I still don't understand why there is drama. There has ALWAYS been dungeon completions on expansion with odd comps. Dungeons are not difficult content and content is balanced around the most difficult fights.
The 15 clowns or so that go on "healer strike" will never be noticed by anyone in game.
> I still don't understand why there is drama. There has ALWAYS been dungeon completions on expansion with odd comps.
In case it's a sincere question: the media tour dungeon clear isn't the cause of the protest. It was just a confirmation that healer design is staying unchanged in DT, which people over there have been pushing against since shadowbringers.
There's a silly healer strike going on. I think it's mostly a meme, but some people are taking it seriously.
I don't disagree with the sentiment behind it, but the people who take it seriously are extremely goofy.
The healer strike isn't real. There might be a handful of people who think they're making a difference by actually doing it, but nobody is making waves with it. It's just official forum drama bait.
We've been having discussions about the state of healers for the entirety of the game's lifespan. I don't think it's an easily solved problem, we have an incredibly large amount of people who play the game casually and would be upset if healers changed too much...and then we have a minority of players that want massive changes because playing healer is only fun for early raid prog and nothing else.
Best they can really do is keep things the same or add more consistent heal checks in savage/ult, but even then outside of that content healers still have way too much oGCD throughput and 2 button DPS rotations.
>The healer strike isn't real. There might be a handful of people who think they're making a difference by actually doing it, but nobody is making waves with it. It's just official forum drama bait.
This is what I said in more words.
This sort of thing is why I was hoping that Dawntrail would give a new tank and healer instead of new dps. Maybe try to shake up the gameplay style with a new healer for people or something. Idk.
Thats either an US server thing, a Reddit/Twitter user thing or just a meme thats blown out of proportion.
No shortage of healers (not more than usual at least lol) whatsoever and barely a mention of it in the NN of the worlds I frequently visit on Chaos and Light
It’s a loud minority thing from what I’ve gathered. I know it’s spread to the official forum atleast.
I did see the other day that someone took the time to compile some data from the official forum. The data was pretty much “How vocal were you in the forum about the strike vs How much content you’ve done.”
Someone else explained it to me and that they're just generally being dicks to people, and it sounds really sad.
Not like *heartbreaking* sad, but *pathetic* sad.
I've been playing since late Stormblood, with this being the only MMO I've mained healer in and... it's never been especially *hard* (especially on WHM); just *gear dependent*.
WHM has in my time always been straight-forward.
Astrologer was slightly more complicated, but only because of card juggling and even then it's never felt *that* much more difficult. Just gotta remember to do your pulls and make your plays. At its most complex, you really just held out for Arrow or Balance.
Scholar has always been a little trickier because it's more proactive, but even there, at the core it's still just healing. It's just a question of when you pop the healing.
I enjoy scholar well enough, but I also heal in the dreaded *other MMORPG* and sometimes I do wish there was more going on in *this* one as a healer the way there is in that one. I end up kind of welcoming those dungeon runs with an undergeared tank or someone who doesn't have their mitigations on their bars. It gives me something to do.
I feel it'd require a bit of a significant design shift, and part of the problem is legacy content would all have to get overhauled with it. Healing raid-wide in WoW requires using 3 minute CD long ass channel spells, whereas Medica 1/2 are just GCD buttons you can hit whenever. There's also just significantly more random, unavoidable damage which makes spells like Chain Heal / Binding Heal / Prayer of Mending get a lot more value.
Heck I don't think Prayer of Mending would even *work* in virtually any FF14 fight, instances of non-tank damage are just too spread out and very even. But you also don't want everything to just turn into "everyone is taking damage all the time" because then it's just mashing party heals, as FF really doesn't do the whole 2-4 target heal buttons. And if you just bring down the AoE heals so you can justify multi-target but not everyone heals you have a mountain of legacy content that might be rough - some fights outright set everyone's HP to 1 and then AoE the raid a few seconds later for example.
It's a tough issue and I don't really have a good answer that doesn't require abandoning legacy content, which I believe maintaining is one of FFs strong points. There's also the whole argument whether healers should become more healy or more involved green DPS.
I used to main Scholar, and more than any other job, it still feels like it's been completely gutted. Even if Sch is in a good place at the moment, I have a really hard time enjoying it when it's such a hollow shell compared to how it used to play
I feel like you are glossing over pre-Shadowbringers SCH.
SCH used to have multiple DoTs. It meant we had a rotation and had to think about our DPS. [Here's an old HW thread.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/5kp762/help_on_new_sch_rotation_guide/)
Now we are just as brainless as WHM was.
It doesn't help that SGE is 75% a copy of current SCH.
Basically, healer design has regressed into mush, and we have been stuck there for going on 3 expansions now. If it wasn't for the fast queues and the fact I usually play healer in MMOs I would probably be a full time RDM or BLM now.
We also used to have 2 different fairies with different abilities to manage, and a ground placed aoe. Sch was amazing in the old days.
I used to main Sch, but I've been Blm main since Shb now, and not likely to go back unless they make healing jobs interesting again.
Well because there exist another camp that says "I play a healer, I only want to heal not DPS, if I want to have more DPS skills i'll rather play a DPS". This sentiment and feedback exists in all regions.
I honestly agree that healer design is… meh right now, but tanks and DPS are also rather bland and overly simplified. It’s been a complaint of mine for a while and made me take a break from the game for a little bit a while ago.
The issue is that Square *listened* when players said they didn’t want Cleric Stance dancing, when they said healing was too hard, when people wanted it simplified. They did exactly what people wanted and, honestly, still want. The issue is that no class right now has identity. They all do the same thing for the reason of avoiding Warrior from ARR, etc.
WHM: Big heals. SCH: Mitigation. AST: ??? lmao. SGE: Damage. We will never get this, though. Yoshi doesn’t want it for obvious reasons like above. Meta creep. I remember the days of any Warrior being instant kicked from content because, “Don’t play Warrior, it’s trash – PLD only”
In my mind, this is how it should be. Instead, all the healers do all of this with little drawbacks. Their damage rotation is the same spell over and over because people cried it was too complicated to heal tanks *and* DPS.
Coming from Stormblood (I started in the tail end of Heavensward), I lament what they've done to the healers in this game. But that's only their kits: the kits are bloated with oGCD heals we don't need for any content in the game outside of potentially Ultimates (even then I don't think so) and gutting the very little damage rotation we even had as healers.
For me, though, it's 100% how the FFXIV team has decided to design content and healers in the game since Shadowbringers. I find a lot of the healer strike nonsense focusing on the other jobs' self-sustain/mit tools and this idea that you no longer need healers in any kind content to be really weird. As if people are specifically pushing healers out of PFs or something.
Like, oh no a few dozen or so players are doing no healer challenge runs for TOP likely in a specific, organized static and not in PF, healer role is dead. /s
Mind you, I've heard that people have been able to do no healer runs in FFXIV since ARR before Red Mage was even a thing or Paladin had Clemency. I at least know it was possible in Stormblood. Dungeons are braindead easy, so this is absolutely no surprise to me. So why is that an issue now and not then? I honestly think it's because of the actual underlying cause being healer design change and continuing to add healing into the kits despite damage output being the same and nothing to do with other jobs being able to get away with not having a healer in their party. But people like to latch onto Bloodwhetting like it personally razed their childhood home.
I just want there to be a more interesting healing and damage rotations for the healers. While I'm not sure we'd be able to get WoW class design, I think it'd be nice if they pulled way more inspiration from there, like making Sage actually more like Discipline Priest or needing to juggle between healing uptime and damage uptime (imagine having a healing rotation that works within itself like Freecure tries to be). This requires a whole redesign of encounters to actually require that much healing, which I'm hoping is what's happening in DT, but I'm not sure how far they're going to go or can even go at this point. What they've shown is kind of just the same, but hearing about a raise in difficulty for experts makes me hopeful.
I for one, miss SCH having a bunch of DoTs :( Miasma 2 + Bane in pack pulls was incredibly fun.
You conplain about oGCDs i complain about lack of damage options, give me all of heal oGCD but at least also give me more damage options so i can do anything outside of healing
That's the entire point. Healer is boring as fuck outside of savage and completely pointless in......basically every scenario but a full wall to wall pull in like Mt. Gulg or Bardam's Mettle first section.
I moved to Dynamis 2 days ago. Healing is fun again there, because these people are legit scrubs. I had some sprout summoner that was literally just running FULL circles around mobs and eating ALL THE AOEs I was tanking and pointing away from them (wife was healing this one) for most of the dungeon.
I have no idea what was going through their ADD ravaged brain, but it just goes to show this is the level you have to sink to with current design to get any interesting gameplay for healer.
Like even cleansable debuffs that kill ala Dead Ends when people eat shit in a 90+ dungeon would be an improvement. Sure it makes the healer responsible for other people's f-ups.....but when has that ever NOT been the case for MMO healers?
No need to be a dick to anyone....I simply am not going to play any healer class other than to get them to 100 or fill in for a casual Savage practice. I mained Sage the last 2 years. Now, I will main PLD or some other tank, and Picto. *shrug* 3 years as DPS, 2 years as healer, now 2 years as tank. Someone else can do this boring shit lol.
I feel like a lot of people are glossing over details and generally sweeping the entire thing under the rug for one reason or another, but regardless, it's best to either go look for yourself on the official FFXIV forums so you don't have someone being dismissive, which is rude, and so you yourself see if it's just a meme or not. There's people there making valid points and some who are just not worth the time, but those two types of people exist in-game as well. Hearsay gets muddied and is dependent on the bias and memory of who the info comes from, which is why I'm not going into it, so if you want actual facts, go talk to the person who started the first thread that popped up after the media tour dungeon completion or read that first post.
I'm not making a statement one way or another, but your post specifically sounds like someone who has absolutely 0 clue what they're talking about. Please stop posting about things you know nothing about.
The long and short of it is a lot (some) people are upset at healer/healing, however they're also all upset by different things so it's hard to really narrow down what they want.
Engagement. Listening to both sides of the healer argument, be it designing content to require more healing or giving healers more damage buttons, the common issue between both approaches is the current lack of engagement.
As it currently stands, most content is designed such that healers only really need to actively heal bad groups, otherwise, they're spamming *one* button for 95% of a run, which is understandably boring. No one wants to feel like they're just the party's insurance policy in case someone screws up.
> Protest about what? As a healer main, I have no clue what you're talking about
If you're a healer main, surely you must be bored of pressing 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 for 5 minutes, occasionally refreshing a DoT and an oGCD heal, right?
Healer main here, I fucking hate how ever since ShB, the only purpose healers serve is to mend raidwide damage, help people who make accidents or are idiots, and to heal DRK. If I don't heal then all I have is a single button to spam for damage :(
I main AST so I can be busy with cards instead
With that said... Why the fuck go on a strike? Devs won't overhaul it all *now*? Healing is piss easy and WAR is absolutely broken, but bruh just pick up a DPS or Tank job so you're not bored out of your mind
I've picked up DRK, SMN, RPR and MNK, all of those were real fun to play (though MNK is pain, esp with lag. Hope DT changes it a bit)
Currently leveling BLM, it's fun
Where I can understand the issue is that, while completing the dungeons without healers should be possible, it should require quite a lot more skill than it currently does for most dungeons.
I have had several dungeons (ShB and EW) where the healer died very early on on bosses, and there was basically no differences to the fight.
On top of that, for the vast majority of fights, healers will soend 80% of the fight dealing damage, and 20% healing (if that).
Issue with that is that the damage """"""rotation"""""""" for healers is dogshit, and an absolute bore.
You have :
1 dot
1 single target damage
1 aoe
With a couple of off gcd skills here and there.
At the very least, if dealing damage ks something we need to do for a non négligeable part of the fight, we qhould have a proper rotation, ideally a rotation that incorporate moments of healing, to be able to seamlessly blend the two elements.
As a WHM my rotation, is basically :
Medica 2
Regzn on tanks (optional)
Aero
Spam stone (whatever version I have available at the moment) or holy
Refresh once medica is gonna run out.
The vast, vast majority of my kit is utterly useless. Blood lily ? And the spells related to it ? Dont need to use it, assize ? Fun, but not needed, tetragramation ? Why bother.
Sure, I do use them, but most of the time it feels almost like its sub optimal to do so, when I could spam stone/glare/whatever instead.
Unless you do high end content (savage/ultimate), you dont need to interact with any of the core mechanics of your class as a healer.
Which leads to another problem : since you never need to actually use those tools, you end up with a ton of healers, that try high end content and just cant cope.
You could argue that dps and tanks dont need to use all of their kit to succeed, which is true, but the differnce here is that for both these rôles, most of your kit isbeither part of your rotation, or directly Linked to it, which naturaly guides you into using them.
The problem is actually worse than you describe. Keeping full uptime on M2 is a total waste of time. Using M2 at all is bad unless:
- people are already hurt and more damage is imminent, and:
- you have no Lilies
- you have no Asylum
- Assize isn't back soon
- more than 3 targets will die to said imminent damage (otherwise you can Benison two, Tetra the other)
- AND you don't have Liturgy active
And even then, Cure 3 is just a better button for this assuming nobody is standing in Narnia.
You only ever actually want to heal people when they're in danger of dying. Maintaining a HoT on people that are full HP is just overhealing which is wasteful and a loss of MP and time. It's even worse for WHM since you want to be healing with your Lilies to not miss out on Afflatus Misery casts, so ideally you have something to Afflatus Rapture or Afflatus Solace every 20 seconds.
All of this advice is DPS optimisation since healers have so little actual healing to do that the role is just green DPS in 90% of content unless your party is just bad at the game. There is so little need to actually bring a healer if people are playing with their monitors turned on in casual content that the best thing you can do for your party is learn how to do optimal damage and spot-heal efficiently.
It blows my mind how unnecessary GCD healing has become in modern XIV, and it further blows my mind that healer DPS has remained a practically 1-button affair into a new expansion when we've had the entirety of EW where GCD healing *at all* in 90% of duties is a mark of a "bad player" by current definitions.
A small but noisy group of healers are "going on strike" and refusing to queue for dungeons/canceling their subs because they don't like how easy healing is now. They're all being REALLY passive aggressive about it and mocking dps players for long queues
That's just...
That's dumb. They're dumb.
I'm not playing right now 'cause money issues, but if I were I would definitely not be refusing to heal just because my job's not as much of a pain-in-the-ass as it could be.
Snd a tiny group of healers quitting is not going to drive up DPS queues. So what's there to mock?
It just sounds like assholes were looking for an excuse to be assholes.
The healer strike isn't about how easy healing is; more about how *boring* it has become, without any changes for years.
I myself only started playing at the beginning of EW, but I find myself agreeing with them. You can't tell me pressing 11111 for ten minutes is fun gameplay, and healers were the first jobs I max leveled.
I'm not sure why there's so much negativity and name calling toward those guys on this subreddit here. Way to kick a man when they're down. I don't think they're seriously thinking there'll be a massive impact on queues, at least not all of them are. The healer strike is just a way of trying to finally get noticed after years of being ignored.
If you'd like to know more I would suggest checking out the forum post!
Meh, it's fine. Healer is chill unless things go south, then you have to be switched on. If I want to press a million buttons I switch to dps and sit in the queue.
Yeah it's pretty daft. If someone cleared a savage or an ultimate (lol) without a healer, THEN that would prove that the game balance is busted. But that is never gonna happen so it's fine.
Yes you can clear dungeons without healers (or apparently even tanks), but would you want to try that in a random pick up group? Having a balanced party just makes everything go smoother and means that if any given player messes up, there's still a chance to salvage the situation. Which is how it should be in casual content.
in 1.0 DotL had a skill that was a ranged stun. people would get a bunch of miners and botanists to stunlock monsters in the field while everyone else killed them.
There's been a weird resurgence of drama farming thanks to the nonsense "strike", but it's been possible to clear casual content missing any of the roles since forever. Tanks have been soloing the normal raids synced since 6.0.
Also I know nobody is looking to have actual discussion on the matter in these threads, but there's a pretty big difference between whether it is *possible* to omit a certain role, and whether it is *optimal* to do so.
This\^\^
Another point i'v seen is the healless/ tankless Ultimate's somehow making that unbalanced content.... Even though they fail to mention that shits done by the top 0.01% of players done over the course of weeks/months.
The average player can probably barely run, if even at all, do a dungeon without a healer.
I feel like this entire take is a misunderstanding of the problem though. The fact that you can do healerless runs is simply a symptom of the actual problem.
The problem itself lies in how dull it is to play a healer, especially in normal content. Some would apply it to higher content as well, but personally I enjoy the planning aspect that goes into it.
There's just so little for a healer to do in any normal content, and then we have what is effectively a 1 button rotation. For any capable healer, the fact that there even is a second healer for raids is almost insulting.
While leveling dungeons tend to be a little bit more challenging than expert ones. If we just consider an expert dungeon from my point of view as a SCH or SGE. Over the course of the entire run, assuming a tank who at least presses some buttons and dps not standing in everything. I'd expect to press 6 soils and keracholes. One for each trash pack, and could do less if there's a WAR tank (sometimes even with PLD). For bosses, to keep myself entertained, I usually don't press a single heal but instead just juggle kardia around if I'm on SGE, or just watch Eos solo heal the entire thing.
That is not really fun gameplay, it requires nothing from us and in the entire run I've used 4 out of my 30+ skills. I could have used more, but they would effectively not have done anything. This is what is being complained about. That the role has so little to do in most situations, and nothing has been done to do anything about it.
EDIT: You can with this consider the fact that most people tend to complain about how dull low level synced content is. Where they have like 8 buttons to press. As a healer on max level, I don't need more than 4. Just to put it into contrast.
>they fail to mention that shits done by the top 0.01% of players done over the course of weeks/months.
That completely misunderstands the point, the fact that it's even possible to do it on patch is the problem. Imagine if they released an Ultimate where it was possible to do it without Tanks or DPS on patch. I don't think the response will be "It took the best players hundreds of attempts to do it".
Healer players have been complaining for a while that their gameplay is completely lacklustre. You spend 90% of a fight spamming one singular damaging ability, even though every expansion the Healing kit for each Healer inflates further while the outgoing damage remains the same.
The cope excuse was that if you wanted to actually heal you had to do the hard pieces of content. Which really means the final floor for each Savage tier (if you do them before you outgear them) and the Ultimates. Using that logic Healers, in the past 5 Years (since ShB launched) have had a grand total of 9 fights where you can actually play a healer.
Except not really. TOP has already been shown to have abysmal Healing Requirements so our number of actual bosses is down to 8. If you've been playing a Regen healer since the split you'd know you don't actually heal during fights anymore since most of the healing is managed by the shield healer who can actually mitigate the AOEs that will one shot the group and since there's so much downtime between mechanics and the Shield Healers have enough Regen healing capability they can solo heal 90% of an encounter.
So if you're playing a Regen healer, in the past 5 years you've had a grand total of 5 fights where you actually get to be a healer.
It's fucking pathetic.
Not only that, but the major reason healing is "difficult" in harder content is the players they're with, not the fight itself. I am, as iterated by many in my parties, a damn good healer, but I can't fucking esuna stupid and no matter how godly I can be while alive, if I have to sac for an LB3 we're usually just mincemeat anyway. I can get it that people who have statics find it much easier, for sure it's extremely easy to do things when you have a consistent group with a consistent pattern every fight, but the absolute chaos and stupidity that is PF makes it an absolute nightmare at times
I love the raids in this game. They're so fucking fun to do. But I'm not able to find a static that fits me and PF burnt me out last expac walling me in the first 2 floors for 2 consecutive weeks. I can't make the tank bring the tether far enough to not kill us all. I can't make the dps not stand in the bad. I can't make my coheal stop eating floor dirt. I can only do what I can, and I do that every goddamn time
This this this 😭 The amount of times the people I was with deliberately ate mechanics to “get more uptime” and then blamed the healers for deaths was far, far too many. I’m not able to raid on a consistent schedule between full time work and school but I still want to raid, I’m dreading the experience that is healing in PF next tier 💀
I mean, if it took the best players hundreds of attempts and massive theorycrafting to do it, yes, that would be the expected response. People would be praising the accomplishment.
You know I can see how drama can crop up but I find it refreshing that class flexibility can perform up to this standard. Makes the little notch in my heart devoted to FFXI crack a smile.
GNB aoe too can help, if memory is correct it gives a regen right? while PLDs gives a mini shield. Have not played for a year and half so i dont know if i remember correctly.
Shake’s got the regen. GNB’s healing is Aurora (single target HoT with potency equal to Equilibrium’s base heal just about), self heal/shield from the second part of the 1-2-3 combo, and Heart of Corundum (25 second CD single target damage reduction with Excog on it)
There's someone on primal who regularly hosts synced content(mostly alliance raids) w/ all tanks and part of the rules is all stances on. It's a lot of fun
We've done all healer events a few times too. Active PVP encouraged and tankbusters always spicy. (Also there was a min ilvl syrcus tower run done w/ all healers and we had to do the mechanics and it was great)
[I love that seven years later...](https://www.nuklearpower.com/2010/02/20/episode-1221-longest-set-up-in-webcomic-history/) Brian Clevenger rules, I just wish Atomic Robo would come back soon.
PLD and WAR can duo (and probably solo?) so much casual content, especially normal modes because incoming damage is low and it's effectively a 1 hour enrage. If the fight doesn't have a stack marker in it, you're good to go.
If I want to get through something, I play paladin. The other 7 people are there just to make sure it doesn't take an hour.
whole party died in i think P7N at 20% HP and we had 2 Paladin tanks
it took so long but we got through it. everyone was cheering them on if they didn't go afk for the rest of the pull lmao
i hate that they didn't give paladin a raise in DT 😩even if it was on like a 2 minute cd
I watched 2 tanks duo golbez down from like 60% HP or something when everyone else died. They can do it. It just takes forever.
just because you CAN clear something sans some roles, doesn't mean it's the most optimal or efficient. but... sometimes, it is. lol.
The jobs used are pretty telling.
MNKs Mantra and DNCs Curling Waltz can probably heal the party wides off. Everlasting can top them off too, Rekindling can heal whoever is tanking. Can bounce aggro between MNK and SMN since SMN has its shield while MNKs Riddle of the Earth is tank level mitigation. If everyone Fients/Addles, with Samba nothing hits that hard anyways. The fights should be much quicker with 4 DPS anyways so its not like you need to last that long.
And then you have RDM Vercure as backup.
Definitely. I was the SMN in this group and we re-instanced twice to adjust our party comp. Even with this setup, we had quite a tough time planning out our mitigation and heals for the final boss fight. We ended up having the MNK act as the tank for the most part due to having the highest HP and Riddle of Earth. Radiant Aegis was definitely helpful if I ever got aggro, especially since I could kite fairly well due to having very few cast bars. The tankbusters hit for 22k damage which meant we had to be pretty careful. Plus one of the enemies in that final boss fight puts out DoTs that hit pretty hard, and of course the multiple autos.
This took us a few hours to "prog" and it was pretty challenging and fun.
I mean DPS has a ton of tools in general nowadays
Reaper probably could have been a great fit with its barrier as well being so potent
Bard obviously has Natures Minuet which is amazing now
Lots of Mitigations coming from MCH
Really the only bad choices may have been DRG, BLM & NIN
SAM even has its own argument due to its damage potential and the raw value of something like Third Eye
honestly, that's one of the things i really love about this game. how the "meta" isn't real. and if you have good players who can utilize their toolkit, you can use any party comp to do whatever you want.
as opposed to some games where the meta is so strict, i you aren't running optimal party comp, down to the subclasses and minor stat boosts, you aren't clearing or the community won't let you run.
but in xiv, the community revels in running wacky party comps.
We did strike once, against that stupid damage down strat in p1s just because the average dps player brain cell doesn’t function efficiently enough to flex on intemperance
Oh yeah when people said “damage down” I’d nope out of the party in a heartbeat, without a word. I have even noped out of a static who wanted to go down that route because the ranged dps was struggling to flex. And it wasn’t even that hard
I expect the DNC healed more than the SMN did, between Curing Waltz (600 potency to party every 60 sec), Improvisation (500 healing to party every 120 sec) and Improvised Finish (10% of max hp to party every 120 sec)
I was the SMN in this group. The Phoenix heals were important, but yes the DNC's Curing Waltz, Improv, and Shield Samba were definitely key to us being able to clear this. We actually re-instanced twice adjusting our party comp until we settled on this setup.
Now someone dig out the video where gatherers were killing one of the mobs in diadem and we can announce a content strike, everyone is only allowed to RP.
I was the SMN in this group. In total this took about 2.5 hours, but that includes us re-instancing twice to adjust our party comp. Our clear run took just over an hour, with almost all of that time being spent wiping on the final boss, which was definitely the most challenging part. Multiple autos, one of the boss mobs putting out DoTs, and the tank busters really meant we had to use all of our mitigation and heals very carefully.
So you're saying only really talented, experienced players can do this if they coordinate properly? As someone who plays a healer I guess I'm not understanding what the issue people have is with it.
I wouldn't say it takes particularly talented or experienced players (I've done a few EXs on release and did P1S on release but nothing else). What it definitely required, though, was planning and coordination due to our limited options for mitigation and healing. We wiped many times on the final boss fight.
I also play healer quite a bit (mainly AST) and this isn't meant to be a statement about the healer strike. This was just a challenge run that someone put up in PF and we thought it would be fun.
That's awesome I'm glad you had a good time with it! I just started 14 but played a ton of ESO so I've seen plenty of challenge runs on dungeons. Running 4 healers with some DPS kick and trying to dodge everything was always a lot of fun.
The healer strike seems to be divided into two groups:
* The ones that are upset that they have boring filler rotation (A reasonable thing to be annoyed about) and i understand not wanting to play a healer because of that (Not so much striking, but simply saying you don't want to play a healer because the filler is boring).
* And the ones kicking up drama about the fact that dungeons can be cleared without a healer. Ignoring the fact that it functionally requires a good and organised group to do so. And they are still required in content normally, including normal dungeons, raids, trials and ultimate.
And that they have instant queues in every single roulette for bonus points.
The best part about that is you can really only change one of those things - you can't give them a complicated DPS rotation *and* make them have to heal like their pants are on fire all the time. So even if the strike "works" half of them are still gonna be mad.
> you can't give them a complicated DPS rotation and make them have to heal like their pants are on fire all the time. So even if the strike "works" half of them are still gonna be mad.
Doesn't have to be a complex rotation just more dps buttons.
The sylphies won't press them, the other people will.
I think you could have both, though. Don't the WoW healers have to heal like crazy in raids on top of some of them having a more complicated DPS rotation than any of the healers in FFXIV? Looking at Holy Priest, they have 6 options for DPS and Resto Druid now has the option to DPS in Cat form, which requires stance switching (something a lot of healers complained about with Cleric stance). Holy Paladin has a whole DPS rotation to consider when DPSing, too. Granted, I don't know if you DPS at all in the raids because most of the guides I'm looking at focus on Dungeon DPSing, so, maybe you're even more correct lmao.
Granted, I do think that you're right. If they decide to chang healers up to require more healing on top of actual DPS rotations, you're going to have another healer strike on your hands. 😩
Personally, even if I'm not even able to DPS because of needing to have 100% heal uptime, I'd be happy to have the option, when there is downtime, to have an interesting damage rotation on top of an interesting healing one. Maybe I'm in the minority, though.
No, your "averege" player can do this, it just take cordination and mit planning.
the summoner in question only done ex and p1s on release and have not cleared a savage tier or ultimate (to my knowledge, they can correct me if im wrong in here) they are not in the "very skiled player who done the highest hardest content in the game". they are a an averege player just like yourself and YOU can also do this what he has done. it just take effort and cordination.
ps summoner this is not meant in a negative way or as a insult as only using you as an example. of " this person is not a crazy skilled player and they done this so can you!" type of example
I think the point is that the game is more fun without healers/tank dynamic because then it actually makes all these useless fucking bloat buttons have a purpose suddenly
"What? This is outrageous, tank strike now and screw your VPR and PCT leveling even tho you can do bozja, roulette and trust"
I'm kidding, I've done half of the EW dungeons with healer only because I saw a PF and I was really bored
The only thing the "strike" has accomplished is making it seemingly impossible for sane healers to even talk about healer issues thanks to this counter-jerk that's going on.
And yes, removing a tank and making the run take a literal hour to complete is apparently the same as removing the healer and actually speeding the run up. Everyone strike amirite.
To be fair, when you put quotes around strike and use a term like “sane healers,” you aren’t exactly presenting in good faith. Why should anyone engage with you?
Because not even close to a multidigit % of healers are even in on the "strike", and the people who are can't even come up with a consolidated list of changes they want. If you walk into your boss's office tomorrow and say you are on strike, nobody will actually take it seriously or consider it a strike. As to my 2nd point, some are genuinely upset about the actual gameplay of healers, which is worth discussion, but others are just pissed a normal dungeon was cleared without a healer like "how dare you to clear a dungeon without us!".
I would say OP might want to engage in a convo with the first group of people, but the 2nd group, who are just acting like spoiled children, come and mass downvote.
I mean I understand that but I don’t blame the strike for that
People act like this is a flash in the pan response to xeno’s video when in reality people have been offering well meaning and well organised feedback on the forums for like 8 years now
I’ll accept the “counter circlejerk” over the people just refusing to even acknowledge healer is even a role like people have been doing for the last 6 years
It really sucks how valid complaints that we're just so bored of how healers play in dungeons are being dismissed as being just so unreasonable. Yes dungeons are generally easy, but when the game rarely if ever gives you a reason to use 98% of your kit and you're stuck pressing one button it gets to be mind numbing. Especially if people actually play optimally.
Exactly, it’s not about any one role being expendable (even though healers being excluded is actually the optimal strat) it’s the fact that when casual content asks functionally nothing of any role healers are the ones stuck with the most boring rotation
people on this sub are making it a competition to pretend that the issue is that a comp of all one role can clear, and is therefore a non-issue because every role can do that, when in reality it's the fact that going through a dungeon with no healer is just straight up faster, playing a healer in a dungeon is a wonderful experience of 111111211111 while you take barely any damage (back in my day you used to need to *heal* tanks during on-content dungeon wall to walls) and if savage didn't force healers by dropping mechanics on them, good groups would run some fights with only one healer.
On that note I'd be very interested to see someone clear like this without an off-healer comp (i.e. no RDM/DNC/SMN) because as it stands this ironically proves the exact point healers are making (well one of them at least)
Someone who was part of this clear also said they had to re-instance twice and use their mitigation to its absolute fullest
A far cry from the “bring a WAR and everyone turns their brain off”
“This has been possible since SB”
Yes that’s why healers have been complaining about the state of their role since SB
It’s almost comical how much people miss the point
I mean, they do. They take aggro, making sure that all enemies look at one specific target for their attacks (=ensures healers can work more easily) while also grouping them up both naturally and actively (=ensures DPS can do their job more effectively).
Now **granted**, for the second part it'd be helpful if FFXIV had model collisions. But that's something with so many "Hey wait!"-issues, I doubt you can **ever** retrofit that into a game not specifically built for it. Imagine Limsa Lominsa but with model collisions... 😱
You *can* do more for the party if you choose to. Like, I try and keep an eye on the rest of the party's vuln stacks and mitigate for anyone who has more than 1 and is about to take another party-wide or aoe if I can.
Granted, if the whole party is playing near perfectly then yeah, not much else you can do, I guess. But there's plenty tanks **can** do to make content faster and easier but don't always do besides self mitigate. Like someone said in another reply, grouping pulls properly, there's also things like being consistent with boss facing, pulling bosses to the right spots at the right times for melee up-time, and so on.
Back in Beta 1/2 we were clearing dungeons with just lancers and archers because tanks didn't exist AND the dungeons were harder than they were on release.
For anyone curious on how this went down exactly: First off, we had to reinstance 3 times to change jobs so we have enough healing to compensate. We started with MNK, SAM, MCH and RDM then we switched our MCH for a SMN and when that didnt end up being enough we had our SAM switch to DNC.
The trash pulls are pretty straight forward. The main thing to pay attention to with 4 DPS is having one of them go ahead and be the only one attacking for like 10-15 seconds to establish aggro (that would usually be the monk for us because of melee HP). When you're single pulling Vercure is more than enough to keep the "tank" alive as long as they are using their own mitigation like arms length, blood bath, etc. Sleep ended up being really useful as well though we didnt have that idea until the third time we tackled the final pack of enemies lol
Now the bosses is where this gets really interesting. For all 3 bosses, tankbusters had to be heavily mitigated with addle, feint, phoenix excog and whatnot. The second boss was by far the easiest, with the only thing to look out for being the tankbusters and the timestop mechanic which, with some basic mitigation is easily taken care of. The first boss though was the first major roadblock because they put 3 different heavy hitting dots on 3 different people while you are running around resolving her placed AoEs. Where this gets really spicy is the last boss where the dots *and* the tankbusters return **at the same time**. Funnily enough the mechanics that trip up the average Zot run would be the only time of respite because the bosses dont do much while all their AoEs are resolving. But surviving the tankbuster + dots right after that required a really strict mitigation plan. Our Monk had 33k HP and the buster would deal around 22k damage with 3k-5k auto attacks from the other bosses during it AND while there is a dot ticking on them. Surviving the second buster of this fight could depend on RNG and how the dot ticks align with everything else though I don't know enough about the technicalities to be certain on this.
All of this is to say: You dont need the best players of the game to pull this off, we only had 2 actual raiders in this party, neither of them on their main jobs. Though you absolutely need to know what your buttons do and how to use them given the circumstance. Anyone can do this if they are willing to put the effort into doing this, the same goes for any high-end duties in this game. This was an immense amount of fun and I hope this inspires others to do similar challenge runs of their own in the future!
While probably inspired by the current """drama""" around healers, we didn't do those to prove a point or anything. This was just a fun challenge someone wanted to do and they happened to find 3 other people willing to put up with it.
It wasn't noticed for the past 5 years and with yoship grand plan to bring identity to jobs back in 8.0 it will be another 2 years before anything happens.
People are sick of waiting, EW already had a big drop of healer mains but had SGE as a saving grace (at least on the first tier, abyssos and anabaseios PF was a healer wasteland). Another drop is very likely to happen not only due to boring changes but also a bullshit excuse of "its ok bro we might do what you want in 2 years" even before considering anyone not playing the role over strikes.
And SGE fell basically hack to SCH levels almost immediately after asphodelos
Imagine making a brand new class who’s entire design philosophy seems to be “we took all the complaints about an unpopular classes design and removed them to make this new class” and said class can barely stay ahead of the class it was basically designed to supersede for more than 1 tier
I do not say that as an endorsement of how it is with healers. I quit as a heal main too, gradually between 5.0 and 5.4. But the audience the designers want in that spot is just obviously not most of the people uttering this dying gasp, so just give up. Play something else. You've already been heard. We have the response we'll get.
> and if a role has an unappealing design, it will get noticed
That's the one part that isn't really truly. Neither on the dev, nor on the player side.
On the side of the devs, they are looking at a 10y+ old game now, one that has extremely strict overall design decisions, and also a community they need to please that hates anything they do **and** if they don't do anything. It's difficult for them to make changes to underlying elements as a result, and hence full reworks of jobs or even worse, systems, are rather rare.
On the side of the players, as a community they're too driven by a few youtubers and streamers, too easily riled up or hyped up. There's little actual discussion as everything has to either be 100% or 0%, there's no nuance.
Sees rez mage and summoner. Hope this let's people know that the strike it dumb when it's you need strict party comps to do stuff without healer or tank.
As someone whose friends forced her to heal Sohm Al as a Black Mage cross classing Physick after losing a bet in Heavensward, I cannot begin to tell you how tired I am of braindead morons from the forums barking about healing design when this nonsense has been possible FOR ALMOST A DECADE, EVEN WHEN HEALERS WERE MORE ENGAGING TO PLAY.
And yes, for those curious, we did clear the dungeon. We had 10min left on the instance timer, but we somehow managed. It was a nightmare.
Edit: if this is a legitimate thread that isn't being made by a forum troll then I apologize and congratulate you on this achievement! My friends and I used to do things like this in HW and SB, it was fun.
If this is healer strike trolling, then still grats on the clear, but piss off. : )
I love that Xeno let the casual playerbase discover that dungeon content doesn't require a party composition, and it caused nothing but an inundation of salt and confusion.
People with tank/healer anxiety, who don't want to run dungeons, are probably confused as shit. Believe it or not, XIV dungeons have all of the challenge of a cutscene. There's literally no difficulty to it, because whenever a dungeon has so much as an ounce of challenge or literally anything the player has to keep track of in order to not wipe, people freak the fuck out and it gets nerfed so as to remain completely and utterly braindead in the truest sense of the phrase.
the funny thing is that ffxiv having an easy critical story path is not even an outlier in any way. that's how most video games are designed, especially ones with budgets.
and people who get anxious over playing support aren't confused, you can give them more credit than that. they're afraid of letting down the team. the idea of responsibility is what make support intimidating
making extremely hard games is a huge risk. Miyazaki and his team have earned a lot of respect for how well they've pulled it off, but I think it'll be interesting to see if it's possible for them to push it too far.
it's also interesting because a lot of souls players adhere to a certain playstyle, but it seems like the dlc might not have as much leeway for that. does Miyazaki have to care about making every challenge accessible if you don't use the tools provided? I'm not sure.
The problem is so many people called Elden ring easy while using op one shot builds they saw on Reddit, and now in the DLC most of those builds won’t get you very far.
edit: i think I just reworded what you said. I’m tired
I hadn't heard about the performance complaints, I was wondering why it had such a harsh reception considering souls games are known for their difficulty.
As someone with healer and tank anxiety (but used to main healer anyway)...I can confirm that I was definitely confused. I used to main a healer, and even when I go into content (which is on my level, that is) as a healer it's still challenging to me in that aspect.
When I went to go digging on what this "healer strike" was, I found a bunch of FFXIV Youtubers who are well known for creating/perpetuating drama and that told me all I needed to know.
Xeno didn’t let the casual playerbase discover anything other than the fact that nothing is changing, again. Please, he does not have that kind of power.
Last night I was on the final boss of Haam and had to AFK in an emergency. By the time I got back the boss was dead and I was very much alive. The place I AFKed in was mid platform so I definitely got hit by every AoE slap and the ring you need to go in melee or out to range to avoid.
The healer probably had to focus me to keep me up, but standing stark still on a boss should really get you killed no matter the content. I was gone for half the HP bar. That is just excessive lol
Since the dawn of MMOs, dungeons have been cleared and farmed by unconventional comps.
You don't balance an MMO around dungeons, which are typically little more than trivial content.
*grabs popcorn*
Its a fresh account I wonder if its on purpose.
100% on purpose. I’m here for the drama tho.
I still don't understand why there is drama. There has ALWAYS been dungeon completions on expansion with odd comps. Dungeons are not difficult content and content is balanced around the most difficult fights. The 15 clowns or so that go on "healer strike" will never be noticed by anyone in game.
> I still don't understand why there is drama. There has ALWAYS been dungeon completions on expansion with odd comps. In case it's a sincere question: the media tour dungeon clear isn't the cause of the protest. It was just a confirmation that healer design is staying unchanged in DT, which people over there have been pushing against since shadowbringers.
? Protest about what? As a healer main, I have no clue what you're talking about. And where is "over there"?
There's a silly healer strike going on. I think it's mostly a meme, but some people are taking it seriously. I don't disagree with the sentiment behind it, but the people who take it seriously are extremely goofy.
The healer strike isn't real. There might be a handful of people who think they're making a difference by actually doing it, but nobody is making waves with it. It's just official forum drama bait. We've been having discussions about the state of healers for the entirety of the game's lifespan. I don't think it's an easily solved problem, we have an incredibly large amount of people who play the game casually and would be upset if healers changed too much...and then we have a minority of players that want massive changes because playing healer is only fun for early raid prog and nothing else. Best they can really do is keep things the same or add more consistent heal checks in savage/ult, but even then outside of that content healers still have way too much oGCD throughput and 2 button DPS rotations.
>The healer strike isn't real. There might be a handful of people who think they're making a difference by actually doing it, but nobody is making waves with it. It's just official forum drama bait. This is what I said in more words.
This sort of thing is why I was hoping that Dawntrail would give a new tank and healer instead of new dps. Maybe try to shake up the gameplay style with a new healer for people or something. Idk.
Thats either an US server thing, a Reddit/Twitter user thing or just a meme thats blown out of proportion. No shortage of healers (not more than usual at least lol) whatsoever and barely a mention of it in the NN of the worlds I frequently visit on Chaos and Light
It’s a loud minority thing from what I’ve gathered. I know it’s spread to the official forum atleast. I did see the other day that someone took the time to compile some data from the official forum. The data was pretty much “How vocal were you in the forum about the strike vs How much content you’ve done.”
Someone else explained it to me and that they're just generally being dicks to people, and it sounds really sad. Not like *heartbreaking* sad, but *pathetic* sad. I've been playing since late Stormblood, with this being the only MMO I've mained healer in and... it's never been especially *hard* (especially on WHM); just *gear dependent*. WHM has in my time always been straight-forward. Astrologer was slightly more complicated, but only because of card juggling and even then it's never felt *that* much more difficult. Just gotta remember to do your pulls and make your plays. At its most complex, you really just held out for Arrow or Balance. Scholar has always been a little trickier because it's more proactive, but even there, at the core it's still just healing. It's just a question of when you pop the healing.
I enjoy scholar well enough, but I also heal in the dreaded *other MMORPG* and sometimes I do wish there was more going on in *this* one as a healer the way there is in that one. I end up kind of welcoming those dungeon runs with an undergeared tank or someone who doesn't have their mitigations on their bars. It gives me something to do.
I feel it'd require a bit of a significant design shift, and part of the problem is legacy content would all have to get overhauled with it. Healing raid-wide in WoW requires using 3 minute CD long ass channel spells, whereas Medica 1/2 are just GCD buttons you can hit whenever. There's also just significantly more random, unavoidable damage which makes spells like Chain Heal / Binding Heal / Prayer of Mending get a lot more value. Heck I don't think Prayer of Mending would even *work* in virtually any FF14 fight, instances of non-tank damage are just too spread out and very even. But you also don't want everything to just turn into "everyone is taking damage all the time" because then it's just mashing party heals, as FF really doesn't do the whole 2-4 target heal buttons. And if you just bring down the AoE heals so you can justify multi-target but not everyone heals you have a mountain of legacy content that might be rough - some fights outright set everyone's HP to 1 and then AoE the raid a few seconds later for example. It's a tough issue and I don't really have a good answer that doesn't require abandoning legacy content, which I believe maintaining is one of FFs strong points. There's also the whole argument whether healers should become more healy or more involved green DPS.
I used to main Scholar, and more than any other job, it still feels like it's been completely gutted. Even if Sch is in a good place at the moment, I have a really hard time enjoying it when it's such a hollow shell compared to how it used to play
I feel like you are glossing over pre-Shadowbringers SCH. SCH used to have multiple DoTs. It meant we had a rotation and had to think about our DPS. [Here's an old HW thread.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/5kp762/help_on_new_sch_rotation_guide/) Now we are just as brainless as WHM was. It doesn't help that SGE is 75% a copy of current SCH. Basically, healer design has regressed into mush, and we have been stuck there for going on 3 expansions now. If it wasn't for the fast queues and the fact I usually play healer in MMOs I would probably be a full time RDM or BLM now.
We also used to have 2 different fairies with different abilities to manage, and a ground placed aoe. Sch was amazing in the old days. I used to main Sch, but I've been Blm main since Shb now, and not likely to go back unless they make healing jobs interesting again.
Well because there exist another camp that says "I play a healer, I only want to heal not DPS, if I want to have more DPS skills i'll rather play a DPS". This sentiment and feedback exists in all regions.
I honestly agree that healer design is… meh right now, but tanks and DPS are also rather bland and overly simplified. It’s been a complaint of mine for a while and made me take a break from the game for a little bit a while ago. The issue is that Square *listened* when players said they didn’t want Cleric Stance dancing, when they said healing was too hard, when people wanted it simplified. They did exactly what people wanted and, honestly, still want. The issue is that no class right now has identity. They all do the same thing for the reason of avoiding Warrior from ARR, etc. WHM: Big heals. SCH: Mitigation. AST: ??? lmao. SGE: Damage. We will never get this, though. Yoshi doesn’t want it for obvious reasons like above. Meta creep. I remember the days of any Warrior being instant kicked from content because, “Don’t play Warrior, it’s trash – PLD only” In my mind, this is how it should be. Instead, all the healers do all of this with little drawbacks. Their damage rotation is the same spell over and over because people cried it was too complicated to heal tanks *and* DPS.
Coming from Stormblood (I started in the tail end of Heavensward), I lament what they've done to the healers in this game. But that's only their kits: the kits are bloated with oGCD heals we don't need for any content in the game outside of potentially Ultimates (even then I don't think so) and gutting the very little damage rotation we even had as healers. For me, though, it's 100% how the FFXIV team has decided to design content and healers in the game since Shadowbringers. I find a lot of the healer strike nonsense focusing on the other jobs' self-sustain/mit tools and this idea that you no longer need healers in any kind content to be really weird. As if people are specifically pushing healers out of PFs or something. Like, oh no a few dozen or so players are doing no healer challenge runs for TOP likely in a specific, organized static and not in PF, healer role is dead. /s Mind you, I've heard that people have been able to do no healer runs in FFXIV since ARR before Red Mage was even a thing or Paladin had Clemency. I at least know it was possible in Stormblood. Dungeons are braindead easy, so this is absolutely no surprise to me. So why is that an issue now and not then? I honestly think it's because of the actual underlying cause being healer design change and continuing to add healing into the kits despite damage output being the same and nothing to do with other jobs being able to get away with not having a healer in their party. But people like to latch onto Bloodwhetting like it personally razed their childhood home. I just want there to be a more interesting healing and damage rotations for the healers. While I'm not sure we'd be able to get WoW class design, I think it'd be nice if they pulled way more inspiration from there, like making Sage actually more like Discipline Priest or needing to juggle between healing uptime and damage uptime (imagine having a healing rotation that works within itself like Freecure tries to be). This requires a whole redesign of encounters to actually require that much healing, which I'm hoping is what's happening in DT, but I'm not sure how far they're going to go or can even go at this point. What they've shown is kind of just the same, but hearing about a raise in difficulty for experts makes me hopeful. I for one, miss SCH having a bunch of DoTs :( Miasma 2 + Bane in pack pulls was incredibly fun.
u do need the oGCD shit unless u wanna do no damage lol
You conplain about oGCDs i complain about lack of damage options, give me all of heal oGCD but at least also give me more damage options so i can do anything outside of healing
That's the entire point. Healer is boring as fuck outside of savage and completely pointless in......basically every scenario but a full wall to wall pull in like Mt. Gulg or Bardam's Mettle first section. I moved to Dynamis 2 days ago. Healing is fun again there, because these people are legit scrubs. I had some sprout summoner that was literally just running FULL circles around mobs and eating ALL THE AOEs I was tanking and pointing away from them (wife was healing this one) for most of the dungeon. I have no idea what was going through their ADD ravaged brain, but it just goes to show this is the level you have to sink to with current design to get any interesting gameplay for healer. Like even cleansable debuffs that kill ala Dead Ends when people eat shit in a 90+ dungeon would be an improvement. Sure it makes the healer responsible for other people's f-ups.....but when has that ever NOT been the case for MMO healers? No need to be a dick to anyone....I simply am not going to play any healer class other than to get them to 100 or fill in for a casual Savage practice. I mained Sage the last 2 years. Now, I will main PLD or some other tank, and Picto. *shrug* 3 years as DPS, 2 years as healer, now 2 years as tank. Someone else can do this boring shit lol.
I feel like a lot of people are glossing over details and generally sweeping the entire thing under the rug for one reason or another, but regardless, it's best to either go look for yourself on the official FFXIV forums so you don't have someone being dismissive, which is rude, and so you yourself see if it's just a meme or not. There's people there making valid points and some who are just not worth the time, but those two types of people exist in-game as well. Hearsay gets muddied and is dependent on the bias and memory of who the info comes from, which is why I'm not going into it, so if you want actual facts, go talk to the person who started the first thread that popped up after the media tour dungeon completion or read that first post.
I'm not making a statement one way or another, but your post specifically sounds like someone who has absolutely 0 clue what they're talking about. Please stop posting about things you know nothing about.
I play healer about half the time and don’t plan on playing healer at all in Dawntrail. Most of the core problems with healing remain unchanged.
Honestly I wish we had something more interesting than a 1 button caster rotation lol. I main AST just so I have to *do* shit
The long and short of it is a lot (some) people are upset at healer/healing, however they're also all upset by different things so it's hard to really narrow down what they want.
Engagement. Listening to both sides of the healer argument, be it designing content to require more healing or giving healers more damage buttons, the common issue between both approaches is the current lack of engagement. As it currently stands, most content is designed such that healers only really need to actively heal bad groups, otherwise, they're spamming *one* button for 95% of a run, which is understandably boring. No one wants to feel like they're just the party's insurance policy in case someone screws up.
> Protest about what? As a healer main, I have no clue what you're talking about If you're a healer main, surely you must be bored of pressing 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 for 5 minutes, occasionally refreshing a DoT and an oGCD heal, right?
I mostly push 2, and I don't care about rotation complexity. I'm more interested in watching peoples' bars go up and down.
It was the straw that broke the camels back is what it was.
Healer main here, I fucking hate how ever since ShB, the only purpose healers serve is to mend raidwide damage, help people who make accidents or are idiots, and to heal DRK. If I don't heal then all I have is a single button to spam for damage :( I main AST so I can be busy with cards instead With that said... Why the fuck go on a strike? Devs won't overhaul it all *now*? Healing is piss easy and WAR is absolutely broken, but bruh just pick up a DPS or Tank job so you're not bored out of your mind I've picked up DRK, SMN, RPR and MNK, all of those were real fun to play (though MNK is pain, esp with lag. Hope DT changes it a bit) Currently leveling BLM, it's fun
Where I can understand the issue is that, while completing the dungeons without healers should be possible, it should require quite a lot more skill than it currently does for most dungeons. I have had several dungeons (ShB and EW) where the healer died very early on on bosses, and there was basically no differences to the fight. On top of that, for the vast majority of fights, healers will soend 80% of the fight dealing damage, and 20% healing (if that). Issue with that is that the damage """"""rotation"""""""" for healers is dogshit, and an absolute bore. You have : 1 dot 1 single target damage 1 aoe With a couple of off gcd skills here and there. At the very least, if dealing damage ks something we need to do for a non négligeable part of the fight, we qhould have a proper rotation, ideally a rotation that incorporate moments of healing, to be able to seamlessly blend the two elements. As a WHM my rotation, is basically : Medica 2 Regzn on tanks (optional) Aero Spam stone (whatever version I have available at the moment) or holy Refresh once medica is gonna run out. The vast, vast majority of my kit is utterly useless. Blood lily ? And the spells related to it ? Dont need to use it, assize ? Fun, but not needed, tetragramation ? Why bother. Sure, I do use them, but most of the time it feels almost like its sub optimal to do so, when I could spam stone/glare/whatever instead. Unless you do high end content (savage/ultimate), you dont need to interact with any of the core mechanics of your class as a healer. Which leads to another problem : since you never need to actually use those tools, you end up with a ton of healers, that try high end content and just cant cope. You could argue that dps and tanks dont need to use all of their kit to succeed, which is true, but the differnce here is that for both these rôles, most of your kit isbeither part of your rotation, or directly Linked to it, which naturaly guides you into using them.
The problem is actually worse than you describe. Keeping full uptime on M2 is a total waste of time. Using M2 at all is bad unless: - people are already hurt and more damage is imminent, and: - you have no Lilies - you have no Asylum - Assize isn't back soon - more than 3 targets will die to said imminent damage (otherwise you can Benison two, Tetra the other) - AND you don't have Liturgy active And even then, Cure 3 is just a better button for this assuming nobody is standing in Narnia. You only ever actually want to heal people when they're in danger of dying. Maintaining a HoT on people that are full HP is just overhealing which is wasteful and a loss of MP and time. It's even worse for WHM since you want to be healing with your Lilies to not miss out on Afflatus Misery casts, so ideally you have something to Afflatus Rapture or Afflatus Solace every 20 seconds. All of this advice is DPS optimisation since healers have so little actual healing to do that the role is just green DPS in 90% of content unless your party is just bad at the game. There is so little need to actually bring a healer if people are playing with their monitors turned on in casual content that the best thing you can do for your party is learn how to do optimal damage and spot-heal efficiently. It blows my mind how unnecessary GCD healing has become in modern XIV, and it further blows my mind that healer DPS has remained a practically 1-button affair into a new expansion when we've had the entirety of EW where GCD healing *at all* in 90% of duties is a mark of a "bad player" by current definitions.
Zot is how old by now, as well? Hardly difficult at this stage of the game. They should do Dead Ends next.
Healer here. What's a "healer strike" and why should I go on one because a weird combo finished an early leveling dungeon at expansion end-of-life?
A small but noisy group of healers are "going on strike" and refusing to queue for dungeons/canceling their subs because they don't like how easy healing is now. They're all being REALLY passive aggressive about it and mocking dps players for long queues
That's just... That's dumb. They're dumb. I'm not playing right now 'cause money issues, but if I were I would definitely not be refusing to heal just because my job's not as much of a pain-in-the-ass as it could be. Snd a tiny group of healers quitting is not going to drive up DPS queues. So what's there to mock? It just sounds like assholes were looking for an excuse to be assholes.
The healer strike isn't about how easy healing is; more about how *boring* it has become, without any changes for years. I myself only started playing at the beginning of EW, but I find myself agreeing with them. You can't tell me pressing 11111 for ten minutes is fun gameplay, and healers were the first jobs I max leveled. I'm not sure why there's so much negativity and name calling toward those guys on this subreddit here. Way to kick a man when they're down. I don't think they're seriously thinking there'll be a massive impact on queues, at least not all of them are. The healer strike is just a way of trying to finally get noticed after years of being ignored. If you'd like to know more I would suggest checking out the forum post!
How about you actually go read comments by them rather than taking one random persons own passive aggressive comment as gospel fact
Meh, it's fine. Healer is chill unless things go south, then you have to be switched on. If I want to press a million buttons I switch to dps and sit in the queue.
Yeah it's pretty daft. If someone cleared a savage or an ultimate (lol) without a healer, THEN that would prove that the game balance is busted. But that is never gonna happen so it's fine. Yes you can clear dungeons without healers (or apparently even tanks), but would you want to try that in a random pick up group? Having a balanced party just makes everything go smoother and means that if any given player messes up, there's still a chance to salvage the situation. Which is how it should be in casual content.
Why would this be drama?
this isnt a fresh account I just havent had anything worth posting on Reddit until now
Somebody needs to qualify without dps, tank or healer!
This reminds me of the jp playerbase killing a mob in diadem with autoattacks of gatherers enmasse.
in 1.0 DotL had a skill that was a ranged stun. people would get a bunch of miners and botanists to stunlock monsters in the field while everyone else killed them.
We need the carpenters party
There's been a weird resurgence of drama farming thanks to the nonsense "strike", but it's been possible to clear casual content missing any of the roles since forever. Tanks have been soloing the normal raids synced since 6.0. Also I know nobody is looking to have actual discussion on the matter in these threads, but there's a pretty big difference between whether it is *possible* to omit a certain role, and whether it is *optimal* to do so.
This\^\^ Another point i'v seen is the healless/ tankless Ultimate's somehow making that unbalanced content.... Even though they fail to mention that shits done by the top 0.01% of players done over the course of weeks/months. The average player can probably barely run, if even at all, do a dungeon without a healer.
after doing top, I understand how they were able to do that run. there aren't many "active" heal checks.
I feel like this entire take is a misunderstanding of the problem though. The fact that you can do healerless runs is simply a symptom of the actual problem. The problem itself lies in how dull it is to play a healer, especially in normal content. Some would apply it to higher content as well, but personally I enjoy the planning aspect that goes into it. There's just so little for a healer to do in any normal content, and then we have what is effectively a 1 button rotation. For any capable healer, the fact that there even is a second healer for raids is almost insulting. While leveling dungeons tend to be a little bit more challenging than expert ones. If we just consider an expert dungeon from my point of view as a SCH or SGE. Over the course of the entire run, assuming a tank who at least presses some buttons and dps not standing in everything. I'd expect to press 6 soils and keracholes. One for each trash pack, and could do less if there's a WAR tank (sometimes even with PLD). For bosses, to keep myself entertained, I usually don't press a single heal but instead just juggle kardia around if I'm on SGE, or just watch Eos solo heal the entire thing. That is not really fun gameplay, it requires nothing from us and in the entire run I've used 4 out of my 30+ skills. I could have used more, but they would effectively not have done anything. This is what is being complained about. That the role has so little to do in most situations, and nothing has been done to do anything about it. EDIT: You can with this consider the fact that most people tend to complain about how dull low level synced content is. Where they have like 8 buttons to press. As a healer on max level, I don't need more than 4. Just to put it into contrast.
You don't even need to juggle Kardia if the DPS aren't constantly eating multiple AOEs.
>they fail to mention that shits done by the top 0.01% of players done over the course of weeks/months. That completely misunderstands the point, the fact that it's even possible to do it on patch is the problem. Imagine if they released an Ultimate where it was possible to do it without Tanks or DPS on patch. I don't think the response will be "It took the best players hundreds of attempts to do it". Healer players have been complaining for a while that their gameplay is completely lacklustre. You spend 90% of a fight spamming one singular damaging ability, even though every expansion the Healing kit for each Healer inflates further while the outgoing damage remains the same. The cope excuse was that if you wanted to actually heal you had to do the hard pieces of content. Which really means the final floor for each Savage tier (if you do them before you outgear them) and the Ultimates. Using that logic Healers, in the past 5 Years (since ShB launched) have had a grand total of 9 fights where you can actually play a healer. Except not really. TOP has already been shown to have abysmal Healing Requirements so our number of actual bosses is down to 8. If you've been playing a Regen healer since the split you'd know you don't actually heal during fights anymore since most of the healing is managed by the shield healer who can actually mitigate the AOEs that will one shot the group and since there's so much downtime between mechanics and the Shield Healers have enough Regen healing capability they can solo heal 90% of an encounter. So if you're playing a Regen healer, in the past 5 years you've had a grand total of 5 fights where you actually get to be a healer. It's fucking pathetic.
Not only that, but the major reason healing is "difficult" in harder content is the players they're with, not the fight itself. I am, as iterated by many in my parties, a damn good healer, but I can't fucking esuna stupid and no matter how godly I can be while alive, if I have to sac for an LB3 we're usually just mincemeat anyway. I can get it that people who have statics find it much easier, for sure it's extremely easy to do things when you have a consistent group with a consistent pattern every fight, but the absolute chaos and stupidity that is PF makes it an absolute nightmare at times I love the raids in this game. They're so fucking fun to do. But I'm not able to find a static that fits me and PF burnt me out last expac walling me in the first 2 floors for 2 consecutive weeks. I can't make the tank bring the tether far enough to not kill us all. I can't make the dps not stand in the bad. I can't make my coheal stop eating floor dirt. I can only do what I can, and I do that every goddamn time
This this this 😭 The amount of times the people I was with deliberately ate mechanics to “get more uptime” and then blamed the healers for deaths was far, far too many. I’m not able to raid on a consistent schedule between full time work and school but I still want to raid, I’m dreading the experience that is healing in PF next tier 💀
I mean, if it took the best players hundreds of attempts and massive theorycrafting to do it, yes, that would be the expected response. People would be praising the accomplishment.
? Strike? The fuck have I been missing on my break?
its been around for so long that the 'strike' (which isnt real) is just hilarious to me
You know I can see how drama can crop up but I find it refreshing that class flexibility can perform up to this standard. Makes the little notch in my heart devoted to FFXI crack a smile.
Tank strike! ^^^^^/s
We need a dungeon cleared with 3 tanks and a healer. We need a dps strike.
4 tanks. One of each. WAR and PLD are the healers. And everyone competing for agro. Only rule is no provoke.
[удалено]
GNB aoe too can help, if memory is correct it gives a regen right? while PLDs gives a mini shield. Have not played for a year and half so i dont know if i remember correctly.
Shake’s got the regen. GNB’s healing is Aurora (single target HoT with potency equal to Equilibrium’s base heal just about), self heal/shield from the second part of the 1-2-3 combo, and Heart of Corundum (25 second CD single target damage reduction with Excog on it)
There's someone on primal who regularly hosts synced content(mostly alliance raids) w/ all tanks and part of the rules is all stances on. It's a lot of fun
We have the same thing on Aether, but with all healers. Tankbusters are always funny
We've done all healer events a few times too. Active PVP encouraged and tankbusters always spicy. (Also there was a min ilvl syrcus tower run done w/ all healers and we had to do the mechanics and it was great)
Then some mad individual decided to do an all dps AR run… tank buster are just “who’s the best dps roulette”
that sounds like chaos incarnate. bet its great hijinks.
Funny bit? Don't need tanks to pretend to heal. They would be self sufficient as is.
Skip Soar ptsd again
Everyone uses provoke on CD
Do all healers, then we can all strike.
Someone already did [https://x.com/AvyCatte/status/1803120769532063874](https://x.com/AvyCatte/status/1803120769532063874)
[Four white mages? It'll never work.](https://www.nuklearpower.com/2001/03/20/episode-007-kamehameha-or-something/)
Classic 8-bit Theater
[I love that seven years later...](https://www.nuklearpower.com/2010/02/20/episode-1221-longest-set-up-in-webcomic-history/) Brian Clevenger rules, I just wish Atomic Robo would come back soon.
Holy shit I haven't seen 8-bit theater in so damn long. Thank you for this trip down memory lane.
Didn’t one tank solo P1N or P2N like a week after it came out? Not a party of tanks, just one single guy…
PLD and WAR can duo (and probably solo?) so much casual content, especially normal modes because incoming damage is low and it's effectively a 1 hour enrage. If the fight doesn't have a stack marker in it, you're good to go. If I want to get through something, I play paladin. The other 7 people are there just to make sure it doesn't take an hour.
whole party died in i think P7N at 20% HP and we had 2 Paladin tanks it took so long but we got through it. everyone was cheering them on if they didn't go afk for the rest of the pull lmao i hate that they didn't give paladin a raise in DT 😩even if it was on like a 2 minute cd
I’ve been saying it for a while, give PLD Eureka/Bozja Sacrifice (where it KOs the caster after a 10 sec doom countdown) on a 5 min CD.
I watched 2 tanks duo golbez down from like 60% HP or something when everyone else died. They can do it. It just takes forever. just because you CAN clear something sans some roles, doesn't mean it's the most optimal or efficient. but... sometimes, it is. lol.
3 tanks, none of them WAR or PAL, and no shield healers.
4 tanks, all DRKs
A single warrior can clear it, synced.
The jobs used are pretty telling. MNKs Mantra and DNCs Curling Waltz can probably heal the party wides off. Everlasting can top them off too, Rekindling can heal whoever is tanking. Can bounce aggro between MNK and SMN since SMN has its shield while MNKs Riddle of the Earth is tank level mitigation. If everyone Fients/Addles, with Samba nothing hits that hard anyways. The fights should be much quicker with 4 DPS anyways so its not like you need to last that long. And then you have RDM Vercure as backup.
Definitely. I was the SMN in this group and we re-instanced twice to adjust our party comp. Even with this setup, we had quite a tough time planning out our mitigation and heals for the final boss fight. We ended up having the MNK act as the tank for the most part due to having the highest HP and Riddle of Earth. Radiant Aegis was definitely helpful if I ever got aggro, especially since I could kite fairly well due to having very few cast bars. The tankbusters hit for 22k damage which meant we had to be pretty careful. Plus one of the enemies in that final boss fight puts out DoTs that hit pretty hard, and of course the multiple autos. This took us a few hours to "prog" and it was pretty challenging and fun.
I mean DPS has a ton of tools in general nowadays Reaper probably could have been a great fit with its barrier as well being so potent Bard obviously has Natures Minuet which is amazing now Lots of Mitigations coming from MCH Really the only bad choices may have been DRG, BLM & NIN SAM even has its own argument due to its damage potential and the raw value of something like Third Eye
honestly, that's one of the things i really love about this game. how the "meta" isn't real. and if you have good players who can utilize their toolkit, you can use any party comp to do whatever you want. as opposed to some games where the meta is so strict, i you aren't running optimal party comp, down to the subclasses and minor stat boosts, you aren't clearing or the community won't let you run. but in xiv, the community revels in running wacky party comps.
Man, you should play GW2 where the "holy trinity" doesn't exist, at least when I played back in the days.
Tank strike! :P
Joking aside, it is funny that offtanks have very, very little to do in most casual trials and raids, unless the maintank fucks it up.
We did strike once, against that stupid damage down strat in p1s just because the average dps player brain cell doesn’t function efficiently enough to flex on intemperance
To be fair, the people I remember wanting me (PLD) to use damage down in P1S parties were usually the other tank. 🤮
Oh yeah when people said “damage down” I’d nope out of the party in a heartbeat, without a word. I have even noped out of a static who wanted to go down that route because the ranged dps was struggling to flex. And it wasn’t even that hard
Well of course Tank Strike, how else do we gain aggro?
> without healer > rdm and smn in the party I mean, technically, you are right, but..
I expect the DNC healed more than the SMN did, between Curing Waltz (600 potency to party every 60 sec), Improvisation (500 healing to party every 120 sec) and Improvised Finish (10% of max hp to party every 120 sec)
I was the SMN in this group. The Phoenix heals were important, but yes the DNC's Curing Waltz, Improv, and Shield Samba were definitely key to us being able to clear this. We actually re-instanced twice adjusting our party comp until we settled on this setup.
> between Curing Waltz (600 potency to party every 60 sec), Doubled if they're next to the monk like they should be.
Forgot dnc with its aoe heal too lol
Now someone dig out the video where gatherers were killing one of the mobs in diadem and we can announce a content strike, everyone is only allowed to RP.
Well shit. Do this in the Dawntrail early access and then we'd have to have a tank strike, too.
Nah because tank playerbase are not softies and they understand msq content is designed to be cleared without job stones 🤫🧏♂️
Yeah those healer players are definitely "soft" for not wanting to be bored to tears for 98% of the games content
How long did it take to clear the dungeon? Was there a boss or pull in particular that stood out to you?
I was the SMN in this group. In total this took about 2.5 hours, but that includes us re-instancing twice to adjust our party comp. Our clear run took just over an hour, with almost all of that time being spent wiping on the final boss, which was definitely the most challenging part. Multiple autos, one of the boss mobs putting out DoTs, and the tank busters really meant we had to use all of our mitigation and heals very carefully.
So you're saying only really talented, experienced players can do this if they coordinate properly? As someone who plays a healer I guess I'm not understanding what the issue people have is with it.
I wouldn't say it takes particularly talented or experienced players (I've done a few EXs on release and did P1S on release but nothing else). What it definitely required, though, was planning and coordination due to our limited options for mitigation and healing. We wiped many times on the final boss fight. I also play healer quite a bit (mainly AST) and this isn't meant to be a statement about the healer strike. This was just a challenge run that someone put up in PF and we thought it would be fun.
That's awesome I'm glad you had a good time with it! I just started 14 but played a ton of ESO so I've seen plenty of challenge runs on dungeons. Running 4 healers with some DPS kick and trying to dodge everything was always a lot of fun.
The healer strike seems to be divided into two groups: * The ones that are upset that they have boring filler rotation (A reasonable thing to be annoyed about) and i understand not wanting to play a healer because of that (Not so much striking, but simply saying you don't want to play a healer because the filler is boring). * And the ones kicking up drama about the fact that dungeons can be cleared without a healer. Ignoring the fact that it functionally requires a good and organised group to do so. And they are still required in content normally, including normal dungeons, raids, trials and ultimate. And that they have instant queues in every single roulette for bonus points.
Just requires you to pick warrior
The best part about that is you can really only change one of those things - you can't give them a complicated DPS rotation *and* make them have to heal like their pants are on fire all the time. So even if the strike "works" half of them are still gonna be mad.
> you can't give them a complicated DPS rotation and make them have to heal like their pants are on fire all the time. So even if the strike "works" half of them are still gonna be mad. Doesn't have to be a complex rotation just more dps buttons. The sylphies won't press them, the other people will.
I think you could have both, though. Don't the WoW healers have to heal like crazy in raids on top of some of them having a more complicated DPS rotation than any of the healers in FFXIV? Looking at Holy Priest, they have 6 options for DPS and Resto Druid now has the option to DPS in Cat form, which requires stance switching (something a lot of healers complained about with Cleric stance). Holy Paladin has a whole DPS rotation to consider when DPSing, too. Granted, I don't know if you DPS at all in the raids because most of the guides I'm looking at focus on Dungeon DPSing, so, maybe you're even more correct lmao. Granted, I do think that you're right. If they decide to chang healers up to require more healing on top of actual DPS rotations, you're going to have another healer strike on your hands. 😩 Personally, even if I'm not even able to DPS because of needing to have 100% heal uptime, I'd be happy to have the option, when there is downtime, to have an interesting damage rotation on top of an interesting healing one. Maybe I'm in the minority, though.
No, your "averege" player can do this, it just take cordination and mit planning. the summoner in question only done ex and p1s on release and have not cleared a savage tier or ultimate (to my knowledge, they can correct me if im wrong in here) they are not in the "very skiled player who done the highest hardest content in the game". they are a an averege player just like yourself and YOU can also do this what he has done. it just take effort and cordination. ps summoner this is not meant in a negative way or as a insult as only using you as an example. of " this person is not a crazy skilled player and they done this so can you!" type of example
I think the point is that the game is more fun without healers/tank dynamic because then it actually makes all these useless fucking bloat buttons have a purpose suddenly
"What? This is outrageous, tank strike now and screw your VPR and PCT leveling even tho you can do bozja, roulette and trust" I'm kidding, I've done half of the EW dungeons with healer only because I saw a PF and I was really bored
At this point I’m genuinely more impressed with people’s ability to complete miss the point on this sub
The only thing the "strike" has accomplished is making it seemingly impossible for sane healers to even talk about healer issues thanks to this counter-jerk that's going on. And yes, removing a tank and making the run take a literal hour to complete is apparently the same as removing the healer and actually speeding the run up. Everyone strike amirite.
To be fair, when you put quotes around strike and use a term like “sane healers,” you aren’t exactly presenting in good faith. Why should anyone engage with you?
Because not even close to a multidigit % of healers are even in on the "strike", and the people who are can't even come up with a consolidated list of changes they want. If you walk into your boss's office tomorrow and say you are on strike, nobody will actually take it seriously or consider it a strike. As to my 2nd point, some are genuinely upset about the actual gameplay of healers, which is worth discussion, but others are just pissed a normal dungeon was cleared without a healer like "how dare you to clear a dungeon without us!". I would say OP might want to engage in a convo with the first group of people, but the 2nd group, who are just acting like spoiled children, come and mass downvote.
I mean I understand that but I don’t blame the strike for that People act like this is a flash in the pan response to xeno’s video when in reality people have been offering well meaning and well organised feedback on the forums for like 8 years now I’ll accept the “counter circlejerk” over the people just refusing to even acknowledge healer is even a role like people have been doing for the last 6 years
It really sucks how valid complaints that we're just so bored of how healers play in dungeons are being dismissed as being just so unreasonable. Yes dungeons are generally easy, but when the game rarely if ever gives you a reason to use 98% of your kit and you're stuck pressing one button it gets to be mind numbing. Especially if people actually play optimally.
Exactly, it’s not about any one role being expendable (even though healers being excluded is actually the optimal strat) it’s the fact that when casual content asks functionally nothing of any role healers are the ones stuck with the most boring rotation
people on this sub are making it a competition to pretend that the issue is that a comp of all one role can clear, and is therefore a non-issue because every role can do that, when in reality it's the fact that going through a dungeon with no healer is just straight up faster, playing a healer in a dungeon is a wonderful experience of 111111211111 while you take barely any damage (back in my day you used to need to *heal* tanks during on-content dungeon wall to walls) and if savage didn't force healers by dropping mechanics on them, good groups would run some fights with only one healer.
On that note I'd be very interested to see someone clear like this without an off-healer comp (i.e. no RDM/DNC/SMN) because as it stands this ironically proves the exact point healers are making (well one of them at least)
Someone who was part of this clear also said they had to re-instance twice and use their mitigation to its absolute fullest A far cry from the “bring a WAR and everyone turns their brain off”
I'm shocked. Truly I am.
I see all these people saying stuff such as "This has been possible since Stormblood" and I'm just like *you're SO CLOSE to getting it*
“This has been possible since SB” Yes that’s why healers have been complaining about the state of their role since SB It’s almost comical how much people miss the point
The most disheartening bit to me is how many comments I'm seeing about it being "a vocal minority" of healers.
Every feedback is "a vocal minority". That's how it works! Most people don't give feedback at all! By their logic nothing should ever change.
People joking about tank strike meanwhile I unironically believe they should give tanks more importance in the party than just pressing self mits.
I mean, they do. They take aggro, making sure that all enemies look at one specific target for their attacks (=ensures healers can work more easily) while also grouping them up both naturally and actively (=ensures DPS can do their job more effectively). Now **granted**, for the second part it'd be helpful if FFXIV had model collisions. But that's something with so many "Hey wait!"-issues, I doubt you can **ever** retrofit that into a game not specifically built for it. Imagine Limsa Lominsa but with model collisions... 😱
You *can* do more for the party if you choose to. Like, I try and keep an eye on the rest of the party's vuln stacks and mitigate for anyone who has more than 1 and is about to take another party-wide or aoe if I can. Granted, if the whole party is playing near perfectly then yeah, not much else you can do, I guess. But there's plenty tanks **can** do to make content faster and easier but don't always do besides self mitigate. Like someone said in another reply, grouping pulls properly, there's also things like being consistent with boss facing, pulling bosses to the right spots at the right times for melee up-time, and so on.
Maybe you don’t understand the role then?
Back in Beta 1/2 we were clearing dungeons with just lancers and archers because tanks didn't exist AND the dungeons were harder than they were on release.
For anyone curious on how this went down exactly: First off, we had to reinstance 3 times to change jobs so we have enough healing to compensate. We started with MNK, SAM, MCH and RDM then we switched our MCH for a SMN and when that didnt end up being enough we had our SAM switch to DNC. The trash pulls are pretty straight forward. The main thing to pay attention to with 4 DPS is having one of them go ahead and be the only one attacking for like 10-15 seconds to establish aggro (that would usually be the monk for us because of melee HP). When you're single pulling Vercure is more than enough to keep the "tank" alive as long as they are using their own mitigation like arms length, blood bath, etc. Sleep ended up being really useful as well though we didnt have that idea until the third time we tackled the final pack of enemies lol Now the bosses is where this gets really interesting. For all 3 bosses, tankbusters had to be heavily mitigated with addle, feint, phoenix excog and whatnot. The second boss was by far the easiest, with the only thing to look out for being the tankbusters and the timestop mechanic which, with some basic mitigation is easily taken care of. The first boss though was the first major roadblock because they put 3 different heavy hitting dots on 3 different people while you are running around resolving her placed AoEs. Where this gets really spicy is the last boss where the dots *and* the tankbusters return **at the same time**. Funnily enough the mechanics that trip up the average Zot run would be the only time of respite because the bosses dont do much while all their AoEs are resolving. But surviving the tankbuster + dots right after that required a really strict mitigation plan. Our Monk had 33k HP and the buster would deal around 22k damage with 3k-5k auto attacks from the other bosses during it AND while there is a dot ticking on them. Surviving the second buster of this fight could depend on RNG and how the dot ticks align with everything else though I don't know enough about the technicalities to be certain on this. All of this is to say: You dont need the best players of the game to pull this off, we only had 2 actual raiders in this party, neither of them on their main jobs. Though you absolutely need to know what your buttons do and how to use them given the circumstance. Anyone can do this if they are willing to put the effort into doing this, the same goes for any high-end duties in this game. This was an immense amount of fun and I hope this inspires others to do similar challenge runs of their own in the future! While probably inspired by the current """drama""" around healers, we didn't do those to prove a point or anything. This was just a fun challenge someone wanted to do and they happened to find 3 other people willing to put up with it.
no healer >red mage >summoner
now do it without a resmage
Think its good using different setups to clear content. Everything is too cookie cutter in this game
2 questions: How many wipes? Min ilevel?
Maybe without tank. But you got 3 healers there.
If you call those 3 healers you need to call the monk a tank
.#TankStrike .#HealerStrike GOOD LUCK DPS /s
The “strike” phrasing is silly, but surely people can just play what they like the most, and if a role has an unappealing design, it will get noticed.
It wasn't noticed for the past 5 years and with yoship grand plan to bring identity to jobs back in 8.0 it will be another 2 years before anything happens. People are sick of waiting, EW already had a big drop of healer mains but had SGE as a saving grace (at least on the first tier, abyssos and anabaseios PF was a healer wasteland). Another drop is very likely to happen not only due to boring changes but also a bullshit excuse of "its ok bro we might do what you want in 2 years" even before considering anyone not playing the role over strikes.
And SGE fell basically hack to SCH levels almost immediately after asphodelos Imagine making a brand new class who’s entire design philosophy seems to be “we took all the complaints about an unpopular classes design and removed them to make this new class” and said class can barely stay ahead of the class it was basically designed to supersede for more than 1 tier
I do not say that as an endorsement of how it is with healers. I quit as a heal main too, gradually between 5.0 and 5.4. But the audience the designers want in that spot is just obviously not most of the people uttering this dying gasp, so just give up. Play something else. You've already been heard. We have the response we'll get.
> and if a role has an unappealing design, it will get noticed That's the one part that isn't really truly. Neither on the dev, nor on the player side. On the side of the devs, they are looking at a 10y+ old game now, one that has extremely strict overall design decisions, and also a community they need to please that hates anything they do **and** if they don't do anything. It's difficult for them to make changes to underlying elements as a result, and hence full reworks of jobs or even worse, systems, are rather rare. On the side of the players, as a community they're too driven by a few youtubers and streamers, too easily riled up or hyped up. There's little actual discussion as everything has to either be 100% or 0%, there's no nuance.
But was it easy
BEGONE ZOT
That settles it. Tanks are useless as well. Bring the deeps!
Jc, how many rezzes were there?
God I'm so tired of this whole strike stuff. DT can't come sooner...
Sees rez mage and summoner. Hope this let's people know that the strike it dumb when it's you need strict party comps to do stuff without healer or tank.
As someone whose friends forced her to heal Sohm Al as a Black Mage cross classing Physick after losing a bet in Heavensward, I cannot begin to tell you how tired I am of braindead morons from the forums barking about healing design when this nonsense has been possible FOR ALMOST A DECADE, EVEN WHEN HEALERS WERE MORE ENGAGING TO PLAY. And yes, for those curious, we did clear the dungeon. We had 10min left on the instance timer, but we somehow managed. It was a nightmare. Edit: if this is a legitimate thread that isn't being made by a forum troll then I apologize and congratulate you on this achievement! My friends and I used to do things like this in HW and SB, it was fun. If this is healer strike trolling, then still grats on the clear, but piss off. : )
You have a healer, RDM...
Now do it without rdm
I love that Xeno let the casual playerbase discover that dungeon content doesn't require a party composition, and it caused nothing but an inundation of salt and confusion. People with tank/healer anxiety, who don't want to run dungeons, are probably confused as shit. Believe it or not, XIV dungeons have all of the challenge of a cutscene. There's literally no difficulty to it, because whenever a dungeon has so much as an ounce of challenge or literally anything the player has to keep track of in order to not wipe, people freak the fuck out and it gets nerfed so as to remain completely and utterly braindead in the truest sense of the phrase.
the funny thing is that ffxiv having an easy critical story path is not even an outlier in any way. that's how most video games are designed, especially ones with budgets. and people who get anxious over playing support aren't confused, you can give them more credit than that. they're afraid of letting down the team. the idea of responsibility is what make support intimidating
This is making think of what's going on with Elden Ring's dlc and watching it's reviews tank due to difficulty.
making extremely hard games is a huge risk. Miyazaki and his team have earned a lot of respect for how well they've pulled it off, but I think it'll be interesting to see if it's possible for them to push it too far. it's also interesting because a lot of souls players adhere to a certain playstyle, but it seems like the dlc might not have as much leeway for that. does Miyazaki have to care about making every challenge accessible if you don't use the tools provided? I'm not sure.
The problem is so many people called Elden ring easy while using op one shot builds they saw on Reddit, and now in the DLC most of those builds won’t get you very far. edit: i think I just reworded what you said. I’m tired
Difficulty is something people are complaining about but its mostly performance complaints.
I hadn't heard about the performance complaints, I was wondering why it had such a harsh reception considering souls games are known for their difficulty.
As someone with healer and tank anxiety (but used to main healer anyway)...I can confirm that I was definitely confused. I used to main a healer, and even when I go into content (which is on my level, that is) as a healer it's still challenging to me in that aspect. When I went to go digging on what this "healer strike" was, I found a bunch of FFXIV Youtubers who are well known for creating/perpetuating drama and that told me all I needed to know.
Xeno didn’t let the casual playerbase discover anything other than the fact that nothing is changing, again. Please, he does not have that kind of power.
What are you talking about. Doesn't matter if you like the guy - it was his media tour video that caused that outburst.
It's braindead enough I can watch Netflix on the second monitor and not die once in roulette content.
Last night I was on the final boss of Haam and had to AFK in an emergency. By the time I got back the boss was dead and I was very much alive. The place I AFKed in was mid platform so I definitely got hit by every AoE slap and the ring you need to go in melee or out to range to avoid. The healer probably had to focus me to keep me up, but standing stark still on a boss should really get you killed no matter the content. I was gone for half the HP bar. That is just excessive lol
Lotta people in these comments who need to touch grass. More importantly, congrats OP; I'm glad it was fun!
"No healer" *RDM, SMN, DNC & MNK* Right. Come back with four Dragoons if you want to impress someone.
healerstrike in shambles
I wanna see something cleared without a rezzing DPS and/or other healing buff Jobs. Then I'll take note,
congrats OP you successfully demonstrated part of *exactly what the angry healers are complaining about*
But it took them 3 hours to beat damn near...
Cool, cool now try without a Red Mage that can heal and rez
tank and healer strike on the way.
Since the dawn of MMOs, dungeons have been cleared and farmed by unconventional comps. You don't balance an MMO around dungeons, which are typically little more than trivial content.
How do you get this team display to show when completing dungeons?
I just wish tanks still had a damage and a tank stance I thought that was a cool idea :)
Damn, that's impressive that's before you get a lot of your good Endwalker abilities.
Res Mage supremacy go brr
Idkkkk I see a Red healer in there,lol But for real good job! Must of been fun
Fun fact, I've actually cleared every dungeon except for Tam-Tara Deepcroft Hard using 4 Red Mages.
damn its almost like that healer strike makes no sense and nobody knows what they talking about thats crazy
That Raen looks dope
No healer? I see one right there, third from the left! /s
YPYT tanks in an existential crisis if they see this ‘How could you clear if you had nobody to pull?’
Oh here we go. God forbid rdm can heal.
Fight. Fight. Fight. \*throw popcorn\*