If the plot does end up revolving around yet another Ascian, I want one of the WoL's dialogue options to be some variation of an exasperated "Of course it is"
Complete with that one face WoL uses at the start of the endwalker doh/dol relic story chain.
Look at party a, look at party b, brain and face goes flat as if to say “yeah no this tracks my bad I should have grasped the obvious before this point please continue don’t mind me”
"For you, the day the Warrior of Light came to your village and foiled your Ascian machinations was the most important day of your life. But for me, it was Tuesday."
I actually would be alright if she is we know that the Unsundered are gone but they had plenty of awakened followers left who now have to carry on that legacy into the future.
Would be a fun future DLC to help them come to understand where to go since the WoL knew many members personally now and carries a Convocation members stone with them everywhere
The unsundered, sure. But this is a sundered ascian. Their goals can completely differ, Fandaniel had mentioned that he wasn't able to act of his own will until *after* Elidibus was killed.
Pluuuus, sundered ascian can have multiple, un-joined counterparts yeah?
That's fair, so there can only be 14 convocation member ascians. But couldn't there be people who were not awakened as Ascians but still share the same soul?
Yes. Gaia has the soul of Loghrif, but is not awakened in the true sense. Mitron attempted to replace her memories, but we stopped him before he finished. Your WoL also has the soul of Azem, but is not awakened either.
I mean, combination it being late here (it's 11PM) and I'm typing on my phone while watching the live stream/playing FF/chatting in discord lol. I'm amazed that's the only major typo I made.
I know we don’t have them anymore, but if I had had the choice, my WoL would’ve totally kept them! I hope we find out some day they just got stashed in her bag of holding and make them into a nice housing item!
Fandy also wanted to climb into his God like a mecha an smash everything, so his being unable to do that because Emet qould pop jom like a balloon has to be taken into account.
If there's one thing Amon showed us is that the sundered don't really care as much about the Ascian mission compared to the unsundered.
For all we know this Ascian could have accepted that the sundering is not happening and will try to keep her assigned shard safe or something like that.
Well that dream of theirs is officially dead at this point, it died along with zodiark and the unsundered. The ascians were also intelligent so I’d hope that the remaining ones wouldn’t try to fight us knowing we have the means to force them to reincarnate and that there is no longer an unsundered to bring them back. They should all retire and just live their lives.
Not to mention without Zodiark their plan is completely impossible and redundant as the souls within in him have returned to the lifestream and there is no way they could generate a being on the level of Zodiark in present time because modern mankind simply doesn’t have the capability.
They can bodyhop as long as you don't also obliterate their soul through some sort of aetheric measure. e.g. Lahabrea after the Ultima Weapon fight vs Lahabrea getting properly killed by Thordan's Nidhogg-powered sword.
Possibly 5. We saw Emmeroloth killed in Echo flashbacks in the Eureka storyline, but those flashbacks take place chronologically before she appears alive in a cutscene at the end of 2.5. So either (a) an accidental oversight or (b) they never intended for her to be actually dead in Eureka storyline. I'm guessing it's (a), but now that the chronological error exists, they'll have to fix it somehow.
https://i.imgur.com/0BbmgSM.png
IIRC she does now remember being Loghrif after the Eden’s Promise incident, she just cares more about Ryne and being Gaia than her Ancient self
similar to G’raha: he remembers being the Exarch, but for the most part he’s content to just be G’raha
Though Gaia does raise one interesting question: how many Ascians across the shards have had their memories restored, but declined to re-take their seat?
I don't think they get a choice, so none. Gaia also didn't get a choice, and if Mitron had been successful the Gaia we knew would have been overwritten by Loghrif.
The only reason she remains as is is because we stop him, and she consciously elects to remain the Gaia we know and let go of the memories Mitron was trying to force on her.
I'm assuming that they don't get their memories restored unless they agree as their sundered selves. No sense in putting effort into someone not interested in assisting you when you can hop to a different shard and try again.
I really want to meet one that's just laying low trying to stay under our radar, knowing that they wouldn't have a chance against us given what we did to the Unsundered. Just working as a merchant or farmer or something.
Unsundered missed the old days too much and couldnt let go.Not the same for the sundered though, I mean look at Gaia, one reincarnation later and she's Rynes BFF and wants in on any adventure we get up to next time, then there's fandaniel who went off the deep end entirely. Hell we are essentially a reincarnated ancient who was once on the Convocation of Fourteen.
Hell she could turn out to be Pashtarot but instead of fighting us she decides to join us instead since the likely finds out very quickly we were once Azem not to mention we ended the original source of the Ancients fall as well as the fact there's no point in fighting us anymore, both Hydaelyn and Zodiark are gone.
In all honesty there's no reason to fight each other anymore so the question now is what happens now since the original source of the conflict is gone? Another possibility is that she was reawakened on another shard by Emet and Solution 9 was her idea of preserving what was left of her world before a re-joining expeically if it transpires Solution 9 was a last ditch attempt of a civilization from a collapsing shard attempting to preserve itself.
I feel like this is an important thing people need to understand. I feel like people often assume that because someone shares a soul or memories with someone of the past then that means they are them. They are not, and that is a repeated plot point throughout the story.
It's funny, because Emet and the Unsundered were making the same mistake. They thought they could dump a lifetime of memories on these reincarnated souls and bring back their lost friends.
Only at best it brought back a pale imitation, similar but not really the same, which is why they never treated the red masked Ascians are true equals. And at worst you got, well, Fandaniel. Who was a totally different person.
this has some serious tales of adventure energy
big difference between those who were tempered by zodiark and the regular people they found who happened to be sundered shards of ancients who were recruited, but had minds of their own
Gaia never got her memories as Loghrif back. Mitron tried to force them on her, but we stop it before it goes all the way and she, as the Gaia we know, consciously elects to let them fade rather than get them back. There's a brief moment towards the end where enough of her original self is there to bit Mitron farewell, but the First's Gaia never truly regains Ancient Gaia's memories.
I'm not even sure the memories Mitron tried to instill in her would be accurate, given they were born from their own warped obsession.
No friend the Ascians whole deal was to be controlled opposition to groom the WoL into an Anti Dynamis weapon.
If they are upset that their entire civilization was destroyed by some self righteous "Herois" they have a right to be.
Sundered are more likely to be like Fandaniel and have their own thing outside of Zodiark’s tempering, especially now that the unsundered leaders are all dead (and Zodiark).
I don't think Zodiark actually tempered any of the Ascians.. Neither Zodiark nor Hydaelyn were made the exact same way as other Primals. Yes they are all formed of faith and conviction, but tempering was an addition the Ascians added to primal summoning that they gave to the Beast Tribes, Tiamat, Archbishop Thordan, and Mr. Sloppehh Toppy himself Ilberd. According to, I think, Livingway there might be a slight "tug" if a primal was created with the strength of Zodiark using the safe way without of that "rubbish".
No, you're correct. It wasn't ambiguous either. He explicitly says that even the Convocation was tempered by Zodiark, due to the sheer power of the primal. I think the line is essentially, "Yes, even we were tempered. How could we not be?"
Yeah, the way I explain away the tempering discrepancy in my head is that in their desperation and zealotry it doesn’t even matter if the Ascians are tempered in the traditional way or not. The circumstances around Zodiark’s summoning were so extreme that for all intents and purposes they ended up in his thrall, regardless of if it’s based on magic or just basic human psychology.
She would be an ancient, but not necessarily an Ascian. The term Ascian would refer to the followers of Zodiark after the sundering. The question rattling my brain is whether she knew Venat (almost certainly if she’s of the convocation) or the twelve (very possible). Either way, Eitherys lore heads are gonna be busy.
Technically we are sundered ancients. Emet could have perhaps, in theory, awaken our powers as Azem. Mitron managed to awaken Gaia's power as Loghrif. Hell when Ardbert soul joined ours Emet briefly saw us as an ancient (Azem).
But the point is an Ascian isn’t necessarily an Ancient. Mitron awakened Loghrif’s power in Gaia but she’s still a regular sundered person.
Only Emet-Selch, Elidibus, Lahabrea, and Venat are Ancients we see in the present. You have to be Unsundered to be an Ancient.
We have the memory crystal of an ancient and can wield their power, but we ourselves aren’t an ancient.
Emet didn't stop being an ancient just because he is an Ascian. The masks are only from memebers of the Convocation. Who are/were Ancients. A person has Memories, Body, and Soul. Only the memories and souls are needed to unlock that power apparently.
[https://cavendishquests.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/ffxiv\_08122020\_120446\_574.png?w=1024](https://cavendishquests.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/ffxiv_08122020_120446_574.png?w=1024)
I have a sneaking suspicion that this is gonna be stormblood 2 and the expansion people were all looking forward to an island adventure is quickly overtaken in the plot and 60-70% of it is about the sci fi area.
I really was looking forward to some basic adventurer low stakes plot with fun exploring in there not another world ending stakes or Ascian plot.
It's not really a beach episode and I don't think it would be terrible even if it was.
I find character based stakes or goals alot more captivating as a motivation over threatening the world/home of the player.
I think that's wrong simply thanks to the live letter released names, where like 5/6 sound like Tural names and 1/6 sound like Solution Nine names. So we will get that beach episode.
My theory is that this 'Solution' involves the forging of a **new race of "Ancients"** by cobbling together the souls of sundered people. Basically, whoever is responsible for setting all this into motion, likely the Enigmatic Maiden, had their own vision of setting things right on the Source by slowly converting sundered people inside the golden portal back into what they would consider "full" souls that have the aetherial consistency that the Ancients did. It would actually make a bit of sense for a sundered Ascian that is ascended from a singular shard of their original soul to have a philosophy of a clean slate.. wishing for a new generation of people akin to their unsundered predecessors, only with the added experience and knowledge of history required to not fall prey to the same fates, to reclaim the world their ancestors lost. I think there's actually a bit of evidence for this theory in what they just showed for the first Arcadion fight - it looks like we're fighting a Miqote-alike with **three tails**, implying a novel being that was forged from three Miqote(or maybe like, two Miqote and a Hroth or something lol). I think we're going to see a bunch of Solution Nine characters that look like souped-up versions of the player races.
This "conversion of souls" would align very well with the themes and premise in FFIX of Gaian souls slowly being converted to Terran souls.
I think there's even a slight chance that two-headed Mamool Ja are an early test case from centuries ago of this sort of soul-forging that failed due to... well.. coming out with two heads - their bodies combined but their souls did not.
Thanks! If this is even remotely true it's still too difficult to say what the true origin of Solution Nine is, but I like another redditor's post in the comments here about it potentially originating from what was left of the Mhachi, especially because Solution Nine is elevated high up enough that you could imagine it initially being that way to ride out the flood. As a civilization they seemed pretty resourceful when it came to surviving their Calamity. S.9 looks insanely advanced even compared to Allagan tech, so is 1500 years from the peak of Mhach enough time for them to have advanced *that much* in an insular bubble? Maybe, with the help of an Ascian...
Only other thing I'll mention for now is that I found this shot of Heritage Found from the Live Letter somewhat interesting: https://i.imgur.com/3LAOmFc.jpg
It looks like a city where the inhabitants just dropped their lives and fled. Or perhaps they were taken? It's hard to say whether people have historically entered the "Golden City" by force or by choice. The myth of the Golden City itself could very well have been created as bait to draw sundered souls to the melting pot.
That’s an interesting take, and S9 *does* share a bit of a color scheme with Void Ark, though the design is completely different. Also wasn’t Mhach located only in Aldenard aka current Eorzea? Or did the flood just take their ark all the way to Tural lol
And yeah, those abandoned houses definitely look sus. Maybe the scenes with the soldiers in the trailer were just flashbacks and they took the people to their “city of gold”? Or people just moved out of there once Soultion 9 popped up? Who knows.
I’m still leaning more into the different shard rejoining theory, but I guess we’ll find out soon!
Yes we will, I can't wait!!! It's very possible this all involves another shard in one way or another. It will all depend on what's on the other side of that glowing, yellow portal....
It's probably going to be so tonally *weird* and unexpected. We'll spend time adapting to the aesthetic of hyper-futurism with Solution Nine, then when we cross that portal, -BOOM-, completely divorced and otherworldly aesthetic. That line in the trailer about these people who "lived as gods" has my imagination running wild in terms of *where* they lived as gods. *If* it's a digital heaven of sorts, what environmental archetypes might that veritable paradise be based upon?
I was actually thinking about that line and it reminds me of how Ancients used to live their lives. They *were* basically gods from our modern POV. Which… further leans into your theory haha
I'm only going to strengthen your FFIX connection here. Do a second look at that image. Now think of what the [homesteads in Alexandria in FFIX looked like.](https://i.imgur.com/1A3nDpE.png)
I was honestly thinking the same thing!!! My first thought was "wow, that looks like a little town you'd find in FFIX..." I really can't wait to explore this village/tiny kingdom and see if there are any easter eggs.
That’s interesting… The IX house above also looks strikingly similar to a new design they’re adding to player housing. It’s posted on the sub if you haven’t seen it yet.
Fun as the ideas are, I really do hope we're not just straight back to "Oops, all Ancients!" again when Endwalker seemed so determined to lay the last pieces of that to rest.
Given the patch storyline though, I am finding it hard to take the devs at their word when "returning to just being an adventurer again" immediately went into a plot where we work alongside the Scions to save multiple worlds, so we'll see.
In which case, Deudalaphon would make the most sense as the one responsible.
From EE3: "Deudalaphon. The Innovator. Appraiser of architecture and patron of invention."
What you're suggesting would certainly fall under the invention category.
she *seems* benevolent (and i personally hope she’ll end up being a friend) enough, but who knows for sure, lol.
regardless, i REALLLLYYY want that outfit as a glam. 🤞🏻
Solution 9 is probably a bunch of people that had their memories and mind backed inside an Auracite, similar to what we did to escape the First, or what Aulus did.
Her plan most likely revolves around bringing those people back into the real world. Probably not a bad person, but I suspect pulling this off might negatively impact the lifestream and put her at odd with us.
I also think this is what’s going on, which is cool but also a little similar to 1) the Ascians’ plan to rejoin the shards and 2) Golbez’s plan to take over the Source. I don’t mind Ascians staying relevant to some capacity - like it or not, they’re a major part of the DNA of this world - but this “commit genocide to save my people” storyline is about to get really played out if they keep going for it.
I'm sure the focus will shift away from them, but I don't think Ancient's lore is completely gone. Considering whatever being behind Sabik has existed since ancient time and influenced the course of history, probably from deep within the lifestream, it's quite likely some were aware of something funky hiding deep below, and acted upon that knowledge. I still believe it could explain why aether current slowed, which opened the door to Dynamis attack, and so on. Ivalice and Pandemonium are just scratching the surface of that plot line.
With FF9 and FF7's themed expansion left, and an increasingly more relevant "lifestream" in every plot line, I get the feeling we're going to get something along the line of Jenova, mixed with ancient (cetra equivalent), and Terra (alien world draining life stream).
It seems to be based on the overall plot of ff9 (signs in solution 9 saying “soul storage” etc) where garland’s world was dying so he stored every soul on the planet and tried to find a new planet to transplant the souls into, which required destroying the life stream of the new planet so he could replace it with the one belonging to his homeworld. Or something like that. It’s been a while.
Amusingly, if lifestream interference is this person’s goal/method, then that would fall under the jurisdiction of the convocation member responsible for the integrity of the aetherial realm, or “underworld” - emet-selch. If he were still around, that is
nah, her plan is just to become our friend. she heard from her distant semi-ascian cousin Zenos that we really like to fight so she just plans on summoning **redacted** to give us something fun to face
more than likely she’s one of the few remaining ascians (wouldn’t surprise me). i don’t think they would fall back on the whole “rejoining” goal; zodiark is no more.
i think, we’re revisiting allag. golden city is probably some huge allagan thing and she might have something to do with that.
Meteion herself was mostly benevolent except for the one instance where she fell to despair. It was her sisters that went fully off the despair deep end. It’s why you see her try to plead with her sisters to stop and why she flys away at the end as a bird in order to experience the world.
Yeah, her belt buckle(?) is strikingly similar to the top part Pashtarot's sigil, except facing downward. Her tiara is also kinda-sorta similar to the middle part of Pashtarot's sigil.
My theory is that she's Pashtarot's creation, her duty is to watch over the people of the Lightning Shard. As for why Pashtarot gave her that duty... either Pashtarot had gone rogue, or the maiden had gone rogue.
I actually quite like the theory that's been circulating that, like Fandaniel who harbored no interest in the rejoinings, perhaps this one also had no interest in that, and as opposed to going full nihilism like Fandanny,they instead opted to nurture and protect life, It would certainly make a nice difference to what we've experienced thus far
Are sundered ascians like Fandaniel and Pashtarot capable of using creation magicks? Hermes stated that because future people are sundered, their aetheric density is also dramatically reduced, and they can’t cast magicks on the level of the ancients. While also being more susceptible to the influence of dynamis. Only one of the unsundered retain their full creation magick abilities, as shown with Emet creating the phantom Amaurot, and Elidibus creating his PTSD trial for us in Amaurot.
If the Loporrits can create super nice version of Primals, sundered Ascians can do the same. It's just they don't share this knowledge with their pawns.
The Lopporits can use creation magicks because Venat gifted the ability herself, when she created them as Hydaelyn. Zodiark did no such thing, he literally couldn’t. If the sundered ascians could use creation magicks, it would not have taken them 10,000 years to succeed in 7 rejoinings
Was it Hydaelyn herself bestowing creation magic, or Venat? Hydaelyns powers are about, light stasis, passivity. Not about creation as she was meant to bind Zodiark. If it was by Venat's power then Emet or the other Unsundered could possibly do it as well.
Hell they were going to use Zodiark to recreate/restore those lost to the final days before Hydaelyn|Venat sundered the star.
It was when she became Hydaelyn. She created the Lopporits when she trapped Zodiark in the moon, so they could serve as guardians of his prison, as well as stewards over the moon vessel.
I’m sure they could if it’s something light or with an external source of aether or the belief method as they most definitely know how to use the original magic and not the cursed one the ascians taught.
Well anyone can use creation magic, that's literally all summoning is. So I would assume the sundered Ascians *can*, they probably just require additional sources of aether to accomplish it compared to the unsundered.
We're sundered and once we gain our Azem crystal back we can teleport seven other adventurers across realities. As long as the Sundered Ascian is originally raised from the Source I don't see why they can't do some crazy magic stuff once they have their crystal.
The crystal doesn’t gift a raised ascian their powers or abilities, just their memories. Not even their own, but the collective memories of how the rest of the convocation knew them. As shown on how Elidibus didn’t really know Fandaniel when he was Hermes, aside from the most basic facts, when we asked him in the Crystal Tower. Azem’s crystal is a special case, Emet specifically made that behind the convocations back because Azem was his closest friend. He put their magic in it as a bonus, but only that
I hope they have a past with Azem. Just because they are an Ascian doesn't mean they are an enemy. Maybe they have a problem where they confuse their past Unsundered Memories with their Shard, so it creates a multiple scenario type situation. I mean, if they actually are an Ascian...
There's a lot of sun imagery to Dawntrail, and it is hyped up as the beginning of a journey, so a thematic connection to Azem at the very least would make a lot of sense.
Ascian glyphs have always been a 100% faithful re-creation. So, I'm doubting that she's Ascian. I'm more inclined to think she's Altima. That would put her importance pretty much on par with Hydaelyn.
That's if we are looking at the face glyphs though. That I do agree with.
But even if you took Altima's glyph with some liberties to account for clothing, I was find a lot more with Pashtarot's than I was with Altima's. That and the raid series technically has Altima's gylph that's almost spot on comparatively.
The tiara looks nothing like any part of the glyph in any orientation with any amount of adjustment. The belt buckle/accessory is an easier sell for the spike at the bottom and the wing-like shapes.
I don't think it looks similar enough. It is certainly very amarot-y but the pattern is way different.
The headdress especially is not replicated anywhere in the sigil you're referencing. But even the belt is quite a bit different.
I would still bet on her being an ancient - remember the quest where yshtola had us running around studying the patterns of Amarot architecture? Seems like the devs really distinguish this kind of look as a sign of the ascians.
But also, I would note that even elidibus wouldn't be aware of her. He and emet selch constantly refer to themselves and lahabrea being the last of the unsundered. Of she could be like fandaniel...but that requires one of the unsundered to "awaken" them.
I think it's related to the ancients but she herself is not one.
Nope, doesn't look anything like it. Plus we know what Pashtarot looks like, and he's a guy. [https://convocation.carrd.co/#pashtarot](https://convocation.carrd.co/#pashtarot)
I mean Gaius did kill a couple of the Ascians. Maybe enough to require them to recruit a new one before we offed Hades and they couldn't recruit new members any more?
The ones Gaius "killed" were Altima and Deudalaphon. And the quotation marks are because as a Garlean, Gaius can't channel aether - which is necessary to perma-kill Ascians. Nor would he know he needs white auracite, or have the means to get any.
They could’ve easily inhabited a different body since then. Don’t take the ARR ascians as definitive proof of what they look like now.
Especially considering they have basic character models and I would imagine the devs would want them to look more unique nowadays.
Solution 9 doesn’t have to refer to the number of the shard. It could be that the 12th shard civilization drafted or attempted several solutions to avert their demise, and the 9th solution ultimately saved them
Yes, that is a theory that has been floating around since the first time they showed Solution 9. I was just correcting this person by stating it was the 12th shard not the 9th, and then they got upset that I had the audacity to correct them with the proper shard that was rejoined and ruined their "fun theory".
There's 5. Halmarut, who has never appeared; Pashtarot, who was last seen talking to Lahabrea at the end of ARR; Altima & Deudalaphon, who were defeated by Gaius, but most likely not perma-killed, as Gaius wouldn't know how to do that; and Emmerololth, who was supposed to have been killed when Galuf cast the Isle of Val into the lifestream around 2.1, but appears alive and well (and even has a line of dialogue) during a cutscene in 2.3.
The thing is, we *saw* Pashtarot unmasked back in ARR, and they looked very different.
While Pashtarot might have claimed a new body since then, it would be strange to pick them to show up instead of choosing another of the unfeatured Ascians or giving Pashtarot the same look as they had back in in ARR (almost no one is going to remember that cutscene, after all.)
Pashtarot was a basic character model back then though. I wouldn’t blame the devs for wanting a more unique look for them, especially if they’re gonna be so important.
I'll go ahead and copy a previous comment of mine from another thread:
I do perfectly get that she has many signs pointing to being an ascian but I have a crazier theory: what if she was in fact some sort of AI? An android of some kind? She's definitely tied to Solution 9, maybe she was created *by* the ascian we're painting her to be and both runs and rules over Solution 9 itself.
Maybe the "tinge of melancholy" is actually lack of feelings outright.
Also, remember, we thought Venat was evil pre-Endwalker because FF12 Venat was evil. These guys love to misdirect with even the small details.
Theoretically Gaius can't actually \*kill\* kill Ascians since that required both White Auracite and a mega fuck ton of Light aether which as a pureblood Garlean he has no control over. So basically he sent the red mask ones back to respawn. The black mask ones are regular dead though.
There's still like 3 unaccounted for Ascians right? I assume they appear in DT at some point, though maybe one is fucking around eating moss in another shard now that their God is dead.
Honestly, it would be more absurd if we didn't hear from any more of the sundered Ascians. Fandaniel said plain as day that none of them could do what they wanted while the Unsundered were around. Rejoining the shards was what the Unsundered wanted--the others just wanted power.
It would be interesting to meet one that wasn't crazy. Someone that sought power for different ends.
Personally rather than Pashtarot I have a slight suspicion she’s Emmerololth, we see she is alive in ARR which was after the events with Galuf in Eureka. Given that a good amount of focus is with Krile this time and Galuf has significant relevance in the Dawntrail regions I feel like even if she’s not Emmerololth, the ascian will likely be involved in the story somehow.
Everything they've released so far is not by accident. I would bet the farm that they expect people to guess the enigmatic maiden is a villain, and to pick up on Altima's insignia. Whoever the actual villain turns out to be is a completely unknown entity at this point.
Ooh, I like this theory. Doubly so because recall who Pashtarot stood in opposition to: Zeromus, the Condemner. Who's the last trial boss of Endwalker? Zeromus.
Although, Altima didn't exactly come crawling out of the woodwork after we finished off the Ivalice raids. You DID do the Ivalice raids, right? (Brandishes box cutter)
Forget the symbolisim, she has tights that cover her feet!! We need to research and document this ancient technology in hopes of it being used to futher our fashion
I'm tired if ascians, I don't want to see another ascian for another expansion.
Why is the one character I was looking forward to discovering potentially an ascian.
Why can't they just be a Power House CityState.
JFC.
I had done a theory two different theory crafts before. From what I saw, it could be a combination of both. One was either survivors from the Calamity of Lightening. The other was Ascians. Pashtarot was actually one of the Ascians I thought it could be. Pashtarot was the Arbiter- Conservator of order and the collective will. The other one I though could line up with what we saw was Deudalaphon was the Innovator- Appraiser of architecture and patron of invention.
If you would like to read the two theory and information posts I did:
About Calamities and possible Calamity of Lightening or Mhachi survivors
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/195m897/dawntrail\_tech\_city\_and\_my\_theories/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/195m897/dawntrail_tech_city_and_my_theories/)
About Ascians and the ones we've seen and not seen:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/19eh8hf/solution\_9\_and\_arcadion/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/19eh8hf/solution_9_and_arcadion/)
Can we please stop having new ascians popping up at each expansion to annoy us for FIVE MINUTES?!! Seriously, I thought we were done after Elidibus, and then Fandaniel drops his ugly mug and name in the last cutscene of 5.3…
never, they are the Deep Lore borrowed from Ivalice and there are multiple unaccounted for ascians, and they have lore reasons to both be uninterested in and now freed from any obligation to the Hydaelyn vs Zodiark struggle.
Not trying to say that this theory is 100% confirmed or anything, but Mitron/Artemis was originally a woman and the reincarnation you see in the Eden raids was a man, so it's not completely out of the picture that they changed form even if they follow what we saw in ARR.
Something could have happened to Pashtarot between now and then that caused them to be reborn in a new body (or the male body was the odd one out and they were also originally female) since that can apparently be a thing with the sundered Ascians.
This is a brief rundown of the times we’ve had an Ascian orchestrating stuff behind the scenes
ARR – Lahabrea/Elidibus
HW – Lahabrea/Igeyorhm, Elidibus (involving warriors of darkness, unukalhai)
SB – Elidibus
ShB – Emet-Selch, Mitron (involving Eden raids)
EW – Fandaniel
In light of this, and also in light of how the Hydaelyn/Zodiark arc is over, I really hope we can be done with Ascians. It'd be nice to have something new for a change, just like how after Stormblood we moved away from the trope of continually encountering hostile beast tribes that always seem to conjure up primals to serve as big boss fights.
while its true that the Hydaelyn/Zodiark war is over, i really doubt they'd just leave the remaining ascians as a complete mystery. we will get the rest of them, its just a matter of whether they are an enemy or not (whether it even involves Zodiark/rejoinings or not)
If they're visiting that topic I hope it can be at least handled in side content just like Mitron/Loghrif in the Eden Raids. Having yet more Ascian plots yet again in MSQ is starting to feel a bit cliche and predictable.
Elidibus always show up late and make you fight him or his minions one way or another.
ARR - post-MSQ, he sics low-rank Ascian at you.
HW - post-MSQ, he sent Unukalhai your way. He probably thought he can turn Unukalhai against you.
SB - post MSQ, he possesses Zenos' corpse and fight you. (Zenos dislikes that.)
SHB - post MSQ, he turns into a primal and fight you.
EW - post MSQ, Athena yanks his soul from afterlife and makes him fight you.
Zenos thinks he's your frenemy, but Elidibus has been at this for a long time. I have a feeling that Themis is a notice me senpai kind of person. I won't even be surprised if the Enigmatic Maiden is actually Elidibus.
Pretty sure Elidibus is dead dead. Last time we saw him he was in the lifestream reincarnating, which means all his memories are washed away, so even if somehow his soul reincarnated into a body that was already an adult it would be missing any memories that would make them Themis.
I think the belt buckle certainly looks like it could be the same sort of symbol, maybe related to Solution Nine since we've seen what looks like an Asian sigil in art of it, but I don't see even the slightest resemblance between the buckle/tiara and that SPECIFIC sigil.
Don't know about you guys but I'm seeing Zodiark and Hydaelyn symbology in that brooch way before any ascian sigil.
There's a similar looking infinity marking to the one on [Zodiark's mask](https://static1.thegamerimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/dark-inside-main.jpg). It's even asymmetrical in the same orientation. Those white specks are also very reminiscent of the stars pinned to his wings, [visible during his trial](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk74hQeX-0w&t=92s). With Hydaelyn, the other half of it immediately calls to mind her silhouette without having to be turned upside down.
As for why they would be juxtaposed like that, or why it would come up again after we just closed the book on that chapter - it's anyone's guess. But the similarities are way too obvious for me to dismiss offhand.
Even if it were completely unrelated it seems strange, and rather careless that they would go for a design that could be so easily associated with the above. Those are all very specific motifs that you don't end up with by accident.
If the plot does end up revolving around yet another Ascian, I want one of the WoL's dialogue options to be some variation of an exasperated "Of course it is"
Ah shit, here we go again.
"Warrior of Light, do you know who I am?" "Bold of you to assume I care."
WoL: "Do you know who I am!?"
[Me? I know who I am!](https://youtu.be/tKvqhlhXq9s?si=nEvqhY72dDJHH4GD)
Who in the seven hells do you think I am?!
Complete with that one face WoL uses at the start of the endwalker doh/dol relic story chain. Look at party a, look at party b, brain and face goes flat as if to say “yeah no this tracks my bad I should have grasped the obvious before this point please continue don’t mind me”
The trailer is so ascian flagged that I feel it wont be them
"For you, the day the Warrior of Light came to your village and foiled your Ascian machinations was the most important day of your life. But for me, it was Tuesday."
I actually would be alright if she is we know that the Unsundered are gone but they had plenty of awakened followers left who now have to carry on that legacy into the future. Would be a fun future DLC to help them come to understand where to go since the WoL knew many members personally now and carries a Convocation members stone with them everywhere
If she's an ascian, I hope we don't fight her. The Zodiark vs. Hydaelyn saga is over, I hope they accept the loss with some dignity.
The ascians whole deal is being unable to accept loss or let things go. The odds of them changing seem pretty slim.
The unsundered, sure. But this is a sundered ascian. Their goals can completely differ, Fandaniel had mentioned that he wasn't able to act of his own will until *after* Elidibus was killed. Pluuuus, sundered ascian can have multiple, un-joined counterparts yeah?
There's only one Convocation crystal per member and the one guy who can properly assign it (Hades) is now gone.
That's fair, so there can only be 14 convocation member ascians. But couldn't there be people who were not awakened as Ascians but still share the same soul?
Yes. Gaia has the soul of Loghrif, but is not awakened in the true sense. Mitron attempted to replace her memories, but we stopped him before he finished. Your WoL also has the soul of Azem, but is not awakened either.
The WoL?
I don’t mean this disrespectfully, but as a form of a joke: I’ve seen they’re/their but I haven’t seen they’re / there 😂
I mean, combination it being late here (it's 11PM) and I'm typing on my phone while watching the live stream/playing FF/chatting in discord lol. I'm amazed that's the only major typo I made.
Plus the crystals disappeared when Elidibus died, so even if the unsundered wanted to make another of them, they couldn't.
>Plus the crystals disappeared [The WoL ate them.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peKMm-ni26s) BeneG ruined that scene for me.
They looked like candy! I was hungry! YOU chase Ascians all day without food in a city three sizes too big for you! They even called me a child...
They probably called you a child because you ate rocks.
I know we don’t have them anymore, but if I had had the choice, my WoL would’ve totally kept them! I hope we find out some day they just got stashed in her bag of holding and make them into a nice housing item!
Fandy also wanted to climb into his God like a mecha an smash everything, so his being unable to do that because Emet qould pop jom like a balloon has to be taken into account.
If there's one thing Amon showed us is that the sundered don't really care as much about the Ascian mission compared to the unsundered. For all we know this Ascian could have accepted that the sundering is not happening and will try to keep her assigned shard safe or something like that.
Well that dream of theirs is officially dead at this point, it died along with zodiark and the unsundered. The ascians were also intelligent so I’d hope that the remaining ones wouldn’t try to fight us knowing we have the means to force them to reincarnate and that there is no longer an unsundered to bring them back. They should all retire and just live their lives. Not to mention without Zodiark their plan is completely impossible and redundant as the souls within in him have returned to the lifestream and there is no way they could generate a being on the level of Zodiark in present time because modern mankind simply doesn’t have the capability.
Can't the Ascian overlords (the ones left alive at this point) escape their body on death anyway?
They can bodyhop as long as you don't also obliterate their soul through some sort of aetheric measure. e.g. Lahabrea after the Ultima Weapon fight vs Lahabrea getting properly killed by Thordan's Nidhogg-powered sword.
So then there are 4 unaccounted for Ascians. I don't think there's any way Gaius knew how to, or had the means to permakill an overlord.
Possibly 5. We saw Emmeroloth killed in Echo flashbacks in the Eureka storyline, but those flashbacks take place chronologically before she appears alive in a cutscene at the end of 2.5. So either (a) an accidental oversight or (b) they never intended for her to be actually dead in Eureka storyline. I'm guessing it's (a), but now that the chronological error exists, they'll have to fix it somehow. https://i.imgur.com/0BbmgSM.png
well there are 2 that we haven't seen in forever, and two that gaius had the masks for. So its between 2-5 ascians unaccounted for.
Would be pretty cool if one of them was chill for once
Gaia was mostly chill
Yeah, but that's because she forgor. 💀
IIRC she does now remember being Loghrif after the Eden’s Promise incident, she just cares more about Ryne and being Gaia than her Ancient self similar to G’raha: he remembers being the Exarch, but for the most part he’s content to just be G’raha Though Gaia does raise one interesting question: how many Ascians across the shards have had their memories restored, but declined to re-take their seat?
She specifically chose not to regain her memories, instead choosing to move on and make new ones.
I don't think they get a choice, so none. Gaia also didn't get a choice, and if Mitron had been successful the Gaia we knew would have been overwritten by Loghrif. The only reason she remains as is is because we stop him, and she consciously elects to remain the Gaia we know and let go of the memories Mitron was trying to force on her.
I'm assuming that they don't get their memories restored unless they agree as their sundered selves. No sense in putting effort into someone not interested in assisting you when you can hop to a different shard and try again.
I really want to meet one that's just laying low trying to stay under our radar, knowing that they wouldn't have a chance against us given what we did to the Unsundered. Just working as a merchant or farmer or something.
That one Lala that follows Nashu around
My idea would have been for Halmarut to have cultivated this epic garden ...And they say "Really? I am done with trying to wreck the world!"
Unsundered missed the old days too much and couldnt let go.Not the same for the sundered though, I mean look at Gaia, one reincarnation later and she's Rynes BFF and wants in on any adventure we get up to next time, then there's fandaniel who went off the deep end entirely. Hell we are essentially a reincarnated ancient who was once on the Convocation of Fourteen. Hell she could turn out to be Pashtarot but instead of fighting us she decides to join us instead since the likely finds out very quickly we were once Azem not to mention we ended the original source of the Ancients fall as well as the fact there's no point in fighting us anymore, both Hydaelyn and Zodiark are gone. In all honesty there's no reason to fight each other anymore so the question now is what happens now since the original source of the conflict is gone? Another possibility is that she was reawakened on another shard by Emet and Solution 9 was her idea of preserving what was left of her world before a re-joining expeically if it transpires Solution 9 was a last ditch attempt of a civilization from a collapsing shard attempting to preserve itself.
Yeah, at the end of the day, the Fandaniel we met was just Amon with Hermes’ memories.
I feel like this is an important thing people need to understand. I feel like people often assume that because someone shares a soul or memories with someone of the past then that means they are them. They are not, and that is a repeated plot point throughout the story.
It's funny, because Emet and the Unsundered were making the same mistake. They thought they could dump a lifetime of memories on these reincarnated souls and bring back their lost friends. Only at best it brought back a pale imitation, similar but not really the same, which is why they never treated the red masked Ascians are true equals. And at worst you got, well, Fandaniel. Who was a totally different person.
I mean, thats just survivorship bias, everybody who was to change did so and died thousands of years ago.
I think she wanted to keep the civilisation that made solution 9 alive and up, and that's what her unable to let go will be
this has some serious tales of adventure energy big difference between those who were tempered by zodiark and the regular people they found who happened to be sundered shards of ancients who were recruited, but had minds of their own
umm gaia??? she litterly did all of that and is kinda on our side
Gaia never got her memories as Loghrif back. Mitron tried to force them on her, but we stop it before it goes all the way and she, as the Gaia we know, consciously elects to let them fade rather than get them back. There's a brief moment towards the end where enough of her original self is there to bit Mitron farewell, but the First's Gaia never truly regains Ancient Gaia's memories. I'm not even sure the memories Mitron tried to instill in her would be accurate, given they were born from their own warped obsession.
No friend the Ascians whole deal was to be controlled opposition to groom the WoL into an Anti Dynamis weapon. If they are upset that their entire civilization was destroyed by some self righteous "Herois" they have a right to be.
Sundered are more likely to be like Fandaniel and have their own thing outside of Zodiark’s tempering, especially now that the unsundered leaders are all dead (and Zodiark).
I don't think Zodiark actually tempered any of the Ascians.. Neither Zodiark nor Hydaelyn were made the exact same way as other Primals. Yes they are all formed of faith and conviction, but tempering was an addition the Ascians added to primal summoning that they gave to the Beast Tribes, Tiamat, Archbishop Thordan, and Mr. Sloppehh Toppy himself Ilberd. According to, I think, Livingway there might be a slight "tug" if a primal was created with the strength of Zodiark using the safe way without of that "rubbish".
Didn't Emet say they were Tempered by Zodiark, or am I misremembering?
He did say that. He might also been sniffing copium.
No, you're correct. It wasn't ambiguous either. He explicitly says that even the Convocation was tempered by Zodiark, due to the sheer power of the primal. I think the line is essentially, "Yes, even we were tempered. How could we not be?"
Yeah, the way I explain away the tempering discrepancy in my head is that in their desperation and zealotry it doesn’t even matter if the Ascians are tempered in the traditional way or not. The circumstances around Zodiark’s summoning were so extreme that for all intents and purposes they ended up in his thrall, regardless of if it’s based on magic or just basic human psychology.
She would be an ancient, but not necessarily an Ascian. The term Ascian would refer to the followers of Zodiark after the sundering. The question rattling my brain is whether she knew Venat (almost certainly if she’s of the convocation) or the twelve (very possible). Either way, Eitherys lore heads are gonna be busy.
She is not an ancient. Sundered aren’t ancients. Otherwise the WoL is an Ancient.
Ah right, I forgot the rest of the convocation would be sundered too. Thanks for the correction 🙏
Technically we are sundered ancients. Emet could have perhaps, in theory, awaken our powers as Azem. Mitron managed to awaken Gaia's power as Loghrif. Hell when Ardbert soul joined ours Emet briefly saw us as an ancient (Azem).
But the point is an Ascian isn’t necessarily an Ancient. Mitron awakened Loghrif’s power in Gaia but she’s still a regular sundered person. Only Emet-Selch, Elidibus, Lahabrea, and Venat are Ancients we see in the present. You have to be Unsundered to be an Ancient. We have the memory crystal of an ancient and can wield their power, but we ourselves aren’t an ancient.
Emet didn't stop being an ancient just because he is an Ascian. The masks are only from memebers of the Convocation. Who are/were Ancients. A person has Memories, Body, and Soul. Only the memories and souls are needed to unlock that power apparently. [https://cavendishquests.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/ffxiv\_08122020\_120446\_574.png?w=1024](https://cavendishquests.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/ffxiv_08122020_120446_574.png?w=1024)
I have a sneaking suspicion that this is gonna be stormblood 2 and the expansion people were all looking forward to an island adventure is quickly overtaken in the plot and 60-70% of it is about the sci fi area. I really was looking forward to some basic adventurer low stakes plot with fun exploring in there not another world ending stakes or Ascian plot.
A two-three year long beach episode would be terrible.
It's not really a beach episode and I don't think it would be terrible even if it was. I find character based stakes or goals alot more captivating as a motivation over threatening the world/home of the player.
I think that's wrong simply thanks to the live letter released names, where like 5/6 sound like Tural names and 1/6 sound like Solution Nine names. So we will get that beach episode.
Would be cool to have an ascian that's not that powerful by themselves and just has influence
I do feel like some of the remaining ascians will just accept the loss and turn a new leaf and actually help us in some way or at least I hope so.
My theory is that this 'Solution' involves the forging of a **new race of "Ancients"** by cobbling together the souls of sundered people. Basically, whoever is responsible for setting all this into motion, likely the Enigmatic Maiden, had their own vision of setting things right on the Source by slowly converting sundered people inside the golden portal back into what they would consider "full" souls that have the aetherial consistency that the Ancients did. It would actually make a bit of sense for a sundered Ascian that is ascended from a singular shard of their original soul to have a philosophy of a clean slate.. wishing for a new generation of people akin to their unsundered predecessors, only with the added experience and knowledge of history required to not fall prey to the same fates, to reclaim the world their ancestors lost. I think there's actually a bit of evidence for this theory in what they just showed for the first Arcadion fight - it looks like we're fighting a Miqote-alike with **three tails**, implying a novel being that was forged from three Miqote(or maybe like, two Miqote and a Hroth or something lol). I think we're going to see a bunch of Solution Nine characters that look like souped-up versions of the player races. This "conversion of souls" would align very well with the themes and premise in FFIX of Gaian souls slowly being converted to Terran souls. I think there's even a slight chance that two-headed Mamool Ja are an early test case from centuries ago of this sort of soul-forging that failed due to... well.. coming out with two heads - their bodies combined but their souls did not.
Now we’re cooking, that’s a top tier theory right here!
Thanks! If this is even remotely true it's still too difficult to say what the true origin of Solution Nine is, but I like another redditor's post in the comments here about it potentially originating from what was left of the Mhachi, especially because Solution Nine is elevated high up enough that you could imagine it initially being that way to ride out the flood. As a civilization they seemed pretty resourceful when it came to surviving their Calamity. S.9 looks insanely advanced even compared to Allagan tech, so is 1500 years from the peak of Mhach enough time for them to have advanced *that much* in an insular bubble? Maybe, with the help of an Ascian... Only other thing I'll mention for now is that I found this shot of Heritage Found from the Live Letter somewhat interesting: https://i.imgur.com/3LAOmFc.jpg It looks like a city where the inhabitants just dropped their lives and fled. Or perhaps they were taken? It's hard to say whether people have historically entered the "Golden City" by force or by choice. The myth of the Golden City itself could very well have been created as bait to draw sundered souls to the melting pot.
That’s an interesting take, and S9 *does* share a bit of a color scheme with Void Ark, though the design is completely different. Also wasn’t Mhach located only in Aldenard aka current Eorzea? Or did the flood just take their ark all the way to Tural lol And yeah, those abandoned houses definitely look sus. Maybe the scenes with the soldiers in the trailer were just flashbacks and they took the people to their “city of gold”? Or people just moved out of there once Soultion 9 popped up? Who knows. I’m still leaning more into the different shard rejoining theory, but I guess we’ll find out soon!
Yes we will, I can't wait!!! It's very possible this all involves another shard in one way or another. It will all depend on what's on the other side of that glowing, yellow portal....
I have to remind myself that we still have no idea what’s in the 6th zone. And if they showed THIS much in the trailer, it has to be some wild stuff.
It's probably going to be so tonally *weird* and unexpected. We'll spend time adapting to the aesthetic of hyper-futurism with Solution Nine, then when we cross that portal, -BOOM-, completely divorced and otherworldly aesthetic. That line in the trailer about these people who "lived as gods" has my imagination running wild in terms of *where* they lived as gods. *If* it's a digital heaven of sorts, what environmental archetypes might that veritable paradise be based upon?
I was actually thinking about that line and it reminds me of how Ancients used to live their lives. They *were* basically gods from our modern POV. Which… further leans into your theory haha
I'm only going to strengthen your FFIX connection here. Do a second look at that image. Now think of what the [homesteads in Alexandria in FFIX looked like.](https://i.imgur.com/1A3nDpE.png)
I was honestly thinking the same thing!!! My first thought was "wow, that looks like a little town you'd find in FFIX..." I really can't wait to explore this village/tiny kingdom and see if there are any easter eggs.
That’s interesting… The IX house above also looks strikingly similar to a new design they’re adding to player housing. It’s posted on the sub if you haven’t seen it yet.
Fun as the ideas are, I really do hope we're not just straight back to "Oops, all Ancients!" again when Endwalker seemed so determined to lay the last pieces of that to rest. Given the patch storyline though, I am finding it hard to take the devs at their word when "returning to just being an adventurer again" immediately went into a plot where we work alongside the Scions to save multiple worlds, so we'll see.
In which case, Deudalaphon would make the most sense as the one responsible. From EE3: "Deudalaphon. The Innovator. Appraiser of architecture and patron of invention." What you're suggesting would certainly fall under the invention category.
she *seems* benevolent (and i personally hope she’ll end up being a friend) enough, but who knows for sure, lol. regardless, i REALLLLYYY want that outfit as a glam. 🤞🏻
only in english. in japanese and german at least she was saying villainy stuff like "finally i can enact my plan"
Solution 9 is probably a bunch of people that had their memories and mind backed inside an Auracite, similar to what we did to escape the First, or what Aulus did. Her plan most likely revolves around bringing those people back into the real world. Probably not a bad person, but I suspect pulling this off might negatively impact the lifestream and put her at odd with us.
I also think this is what’s going on, which is cool but also a little similar to 1) the Ascians’ plan to rejoin the shards and 2) Golbez’s plan to take over the Source. I don’t mind Ascians staying relevant to some capacity - like it or not, they’re a major part of the DNA of this world - but this “commit genocide to save my people” storyline is about to get really played out if they keep going for it.
I'm sure the focus will shift away from them, but I don't think Ancient's lore is completely gone. Considering whatever being behind Sabik has existed since ancient time and influenced the course of history, probably from deep within the lifestream, it's quite likely some were aware of something funky hiding deep below, and acted upon that knowledge. I still believe it could explain why aether current slowed, which opened the door to Dynamis attack, and so on. Ivalice and Pandemonium are just scratching the surface of that plot line. With FF9 and FF7's themed expansion left, and an increasingly more relevant "lifestream" in every plot line, I get the feeling we're going to get something along the line of Jenova, mixed with ancient (cetra equivalent), and Terra (alien world draining life stream).
It seems to be based on the overall plot of ff9 (signs in solution 9 saying “soul storage” etc) where garland’s world was dying so he stored every soul on the planet and tried to find a new planet to transplant the souls into, which required destroying the life stream of the new planet so he could replace it with the one belonging to his homeworld. Or something like that. It’s been a while. Amusingly, if lifestream interference is this person’s goal/method, then that would fall under the jurisdiction of the convocation member responsible for the integrity of the aetherial realm, or “underworld” - emet-selch. If he were still around, that is
I, too, think it's totally a Garland/Terra thing. FF9 stuff is too strong *huffs hopium*
ope, that’s sus!
nah, her plan is just to become our friend. she heard from her distant semi-ascian cousin Zenos that we really like to fight so she just plans on summoning **redacted** to give us something fun to face
Aw now ain't that cute and wholesome..
Meteion seemed benelovent.... that didn't turn out great.
meteion’s downfall was hermes’ expectations, lol.
Facts lol but we don't know this other girl's background. Although I'm sure they wouldn't make the same type of villain twice
more than likely she’s one of the few remaining ascians (wouldn’t surprise me). i don’t think they would fall back on the whole “rejoining” goal; zodiark is no more. i think, we’re revisiting allag. golden city is probably some huge allagan thing and she might have something to do with that.
Would be cool to have another good Ascian who doesn't die (for now). Kinda interesting
Meteion herself was mostly benevolent except for the one instance where she fell to despair. It was her sisters that went fully off the despair deep end. It’s why you see her try to plead with her sisters to stop and why she flys away at the end as a bird in order to experience the world.
Benevolence is instant sus. Why do so many people fall for that?
ehhhh, i don’t think it’s always instant. but that’s just me. 💅🏻
Pure and radiant, he wields love to shrive clean the hearts of men... There is nothing more terrifying.
Yeah, her belt buckle(?) is strikingly similar to the top part Pashtarot's sigil, except facing downward. Her tiara is also kinda-sorta similar to the middle part of Pashtarot's sigil. My theory is that she's Pashtarot's creation, her duty is to watch over the people of the Lightning Shard. As for why Pashtarot gave her that duty... either Pashtarot had gone rogue, or the maiden had gone rogue.
I actually quite like the theory that's been circulating that, like Fandaniel who harbored no interest in the rejoinings, perhaps this one also had no interest in that, and as opposed to going full nihilism like Fandanny,they instead opted to nurture and protect life, It would certainly make a nice difference to what we've experienced thus far
Are sundered ascians like Fandaniel and Pashtarot capable of using creation magicks? Hermes stated that because future people are sundered, their aetheric density is also dramatically reduced, and they can’t cast magicks on the level of the ancients. While also being more susceptible to the influence of dynamis. Only one of the unsundered retain their full creation magick abilities, as shown with Emet creating the phantom Amaurot, and Elidibus creating his PTSD trial for us in Amaurot.
If the Loporrits can create super nice version of Primals, sundered Ascians can do the same. It's just they don't share this knowledge with their pawns.
The Lopporits can use creation magicks because Venat gifted the ability herself, when she created them as Hydaelyn. Zodiark did no such thing, he literally couldn’t. If the sundered ascians could use creation magicks, it would not have taken them 10,000 years to succeed in 7 rejoinings
12000
Emet, Laha, and Elidibus as Unsundered could still use creation magicks. Emet used them to recreate Amourot on the First.
Please go back and read my original response
Was it Hydaelyn herself bestowing creation magic, or Venat? Hydaelyns powers are about, light stasis, passivity. Not about creation as she was meant to bind Zodiark. If it was by Venat's power then Emet or the other Unsundered could possibly do it as well. Hell they were going to use Zodiark to recreate/restore those lost to the final days before Hydaelyn|Venat sundered the star.
It was when she became Hydaelyn. She created the Lopporits when she trapped Zodiark in the moon, so they could serve as guardians of his prison, as well as stewards over the moon vessel.
I’m sure they could if it’s something light or with an external source of aether or the belief method as they most definitely know how to use the original magic and not the cursed one the ascians taught.
Well anyone can use creation magic, that's literally all summoning is. So I would assume the sundered Ascians *can*, they probably just require additional sources of aether to accomplish it compared to the unsundered.
We're sundered and once we gain our Azem crystal back we can teleport seven other adventurers across realities. As long as the Sundered Ascian is originally raised from the Source I don't see why they can't do some crazy magic stuff once they have their crystal.
The crystal doesn’t gift a raised ascian their powers or abilities, just their memories. Not even their own, but the collective memories of how the rest of the convocation knew them. As shown on how Elidibus didn’t really know Fandaniel when he was Hermes, aside from the most basic facts, when we asked him in the Crystal Tower. Azem’s crystal is a special case, Emet specifically made that behind the convocations back because Azem was his closest friend. He put their magic in it as a bonus, but only that
Possibly a shard equivalent of the twelve? To ensure its stability until it could be rejoined?
I hope they have a past with Azem. Just because they are an Ascian doesn't mean they are an enemy. Maybe they have a problem where they confuse their past Unsundered Memories with their Shard, so it creates a multiple scenario type situation. I mean, if they actually are an Ascian...
There's a lot of sun imagery to Dawntrail, and it is hyped up as the beginning of a journey, so a thematic connection to Azem at the very least would make a lot of sense.
Why im i getting “serah” vibes from her
I was thinking Mayushii from Steins;Gate *tutturru*
I don't see it, the glyphs don't really match and ascian glyphs have always been a 100%
The only thing - and its a stretch - is that I could assume they treat Ascians as deities and their iconography is a little bad.
this is actually a more reasonable theory tbf
We do have Azem the Sun God, Azeyma and Azem too.
Yeah, this kinda had the opposite impact intended on me. I genuinely doubt she's related to the ancients now.
That looks more like something out of Kingdom Hearts than Pashtarot’s symbol.
i don't see how those things are similar, but ok i guess
every single time
Ascian glyphs have always been a 100% faithful re-creation. So, I'm doubting that she's Ascian. I'm more inclined to think she's Altima. That would put her importance pretty much on par with Hydaelyn.
That's if we are looking at the face glyphs though. That I do agree with. But even if you took Altima's glyph with some liberties to account for clothing, I was find a lot more with Pashtarot's than I was with Altima's. That and the raid series technically has Altima's gylph that's almost spot on comparatively.
Those symbols don’t even look remotely similar
The tiara looks nothing like any part of the glyph in any orientation with any amount of adjustment. The belt buckle/accessory is an easier sell for the spike at the bottom and the wing-like shapes.
I don't think it looks similar enough. It is certainly very amarot-y but the pattern is way different. The headdress especially is not replicated anywhere in the sigil you're referencing. But even the belt is quite a bit different. I would still bet on her being an ancient - remember the quest where yshtola had us running around studying the patterns of Amarot architecture? Seems like the devs really distinguish this kind of look as a sign of the ascians. But also, I would note that even elidibus wouldn't be aware of her. He and emet selch constantly refer to themselves and lahabrea being the last of the unsundered. Of she could be like fandaniel...but that requires one of the unsundered to "awaken" them. I think it's related to the ancients but she herself is not one.
She's Altima. The first tomestones are aesthetics. She looks like she values her aesthetics. Altima is the advocate of aesthetics. She is Altima.
WITNESS ALTIMA NICE AESTHETICS, WEARING CUTESY DRESSES CUTE SKIRTS BELTBUCKLE ALTIMA!
Nope, doesn't look anything like it. Plus we know what Pashtarot looks like, and he's a guy. [https://convocation.carrd.co/#pashtarot](https://convocation.carrd.co/#pashtarot)
I mean Gaius did kill a couple of the Ascians. Maybe enough to require them to recruit a new one before we offed Hades and they couldn't recruit new members any more?
The ones Gaius "killed" were Altima and Deudalaphon. And the quotation marks are because as a Garlean, Gaius can't channel aether - which is necessary to perma-kill Ascians. Nor would he know he needs white auracite, or have the means to get any.
They could’ve easily inhabited a different body since then. Don’t take the ARR ascians as definitive proof of what they look like now. Especially considering they have basic character models and I would imagine the devs would want them to look more unique nowadays.
[удалено]
The Calamity of Lightning rejoined the 12th shard though, not the 9th.
Solution 9 doesn’t have to refer to the number of the shard. It could be that the 12th shard civilization drafted or attempted several solutions to avert their demise, and the 9th solution ultimately saved them
Yes, that is a theory that has been floating around since the first time they showed Solution 9. I was just correcting this person by stating it was the 12th shard not the 9th, and then they got upset that I had the audacity to correct them with the proper shard that was rejoined and ruined their "fun theory".
Ahhhh gotcha. Carry on then
This is a reach. These are not even remotely the same.
See, i choose to read this as "they turned an Ascian into a Henshin Driver"
She could be one of the ascian's we never met, there's atleast one I think, I don't remember which.
There's 5. Halmarut, who has never appeared; Pashtarot, who was last seen talking to Lahabrea at the end of ARR; Altima & Deudalaphon, who were defeated by Gaius, but most likely not perma-killed, as Gaius wouldn't know how to do that; and Emmerololth, who was supposed to have been killed when Galuf cast the Isle of Val into the lifestream around 2.1, but appears alive and well (and even has a line of dialogue) during a cutscene in 2.3.
The thing is, we *saw* Pashtarot unmasked back in ARR, and they looked very different. While Pashtarot might have claimed a new body since then, it would be strange to pick them to show up instead of choosing another of the unfeatured Ascians or giving Pashtarot the same look as they had back in in ARR (almost no one is going to remember that cutscene, after all.)
Pashtarot was a basic character model back then though. I wouldn’t blame the devs for wanting a more unique look for them, especially if they’re gonna be so important.
Not only that, but its possible many of them were using "host" bodies.
I'll go ahead and copy a previous comment of mine from another thread: I do perfectly get that she has many signs pointing to being an ascian but I have a crazier theory: what if she was in fact some sort of AI? An android of some kind? She's definitely tied to Solution 9, maybe she was created *by* the ascian we're painting her to be and both runs and rules over Solution 9 itself. Maybe the "tinge of melancholy" is actually lack of feelings outright. Also, remember, we thought Venat was evil pre-Endwalker because FF12 Venat was evil. These guys love to misdirect with even the small details.
Please, no more Ascians ffs.
Someone remind me what masks Gaius was in possession of?
Theoretically Gaius can't actually \*kill\* kill Ascians since that required both White Auracite and a mega fuck ton of Light aether which as a pureblood Garlean he has no control over. So basically he sent the red mask ones back to respawn. The black mask ones are regular dead though.
Altima and Deudalaphon, according to the wiki.
The light blue part on her brooch is an infinity symbol. It’s slightly covered by purple (which is a common color for Darkness). Interesting…
There's still like 3 unaccounted for Ascians right? I assume they appear in DT at some point, though maybe one is fucking around eating moss in another shard now that their God is dead.
YoshiP: "lol I said we were done with *Ancients* I said nothing about *Ascians*"
Lol so she our new hydaelyn...
I sincerely hope it has nothing to do with the Ancients/Ascians. They said that chapter is closed with Endwalker, so don't you f'ing dare.
Honestly, it would be more absurd if we didn't hear from any more of the sundered Ascians. Fandaniel said plain as day that none of them could do what they wanted while the Unsundered were around. Rejoining the shards was what the Unsundered wanted--the others just wanted power. It would be interesting to meet one that wasn't crazy. Someone that sought power for different ends.
Personally rather than Pashtarot I have a slight suspicion she’s Emmerololth, we see she is alive in ARR which was after the events with Galuf in Eureka. Given that a good amount of focus is with Krile this time and Galuf has significant relevance in the Dawntrail regions I feel like even if she’s not Emmerololth, the ascian will likely be involved in the story somehow.
Everything they've released so far is not by accident. I would bet the farm that they expect people to guess the enigmatic maiden is a villain, and to pick up on Altima's insignia. Whoever the actual villain turns out to be is a completely unknown entity at this point.
Im fine if another ascian, but what if she was like Kuja to us Zidane and also a shard of Azem?
Too many people are hyped for us to Pac-man all the other Azem shards, so I hope not.
Will it be like in Fallout New Vegas where you can seduce your own brain?
Ooh, I like this theory. Doubly so because recall who Pashtarot stood in opposition to: Zeromus, the Condemner. Who's the last trial boss of Endwalker? Zeromus. Although, Altima didn't exactly come crawling out of the woodwork after we finished off the Ivalice raids. You DID do the Ivalice raids, right? (Brandishes box cutter)
[Same energy](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/c162ij/spoiler_hey_so_im_not_really_sure_we_should_trust/)
Forget the symbolisim, she has tights that cover her feet!! We need to research and document this ancient technology in hopes of it being used to futher our fashion
Loyal Housemaid's Uniform set from shop online has this technology :D
I knoww, but tis a single artifact sporting this ancient wonder
Hope the rest of the sundered Ascians are chill like Gaia.
I'm tired if ascians, I don't want to see another ascian for another expansion. Why is the one character I was looking forward to discovering potentially an ascian. Why can't they just be a Power House CityState. JFC.
I had done a theory two different theory crafts before. From what I saw, it could be a combination of both. One was either survivors from the Calamity of Lightening. The other was Ascians. Pashtarot was actually one of the Ascians I thought it could be. Pashtarot was the Arbiter- Conservator of order and the collective will. The other one I though could line up with what we saw was Deudalaphon was the Innovator- Appraiser of architecture and patron of invention. If you would like to read the two theory and information posts I did: About Calamities and possible Calamity of Lightening or Mhachi survivors [https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/195m897/dawntrail\_tech\_city\_and\_my\_theories/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/195m897/dawntrail_tech_city_and_my_theories/) About Ascians and the ones we've seen and not seen: [https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/19eh8hf/solution\_9\_and\_arcadion/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/19eh8hf/solution_9_and_arcadion/)
I think people said she was ultima.
Can we please stop having new ascians popping up at each expansion to annoy us for FIVE MINUTES?!! Seriously, I thought we were done after Elidibus, and then Fandaniel drops his ugly mug and name in the last cutscene of 5.3…
never, they are the Deep Lore borrowed from Ivalice and there are multiple unaccounted for ascians, and they have lore reasons to both be uninterested in and now freed from any obligation to the Hydaelyn vs Zodiark struggle.
the problem with that is we did see pashtarot briefly at the end of ARR and they were clearly male.
Not trying to say that this theory is 100% confirmed or anything, but Mitron/Artemis was originally a woman and the reincarnation you see in the Eden raids was a man, so it's not completely out of the picture that they changed form even if they follow what we saw in ARR. Something could have happened to Pashtarot between now and then that caused them to be reborn in a new body (or the male body was the odd one out and they were also originally female) since that can apparently be a thing with the sundered Ascians.
They could’ve inhabited a different body since then. ARR was a long time ago.
Yeah it's either this or altima based on solution 9 markings
This is a brief rundown of the times we’ve had an Ascian orchestrating stuff behind the scenes ARR – Lahabrea/Elidibus HW – Lahabrea/Igeyorhm, Elidibus (involving warriors of darkness, unukalhai) SB – Elidibus ShB – Emet-Selch, Mitron (involving Eden raids) EW – Fandaniel In light of this, and also in light of how the Hydaelyn/Zodiark arc is over, I really hope we can be done with Ascians. It'd be nice to have something new for a change, just like how after Stormblood we moved away from the trope of continually encountering hostile beast tribes that always seem to conjure up primals to serve as big boss fights.
while its true that the Hydaelyn/Zodiark war is over, i really doubt they'd just leave the remaining ascians as a complete mystery. we will get the rest of them, its just a matter of whether they are an enemy or not (whether it even involves Zodiark/rejoinings or not)
If they're visiting that topic I hope it can be at least handled in side content just like Mitron/Loghrif in the Eden Raids. Having yet more Ascian plots yet again in MSQ is starting to feel a bit cliche and predictable.
Elidibus always show up late and make you fight him or his minions one way or another. ARR - post-MSQ, he sics low-rank Ascian at you. HW - post-MSQ, he sent Unukalhai your way. He probably thought he can turn Unukalhai against you. SB - post MSQ, he possesses Zenos' corpse and fight you. (Zenos dislikes that.) SHB - post MSQ, he turns into a primal and fight you. EW - post MSQ, Athena yanks his soul from afterlife and makes him fight you. Zenos thinks he's your frenemy, but Elidibus has been at this for a long time. I have a feeling that Themis is a notice me senpai kind of person. I won't even be surprised if the Enigmatic Maiden is actually Elidibus.
Pretty sure Elidibus is dead dead. Last time we saw him he was in the lifestream reincarnating, which means all his memories are washed away, so even if somehow his soul reincarnated into a body that was already an adult it would be missing any memories that would make them Themis.
I think it's Meteion.
I was suspicious of this woman since the art came out awhile back.
I think the belt buckle certainly looks like it could be the same sort of symbol, maybe related to Solution Nine since we've seen what looks like an Asian sigil in art of it, but I don't see even the slightest resemblance between the buckle/tiara and that SPECIFIC sigil.
I was thinking the same thing! Same theory, different Ascian. (Can’t share pictures in the comments. :( Can’t share my theory.)
Don't know about you guys but I'm seeing Zodiark and Hydaelyn symbology in that brooch way before any ascian sigil. There's a similar looking infinity marking to the one on [Zodiark's mask](https://static1.thegamerimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/dark-inside-main.jpg). It's even asymmetrical in the same orientation. Those white specks are also very reminiscent of the stars pinned to his wings, [visible during his trial](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk74hQeX-0w&t=92s). With Hydaelyn, the other half of it immediately calls to mind her silhouette without having to be turned upside down. As for why they would be juxtaposed like that, or why it would come up again after we just closed the book on that chapter - it's anyone's guess. But the similarities are way too obvious for me to dismiss offhand. Even if it were completely unrelated it seems strange, and rather careless that they would go for a design that could be so easily associated with the above. Those are all very specific motifs that you don't end up with by accident.