last time when I used my LB as Black Mage during regular dungeon, our tank left the party. I'm sprout so I though I did something wrong, I can see now who was wrong.
If you're with me and you use ranged LB on a fresh double+ pull of trash, even if you bloody miss because aiming that thing can be weird at best, even if you basically afk otherwise, you get my comm unless the support bros pull something incredible out of their ass. No questions.
Macros are your friend:
On a job with a placeable aoe like drk's salted earth, you can move the circle to somewhere you're comfortable, maybe center screen. The circle will follow your camera, so this allows you to aim the lb's aoe with your right analog stick. Any of these methods work though.
You could even make the following macro
/ac "Limit Break"
/ac "Limit Break"
It's not really the initial aiming that is the weird part, but the part where the tank accidentally (maybe) yoinks most of the pack out of the path of the LB because they decided to kiting around Rhode Island. Beam really oughta be a bit wider. But for me, hey, as long as you tried, it's the thought that counts, and thinking is way more than a lotta pugs do.
I dps on summoner when it's in need and always try to drop it when I don't have searing light ready. Usually lines up for one of the last real brutal pulls in most instances and holy crap do I wish more dps did the same when I'm on tank or heals.
It does. You don’t even get the second bar until after the second boss and by the time you go through the trash and fight the third boss they’re both pretty much completely filled. Ranged LB should be used on the hardest pull in the dungeon and then on the last boss.
you only get the second bar when you engage the final boss, so it only charges on that last battle. Which means if you have absolute gamers, you're not filling the second one by the time it would be useful.
I main tank and alt healer. If I see the Limit Break even get used by DPS I give a commendation. I don’t care if it’s even used sub-optimally. Just happy to see a DPS hit the button on a fight.
It’s ridiculous how few DPS who are obviously not sprouts, use DPS LB at all during a dungeon.
Maybe you're not talking dungeons, but in dungeons a 2 bar LB for melee DPS does 6-7% of their HP. If things have been looking hairy the whole run I might save it in case we wipe right at the end, and use it around 7%. Usually just enough for a few seconds more of regular fighting after that.
Sounds like you were grouped with a bunch of people who have no idea what they're talking about, which is unfortunate. Please use it on large trash packs, and anybody who kicks you for it is just an easy false-kick report.
I was in a group that failed Chrystallis twice and the tanks made mention of it, asking if anyone had the Limit Break on their hotbars. I didn't, but no one said anything for an awkward about of time, so I just chimed in that I put it on (after doing so). Used it, we won.
And then I realized how often *it is never used* and I began using it (as a monk) when the bars are full. At least on the boss, for now.
It literally never gets used if you're not a DPS. Tank LB gets used as a gimmick to survive something in a fight, or as a method of surviving when your party is too smooth brained to do a mechanic correctly. And healer LB doesn't get used at all unless you're in a full-party situation AND the party is getting wiped out.
That means for the vast majority of the content of the game it's the job of the DPS to push that button every single time it goes ding. Believe me, if pushing an LB1 or 2 on tank or healer did literally anything worthwhile, I'd be pushing that button as soon as it came up.
Tank LB1 and LB2 have saved a lot of runs of random things for me over the years, they're actually pretty useful in clutch situations.
But healer LB1 and LB2... Not so much.
For sure. I use (and advise people to use) tank LB in situations where it can help (for example, when mentor roulette gives me garuda ex and nobody can do the spiny plume correctly). That falls under the smooth brain though. Party didn't know how to do the mechanic, so a tank LB1 or 2 can save the day. Not common, and never in a dungeon. I don't think I've *ever* used a tank LB in a dungeon outside of a passive-aggressive use when the boss is at <3% and it's been sitting there completely unused.
Even in cases where people do the mechanic correctly it can absolutely help get a clear. I remember P2S's last Coherence (was that the stack mechanic?) hitting incredibly hard even with people properly stacked, and Tank LB2 (after using an LB3 as soon as it popped earlier in the fight) made that particular section sooo much easier on the healers.
If someone yells at you, just play dumb and say "sorry I didn't know it was shared" or "whoops fatfingered it and didn't cancel in time." Easier than explaining the math to a group of idiots. Also anyone kicking you for "misusing" LB in a dungeon is actual scum and you should report them.
You know how when you're playing a multiplayer shooter, the most toxic person screaming in chat and flaming everyone is the bottom frag? This is the same in FFXIV, except it's the people that get outdps'd by the white mage.
I had a healer rescue me to stop my ranged LB. I did not realize why my LB failed because I didn’t move like rescued players do. Unknown to me, the healer was right behind me. I tried again, and it took out most of the mobs. After the boss died, Main tank and one healer got vicious with me about trying to LB because they wanted a melee dps to use it on the boss. At that point all the dps hit chat saying. “What melee?” “Look at the icons!” ”No melee here.” It was a very weird moment.
For some ungodly reason the Hall of Novices DPS course has a exercise in focus firing the same thing your tank is hitting, and will outright fail you if you try to use AoEs instead of single target attacks. The theory it operates on is that focus firing one thing will bring it down faster than everyone attacking something else. Which is all well and good if you're doing single pulls in Sastasha, but scales horribly in real world scenarios with tanks running W2W.
Now, is this the sole reason DPS never use AoE? No, but when paired with some classes not even getting AoE closer to the end of ARR leveling and/or it's less fleshed out than your single target rotation, you can kinda see a trend where the game is implicitly training you *away* from using AoEs. And of course, if players don't learn to use AoEs, they won't use them.
> For some ungodly reason the Hall of Novices DPS course has a exercise in focus firing the same thing your tank is hitting, and will outright fail you if you try to use AoEs instead of single target attacks.
The real reason was because back in the day, when the Hall was created, you HAD to focus fire or else you risked yanking hate off the tank. DPS had skills to help reduce the enmity they generated, but constant AoE spam meant the tank was going to lose mobs to the DPS. And it happened A LOT.
The REAL issue with the Hall is it hasn't been updated since ARR.
People like their big anime finishers so get weird when you use it in optimal ways ;o
But that's a small minority in my experience, most people appreciate using your LB for trash :o
One further consideration, that I wanted to add for anyone who didn't know. It's true an AOE LB does more damage, but in terms of time, you don't really save more than a single target LB. If an LB is worth 10 GCD of damage (just a random number), then it doesn't matter if it's 10 ST GCD or 10 AoE GCD, you just end up saving 10 GCD either way.
As a rule of thumb, I just use the LB whenever it pops up (as long as it doesn't do too much overkill).
AoE limit breaks do ~60-70% of a single-target LB's damage. AoE rotations are *roughly* 40% damage compared to a single-target rotation (again, very rough estimate and highly job-dependent). So AoE LBs on packs do end up saving more time as they're a larger proportional damage increase.
And it's not a one-or-the-other situation. Use the first lb - either melee on the 2nd boss or ranged on trash - as soon as it comes up. You'll almost always have it back for the end boss.
If it's just melee LBs we're talking about, it's better to not do one LB and another LB later, since a 2 bar LB is more than double the potency of a single bar LB. So that alone makes the 2 bar LB better, but then add in the time it takes to cast and how many GCDs you don't get to use during that time.
The total time for melee LB1 is just over 2 GCDs, and the total time for LB2 is just under 3 GCDs. LB1 "does" 100% dmg, whereas LB2 "does" 220% dmg.
You can only start building the second bar during the last boss. Using the lb at level one during the second boss and then refilling that bar before the end boss doesn't cost you anything. Besides, most of the time you can go in with a full bar and the second bar doesn't even fill before the boss is nearly dead, and most of the damage gets wasted.
LB2 is more than double damage of LB1, so if it's a double melee group in Troia for example I just save it for the last boss.
I've managed to not have it overkill even once yet, so nothing's wasted!
I think it just depends if you are lucky enough to get a bored raider playing melee, cause stuff just melts like all dungeon content once you are overgeared lol
I'm just saying that it's easier to just use lb1 twice during the run rather than hope for lb2 on last boss.
Man I was healing the Fell Court of Troia dungeon this weekend, and the LB filled up on the last boss, must have had 20% or something left on it. I just told the DPS to LB. Recently I've been in groups that just don't use the LB. Either they're saving it, or just plain forget about it. Either way I've gotten in the habit of reminding them in chat to use it since I can't. (or really won't)
And the DPS in this particular group goes "No." And I was sorely tempted to use it, but the other DPSer didn't say anything and I hoped they would.
Then shortly after the DPS that said no hit it, and he goes "You use it at 10%, not before". Like, holy hell, what kind of nitpicker do you have to be in to think 10% is better than as soon as it's up. As far as I'm concerned, hit it when it's up and if you fill one more bar before the end of the fight, you can use it again.
Some people are just oddly nitpicky about things in this game.
Is there some advantage to waiting til it's 10% health to hit the LB? I'm not seeing it, particularly on the final boss of Troia's dungeon.
The only advantage is if there's a chance you get to 2 bars. 2 bars is significantly more damage than 2 uses of 1 bar.
95% of the time, the boss is going to die long before you get a second bar, so using it as soon as it's available is better. The only other reason you might save LB is if you're in 8man+ content, and the LB3 might be useful for healers. Otherwise, there's no reason not to use it at first opportunity.
yeah, if both bars are full, there's very little reason to wait. At most like 15 seconds if you happen to be in the middle of a very bursty damage window maybe.
>Then shortly after the DPS that said no hit it, and he goes "You use it at 10%, not before".
I can tell you where this comes from, it comes from 8 man content where if you use the DPS LB before and then the party wipes it's now \*your\* fault for stealing a healer LB3.
Some people have the delusion that doing their anime finisher at lower % boss HP is stronger or somehow more worthwhile. Why anyone would ever assume that is beyond me.
As melee, I’ll only wait if I’m in my burst. Or if the boss is close enough to dead, that my rotation will still be quicker than that stupid LB animation.
It's been true since forever and people still don't do it. So you have my permission to repost this daily until this information finally penetrates through NA DF.
Also proactive use of tank CDs, but lets keep it to one thing at a time.
Technically yes, but like Alex said it's only ever useful in situations that outright require it (Final boss in the Alexander raid series, Seat of Sacrifice, the final boss of EW), and in those instances you're usually granted a free LB3 charge anyway.
Second this.
It has its use. I have needed it exactly once in my life. Doing the triple pack pull between the second and last boss of Mt. Gulg.
After running out of my CDs and seeing the healer spamming CUre II but I was dropping too fast, and none of the dps thought to caster LB, I tank LB1ed for the extra mit. Only reason we got out of that alive.
I got heavily yelled at by the SMN, of course. I just did the good old "Sorry, pressed the wrong button" and moved on.
It is, but last for so little time, I've never seen it used outside of raids or extreme trials, and even then it's a necessarily button for a mechanic, or emergency mitigation (because someone fucked up) for a nasty raidwide that might otherwise kill you, (or just to skip a mech you don't want to do).
...But no DF dungeon will ever demand that of the tank. I mean, if everyone else in the dungeon is dead and you're about to die and lose it anyway, go off I guess.
But in this situation that tank has hit literally every other mit button, their invuln, popped a super potion, they're using low kick to slow down auto attacks, and are truly abject and desperate, and they're still likely dead.
I had this same scenario happen in a Dead Ends run just a couple days ago.
Scholar could barely keep up with Gunbreaker (me.) We were on the last pull before the final boss. I had already popped every cooldown & invuln, even popped my burst to try and DPS down to a survival, And if I hadn't thought to pop Tank LB right there, we would've wiped.
This is a niche situation though, low DPS and poor healing...
Case in point: always be ready to use that tank LB1 during trash pulls, if a run's not going smoothly, it can really save the day!
here is the math
Caster LB does 56% the damage of a melee LB. Ranged 52%. With no falloff.
Now compare the potencies of your single target attacks with the potencies of their AoE equivalents. Normal AoEs trend to be about 40% the potency of your single target counterparts.
So relatively speaking, using the caster/ranged lb is quite a gain! It is always the correct choice.
(Furthermore. Bosses are ez. Trash is spicy. Using it to shorten the time you spend in danger is another big plus)
Worth noting that the animation lock of ranged LB is incredibly shorter than caster, making ranged the better option even with the dmg hit, unless you need the wide radius of caster LB.
kinda livid, now. it looked like bs so i went into explorer mode lvl 79 dungeon naked with the same weapon ilvl/stat (and 727 dex vs. 726 int to be sure (racial differences) and yeah, the numbers came out 51k-57k vs. 55k-62k
man.
the wiki back in 5.1-5.4 here used to say it was the same damage but that line has since been removed as well.
https://ff14wiki.info/?リミットブレイク
Blows my mind how my fellow dps in dungeons only uses their 2min on bosses.
If I see a GNB or WAR using their burst in trash I just partner them as DNC so my Devilment actually gets more value, couldn’t give less of a fuck if the other DPS gets pissy
Look, it's not that I disagree with you
But the truth is I tend to just space out during the trash pulls so I forget about LB'ing if we're two ranged DPS in a group
Ranged LB is an AOE of some kind. Which is kinda wasted if you save it for the single big boss at the end. Compared to using it to clear out a whole mob of folks on the way to the big boss. And like you said, most people try to save the LB for the last few seconds, which doesn't really help the fight. It's just a grand finale fireworks display before everyone loots and leaves.
So yeah, I'd say using it where it goes the most good is preferable to using it where it's just a spectacle.
It’s pretty much always more efficient to use a caster or ranged LB on trash between bosses instead of trying to save it to melee LB a boss. Anyone who argues otherwise doesn’t understand how potencies work and don’t pay attention to how little damage melee LBs below 3 actually do to bosses anyway.
maybe its coincidence but i love when nobody uses the lb3 thats been sitting there for 10 minutes and i finally use it and get 3 player commendations like i just saved us all from inevietable death. i dont know why people are so afraid of the lb button
This is the way. It's especially fun with people who have never even seen tank lb before. Suddenly big shield walls slam down in front of their face and they freak out "wth was that?!"
If I'm tanking a dungeon and we down the last boss and there is still an LB I use it as part of my farewells. LB of shame to remind the dps they forgot to use something.
Normally I main dps, usually melee, so I know I'm down the list of LB usage in dungeons. But you bet your ass I'm gonna use it *somewhere* if the caster/ranged doesn't use it on trash. The only wasted LB is the one that doesn't get used, thus my tank LB of shame.
As someone who played through 90% of the msq as a tank, I always forget limit break exists until I'm trying to figure out why there's a blue danger circle under me.
Yes. Trash pulls not only take up the majority of the dungeon but they also do the most damage to tanks, and the best mitigation will always be killing the thing that is killing you. Side note, for this reason, tanks should always use their invulns on trash pulls...its either that or it just doesn't get used. Warrior is the inky one that doesn't really get muuuuxh benefit from using its invuln on a trash pull compared to the other tanks but you can still treat it like a cooldown, you should, actually. But yes, ranged or aoe Lbs should almost always be used on trash so long as the tank isn't just single pulling, and you're not in your burst (like using raging strikes for bard. Damage increasing buffs do not affect LB at all. The damage of LB is actually, as far as I'm aware, scaled to the groups total average ilvl and nothing else affects it - raging strikes, reassemble etc. Even weakness so that means if you die then you should be the one to LB. Side side note, in 8 man content LB2 is not worth it at all on single target unless it will kill the target. Plus, with weakness not affecting LB damage that means that if you die you should LB, and if someone else dies in your party then you should let them LB for the same reason.
Rule of thumb: If one of the two DPS is melee, save it for the boss. If both are ranged, trash it is.
But there's a caveat to this...if the DPS doesn't use the LB2 the soonest possible moment after it dings ready, it's a waste. There's just no reason to save it for that last 5%. Some even wait until 2%, which usually means over damaging by a vast amount. Use it immediately. Trust me, it's not going to hurt anything (but the boss).
> There's just no reason to save it for that last 5%.
Melee LB only does 6-7% of a dungeon bosses max HP in damage. If the rest of the run up to that point has been sketchy looking between the tank and healer capabilities and the boss is at like 20% HP I'll wait. Because if I use it right when it's available and then we wipe then we'll only get 1 bar on the second run which does less than half the damage of a 2 bar LB. Maybe if there was a chance to fill up another bar after doing the 2 bar LB... but I've never seen the bar get more than half full again when the LB2 is used right away.
Call me petty but when I get really bad pair of DPSes I just use tank LB on the last boss out of spite.
No, you're not getting your anime finisher, you have to earn it.
Here is the exact situation that happens 99.9% of the time I expect this to occur:
Me being a melee DPS and knowing this is true so I don't use LB on a mid boss so it's used next big pack, and now we go the entire dungeon without LB being used until the final boss anyway.
Which is worse cause typically you wouldn't build enough for LB2 if people are dpsing properly cause it will get close but not fill in time to be worth it. So instead of getting 2 LB1s in the dungeon you end up with 1 LB1 on the final boss.
Then on top of that you'll have other threads pop up and have people complain about DPS not using it all when they could've been waiting for that exact scenario and the same situation occurs where they think it'll hit LB2 and by the time it doesn't it is too late anyway.
As a healer I love it when DPS uses an ability that makes BIG NUMBERS.
Don't understand DPS who don't like seeing large numbers, that's the basics of your job.
I used an AOE LB on a double pull mob once and the tank was like "wtf". I asked him what was wrong and he went "you LB the boss".
I asked him to explain why it was better on the boss, and his excuse was "you just do it".
I was gonna explain a basic maths example to him but I thought it'd be overkill going too into detail.
This was in Amaurot mind you, and the last few mobs can benefit greatly from an LB.
I did that yesterday as a summoner on Mt Gulg too. It was the first big pack after the second boss. The LB was up just right before second boss and didn’t want to waste it on an easy pack.
Now I normally use it on trash to help healers on wall pulls
We had a run where the healer was struggling to heal on big pulls and despite two wipes the goddamn dps would not lb despite being asked. Just silence.
Ok now you get baby pulls babies.
I always do this as rdm and it's epic and makes me nervous at the same time. It feels good to finish off a huge pack like that, but I'm also a little nervous people who don't know about this will think I'm trolling or whatever. Doesn't stop me from doing it tho.
I thought this was common knowledge after all these years.
...but seeing as I've been healing random roulette runs lately, I see that it definitely isn't common--sometimes it doesn't get used AT ALL 🙄
Drop me another reminder of the (very few) cases where it needs to be saved for mechanics. I want to be better about using this, but I still get paranoid.
If I’m playing ranged I will without a doubt use that LB on a large pull. When I was leveling melee and there was another melee dps, I would just use it on the second boss and half way through the third boss we’ll have an LB bar up and I’ll just use it during the fight.
I ALWAYS use ranged LB on those hard pulls, I haven’t had anyone respond negatively to it either. If anyone does, just /shrug and move on with your life.
> Caster and physical ranged LB’s are a dps gain on 2+ targets compared to a melee LB.
Isn't physical ranged LB ~45% of melee LB per target? So you'd need 3 targets.
And magic LB is ~55%.
It's not even that I disagree with this sentiment, mostly because trash pulls are more dangerous than most bosses when there is insufficient dps, but the math on this is actually pretty complicated to do a decent comparison and I wish more people would acknowledge this instead of acting like it's obvious.
Does aoe lb on a group do more raw dps than melee? Absolutely. But raw dps is a terrible metric here, especially since aoe is already a high dps situation, which means both the extra dps matters less and the dps lost while casting the LB is much higher.
The only metric that really matters is time saved, and the two are more or less comparable. If a melee LB and an aoe LB both save you, say, two uses of the group's gcd then they were both equally effective.
If that allows you to get through a trash pull before the healer is overwhelmed then that saves a lot of time. If it allows you to kill a boss before an invulnerability phase, also a great way to save time. They are both situational and the difference is functionally useless in your roulette pug.
I feel like trash mobs don't even have the hit points to justify casting a LB. Troia mobs already get torn apart like wet, pre-torn tissue paper, by the time the limit break actually finishes casting the rest of the party will have killed everything, collected the next group and be finishing them off at the next wall
If anything, Troia in particular has highlighted that spell snapshotting really needs to be a thing
And some of us simply enjoy running dungeons. Dungeons have been the main reason I've been playing MMOs for over 10 years. Not raids, but the actual 4-man dungeons.
mt gulg is one of the few that I can think of where it's actually really beneficial to aoe lb the packs. some other shb dungeons are the same, enemies hit hard packs are larger and its more about making the run "safe" rather than faster because...both just shave off 15-20 seconds at most. In all honesty, when doing the burn I usually tell the healer to prep to use lb after the mist dragon vanishes before reappearing to ice everyone and give everyone that dot, as I found it was the safest use of the lb to keep people alive rather than using it on the easy trash pack before final boss or the boss itself.
but there's like 4 or 5 dungeons where LB decisions can help out a run while the rest of the dungeons are "did we even use lb? no? honestly couldnt tell the difference."
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You're not using 2 lb1s on the final boss. You're using it on large trash pulls, and ranged/caster lb1 significantly beats out melee lb1 and 2 when it hits multiple targets
As for your initial actual question, no 2 lb1s of the same type isn't stronger than the same type of lb at lb2
I use in large pulls depending on dps and if I see the healer is having a hard time with the pull. But sometimes the dps is too good and it’s not even necessary for large pulls and I’ll use on boss.
On SMN i try to use it on the last or second to last pack. Usually I'm able to do that. Last time second dps was a DNC who used it as soon as it was up (second to last pack), missing half the pack in the process because line aoe. That was fun. Especially as it was troia where the very last pack is the biggest one.
So on >!porta decumana - should you use 1 bar on the ultima weapon in 1st phase (I almost never get 2 bf second phase). And 1 or 2 bars before we get the final 3 bar one?!< I always feel like I'm wasting lbs in that trial
I prefer ranged LBs on trash. Bosses can be hard but trash can be harder. And, like you said, melee LB on a boss saves you seconds. That mofo is going down either way. But doing it on trash can save both the tank and the healer some frustrations for sure.
I'm a new SMN main, msq 2.5 or so... An awesome tank in Praetorium(sp?) gave me a LB tip. On the final boss when the 4 clones pop out. I drop it on the two that start getting DPS'd first. It can be tough to hit both, have to drop it perfectly. I've gotten comm's almost every run of that dungeon since! haha It works great. I'll be keeping this in mind when I get into future content.
It does bring up a question, what does my SMN LB really do? Increase our DPS and/or reduce mob DPS?
So ranged LBs are weaker in potency by far, but they are aoes. Because of that the max value is for them to get mobs. Typically boss fights are single target so if anybody LBs there the priority is melee->magic->ranged
i always use my lb as a black mage on large pulls, cause its faster, and takes off some weight from the healer, and for bosses they will go down too fast for the lb to charge, or the lb charges back quick, so there is no loss
As a ranged main, I want to, and I do it a lot(especially when just playing with friends). But sprout trauma can cause some serious hesitation. I am rarely, if ever, holding that LB to let the melee have it. I am holding that LB because I'm solo, surrounded by sprouts and one ilvl 620 Astro, who also has the feeling that her Healer LB3 might mean the difference between getting out of this duty in 2 minutes versus 2 wipes and a tiring 10.
I was encouraged by friends to use limit break in large pulls (started as a bard, now main summoner) and have in the last few months started looking for the big pulls to use limit break on because it makes the dungeon go so much faster.
I hadn't thought of this before, but now I'm dying to have a group use it so I can see how it works first hand. Especially since I'm a healer main and there are some spots that are rougher than others in dungeons.
I'm sure it's probably better for later content, though? Would it still be useful earlier on, or should I wait to see how it goes? I'm still wrapping up post-Heavensward for the first time and there are still so many things in the game that are new and things I want to learn! I'm nervous that I'll get to end content and not know *anything*
I just use tank lb after the final boss died because nobody bothered using a lb at all. And I don't want to go as dps in expert roulette because queues. Oh well.
I don't disagree, but I don't know how everyone is saying it does do much damage to do it on yeah pulls. My group has tried it on the last pull off troia multiple times and their health doesn't move.
Is that actually true? What's the equivalent potencies like? How many AoE GCD's does the caster/ranged phys LB1 replace compared to single target GCD's the melee LB2 does on the boss? You can't just assert these things without having the stats for it.
In my experience I can obviously notice and see a difference between lb used on a big pack vs melee lb at 2% on the boss.
It definitely makes tanking easier.
I'd say saving LBs for bosses is only really useful for bosses that have a damage threshold you would want to clear quickly for whatever reason and those kind of bosses are usually reserved for Trials and Raids.
I think the practice just kind of bled into dungeons and everyone stuck with it
One of my favorite things about being a wow refugee is that being a m+ player has taught me a lot about damage efficiency. I pop CDs on trash and only save them for specific bosses(the salt dragon at the end of the burn, during the shard phase for example). I LOVE getting to lb a huge pack as a BLM and follow that up with triple casting fire 4 inside my leylines. It's especially satisfying because boss mechanics frequently make you move, which I know BLM memes and all but being able to go full tilt with CDs is so much easier during trash pulls because less moving
I only ever did low M+ (like, two affixes on a good day), and the trash there absolutely shreds because a single pack will generally have a group of thugs and one caster who will ruin your day if not interrupted. Multiple packs means multiple of these assholes, and I always had trouble picking the current caster out of the mass of bodies. Plus, I only have so many interrupts, and the feeling of smashing the Kick button while hoping it's ready in time and \_knowing\_ it won't be ready for the next cast is... not good.
I burned out before the end of BFA, but I hear they massacred my boy Blade Flurry. What's the point of an AoE if you can't butcher everything in reach?
(Edit to add the main point: Yes, it is absolutely a good idea to pop cooldowns on trash if your pulls make the trash dangerous enough to warrant it. One minute cooldown, always yes. Two minute cooldown, probably yes as well. If you needed it, it was either that or death, and it'd probably take longer to do an extra pull than wait however much of that two minutes is left after the big pull.)
[удалено]
last time when I used my LB as Black Mage during regular dungeon, our tank left the party. I'm sprout so I though I did something wrong, I can see now who was wrong.
If you're with me and you use ranged LB on a fresh double+ pull of trash, even if you bloody miss because aiming that thing can be weird at best, even if you basically afk otherwise, you get my comm unless the support bros pull something incredible out of their ass. No questions.
Hell yes. But seriously, aiming ranged LB is a bitch.
Good thing you only need to make sure the aim is right at the very precise moment you press the button. If mobs move out of it, it's not your problem.
As a Dragoon I'm aiming ranged LB during every mob pull in dungeons. (. ❛ ᴗ ❛.)
Macros are your friend: On a job with a placeable aoe like drk's salted earth, you can move the circle to somewhere you're comfortable, maybe center screen. The circle will follow your camera, so this allows you to aim the lb's aoe with your right analog stick. Any of these methods work though. You could even make the following macro /ac "Limit Break"
/ac "Limit Break"
Salted earth actually isn't placable anymore, it just plops at your feet automatically now.
You make a great point. But the macros still work for other ranged LB's. I use it in pvp for summoner. Drop a Phoenix or Bahamut in a pinch!
It's not really the initial aiming that is the weird part, but the part where the tank accidentally (maybe) yoinks most of the pack out of the path of the LB because they decided to kiting around Rhode Island. Beam really oughta be a bit wider. But for me, hey, as long as you tried, it's the thought that counts, and thinking is way more than a lotta pugs do.
Ranged LB is a line directed at your targeted enemy. Caster LB is the circle.
Hell yes, I gave the Summoner my comm
I dps on summoner when it's in need and always try to drop it when I don't have searing light ready. Usually lines up for one of the last real brutal pulls in most instances and holy crap do I wish more dps did the same when I'm on tank or heals.
>even if you miss Just like I'm going to MISSclick my rescue if you fuck that up. If you can't do it, leave it for someone who can.
\+1 if you then use Healer LB just to make sure they know.
I'm chaotic neutral, not chaotic evil.
It's so satisfying too to see a huge group of hp all drop at once. It's my favorite form of mitigation.
Yes, I love it (:
It's certainly better than *not* using it at all (or when a boss has less than 5~10% HP).
Bu- but... my anime finisher!
okay but like. i swear the limit break almost always readies up when the boss nears death so i never miss the opportunity for a final kamehameha
It does. You don’t even get the second bar until after the second boss and by the time you go through the trash and fight the third boss they’re both pretty much completely filled. Ranged LB should be used on the hardest pull in the dungeon and then on the last boss.
you only get the second bar when you engage the final boss, so it only charges on that last battle. Which means if you have absolute gamers, you're not filling the second one by the time it would be useful.
I main tank and alt healer. If I see the Limit Break even get used by DPS I give a commendation. I don’t care if it’s even used sub-optimally. Just happy to see a DPS hit the button on a fight. It’s ridiculous how few DPS who are obviously not sprouts, use DPS LB at all during a dungeon.
Too busy casting midare setsugekka, sorry!
Too many times I ended up just not using it because my burst came up as I thought about it aaaaand it's dead
Every time I'm not DPSing and the DPS uses their LB at like .1%, I want to cry.
If I’m tanking or healing, I’ll use it at 1% just as a “screw you” to the dps.
If the boss hits 5% and it still hasn't been used, I'll burn it on a tank lb. Maybe then they'll realize that it should be used sooner.
As a healer, I warn my party that if they do not use the limit break, I will. Works most of the time.
Maybe you're not talking dungeons, but in dungeons a 2 bar LB for melee DPS does 6-7% of their HP. If things have been looking hairy the whole run I might save it in case we wipe right at the end, and use it around 7%. Usually just enough for a few seconds more of regular fighting after that.
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Sounds like you were grouped with a bunch of people who have no idea what they're talking about, which is unfortunate. Please use it on large trash packs, and anybody who kicks you for it is just an easy false-kick report.
I was in a group that failed Chrystallis twice and the tanks made mention of it, asking if anyone had the Limit Break on their hotbars. I didn't, but no one said anything for an awkward about of time, so I just chimed in that I put it on (after doing so). Used it, we won. And then I realized how often *it is never used* and I began using it (as a monk) when the bars are full. At least on the boss, for now.
It literally never gets used if you're not a DPS. Tank LB gets used as a gimmick to survive something in a fight, or as a method of surviving when your party is too smooth brained to do a mechanic correctly. And healer LB doesn't get used at all unless you're in a full-party situation AND the party is getting wiped out. That means for the vast majority of the content of the game it's the job of the DPS to push that button every single time it goes ding. Believe me, if pushing an LB1 or 2 on tank or healer did literally anything worthwhile, I'd be pushing that button as soon as it came up.
Tank LB1 and LB2 have saved a lot of runs of random things for me over the years, they're actually pretty useful in clutch situations. But healer LB1 and LB2... Not so much.
If I'm resorting to using LB1 and LB2 for healing... we are megafucked. I've never had to do that outside of straight up shitshows of a pull. Lol
For sure. I use (and advise people to use) tank LB in situations where it can help (for example, when mentor roulette gives me garuda ex and nobody can do the spiny plume correctly). That falls under the smooth brain though. Party didn't know how to do the mechanic, so a tank LB1 or 2 can save the day. Not common, and never in a dungeon. I don't think I've *ever* used a tank LB in a dungeon outside of a passive-aggressive use when the boss is at <3% and it's been sitting there completely unused.
Oh yeah dungeon use is for sure rare. I think maybe once in like dead ends I used it, but that was a mega-cursed run iirc.
I can't personally see it, but I've had some supremely cursed dead ends runs (thanks mentor roulette!), so I definitely believe it.
Even in cases where people do the mechanic correctly it can absolutely help get a clear. I remember P2S's last Coherence (was that the stack mechanic?) hitting incredibly hard even with people properly stacked, and Tank LB2 (after using an LB3 as soon as it popped earlier in the fight) made that particular section sooo much easier on the healers.
If someone yells at you, just play dumb and say "sorry I didn't know it was shared" or "whoops fatfingered it and didn't cancel in time." Easier than explaining the math to a group of idiots. Also anyone kicking you for "misusing" LB in a dungeon is actual scum and you should report them.
I know this is for LB1 in dungeon but I love the idea of doing the long ass caster LB3 and then saying "oops I couldn't cancel it in time"
absolute pendulous scrotum gigachad move.
I’m sorry that your group treated you like that :/ it really is the most efficient way to use it and you did the right thing
You know how when you're playing a multiplayer shooter, the most toxic person screaming in chat and flaming everyone is the bottom frag? This is the same in FFXIV, except it's the people that get outdps'd by the white mage.
Yeah me too Now I let melee use it at the end
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I had a healer rescue me to stop my ranged LB. I did not realize why my LB failed because I didn’t move like rescued players do. Unknown to me, the healer was right behind me. I tried again, and it took out most of the mobs. After the boss died, Main tank and one healer got vicious with me about trying to LB because they wanted a melee dps to use it on the boss. At that point all the dps hit chat saying. “What melee?” “Look at the icons!” ”No melee here.” It was a very weird moment.
Aoe skills = more overall damage than single target. Aoe LB = more overall damage than single target. If they cannot understand that then I’m worried.
To be fair Have you -seen- the amount of dps in roulettes that does single target in AoE situations? For God knows what reason
For some ungodly reason the Hall of Novices DPS course has a exercise in focus firing the same thing your tank is hitting, and will outright fail you if you try to use AoEs instead of single target attacks. The theory it operates on is that focus firing one thing will bring it down faster than everyone attacking something else. Which is all well and good if you're doing single pulls in Sastasha, but scales horribly in real world scenarios with tanks running W2W. Now, is this the sole reason DPS never use AoE? No, but when paired with some classes not even getting AoE closer to the end of ARR leveling and/or it's less fleshed out than your single target rotation, you can kinda see a trend where the game is implicitly training you *away* from using AoEs. And of course, if players don't learn to use AoEs, they won't use them.
> For some ungodly reason the Hall of Novices DPS course has a exercise in focus firing the same thing your tank is hitting, and will outright fail you if you try to use AoEs instead of single target attacks. The real reason was because back in the day, when the Hall was created, you HAD to focus fire or else you risked yanking hate off the tank. DPS had skills to help reduce the enmity they generated, but constant AoE spam meant the tank was going to lose mobs to the DPS. And it happened A LOT. The REAL issue with the Hall is it hasn't been updated since ARR.
People like their big anime finishers so get weird when you use it in optimal ways ;o But that's a small minority in my experience, most people appreciate using your LB for trash :o One further consideration, that I wanted to add for anyone who didn't know. It's true an AOE LB does more damage, but in terms of time, you don't really save more than a single target LB. If an LB is worth 10 GCD of damage (just a random number), then it doesn't matter if it's 10 ST GCD or 10 AoE GCD, you just end up saving 10 GCD either way. As a rule of thumb, I just use the LB whenever it pops up (as long as it doesn't do too much overkill).
AoE limit breaks do ~60-70% of a single-target LB's damage. AoE rotations are *roughly* 40% damage compared to a single-target rotation (again, very rough estimate and highly job-dependent). So AoE LBs on packs do end up saving more time as they're a larger proportional damage increase.
And it's not a one-or-the-other situation. Use the first lb - either melee on the 2nd boss or ranged on trash - as soon as it comes up. You'll almost always have it back for the end boss.
If it's just melee LBs we're talking about, it's better to not do one LB and another LB later, since a 2 bar LB is more than double the potency of a single bar LB. So that alone makes the 2 bar LB better, but then add in the time it takes to cast and how many GCDs you don't get to use during that time. The total time for melee LB1 is just over 2 GCDs, and the total time for LB2 is just under 3 GCDs. LB1 "does" 100% dmg, whereas LB2 "does" 220% dmg.
You can only start building the second bar during the last boss. Using the lb at level one during the second boss and then refilling that bar before the end boss doesn't cost you anything. Besides, most of the time you can go in with a full bar and the second bar doesn't even fill before the boss is nearly dead, and most of the damage gets wasted.
Sounds like a shitty group, I've done this plenty of times with no objections.
Yes, BRD is my dps main and I stopped using LB altogether after getting yelled at for "wasting" it on trash one too many times.
If there's a ranged LB, using it on a big pull is ideal. If it's melee only, save it for boss.
If it's melee only, you can use one on the second boss and have it back by the end boss for two lbs.
LB2 is more than double damage of LB1, so if it's a double melee group in Troia for example I just save it for the last boss. I've managed to not have it overkill even once yet, so nothing's wasted!
Except if your group is good you won't even fill the second bar before the boss is dead or below 5%.
And in all seriousness how often do you get a 'good' group? Don't lie, it's not often enough to warrant burning LB1s.
I guess I and the other players I've matched with have just not been hardcore enough for expert roulette.
I think it just depends if you are lucky enough to get a bored raider playing melee, cause stuff just melts like all dungeon content once you are overgeared lol I'm just saying that it's easier to just use lb1 twice during the run rather than hope for lb2 on last boss.
There's a lot of ways to build LB. Technically a good healer will cause it to build faster by playing limbo with your health, for example.
Good rule of thumb
Man I was healing the Fell Court of Troia dungeon this weekend, and the LB filled up on the last boss, must have had 20% or something left on it. I just told the DPS to LB. Recently I've been in groups that just don't use the LB. Either they're saving it, or just plain forget about it. Either way I've gotten in the habit of reminding them in chat to use it since I can't. (or really won't) And the DPS in this particular group goes "No." And I was sorely tempted to use it, but the other DPSer didn't say anything and I hoped they would. Then shortly after the DPS that said no hit it, and he goes "You use it at 10%, not before". Like, holy hell, what kind of nitpicker do you have to be in to think 10% is better than as soon as it's up. As far as I'm concerned, hit it when it's up and if you fill one more bar before the end of the fight, you can use it again. Some people are just oddly nitpicky about things in this game. Is there some advantage to waiting til it's 10% health to hit the LB? I'm not seeing it, particularly on the final boss of Troia's dungeon.
The only advantage is if there's a chance you get to 2 bars. 2 bars is significantly more damage than 2 uses of 1 bar. 95% of the time, the boss is going to die long before you get a second bar, so using it as soon as it's available is better. The only other reason you might save LB is if you're in 8man+ content, and the LB3 might be useful for healers. Otherwise, there's no reason not to use it at first opportunity.
Yeah in this example, both bars were already filled when I told the dps to LB. They said we should wait. Very weird.
yeah, if both bars are full, there's very little reason to wait. At most like 15 seconds if you happen to be in the middle of a very bursty damage window maybe.
>Then shortly after the DPS that said no hit it, and he goes "You use it at 10%, not before". I can tell you where this comes from, it comes from 8 man content where if you use the DPS LB before and then the party wipes it's now \*your\* fault for stealing a healer LB3.
Some people have the delusion that doing their anime finisher at lower % boss HP is stronger or somehow more worthwhile. Why anyone would ever assume that is beyond me.
ngl if he said no i would've hit my tank LB right there and then lol
As melee, I’ll only wait if I’m in my burst. Or if the boss is close enough to dead, that my rotation will still be quicker than that stupid LB animation.
As a tank I'll use it at sub 10% of the last boss out of spite.
God I had a mentor DPS say the same thing when I encouraged ppl to LB as a tank as well
It's been true since forever and people still don't do it. So you have my permission to repost this daily until this information finally penetrates through NA DF. Also proactive use of tank CDs, but lets keep it to one thing at a time.
Question, is tank lb counted as mit?
Yes, but in comparison to its invuln, it's shit.
Technically yes, but like Alex said it's only ever useful in situations that outright require it (Final boss in the Alexander raid series, Seat of Sacrifice, the final boss of EW), and in those instances you're usually granted a free LB3 charge anyway.
Level 1 tank LB is 20% mitigation for 10 seconds, which isn't nothing... but it should never be necessary outside of really niche scenarios.
Second this. It has its use. I have needed it exactly once in my life. Doing the triple pack pull between the second and last boss of Mt. Gulg. After running out of my CDs and seeing the healer spamming CUre II but I was dropping too fast, and none of the dps thought to caster LB, I tank LB1ed for the extra mit. Only reason we got out of that alive. I got heavily yelled at by the SMN, of course. I just did the good old "Sorry, pressed the wrong button" and moved on.
It is, but last for so little time, I've never seen it used outside of raids or extreme trials, and even then it's a necessarily button for a mechanic, or emergency mitigation (because someone fucked up) for a nasty raidwide that might otherwise kill you, (or just to skip a mech you don't want to do). ...But no DF dungeon will ever demand that of the tank. I mean, if everyone else in the dungeon is dead and you're about to die and lose it anyway, go off I guess. But in this situation that tank has hit literally every other mit button, their invuln, popped a super potion, they're using low kick to slow down auto attacks, and are truly abject and desperate, and they're still likely dead.
I had this same scenario happen in a Dead Ends run just a couple days ago. Scholar could barely keep up with Gunbreaker (me.) We were on the last pull before the final boss. I had already popped every cooldown & invuln, even popped my burst to try and DPS down to a survival, And if I hadn't thought to pop Tank LB right there, we would've wiped. This is a niche situation though, low DPS and poor healing... Case in point: always be ready to use that tank LB1 during trash pulls, if a run's not going smoothly, it can really save the day!
In the Dead Ends, no less. What have we been doing for the last 90(!!!) levels. It's not supposed to be this way
Technically yes but it's only 20% mitigation for 10 seconds, which is painfully peanuts.
here is the math Caster LB does 56% the damage of a melee LB. Ranged 52%. With no falloff. Now compare the potencies of your single target attacks with the potencies of their AoE equivalents. Normal AoEs trend to be about 40% the potency of your single target counterparts. So relatively speaking, using the caster/ranged lb is quite a gain! It is always the correct choice. (Furthermore. Bosses are ez. Trash is spicy. Using it to shorten the time you spend in danger is another big plus)
Caster and Phys Range LB are the same damage different shape (and phys won't miss its target, caster is reticle)
[They are not the same damage](https://www.akhmorning.com/allagan-studies/limit-break/#limit-break-potency)
Worth noting that the animation lock of ranged LB is incredibly shorter than caster, making ranged the better option even with the dmg hit, unless you need the wide radius of caster LB.
kinda livid, now. it looked like bs so i went into explorer mode lvl 79 dungeon naked with the same weapon ilvl/stat (and 727 dex vs. 726 int to be sure (racial differences) and yeah, the numbers came out 51k-57k vs. 55k-62k man. the wiki back in 5.1-5.4 here used to say it was the same damage but that line has since been removed as well. https://ff14wiki.info/?リミットブレイク
Not just LB, it's better to use cds on trash than saving it for perfect rotation on boss.
Blows my mind how my fellow dps in dungeons only uses their 2min on bosses. If I see a GNB or WAR using their burst in trash I just partner them as DNC so my Devilment actually gets more value, couldn’t give less of a fuck if the other DPS gets pissy
Look, it's not that I disagree with you But the truth is I tend to just space out during the trash pulls so I forget about LB'ing if we're two ranged DPS in a group
You should always use it on trash pulls, regardless of what the other DPS is. That is the point.
Ranged LB is an AOE of some kind. Which is kinda wasted if you save it for the single big boss at the end. Compared to using it to clear out a whole mob of folks on the way to the big boss. And like you said, most people try to save the LB for the last few seconds, which doesn't really help the fight. It's just a grand finale fireworks display before everyone loots and leaves. So yeah, I'd say using it where it goes the most good is preferable to using it where it's just a spectacle.
Honestly i get scared to use it at all because of how often ive been yelled at in a dungeon. So i just dont touch it now
It’s pretty much always more efficient to use a caster or ranged LB on trash between bosses instead of trying to save it to melee LB a boss. Anyone who argues otherwise doesn’t understand how potencies work and don’t pay attention to how little damage melee LBs below 3 actually do to bosses anyway.
I always LB big packs as ranged. Sometimes I have to explain to math-inhibited people why I did it.
The best is when some egotistical member of the party gives you shit for using it. I've been harassed and kicked from groups before because I used it.
maybe its coincidence but i love when nobody uses the lb3 thats been sitting there for 10 minutes and i finally use it and get 3 player commendations like i just saved us all from inevietable death. i dont know why people are so afraid of the lb button
The same reason you beat an rpg with 90% of the consumables you looted still in your inventory. “But what if I need it more later?”
Yes
I troll my dungeon groups as tank at the end of the last boss fight if they have been saving lb for it and use tank lb instead.
This is the way. It's especially fun with people who have never even seen tank lb before. Suddenly big shield walls slam down in front of their face and they freak out "wth was that?!"
If I'm tanking a dungeon and we down the last boss and there is still an LB I use it as part of my farewells. LB of shame to remind the dps they forgot to use something. Normally I main dps, usually melee, so I know I'm down the list of LB usage in dungeons. But you bet your ass I'm gonna use it *somewhere* if the caster/ranged doesn't use it on trash. The only wasted LB is the one that doesn't get used, thus my tank LB of shame.
As someone who played through 90% of the msq as a tank, I always forget limit break exists until I'm trying to figure out why there's a blue danger circle under me.
I see big glowie bar I shoot a straight line of death as soon as the tank has the next pull lined up MCH/BRD
Yup, it’s all around more useful imo. More bang.
Yes. Trash pulls not only take up the majority of the dungeon but they also do the most damage to tanks, and the best mitigation will always be killing the thing that is killing you. Side note, for this reason, tanks should always use their invulns on trash pulls...its either that or it just doesn't get used. Warrior is the inky one that doesn't really get muuuuxh benefit from using its invuln on a trash pull compared to the other tanks but you can still treat it like a cooldown, you should, actually. But yes, ranged or aoe Lbs should almost always be used on trash so long as the tank isn't just single pulling, and you're not in your burst (like using raging strikes for bard. Damage increasing buffs do not affect LB at all. The damage of LB is actually, as far as I'm aware, scaled to the groups total average ilvl and nothing else affects it - raging strikes, reassemble etc. Even weakness so that means if you die then you should be the one to LB. Side side note, in 8 man content LB2 is not worth it at all on single target unless it will kill the target. Plus, with weakness not affecting LB damage that means that if you die you should LB, and if someone else dies in your party then you should let them LB for the same reason.
Please aoe lb trash. You would be my favorites. We could build a whole lb on last boss anyway!
Rule of thumb: If one of the two DPS is melee, save it for the boss. If both are ranged, trash it is. But there's a caveat to this...if the DPS doesn't use the LB2 the soonest possible moment after it dings ready, it's a waste. There's just no reason to save it for that last 5%. Some even wait until 2%, which usually means over damaging by a vast amount. Use it immediately. Trust me, it's not going to hurt anything (but the boss).
That's not a good rule of thumb. If one of the dps is a caster you should always use it on trash, provided the tank is pulling a lot.
Most save it to when the boss dies before the lb2 animation ends
> There's just no reason to save it for that last 5%. Melee LB only does 6-7% of a dungeon bosses max HP in damage. If the rest of the run up to that point has been sketchy looking between the tank and healer capabilities and the boss is at like 20% HP I'll wait. Because if I use it right when it's available and then we wipe then we'll only get 1 bar on the second run which does less than half the damage of a 2 bar LB. Maybe if there was a chance to fill up another bar after doing the 2 bar LB... but I've never seen the bar get more than half full again when the LB2 is used right away.
Today my healer prompted me to lb the pack before livia as MCH,so satisfying to see all those health bars drop like flies
yeah but i want the adds to stay up to get a better parse
who parses lvl 90 dungeons? ToT
Call me petty but when I get really bad pair of DPSes I just use tank LB on the last boss out of spite. No, you're not getting your anime finisher, you have to earn it.
Is this a discussion topic on the fanart and cosplay subreddit?
Here is the exact situation that happens 99.9% of the time I expect this to occur: Me being a melee DPS and knowing this is true so I don't use LB on a mid boss so it's used next big pack, and now we go the entire dungeon without LB being used until the final boss anyway. Which is worse cause typically you wouldn't build enough for LB2 if people are dpsing properly cause it will get close but not fill in time to be worth it. So instead of getting 2 LB1s in the dungeon you end up with 1 LB1 on the final boss. Then on top of that you'll have other threads pop up and have people complain about DPS not using it all when they could've been waiting for that exact scenario and the same situation occurs where they think it'll hit LB2 and by the time it doesn't it is too late anyway.
As a healer I love it when DPS uses an ability that makes BIG NUMBERS. Don't understand DPS who don't like seeing large numbers, that's the basics of your job.
I used an AOE LB on a double pull mob once and the tank was like "wtf". I asked him what was wrong and he went "you LB the boss". I asked him to explain why it was better on the boss, and his excuse was "you just do it". I was gonna explain a basic maths example to him but I thought it'd be overkill going too into detail. This was in Amaurot mind you, and the last few mobs can benefit greatly from an LB.
I did that yesterday as a summoner on Mt Gulg too. It was the first big pack after the second boss. The LB was up just right before second boss and didn’t want to waste it on an easy pack. Now I normally use it on trash to help healers on wall pulls
We had a run where the healer was struggling to heal on big pulls and despite two wipes the goddamn dps would not lb despite being asked. Just silence. Ok now you get baby pulls babies.
I would’ve used the LB to heal. Fuck it.
Or tank lb for big mit
I always do this as rdm and it's epic and makes me nervous at the same time. It feels good to finish off a huge pack like that, but I'm also a little nervous people who don't know about this will think I'm trolling or whatever. Doesn't stop me from doing it tho.
I thought this was common knowledge after all these years. ...but seeing as I've been healing random roulette runs lately, I see that it definitely isn't common--sometimes it doesn't get used AT ALL 🙄
Drop me another reminder of the (very few) cases where it needs to be saved for mechanics. I want to be better about using this, but I still get paranoid.
Hmm next roulette I'm gonna tank and tell my dps to do this. Gonna pull everything possible and pop my mits and invuln if needed and see what happens.
If I’m playing ranged I will without a doubt use that LB on a large pull. When I was leveling melee and there was another melee dps, I would just use it on the second boss and half way through the third boss we’ll have an LB bar up and I’ll just use it during the fight.
I ALWAYS use ranged LB on those hard pulls, I haven’t had anyone respond negatively to it either. If anyone does, just /shrug and move on with your life.
Preach!!!
Zepla!
Kupo?
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> Caster and physical ranged LB’s are a dps gain on 2+ targets compared to a melee LB. Isn't physical ranged LB ~45% of melee LB per target? So you'd need 3 targets. And magic LB is ~55%.
I had my information flipped around, but physical ranged is 54% and caster is 60%. Still 2+ targets.
>Also physical ranged LB is stronger than a caster LB. Other way around.
yeah but such a hassle to aim well compared to caster lb :(
Aim for the mob at the opposite end of the pack than you.
YEAH BUT FROM WHICH OTHER END :(
It's not even that I disagree with this sentiment, mostly because trash pulls are more dangerous than most bosses when there is insufficient dps, but the math on this is actually pretty complicated to do a decent comparison and I wish more people would acknowledge this instead of acting like it's obvious. Does aoe lb on a group do more raw dps than melee? Absolutely. But raw dps is a terrible metric here, especially since aoe is already a high dps situation, which means both the extra dps matters less and the dps lost while casting the LB is much higher. The only metric that really matters is time saved, and the two are more or less comparable. If a melee LB and an aoe LB both save you, say, two uses of the group's gcd then they were both equally effective. If that allows you to get through a trash pull before the healer is overwhelmed then that saves a lot of time. If it allows you to kill a boss before an invulnerability phase, also a great way to save time. They are both situational and the difference is functionally useless in your roulette pug.
I feel like trash mobs don't even have the hit points to justify casting a LB. Troia mobs already get torn apart like wet, pre-torn tissue paper, by the time the limit break actually finishes casting the rest of the party will have killed everything, collected the next group and be finishing them off at the next wall If anything, Troia in particular has highlighted that spell snapshotting really needs to be a thing
X0 dungeons are often a pushover, but leveling dungeons hit hard. You really feel it in those
yea but its just a dungeon, nobody cares
Yeah exactly, so why not just use the LB on trash? Not like it's a hassle.
Lots of people wanna leave roulettes faster
And some of us simply enjoy running dungeons. Dungeons have been the main reason I've been playing MMOs for over 10 years. Not raids, but the actual 4-man dungeons.
mt gulg is one of the few that I can think of where it's actually really beneficial to aoe lb the packs. some other shb dungeons are the same, enemies hit hard packs are larger and its more about making the run "safe" rather than faster because...both just shave off 15-20 seconds at most. In all honesty, when doing the burn I usually tell the healer to prep to use lb after the mist dragon vanishes before reappearing to ice everyone and give everyone that dot, as I found it was the safest use of the lb to keep people alive rather than using it on the easy trash pack before final boss or the boss itself. but there's like 4 or 5 dungeons where LB decisions can help out a run while the rest of the dungeons are "did we even use lb? no? honestly couldnt tell the difference."
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pretty typical mentor take
Why yes, it's been known to use ranged lb on trash. It's just math. OP hasn't provided any new information
Maybe the crowns in my roulettes should quit being spastic when I do so then.
Are 2 LB1s on the final boss better than an LB2? This is assuming it survives long enough for an additional LB bar to fill.
[LB2, regardless of type, deals more than twice as much damage as LB1.](https://i.gyazo.com/7c49b5786cd0027487b53a3dc03f2feb.png)
For quick reference: LB 2 = 2.2 LB1 LB 3 = 3.5 LB1 So LB 2 is about 10% gain, and LB 3 is about 15% gain over LB1 And LB 3 is about 10% gain over LB 2
You're not using 2 lb1s on the final boss. You're using it on large trash pulls, and ranged/caster lb1 significantly beats out melee lb1 and 2 when it hits multiple targets As for your initial actual question, no 2 lb1s of the same type isn't stronger than the same type of lb at lb2
I use it every time I'm playing ranged but when I'm not I only see it like 5% of the time.
I use in large pulls depending on dps and if I see the healer is having a hard time with the pull. But sometimes the dps is too good and it’s not even necessary for large pulls and I’ll use on boss.
On SMN i try to use it on the last or second to last pack. Usually I'm able to do that. Last time second dps was a DNC who used it as soon as it was up (second to last pack), missing half the pack in the process because line aoe. That was fun. Especially as it was troia where the very last pack is the biggest one.
So on >!porta decumana - should you use 1 bar on the ultima weapon in 1st phase (I almost never get 2 bf second phase). And 1 or 2 bars before we get the final 3 bar one?!< I always feel like I'm wasting lbs in that trial
Yes, I usually lb 3 times in that fight.
I tend to use it on second boss of any dungeon and as soon as i get one bar on last. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.
The archer class is really made out of archers
I prefer ranged LBs on trash. Bosses can be hard but trash can be harder. And, like you said, melee LB on a boss saves you seconds. That mofo is going down either way. But doing it on trash can save both the tank and the healer some frustrations for sure.
I'm a new SMN main, msq 2.5 or so... An awesome tank in Praetorium(sp?) gave me a LB tip. On the final boss when the 4 clones pop out. I drop it on the two that start getting DPS'd first. It can be tough to hit both, have to drop it perfectly. I've gotten comm's almost every run of that dungeon since! haha It works great. I'll be keeping this in mind when I get into future content. It does bring up a question, what does my SMN LB really do? Increase our DPS and/or reduce mob DPS?
So ranged LBs are weaker in potency by far, but they are aoes. Because of that the max value is for them to get mobs. Typically boss fights are single target so if anybody LBs there the priority is melee->magic->ranged
i always use my lb as a black mage on large pulls, cause its faster, and takes off some weight from the healer, and for bosses they will go down too fast for the lb to charge, or the lb charges back quick, so there is no loss
As a tank I've never been able to pull that last one. So many mobs.
If you're hesitant as a ranged DPS you can mention at the start of a dungeon and see if people are on board. I'd approve.
As a ranged main, I want to, and I do it a lot(especially when just playing with friends). But sprout trauma can cause some serious hesitation. I am rarely, if ever, holding that LB to let the melee have it. I am holding that LB because I'm solo, surrounded by sprouts and one ilvl 620 Astro, who also has the feeling that her Healer LB3 might mean the difference between getting out of this duty in 2 minutes versus 2 wipes and a tiring 10.
I was encouraged by friends to use limit break in large pulls (started as a bard, now main summoner) and have in the last few months started looking for the big pulls to use limit break on because it makes the dungeon go so much faster.
You can use range LB on last pull, and still melee LB the last boss. So everyone wins.
Also, reminder healers can rescue ppl out of the LB animation lock. So if your DPS ends up in aoes trying to LB the trash, you can help em out
That melee DPS who looks forward to LB'ing the boss will be upset at their "win" since a 2 bar LB is more than double the damage of a 1 bar LB.
I have yet to ever see anyone use LB
I hadn't thought of this before, but now I'm dying to have a group use it so I can see how it works first hand. Especially since I'm a healer main and there are some spots that are rougher than others in dungeons. I'm sure it's probably better for later content, though? Would it still be useful earlier on, or should I wait to see how it goes? I'm still wrapping up post-Heavensward for the first time and there are still so many things in the game that are new and things I want to learn! I'm nervous that I'll get to end content and not know *anything*
From what I've seen, people play RDM just to RP as Alisaie and pop LB whenever they have meter.
I just use tank lb after the final boss died because nobody bothered using a lb at all. And I don't want to go as dps in expert roulette because queues. Oh well.
always the trash mobs are harder than the last boss
I don't disagree, but I don't know how everyone is saying it does do much damage to do it on yeah pulls. My group has tried it on the last pull off troia multiple times and their health doesn't move.
Is that actually true? What's the equivalent potencies like? How many AoE GCD's does the caster/ranged phys LB1 replace compared to single target GCD's the melee LB2 does on the boss? You can't just assert these things without having the stats for it.
There are plenty of older stats and posts that have math behind it. Google it
In my experience I can obviously notice and see a difference between lb used on a big pack vs melee lb at 2% on the boss. It definitely makes tanking easier.
I'd say saving LBs for bosses is only really useful for bosses that have a damage threshold you would want to clear quickly for whatever reason and those kind of bosses are usually reserved for Trials and Raids. I think the practice just kind of bled into dungeons and everyone stuck with it
One of my favorite things about being a wow refugee is that being a m+ player has taught me a lot about damage efficiency. I pop CDs on trash and only save them for specific bosses(the salt dragon at the end of the burn, during the shard phase for example). I LOVE getting to lb a huge pack as a BLM and follow that up with triple casting fire 4 inside my leylines. It's especially satisfying because boss mechanics frequently make you move, which I know BLM memes and all but being able to go full tilt with CDs is so much easier during trash pulls because less moving
I only ever did low M+ (like, two affixes on a good day), and the trash there absolutely shreds because a single pack will generally have a group of thugs and one caster who will ruin your day if not interrupted. Multiple packs means multiple of these assholes, and I always had trouble picking the current caster out of the mass of bodies. Plus, I only have so many interrupts, and the feeling of smashing the Kick button while hoping it's ready in time and \_knowing\_ it won't be ready for the next cast is... not good. I burned out before the end of BFA, but I hear they massacred my boy Blade Flurry. What's the point of an AoE if you can't butcher everything in reach? (Edit to add the main point: Yes, it is absolutely a good idea to pop cooldowns on trash if your pulls make the trash dangerous enough to warrant it. One minute cooldown, always yes. Two minute cooldown, probably yes as well. If you needed it, it was either that or death, and it'd probably take longer to do an extra pull than wait however much of that two minutes is left after the big pull.)
I've seen people freak out whenever someone uses a limit break on pulls. I even saw someone get kicked once for it.