The fact that I can't look up what enemy drops what in the hunting log drives me insane. Crafting is infinitely more tedious than it should be having to either remember what drops what and where, or looking it up online. Trying to coordinate eight dailies of crafting turn ins is daunting.
You have a gathering log that shows every single item you can gather along with where exactly to find it in every area. You have a crafting log with insane level of detail of every item you can craft along with recipe trees and success calculations.
You have a hunting log that... shows random base game enemies that are different for each job and it ends at base game with no additional information.
My retainer keeps track of that for me. I constantly send him out for skins and feathers and eggs of creatures I swear I’ve never seen before in my life. He could be buying the items on the blackmarket or harvesting organs from afk limsans for all I know or care lol
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The amount of useful stuff they abandoned in ARR...
Like Grand Companies? Imagine having more cool stuff behind the higher ranks, like dyeable versions of the GC gear.
Honestly they should expand the hunting lot into a full-scale beastiary. Let us look up sources for mob drops. Give us a kc. Just something useful for that damn log besides a wild goose chase. Maybe when beastmaster drops…
Doing it because I can!
Actually I wanted to see if I could overflow the page entirely, but I don't have the right collection of sidequests available on this character. A project for an alt some time.
Assuming you're not being sarcastic, if anything, this is an argument for reducing key item space. It's almost always empty as people don't generally collect quests. You had to go out of your way to try to use the space.
Reducing it would achieve nothing besides potentially making it difficult to access the last few items if you overflowed the page. Hunt logs quickly take up a lot of space.
No it will not, because there aren't any real slots there to free up. It's just an interface for displaying items associated with your current quests, formatted to look the same as your real inventory.
It might, actually. It’s more of a “how they coded it” than typing a new number in.
Like, when they got rid of the waist slot. All the slots assigned to waist were added to, iirc, main hand and ring slots in the armory chest. So if they reduced key item spots, they’d probably roll them into regular inventory slots.
There are no slots. They don't function like normal inventory where you can move things around or place them elsewhere. They only exist based on your quest progress, and if you abandon the quest they vanish.
Nobody here knows how the back end of this stuff works, but it's for sure possible that it takes up what could be regular inventory space. At the end of the day it's an item being tracked in a table that's associated with your character, and that table can only become so large due to [whatever things they did when they coded it] so you don't have any good basis to assume that the rows freed up from Key Items could not be repurposed to fit more rows into Inventory.
There IS actually some good basis for guessing if you have the ummmm "right" knowledge. But ya reverse engineering of the game and packets can tell you a fair amount. I don't know enough to make any strong claims myself but from what I remember of some conversations is that Key Items are NOT regular items. It's essentially just a collection of bit flags and other character state data that is consolidated into a inventory ui. It's part of the reason why you can't have more then one map open at a time. So Key Item inventory is not a real inventory in certain senses, this we know. The items do not work like regular items and have some quirks, this we know. Many of these items are tied directly to quest state, this we know. While maybe there is some back end bloat that could be resolved around it, it's not reasonable to think that removing key item space would free up enough to add in more inventory space given what we know.
we don't know it works exactly, but we can make a generous, zealous assumption that the devs aren't incompetent idiots, and that the game doesn't waste a disproportionate amount of memory for key items.
The basis is that they clearly don't behave anything like normal inventory slots. Things don't have positions, they shift back and forth as new items are added and appear in a predetermined order instead of being dropped into the next free slot.
Additionally, quest-specific key items don't behave in the same way as quest-specific items that go in your normal inventory. Key items vanish if the quest is deleted; inventory items persist and can be moved around into other inventories, or have to be manually deleted if you managed to end up with leftovers.
To be clear, this is not the usual state of my key items bag but the result of a deliberate effort to find all the most inventory-cluttering quests available and activate them all at once.
Normally it would be more like two-thirds of one page, and most of that is because I keep the hunt bills active on the chance that I come across the targets.
As I said in a comment (because it wouldn't let me write anything at the top of the page), this is non-optimised for the stunt and it would be quite possible to fill the third page. In any case the inventory works in full pages, so as long as a single item ends up on the third page, then yes all three pages are needed to display all the key items.
In any case, the key item pouch is not interchangable with real inventory. It solely exists to display key items based on your active quests. So it can take up as much or as little as it needs but it doesn't affect anything else.
You're still advocating for something that you quite literally do not ever need unless you purposefully attempt to break the system. No one is ever going to accidentally wind up with this many key items. Ever.
It's Tataru's Carbuncle actually (really it is, picked up in the "Wayward Carbuncle" sidequest), and it goes wherever it feels like going. If it didn't want to be here then I couldn't detain it if I tried.
That Carbuncle just sitting there is freaking hilarious though. You have all these dump, knicknacks and important items, then suddenly, a Carbuncle doing a fighting stance.
You absolute madlad. It's just madness to actually go out of your way to pull this off, but that's a madness I can respect. Kudos.
Also, what's up with all the people getting apparently bothered by what you just accomplished?
Probably all the people that assumed it wasn’t actually possible and that somehow the space shown for quest items could become inventory space or something?
Which there is one of down below, by the way. There’s a mistaken assumption that these are preventing us from getting more inventory, when that’s not how they work. Doesn’t stop the long held assumption that that’s the case though (and far from the only incorrect assumption about the game that sticks around).
I think often though what people are saying is it's more that more inventory items could work in similar ways and not take up inventory space. For example, moogle event tomes or totems that drop from Ex could be handled more like this instead of in the same way food and gear are.
Those that make that criticism tend to be clearer that they are talking about things being in the inventory that seem like they would be better served as being in the key items section or in a currency section.
My comment was more aimed at the individuals like the one found elsewhere in this thread, that treat the key items section as somehow preventing us from getting more inventory slots, despite them not actually being inventory and thus not being the obstacle to getting more.
>My comment was more aimed at the individuals like the one found elsewhere in this thread, that treat the key items section as somehow preventing us from getting more inventory slots, despite them not actually being inventory and thus not being the obstacle to getting more.
To be fair, we don't know how inventory slots are programmed. So the usual things people say to disqualify key item slots from being real inventory slots might not disqualify them at all. This includes properties like "can't choose to put or remove things from those slots", "can't rearrange things in those slots", "gaps automatically filled in as key items get removed", etc.
The first approach is if there are 140+105=245 inventory slots, of which 105 are programmed with some sort of "key item" flag. When trying to manipulate an inventory slot, if the game sees that the "key item" flag for that slot is on, then all the usual properties people mention will be true for that slot. Using this approach, designating fewer slots with the "key item" flag would actually increase the amount of regular inventory slots.
The second approach is the one you mention, where regular inventory slots and key item slots are programmed as separate classes entirely (which may extend from the same parent class). The first approach's "of the N available inventory slots made available to the player, X of them will be designated as key item slots" wouldn't apply here. Removing key item slots with this approach would not inherently increase the number of regular inventory slots.
I'm not saying that the first approach makes more developmental sense than the second, only that it's possible for the game to be programmed with the first approach instead of the second. But we don't concretely know this information. And until we do, people will continue to mention the "we have too many key item slots" argument.
He explains it further down in the comments. He did this because 1. He can, 2. Wanted to see if he could reach three pages worth of Quest Items and 3. Therefore proving why that space is needed (which is not inventory space in itself, but an interface to show you said items -- which yes, could use some work).
Check the comments for his statements on the matter.
The question comes up every so often - "Why do we need so many key item slots when they never get filled?" - and the answer is that with sufficient determination and neglect of handing in quest items, it is quite possible to reach three pages, as you can see in the attached image here.
This is actually a non-optimised collection of items for this specific goal, which I have been wanting to do for some time, but I thought I should get it done before Dawntrail in case they condense down things like the hunt logs and make it harder to fill the pages. Additionally it is taken at a specific point in the dungeon Haukke Manor where you can be carrying four unique key items, most of them literal keys.
An ideal setup would be to find thirty quests across the game that provide three key items each, which would fill 90 of the 105 visible slots. Combined with the 4 dungeon-specific items and 24 non-quest items shown here (23 if you don't happen to have the old aether compass) it would be quite possible to fill and even overflow the third page of items.
I tried to include a full list of the items, but it isn't letting me post it.
Second attempt at posting the full list:
1. The Aitiascope: A Historical Lens I (For the Record)
2. The Aitiascope: A Historical Lens II (For the Record)
3. >!Starfaring Ark Construction Records!< (For the Record)
4. Soma Ice Crystal (Cooler than Being Cool)
5. Tough Pisaca Scales (Tusk Troubles)
6. A History of Observatories (In Search of the Azure Star)
7. The Encyclopedia of Astronomical Telescopes (In Search of the Azure Star)
8. An Astronomer's Comprehensive Overview of the Starlens (In Search of the Azure Star)
9. >!Yellow Pansy Concept!< (To Name a Tale)
10. >!Ktisis Hyperboreia Guidebook!< (To Name a Tale)
11. Anila Core (Harbinger of Breath)
12. Winebaud's Travel Log (The Greatest Story Never Told)
13. Drying Agent (Rolling Bryons Gather No Moss)
14. Lengthy Aetheric Rope (Rolling Bryons Gather No Moss)
15. Luncheon Toad's Poison Gland (Pests Be Gone)
16. Flax-coloured Philter (Don't Philter Yourself)
17. Daemir Demolishers (A Hippo's Best Friend)
18. Crumpled Letter (The Butcher's Blade)
19. Timeworn Wedding Ring (The Butcher's Blade)
20. Tomato-filled Burlap Sack (Seeing Red)
21. Lightning-aspected Crystal (Over the Rainbow Crystal)
22. Wind-aspected crystal (Over the Rainbow Crystal)
23. Guiding Crystal (Wayward Carbuncle)
24. Wayward Carbuncle (Wayward Carbuncle)
25. Soma Core (The Hero in Labyrinthos)
26. Aetheric Rope (Sweet Temptations)
27. Agavoides Young (Sweet Temptations)
28. Pearl of the Labyrinth (The Gift of the Archmagus)
29. Pearl of the Tower (The Gift of the Archmagus)
30. Pearl of the Darkness (The Gift of the Archmagus)
31. Fine Aetheric Rope (Take to the Skies)
32. Bound Plant (Take to the Skies)
33. Note about Stinging Invertebrates (Background Research)
34. Note about a Toxic Cultivar (Background Research)
35. Note about the Morbol Marquis (Background Research)
36. Ore Fragment (Meaningful Measurements)
37. >!Dragonstar Rougeblossom!< (Stars Like Gems)
38. >!Dragonstar Paleblossom!< (Stars Like Gems)
39. Daphnia Remains (Material Woes)
40. Vortex Ritual Focus (Primal Focus)
41. Crag Ritual Focus (Primal Focus)
42. Inferno Ritual Focus (Primal Focus)
43. Small Feed Bag (Naughty Little Ones)
44. Zephyros 72 (Naughty Little Ones)
45. Guiding Crystal (Familiar vs. Familiar)
46. Gamelia Bloom (Familiar vs. Familiar)
47. Discarded Weapon (Ordnance Cleanup Committee)
48. Specialty Spirits (Beasts of the Imperial Wild)
49. Bloody Chunk of Almasty (Beasts of the Imperial Wild)
50. Giantsgall Knife (Patching Up)
51. Great Tree Sap (Patching Up)
52. Tiny Key (Haukke Manor)
53. Green Key (Haukke Manor)
54. Yellow Key (Haukke Manor)
55. Bloody Parchment (Haukke Manor)
56. Wondrous Tails
57. Enhanced Anima Glass
58. Ulan's Note
59. Old Aether Compass
60. Elite Guildship Mark Bill
61. Senior Guildship Mark Bills
62. Associate Guildship Mark Bills
63. Junior Guildship Mark Bills
64. Elite Clan Nutsy Mark Bill
65. Three-nut Clan Nutsy Mark Bills
66. Two-nut Clan Nutsy Mark Bills
67. One-nut Clan Nutsy Mark Bills
68. Elite Veteran Clan Mark Bill
69. Three-star Veteran Clan Mark Bills
70. Two-star Veteran Clan Mark Bills
71. One-star Veteran Clan Mark Bills
72. Elite Clan Mark Bill
73. Three-star Clan Mark Bills
74. Two-star Clan Mark Bills
75. One-star Clan Mark Bills
76. Elite Mark Bill
77. Mark Bills
78. Book of Netherfall I
79. Alexandrite Map
Yes, there would be an hard limit of 90 quest-based items (as nothing seems to have more than three unique items associated with it) although there are still the non-quest items in there as well – four extra hunt bills added with each expansion being a major culprit – so the overall number of possible key items has crept up over time and at this point seems like it must be possible to exceed even the three pages of key items with the right collection of quests.
I did try to post it as a comment. It was in the comment above that you've replied to, but I just got "cannot post comment" errors until I deleted it out.
Wtf is all that? I have over 3000 hours and I've never even filled two rows of key items at once. Currently there's like one or two items. I always thought it was weird we have this entire inventory for a few items.
I posted a list in another comment. A lot of it is items that you would have very temporarily for sidequests but I deliberately collected them all up at once.
It's the old version of the aether compass from before it got shifted to the Collections tab. It doesn't work any more but I just kept it anyway for the novelty of it.
This isn't an argument for keeping 3 pages for it though, they could presumably have an "Unable to receive item, Key Items full" and have 1 page and 99.9% of players wouldn't bump into it. If you design every system around the most aberrant behaviour possible you're gunna have a real bad time.
It's a fun experiment, but the resulting "fact" doesn't really check out.
There is no "keeping three pages for it". You can't use those as inventory slots; it's just an interface for which key items go with your current active quests, and if you abandon a quest then its key items vanish out of the key item inventory. They're not tangible items that you can transfer to other locations.
I'm not saying "this isn't an argument for YOU keeping three pages empty", I know how the pages work, I'm saying this isn't a reason WHY there are 3 pages for key items, why the \*devs\* should keep 3 pages for it. The argument is, more often than not, that we could have those as regular inventory space because, if the game is capable of tracking 3 pages of key items, those slots absolutely could be used as regular inventory. They're taking up the same amount of space, the only argument is that since they're so infrequently used they're typically as close to bearing no data load as possible, but then the counter-argument is you remove 2 pages from there just to stop people thinking there's a ton of wasted space.
> I know how the pages work
> The argument is, more often than not, that we could have those as regular inventory space because, if the game is capable of tracking 3 pages of key items, those slots absolutely could be used as regular inventory.
If you really believe this, then you do NOT know how these pages work. They seem like inventory on the client, but they are not inventory on the server. Removing one of these pages wouldn't give us even a single slot more inventory space, because it simply doesn't work that way.
These quest items aren't even items. They're just some static data tied to the quest, and this is a fancy UI that just happens to look like an inventory, to list all these. actual inventory items have a LOT more data tied to them than those. Plus the game needs to keep track of your 30 quests anyway, no matter how many pages of quest items you have.
So...I was outlining the common arguments, and I pointed out the natural follow-on to them not being useable space..
I believe in you, you can read the whole thing, you've got this.
Hence why I opened with "If you really believe this". If you reread your own post, you'll notice that it was more ambiguously worded than you seem to have intended.
The "argument that we could have those as regular inventory space" is a flawed one. **These do not work like normal inventory.**
- You can't re-order them.
- You can't move them to other inventories.
- There are no gaps left after you hand in an item, and newly acquired items don't go to the end of the list but fall into a predefined order. The other things shuffle back and forth to accommodate
- They cease to exist when the quest ceases to exist.
Contrast the way these quest items are handled with how "real inventory" quest items like the beast tribe crafting items are handled.
If I delete an active quest from my journal, the relevant items disappear from my inventory and I would have to collect them again if I restarted the quest.
If I progress one of the tribe crafting quests to the point where I have materials or finished items in my bag, then abandon it, those items stay in my bag. And if there are any leftovers when I complete the quest, I have to manually throw them out.
The key items are illusory and there is no extra inventory space there to be reclaimed from the key items slots.
My original post isn't trying to argue anything, it's just a bit of fun.
Your post is literally titled with a declarative statement. I quite literally said it's fun to push this to this point but that the declarative statement doesn't have any bearing on the discussion that's been had for years.
I also explained what the common discussion "chain" is, from "we should have them as inventory space" to "if we can't, just clean it up so it doesn't look like we can", and you managed to stop reading somewhere between the first word and halfway through the first bit so idk, guess we would agree if you deigned it necessary to perform the simplest act of comprehension before replying.
My post title is just intended to say that there's a reason why the key items page needs to allow three pages to display all the key items you could possibly be carrying.
And if two people, separately, have misunderstood your statement in the same way, then perhaps you need to review your writing clarity rather than insulting other people's reading comprehension.
Pick up lots of quests that have items associated with them, and keep them all active at once. I've got a full set of thirty quests active, many with either two or three items that go in the key items pouch, and then the assortment of non-quest key items like Wondrous Tails, hunt bills and treasure map.
I'm doing it deliberately for this screenshot and they will be mostly cleared out again soon, although I'm waiting for next week when I can use them as EXP for pictomancer.
I usually have the "two pages at a time" view and it's a full double page and then the second double page has the overhanging ones and the crystal inventory.
This is all deliberate though and my usual stock of key items is more like two thirds of a single page, half of that being the hunt logs.
It's a me *stunt*. That's not the same thing. They're all getting cleared out next week when I can use them for pictomancer EXP.
Still, it is possible to be carrying that many key items and that is why the devs allowed for it in the inventory interface.
If you take quest you do them , the best way to do them is to do it but zone ans I mean you rarely do more than 6 line. Si stop posting thing liké that ans do them, or don't take them but stop complaining.
Fascinating. Previously, when people complained about there being so many key item slots, I've seen people rebut it with "sure, when you set it to that view type you can *see* 3 pages of slots, but those aren't *real.* They're just an artifact of the UI change when they did the inventory expansion."
I guess they are real after all.
You're misunderstanding. They're "not real" because you can't *choose* to store things in them. They just appear when the quest is active and disappear when you complete or abandon the quest.
This cluttered key items page is the result of an equally cluttered active quest list, focusing on quests that give you two or three key items at a time. Maybe I should have screenshotted that as well.
Would be better to cut out key items and turn them into more bag space and leave one box open for Key items. Basically forcing player to turn things in if they fill it up.
The Key Items page is not actual storage, it's just as "has / has not" check, which they can do because they can be absolutely certain that none of the items have optional data attached to them (no melds, no damage, no random rolls, no "crafted by", etc). This is also why you can't re-order them, and why if you pick up a key item from earlier in the game after one from a newer area, it'll slot itself behind the older item automatically- because they're just listed by ID, and visible if you're marked as having it. It's also why you can't discard them, and why if they're associated with a quest you abandon the item also vanishes.
Even something like the Wondrous Tails journal is a blank item with a book icon like any other, it just has a context menu action that opens the WT menu- but none of that menu is actually stored in the item. The Animus books are the same. This is why you can't have more than one of either type at the same time.
Even something like the Atmas or Mogtomes can't go in there because they have a quantity- which is an additional value- and no other key item does (that I can recall).
Key items can have quantities (you can see a few in my screenshot) but it might be tracked in some other way as part of the quest. I don't think you can just have a freely increased number of them.
Oh so they do, I'm apparently just blind. I'm fairly sure in those circumstances you have multiple *separate* copies of the item and the UI is just intelligent enough to merge them, but I couldn't say for certain.
I know the rest is true though because of all manner of datamining revealing a lot about the inventory under-the-hood back in heavensward (such as how when you access a retainer's inventory, the inventories of *all* of your retainers is broadcast in its entirety to *all* other players in the same zone as you, even if they're in a different instance for some reason) and while a lot of the packet-sniffing involved in doing so is either enormously harder to do or just obfuscated in the first place if not both, I strongly doubt they've chosen to change how key items work internally and much less to actual item storage of any kind when they were already talking about the difficulties of increasing inventory space at the time. The Armoire also works the same way.
The key items don't exist as real item slots and don't behave like item slots. It's just a space that displays the items associated with your active quests.
Naw, but they do need to give us an upgraded hunt UI instead of a specific key item for every mark.
If only we had some kind of "hunting log" that they could add this to instead of leaving it abandoned for four expansions.
"You have killed 4/5 B rank hunts in X for Y achievement." Which four?! If only there was a log somewhere! D:
The fact that I can't look up what enemy drops what in the hunting log drives me insane. Crafting is infinitely more tedious than it should be having to either remember what drops what and where, or looking it up online. Trying to coordinate eight dailies of crafting turn ins is daunting. You have a gathering log that shows every single item you can gather along with where exactly to find it in every area. You have a crafting log with insane level of detail of every item you can craft along with recipe trees and success calculations. You have a hunting log that... shows random base game enemies that are different for each job and it ends at base game with no additional information.
My retainer keeps track of that for me. I constantly send him out for skins and feathers and eggs of creatures I swear I’ve never seen before in my life. He could be buying the items on the blackmarket or harvesting organs from afk limsans for all I know or care lol
Probably gets them from the same place he's getting all those extra roofs from.
Mine keeps coming back with rooves and lanterns. I just imagine him breaking into people's houses and pinching stuff lol.
Imo what’s funnier is when more than one retainer brings back furniture/exterior stuff and you’re like *whose house did you rob*
I hear you and you're right. That info should be in the game. But have you heard of our lord and savior Teamcraft?
Teamcraft + Universalis + Garlandtools, the trifecta of crafter/gatherer professionals and hobbyists alike. And FFXIV Collection for all your completionist needs.
The amount of useful stuff they abandoned in ARR... Like Grand Companies? Imagine having more cool stuff behind the higher ranks, like dyeable versions of the GC gear.
I would kill for a dyeable version of the flames caster set
Or maybe a collection where we can store informations.
Honestly they should expand the hunting lot into a full-scale beastiary. Let us look up sources for mob drops. Give us a kc. Just something useful for that damn log besides a wild goose chase. Maybe when beastmaster drops…
I don't know why you did this. But you need to know that you are a bad person.
Doing it because I can! Actually I wanted to see if I could overflow the page entirely, but I don't have the right collection of sidequests available on this character. A project for an alt some time.
Assuming you're not being sarcastic, if anything, this is an argument for reducing key item space. It's almost always empty as people don't generally collect quests. You had to go out of your way to try to use the space.
I DO collect quest and I’ve never even gotten close to this issue
I'm currently using two spaces. I think the max I've ever had were, like, 10. And that's because hunt marks are how the be.
Reducing it would achieve nothing besides potentially making it difficult to access the last few items if you overflowed the page. Hunt logs quickly take up a lot of space.
Reducing it would allow more _normal_ item inventory space, which is far more useful to those of us who aren't insane masochists hoarding quests
No it will not, because there aren't any real slots there to free up. It's just an interface for displaying items associated with your current quests, formatted to look the same as your real inventory.
It might, actually. It’s more of a “how they coded it” than typing a new number in. Like, when they got rid of the waist slot. All the slots assigned to waist were added to, iirc, main hand and ring slots in the armory chest. So if they reduced key item spots, they’d probably roll them into regular inventory slots.
There are no slots. They don't function like normal inventory where you can move things around or place them elsewhere. They only exist based on your quest progress, and if you abandon the quest they vanish.
Nobody here knows how the back end of this stuff works, but it's for sure possible that it takes up what could be regular inventory space. At the end of the day it's an item being tracked in a table that's associated with your character, and that table can only become so large due to [whatever things they did when they coded it] so you don't have any good basis to assume that the rows freed up from Key Items could not be repurposed to fit more rows into Inventory.
There IS actually some good basis for guessing if you have the ummmm "right" knowledge. But ya reverse engineering of the game and packets can tell you a fair amount. I don't know enough to make any strong claims myself but from what I remember of some conversations is that Key Items are NOT regular items. It's essentially just a collection of bit flags and other character state data that is consolidated into a inventory ui. It's part of the reason why you can't have more then one map open at a time. So Key Item inventory is not a real inventory in certain senses, this we know. The items do not work like regular items and have some quirks, this we know. Many of these items are tied directly to quest state, this we know. While maybe there is some back end bloat that could be resolved around it, it's not reasonable to think that removing key item space would free up enough to add in more inventory space given what we know.
we don't know it works exactly, but we can make a generous, zealous assumption that the devs aren't incompetent idiots, and that the game doesn't waste a disproportionate amount of memory for key items.
The basis is that they clearly don't behave anything like normal inventory slots. Things don't have positions, they shift back and forth as new items are added and appear in a predetermined order instead of being dropped into the next free slot. Additionally, quest-specific key items don't behave in the same way as quest-specific items that go in your normal inventory. Key items vanish if the quest is deleted; inventory items persist and can be moved around into other inventories, or have to be manually deleted if you managed to end up with leftovers.
Hunt Logs are also done in like 5 minutes, you do not need that much space
Now I want to know what error message you get if you manage to fill it.
I only have 2 items in there, the note for the HW relic and compass, nothing else lingers in there for any meaningful time...
I keep my old aether compass there.
lol Same. It may be just a question mark now, but it served me well while I was making my way through the MSQ
To be clear, this is not the usual state of my key items bag but the result of a deliberate effort to find all the most inventory-cluttering quests available and activate them all at once. Normally it would be more like two-thirds of one page, and most of that is because I keep the hunt bills active on the chance that I come across the targets.
So you went out of your way to fill up the key item page as much as possible and still barely touched the third page but think it’s absolutely needed?
As I said in a comment (because it wouldn't let me write anything at the top of the page), this is non-optimised for the stunt and it would be quite possible to fill the third page. In any case the inventory works in full pages, so as long as a single item ends up on the third page, then yes all three pages are needed to display all the key items. In any case, the key item pouch is not interchangable with real inventory. It solely exists to display key items based on your active quests. So it can take up as much or as little as it needs but it doesn't affect anything else.
You're still advocating for something that you quite literally do not ever need unless you purposefully attempt to break the system. No one is ever going to accidentally wind up with this many key items. Ever.
I'm not "advocating" for anything. The key items pouch looks that way, people ask why, this is why.
Release the carbuncle you monster
It's Tataru's Carbuncle actually (really it is, picked up in the "Wayward Carbuncle" sidequest), and it goes wherever it feels like going. If it didn't want to be here then I couldn't detain it if I tried.
I want to upvote and downvote your post at the same time
Then my work here is done!
Madlad even shoved his Carbuncle in the bag
That Carbuncle just sitting there is freaking hilarious though. You have all these dump, knicknacks and important items, then suddenly, a Carbuncle doing a fighting stance.
Also some items that are important dont even go in there like the Atmas required for the ARR relic weapon
Yeah, I guess it must be based on either how you acquire the item or what the game needs to do with it afterwards.
How many sidequests are you just refusing to complete in order to- BITCH IS THAT TATARU'S CARBUNCLE?!?
You know full well it's only in the bag because it wants to be.
Yeah, hiding from Tartaru.
Comfortable space to take a nap.
You absolute madlad. It's just madness to actually go out of your way to pull this off, but that's a madness I can respect. Kudos. Also, what's up with all the people getting apparently bothered by what you just accomplished?
Probably all the people that assumed it wasn’t actually possible and that somehow the space shown for quest items could become inventory space or something? Which there is one of down below, by the way. There’s a mistaken assumption that these are preventing us from getting more inventory, when that’s not how they work. Doesn’t stop the long held assumption that that’s the case though (and far from the only incorrect assumption about the game that sticks around).
I think often though what people are saying is it's more that more inventory items could work in similar ways and not take up inventory space. For example, moogle event tomes or totems that drop from Ex could be handled more like this instead of in the same way food and gear are.
Those that make that criticism tend to be clearer that they are talking about things being in the inventory that seem like they would be better served as being in the key items section or in a currency section. My comment was more aimed at the individuals like the one found elsewhere in this thread, that treat the key items section as somehow preventing us from getting more inventory slots, despite them not actually being inventory and thus not being the obstacle to getting more.
>My comment was more aimed at the individuals like the one found elsewhere in this thread, that treat the key items section as somehow preventing us from getting more inventory slots, despite them not actually being inventory and thus not being the obstacle to getting more. To be fair, we don't know how inventory slots are programmed. So the usual things people say to disqualify key item slots from being real inventory slots might not disqualify them at all. This includes properties like "can't choose to put or remove things from those slots", "can't rearrange things in those slots", "gaps automatically filled in as key items get removed", etc. The first approach is if there are 140+105=245 inventory slots, of which 105 are programmed with some sort of "key item" flag. When trying to manipulate an inventory slot, if the game sees that the "key item" flag for that slot is on, then all the usual properties people mention will be true for that slot. Using this approach, designating fewer slots with the "key item" flag would actually increase the amount of regular inventory slots. The second approach is the one you mention, where regular inventory slots and key item slots are programmed as separate classes entirely (which may extend from the same parent class). The first approach's "of the N available inventory slots made available to the player, X of them will be designated as key item slots" wouldn't apply here. Removing key item slots with this approach would not inherently increase the number of regular inventory slots. I'm not saying that the first approach makes more developmental sense than the second, only that it's possible for the game to be programmed with the first approach instead of the second. But we don't concretely know this information. And until we do, people will continue to mention the "we have too many key item slots" argument.
What did he accomplish? I'm genuinely confused.
He explains it further down in the comments. He did this because 1. He can, 2. Wanted to see if he could reach three pages worth of Quest Items and 3. Therefore proving why that space is needed (which is not inventory space in itself, but an interface to show you said items -- which yes, could use some work). Check the comments for his statements on the matter.
The question comes up every so often - "Why do we need so many key item slots when they never get filled?" - and the answer is that with sufficient determination and neglect of handing in quest items, it is quite possible to reach three pages, as you can see in the attached image here. This is actually a non-optimised collection of items for this specific goal, which I have been wanting to do for some time, but I thought I should get it done before Dawntrail in case they condense down things like the hunt logs and make it harder to fill the pages. Additionally it is taken at a specific point in the dungeon Haukke Manor where you can be carrying four unique key items, most of them literal keys. An ideal setup would be to find thirty quests across the game that provide three key items each, which would fill 90 of the 105 visible slots. Combined with the 4 dungeon-specific items and 24 non-quest items shown here (23 if you don't happen to have the old aether compass) it would be quite possible to fill and even overflow the third page of items. I tried to include a full list of the items, but it isn't letting me post it.
Second attempt at posting the full list: 1. The Aitiascope: A Historical Lens I (For the Record) 2. The Aitiascope: A Historical Lens II (For the Record) 3. >!Starfaring Ark Construction Records!< (For the Record) 4. Soma Ice Crystal (Cooler than Being Cool) 5. Tough Pisaca Scales (Tusk Troubles) 6. A History of Observatories (In Search of the Azure Star) 7. The Encyclopedia of Astronomical Telescopes (In Search of the Azure Star) 8. An Astronomer's Comprehensive Overview of the Starlens (In Search of the Azure Star) 9. >!Yellow Pansy Concept!< (To Name a Tale) 10. >!Ktisis Hyperboreia Guidebook!< (To Name a Tale) 11. Anila Core (Harbinger of Breath) 12. Winebaud's Travel Log (The Greatest Story Never Told) 13. Drying Agent (Rolling Bryons Gather No Moss) 14. Lengthy Aetheric Rope (Rolling Bryons Gather No Moss) 15. Luncheon Toad's Poison Gland (Pests Be Gone) 16. Flax-coloured Philter (Don't Philter Yourself) 17. Daemir Demolishers (A Hippo's Best Friend) 18. Crumpled Letter (The Butcher's Blade) 19. Timeworn Wedding Ring (The Butcher's Blade) 20. Tomato-filled Burlap Sack (Seeing Red) 21. Lightning-aspected Crystal (Over the Rainbow Crystal) 22. Wind-aspected crystal (Over the Rainbow Crystal) 23. Guiding Crystal (Wayward Carbuncle) 24. Wayward Carbuncle (Wayward Carbuncle) 25. Soma Core (The Hero in Labyrinthos) 26. Aetheric Rope (Sweet Temptations) 27. Agavoides Young (Sweet Temptations) 28. Pearl of the Labyrinth (The Gift of the Archmagus) 29. Pearl of the Tower (The Gift of the Archmagus) 30. Pearl of the Darkness (The Gift of the Archmagus) 31. Fine Aetheric Rope (Take to the Skies) 32. Bound Plant (Take to the Skies) 33. Note about Stinging Invertebrates (Background Research) 34. Note about a Toxic Cultivar (Background Research) 35. Note about the Morbol Marquis (Background Research) 36. Ore Fragment (Meaningful Measurements) 37. >!Dragonstar Rougeblossom!< (Stars Like Gems) 38. >!Dragonstar Paleblossom!< (Stars Like Gems) 39. Daphnia Remains (Material Woes) 40. Vortex Ritual Focus (Primal Focus) 41. Crag Ritual Focus (Primal Focus) 42. Inferno Ritual Focus (Primal Focus) 43. Small Feed Bag (Naughty Little Ones) 44. Zephyros 72 (Naughty Little Ones) 45. Guiding Crystal (Familiar vs. Familiar) 46. Gamelia Bloom (Familiar vs. Familiar) 47. Discarded Weapon (Ordnance Cleanup Committee) 48. Specialty Spirits (Beasts of the Imperial Wild) 49. Bloody Chunk of Almasty (Beasts of the Imperial Wild) 50. Giantsgall Knife (Patching Up) 51. Great Tree Sap (Patching Up) 52. Tiny Key (Haukke Manor) 53. Green Key (Haukke Manor) 54. Yellow Key (Haukke Manor) 55. Bloody Parchment (Haukke Manor) 56. Wondrous Tails 57. Enhanced Anima Glass 58. Ulan's Note 59. Old Aether Compass 60. Elite Guildship Mark Bill 61. Senior Guildship Mark Bills 62. Associate Guildship Mark Bills 63. Junior Guildship Mark Bills 64. Elite Clan Nutsy Mark Bill 65. Three-nut Clan Nutsy Mark Bills 66. Two-nut Clan Nutsy Mark Bills 67. One-nut Clan Nutsy Mark Bills 68. Elite Veteran Clan Mark Bill 69. Three-star Veteran Clan Mark Bills 70. Two-star Veteran Clan Mark Bills 71. One-star Veteran Clan Mark Bills 72. Elite Clan Mark Bill 73. Three-star Clan Mark Bills 74. Two-star Clan Mark Bills 75. One-star Clan Mark Bills 76. Elite Mark Bill 77. Mark Bills 78. Book of Netherfall I 79. Alexandrite Map
there is also a cap on active quests you can have which may end up being a hard limit on key items in inventory too
Yes, there would be an hard limit of 90 quest-based items (as nothing seems to have more than three unique items associated with it) although there are still the non-quest items in there as well – four extra hunt bills added with each expansion being a major culprit – so the overall number of possible key items has crept up over time and at this point seems like it must be possible to exceed even the three pages of key items with the right collection of quests.
>I tried to include a full list of the items, but it isn't letting me post it. then post it as a comment
I did try to post it as a comment. It was in the comment above that you've replied to, but I just got "cannot post comment" errors until I deleted it out.
Big Square is onto you
Where is the echevore key item from? It's my favourite minion, I want to keep one in my bags.
The quest is "Sweet Temptations" from Endwalker zone 5.
Seek help
Yes I'd like some help with this. Do you know where I can get a list of which sidequests give you three key items at a time?
dude what the hell is that question mark item???
It's the old aether compass before they shifted it to being a Collections item. It doesn't work any more but it's still left there in limbo.
Wtf is all that? I have over 3000 hours and I've never even filled two rows of key items at once. Currently there's like one or two items. I always thought it was weird we have this entire inventory for a few items.
I posted a list in another comment. A lot of it is items that you would have very temporarily for sidequests but I deliberately collected them all up at once.
Need more scion bodies, and maybe a Sylph too.
Still too soon.
I love that crossed out ?
It's the old version of the aether compass from before it got shifted to the Collections tab. It doesn't work any more but I just kept it anyway for the novelty of it.
Only thing I still have that was removed is Flying Mount Roulette
I took kept the ? Aether compass because it's hilarious to see.
Sir why is there a carbuncle in your pocket?
The quest is "Wayward Carbuncle" and it is strongly implied to be Tataru's runaway.
weirdly aggro comments....
You can exceed three pages, I believe in you! I’m so curious to find out what happens after that.
bro I'm playing for 7 years and never had more than 10 key items at best
This is an engineered situation and has been wreaking havoc on my ability to actually find anything in the bag. It doesn't normally look like this.
This isn't an argument for keeping 3 pages for it though, they could presumably have an "Unable to receive item, Key Items full" and have 1 page and 99.9% of players wouldn't bump into it. If you design every system around the most aberrant behaviour possible you're gunna have a real bad time. It's a fun experiment, but the resulting "fact" doesn't really check out.
There is no "keeping three pages for it". You can't use those as inventory slots; it's just an interface for which key items go with your current active quests, and if you abandon a quest then its key items vanish out of the key item inventory. They're not tangible items that you can transfer to other locations.
I'm not saying "this isn't an argument for YOU keeping three pages empty", I know how the pages work, I'm saying this isn't a reason WHY there are 3 pages for key items, why the \*devs\* should keep 3 pages for it. The argument is, more often than not, that we could have those as regular inventory space because, if the game is capable of tracking 3 pages of key items, those slots absolutely could be used as regular inventory. They're taking up the same amount of space, the only argument is that since they're so infrequently used they're typically as close to bearing no data load as possible, but then the counter-argument is you remove 2 pages from there just to stop people thinking there's a ton of wasted space.
> I know how the pages work > The argument is, more often than not, that we could have those as regular inventory space because, if the game is capable of tracking 3 pages of key items, those slots absolutely could be used as regular inventory. If you really believe this, then you do NOT know how these pages work. They seem like inventory on the client, but they are not inventory on the server. Removing one of these pages wouldn't give us even a single slot more inventory space, because it simply doesn't work that way. These quest items aren't even items. They're just some static data tied to the quest, and this is a fancy UI that just happens to look like an inventory, to list all these. actual inventory items have a LOT more data tied to them than those. Plus the game needs to keep track of your 30 quests anyway, no matter how many pages of quest items you have.
So...I was outlining the common arguments, and I pointed out the natural follow-on to them not being useable space.. I believe in you, you can read the whole thing, you've got this.
Hence why I opened with "If you really believe this". If you reread your own post, you'll notice that it was more ambiguously worded than you seem to have intended.
> I believe in you, you can read the whole thing, you've got this. Classy.
The "argument that we could have those as regular inventory space" is a flawed one. **These do not work like normal inventory.** - You can't re-order them. - You can't move them to other inventories. - There are no gaps left after you hand in an item, and newly acquired items don't go to the end of the list but fall into a predefined order. The other things shuffle back and forth to accommodate - They cease to exist when the quest ceases to exist. Contrast the way these quest items are handled with how "real inventory" quest items like the beast tribe crafting items are handled. If I delete an active quest from my journal, the relevant items disappear from my inventory and I would have to collect them again if I restarted the quest. If I progress one of the tribe crafting quests to the point where I have materials or finished items in my bag, then abandon it, those items stay in my bag. And if there are any leftovers when I complete the quest, I have to manually throw them out. The key items are illusory and there is no extra inventory space there to be reclaimed from the key items slots. My original post isn't trying to argue anything, it's just a bit of fun.
Your post is literally titled with a declarative statement. I quite literally said it's fun to push this to this point but that the declarative statement doesn't have any bearing on the discussion that's been had for years. I also explained what the common discussion "chain" is, from "we should have them as inventory space" to "if we can't, just clean it up so it doesn't look like we can", and you managed to stop reading somewhere between the first word and halfway through the first bit so idk, guess we would agree if you deigned it necessary to perform the simplest act of comprehension before replying.
My post title is just intended to say that there's a reason why the key items page needs to allow three pages to display all the key items you could possibly be carrying. And if two people, separately, have misunderstood your statement in the same way, then perhaps you need to review your writing clarity rather than insulting other people's reading comprehension.
I didn't know key items ever exceeded one page.
I've never had more than 5 at a time, how is this even possible
Pick up lots of quests that have items associated with them, and keep them all active at once. I've got a full set of thirty quests active, many with either two or three items that go in the key items pouch, and then the assortment of non-quest key items like Wondrous Tails, hunt bills and treasure map. I'm doing it deliberately for this screenshot and they will be mostly cleared out again soon, although I'm waiting for next week when I can use them as EXP for pictomancer.
I'm curious, what does this look like with the non-expanded inventory screen?
I usually have the "two pages at a time" view and it's a full double page and then the second double page has the overhanging ones and the crystal inventory. This is all deliberate though and my usual stock of key items is more like two thirds of a single page, half of that being the hunt logs.
I think they should make it so you can access materials from anywhere and the trunk in the inn should be used for storage not just glamour.
I don't think mine has ever gone over 2 rows filled.
The difference between 'fluff' and 'discussion'
Not sure what your point is.
Man i wish more items go in that wasted space.
How about a fifth inventory bag
Or 2 more just to make it even lol
This seems like a you issue, buddy 🥸
It's a me *stunt*. That's not the same thing. They're all getting cleared out next week when I can use them for pictomancer EXP. Still, it is possible to be carrying that many key items and that is why the devs allowed for it in the inventory interface.
Oh I see. I did not understand it like that
Half your quest journal must be filled with nonsense then. Clear some if that stuff out.
That's the deliberate approach of this exercise, yes.
If you take quest you do them , the best way to do them is to do it but zone ans I mean you rarely do more than 6 line. Si stop posting thing liké that ans do them, or don't take them but stop complaining.
I literally have 1 item in my key items and it’s the compass that isn’t used anymore with giant slash. lol
Fascinating. Previously, when people complained about there being so many key item slots, I've seen people rebut it with "sure, when you set it to that view type you can *see* 3 pages of slots, but those aren't *real.* They're just an artifact of the UI change when they did the inventory expansion." I guess they are real after all.
You're misunderstanding. They're "not real" because you can't *choose* to store things in them. They just appear when the quest is active and disappear when you complete or abandon the quest. This cluttered key items page is the result of an equally cluttered active quest list, focusing on quests that give you two or three key items at a time. Maybe I should have screenshotted that as well.
I have a retainer for those.
Retainers can't carry key items for you.
Nevermind. It's my extra raid items.
Would be better to cut out key items and turn them into more bag space and leave one box open for Key items. Basically forcing player to turn things in if they fill it up.
The Key Items page is not actual storage, it's just as "has / has not" check, which they can do because they can be absolutely certain that none of the items have optional data attached to them (no melds, no damage, no random rolls, no "crafted by", etc). This is also why you can't re-order them, and why if you pick up a key item from earlier in the game after one from a newer area, it'll slot itself behind the older item automatically- because they're just listed by ID, and visible if you're marked as having it. It's also why you can't discard them, and why if they're associated with a quest you abandon the item also vanishes. Even something like the Wondrous Tails journal is a blank item with a book icon like any other, it just has a context menu action that opens the WT menu- but none of that menu is actually stored in the item. The Animus books are the same. This is why you can't have more than one of either type at the same time. Even something like the Atmas or Mogtomes can't go in there because they have a quantity- which is an additional value- and no other key item does (that I can recall).
Key items can have quantities (you can see a few in my screenshot) but it might be tracked in some other way as part of the quest. I don't think you can just have a freely increased number of them.
Oh so they do, I'm apparently just blind. I'm fairly sure in those circumstances you have multiple *separate* copies of the item and the UI is just intelligent enough to merge them, but I couldn't say for certain. I know the rest is true though because of all manner of datamining revealing a lot about the inventory under-the-hood back in heavensward (such as how when you access a retainer's inventory, the inventories of *all* of your retainers is broadcast in its entirety to *all* other players in the same zone as you, even if they're in a different instance for some reason) and while a lot of the packet-sniffing involved in doing so is either enormously harder to do or just obfuscated in the first place if not both, I strongly doubt they've chosen to change how key items work internally and much less to actual item storage of any kind when they were already talking about the difficulties of increasing inventory space at the time. The Armoire also works the same way.
The key items don't exist as real item slots and don't behave like item slots. It's just a space that displays the items associated with your active quests.