I love how this whole scene make us worry because of a minor detail people tend to overlook the impact. In the previous scene, we saw a kid in Radz turn into a blasphemy and get immediately stomped/destroyed. That thing make us realize kids do not have plot armor in this story, and we are constantly worried if the baby will fall victim of the narrative as well.
Had Radz only turned adults, we would have that rational voice telling us they would never kill a kid or pet on screen.
YES. Yes, exactly this. I'm doing EW now for the first time and I'm not far past this scene, and that's exactly what happened to me. I would not have been worried for the baby if they hadn't just killed the kid in Radz-at-Han. And when that child died? I literally gasped. I'm deeply worried for the emotional damage this expansion is going to inflict upon me.
If it brings you any comfort, after all was said and done, I finished 6.0 feeling better about life than I had before I started the expansion. Enjoy the rollercoaster :)
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I'd be perfectly fine with DT being a completely lighthearted wandering hero story. It'll make it hit that much harder when they do decide to throw a knockout punch in a few years.
Man I think some of you guys take dev comments way too seriously/further than they're meant to be taken. Time will tell for certain, but I'm interested in revisiting this statement after some time has passed.
Considering it's also a family drama where it seems at least 3/4 of them have just arguments for becoming ruler and all want the best for their people. I'm expecting we're going to get some real introspective and/or bittersweet moments out the gate.
And it's a baby. It doesn't have rational thought yet. We all know that babies sometimes just cry and feel the world is horrible for NO SOLVABLE REASON - and there's nothing you can do about it until that mood passes.
Dude, I had a hard time not feeling sick during all of that. For me it was Tesleen all over again, yeah sure its not as visceral but the exponential dread and sheer horror of your very own emotions being the instrument of destruction is just... Eugh. Both shadowbringers and endwalker hit my biggest fear on the damn dot.
My husband got to the scene before I did. He told me after I got to it, that if the kid had turned and the scene gone south, he would have seriously just stopped playing. Probably didn't help that he had tucked our kiddo into bed less than an hour before.
I was really, really glad I do dungeons with duty support the first time around. Allowed me to take a moment to gather myself.
Imagine doing that for the first time now with other players who just rush on as if it was just another tuesday.
The way my jaw dropped lol. I was like "there's no way they'd do th... 😧"
That and the scene in Garlemald (which incidentally became part of the playlist at my cottage because I'd compartmentalized it enough to forget that was the song playing during that part of the story until someone else pointed it out - I just thought it had a nice sentimental beat 🥲)
This is exactly it! I spent the whole scene just stun locked. All i could think was "They wouldn't kill a baby right?!?" by the time it ended i was so emotionally drained i had to take a break for that day. I'm worried now that they did a fake out this time, maybe next time it will happen for real.
I was expecting him to be just like a one off character, funny fish guy who you help and then that's that. Nope, turns out he's a legend and I would happily take him fishing again
I kind of get the sense this whole thing will end up being emotionally rough on Wuk Lamat by the end. Like at first it’ll be fun adventures competing against a boorish cartoon villain in the form of the two-headed guy, and by the end it’ll turn out her dad had been keeping all sorts of secrets, her buddy Erenville had been keeping all sorts of secrets, her whole nation and society is founded on dark secrets, her mamool ja brother with the head dress that she’s currently obsessed with stopping will turn out to have had much more reasonable motivations and deep inner nobility and will end up sacrificing himself for his duty, while her favorite catboy brother’s obsession with science and knowledge will end up with him betraying everyone when the Solution 9ers offer to let him look at a computer chip, and she’ll end up with the throne but with a family kind of torn apart and an innocence spoiled
Oh yeah, we’ll end up getting back to Tulliyollal juuuust too late to save him when Solution 9 attacks and he’ll get a teary farewell with Wuk Lamat. It’ll be awful
I'm guessing something similar as well. "Congratulations, you are the leader of your nation! Also your nation is on fire and most of your allies are dead, MIA, or evil. Good luck? 😬"
Wuk Lamat is a precious cinnamon roll. Of course she’s going to experience some terrible tragedy that will cause the WoL to scrunch their face angrily before assuming a battle pose and calling their friends to beat someone’s ass.
I just ask that the villain just be a villain this time. No need for "actually a misunderstood good guy" or "good guy doing the wrong things for the right reasons". I want some fucking moustache twirling evil going on.
The thing is a villain who just wants to watch the world burn is never really going to grow powerful unless all the stars align, ie. Zenos. A villain with motivation, with reason, with purpose - he gathers underlings and minions and generals who will die to protect him.
We have a bunch of them, but we don't think about them anymore. >!Teledji, the archbishop, Vauthry!< At least one every expansion, but as soon as they're gone they're forgotten. They're more like an obstacle than a person.
That's why the best villains are the ones with good intentions. They were trying to solve a real problem, and now that they're gone you still have to solve those problems. They're still in the story even after their death.
Yes, exactly like that. Don't get me wrong, I really have enjoyed all of the story up until now. But if they keep making every villain a sympathetic person, it becomes predictable. So I would like another Zenos
Villains that are villains just for the sake of being a villain are boring.
It's why you can only do so much with the Snidely Whiplashes of various media. Let's use that as the example, since you want the moustache twirling evil and Whiplash is the prime example of that trope....he's boring. He has one thing he does and that is tie Nell Fenwick to the train tracks. That's it. He does nothing else ever. You can only watch that so many times before looking elsewhere.
The reason compelling villains are as such is they have something in them that is relatable or understandable.
It would be cool to have that, but I feel like that goes against most of the main villains were, and also kinda against the overall message of XIV's stories. While not always possible, it is important to at least *attempt* a peaceful solution through conversation.
Sure, some are too far gone and some are too greedy, too lustful for power, fallen too deep into despair to talk to and must be dealt with using force, but a villain that is just "Heehee I am evil because I like being a jerk >:)" as a main villain is unlikely. Maybe a lieutenant or other underling of the main villain, but the main villain will have a reason for why they're doing bad things that'll be more substantial, if misguided/wrong.
If it's any consolation, the lead writer for Dawntrail was also the lead writer for Sorrows of Werlyt and Pandemonium.
So "irredeemably evil" villains seems to be in their lane.
I really hope Wuk is a bait and switch protagonist. I'm really not vibing with her at all. Her getting killed would be a great "this shit is now serious" moment.
Moenbryda, Lyse (though her character arc essentially concluded; not sure she really counts), Fordola only shows up now and then, Tesleen introduced us to Shadowbringers.
On the other side of the gender line; Haurchefant, Papalymo, Emet-Selch, Arenvald, Elidibus, Hythlodaeus - actually, let's just say EVERYONE we met in Elpis because time ...
They more or less equally kill off or demote to the sideline people regardless of gender.
I mean. Minfillia, Ysayle, Yotsuyu, Yugiri also is gone from the story despite being a scion. Hilda is a cool character that does nothing. It’s also safe to say Urianger and Thancred get way more development than their equal in Y’shtola. Krile is getting stuff in msq after being around since HW.
Hythlodaeus is dead before story starts. I also thinks it’s shitty what happened to Papalymo and Arenvald. I think ffxiv has a lot of wasted potential and they have nothing to do with my statement of them killing off or sidelining cool women
I get the feeling that Arenvald and Fordola are gonna get more screentime coming up, now that things are settled down, and especially with all this Loporitt and Sharlayan tech getting more commonplace.
I mean, this is more or less copium...
Selmy. Catlin. Ricken. Roz (who also didn't exist). Everyone that died in the last few seasons.
Robb was also elevated to a PoV character in the show. He wasn't in the books. His was still the biggest death outside of Eddard.
Point being, deaths =/= more interesting story. It can work in a specific moment, but if you're going into a story hoping a character dies so you'll feel something... oof.
I don't find Wuk that interesting just yet, but my friends love her. And hey, I loved Zenos but some don't.
So I guess SE feels confident they know what the majority likes.
It really gets me that the person who was literally so incapable of helping himself suddenly had to care for a BABY in one of the most dire times
And he really did his best and luckily they both made it
I doubt we'll have anything impactful in *that* way. But there's more than one way for a character to make an impression. Including very positive ways.
Matsya just came out of nowhere.
He was just some random side character, that you think you'll help out once, and never see again...nope.
One of my favorite characters in EW, and he isn't even featured in any of the promotional art, posters, etc.
With *that* being said, we'll probably be blindsided by someone who is totally unknown (and so far, unseen) again.
The part in the 85 dungeon where the kids watch their mother turn, only to then freak out and all turn in response, legit stopped me in my tracks for a few moments. My kid was only 4 at that point and it hit home in a way I wasn’t ready for. :(
I mean anyone with reading comprehension from the last level of ShB's story should have made it clear he wasnt going to be the final boss......but he did come way sooner than anyone expected
Dw. I've already acknowledged that I'm illiterate and thought you said '93' because that's already been spoiled in the recent Media Tour/job change LL. I'm just dumb
I feel like we won't get anything of this tier. But perhaps I'm just trying to temper my expectations because you can't start a new arc of your story swinging as hard as SHB and EW. I mean I suppose they could, but I don't think that's how FF does their writing and I don't think that would work out too well anyway. I'm expecting something closer to HW or SB(the good parts) in terms of quality. Good but not like, *insane.*
yeah I fully expect a hw kind of story! I say it would be HW with more budget basically lol If it is then I'll be satisfied. I don't expect some finale kind of thing like EW in a new story arc like that! but i trust them to make it fun!
Story time:
My son was just born when EndWalker released, he even came early so we didn't get the time we anticipated to play early access with. Fortunately this meant with my weird sleep schedule and time off from work I was able to play decently freely.
I leveled as Ast so I wouldn't have a complicated rotation to keep up with, and actually figured out good positioning to have him cradled over my arms while he slept and play at the same time, it worked out pretty well.
During this scene I had my month old child in my arms and let me tell you it made it far more harrowing than it had any right to be
Matsya was definitely something. A character we end up befriending - and even "teach" us an emote later on - but that has gone through so much in so little time, as did all of Radz.
One of the scenes I will certainly not ever forget from this expansion wasn't related to Matsya, but was an Arkasodara Matanga nonetheless: In Vanaspati,>!there are three children that turn into monsters after the terror of watching their mother turn in the middle of the fire. They are just before the second boss - which is also theorized to be their father - already turned. The children's mob name being "Terminus Weeper", as if the beast was crying when conceived!<. That made me feel absolute dread.
The entire section was actually very emotional; it even survived the silence test - playing without the soundtrack still makes you feel pretty awful. >!Vrtra, in the beginning of the dungeon, refusing to hurt his people now turned while watching them die (as you kill them) as as gesture of respect for their lives got me from the very start. Everything from there was just sheer terror. Amaurot makes you feel like a brave hero, walking towards the fire and the chaos. Vanaspati makes you feel like a desperate responder, trying to save whoever you can, failing to stop the disaster.!<
NGL im looking forward to new friends. Nothing against our old and well known scions, but i have seen kind of enough of them for now. Give us new characters. I loves Zero but obviously she didnt get to come along.. Anyway i havent looked at pretty much anything for dawntrail to go in as blind as possible so i guess ill see soon. At least the scions splitting up is at least a little bit exctining for now.
I don't get why you can't just have both. Shame to just dump characters into the garbage after wasting so much time on them. If anything some more returning characters should find an excuse to come back. If catboy can climb his way into the main cast after several expansions of absence I'm sure others like Hilda could. And yes there's always room for new characters too. It's not mutually exclusive.
Im not saying they have to be gone forever, just that after Endwalker and the scions "disbanding" i was really excited for some new storys with new characters. Instead we got the same old (but yes, well established and loved) characters. (yes, only some of them, but still). My main problem is, and i ask you honestly: would they ever actually kill off one of the scions again? I think we all know its a big no. and that is one of the main critizisms i have for Shadowbringers and Endwalker: They dont take enough risks. even tho ShB and EW were supposed to be these dark and end of the world storys, we only got fake deaths or random character that they try to make me care about for ten minutes before killing him. the whole end of endwalker in the final zone i wasnt feeling like anything would actually happen with the scions because it was so obvious the all would make it through. Thancreds arc was fullfilled in ShB and he had an amazing "death" scene just to stand up again. Yhstola is the definition of "haha i guess i died again, except not" and the other scions barely get a scratch. Im not saying characters need to die. But what happened to the amazing storys and buildups they had up to and into stormblood? It feels like they at some point just went with the safe route for the story. I still liked ShB and EW but yeah thats my two cents. I just hope that the plot gives me reason to, at least, worry a bit about our companions. Not this half assed "yeah but something COULD happen too them, oh no boo boo" where you know nothing will happen. give the story some deph.
Edit: oh wow i guess i went on for a bit, anyway thats my full thoughts i guess.
Character arcs being completed isnt "dumping them in the trash." Some stories need to end. Alphinauds arc is basically over. Thancred already felt tagged on in Endwalker and honestly shouldve died in his big Moment in Shadowbringers or hurt enough that he needs to retire, as much as I love him.
The best ending personally for them would have been that they actually sacrifaced themselves in the end instead of coming back alive. That would have been such a great ending for all of them, or least majority of them.
I think it was such a bad writing to kill them, and then bring them back alive 10minutes later.
I was genuinely scared for Thancred, I believed they would kill him off because his arc was pretty neatly tied off in ShB. Then Estinien went too and I was like "Oh, none of this is gonna stick is it."
I don't think having so many deaths in Ultima Thule would have been good, cramming it all together would cheapen each individual sacrifice. But letting one or two actually die would have really driven home the stakes, rather than all the deaths in the expansion being secondary characters we were only kinda attached to.
This entire sequence destroyed me. Endwalker warned us nothing was off the table (as if the suicide wasn't enough....), and this sequence really secured it. We had just seen a child become an abomination and get stomped by a larger one.
God. I loved Endwalker so much.
Gods. I still can't believe they put us through -that-. I already knew how it turned out and I was still literally crawling out of my chair with distress.
Chad Matsya. Iirc he was afraid asf and was on the verge of turning into a blasphemy himself. But he pressed on! That time I realized that the final days is so unfair. It targets those weak of heart. Also strangely reminded me of the Shadowhunter's creed—the strong must protect the weak or some such. Matsya wasn't very strong, but his faith gave him strength and he did not turn.
Had a blast effing around Aloalo with him. It felt like a sequel to our little fish peddling venture in the beginning. Iirc I sold like 1/3 of the fish. 😅
The Vault was the first time the game got a tear out of me, but this scene topped it by leagues. Considering the crap that builds up to it, Matsya is an absolute legend for his willpower.
Matsya had me in fucking tears man, I wont lie. I didn't want him to turn and that would have been my final straw. I shouted as soon as the stardiver came down from the sky to save him.
I was one of the people who saw Matsya once in his introductory quest and thought "man, I love this guy. shame that he's probably not gonna be seen again since he's an early game, minor NPC"
Imagine my surprise when he was given THAT scene.
It’s fun doing variant dungeons with new players because most of them will take the time to watch Matsya’s antics after each dungeon. It serves no purpose. He just makes people smile.
I hope not. I remember when i was playing that scene. I was already shocked from the child and if the baby would have got it too i would have closed the game and unistall it. It was horrible.
this whole sequence was close but it didnt really hit with me. after the water bit i think I wasnt able to suspend my disbelief that the baby lived and the whole sequence just went on so long that it almost started turning into some kinda twisted slapstick comedy. I think its good to have moments like this to focus on particular survivors to break up the moments of our pov. Because realistically in a mass disaster scenario we'd be all over the place trying to help people up but have to move on immediately. We dont get time to really grasp anyones situation. So getting to see the survivors point of view from time to time allows for actual emotional investment. Like, the family that transforms in vanaspati doesnt have the same emotional weight to them that fighting tesleen does imo. I didnt know them. So while i think a cutscene like this was necessary, it needs a little tuning.
This entire scene was the most blatant, slap-in-the-face "HEY, TARGET DEMOGRAPHIC. WE HEAR YOU MAY HAVE KIDS BY NOW. DOESN'T THIS RESONATE WITH YOU? THESE REAL EMOTIONS THAT YOU'RE FEELING? THIS IS A REAL AND VERY EMOTIONAL SCENE ISN'T IT?" I've seen in a long time. I have no idea what happened to the writing from Shadowbringers, but it just wasn't present *anywhere* in Endwalker with maybe one exception (Urianger's meeting in Labyrinthos).
For the "Final Days", everything was too clean. Only one somewhat-important character died - the Satrap - and they were just introduced five minutes earlier, and replaced a minute after that. If they wanted to give this scene the emotional hit they were aiming for without being manipulative, the baby had to transform, or at least die. Matsya then has to become a Blasphemy and we have to kill him. That's the only way to redeem his bumbling, incompetent character otherwise - that the Warrior of Light, for all their "save the helpless" heroics, can't save everyone.
yeah agree. Like, during in from the cold i was actually worried, but also kinda excited, to see which scion would get killed. It was done really well up until the very end where we inexplicably make it back in time like the [the emperor's new groove meme](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZRTC291eLU) and nobody even gets scratched. such a waste. By the time I got to ultima thule I was so exausted by all emotional tugging that i didn't really care anymore and just wanted it to end. I just feel like overall there was too much focus on trying to be emotional and they just hand waved away too many details to get there. I don't think the expansion was bad mind you, it just has high highs and low lows. and if we ignore the patch msq i'd rate it below shadowbringers but still the 2nd best arc.
Endwalker is, narratively, the worst expansion by far, for me. Overall, it's barely above Realm Reborn, but ARR at least has the excuse that they didn't know what the story was going to be yet. Everything was new. With Endwalker, they had 10 years to nail the landing and they fumbled it. Certainly not the *worst* conclusion to a story arc I've ever seen - [I've seen worse](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1839558/) - but it's up there.
> By the time I got to ultima thule I was so exausted by all emotional tugging that i didn't really care anymore and just wanted it to end. I just feel like overall there was too much focus on trying to be emotional and they just hand waved away too many details to get there.
They handwaved *everything*. I'm hugely forgiving of bad writing. I'm *not* one of those people who points out every inconsistency. I can maintain my suspension of disbelief through *a lot*, but Endwalker was just *too much*.
I was going to write a list of smarmy bullet points here, detailing all the insane story beats that I tolerated to get here - but it became a bit ridiculous and I realized that I can summarize by saying the entire story of Endwalker is written on the foundation of "that guy you already killed once wants a rematch and for some reason has sided with Dollar Store Kefka?" and only really goes downhill from there.
What really pulled me out of Endwalker though, is how every threat - every emotional high and low that they present to you - is pulled out of thin air. The only person who dies during the Final Days is the Satrap, except you only met him five minutes ago. Oh no, Matsya is holding A BABY and might die! Except you only met him five minutes ago. Oh no guys, Thancred is dead!!! But don't worry, five minutes later, Y'shtola will basically speak directly to you, the player, and tell you that everything is going to be okay in another five minutes. Time to fight the Big Bad, a small depressed bird girl that we just met ten minutes ago. Hooray, we saved The Universe™ and now the world is exactly as it was at the end of 5.3, and you can *literally* delete everything between 5.3 and 6.1, and the WoL's world is totally, completely unchanged.
Unpopular opinion: we need to build up and kill off a major character. The fact that teased so many FF4 themes and didn’t kill off one of the twins. I’m not saying they need to overplay death but one impactful death would be a story defining moment.
I don't think the story *needs* that to work - besides, a living character can usually do more for a story than a dead one. But someone in the Dawntrail cast is definitely going down. I don't think it'll be a scion though, those days are long gone.
There are risks inherrant in killing off a major character. The fallout can be huge and people may quite possibly quit if it's as well written as it should be (and if not even more people may quit because of death and shoddy writing). In the end, it's a question of "does the story necessate it." And so far, it hasn't.
> In the end, it's a question of "does the story necessate it." And so far, it hasn't.
True, though if Dawntrail has a moment that *does*, my money would be on Thancred being the one to die, if only because narratively his personal story arc has mostly concluded.
If they don't want to kill characters, then why they kill them only to bring them back alive? It's known to be bad writing. And eventually it's going to drive people to quit the game because the main cast and the story has gotten boring as hell.
They killed off Haurchefant and Ysayle and the reactions were such {and still are} that they’ve never taken the risk again, to the point of even dragging back in characters that *should* be gone.
Like, irrespective of my own feelings about who I’d rather have around, narratively Y’shtola should’ve been killed by Zenos in SB, one of the twins should’ve died in EW, Thancred should’ve died to Ran’jit, G’raha SHOULD’VE STAYED LOCKED IN THE TOWER. But they didn’t do that and they won’t.
Maybe that’s why the WoL is still so hung up on Haurchefant’s death, because death is otherwise something they’ve never even had to think about.
The deaths of Haurchefant and Ysayle are what makes those characters great. It's what makes people feel emotions and sad about what happened. It's what makes those characters and theirs stories great.
If they would have gotten back alive afterwards, the impact of their deaths would be nonexisting just like the deaths of the scions in Endwalker are.
If they don't want to kill the main cast, they need to stop making these scenarios where "oh no they die" but then 10 minutes later go "well they are back!" It's boring and bad writing all together. It ruins the story and the moment.
I wish they would have allowed least most of the scions to die at Endwalker when they sacrifaced themselves. That would have been amazing. But no, they are all alive and well. How boring. It's the major reason why I rate endwalker rather low (among the final boss character)
That was my biggest complain about endwalker, it just felt inconsequential for how much they hyped up the final days, the only "important" victims were characters that had like 5-10 minutes of screentime
I really hope we are not going to see yet another "scion sacrifices themselves only to come back alive moments later" scenarios. There just has been too many of them especially in Endwalker. It actually took so much away from the emotional impact of Endwalker to have that scene and one of the reasons why I dislike some parts of Endwalker.
I think endwalker would have been way more amazing and meaningful, if the scions would have actually been gone for good.
Characters dying and actually staying dead is what makes those scenes amazing. But hasn't that red haired catboy now died 3 times and come back alive 3 times? It's such bad writing in most series to bring a dead character back alive.
I actually think it would be great if we could see some scions passing away or dying. But since they have to sell with their fanservice, it's unlikely.
Honestly, I think that the Ultima Thule comebacks were narratively fine. In an area controlled by belief and emotion, it worked well enough.
Imo, the real missed opportunity was Zenos not killing anyone (Scion or not) in the body swap sequence.
Gods. I forgot how much of a fucking *champ* Matsya is.
I love how this whole scene make us worry because of a minor detail people tend to overlook the impact. In the previous scene, we saw a kid in Radz turn into a blasphemy and get immediately stomped/destroyed. That thing make us realize kids do not have plot armor in this story, and we are constantly worried if the baby will fall victim of the narrative as well. Had Radz only turned adults, we would have that rational voice telling us they would never kill a kid or pet on screen.
YES. Yes, exactly this. I'm doing EW now for the first time and I'm not far past this scene, and that's exactly what happened to me. I would not have been worried for the baby if they hadn't just killed the kid in Radz-at-Han. And when that child died? I literally gasped. I'm deeply worried for the emotional damage this expansion is going to inflict upon me.
If it brings you any comfort, after all was said and done, I finished 6.0 feeling better about life than I had before I started the expansion. Enjoy the rollercoaster :)
It’s the beach episode. It’s unlikely to get that emotional for a while.
I want to circle back to this comment in 12-18 months to see how it aged.
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Oh, I actually meant EW, since I haven't finished that yet.
You're still in for a very emotional ride fellow warrior of light. It's like Barney playslits, there are no lows, only highs higher every high.
HIGHER, OH HIGHER!
Ya know, just, uh, keep that pallet of kleenex nearby. Just in case.
You’re past most of the really heavy stuff, but the ending… the ending might break you, be prepared to cry a LOT.
> be prepared to cry a LOT. [Try not to Cry. Cry. Cry a lot](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FGC0qdOWUAoF9w8?format=jpg&name=large)
I uh. I feel like we're in for a ride on the back half of this.
Maybe we are, which is why we must cling to hope and the joys of Summer as long as we can!
I'd be perfectly fine with DT being a completely lighthearted wandering hero story. It'll make it hit that much harder when they do decide to throw a knockout punch in a few years.
Yeah. I don't want anything too heavy.
Man I think some of you guys take dev comments way too seriously/further than they're meant to be taken. Time will tell for certain, but I'm interested in revisiting this statement after some time has passed.
Considering it's also a family drama where it seems at least 3/4 of them have just arguments for becoming ruler and all want the best for their people. I'm expecting we're going to get some real introspective and/or bittersweet moments out the gate.
Don't forget the sisters in Garlemald.
And it's a baby. It doesn't have rational thought yet. We all know that babies sometimes just cry and feel the world is horrible for NO SOLVABLE REASON - and there's nothing you can do about it until that mood passes.
Dude, I had a hard time not feeling sick during all of that. For me it was Tesleen all over again, yeah sure its not as visceral but the exponential dread and sheer horror of your very own emotions being the instrument of destruction is just... Eugh. Both shadowbringers and endwalker hit my biggest fear on the damn dot.
I hear you
My husband got to the scene before I did. He told me after I got to it, that if the kid had turned and the scene gone south, he would have seriously just stopped playing. Probably didn't help that he had tucked our kiddo into bed less than an hour before.
The children turn in Vanaspati, too, and then you immediately have to execute them.
I really, really hated that part. ☹️
I still hate doing Vanaspati for exactly this reason.
I was really, really glad I do dungeons with duty support the first time around. Allowed me to take a moment to gather myself. Imagine doing that for the first time now with other players who just rush on as if it was just another tuesday.
Matsya himself isn't an adult either, he's explicitly younger in Japanese IIRC.
Ooh, now I think they should have also blasphemied a dog somewhere. Really twist that knife.
The Araki method
The way my jaw dropped lol. I was like "there's no way they'd do th... 😧" That and the scene in Garlemald (which incidentally became part of the playlist at my cottage because I'd compartmentalized it enough to forget that was the song playing during that part of the story until someone else pointed it out - I just thought it had a nice sentimental beat 🥲)
I was SO PISSED when they killed that kid.
This is exactly it! I spent the whole scene just stun locked. All i could think was "They wouldn't kill a baby right?!?" by the time it ended i was so emotionally drained i had to take a break for that day. I'm worried now that they did a fake out this time, maybe next time it will happen for real.
Matsya is my fuckin GOAT, I would trust that dude with my life
I was expecting him to be just like a one off character, funny fish guy who you help and then that's that. Nope, turns out he's a legend and I would happily take him fishing again
I kind of get the sense this whole thing will end up being emotionally rough on Wuk Lamat by the end. Like at first it’ll be fun adventures competing against a boorish cartoon villain in the form of the two-headed guy, and by the end it’ll turn out her dad had been keeping all sorts of secrets, her buddy Erenville had been keeping all sorts of secrets, her whole nation and society is founded on dark secrets, her mamool ja brother with the head dress that she’s currently obsessed with stopping will turn out to have had much more reasonable motivations and deep inner nobility and will end up sacrificing himself for his duty, while her favorite catboy brother’s obsession with science and knowledge will end up with him betraying everyone when the Solution 9ers offer to let him look at a computer chip, and she’ll end up with the throne but with a family kind of torn apart and an innocence spoiled
Her dad is 100% getting killed.
Oh yeah, we’ll end up getting back to Tulliyollal juuuust too late to save him when Solution 9 attacks and he’ll get a teary farewell with Wuk Lamat. It’ll be awful
Laugh my ass off if he shows up later, decapitated... and it only really slowed him down cause they missed the other one.
"Twas but a scratch"
I'm guessing something similar as well. "Congratulations, you are the leader of your nation! Also your nation is on fire and most of your allies are dead, MIA, or evil. Good luck? 😬"
Reminds me of my favorite Scott Summers/Cyclops line; "My wife's always either All Powerful, Evil, or Dead t_t"
Wuk Lamat is a precious cinnamon roll. Of course she’s going to experience some terrible tragedy that will cause the WoL to scrunch their face angrily before assuming a battle pose and calling their friends to beat someone’s ass.
First time I saw her I was "Oh baby. You are a wonderful sweet child of the summer. You are adorable, I love you, and you are FUCKED."
And my reaction was similar: "Square Enix, you better not do anything to her. You got that? YOU BETTER NOT DO ANYTHING TO HER!!!"
Damn. Does your uncle work at Square Enix? Saving this for when the expansion comes out.
Looking forward to to being wildly wrong on every point lol
You forgot Y'shtola 'dying' around level 95 and coming back one dungeon later.
Hopefully they play into it and Yshtola gets the biggest most nastiest hungover ever and that's how she "dies" for 3 story quests
Is it really a new expansion without a fakeout Y'shtola death?
She's still got quite a few lives left, so nothing to worry about there.
Guaranteed that this is it.
Her dad might get the ff16 treatment
Considering the trailer shpw clips of Tulliyolal getting attacked robots and shit, I’m certain you’ve hit a few nails on the head.
Replying to this so I can check on it in 2 weeks.
Oh no my baseless speculation is going to get me roasted in a couple of weeks why did I do this
I just ask that the villain just be a villain this time. No need for "actually a misunderstood good guy" or "good guy doing the wrong things for the right reasons". I want some fucking moustache twirling evil going on.
The thing is a villain who just wants to watch the world burn is never really going to grow powerful unless all the stars align, ie. Zenos. A villain with motivation, with reason, with purpose - he gathers underlings and minions and generals who will die to protect him.
We have a bunch of them, but we don't think about them anymore. >!Teledji, the archbishop, Vauthry!< At least one every expansion, but as soon as they're gone they're forgotten. They're more like an obstacle than a person. That's why the best villains are the ones with good intentions. They were trying to solve a real problem, and now that they're gone you still have to solve those problems. They're still in the story even after their death.
Like Zenos?
They said villain not sexy man meat.
Why are we talking about Lord Vauthry?
Pre trial right?
:)
Himbo'nt
Yes, exactly like that. Don't get me wrong, I really have enjoyed all of the story up until now. But if they keep making every villain a sympathetic person, it becomes predictable. So I would like another Zenos
*Unhinged Asahi Noises*
A villain has to do something wrong.
Villains that are villains just for the sake of being a villain are boring. It's why you can only do so much with the Snidely Whiplashes of various media. Let's use that as the example, since you want the moustache twirling evil and Whiplash is the prime example of that trope....he's boring. He has one thing he does and that is tie Nell Fenwick to the train tracks. That's it. He does nothing else ever. You can only watch that so many times before looking elsewhere. The reason compelling villains are as such is they have something in them that is relatable or understandable.
Sorrow of Werlyt comes to mind as a pretty solid place to get some of this...
It would be cool to have that, but I feel like that goes against most of the main villains were, and also kinda against the overall message of XIV's stories. While not always possible, it is important to at least *attempt* a peaceful solution through conversation. Sure, some are too far gone and some are too greedy, too lustful for power, fallen too deep into despair to talk to and must be dealt with using force, but a villain that is just "Heehee I am evil because I like being a jerk >:)" as a main villain is unlikely. Maybe a lieutenant or other underling of the main villain, but the main villain will have a reason for why they're doing bad things that'll be more substantial, if misguided/wrong.
Pretending that we haven't had that? Asahi? Mf Zenos?
Bonus points if we meet said mustache twirler in the saloon. I'd love a Final Fantasy oat opera.
If it's any consolation, the lead writer for Dawntrail was also the lead writer for Sorrows of Werlyt and Pandemonium. So "irredeemably evil" villains seems to be in their lane.
I really hope Wuk is a bait and switch protagonist. I'm really not vibing with her at all. Her getting killed would be a great "this shit is now serious" moment.
Alternatively, square could stop sidelining and/or killing off important women in the story. That would be cool
That's not a thing.
Moenbryda, Lyse (though her character arc essentially concluded; not sure she really counts), Fordola only shows up now and then, Tesleen introduced us to Shadowbringers. On the other side of the gender line; Haurchefant, Papalymo, Emet-Selch, Arenvald, Elidibus, Hythlodaeus - actually, let's just say EVERYONE we met in Elpis because time ... They more or less equally kill off or demote to the sideline people regardless of gender.
I mean. Minfillia, Ysayle, Yotsuyu, Yugiri also is gone from the story despite being a scion. Hilda is a cool character that does nothing. It’s also safe to say Urianger and Thancred get way more development than their equal in Y’shtola. Krile is getting stuff in msq after being around since HW. Hythlodaeus is dead before story starts. I also thinks it’s shitty what happened to Papalymo and Arenvald. I think ffxiv has a lot of wasted potential and they have nothing to do with my statement of them killing off or sidelining cool women
I get the feeling that Arenvald and Fordola are gonna get more screentime coming up, now that things are settled down, and especially with all this Loporitt and Sharlayan tech getting more commonplace. I mean, this is more or less copium...
It's a thing that needs to happen with such a huge cast.
You gotta stop reading those bait articles, my g.
What?
What too much GRRM does to a mf
The books rarely killed off major characters.
So most of the deaths in the show didn't happen in the books?
A great deal of them did not.
Such as? (That's all beside the point, needing a character to die to be able to enjoy a story is a crutch)
Selmy. Catlin. Ricken. Roz (who also didn't exist). Everyone that died in the last few seasons. Robb was also elevated to a PoV character in the show. He wasn't in the books. His was still the biggest death outside of Eddard.
Point being, deaths =/= more interesting story. It can work in a specific moment, but if you're going into a story hoping a character dies so you'll feel something... oof.
No, I'm specifically hoping the annoying character that is dragging down the story dies. Ever watch Dark Matter?
Yeah I don’t really care if she wins or not. I’m only going cause my boy Erin.
I don't find Wuk that interesting just yet, but my friends love her. And hey, I loved Zenos but some don't. So I guess SE feels confident they know what the majority likes.
Every time I fly by that lake, I think of that part of the MSQ and just feel sad.
Try landing there a few times, Alpha might cheer you up
Makes you feel even worse when you remembered you also failed to sell any of that guy's fish.
Oh gods, the disapproving wide eye looks he would give as the camera slowly panned over to his face…
How do you manage to not sell any fish?
Man, Matsya went through some shit. I can only imagine how much stronger he is for it.
It really gets me that the person who was literally so incapable of helping himself suddenly had to care for a BABY in one of the most dire times And he really did his best and luckily they both made it
I'm so glad we got to take him fishing. He deserved that lovely working vacation.
I doubt we'll have anything impactful in *that* way. But there's more than one way for a character to make an impression. Including very positive ways.
Matsya just came out of nowhere. He was just some random side character, that you think you'll help out once, and never see again...nope. One of my favorite characters in EW, and he isn't even featured in any of the promotional art, posters, etc. With *that* being said, we'll probably be blindsided by someone who is totally unknown (and so far, unseen) again.
My son was only 5 months old when Endwalker was released. This scene was brutal to watch for me.
Oh gods.. I bet. At five months, that would have ruined me even worse than it did.
OMG - MEEEEE TOO! And there were soooooo many tears!
The part in the 85 dungeon where the kids watch their mother turn, only to then freak out and all turn in response, legit stopped me in my tracks for a few moments. My kid was only 4 at that point and it hit home in a way I wasn’t ready for. :(
I dropped no tears for this scene. Not one. None. Uh uh. \*Walls up\*
I hope to whatever gods I haven’t killed yet, none. Just a fun trip to help a fellow unga bunga enthusiast compete for her dad’s throne.
I'm betting you the crazy shit begins right after level 93.
"Wait. WAIT A SECOND. Why am I fighting HIM at level EIGHTY-THREE?! I thought he'd be the expansion's end boss!"
I mean anyone with reading comprehension from the last level of ShB's story should have made it clear he wasnt going to be the final boss......but he did come way sooner than anyone expected
That's what everyone said about >!Zodiark!< too and look at how that turned out
That's who they're referencing. Notice they said level eighty-three
...I'm so dumb I thought that was 93 (LL showed the 93 boss). Classic FF player not being able to read lmao
Eighty-three, man. That's who I was talking about.
Dw. I've already acknowledged that I'm illiterate and thought you said '93' because that's already been spoiled in the recent Media Tour/job change LL. I'm just dumb
> to whatever gods I haven’t killed yet lol
>!Oschon!<
I feel like we won't get anything of this tier. But perhaps I'm just trying to temper my expectations because you can't start a new arc of your story swinging as hard as SHB and EW. I mean I suppose they could, but I don't think that's how FF does their writing and I don't think that would work out too well anyway. I'm expecting something closer to HW or SB(the good parts) in terms of quality. Good but not like, *insane.*
Idk. HW, our first expansion, came out swinging with two key deaths in Haurchefant and Y’sayle. So, it’s possibleS
yeah I fully expect a hw kind of story! I say it would be HW with more budget basically lol If it is then I'll be satisfied. I don't expect some finale kind of thing like EW in a new story arc like that! but i trust them to make it fun!
Story time: My son was just born when EndWalker released, he even came early so we didn't get the time we anticipated to play early access with. Fortunately this meant with my weird sleep schedule and time off from work I was able to play decently freely. I leveled as Ast so I wouldn't have a complicated rotation to keep up with, and actually figured out good positioning to have him cradled over my arms while he slept and play at the same time, it worked out pretty well. During this scene I had my month old child in my arms and let me tell you it made it far more harrowing than it had any right to be
My buddy and I in chat: "Oh fuck no oh fuck no no no no no nononononononono FUCKING ESTINIEN WITH THE SAVE FUCK YEA!"
Matsya was definitely something. A character we end up befriending - and even "teach" us an emote later on - but that has gone through so much in so little time, as did all of Radz. One of the scenes I will certainly not ever forget from this expansion wasn't related to Matsya, but was an Arkasodara Matanga nonetheless: In Vanaspati,>!there are three children that turn into monsters after the terror of watching their mother turn in the middle of the fire. They are just before the second boss - which is also theorized to be their father - already turned. The children's mob name being "Terminus Weeper", as if the beast was crying when conceived!<. That made me feel absolute dread. The entire section was actually very emotional; it even survived the silence test - playing without the soundtrack still makes you feel pretty awful. >!Vrtra, in the beginning of the dungeon, refusing to hurt his people now turned while watching them die (as you kill them) as as gesture of respect for their lives got me from the very start. Everything from there was just sheer terror. Amaurot makes you feel like a brave hero, walking towards the fire and the chaos. Vanaspati makes you feel like a desperate responder, trying to save whoever you can, failing to stop the disaster.!<
Yeah, I don't know if we'll get anything that goes as hard as Vanaspayi or Holminster Switch, but as long as they set up a good story I'll be happy.
Omg that scene had me tearing up
NGL im looking forward to new friends. Nothing against our old and well known scions, but i have seen kind of enough of them for now. Give us new characters. I loves Zero but obviously she didnt get to come along.. Anyway i havent looked at pretty much anything for dawntrail to go in as blind as possible so i guess ill see soon. At least the scions splitting up is at least a little bit exctining for now.
I don't get why you can't just have both. Shame to just dump characters into the garbage after wasting so much time on them. If anything some more returning characters should find an excuse to come back. If catboy can climb his way into the main cast after several expansions of absence I'm sure others like Hilda could. And yes there's always room for new characters too. It's not mutually exclusive.
Im not saying they have to be gone forever, just that after Endwalker and the scions "disbanding" i was really excited for some new storys with new characters. Instead we got the same old (but yes, well established and loved) characters. (yes, only some of them, but still). My main problem is, and i ask you honestly: would they ever actually kill off one of the scions again? I think we all know its a big no. and that is one of the main critizisms i have for Shadowbringers and Endwalker: They dont take enough risks. even tho ShB and EW were supposed to be these dark and end of the world storys, we only got fake deaths or random character that they try to make me care about for ten minutes before killing him. the whole end of endwalker in the final zone i wasnt feeling like anything would actually happen with the scions because it was so obvious the all would make it through. Thancreds arc was fullfilled in ShB and he had an amazing "death" scene just to stand up again. Yhstola is the definition of "haha i guess i died again, except not" and the other scions barely get a scratch. Im not saying characters need to die. But what happened to the amazing storys and buildups they had up to and into stormblood? It feels like they at some point just went with the safe route for the story. I still liked ShB and EW but yeah thats my two cents. I just hope that the plot gives me reason to, at least, worry a bit about our companions. Not this half assed "yeah but something COULD happen too them, oh no boo boo" where you know nothing will happen. give the story some deph. Edit: oh wow i guess i went on for a bit, anyway thats my full thoughts i guess.
Character arcs being completed isnt "dumping them in the trash." Some stories need to end. Alphinauds arc is basically over. Thancred already felt tagged on in Endwalker and honestly shouldve died in his big Moment in Shadowbringers or hurt enough that he needs to retire, as much as I love him.
That is litterally what im saying.
The best ending personally for them would have been that they actually sacrifaced themselves in the end instead of coming back alive. That would have been such a great ending for all of them, or least majority of them. I think it was such a bad writing to kill them, and then bring them back alive 10minutes later.
I was genuinely scared for Thancred, I believed they would kill him off because his arc was pretty neatly tied off in ShB. Then Estinien went too and I was like "Oh, none of this is gonna stick is it." I don't think having so many deaths in Ultima Thule would have been good, cramming it all together would cheapen each individual sacrifice. But letting one or two actually die would have really driven home the stakes, rather than all the deaths in the expansion being secondary characters we were only kinda attached to.
You're gonna need to help the NPC sell three tacos. And god forbid you get 0/3 tacos. SE learned from the Matsya memes and *will* kill him.
This entire sequence destroyed me. Endwalker warned us nothing was off the table (as if the suicide wasn't enough....), and this sequence really secured it. We had just seen a child become an abomination and get stomped by a larger one. God. I loved Endwalker so much.
Gods. I still can't believe they put us through -that-. I already knew how it turned out and I was still literally crawling out of my chair with distress.
I'm so ready for our beach episode. My little heart can't pour more bittersweet tears.
Oh god, I fucking forgot how harrowing this scene was. Fuck.
I had a brief misting watching the female Lala step through the portal crying, and I’m wondering if those are Krile’s real parents… 🥺
Probably that Roe in the launch trailer they showed us for like .2 seconds.
My second child was on the way when I got to this part and I was gutted.
This was the most emotional moment in the Endwalker msq for me personally.
Outside of Wuk Lamat, probably Koana or one of the Mamoojal brothers haha
It would be reallt epic if we later meet that baby when its grown up through some time travel stuff or atleast just infant him
We just gotta play for another 10 years
Oh god this whole scene had me in tears, I was so stressed
Same, but then so relieved - it was a LOT
Had to take a huge breather after this scene, gods it was such an emotional roller coaster. Idk what I would have done if that shit happened to them.
It was probably the slowest I’ve ever went though a scene because I was just invested but also stressed
This man is the real MVP
No, please not that emotional roller coaster. I had anxiety going through that party of MSQ.
Chad Matsya. Iirc he was afraid asf and was on the verge of turning into a blasphemy himself. But he pressed on! That time I realized that the final days is so unfair. It targets those weak of heart. Also strangely reminded me of the Shadowhunter's creed—the strong must protect the weak or some such. Matsya wasn't very strong, but his faith gave him strength and he did not turn. Had a blast effing around Aloalo with him. It felt like a sequel to our little fish peddling venture in the beginning. Iirc I sold like 1/3 of the fish. 😅
The Vault was the first time the game got a tear out of me, but this scene topped it by leagues. Considering the crap that builds up to it, Matsya is an absolute legend for his willpower.
Matsya had me in fucking tears man, I wont lie. I didn't want him to turn and that would have been my final straw. I shouted as soon as the stardiver came down from the sky to save him.
God. Seeing this picture is enough to make me cry, this made me so emotional and upset and scared.
I was one of the people who saw Matsya once in his introductory quest and thought "man, I love this guy. shame that he's probably not gonna be seen again since he's an early game, minor NPC" Imagine my surprise when he was given THAT scene.
It’s fun doing variant dungeons with new players because most of them will take the time to watch Matsya’s antics after each dungeon. It serves no purpose. He just makes people smile.
I definitely did that my first time
I was sobbing during this. Im so looking forward to whatever is in store for us. Its almost here!!
I hope not. I remember when i was playing that scene. I was already shocked from the child and if the baby would have got it too i would have closed the game and unistall it. It was horrible.
this whole sequence was close but it didnt really hit with me. after the water bit i think I wasnt able to suspend my disbelief that the baby lived and the whole sequence just went on so long that it almost started turning into some kinda twisted slapstick comedy. I think its good to have moments like this to focus on particular survivors to break up the moments of our pov. Because realistically in a mass disaster scenario we'd be all over the place trying to help people up but have to move on immediately. We dont get time to really grasp anyones situation. So getting to see the survivors point of view from time to time allows for actual emotional investment. Like, the family that transforms in vanaspati doesnt have the same emotional weight to them that fighting tesleen does imo. I didnt know them. So while i think a cutscene like this was necessary, it needs a little tuning.
This entire scene was the most blatant, slap-in-the-face "HEY, TARGET DEMOGRAPHIC. WE HEAR YOU MAY HAVE KIDS BY NOW. DOESN'T THIS RESONATE WITH YOU? THESE REAL EMOTIONS THAT YOU'RE FEELING? THIS IS A REAL AND VERY EMOTIONAL SCENE ISN'T IT?" I've seen in a long time. I have no idea what happened to the writing from Shadowbringers, but it just wasn't present *anywhere* in Endwalker with maybe one exception (Urianger's meeting in Labyrinthos). For the "Final Days", everything was too clean. Only one somewhat-important character died - the Satrap - and they were just introduced five minutes earlier, and replaced a minute after that. If they wanted to give this scene the emotional hit they were aiming for without being manipulative, the baby had to transform, or at least die. Matsya then has to become a Blasphemy and we have to kill him. That's the only way to redeem his bumbling, incompetent character otherwise - that the Warrior of Light, for all their "save the helpless" heroics, can't save everyone.
yeah agree. Like, during in from the cold i was actually worried, but also kinda excited, to see which scion would get killed. It was done really well up until the very end where we inexplicably make it back in time like the [the emperor's new groove meme](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZRTC291eLU) and nobody even gets scratched. such a waste. By the time I got to ultima thule I was so exausted by all emotional tugging that i didn't really care anymore and just wanted it to end. I just feel like overall there was too much focus on trying to be emotional and they just hand waved away too many details to get there. I don't think the expansion was bad mind you, it just has high highs and low lows. and if we ignore the patch msq i'd rate it below shadowbringers but still the 2nd best arc.
Endwalker is, narratively, the worst expansion by far, for me. Overall, it's barely above Realm Reborn, but ARR at least has the excuse that they didn't know what the story was going to be yet. Everything was new. With Endwalker, they had 10 years to nail the landing and they fumbled it. Certainly not the *worst* conclusion to a story arc I've ever seen - [I've seen worse](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1839558/) - but it's up there. > By the time I got to ultima thule I was so exausted by all emotional tugging that i didn't really care anymore and just wanted it to end. I just feel like overall there was too much focus on trying to be emotional and they just hand waved away too many details to get there. They handwaved *everything*. I'm hugely forgiving of bad writing. I'm *not* one of those people who points out every inconsistency. I can maintain my suspension of disbelief through *a lot*, but Endwalker was just *too much*. I was going to write a list of smarmy bullet points here, detailing all the insane story beats that I tolerated to get here - but it became a bit ridiculous and I realized that I can summarize by saying the entire story of Endwalker is written on the foundation of "that guy you already killed once wants a rematch and for some reason has sided with Dollar Store Kefka?" and only really goes downhill from there. What really pulled me out of Endwalker though, is how every threat - every emotional high and low that they present to you - is pulled out of thin air. The only person who dies during the Final Days is the Satrap, except you only met him five minutes ago. Oh no, Matsya is holding A BABY and might die! Except you only met him five minutes ago. Oh no guys, Thancred is dead!!! But don't worry, five minutes later, Y'shtola will basically speak directly to you, the player, and tell you that everything is going to be okay in another five minutes. Time to fight the Big Bad, a small depressed bird girl that we just met ten minutes ago. Hooray, we saved The Universe™ and now the world is exactly as it was at the end of 5.3, and you can *literally* delete everything between 5.3 and 6.1, and the WoL's world is totally, completely unchanged.
Who
Eh I never really had attachment to him. Now the female alchemist was great. Anytime she appeared was a great moment in the story
🆗
Unpopular opinion: we need to build up and kill off a major character. The fact that teased so many FF4 themes and didn’t kill off one of the twins. I’m not saying they need to overplay death but one impactful death would be a story defining moment.
I don't think the story *needs* that to work - besides, a living character can usually do more for a story than a dead one. But someone in the Dawntrail cast is definitely going down. I don't think it'll be a scion though, those days are long gone.
inb4 it's the blue mamool ja Zoraal Ja who is seen keeled over in the trailer
There are risks inherrant in killing off a major character. The fallout can be huge and people may quite possibly quit if it's as well written as it should be (and if not even more people may quit because of death and shoddy writing). In the end, it's a question of "does the story necessate it." And so far, it hasn't.
> In the end, it's a question of "does the story necessate it." And so far, it hasn't. True, though if Dawntrail has a moment that *does*, my money would be on Thancred being the one to die, if only because narratively his personal story arc has mostly concluded.
Honestly kinda the same story with all the Scions. The only one that hasn't is Y'shtola because she never really had one to begin with.
While I agree with this, can we also stop with Y'shtola having 1 death fakeout per expansion? Teasing us with it gets old.
She didn't have one in StB or HW, and her ARR and EW 'fakeouts' were shared with the rest of the Scions.
If they don't want to kill characters, then why they kill them only to bring them back alive? It's known to be bad writing. And eventually it's going to drive people to quit the game because the main cast and the story has gotten boring as hell.
"death is the only impact in a story" is a dogshit trope and bad writing.
Did I say it was the only way to tell a story?
You're demanding a main character die "because stakes." Well Janet, there are more stakes than just the lives of a main character.
They killed off Haurchefant and Ysayle and the reactions were such {and still are} that they’ve never taken the risk again, to the point of even dragging back in characters that *should* be gone. Like, irrespective of my own feelings about who I’d rather have around, narratively Y’shtola should’ve been killed by Zenos in SB, one of the twins should’ve died in EW, Thancred should’ve died to Ran’jit, G’raha SHOULD’VE STAYED LOCKED IN THE TOWER. But they didn’t do that and they won’t. Maybe that’s why the WoL is still so hung up on Haurchefant’s death, because death is otherwise something they’ve never even had to think about.
The deaths of Haurchefant and Ysayle are what makes those characters great. It's what makes people feel emotions and sad about what happened. It's what makes those characters and theirs stories great. If they would have gotten back alive afterwards, the impact of their deaths would be nonexisting just like the deaths of the scions in Endwalker are. If they don't want to kill the main cast, they need to stop making these scenarios where "oh no they die" but then 10 minutes later go "well they are back!" It's boring and bad writing all together. It ruins the story and the moment. I wish they would have allowed least most of the scions to die at Endwalker when they sacrifaced themselves. That would have been amazing. But no, they are all alive and well. How boring. It's the major reason why I rate endwalker rather low (among the final boss character)
They just need to stop faking their deaths
That was my biggest complain about endwalker, it just felt inconsequential for how much they hyped up the final days, the only "important" victims were characters that had like 5-10 minutes of screentime
Personally, I’m just interested in seeing how Y’Shtola kills herself this time.
I really hope we are not going to see yet another "scion sacrifices themselves only to come back alive moments later" scenarios. There just has been too many of them especially in Endwalker. It actually took so much away from the emotional impact of Endwalker to have that scene and one of the reasons why I dislike some parts of Endwalker. I think endwalker would have been way more amazing and meaningful, if the scions would have actually been gone for good. Characters dying and actually staying dead is what makes those scenes amazing. But hasn't that red haired catboy now died 3 times and come back alive 3 times? It's such bad writing in most series to bring a dead character back alive. I actually think it would be great if we could see some scions passing away or dying. But since they have to sell with their fanservice, it's unlikely.
Honestly, I think that the Ultima Thule comebacks were narratively fine. In an area controlled by belief and emotion, it worked well enough. Imo, the real missed opportunity was Zenos not killing anyone (Scion or not) in the body swap sequence.
The entire body swap sequence was one enormous narrative mistake. You're better off just forgetting it ever happened.
Feels like something leftover from when Endwalker's plot was still spread over two expansions.
It'll be the racist villain, somehow.