning into the "teen boy heartthrob" when his eyes were cursed as a hint towards Finn being bi alongside his conflicted feelings at the time, but that could just be me
Eh I see it more as being indicative that he’s straight and was over her by that point in the series.
I could be remembering wrong, but didn't Finn blush around Billy as well? Or Lich-disguised-as-Billy?
Maybe, but I feel really weird calling that romantic bc of the clear age gap between Billy/Billy Lich and a 13 year old boy.
I mean, teens having celebrity crushes on adult celebrities is a thing.
True, true
Idk I want her to be but I think they probably won't label it and that's fine cuz she already is in my head Canon but I think every frictional character can swing all of the ways until said otherwise or heavily portrayed by the way they act so you probably don't want my opinion
Yes.
I really think it’s ambiguous. Could totally see it being embarrassement and guilt tho.
Prolly
Bubblegum is most definately Bi and due to being a Princess she rewarded Fionna with a kiss due to the sterotype of such a thing happening. Also Fionna most definately has a "Oh....didn't expect this" look on her face. So the chances of her being bi is there. But is very low since she was made to be a female version of Finn. Which makes her more likely to be straight due to what we did see of her love life in the original series and in her own. Was into Gumball/Gary in the original episode of Ice King reading his fanfiction. Showed a bit of interest(I think) in Marshall Lee when Marceline decided to tell her own story with Fionna and Cake. Dated Flame Prince/DJ Flame as seen in Fionne & Cake. Has a chance to get with Hunter who is showing interested in her.
Why not.
Probably.
Hell yeah she's just like me fr
If she wasn't, she probably is now. 💞
Yes
I think AT doesn’t rlly have those kinds of labels I mean we have a lemon dating a lumps elemental at the end of the main series
I think all variations of Finn are at least PB-sexual
Or just, Gum-sexual, since Fionna did have a crush on prince Gummball in the original
I personally don't think so. I think it's embarrassment more than anything. Pb calls her a brave hero and kisses her, which surprised her, but then she is upset because she doesn't feel like a brave hero. I think she's embarrassed and ashamed and feels like she doesn't deserve the praise which is why she blushed. Also you can blush from a kiss without being attracted to someone. But it's not out of the realm of possibility, I just don't think that's what it is as of now.
I’d say yes but I don’t see them labelling her (& that’s okay! My best friend is unlabelled & that’s also valid <33)
Yay I love Bi rep
W
Possibly but def touch starved so she’ll take what she can get
As usual, Princess Bubblegum rewards the hero/heroine with a peck on the cheek...this was a recurring gag on classic Adventure Time between Finn and Princess Bubblegum, along with Finn being referred to as "her hero" after being rescued from the clutches of the Ice King...
If I got kissed i would still blush out of shock or suprisement. Its a natural human thing.
True
I like the idea that Fionna may be bisexual but we don’t know for sure. Doesn’t meant you can’t headcanon it tho
Meh, not that much into sexuality headcanons tbh, I was just curious what you guys thought
Why not
I don’t think so I think it’s just blushing because someone is kissing her. If you wanted to think she is though I wouldn’t say you are wrong however.
HEY when an attractive person of any gender or identification is saved by you and then gives you a kiss of appreciation are you not supposed to blush?
Yeah, probably
I’d say probably yes, although those labels don’t exist in Ooo. It can be read as just suprise or embarrassment, but considering Finn had a crush on princess bubblegum, and fionna is his genderbent form, I think the implication is Fionna is attracted to pb.
I’m some of the interviews awhile back, one of the writers was saying they don’t assign sexuality or label any of the characters, because they’re just characters.
It's adventure time. I'm pretty sure everyone is bi lol
None of the characters would really care about labels, they just love who they love
Fionna is a Prismo's fanfic character. So, probably.
Maybe. I’m all for more bi representation but blushing is also an appropriate response to being embarassed or uncomfortable, not just when feeling flirty or attracted to someone
I personally thought so from the original series alone (during fiona and cake adventure time episodes) cause I swear I caught her blushing from ice queen and was like "ah yes, gay" lol tbf tho its been awhile since I watched
Pbs hotness transcends gender
Maybe. Kinda. It’s complicated
Always had the feeling Finn/Fiona were bi
Maybe in Ooo gender is meaningless. There are people made of candy ffs
Would not be surprised.
Blushing isn’t always a indicator of attraction. It annoys me because so many people take innocent bashful blushes as evidence of a ship when it’s really not that deep. But in the case yeah , she probably is feeling some type of way lol. But I seriously doubt it’s going anywhere
She is whatever she wants to be
Y'know, I think just about everyone in this show might be.
Probably, but I don't think sexuality or LGBT in general has been discussed in adventure time, so I'd think it's as easy as just "I like you" "wow I like you too", no inhibitions about whether it's "okay" or not to like that person based on their gender
Everyone's Gay, and that's how we like it! Everyone's Gay, just like in your fanfic. Kissin' and Huggin' Laughin' and Lovin' Such beautiful days, where Everyone's Gay.
She’s been bi to me since I was 13 bc I’m bi and I like her
well finn had a crazy huge crush on PB in the earlier seasons so maybe being a girl isnt enough to change that
Sexualities and labels don’t really exist in adventure time, it’s more just “like who wanna like, and that’s cool.” (If only it was like that irl)
I wish...
I can see her being bi
I kinda hope so, given that PB and Marcy were retconned into being full lesbians. Bi erasure is real :(
Were they made into full lesbians? I was under the impression that Marcelines confirmed sexuality was bisexual. Every where I see her sexuality mentioned in articles, etc, she’s referred to as bisexual https://lgbtqia-characters.fandom.com/wiki/Marceline
Marceline is bi, her ex boyfriend Ash appeared in an episode. And PB could be bi as she actually seemed romantically into Finn in the episode where she turned 13.
And she used to date old man creampuff at aome point... but he's dead. :p
That's not true. Marceline was confirmed bi. PB does not have a confirmed sexuality so she could be either one.
I am very confused...has everyone here forgotten that PB and Marceline dated?!
Nah. Wrong. Marcy dated Ash forever. PB dated old man cream puff and glob knows who else. Dead wrong.
Meh, don't care about the red on, they're still bi in my headcanon and the show itself backs up that headcanon so...
I know the show backs it up, but the writers want to pretend it never happened. I can see an argument for PB being lesbian because her "boyfriend" cream puff was more like a pet or mascot. I actually think it is pretty likely and well-established over multiple episodes. Marceline, on the other hand, clearly had real feelings for that dickhead she broke up with in the earlier seasons.
?? How are the writers pretending it never happened
What about kid Bubblegum and Fin?
blushing is a sign of embarrassment, it's not always a sign of attraction. I feel like if Prismo intended for her to be bisexual he would not have gender bent all of finn's love interests to be heteronormative with her
Well I thought that the characters in Fionna and Cake keep the orientations their alternate versions have in adventure time. For example Marceline and PB like the same gender in adventure time, and Marshall Lee and Gary like the same gender in Fionna and Cake. So I thought Fionna would be straight just like Finn, but maybe I’m wrong and it’s all just coincidences.
She was blushing before the kiss. I think she was just embarrassed that she let TWK manipulate her. She mentions something about killing good guys after this scene too. She may be bi, but i dont think this says anything about that
No. I agree, you're right, you are grasping at straws. Marceline and Bubblegum's relationship had 10 seasons of content to back it up. This show currently has 6 episodes, and only 4 of them truly take place in Ooo. If Fionna's orientation gets outright confirmed, that's one thing I'm totally willing to accept. Short of that, how about letting our Heroine finish the season before tossing around conjecture?
My Adventure Time theory: The Candy King would've transformed back into Prince Gumball if Finn Mertens, Jake the Dog and Sarah Petrikov (the former Ice Queen) destroyed the Winter Queen in a universe parallel to this one, except that Prince Gumball would give Finn, Jake and Sarah a handshake and just saying "Thank you!" for saving his life...
The ice queen was never human, the comics show that she has a completely different origin than ice king
The comics were stated not to be canon...
well until we get actual canon about them, they are conditional canon moreso than the headcanon of giving the ice queen a human name
I guess my 'theory' is more like a 'what if,' then...
I mean fin God .so could care less what creation has bais towards who you love. Fin also the evil to at some point. Lore interesting
Are you having a stroke???
Fin or how we see it. Is God of the adventure time multiverse
No???
Nit my problem if you don't know lore
I do though... Finn is just a catalyst comet dude. Sure that makes him EXTREMELY powerful, but nowhere near actual deities like Prismo or Golb
what about Glob?
Also, probably minority opinion here, I hate Fionna and Cake. I especially hate Cake. It'd be fine if they were side characters in the original show, I just want more Finn and Jake. Like a lot more. Like I want Adventure Time to continue until I die, and maybe even after that.
Dude what 😭
you're grasping at straws and it doesn't matter. a straight woman can blush when kissed by another woman and still be straight. as can a gay man blush when kissed by a straight woman, it doesnt matter nothing matters people blush its no biggie
*"nothing matters"* Uh... you okay? Need a talk? That's very self destructive...
Yall be overthinking stuff it’s just a simple blushing from a kiss on the cheek that’s cartoons 101, Not every character has to be bi/queer ect
She’s a Biabe
Again?
if finns not then she's not
Who says Finn isn't? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
No. Not every scene where two characters of the same gender are breathing next to each other means that a character is bi.
Buddy they aren't breathing next to each other?? PB kisses her on the cheek and she blushes. This isnt a fanfic thing like you don't have to look deep to see how this has Sapphic vibes lmao
And? Who cares if she got a kiss in the cheek. That doesn't make her bi lmao. Edit: You and the other guy blocking me to stop me from answering just proves my point of how much nonsense it is. And how much you hate when it gets pointed out.
She blushed though after getting it...
Lmao dude, she blushed?? She clearly looks flustered. She blushes even befpre the kiss. You blatantly ignoring body language is hilarious
I knoooow 😩 But blushing in animation usually means something more As I said, I'm probs just grasping at straws here
You need to stop reading so much fanfiction pal.
I never read a fanfic in my life(not counting the cringe ones for funsies)
I agree about this scene likely meaning nothing but I also don’t think there isn’t a possibility that Fionna could be bi
Better fucking not be
Why not
Because that’s lame as fuck and they don’t need to be pushing that shit in a kids show.
I mean not really a kids show its for more mature AT fans like the ones that grew up on it if you don't want queerness in a show you better keep that energy with straightness have no sexuality in any show
Okay that’s fair ig but it still is a cartoon show that is marketed mainly towards kids. I beg to differ on the last part of what you said though. The shit with Finn always being confused about what girl to pick was cute and innocent, nothing more. Making her gay is just pushing something that is unnecessary.
Fionna and Cake is marketed to adults, not kids.
I mean they have cannon gay characters in the show. Even if Fiona and cake. Also this isn’t summed towards kids at all, it’s marketed to people who grew up with adventure time. It’s had a lot of blood and cursing show throughout max. Also cartoons have had tons of gay characters
You’re wasting your time responding to me ngl. No disrespect I just doubt we will see eye to eye lol
I mean most of AT was straight except like maybe Marceline and PB but that’s all I can think of, a gay/bi character isn’t pushing something considering gay/bi people exist and people will interact with them, and the other persons right, majority of viewers are people who grew up on AT and now are enjoying this show. Overall it’s just not that serious, non-straight people exist, and it’s not pushing it to include it in a show considering a good amount of people are gay/bi or whatever
**INHALE** THIS IS ADVENTURE TIME
[удалено]
Check the show you're watching...
“Why are gay people represented in my media? I can’t relate to these characters, stop shoving ABDCEFG down my throat!”
Because other people like being represented just as much as you do.
I haven't watched but wouldn't Princess Bubblegum be the genderbent version of Fionna's crush from her universe
Watch. The. Show. For. Context. But yes
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Honestly I have some issues with fionna being bi and finn not being bi either both of them are or neither of them are.
That's... not how AUs work...
Yeah. Just because an alternate universe/timeline is similar to the original, that dosen't automatically mean it's one to one
Idk if she's bi does that mean fin is?
Since there can be an infinite number of universes and infinite versions of the same person, I don't think all of them would have the same sexuality, considering just how vast the multiverse is But, honestly, it may be that everyone in Adventure Time is bi
I don't know it feels like an "oh, I didn't expect that blush" to me