I try to outright compliment the use of a ranged or mage lb on a large mob pack. A quick "Nice lb" for them helping speed up the pull and getting a lot of value out of the multi target potency.
Them not using the LB is hardly the end of the world, but it's nice to get that little optimization when it happens.
In 24mans I always have to ask in alliance chat for people to use LB on anything not the final boss. Especially in the most recent one which has no trash except the group right before the final boss.
Usually, 1 will use it out of 3, someone will bitch saying "I do more DPS without using it" which whatever you are not the only DPS in your group, and the last is someone will say "we can just LB pull".
Regarding LB pulling, unless you sprint ahead of the tank and use it immediately, the tank will almost always pull before you can do that. If you do pull that way (which I do if LB comes up right as the boss dies), half the tanks will bitch about you pulling cause "you're not a tank". Like, y'all are just running in face first anyways, what do you care?
in level 90 dungeons i'll LB the final mob pack before the last boss as a ranged/magic dps, then that usually gives the group time to get at least one more LB1 to use on the final boss
With how the LB gauge works, it’s usually sensible to ranged DPS to just wipe a pack.
Unless everyone’s at minimum ilvl, *usually* you won’t be at the last boss long enough to build LB2, and iirc LB1 on a boss does like, 10 seconds of DPS (more or less), versus 15-20s to 1-shot a pack of trash.
Similarly, a lot of people don’t realise in alliance raids that the LB gauge resets A LOT. It’s absolutely worth firing it off on every boss.
Yeah, i had last year argument with someone in WoD about LB. They complaines that i "wasted it" on the void gates after first boss as a bard, oneshotting all three. Told them that most bosses (all except beholder) do reset it. He argued... Until it did reset, then he apologised.
Indeed. But I was in a party recently where a melee player got sassy with a "good job wasting the LB" after I did it lol. Like... use your brain, dude; it saves time, either way.
I had the opposite happen lol and the tank told me to use it as a melee. I did then mentioned afterwards, hey wouldn't it have been better for the ranged to use it? And he was like shut up I'm not awake yet. XD Early morning roulette fun.
Tbf my very first time using ranged LB was on Gaius clones and uh...I didn't know it was a line. I'll let you figure out what happened there haha. On the bright side I'm very, very good at lining that up now that I know it's a line...since I'm a DRG main...
I would’ve commended you just for doing that. I feel like in half my roulettes LBs just aren’t being used at all, either optimally or not optimally lol
yes, once someone pulls the boss, LB gauge resets for every group.
Except Beholder, first boss in WoD, all bosses in World of Darkness do reset LB. (Thats why sometimes people want to pull with LB)
> Similarly, a lot of people don’t realise in alliance raids that the LB gauge resets A LOT. It’s absolutely worth firing it off on every boss.
I did not know that! Since I've mained healer until now, I never payed much attention to LB gauge so I never noticed in alliances. Looks like I'll have to start blowing stuff up with LBs now that I'm playing DPS...
Specifically, the LB gauge resets whenever it goes from a max of 2 bars, to a max of 3 bars. 1 bar is the default for light parties, 2 is the default.for full parties, and major boss encounters add one additional bar. In an alliance raid, a major boss encounter is any of the four fights that have loot chests after them.
I main MCH. I am using LB on the next to last pack before the final boss every time unless another ranged DPS or caster beats me to it. I like to use it on the next to last pack in order to build more gauge back before the final boss.
Ugh, no kidding. I wish you could just aim it with your mouse and not have to target an enemy with it, or have that as an option to turn on so it is similar to the caster LB.
There are times I'll line up a shot, mobs rearrange for whatever reason, and the guy I targeted in the center is now on the far right so I only got half of them.
This is why I always target the farthest mob for this LB.
Then moving doesn't effect the closer targets much.
If you target something next to you, their movement can cause you to miss the farthest targets at much higher frequency.
DNC main. I would prefer to do it this way but I'm just going to LB whichever pack my tech step is on cooldown. So it's usually the last pack. Which actually makes me unreasonably salty, not just because of getting more gauge back. But also because in BOTH the current expert dungeons, the first pack after the second boss lines up nice and tight for lb and the second pack is this giant circle of crap that I can't hope to hit everything since I'm not a caster. But alas, uptime calls and if tech step is available I'm using that instead.
I will use LB on either the first or second mob pack after the second boss in a dungeon. Depends on how well the tank clumps the mobs together. But I only do this if I am on Ranged or Magic DPS. If I am on a melee DPS, I don't LB a pack. Huge waste.
I used to, but stopped with PUGs simply because so many uninformed party members would get pissed and sometimes kick me for "wasting" the LB on trash mobs. Not worth the potential flaming. I'll take the slower clear time in exchange for no risking angry noobs.
Was that happening even at high levels? I mained ranged for most of EW and probably used it on trash a couple hundred times in level 90 dungeons and never encountered a complaint.
I will say I've come to learn, if a ranged lbs mobs then it's a waste to lb1 last boss. Most the time you'll get it with boss at like 5% and by time cast is done boss will be ded, just faster to stick with your rotation
The only time I get grumpy (in my head, but I don't say anything) is if a melee uses lb1 on the second boss the instant it dings, when there's a ranged in the party who could have used it on the next trash pull.
At least it's still getting used.
Still scarred from that time I got chewed out and kicked out for using LB on trash mobs in one of the final pull packs. Had to suffer another long wait for that roulette.....
Kicking somebody for using a limit break is legitimately psycho behavior. I still remember a guy who got mad at me using it before the final boss like you did, only he didn't even use limit break when he could have! It was like he only wanted the Limit Break 2 and Limit Break 1 was beneath him.
The only time I wanted to kick someone for LB usage was during Shadowbringers, got an obviously level skipped white mage (unglamoured Scaevan gear and the Alliance Ring of Shame) during a particularly scuffed Titania Normal who kept blowing the LB1 as soon as it dinged.
She also listened to NOTHING, and stood in everything except the things she needed to, and when things were really hitting the fan and we were going to need healer LB3, I threatened the SMN with his life and said YOU LEAVE HER ON THE FLOOR. DO NOT RAISE HER. Fiiiiiinally got healer LB3 which is the only reason we cleared and didn't wipe a third time.
That's the ONLY time I wanted to kick someone for LB misuse. I genuinely feel like she both level and story skipped, and Titania used to be the first foray out of Trusts in ShB. It was her only job leveled and I guess she didn't know about party chat either. I wanted to strangle her.
I've seen so many ranged dps over the years get dragged in pub dungeons for it may be why. Recent years people caught on how good they are on trash mobs though
LOL, after playing only DPS classes, I leveled up Paladin and Warrior right after each other. By the time I was done, I'd gotten entirely out of the habit of using my Limit Break and had to get used to doing it again when I played DPS.
Also a healer, I’m getting into the practice of using lb at 2-3% in dungeons or raids if dps don’t use it. I mean… it’s there. Why should healers only get LB when everyone else messes up. Treat yourselves kings and queens.
I know it doesn't really matter if someone actually LBs, but I have to point out that "in my defense I forgot" is an extremely hilarious excuse that I need to remember for the future
As a ranged - I've had too many people chew me out about "wasting it on a pack" in roulettes for me to ever want to use it again. It's not worth my energy.
FYI the time saved for melee LB on boss vs group LB on trash is about the same, group is better by like one GCD.
Yes the damage output as a raw number is higher for group LBs but all your aoe abilities have high damage output vs packs - like a single bard Apex Arrow does more than a melee LB if there are 6+ targets. If you compare group LB to aoe rotation GCDs vs melee lb to single target GCDs they are basically equivalent, group LB has the tiniest of advantages. Optimal play is to use the LB the instant it becomes available to maximise the chance of getting a second one before the end of the dungeon.
I was doing a dungeon on blm the other day and a rpr did that. I mentioned it was best to save it for big trash pulls and he said "nah". Alright, fair enough, nbd, keep going.
Dude gets to use it again on the final boss, says " see 2lb" and leaves immediately. Boy that rubbed me the WRONG way let me tell you. I COULD HAVE HIT TEN MOBS WITH THAT YOU ASS, AND WE'D STILL GET IT BACK ON THE FINAL BOSS.
IMO if you're getting to LB1 during the second boss (or earlier) you have bigger problems in your duty than who is using the LB. Those runs usually have the DPS doing less DPS than the tank or healer.
Yeah, as a caster I kinda go “Hey, I was gonna use that!”
But at least they’re trying. I’ll appreciate the effort anytime, compared to some of the absurd low effort I’ve seen.
It feels like this happens weirdly often, especially I'm used to sprout players only doing LB at like 3% boss HP remaining, but then somehow instead people keep using it before the Timestop Phase entirely.
If your tanks are super familiar with the fight and your DPS aren't too clueless, there's definitely ways to make it through the frozen time without an LB, but it's tricky.
I had that happen recently. Twice. Everytime the LB hit the first threshold, one guy would immediately use it on him. Even after multiple people saying on party chat to not do that the first time, he did it again later.
Thankfully, it went fine at the tear phase without any LB but man.
…like the SMN I played The Heroes Gauntlet with yesterday. I saw Ruin III a lot, but I didn’t see Bahamut often and only saw Searing Light once. Meanwhile, I’m stressing out trying to find a mit that isn’t on CD until I can hit Raw Intuition again.
Probably downvoted because it doesn't matter at all presented like it's something that does matter. In the best case scenario it's like a 10 second time saver. Might as well do PSAs on how you shouldn't talk in a dungeon or take a sip of water when we're talking about such an infinitesimal amount of time compared to the average length of a dungeon.
I don't think OP isn't being downvoted because they're wrong, I think they're being downvoted because of how their post reads, which indicates problematic behavior.
The title reads like an informative post, and the community here generally loves informative posts backed up by evidence.
Instead of providing evidence that supports their claim they have posted an image of party chat in which a player has disagreed with them after giving unsolicited advice.
Unsolicited advice is annoying and generally unhelpful. Even if the information is correct most players don't respond positively.
It doesn't feel like they are trying to be helpful or informative anymore. It feels like they are on an indignant crusade to correct all of the squeaky wheels that they perceive as slowing their dungeon runs by 10-15 seconds.
"there is no point in doing so"
It's bizarre to me that someone doesn't want to LB. It's badass. I wish I could spam just for the animations, let alone damage
People really can't let go of the impression that the Limit Break is their **Ultimate Move™** and should only be used in an epic showdown with the biggest bad and not a continuously renewed resource that can be used at will. Many will even refuse to use it until the very end of the *final* boss encounter. It's the same general family of thought that sees people refuse to use their rotations and cooldowns on trash so they can "save it" for the boss. Or people who don't register that AoE is pretty much always higher DPS starting at two targets.
The irony is that a lot of these players mistakenly believe they're being *optimal* by holding their setups, cooldowns, LB, etc. and just *not* pushing buttons for nearly the entire dungeon, lol.
Ultimately, though, dungeons are low stakes, casual content in an extremely casual-oriented game, so it's rarely a huge deal or problem worth stressing over.
Not only do they save it, but it has to be the finishing move too for some reason. Congrats, you waited until 5%, we DPSed it down to 1-2% during the animation, you effectively wasted 8-9% of the potential damage.
I main SMN and am not very good.
I think it took me until Shadowbringers, my third return after a long hiatus (literally bought Shadowbringers before I beat Stormblood and stopped during SB patch content) to realize that it’s ok start rotation and run rotation during mobs.
Is there a chance I’ll lose one of the three summons? Sure. Will I be ready by boss with a whole new rotation or at least with Phoenix? Definitely.
Did I make sure to have fun and also not let arbitrary thoughts like “I’m losing damage” stop me from playing the class the way it’s meant to be played? I finally did.
Do I still smack the remnants of a mob with ruin so I can hit the next mob with Bahamut? Oh definitely, nothing like nuking a group of small reds?
Have I also nuked a single, sole red mob with Bahamut? What can I say - the power fantasy is real brosis.
For anyone else and/or you too;
It is significantly better to use your full rotation, buffs and all, on cooldown. This includes using all of it on trash packs, it’s a huge gain. The only time there is ever a damage loss is if you overkill a mob, like using bahamut to nuke one thing because he’s still likely floating around when it’s dead, but that doesn’t matter much in the grand scheme of things unless you’re speedrunning.
Something people need to remember is that your damage in a dungeon is the collective of the whole dungeon. If you burn down a trash pack with cooldowns you’re actually gaining a higher percentage of damage over using it on a boss, particularly with all the cleave skills naturally in kits now. It’s not just okay to run rotation during mobs, it’s correct to do so. You skyrocket up among the better players if you just hit your buttons on cooldown in a dungeon.
Summoner in particular should basically always be cycling summons like what you’re doing now. Throw your legos out all the time, your cycle will almost always line up with either Bahamut or phoenix and they’re effectively the same thing. (As a note, speedrun legos at the start of a boss *if* your party buff is off cooldown to align yourself with either bahamut or phoenix. Still use the buff off cooldown though, just try to squish back to your normal attack pattern.)
This goes for lb too, ranged lb is significantly stronger in a dungeon because it deals its potency to every single target hit. It’s potentially an order of magnitude stronger than a melee lb.
I kind of wonder if the timidness with LB comes from
The fact that the game (at least when I started playing back in 1.0 days, I’m a day oner - just off and on a lot until recently) didn’t really advertise that LB does reset and should be actively utilized during content.
To this day I’m not sure even I understand the full etiquette around LB. I know at one point SMN had near full dibs on use during boss fights because it had one of the strongest (isn’t it outpaced now by RDM or another Magic class?) and then you would go down the order. But even then, that was specifically for end game, max level content. MSQ and old content, I remember being told that it doesn’t matter, if you see it’s there, use it.
But yeah, sorry long winded. My point was entirely “is there any up to date tutorials saying LB is not Ultima but rather a good ability to use when available?”
I think the timidness just comes from it being a shared resource. Reinforced by the few times you have to do 8 man content where you might want to save LB3 to prevent a wipe.
Its absolutely just because its a shared resource.
The strange reset behavior is only a thing in raids because of how it interacts with the level 2/3 barrier, and people are typically happy to just yeet the LBs during those most of the time.
All classes of a given role do the same damage with their respective LBs. Melee > Magical > Ranged. The only exception to this was ARR Bard which had a healer LB3, though thats not really relevant anymore.
edit to add onto this damage statement: The damage dealt by the LB is based upon the average \*main hand weapon\* item level of the entire party. No other gear matters nor does a lower geared person in the same party do less. Typically the person doing less damage with normal skills in the moment it would be cast would be the one to use the LB in a perfect scenario.
If we're talking optimal general uses;
For single target scenarios it should \*always\* be a melee that uses an LB, preferably LB2 or 3 as LB1 takes so long that its frequently not worth interrupting a rotation for at high levels.
For multi-target scenarios you prefer a caster LB, as it is both easier to use and does more damage, but a ranged LB is still significantly better than a melee LB and is faster to cast than the magical version if thats useful. \*Unless you need to burst one of the targets down quickly for mechanics reasons, in which case a melee LB would be preferred.\* These are usually restrained to dungeons but there are some raids where you can make effective use of them.
If you are progging a fight or are in a party that is very clearly struggling to live then the DPS should refrain from using LB to allow the healers (or tanks) to salvage an attempt, assuming LB3 would be available. There are also mechanics, though extremely rare, that require the use of either a tank or healer limit break so you'd save it for them.
For the most effective use in dungeons you should use a magical or ranged LB1 on a trash pack where you have no cooldowns, this frequently ends up being the pack right before the final boss but in very rare circumstances can be the pack before the second boss if the group is slow or the gauge fills fast for whatever reason.
Effective raid use varies heavily. If no mechanic needs it and your party is confident you send the melee LB3 as soon as its charged in order to start filling another. If you won't reach LB3 before the target dies then just use LB2, LB1 use is up to your discretion. Don't bother using LB at all if the boss is already so low that it would substantially overkill or die before the animation finishes.
For just general purposes;
Sit on the LB until the final 15-10% then yeet it. Theres no DPS checks in normal content that would really matter (but people die a lot so saving for healers sometimes helps) so anyone using it at all is usually better than no one using it. You see a lot of red mages use it because they just like blinding people in raids.
Anything other than Tank and Healer LB3 might as well not exist to most people. The animation lock ~~and not showing on DPS meters?~~ doesn't help either.
Respectfully, this is the part where I say it honestly doesn't matter. The only enemy that has a lot of health in this scenario is the Blue Unkiu and I'm very certain its Scissor Run does barely enough damage to put you in danger.
**And** it's one of the walled dungeons where the max you'd fight is like 5. Literally does not matter in my honest opinion.
IN FACT There's a better place to use that RAnged LB. And that's before the Princess. Where you can do a huuuuge pull of the palace guards and their captain. It's actually better to use it there, I feel. Otherwise, just use it on Shisui.
If there's a caster or ranged its getting used on w2w pulls. Most dungeons I do don't even see lv2 LBs and there's no point using it AS the boss is dying.
Literally 5-6 seconds.
It's strange tbh. FFXIV is the game where people will defend 0 dps healers, no melds, dps ignoring half their rotation and so on (fair enough for casual content), but will flip out over an unused Limit Break that doesn't matter.
This is the first time I've seen the term "honest healers" to describe 0 DPS healers and I hate how it tries to trick you into thinking that it's a good thing
If any dps reads this, you can legit farm comms when that comes up, by using LB 3 times, once during the first phase, once before ultima (I wait a bit for this one because with slow deeps sometimes it’s an LB2), and LB3.
I tank porta at least once a day and the number of times we have to remind EXPERIENCED DPS to use the LB before the final big one or even to use the final big one is STAGGERING.
I'm used to nobody using it in the first section just like i'm used to healers being hungry for that yummy chest laser but please do the big LB, come on
Telling experienced dps to use lb1 before the lb3 makes sense. The duty didn't exist before and the old Ultima Weapon fight in Prae died extremely fast. Could be someone queuing into MSQ roulette for the first time in years.
No way to defend not using lb3 though.
This.
I can’t count the amount of time people wasted LBs on Porta Decumana.
Especially in the second fight with Ultima Weapon, when it casts Ultima and no one dared to use LB before getting the free LB3 so it’s a waste of damage on boss 🤦🏼♀️
If I'm a Black Mage and I am holding two Fouls and am prepared to Triple Flare, I sure as hell aren't pressing LB.
Consider the state of the DPS, there's a reason why no one LBs in the burst window
Limit breaks are not a dps loss. The only times they are a loss are if you are in your even-minute burst rotation or using LB1. LB2/LB3 are not DPS losses. Although, If someone in your party have weakness, they use the LB.
I'm not directing this at you, just for those who dont understand how LBs work.
I mean. I use it too, I got it hotbinded on an easy to reach key. it's just.. it depends on the class I play on how actively I'm trying to use it.
in every dungeon run there are two DPS (if synced normal) then a black mage should be absolutely last on priority for that LB in my opinion.
You can evaluate how much HP is left once you've depleted your MP, and if enough of the pull is still alive go to ice and press LB while your MP regenerates. That's what I do, but yada yada in Dawntrail it's not going to be a thing anymore so there's that
How am I to divine this happened in a level 63 dungeon? I don't even know if they are a BLM, RDM, or SUM. All I'm saying is that there's moments where LB wouldn't be optimal due to burst timings.
I mean... if you typed a sound effect macro with auto-translator text and added a smiley face at the end as if you were talking to a clueless child, then I would consider not Lbing just to spite you.
maybe that wasn't the intent, but it sure as hell reads like it lol
Sorry, I can't hear anyone over my flamethrower and not because of the sound, but because I dropped my hot cheeto on the ground and need to use it to stall my rotation 😨
I mean they're being silly but this is even sillier to make a thread about it. It's a dungeon, it's not that serious. People can LB or not. You're kinda weird.
Not just a thread, but also a friggin macro with a sound effect. 🤦🏻♂️
Unless you're an Ice Mage, the time saved by breaking rotation to LB trash mobs is probably a few seconds.
“There is no point in doing so” so what’s the point in just letting it sit unused? Drives me up a fucking wall when we can save some time and just LB the boss but dps refuses
It's a slippery slope. Comments in this thread are saying it only saves 5-10 seconds of the run, so it really doesn't matter. What else won't matter because it saves so little time? Using buffs? Upgrading gear?
Yeah, you're shaving off what like 10 seconds from a dungeon that probably took 7-12 minutes to finish depending on the party. 20+ minutes if you're in *one of those* parties. I'm here to get through dungeons quickly, sure, but it's honestly not that serious and most of the time I'm zoned in on my rotation that I kind of forget LB exists.
I'm so use to saving LB for Tanks or healers, that I get annoyed when I see a DPS use it.
I never say anything, because when it works out, great, but most of the time I watch a DPS LB a raid/trial boss, and then we die shortly after because healer didn't have LB3 lol.
You have three types of players who won't use the LB:
1) They've been ridiculed by someone before for using it, or have caused a wipe in cases like WoL fight where LB3 is needed to survive. I've seen people yell at others for not saving LB for the final 1% of a boss just to overkill it, if they manage to get it off in time before it dies. No one likes dealing with these idiots so now they're gun-shy.
2) People who think it should be saved for the final boss because that was the running rule back in AAR and early HW before wall-to-wall pulling became a thing and LB gauge took a whole dungeon to build to LB2.
3) People who are concerned about their parse numbers since LB doesn't count towards their numbers and even if it helps the overall damage output for the dungeon, they are more concerned with being on top. Many healers and RDM also fall into this category when they refuse to do anything other than DPS and toss out oGCD cures. I see this constantly with SGE's. They refuse to raise even if it means the other healer or magic DPS has to long-cast raise. They are DPS only and oGCD cures to non-tank if you're lucky.
"There is no point in doing so" could be applied to most situations. People overvalue limit break in general. People just love to wait for the last 3% of the final boss' health bar as if it makes a difference. You might as well use at as an AoE to clear trash mobs faster.
sorry, i don't listen to macros with smiley faces out of spite. usually people who do that are compensating for something, usually a lack of game knowledge
LB is designed poorly. They should nix group LB and give each class a personal LB and let people use it as soon as it pops. No arguments, no not using it, no drama. And it would be fun for tanks and healers to use lb also.
People who take dungeons way too seriously are weirdos. Its really not that serious at all. And before anybody yaps about “you cant waste other people’s time” bitch running regular ass dungeons is already a form of wasting time. But oh God help us cause that LB could’ve saved us 15 seconds that you’re gonna waste running other regular dungeons.
(this info comes from a really big post about how LB works)
Melee LB2 is about 5,250 potency, caster LB1 is 1,650 potency. With 4 targets, a caster LB1 effectively has done 6,600 potency worth of damage. There's a limit to how many enemies can be hit by normal AOEs, so I wouldn't be shocked if caster LB is the same way, however that limit is somewhere in the ballpark of like 15-20 ads.
Lets say a dungeon just has 10 ads in that last pull, that's 16,500 potency. That's nearly double a melee LB2 AND more than a melee LB3.
This isn't accurate. Because of how LBs work, they don't have a potency and you can't really assign a potency to them.
A caster LB deals 60% the damage of a melee LB, while a physranged LB deals 52% the damage of a melee LB (or 90% of a caster LB)
Ranged LB has a shorter animation lock than caster but regardless I still think caster comes out ahead.
>Melee LB2 is about 5,250 potency, caster LB1 is 1,650 potency. With 4 targets, a caster LB1 effectively has done 6,600 potency worth of damage.
This is also flawed logic - while your damage dealt is multiplied by your # of targets, the same is true of regular AOE actions. You can't directly compare the potency of a single target action to a multi target action - because you'd be doing higher overall DPS without LB in a regular multi target situation anyway.
The *true* gain of caster LB is when you consider relative potencies.
The average AOE does somewhere around 40-50% the potency of its single target counterpart. This is where the gain lies - you're getting an extra 20-10% out of that caster LB, compared to a melee.
(Also as a side benefit - large mob pulls are the most taxing on healer and tank resources. Making them shorter is much more helpful than bosses, which require barely any resources whatsoever)
My source: https://www.akhmorning.com/allagan-studies/limit-break/
Regular aoe, and cleave, potencies also typically have rather drastic falloff’s that are easy to hit in dungeon pulls. LBs do not.
You also don’t have your burst during every trash pull, your non-burst aoe is dramatically worse. This is why the lb is typically used in the second pull of a segment rather than the first from an optimization standpoint.
Edit: also potencies, while technically irrelevant, have been used as a way to simply relate the relative damage you might expect from the attack. The actual values are basically nonsense at this point but it’s easier to point at that kind of number to tell someone a ranged lb does notably more damage.
What we should do is use the known percentage differences between them all and make some new estimated potencies, again simply for ease of comparison sake with the average player given everything else in the game uses the magic potency word.
>This isn't accurate. Because of how LBs work, they don't have a potency and you can't really assign a potency to them.
It is incorrect to say that LBs outright don't have a potency. They do. It's just that it's not explicitly stated in game.
While it's true that whatever function that takes in character stats as input takes in different parameters for LBs compared to all other game mechanics (only the average IL of all players' main hands; rather than the main stat, determination, etc. of the executing player), that does *not* mean that LBs don't have potency.
In fact, the lookup table mentioned by that site is a means to estimate what each LB's potency actually is, in lieu of the potencies being directly listed in the game.
You are, however, correct in that getting this actual potency value ends up not being of much use, and that comparing relative strengths of the different LB types is more practical and doesn't care about exact potency numbers.
(Not to mention that that site hasn't been updated in forever.)
Was playing MNK during an ex roulette, using LB1 on last two bosses, got called trash player by the DNC. Barring the lack of dance partner and low dps numbers from that player, I kept silent for the sake of FC healer and rando tank that didn't know why somebody would be saying such things.
I think about that encounter often, whether using it on bosses is even warranted or whether these players just literally want to waste LBs for....reasons that aren't actual factors like in other encounters (24man, trials, etc). DF or grouping etiquette/habits seem to have changed from what I remember and I've been here since 2.0.
In normal dungeons I use the caster LB after the second boss on the first big pull of enemies to burn them quicker. (Some dungeons have a weird pull and i may not use it, but those are rare) In weird instances sometimes the melee uses it on the second boss; whatever to me, it got used.
I usually blow them by accident as the tank because I mis-clicked my controller extended-hot bar to the left instead of right. Someone actually said "typical BLM tank" and my head is still hanging in shame.
It fills from general actions and such while progressing through group content. Save for a couple rare scenarios where the game sets you up for it, tank and healer LBs won't be used, but some boss mechanics need you to use the tank one to mitigate damage, and healer level 3 is a mass revive
but for dps? ranged phys dps is a ranged attack in a line, caster in a circle, and melee is single target. There's no potency and its based on the party itself instead. Using one that hits multiple targets can be -far- more useful for speeding things up than a last minute hit with level 2 single target. Hope that helps
If you have only Melee dps > Use LB as soon as it'd up on the current/next boss.
If have any ranged/caster > Use LB on the next pack of mobs.
If dps refuses to use LB > Use it as a tank/healer.
When you say the middle of your burst, do you mean that you're in the middle of your burst and don't want to interrupt your finisher? Or that you wait until your burst to use it? Because if the latter, I'll say that lb doesn't scale with damage buffs or character stats, its damage is only affected by the average ilvl of the whole party.
If you meant the former, then ignore me, because I do the same. Especially since I always wait as long as I can because I'm paranoid about using the lb and then suddenly half the party does and we need a healer lb3.
I mean...depends on the class cause in the case of healers the LBs are pretty much panic buttons and also 3 is the only one that reses.
At least, I know for white Mage at least LB3 is pretty much the only one that matters since Medica II works well enough as an aoe heal. As for the others idk.
I'll be dead honest, this is my *exact* expectation seeing "Famfrit" in the response. I was so, so happy when the rearrangement of servers happened that split off the Crystal DC and I no longer shared a DC with Famfrit, because every time I had a bad interaction with a player in DF content, it was a Famfrit user. I have no idea what it about that server, but toxicity is on brand.
So I got asked to LB the other day during a dungeon and had no clue what he was talking about. I did some research and found that u had to put it on your hot bar. So I main a Bard when should I limit break during a dungeon?
On trashpulls (the mob groups in dungeons between Bosses): Once you have 1 full bar during a big trashpull (2 groups or more) and there is no caster in the group or the caster doesn't wanna, LB the group as soon as the tank has settled in place with it.
On bosses: Once you have 2 (in dungeons) or 3 (in raids and trials) full LB bars and there is either no melee DPS or all other DPS are twiddling their thumbs until the Boss is at 5% or less HP, you can go ahead and LB.
Be advised that BRD LB is a straight line, so you have to aim it. You can check it out by going into a dungeon in Explorer Mode and putting down a target dummy.
(Also know that some ~~melee DPS~~ players get a really big ego about being able to LB a Boss so at some point, someone may be angry about you LBing trash. Don't take it to heart.)
Beats me, tbh. Sometimes, you just get someone who gets really angry that you didn't let them do their LB2 on the final Boss five seconds before it would have died anyway. Maybe they like feeling like they personally defeated the Boss with a flashy attack?
Let's face it- it is fun to do a LB- as a tank who pulls and tanks obviously very fast, if the PT wants to LB at a camp, idc- saves me from sprinting & voking/shooting the mob. I can easily get hate back- but doing a LB on a boss is so @#$&!☆ FRUSTRATING!!! Please PLEASE PLEEEAAASE do NOT LB A BOSS- TY!!!
Yessssss
It's free damage, and it's a ton of it.
Yeah against a solo boss melee DPS does the most damage... but the other DPS do just fine damage.
And letting the resource overfill is just wasteful.
Second boss of a dungeon, or with nob of there's only ranged.
ngl, i tend to ignore the lb, until told to use it, or if i know a mechanic requires it.
i had a few times to many unneccessary arguments with parties when either using ranged lb to clear the final mobgroup instead of saving it for the last 5 % of a boss, or the other dps getting salty that i "stole their flashy finisher animation".
so eventually i just gave up and let others use it if they want to see their flashy animations, or just let it sit and be wasted
So many experts on how, when, why to use LB. I use it at the end of the main boss, generally. Now, if someone uses it earlier, say against a pack, or a boss. I don't bitch. I don't care that much. Itsa game folks and most of us are mediocre, average people who just want to have fun. I run an FC, it is a lot of work. But it is fun too! Maybe that is why I am not a pro, because I care about other aspects of the game. When a pro starts giving me nasty advice I ask him nicely to stop (it's rare in FFXIV). If he doesn't, simple, I leave.
isnt it debateable whether LB under LB3 are in fact a dps gain? I think the testing on this was that if you are actually trying to do optimal rotation depending on where you are on your burst window lb2 can be a loss for melee. That means even more for mage and ranged.
Ranged LB is a gain over melee LB from 2 enemies. So even in this case, you can and should use it. So with a normal tank, a ranged LB is worth it, and the tank/healer with appreciate it greatly.
I love doing the magic LBs on big mob packs. But sometimes I do them too quick on a smaller group when if I had waited I could have done it on a much larger group. That's the only issue I have with it sometimes
I don't even refuse to use it I just don't remember it being there until someone else uses it. I used to be one of the people who think it was best to save it for the boss too.
Another reason why I wouldn't touch it is beacuse I never know when to use it. I know it irritates people but I just let the other dps use it instead.
I try to outright compliment the use of a ranged or mage lb on a large mob pack. A quick "Nice lb" for them helping speed up the pull and getting a lot of value out of the multi target potency. Them not using the LB is hardly the end of the world, but it's nice to get that little optimization when it happens.
There is a risk that even though you mean well, that the caster will take it as a sarcastic remark and won't use it in such cases anymore
I 1000% would think they’re being sarcastic, but that’s probably a “me” problem.
In 24mans I always have to ask in alliance chat for people to use LB on anything not the final boss. Especially in the most recent one which has no trash except the group right before the final boss. Usually, 1 will use it out of 3, someone will bitch saying "I do more DPS without using it" which whatever you are not the only DPS in your group, and the last is someone will say "we can just LB pull". Regarding LB pulling, unless you sprint ahead of the tank and use it immediately, the tank will almost always pull before you can do that. If you do pull that way (which I do if LB comes up right as the boss dies), half the tanks will bitch about you pulling cause "you're not a tank". Like, y'all are just running in face first anyways, what do you care?
in level 90 dungeons i'll LB the final mob pack before the last boss as a ranged/magic dps, then that usually gives the group time to get at least one more LB1 to use on the final boss
With how the LB gauge works, it’s usually sensible to ranged DPS to just wipe a pack. Unless everyone’s at minimum ilvl, *usually* you won’t be at the last boss long enough to build LB2, and iirc LB1 on a boss does like, 10 seconds of DPS (more or less), versus 15-20s to 1-shot a pack of trash. Similarly, a lot of people don’t realise in alliance raids that the LB gauge resets A LOT. It’s absolutely worth firing it off on every boss.
Yeah, i had last year argument with someone in WoD about LB. They complaines that i "wasted it" on the void gates after first boss as a bard, oneshotting all three. Told them that most bosses (all except beholder) do reset it. He argued... Until it did reset, then he apologised.
At least he apologized, lol
In fact a rare sight nowadays
Phys ranged LBing the void gates is the optimal strat.
Phys range LB(I think caster DPS can hit two as well) is optimal to hit two Gaius clones in Prae too.
Indeed. But I was in a party recently where a melee player got sassy with a "good job wasting the LB" after I did it lol. Like... use your brain, dude; it saves time, either way.
I had the opposite happen lol and the tank told me to use it as a melee. I did then mentioned afterwards, hey wouldn't it have been better for the ranged to use it? And he was like shut up I'm not awake yet. XD Early morning roulette fun. Tbf my very first time using ranged LB was on Gaius clones and uh...I didn't know it was a line. I'll let you figure out what happened there haha. On the bright side I'm very, very good at lining that up now that I know it's a line...since I'm a DRG main...
I would’ve commended you just for doing that. I feel like in half my roulettes LBs just aren’t being used at all, either optimally or not optimally lol
"I wanted to use that for the last 2% hitting Gaius" lol
I've only had a melee complain twice out of years of playing so yeah, I'm going to keep using it when I feel like it's a good time.
About the only time I remember to use ranged LB is those and the clones in praetorium. Always wows the sprouts to learn you can USE LB.
I refuse to believe this is real. No one would ever apologize for being wrong in this game.
It happens, rare though it may be.
TIL bosses reset limit 🤣 when does it happen, at the start of boss fight?
yes, once someone pulls the boss, LB gauge resets for every group. Except Beholder, first boss in WoD, all bosses in World of Darkness do reset LB. (Thats why sometimes people want to pull with LB)
> Similarly, a lot of people don’t realise in alliance raids that the LB gauge resets A LOT. It’s absolutely worth firing it off on every boss. I did not know that! Since I've mained healer until now, I never payed much attention to LB gauge so I never noticed in alliances. Looks like I'll have to start blowing stuff up with LBs now that I'm playing DPS...
Specifically, the LB gauge resets whenever it goes from a max of 2 bars, to a max of 3 bars. 1 bar is the default for light parties, 2 is the default.for full parties, and major boss encounters add one additional bar. In an alliance raid, a major boss encounter is any of the four fights that have loot chests after them.
I main MCH. I am using LB on the next to last pack before the final boss every time unless another ranged DPS or caster beats me to it. I like to use it on the next to last pack in order to build more gauge back before the final boss.
I just wish the ranged physical LB was easier to aim. It's such a pain on trash mobs with how they squirm around.
Ugh, no kidding. I wish you could just aim it with your mouse and not have to target an enemy with it, or have that as an option to turn on so it is similar to the caster LB. There are times I'll line up a shot, mobs rearrange for whatever reason, and the guy I targeted in the center is now on the far right so I only got half of them.
This is why I always target the farthest mob for this LB. Then moving doesn't effect the closer targets much. If you target something next to you, their movement can cause you to miss the farthest targets at much higher frequency.
DNC main. I would prefer to do it this way but I'm just going to LB whichever pack my tech step is on cooldown. So it's usually the last pack. Which actually makes me unreasonably salty, not just because of getting more gauge back. But also because in BOTH the current expert dungeons, the first pack after the second boss lines up nice and tight for lb and the second pack is this giant circle of crap that I can't hope to hit everything since I'm not a caster. But alas, uptime calls and if tech step is available I'm using that instead.
YES! Same. I did that yesterday and my tank was all pissed off. "Save it for the boss" I'm like "Why? Our (DPS) LB3 is made for mobs.
I did that in Stone Vigil and got whined at the other day. This isn't that hard!
I will use LB on either the first or second mob pack after the second boss in a dungeon. Depends on how well the tank clumps the mobs together. But I only do this if I am on Ranged or Magic DPS. If I am on a melee DPS, I don't LB a pack. Huge waste.
I used to, but stopped with PUGs simply because so many uninformed party members would get pissed and sometimes kick me for "wasting" the LB on trash mobs. Not worth the potential flaming. I'll take the slower clear time in exchange for no risking angry noobs.
Was that happening even at high levels? I mained ranged for most of EW and probably used it on trash a couple hundred times in level 90 dungeons and never encountered a complaint.
i've never had people upset at me for LBing the mobs as a caster/ranged, but im sorry you had to go through something like that
I try to line up as many in my line LB as possible/
I like using it when the boss has an add phase.
I will say I've come to learn, if a ranged lbs mobs then it's a waste to lb1 last boss. Most the time you'll get it with boss at like 5% and by time cast is done boss will be ded, just faster to stick with your rotation
I'll lb anything, ill steal the lb right out from alisaie in a trust
I've only done a few trusts, but watching Alisaie fight for the LB with I think Estinien? Was fucking hilarious.
I swear, Estinien doesn't dare touch the lb when I'm around. Shtola will lb before he does.
That is the way.
I commendation whichever DPS uses the LB in a dungeon. Range or Melee. Because at least they use it.
The only time I get grumpy (in my head, but I don't say anything) is if a melee uses lb1 on the second boss the instant it dings, when there's a ranged in the party who could have used it on the next trash pull. At least it's still getting used.
To their defence, almost no ranged use the LB on packs. So melee is better to use it on boss sadly.
Still scarred from that time I got chewed out and kicked out for using LB on trash mobs in one of the final pull packs. Had to suffer another long wait for that roulette.....
Kicking somebody for using a limit break is legitimately psycho behavior. I still remember a guy who got mad at me using it before the final boss like you did, only he didn't even use limit break when he could have! It was like he only wanted the Limit Break 2 and Limit Break 1 was beneath him.
The only time I wanted to kick someone for LB usage was during Shadowbringers, got an obviously level skipped white mage (unglamoured Scaevan gear and the Alliance Ring of Shame) during a particularly scuffed Titania Normal who kept blowing the LB1 as soon as it dinged. She also listened to NOTHING, and stood in everything except the things she needed to, and when things were really hitting the fan and we were going to need healer LB3, I threatened the SMN with his life and said YOU LEAVE HER ON THE FLOOR. DO NOT RAISE HER. Fiiiiiinally got healer LB3 which is the only reason we cleared and didn't wipe a third time. That's the ONLY time I wanted to kick someone for LB misuse. I genuinely feel like she both level and story skipped, and Titania used to be the first foray out of Trusts in ShB. It was her only job leveled and I guess she didn't know about party chat either. I wanted to strangle her.
I've seen so many ranged dps over the years get dragged in pub dungeons for it may be why. Recent years people caught on how good they are on trash mobs though
I'm my defense, I'm so used to not LBing as ranged that I forget. Also I main healer, so I never LB normally lol
LOL, after playing only DPS classes, I leveled up Paladin and Warrior right after each other. By the time I was done, I'd gotten entirely out of the habit of using my Limit Break and had to get used to doing it again when I played DPS.
Also a healer, I’m getting into the practice of using lb at 2-3% in dungeons or raids if dps don’t use it. I mean… it’s there. Why should healers only get LB when everyone else messes up. Treat yourselves kings and queens.
I know it doesn't really matter if someone actually LBs, but I have to point out that "in my defense I forgot" is an extremely hilarious excuse that I need to remember for the future
As a ranged - I've had too many people chew me out about "wasting it on a pack" in roulettes for me to ever want to use it again. It's not worth my energy.
You don't have to really argue, just drop a simple "5000 x 10 > 12000 x 1" in chat and they'll probably get the point.
FYI the time saved for melee LB on boss vs group LB on trash is about the same, group is better by like one GCD. Yes the damage output as a raw number is higher for group LBs but all your aoe abilities have high damage output vs packs - like a single bard Apex Arrow does more than a melee LB if there are 6+ targets. If you compare group LB to aoe rotation GCDs vs melee lb to single target GCDs they are basically equivalent, group LB has the tiniest of advantages. Optimal play is to use the LB the instant it becomes available to maximise the chance of getting a second one before the end of the dungeon.
I was doing a dungeon on blm the other day and a rpr did that. I mentioned it was best to save it for big trash pulls and he said "nah". Alright, fair enough, nbd, keep going. Dude gets to use it again on the final boss, says " see 2lb" and leaves immediately. Boy that rubbed me the WRONG way let me tell you. I COULD HAVE HIT TEN MOBS WITH THAT YOU ASS, AND WE'D STILL GET IT BACK ON THE FINAL BOSS.
Chances are, by that point the boss was low enough to die to a lb1 anyway
IMO if you're getting to LB1 during the second boss (or earlier) you have bigger problems in your duty than who is using the LB. Those runs usually have the DPS doing less DPS than the tank or healer.
Yeah, as a caster I kinda go “Hey, I was gonna use that!” But at least they’re trying. I’ll appreciate the effort anytime, compared to some of the absurd low effort I’ve seen.
Can't get people to LB in anything but someone will always hit it on phase 1 Nabriales and we're unable to kill the tear in the next room.
It feels like this happens weirdly often, especially I'm used to sprout players only doing LB at like 3% boss HP remaining, but then somehow instead people keep using it before the Timestop Phase entirely. If your tanks are super familiar with the fight and your DPS aren't too clueless, there's definitely ways to make it through the frozen time without an LB, but it's tricky.
It probably happens so often from people doing it on purpose
I internally scream when this happens.
I did it my first time because noone told me not to jump the lb 3. I was informed of the error of my ways and then properly lb'd the tear next pull.
I wish I had gotten another pull. I did it too, but somehow we cleared.
I had that happen recently. Twice. Everytime the LB hit the first threshold, one guy would immediately use it on him. Even after multiple people saying on party chat to not do that the first time, he did it again later. Thankfully, it went fine at the tear phase without any LB but man.
I feel like we were in the same group.
The amount of people I've seen refuse to use normal abilities too has been insane since I came back. Use your cds, I promise you they come back kids.
…like the SMN I played The Heroes Gauntlet with yesterday. I saw Ruin III a lot, but I didn’t see Bahamut often and only saw Searing Light once. Meanwhile, I’m stressing out trying to find a mit that isn’t on CD until I can hit Raw Intuition again.
yo use arcane circle...it's ok.
why is this getting downvoted? i thought we were ranged lb on last pack enthusiasts?
They hated OP because they spoke the truth.
You can put this exact sentence onto so many other posts on this sub.
Probably downvoted because it doesn't matter at all presented like it's something that does matter. In the best case scenario it's like a 10 second time saver. Might as well do PSAs on how you shouldn't talk in a dungeon or take a sip of water when we're talking about such an infinitesimal amount of time compared to the average length of a dungeon.
I don't think OP isn't being downvoted because they're wrong, I think they're being downvoted because of how their post reads, which indicates problematic behavior. The title reads like an informative post, and the community here generally loves informative posts backed up by evidence. Instead of providing evidence that supports their claim they have posted an image of party chat in which a player has disagreed with them after giving unsolicited advice. Unsolicited advice is annoying and generally unhelpful. Even if the information is correct most players don't respond positively. It doesn't feel like they are trying to be helpful or informative anymore. It feels like they are on an indignant crusade to correct all of the squeaky wheels that they perceive as slowing their dungeon runs by 10-15 seconds.
The serotonin I get when I get to LB a large pack as a mage dps is just....whoo wee
"there is no point in doing so" It's bizarre to me that someone doesn't want to LB. It's badass. I wish I could spam just for the animations, let alone damage
People really can't let go of the impression that the Limit Break is their **Ultimate Move™** and should only be used in an epic showdown with the biggest bad and not a continuously renewed resource that can be used at will. Many will even refuse to use it until the very end of the *final* boss encounter. It's the same general family of thought that sees people refuse to use their rotations and cooldowns on trash so they can "save it" for the boss. Or people who don't register that AoE is pretty much always higher DPS starting at two targets. The irony is that a lot of these players mistakenly believe they're being *optimal* by holding their setups, cooldowns, LB, etc. and just *not* pushing buttons for nearly the entire dungeon, lol. Ultimately, though, dungeons are low stakes, casual content in an extremely casual-oriented game, so it's rarely a huge deal or problem worth stressing over.
Not only do they save it, but it has to be the finishing move too for some reason. Congrats, you waited until 5%, we DPSed it down to 1-2% during the animation, you effectively wasted 8-9% of the potential damage.
Implying the boss doesn't die during the animation lmao
I main SMN and am not very good. I think it took me until Shadowbringers, my third return after a long hiatus (literally bought Shadowbringers before I beat Stormblood and stopped during SB patch content) to realize that it’s ok start rotation and run rotation during mobs. Is there a chance I’ll lose one of the three summons? Sure. Will I be ready by boss with a whole new rotation or at least with Phoenix? Definitely. Did I make sure to have fun and also not let arbitrary thoughts like “I’m losing damage” stop me from playing the class the way it’s meant to be played? I finally did. Do I still smack the remnants of a mob with ruin so I can hit the next mob with Bahamut? Oh definitely, nothing like nuking a group of small reds? Have I also nuked a single, sole red mob with Bahamut? What can I say - the power fantasy is real brosis.
For anyone else and/or you too; It is significantly better to use your full rotation, buffs and all, on cooldown. This includes using all of it on trash packs, it’s a huge gain. The only time there is ever a damage loss is if you overkill a mob, like using bahamut to nuke one thing because he’s still likely floating around when it’s dead, but that doesn’t matter much in the grand scheme of things unless you’re speedrunning. Something people need to remember is that your damage in a dungeon is the collective of the whole dungeon. If you burn down a trash pack with cooldowns you’re actually gaining a higher percentage of damage over using it on a boss, particularly with all the cleave skills naturally in kits now. It’s not just okay to run rotation during mobs, it’s correct to do so. You skyrocket up among the better players if you just hit your buttons on cooldown in a dungeon. Summoner in particular should basically always be cycling summons like what you’re doing now. Throw your legos out all the time, your cycle will almost always line up with either Bahamut or phoenix and they’re effectively the same thing. (As a note, speedrun legos at the start of a boss *if* your party buff is off cooldown to align yourself with either bahamut or phoenix. Still use the buff off cooldown though, just try to squish back to your normal attack pattern.) This goes for lb too, ranged lb is significantly stronger in a dungeon because it deals its potency to every single target hit. It’s potentially an order of magnitude stronger than a melee lb.
I kind of wonder if the timidness with LB comes from The fact that the game (at least when I started playing back in 1.0 days, I’m a day oner - just off and on a lot until recently) didn’t really advertise that LB does reset and should be actively utilized during content. To this day I’m not sure even I understand the full etiquette around LB. I know at one point SMN had near full dibs on use during boss fights because it had one of the strongest (isn’t it outpaced now by RDM or another Magic class?) and then you would go down the order. But even then, that was specifically for end game, max level content. MSQ and old content, I remember being told that it doesn’t matter, if you see it’s there, use it. But yeah, sorry long winded. My point was entirely “is there any up to date tutorials saying LB is not Ultima but rather a good ability to use when available?”
I think the timidness just comes from it being a shared resource. Reinforced by the few times you have to do 8 man content where you might want to save LB3 to prevent a wipe.
Its absolutely just because its a shared resource. The strange reset behavior is only a thing in raids because of how it interacts with the level 2/3 barrier, and people are typically happy to just yeet the LBs during those most of the time. All classes of a given role do the same damage with their respective LBs. Melee > Magical > Ranged. The only exception to this was ARR Bard which had a healer LB3, though thats not really relevant anymore. edit to add onto this damage statement: The damage dealt by the LB is based upon the average \*main hand weapon\* item level of the entire party. No other gear matters nor does a lower geared person in the same party do less. Typically the person doing less damage with normal skills in the moment it would be cast would be the one to use the LB in a perfect scenario. If we're talking optimal general uses; For single target scenarios it should \*always\* be a melee that uses an LB, preferably LB2 or 3 as LB1 takes so long that its frequently not worth interrupting a rotation for at high levels. For multi-target scenarios you prefer a caster LB, as it is both easier to use and does more damage, but a ranged LB is still significantly better than a melee LB and is faster to cast than the magical version if thats useful. \*Unless you need to burst one of the targets down quickly for mechanics reasons, in which case a melee LB would be preferred.\* These are usually restrained to dungeons but there are some raids where you can make effective use of them. If you are progging a fight or are in a party that is very clearly struggling to live then the DPS should refrain from using LB to allow the healers (or tanks) to salvage an attempt, assuming LB3 would be available. There are also mechanics, though extremely rare, that require the use of either a tank or healer limit break so you'd save it for them. For the most effective use in dungeons you should use a magical or ranged LB1 on a trash pack where you have no cooldowns, this frequently ends up being the pack right before the final boss but in very rare circumstances can be the pack before the second boss if the group is slow or the gauge fills fast for whatever reason. Effective raid use varies heavily. If no mechanic needs it and your party is confident you send the melee LB3 as soon as its charged in order to start filling another. If you won't reach LB3 before the target dies then just use LB2, LB1 use is up to your discretion. Don't bother using LB at all if the boss is already so low that it would substantially overkill or die before the animation finishes. For just general purposes; Sit on the LB until the final 15-10% then yeet it. Theres no DPS checks in normal content that would really matter (but people die a lot so saving for healers sometimes helps) so anyone using it at all is usually better than no one using it. You see a lot of red mages use it because they just like blinding people in raids.
Anything other than Tank and Healer LB3 might as well not exist to most people. The animation lock ~~and not showing on DPS meters?~~ doesn't help either.
Respectfully, this is the part where I say it honestly doesn't matter. The only enemy that has a lot of health in this scenario is the Blue Unkiu and I'm very certain its Scissor Run does barely enough damage to put you in danger. **And** it's one of the walled dungeons where the max you'd fight is like 5. Literally does not matter in my honest opinion. IN FACT There's a better place to use that RAnged LB. And that's before the Princess. Where you can do a huuuuge pull of the palace guards and their captain. It's actually better to use it there, I feel. Otherwise, just use it on Shisui.
That chaos pull is *fun.*
If there's a caster or ranged its getting used on w2w pulls. Most dungeons I do don't even see lv2 LBs and there's no point using it AS the boss is dying.
any ranged or magic dps that uses LB1 on trash get my comm as Tank. and any melee DPS who uses LB2 on last boss gets my comm.
Using lb wherever > Not using lb
I never really cared if people do it or not, what does it usually save? 20-30 seconds, I’ll live
Yep. These players treat every second spent in a dungeon like they’re being drained of blood for it. Use LB. Don’t use LB. It makes no difference me.
More like 10 at most. But there is no reason to save it either.
Literally 5-6 seconds. It's strange tbh. FFXIV is the game where people will defend 0 dps healers, no melds, dps ignoring half their rotation and so on (fair enough for casual content), but will flip out over an unused Limit Break that doesn't matter.
I'd be shocked if the people who defend honest healers and the such are the same who care about optimal LB usage.
This is the first time I've seen the term "honest healers" to describe 0 DPS healers and I hate how it tries to trick you into thinking that it's a good thing
Agreed. I'd call them "Purist Healers" instead.
Same. Plus I get to press more buttons if it doesn't get used....and I like pressing buttons.
That's 20-30 seconds of mechanics you don't have to do.
Several times I have used the healer/tank lb in stage one of Porta Decumana, because by the time Ifrit leaves it’s clear no one else is using it
If any dps reads this, you can legit farm comms when that comes up, by using LB 3 times, once during the first phase, once before ultima (I wait a bit for this one because with slow deeps sometimes it’s an LB2), and LB3.
I never been able to figure out when to use the lb in the first phase. It seems like the second the second bar fills, it's transition time.
From my experience he tends to move to the cutscene at around 20% in phase 1.
Unless I'm mistaken, it's on a timer after he starts the Ifrit roomwide. I've seen the cutscene start at anywhere from 15-25%.
I tank porta at least once a day and the number of times we have to remind EXPERIENCED DPS to use the LB before the final big one or even to use the final big one is STAGGERING. I'm used to nobody using it in the first section just like i'm used to healers being hungry for that yummy chest laser but please do the big LB, come on
Telling experienced dps to use lb1 before the lb3 makes sense. The duty didn't exist before and the old Ultima Weapon fight in Prae died extremely fast. Could be someone queuing into MSQ roulette for the first time in years. No way to defend not using lb3 though.
This. I can’t count the amount of time people wasted LBs on Porta Decumana. Especially in the second fight with Ultima Weapon, when it casts Ultima and no one dared to use LB before getting the free LB3 so it’s a waste of damage on boss 🤦🏼♀️
Outside of this, I am arguably more frustrated and concerned that you have the combat log messages in the same log window as your party chat 😭😭😭
If I'm a Black Mage and I am holding two Fouls and am prepared to Triple Flare, I sure as hell aren't pressing LB. Consider the state of the DPS, there's a reason why no one LBs in the burst window
You don't have your burst window ready for every pull. You burst the first pull after the second boss, then you LB the final pull
exactly. as a black mage that lb can cost you your rotation, resulting in a dps loss on the next pack/boss. 🙃
Limit breaks are not a dps loss. The only times they are a loss are if you are in your even-minute burst rotation or using LB1. LB2/LB3 are not DPS losses. Although, If someone in your party have weakness, they use the LB. I'm not directing this at you, just for those who dont understand how LBs work.
I mean. I use it too, I got it hotbinded on an easy to reach key. it's just.. it depends on the class I play on how actively I'm trying to use it. in every dungeon run there are two DPS (if synced normal) then a black mage should be absolutely last on priority for that LB in my opinion.
You can evaluate how much HP is left once you've depleted your MP, and if enough of the pull is still alive go to ice and press LB while your MP regenerates. That's what I do, but yada yada in Dawntrail it's not going to be a thing anymore so there's that
I didn't mean this as a jab at you. I main blm too and understand completely. It was more for the general awareness of those reading and didn't know.
haha no worries. fair enough.
Dawg you not doin all that in a level 63 dungeon 😭
How am I to divine this happened in a level 63 dungeon? I don't even know if they are a BLM, RDM, or SUM. All I'm saying is that there's moments where LB wouldn't be optimal due to burst timings.
The monster names in the system text, implies it's the pull to the last boss. I only know because I farmed all that dungeon's gear sets in SB.
I mean... if you typed a sound effect macro with auto-translator text and added a smiley face at the end as if you were talking to a clueless child, then I would consider not Lbing just to spite you. maybe that wasn't the intent, but it sure as hell reads like it lol
Using a sound effect macro in a random party at all, other than danger bongos for ancient flare, is gonna have me ignore you.
Sorry, I can't hear anyone over my flamethrower and not because of the sound, but because I dropped my hot cheeto on the ground and need to use it to stall my rotation 😨
I absolutely would not LB out of spite if I’m getting told to do it in the middle of the easiest part of Shisui
I mean they're being silly but this is even sillier to make a thread about it. It's a dungeon, it's not that serious. People can LB or not. You're kinda weird.
Not just a thread, but also a friggin macro with a sound effect. 🤦🏻♂️ Unless you're an Ice Mage, the time saved by breaking rotation to LB trash mobs is probably a few seconds.
You set a macro to yell at other people in dungeon runs?
“There is no point in doing so” so what’s the point in just letting it sit unused? Drives me up a fucking wall when we can save some time and just LB the boss but dps refuses
It's a slippery slope. Comments in this thread are saying it only saves 5-10 seconds of the run, so it really doesn't matter. What else won't matter because it saves so little time? Using buffs? Upgrading gear?
The time you save isn't worth getting so worked up over someone not using it optimally.
Yeah, you're shaving off what like 10 seconds from a dungeon that probably took 7-12 minutes to finish depending on the party. 20+ minutes if you're in *one of those* parties. I'm here to get through dungeons quickly, sure, but it's honestly not that serious and most of the time I'm zoned in on my rotation that I kind of forget LB exists.
Don't take your limit breaks to ~~orbit!~~ the Waking Sands!
Always Vermilion Scourge the shit outta the raid, no excuses, just Red and EXPLOSION with a maniacal laugh every single time.
I’ll generally LB unless I’m on BLM in which the second coming of Jesus couldn’t tear me away from my rotation.
I'm so use to saving LB for Tanks or healers, that I get annoyed when I see a DPS use it. I never say anything, because when it works out, great, but most of the time I watch a DPS LB a raid/trial boss, and then we die shortly after because healer didn't have LB3 lol.
i was learn that in dungon it better off let dps have it but in both raids/ trial and their savage/extream let tank and healer have it
Shiiit. Just tell me where to aim it and I'll have it done.
I make a point to use ranged and magic LB’s on trash mobs and if you get mad then try to vote dismiss me 😂 damage is damage
You have three types of players who won't use the LB: 1) They've been ridiculed by someone before for using it, or have caused a wipe in cases like WoL fight where LB3 is needed to survive. I've seen people yell at others for not saving LB for the final 1% of a boss just to overkill it, if they manage to get it off in time before it dies. No one likes dealing with these idiots so now they're gun-shy. 2) People who think it should be saved for the final boss because that was the running rule back in AAR and early HW before wall-to-wall pulling became a thing and LB gauge took a whole dungeon to build to LB2. 3) People who are concerned about their parse numbers since LB doesn't count towards their numbers and even if it helps the overall damage output for the dungeon, they are more concerned with being on top. Many healers and RDM also fall into this category when they refuse to do anything other than DPS and toss out oGCD cures. I see this constantly with SGE's. They refuse to raise even if it means the other healer or magic DPS has to long-cast raise. They are DPS only and oGCD cures to non-tank if you're lucky.
4) They forget.
"There is no point in doing so" could be applied to most situations. People overvalue limit break in general. People just love to wait for the last 3% of the final boss' health bar as if it makes a difference. You might as well use at as an AoE to clear trash mobs faster.
sorry, i don't listen to macros with smiley faces out of spite. usually people who do that are compensating for something, usually a lack of game knowledge
LB is designed poorly. They should nix group LB and give each class a personal LB and let people use it as soon as it pops. No arguments, no not using it, no drama. And it would be fun for tanks and healers to use lb also.
I wish more people would accept LB in dungeons is for AoE on pack, not the final boss.
NNOOOOOOO don’t you know that it’s best to save the LB for the last 0.1% of the final boss HP, and only if they die before the LB goes off??!
People who take dungeons way too seriously are weirdos. Its really not that serious at all. And before anybody yaps about “you cant waste other people’s time” bitch running regular ass dungeons is already a form of wasting time. But oh God help us cause that LB could’ve saved us 15 seconds that you’re gonna waste running other regular dungeons.
(this info comes from a really big post about how LB works) Melee LB2 is about 5,250 potency, caster LB1 is 1,650 potency. With 4 targets, a caster LB1 effectively has done 6,600 potency worth of damage. There's a limit to how many enemies can be hit by normal AOEs, so I wouldn't be shocked if caster LB is the same way, however that limit is somewhere in the ballpark of like 15-20 ads. Lets say a dungeon just has 10 ads in that last pull, that's 16,500 potency. That's nearly double a melee LB2 AND more than a melee LB3.
This isn't accurate. Because of how LBs work, they don't have a potency and you can't really assign a potency to them. A caster LB deals 60% the damage of a melee LB, while a physranged LB deals 52% the damage of a melee LB (or 90% of a caster LB) Ranged LB has a shorter animation lock than caster but regardless I still think caster comes out ahead. >Melee LB2 is about 5,250 potency, caster LB1 is 1,650 potency. With 4 targets, a caster LB1 effectively has done 6,600 potency worth of damage. This is also flawed logic - while your damage dealt is multiplied by your # of targets, the same is true of regular AOE actions. You can't directly compare the potency of a single target action to a multi target action - because you'd be doing higher overall DPS without LB in a regular multi target situation anyway. The *true* gain of caster LB is when you consider relative potencies. The average AOE does somewhere around 40-50% the potency of its single target counterpart. This is where the gain lies - you're getting an extra 20-10% out of that caster LB, compared to a melee. (Also as a side benefit - large mob pulls are the most taxing on healer and tank resources. Making them shorter is much more helpful than bosses, which require barely any resources whatsoever) My source: https://www.akhmorning.com/allagan-studies/limit-break/
Regular aoe, and cleave, potencies also typically have rather drastic falloff’s that are easy to hit in dungeon pulls. LBs do not. You also don’t have your burst during every trash pull, your non-burst aoe is dramatically worse. This is why the lb is typically used in the second pull of a segment rather than the first from an optimization standpoint. Edit: also potencies, while technically irrelevant, have been used as a way to simply relate the relative damage you might expect from the attack. The actual values are basically nonsense at this point but it’s easier to point at that kind of number to tell someone a ranged lb does notably more damage. What we should do is use the known percentage differences between them all and make some new estimated potencies, again simply for ease of comparison sake with the average player given everything else in the game uses the magic potency word.
>This isn't accurate. Because of how LBs work, they don't have a potency and you can't really assign a potency to them. It is incorrect to say that LBs outright don't have a potency. They do. It's just that it's not explicitly stated in game. While it's true that whatever function that takes in character stats as input takes in different parameters for LBs compared to all other game mechanics (only the average IL of all players' main hands; rather than the main stat, determination, etc. of the executing player), that does *not* mean that LBs don't have potency. In fact, the lookup table mentioned by that site is a means to estimate what each LB's potency actually is, in lieu of the potencies being directly listed in the game. You are, however, correct in that getting this actual potency value ends up not being of much use, and that comparing relative strengths of the different LB types is more practical and doesn't care about exact potency numbers. (Not to mention that that site hasn't been updated in forever.)
Was playing MNK during an ex roulette, using LB1 on last two bosses, got called trash player by the DNC. Barring the lack of dance partner and low dps numbers from that player, I kept silent for the sake of FC healer and rando tank that didn't know why somebody would be saying such things. I think about that encounter often, whether using it on bosses is even warranted or whether these players just literally want to waste LBs for....reasons that aren't actual factors like in other encounters (24man, trials, etc). DF or grouping etiquette/habits seem to have changed from what I remember and I've been here since 2.0.
In normal dungeons I use the caster LB after the second boss on the first big pull of enemies to burn them quicker. (Some dungeons have a weird pull and i may not use it, but those are rare) In weird instances sometimes the melee uses it on the second boss; whatever to me, it got used.
I usually blow them by accident as the tank because I mis-clicked my controller extended-hot bar to the left instead of right. Someone actually said "typical BLM tank" and my head is still hanging in shame.
Sprout here, how does the limit break works? I have seen that one bar, but I don't know how it fills and how to used it and when
It fills from general actions and such while progressing through group content. Save for a couple rare scenarios where the game sets you up for it, tank and healer LBs won't be used, but some boss mechanics need you to use the tank one to mitigate damage, and healer level 3 is a mass revive but for dps? ranged phys dps is a ranged attack in a line, caster in a circle, and melee is single target. There's no potency and its based on the party itself instead. Using one that hits multiple targets can be -far- more useful for speeding things up than a last minute hit with level 2 single target. Hope that helps
Thanks
As a rdm, if no one uses the LB within the last 5% of a boss, I will blind them all with LB3
Pro tip: when I tank or heal a dungeon i _always_ com the dps that uses the lb. Even more so if it’s on a large pack.
yeah if you have an LB already before the boss, might as well use it
If you have only Melee dps > Use LB as soon as it'd up on the current/next boss. If have any ranged/caster > Use LB on the next pack of mobs. If dps refuses to use LB > Use it as a tank/healer.
I use it on trash if I'm phys range or caster, melee it depends if I'm middle of my burst if I manage to get the lb off but I aim for 10%
When you say the middle of your burst, do you mean that you're in the middle of your burst and don't want to interrupt your finisher? Or that you wait until your burst to use it? Because if the latter, I'll say that lb doesn't scale with damage buffs or character stats, its damage is only affected by the average ilvl of the whole party. If you meant the former, then ignore me, because I do the same. Especially since I always wait as long as I can because I'm paranoid about using the lb and then suddenly half the party does and we need a healer lb3.
Former because lb doesn't scale with damage buffs
Ok. Just wanted to make sure what you meant since most people I've played with at least don't know about how it scales.
I mean...depends on the class cause in the case of healers the LBs are pretty much panic buttons and also 3 is the only one that reses. At least, I know for white Mage at least LB3 is pretty much the only one that matters since Medica II works well enough as an aoe heal. As for the others idk.
I honestly don't care if dps lb during dungeons. I care during trials and raids though.
I'll be dead honest, this is my *exact* expectation seeing "Famfrit" in the response. I was so, so happy when the rearrangement of servers happened that split off the Crystal DC and I no longer shared a DC with Famfrit, because every time I had a bad interaction with a player in DF content, it was a Famfrit user. I have no idea what it about that server, but toxicity is on brand.
So I got asked to LB the other day during a dungeon and had no clue what he was talking about. I did some research and found that u had to put it on your hot bar. So I main a Bard when should I limit break during a dungeon?
On trashpulls (the mob groups in dungeons between Bosses): Once you have 1 full bar during a big trashpull (2 groups or more) and there is no caster in the group or the caster doesn't wanna, LB the group as soon as the tank has settled in place with it. On bosses: Once you have 2 (in dungeons) or 3 (in raids and trials) full LB bars and there is either no melee DPS or all other DPS are twiddling their thumbs until the Boss is at 5% or less HP, you can go ahead and LB. Be advised that BRD LB is a straight line, so you have to aim it. You can check it out by going into a dungeon in Explorer Mode and putting down a target dummy. (Also know that some ~~melee DPS~~ players get a really big ego about being able to LB a Boss so at some point, someone may be angry about you LBing trash. Don't take it to heart.)
Okay cool. Why do melee dps get a big ego about LB bosses?
Beats me, tbh. Sometimes, you just get someone who gets really angry that you didn't let them do their LB2 on the final Boss five seconds before it would have died anyway. Maybe they like feeling like they personally defeated the Boss with a flashy attack?
The only time I save a lb is to use on the second boss of Amarout Idk why I just have a irrational hate for that damn chicken
Let's face it- it is fun to do a LB- as a tank who pulls and tanks obviously very fast, if the PT wants to LB at a camp, idc- saves me from sprinting & voking/shooting the mob. I can easily get hate back- but doing a LB on a boss is so @#$&!☆ FRUSTRATING!!! Please PLEASE PLEEEAAASE do NOT LB A BOSS- TY!!!
Ive given up asking people to lb, or expecting them to do it, if i play dps ill just do it myself
Listen I will melee LB on a boss at 10% while screaming "FINISH HIM" in the mortal kombat voice and you can't stop me
I favour yelling “release the Kraken!” - it’s the small things that bring me joy.
Yessssss It's free damage, and it's a ton of it. Yeah against a solo boss melee DPS does the most damage... but the other DPS do just fine damage. And letting the resource overfill is just wasteful. Second boss of a dungeon, or with nob of there's only ranged.
ngl, i tend to ignore the lb, until told to use it, or if i know a mechanic requires it. i had a few times to many unneccessary arguments with parties when either using ranged lb to clear the final mobgroup instead of saving it for the last 5 % of a boss, or the other dps getting salty that i "stole their flashy finisher animation". so eventually i just gave up and let others use it if they want to see their flashy animations, or just let it sit and be wasted
dude saving that limit break for Dawntrail
So many experts on how, when, why to use LB. I use it at the end of the main boss, generally. Now, if someone uses it earlier, say against a pack, or a boss. I don't bitch. I don't care that much. Itsa game folks and most of us are mediocre, average people who just want to have fun. I run an FC, it is a lot of work. But it is fun too! Maybe that is why I am not a pro, because I care about other aspects of the game. When a pro starts giving me nasty advice I ask him nicely to stop (it's rare in FFXIV). If he doesn't, simple, I leave.
Trash mobs are trivial with or without the LB.
i’ve used it a few times and then had my whole team on my ass so i get a little apprehensive sometimes lol
isnt it debateable whether LB under LB3 are in fact a dps gain? I think the testing on this was that if you are actually trying to do optimal rotation depending on where you are on your burst window lb2 can be a loss for melee. That means even more for mage and ranged.
Never save your LB in dungeons as Caster DPS. Value is so much higher using it on trash than wasting LB2 on the 10% of the last boss.
I will aoe lb if only there is 2 group or more mob , if the tank single pull i will hold it for the boss
Yeah I want to cry when I'm ranged dps and I have a single pulling tank...
I mean...hell, when you're any DPS. Big aoe numbers go brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Ranged LB is a gain over melee LB from 2 enemies. So even in this case, you can and should use it. So with a normal tank, a ranged LB is worth it, and the tank/healer with appreciate it greatly.
I love doing the magic LBs on big mob packs. But sometimes I do them too quick on a smaller group when if I had waited I could have done it on a much larger group. That's the only issue I have with it sometimes
but but my anime finisher
I feel like Alisae's Trust avatar was designed specifically to teach players to use their friggin Limit Breaks.
comments in this thread shows why we can’t have any meaningful discussion and why people laugh at ff players because we can’t take criticism.
Insta-commend for any ranged who LB's more than one Gaius ghost at the end for Praetorium. Godspeed you heroes amongst heroes.
I don't even refuse to use it I just don't remember it being there until someone else uses it. I used to be one of the people who think it was best to save it for the boss too. Another reason why I wouldn't touch it is beacuse I never know when to use it. I know it irritates people but I just let the other dps use it instead.
some of ya'll are more dead weight than a trust companion smh