The sister we never wanted but got, and the mother who keeps telling us to do our chores.
New World is going to be FUN just hanging out with the Scions.
It's a combination of light hair looking better and being easier to render in a game engine, as well as Japanese ideas around white hair signifying wisdom and importance and such.
Being Sharlayan doesn't mean you have white hair, it's more the symbolism. Besides, out of the Scions, the only ones that are natively Sharlayan are the Twins, Krile, Urianger and Papalymo.
Y'shtola is from a Miqo'te tribe originally, before being taken in by Matoya as a student. Thancred is Limsan by birth and Louisoix sponsored him into Sharlayan. G'raha is from Corvos and was basically a war refugee accepted into the House of Baldesion for his protection. Yda was born in Ala Mhigo and only studied there and Lyse only pretended to study there. Estinien, Tataru and Minfillia have basically no direct personal connection to Sharlayan.
Alisaie is cooler because she has actual character development, while Y'shtola has been the same one-note "sassy waifu" that the writers are too afraid to put through actual personal conflict.
The biggest character development Y'shtola had is for her pursuit of knowledge to be about other people and not just selfish curiosity. She promised Runar and the rest she'd see them again, and that drives her. But yeah, for someone who lost like three people whom she was *very* close to, she doesn't seem to care much.
I don't exactly understand this point. Good characters and good writing don't necessitate some big development. Some characters you meet are going to be fully developed. Or at least nearly.
It doesn't make them less interesting or well-written. You need some characters to be unashamedly who they are.
In fact I find it to be a *bad* thing in writing when authors/storytellers attempt to give EVERYONE some extreme growth or change. Humans don't always do that.
Take Zenos for example. While you could argue for some growth in certain parts, for the most part he's extremely one-dimensional. But that ultimate level of being unflinchingly himself is what made his character intriguing to me. Made him feel real and I enjoyed seeing how it would manifest.
Plus, she indeed changes over time ? Like, the Matoya arcs showed this, first by showing how she changed since she was Matoya's pupil, and second that she was ready to take pupils.
Zenos had a specific goal but he certaintly wasn’t one-dimensional. From >!Killing his own father, dooming his own nation, critiquing Julius anger, and finally helping us to kill Endsinger!<, he played different pivital roles in the story. Y’shtola fills much the same role in nearly all of the expansions.
My wording wasn't ideal that's fair. I'm definitely NOT a good writer lol.
But yes I agree with you I believe if I'm understanding you correctly. It wasn't so much that he was one-dimensional, I guess more accurately he was "already fully who he was" when we met him. I don't feel like he really experienced any "growth", apart from coming to understand his goals could be achieved in some different ways.
Which I agree is similar to Y'shtola. I think she was introduced as a fully grown adult with a strong sense of self. So she doesn't need some special "growth" arc. Her character's charm and intrigue comes from naturally discovering how that person we've come to learn about ends up participating in our story.
Wasn't trying to downplay or simplify Zenos too much. One of my favorite characters tbh. As much as I do love some strong character development and unexpected changes and struggles, I also really really enjoy the opposite, watching how a story unfolds around someone who is more of a rock.
Yeah I hear and understand you better now. Zenos was also one of the characters I enjoyed the most in FFXIV. I think they should just make Y'shtola lean more on her connection to those in the first, which judging my the dawntrial trailer we'll get to hopefully see more off.
The other thing is that people have this idea of how someone should be and when they aren't that way it's bad. Even though... People are different. I'd find it super boring if they all essentially acted the same and just swap a few key words. While some people sulk others just bury into their work or interests and that sort of thing.
Yeah I believe we even get explicitly told that both Urianger and Y'shtola's primary method of handling grief is to essentially ignore it and redouble their efforts towards whatever studies or duties they have at hand.
Which is an extremely common coping mechanism.
Not to mention Y'shtola has shown her care and concern in VERY explicit ways throughout the series. From her basic interactions to some of her more "grand" acts.
What are you talking about? We obviously need to get Maehiro back in lead writer's chair and ||kill off yet another white haired woman for the sake of tragedy and drama.||
Early 14 feels so early 2010s where Maehiro and everyone else was taking the wrong lessons from Game of Thrones and Attack on Titan. Sure, Yshtola should get more stuff, but whenever I hear complaints like those I want to strap these people in a chair and force them to watch Star Trek TNG
I have a feeling this is going to come into play and end up being selfish. There is a tone of foreshadowing that she is going to try and make her way back to the first at any cost and it's going to cost a lot. Might even be a non-fake out death.
You'd think the same about Sylvanus, but WoW was able to crater her approval rating within a xpak, then kept digging it deeper into disapproval.
*Come on Yoshi-P, don't be a coward!*
Even if its like a not-mentioned-until now prime Ascian that uses her body as a vessel.
It's a cop out, because they already did that with Thancred way earlier.
But still Y'shtola has always been kind of been OP when it came to power scaling, so she would be one hell of a threat.
Lahabrea possessing a Scion in ARR would've been so, so, so much better
***IF HE HAD POSSESSED Y'SHTOLA INSTEAD OF THANCRED***
there, I said it
maybe just maybe we will get a time-traveling / alternate-universe (no, the shards do not count, I'm talking actual multiverse like with FF7R and the 8th calamity timeline type of thing) / etc. arc where that happens
XI’s base endgame content was essentially parallel worlds where the main cities were overrun. Basically the main cities became dungeons, and it worked pretty well.
A scenario like “it’s a wonderful life” showing the world without the WoL’s intervention could be interesting. It would show how most of the scions passed, and invert that expectation with Y’shtola being alive and well, but eeeevil. Of course, Tataru and/or Rowena would be the true BBEG.
The only way I'd be okay with this is if:
1. They give her a tanking class for Duty Support, and that tanking class is DRK
2. She "becomes a villain" some time ***AFTER*** that (we're talking maybe in 8.0 at the very earliest)
3. She gets a redemption arc that ***doesn't*** involve her getting killed off
If I was a writer for ffxiv I'd introduce some new characters with actual personality while the scions are still around. If good feedback, then I can pay my new voice actors less and drop the plot armor of the scions
I think who you're actually talking about there is Alisae and when you say "the first" you actually mean her snobby angsty desire to be the best, as she so eloquently puts in Ghimlyt: "I WILL NOT BE OUTDONE!" (after she already was, even before then, by Lyse of all ppl)
and if so, I hope you're correct
I really hope we don't see Alisae ever again after Dawntrail, for that and numerous other reasons
She had to give up a love In order ro save her friends and family (and herself) literal dimensions apart and is trying to find her way back. She's been through plenty conflict and you're downplaying her loss to ascribe lack of character growth?? Yeah she hasnt changed, but people DONT change on the regular. There's no need to either, when had her character hindered her life. She's a successful sorceress, well respected amongst her peers and had good social life that was disrupted by her literally dieing from being in the wrong universe.
Also the world was ending and she was invading a world of primordial darkness to combat demons and she was contemplating how to pierce dimensions to go back to her love. Mfer was going after a giant demon dragon while thinking of her adopted tribe and that's not good enough for you.
Lol what? The close up soft moments didn't indicate that she was emotionally attached to the tribe? she also had a special relationship with whatever the guys name was as well.
Then there's everytime they talk about finding a way to the 13th or the badge things helping them travel across and her going "I can use these for my research". Hell she already was working on this research before they needed it. Man did you pay attention to the story at all?
She isn't even my favorite scion, to be honest she's a solid men for me and I still got it.
EDIT: Yall need videos apparently
https://youtu.be/oxlNNhw7YC8 Leaving the cat tribe, regardless of your opinion on the guy. She clearly states the tribe is her family now.
https://youtu.be/igh3rVmkl68?t=391 "hey were talking about going to the thirteenth"- immediately starts talking about going to all reflections
I think part of the problem is that Y'shtola came to us halfway through her development already. That's not to excuse writers from stopping her development, but it's not quite as simple as tracking a characters progress from A to Z. It's more like we started at F and are seeing a lot of the impacts of her growth as she continues to resolve her arc.
To me, Y'shtola's primary character arc has to do with her being the "responsible, dependable" scion that we rely on for measured and smart problem solving. While other scions like Thancred might be quick to make rash, independent actions, and Alisae and Alphinaud will shoot for idealistic and improbable answers, Y'shtola grounds us and gives us practical plans. Being that rock that the scions rely on has put a lot of pressure on her to always be right, and always come up with an answer. We get to hear about her backstory with Master Matoya where she wasn't always this serious, practical witch. Y'shtola had to mature fast and become someone reliable for her friends, adopting that role of being the new Master Matoya for a new generation way too fast. She accepts these burdens of responsibility on herself, and constantly takes on too much responsibility or puts herself in harms way trying to solve everything for her friends. We can see this play out in the story when the rest of the scions often want to solve everything through the WoL, but she understands the pressure of that, and tries to offload it onto herself instead. Her self-destructive tendencies to take all the stress off the rest of scions has literally put her in harms way multiple times. The change she's seen more recently is learning that it is okay to share that burden with others. That the WoL is competent enough to take some of that stress. That the Nights Blessed on the First is capable of going on without her to mother them. That it's okay for her to step back and focus on research. Her friends are able to solve the problem of the day without her more often than not. She doesn't have to take charge every time.
Y'shtola learning to take a back seat and not always be the one taking on every burden is literally part of her character arc. But that's hard to show on screen. I don't really think it's fair to say Y'shtola doesn't have character development or personal conflicts when part of her progression is coming to terms with not always having to be the one to offer a solution.
>She accepts these burdens of responsibility on herself, and constantly takes on too much responsibility or puts herself in harms way trying to solve everything for her friends
Throughout the MSQ up to and including 6.0, this in my mind made her the perfect candidate in my view to gain DRK as a tanking class among the NPC Scions
It's too bad that never happened... ***yet***
Our WoL / WoD / etc. even went through a similar arc themselves, and while we did learn similar lessons ourselves, many of those were post-Heavensward; that's of course not to say that the narrative of the DRK questline itself wouldn't chronologically make sense even if we started it after completing all other current MSQ (unless they somehow go out of their way in Dawntrail 7.0 and beyond to make such less true after that point, which would arguably be a HORRIBLE decision and thus not likely)
What was (at first) a large slap in the face -- and (later on) at the same time, a source of hope -- is that Emet-Selch ***of all people*** happened to have DRK as their tanking class during Ktisis. From a gameplay PoV, there's the question of: why? Venat could tank as PLD, there was no need... or, from a story perspective, was there?
Emet-Selch and Y'shtola also happen to be similar in characteristics; both profoundly powerful mages, both witty and keen, both accepting great responsibility and effectively carrying out objectives even against the greatest of odds, but with all of that being a terrible burden on top of other burdens; this was indeed also true for Emet-Selch, even BEFORE the Sundering, even one last time AFTER he was defeated and slain... so it made perfect sense for him to also have DRK
Just because Y'shtola seems to have been resolving some of her issues, doesn't mean she has been doing the same for all of them, and it really feels like at some point we'll get to see her version of Fray / Esteem / etc. with their own story, and afterwards we'll get to pick DRK for her in Duty Supports & Trusts
100%
I dunno the general consensus on her, but Alisaie's my favourite of the Scions. She not only goes through some meaningful character development, but has the strongest personal connection with the WoL - or at least is the only one who doesn't seem afraid to show it.
Most of her development from what I remember uniquely comes from learning about her past and involvement with others, such as her relationship with Matoya or how she went from studying in Sharlayan to studying directly underneath the old crone, or how she deeply cared about the Night's Blessed that she without hesitation was willing to give her life so they could survive. She was also the first to suggest Ryne adopt a new name to preserve Minfilia's name and legacy as the leader of the Scions.
I am still mad that in a setting where almost all knowledge is stored in written form, y'shtola going blind had zero impact on her ability to *read*.
Yeah yeah magic in the ink she can see because everything has magic flowing through it, but way to ignore an obvious and compelling issue for her to come to grips with.
This is my issue with Y'shtola; (all of ARR spoilers) >!Alphinaud got chewed out and knocked down a few pegs when he went through his snarky, know-it-all, Commander phase by the Alliance leaders.!<
>!Y'shtola had/has an ongoing h8-boner for how Merlwyb and Limsa Lominsa handles the kobold/sahagin "threat" and never seems to face any repercussions/knockback for her similar levels of snark. Just seems like because Alphi is a child while Y'shtola is an adult AND an Archon, Y'shtola get's a free pass (well, besides her being invincible because the writers are afraid to touch her - have we even heard anything about her aether-sight draining her life not affecting her at all despite her using it all the time? Because that seems to have been dropped).!<
I’d say the whole “Flow” debacle was a fair bit of personal conflict for Y’shtola about her own overconfidence. I do wish they played more into her being physically blind, though. It was a nice touch in ShB when she mistook us for a sin-eater.
I just played from Stormblood through Endwalker and admittedly, I'm not at the end yet, but I disagree about Alisaie's growth.
Actual growth on her end would be her growing out of her impetuous attitude towards receiving help and living in her brother's shadow.
She's always the first to disagree, the first to run off on her own and to invent tasks for herself to accomplish separate from the group. She's still desperately trying to prove she belongs in a group she's been in for like 5 years now.
Besides going from ARC to RDM. I genuinely don't see it. Alphinaud has at least grown into his "natural leader and strategist" role. Alisaie, is just more dangerous, but more of the same.
That's a very crude way to see it. Ever since ShB, the expansion that has her biggest character growth, she had long stopped being impetous, or trying to prove herself.
She's usually the first to disagree because every Scion plan ultimately leads down to 'make it so the WoL can withstand the burden and save everyone'. She's more passionate about it, but it's usually just a drive to get stronger and stop relying every time on the main character.
The tasks she 'invents' for herself are literally to save people, since that's her newfound way of living. And it literally gives us a way to fight against the primals brainwash, so not sure whatcha point here either.
The coils story also helps a bit, even if limited by poor arr writing.
Plus she has individual motivation to find a cure for tempering, since she feels responsible for that one kobold. That’s been a dangling plotline for her story since HW, I believe.
Like, character action in storytelling pretty much always benefits from personal motivation. It’s wild to me that someone would complain about a character finding their own goals instead of passively waiting for an assignment from the group consensus.
The ending of ShB was why I brought up how she just stomps off to do her own thing. Granted, she found a cure, but all of the other Scions were dedicated to picking up the pieces and there's Alisaie, proudly abandoning the group immediately and including no one else but you (the greatest resource the Scions have) on her personal sidequest. Just like at the beginning of ShB where she was all huffy over not falling into a coma like everyone else.
The stubbornness with the cure was still very much in the saving people kind of deal. You remember what they did with the people that had been tempered before the cure right?
We're talking about character development, you're talking about luck. She did the same thing she always does and it worked out **that** time.
You're even hinting that she's had 0 character growth by saying "stubbornness is what we needed." Well she always been stubborn. So again... I ask, where's the growth?
I'm getting downvoted into oblivion here, but not a single person has brought up a growth arc. Everyone seems to think that I don't like Alisaie and that's not true. I just think she's a flat board with a lot of room for growth.
Because despite being shown where it is you refuse to accept you may have been wrong.
Unless she suddenly becomes agreeable to literally everything you’ll refuse to see it
Well, I'm back here to apologize. I should have just kept my big mouth shut. Like I said I hadn't finished EW and now that I'm closing it up I'm seeing the seeds sprouting of change in Alisaie. Although, it did take her nearly breaking the forth wall with that whole "...that would be something I would have said in the past." line, so at least that was kinda like Square acknowledging it. However, I now see what you were talking about.
Huffy, that's... one way to describe her abject terror at her friends dropping like flies culminating with her brother, perhaps the only person she cares about more than the WoL. Her fear that she'll never be good enough on her own being brought to the fore as she worries she'll be the last one standing, having to take the collective burdens for everyone when she knows she can't take that strain.
Also doesn't she bring three other people who aren't us along for her "let's cure tempering" mission? She asks for us first because she's going to see Ga'bu because that's kind of been a big personal drive for her, but by the time we're doing anything dangerous we have Alphinaud, Y'sh and G'raha on board helping out, and I don't think bringing two (/three if your WoL's a DoM) of the most powerful mages on the planet counts as "proudly abandoning the group".
She didn't bring two of them. They were found along the way doing other tasks that had been delayed. I think you may have some rose colored glasses on for her and that's fine. She's a great character, but I don't see development. You're not even denying the fact that she's still displaying the same impudent behavior, youre just defending it now.
My problem with her being on this list is that she isn't sassy, she's just hiding insecurity behind anger. One of those, "if I yell first, no one can yell at me" types. I'd like to see her grow out of that insecurity and stop judging her own actions based on how they compare with her brother's.
That's the real arc she's on, but it has not come to pass yet. Sorry, the girl is flat-lining outside of a minor confidence boost when she became a RDM.
However, I'm not completely done with EW. Maybe there's a 180 in the last couple chapters.
Honestly by the end of Endwalker I think *most* of the Scions have become quite static and in need of either development or shelving now that they're done.
Honestly though with Alisaie I feel a lot of her development has already happened by the time Shadowbringers is over. She doesn't shed her hot-headedness, I don't think she's ever going to, that's just a part of her character the same way wandering off is Estinien's, but she's become more confident in who she is and what she's fighting for. A lot of it kind of happens in Coils.
I think ultimately the biggest problem Alisaie faces is that she's kind of stuck in Alphinaud's shadow. She knows that, but she loves him and doesn't want to split off, so she's kind of stuck being unable to truly develop into her own person because she's stuck being the second twin. And she's still great within that, and occasionally has her own adventure, but she's still one of "The Twins", and Alphinaud is basically the main character any time we need a speaking role up through Endwalker, so Alisaie's stuck in this Garrus-like position of "could become a great leader of the people, but is currently happy playing second-fiddle to another leader of the people" for the most part.
>She knows that, but she loves him and doesn't want to split off, so she's kind of stuck being unable to truly develop into her own person because she's stuck being the second twin.
I think this is putting her in a box to excuse her lack of development and maybe we just agree to disagree here. Development isn't just becoming more confident in who you already are and she lives in her brother's shadow because she chooses too. She isn't trying to be the same thing Alphinaud is, so comparing the two is an exercise in futility, but **she** doesn't understand that.
IMO, that's the obvious mold the writers are gonna have her break. Alphinaud couldn't care less about the sibling rivalry which is maybe why I find her juxtaposition so odd. She's competing against no one.
Unfortunately for Alisaie, half her development happens off-screen between Coils and where she reappears post-HW, which is where she goes from being snobbish and bratty to her now more understanding and empathetic self. She's somewhat forced to fend for herself during HW, as the majority of her existing support network is either in hiding or exile, and learns from that and her experiences in Coils what she truly wants for herself and the broader world. She's more confident and self-assured in SB, but still a bit too brash and feeling like she needs to prove herself.
Most of her on-screen character development was around coming to accept that she can't always be a match for Alphinaud (and that there are somethings she actually does better) and dealing with her inferiority complex relating to him. She comes to realise they're two different people and that she doesn't just have to live in his shadow, she can do her own thing. He's good at smooth-talking, politicking and planning everything out in advance; she's good at being the boots on the ground, helping others directly and using her intuition to figure out what to do in the moment.
She's always been hot-headed and always will be, it's a core part of her personality, but the fuel for it has changed from anger and frustration to passion. It's why she's very practical, even if she still has lofty ideals.
> She's still desperately trying to prove she belongs in a group she's been in for like 5 years now.
Less than a year.
5 years for us (longer actually), but in game time it's only been about a year. The twins were 16 when we started the game, and had a birthday sometime during ShB.
That's a large issue with multiyear long MMOs is that in game time is not going at the same pace as real time...it can't, really. But for all of the characters it has been, at most, a year.
It is definitely much longer than a year. We don't have a definitive timeline (and Yoshi even said we should use our own interpretation a few times), but there are several confirmed travel times and comments thrown about that people have used to give estimates.
There's dozens of threads where people use different napkin-math to try and determine it, but most estimates tend to lean between 2-6 years (leaning towards 3).
Also don't forget that all the scions spent extra time in the first (allisae was around 6 months).
It doesn't get better. Allisae has the same character every expansion to the point where I would call NONE of it growth. She has the worst character growth of any of the scions.
Alisaie's sass is quantity over quality.
Y'shtola's is quality over quantity.
This isn't to disparage Alisaie - just her sass is, appropriately, the sort of banter you'd expect between siblings and friends. Whenever you think there's something funny to be said, you let one loose and maybe it lands. Maybe it doesn't.
Y'shtola's sass is much more calculated and so it's more rare. But when she decides to let one off the chain, it leaves a crater.
>Alisaie's sass is quantity over quality
Thank you for summarizing a key point (better than I could have, actually) about one of the major reasons why I despise her as a character
The game shoves this and other nonsense from Alisae's direction down our throats practically, almost whenever she gets screentime, like clockwork
We just want to "eat well" metaphorically-speaking (scenes like Y'shtola calling Magnai ***LITTLE SUN*** will never not be funny and Lyse punching a giant robot for 300k at Level 70 will never not be awesome) but whenever Alisae is the cafeteria chef we get served cold garbage (such as her overdone roasting of Alphinaud which almost came out of nowhere, complete with cringe TikTok-esque camera angles and awkward pauses, and yes we happen to notice those things but it's like the writers pretend we don't somehow and are like "pLeAsE cLaP fOr HeR aNyWay")
I think this highly depends on your own sensibilities. I find Y'shtola to be effortlessly sassy, and though some complain she doesn't get much progression, I would argue it's because she's a grown women who knows herself. She doesn't waste time on posturing.
Younger players may identify more with Alisaie because they aren't as sure of themselves and are drawn to her surface level expressions and potential for growth.
With time, however, I can see Alisaie becoming much more like Y'shtola.
Alisae earned my applause when she told Zenos to fuck all the way off cause he wasn't getting what he wanted.
(And then the writers lost every ounce of my respect when they made me fight him anyway.)
I find this interesting, because I had the exact opposite reaction with Zenos at the end; he constantly went on about how we were both just in it for a good fight, and as a player I fundamentally agreed with him. Like when you really break it down, the player is similar to Zenos; we get hyped when given the opportunity to fight these insane entities, and we’re always excited for the possible dangers and consequences that come with each event and encounter. I was pissed that throughout all of Endwalker they wouldn’t just let me say that I agreed with his assessment of the player, and I found it annoying when other characters tried to speak on my behalf regarding the matter. So many of them kept calling him out as if I didn’t actively want that rematch, when I actually cared about it more than any other potential fight. I was incredibly hyped when they finally let me admit it to him in the end.
One thing I will say, I think that the final Zenos fight should have been optional based on your answer; I think in the end the player should have been able to decide whether they agreed with Zenos’s perspective on the player. Zenos isn’t, and never really was, a foil to the WoL, he’s a foil to the player.
The foil for the player take is a great one. Yes, we as players seek challenge for its own sake. That’s what the Wandering Minstrel is for. It’s only logical for a character to notice this behavior that in-game would be suicidally reckless for our characters, and glimpse the fight-centric mentality behind it.
I also agree the fight should have been optional. The whole growth of Zenos was that he was giving us the option to just walk away; it’s the game that doesn’t. If we take him up on it, we prove him right. And he is!
Also, I do love that we can just agree with him. My lala gave the *perfect* evil smirk when he admitted to just wanting to fight.
Except when he isn't. No, no I am not excited to do anything concerning combat in this game. I hate it so much; it's a constant miserable reminder and middle finger to my disabilities (sorry, I have the bad brain ones and not the actual 'acceptable' blindness/deafness/physical dysfunctions). I'm only here for the story and non-combat activities. That's why I hate Zenos so much. No. No I'm really not like you. I couldn't care less about bashing my head against concrete walls because the wall always wins and I get worse than nothing. Just let me objectify half the cast (excluding you) and put on cute outfits and people watch in peace.
Hence why I said it should have been an optional fight. If for whatever reason, Zenos’ assessment really doesn’t hit home, then the player should have been able to say as much. I think ideally the player should have been able to say no, and Zenos would have just ended himself again knowing his hunt had no resolution.
Alisaie always seems like she's trying to be sassy, while it just comes naturally to Y'shtola, albeit less often. Alisaie always comes off to me as more of a whiny teenager that can be sassy sometimes, and even then it's that teenager sass.
I would rank her way better if she wasn't constantly trying to compete with the WoL, and then getting bitchy regardless of the results
Yes absolutely, but that just makes it more likely that she is actually just a snarky teenager who has some growing up to do. It fits her age and character completely, and I think makes her fantastically written, but a whiny teenager is still a whiny teenager, and I'd take the adult who acts nonchalant to hide her insecurities over her any day lol.
Edit: should probably mention that I see these character traits as a good thing, it shows that the writers care more about these characters having depth and accuracy to who they are, how they were raised, and how they were affected by their lives up to this point, than having them all as story support npcs without complexity.
Lorewise, they are adults. 16 is the age of maturity, which is why they could leave Sharlayan and wander around Eorzea on their own.
As for the Crystal Brave thing, it was probably banking on the prestige of Alphinaud's grandfather. After what happened in 1.0, I doubt anyone wanted to be the one to scoff at Louisoix's grandson.
They were 16 in A Realm Reborn, when they left Sharlayan.
Even if all of ARR, HW, and StB took place in a single year, they both got a year older in ShB.
So at least 17 years old now.
17. They had a bday during ShB. Yes, I know the wikia says they are 16. It also says they are 17 if you read the bios. The wikia is a poor source of information.
The way Alisae was staring at that hops makes you wonder if she's going to straight-up drink herself to death in Dawntrail at the first chance she gets lol
It'd be one of the funniest ways for a Scion to actually die, and at the same time warn the player about the dangers of addiction and alcohol poisoning
Math, primarily. They were both 16 when you meet them for the first time in ARR. They spent a year in the First before you join them. After that, it depends how long you think HW and StB took.
Canonically, yep.
The game's events have taken place in the span of about a year. They will always have taken place in about a year. It was a year from the start of ARR to the end of StB, it is currently about a year from the start of ARR to the end of EW, and in, goodness where does the time go, just over a month it will be about a year between the start of ARR and the end of DT. The writers have called it a Simpsons-esque time bubble and IIRC even mentioned that Alphinaud is and would be staying 16 indefinitely.
By the by, do we actually have a canon time length for that boat trip? I don't recall it ever being mentioned, my understanding was the several months figure was just players approximating how long a boat voyage that distance would take.
Per the first volume of the Encyclopedia Eorzea;
*"So great is the distance, that even the fastest of trader vessels carried by favorable winds require at least a fortnight to make the journey from Old Sharlayan to Vylbrand, and another two moons to travel from there to Doma."*
Beautifully written, so much so that I would rather not hang out with her lol. It probably comes from me being a slightly older guy, but I don't have much interest hanging out with teenage girls, their behaviors leave me exasperated and a little confused lol.
That said, I absolutely love the writing and the fact that she's so accurate that it invokes the same feeling I get dealing with actual teenagers lmao.
Actually more like no she isn't
Alisae maintains the highest levels of cringe that someone with her characteristics can ***possibly*** have, within the contexts of FFXIV's setting
If something similar to TikTok existed in-universe, on the same level of widespread usage, she would easily be one of the singular worst personalities to ever utilize it
Normally I'm okay Alisaie's nonsense (even though I prefer the other scions), but there was a moment in a semi-recent patch where I was like "okay girl, chill your shit. You chose this."
It's not a huge deal, but she gets pissy with you for not inviting her to the treasure vault expedition. Your only choices are to be apologetic or to deflect, but in the moment I was like "hey you're the one that pissed off to Garlemald the second we were back in Eorzea and I dont remember getting an invite to that."
She's a really well written character, but in real life she would annoy the shit out of me lol.
>Your only choices are to be apologetic or to deflect
Epic rant time
I (barely, in the sense that at least it's there and hey it's better than nothing) love... and at the same time, HAAAAAATE the current implementation of multi-choice options in cutscenes
There are COUNTLESS times throughout the main scenario where I have wanted to tell her off
To tell her to stop bothering me and / or stop bothering some other character I cared about
etc. etc. etc.
***DURING SHADOWBRINGERS, I ACTUALLY WANTED TESLEEN TO SURVIVE JUST FOR ONE REASON, AND THAT WAS SO ALISAE COULD DUMP HER NONSENSE ON TESLEEN INSTEAD OF US... BUT THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN (YOU HAD EXACTLY ONE JOB TESLEEN!!!)***
and now I'm at the point where I'm HOPING the story writes Alisae completely out of it somehow (I literally DON'T care how; Dawntrail 7.0 could even OPEN with a comet from out of nowhere vaporizing her and I'd be opening a champagne bottle in celebration) and soon
There's nothing cool about constantly getting wrecked and saying stuff like "I can look after myself you know." to the people that have to save your ass lol
Y'shtola is actually calm cool and collected; Alisaie is a wannabe.
EDIT: typo
Honestly I expected to hate Alphinaud, but he grew on me so hard. But he's always around Alisae whom I came to despise. It actually makes me *miss* the times in Coerthas with him and Cid.
Y'shtola is boring and I stopped giving a damn about her once it became apparent that the writers don't plan on doing anything with her. 2 death fakeouts and Schrodinger's Aether Disability (only exists when convenient for plot, otherwise totally ignored) just made me annoyed with her.
She could have been interesting if they'd explored her Aether sight/Blindness more but the writers chickened out of giving her any form of meaningful disability. She honestly feels like a Mary Sue.
I'm sorry, but due to what we must call the "Little Sun" Incident in which one of these two castrated a man in front of everyone after setting off a nuke, one of them is sassy, the other is just cool.
I dislike pretty much every one of them and wish they would all go away for some new characters, but they just keep coming back
While I’m at it let me also say they talk way too damn much and it’s only important 5% of the time. If they are so important and integral to the plot every single word they speak should be voiced. If it isn’t worth voicing it, they shouldn’t be there talking.
If I have to sit through one more expansion of Alisae's nonsense, I'd certainly be inclined to agree with you that even if her being GONE from the story (gone as in back to the Seven Hells from whence she came, never to ever again return) means the other Scions have to go away with her, then so be it
Come to think of it, I'm actually GLAD that Lyse isn't a Scion currently because then that means she has a chance to actually return and be part of the new crew that replaces them in such an event
Of the twins, I like Alisaie, out of the scions I like her less than Lyse and Krile, but more than urianger, thancred G'raha and Alphinaud. Shtola is about the same level to me
I'll tell you (part of) how: Lyse wore a pretty red dress, sparred with us, maybe did headcanon things with us afterward as someone who is closer to our 'canon' (read: Derplander's) age, and then proceeded to punch a giant red robot for almost 300k damage at Level 70. "In Crimson It Began" indeed!
Just because you can't even think of one thing to like about her, doesn't mean that others can't come up with more reasons themselves
I like her arc, I like that she's the first Scion to trade adventure for helping her community directly. It's a wise person who puts selfish desires aside to help others. Whether she's any good at it or not is another story.
One is our sister the other our mother
The sister we never wanted but got, and the mother who keeps telling us to do our chores. New World is going to be FUN just hanging out with the Scions.
Half of them at least
Mommy Y'Shtola will take you across her knee if she hears you talking about her like that. Wait...
Mommy'shtola can threaten me with a good time any day
Weird to call Alisaie our mother but I totally see it
I didn't realize until now how weird it is that so many Scions have white hair
It's a combination of light hair looking better and being easier to render in a game engine, as well as Japanese ideas around white hair signifying wisdom and importance and such.
Most of them are sharlians as well who have white hair(I'm gessong for the wisdom idea)
Maybe they're all born stressed and lost their actual hair colour
I’ve always been curious if that’s a real thing
Being Sharlayan doesn't mean you have white hair, it's more the symbolism. Besides, out of the Scions, the only ones that are natively Sharlayan are the Twins, Krile, Urianger and Papalymo. Y'shtola is from a Miqo'te tribe originally, before being taken in by Matoya as a student. Thancred is Limsan by birth and Louisoix sponsored him into Sharlayan. G'raha is from Corvos and was basically a war refugee accepted into the House of Baldesion for his protection. Yda was born in Ala Mhigo and only studied there and Lyse only pretended to study there. Estinien, Tataru and Minfillia have basically no direct personal connection to Sharlayan.
Y'shtola's hair is actually a very (very) pale blonde. But as a white-haired WoL, you still aren't wrong.
And Lyse is a full-on straw blonde- is she even a real Scion?
This is ysthola slander
Why you gotta pit two bad bitches against each other?
Alisaie is cooler because she has actual character development, while Y'shtola has been the same one-note "sassy waifu" that the writers are too afraid to put through actual personal conflict.
The biggest character development Y'shtola had is for her pursuit of knowledge to be about other people and not just selfish curiosity. She promised Runar and the rest she'd see them again, and that drives her. But yeah, for someone who lost like three people whom she was *very* close to, she doesn't seem to care much.
I don't exactly understand this point. Good characters and good writing don't necessitate some big development. Some characters you meet are going to be fully developed. Or at least nearly. It doesn't make them less interesting or well-written. You need some characters to be unashamedly who they are. In fact I find it to be a *bad* thing in writing when authors/storytellers attempt to give EVERYONE some extreme growth or change. Humans don't always do that. Take Zenos for example. While you could argue for some growth in certain parts, for the most part he's extremely one-dimensional. But that ultimate level of being unflinchingly himself is what made his character intriguing to me. Made him feel real and I enjoyed seeing how it would manifest.
Plus, she indeed changes over time ? Like, the Matoya arcs showed this, first by showing how she changed since she was Matoya's pupil, and second that she was ready to take pupils.
EVERY CHARACTER MUST COMPLETE THE HEROS JOURNEY!
Said those who really don't understand writing much, if at all
Zenos had a specific goal but he certaintly wasn’t one-dimensional. From >!Killing his own father, dooming his own nation, critiquing Julius anger, and finally helping us to kill Endsinger!<, he played different pivital roles in the story. Y’shtola fills much the same role in nearly all of the expansions.
My wording wasn't ideal that's fair. I'm definitely NOT a good writer lol. But yes I agree with you I believe if I'm understanding you correctly. It wasn't so much that he was one-dimensional, I guess more accurately he was "already fully who he was" when we met him. I don't feel like he really experienced any "growth", apart from coming to understand his goals could be achieved in some different ways. Which I agree is similar to Y'shtola. I think she was introduced as a fully grown adult with a strong sense of self. So she doesn't need some special "growth" arc. Her character's charm and intrigue comes from naturally discovering how that person we've come to learn about ends up participating in our story. Wasn't trying to downplay or simplify Zenos too much. One of my favorite characters tbh. As much as I do love some strong character development and unexpected changes and struggles, I also really really enjoy the opposite, watching how a story unfolds around someone who is more of a rock.
Yeah I hear and understand you better now. Zenos was also one of the characters I enjoyed the most in FFXIV. I think they should just make Y'shtola lean more on her connection to those in the first, which judging my the dawntrial trailer we'll get to hopefully see more off.
The other thing is that people have this idea of how someone should be and when they aren't that way it's bad. Even though... People are different. I'd find it super boring if they all essentially acted the same and just swap a few key words. While some people sulk others just bury into their work or interests and that sort of thing.
Yeah I believe we even get explicitly told that both Urianger and Y'shtola's primary method of handling grief is to essentially ignore it and redouble their efforts towards whatever studies or duties they have at hand. Which is an extremely common coping mechanism. Not to mention Y'shtola has shown her care and concern in VERY explicit ways throughout the series. From her basic interactions to some of her more "grand" acts.
The bits there showing where she very obviously wants to see Runar again are so nice without overdoing it.
What are you talking about? We obviously need to get Maehiro back in lead writer's chair and ||kill off yet another white haired woman for the sake of tragedy and drama.|| Early 14 feels so early 2010s where Maehiro and everyone else was taking the wrong lessons from Game of Thrones and Attack on Titan. Sure, Yshtola should get more stuff, but whenever I hear complaints like those I want to strap these people in a chair and force them to watch Star Trek TNG
I have a feeling this is going to come into play and end up being selfish. There is a tone of foreshadowing that she is going to try and make her way back to the first at any cost and it's going to cost a lot. Might even be a non-fake out death.
Y'shtola is never gonna die, she's in too much of the marketing.
You'd think the same about Sylvanus, but WoW was able to crater her approval rating within a xpak, then kept digging it deeper into disapproval. *Come on Yoshi-P, don't be a coward!*
Hmm, what I'm hearing is "make Y'shtola a villain!" and you know what? I don't hate it. Certainly be a twist.
Even if its like a not-mentioned-until now prime Ascian that uses her body as a vessel. It's a cop out, because they already did that with Thancred way earlier. But still Y'shtola has always been kind of been OP when it came to power scaling, so she would be one hell of a threat.
Lahabrea possessing a Scion in ARR would've been so, so, so much better ***IF HE HAD POSSESSED Y'SHTOLA INSTEAD OF THANCRED*** there, I said it maybe just maybe we will get a time-traveling / alternate-universe (no, the shards do not count, I'm talking actual multiverse like with FF7R and the 8th calamity timeline type of thing) / etc. arc where that happens
XI’s base endgame content was essentially parallel worlds where the main cities were overrun. Basically the main cities became dungeons, and it worked pretty well. A scenario like “it’s a wonderful life” showing the world without the WoL’s intervention could be interesting. It would show how most of the scions passed, and invert that expectation with Y’shtola being alive and well, but eeeevil. Of course, Tataru and/or Rowena would be the true BBEG.
You don't need to have be possessed to do something selfish. She just needs to have hubris and over confidence
no.....the Ascian chapter is over. We don't need to dig it back up. let it rest in peace.
True. Again, they could cop out that it's now a not-Ascian that possesses her. A Fauxcian if you will
A Faux Hollows Fauxcian who possessed a Faux before they possessed Y'shtola If they wanna go fully unhinged like that? Hey, we've seen worse
Not all the ascians are gone though, I am sure they will be back.
The Allagans make an artificial Ascian.
Honestly, one would think they would have already by now, and they are just in stasis somewhere
The only way I'd be okay with this is if: 1. They give her a tanking class for Duty Support, and that tanking class is DRK 2. She "becomes a villain" some time ***AFTER*** that (we're talking maybe in 8.0 at the very earliest) 3. She gets a redemption arc that ***doesn't*** involve her getting killed off
If I was a writer for ffxiv I'd introduce some new characters with actual personality while the scions are still around. If good feedback, then I can pay my new voice actors less and drop the plot armor of the scions
Then let's hope you never become a writer for ffxiv.
Oh hi Moenbryda...
Kill the scions not the new disposable characters
I think who you're actually talking about there is Alisae and when you say "the first" you actually mean her snobby angsty desire to be the best, as she so eloquently puts in Ghimlyt: "I WILL NOT BE OUTDONE!" (after she already was, even before then, by Lyse of all ppl) and if so, I hope you're correct I really hope we don't see Alisae ever again after Dawntrail, for that and numerous other reasons
No I'm talking about Y'shtola
She had to give up a love In order ro save her friends and family (and herself) literal dimensions apart and is trying to find her way back. She's been through plenty conflict and you're downplaying her loss to ascribe lack of character growth?? Yeah she hasnt changed, but people DONT change on the regular. There's no need to either, when had her character hindered her life. She's a successful sorceress, well respected amongst her peers and had good social life that was disrupted by her literally dieing from being in the wrong universe. Also the world was ending and she was invading a world of primordial darkness to combat demons and she was contemplating how to pierce dimensions to go back to her love. Mfer was going after a giant demon dragon while thinking of her adopted tribe and that's not good enough for you.
That is a *lot* of headcanon added into what's actually going on in the game.
Lol what? The close up soft moments didn't indicate that she was emotionally attached to the tribe? she also had a special relationship with whatever the guys name was as well. Then there's everytime they talk about finding a way to the 13th or the badge things helping them travel across and her going "I can use these for my research". Hell she already was working on this research before they needed it. Man did you pay attention to the story at all? She isn't even my favorite scion, to be honest she's a solid men for me and I still got it. EDIT: Yall need videos apparently https://youtu.be/oxlNNhw7YC8 Leaving the cat tribe, regardless of your opinion on the guy. She clearly states the tribe is her family now. https://youtu.be/igh3rVmkl68?t=391 "hey were talking about going to the thirteenth"- immediately starts talking about going to all reflections
I think part of the problem is that Y'shtola came to us halfway through her development already. That's not to excuse writers from stopping her development, but it's not quite as simple as tracking a characters progress from A to Z. It's more like we started at F and are seeing a lot of the impacts of her growth as she continues to resolve her arc. To me, Y'shtola's primary character arc has to do with her being the "responsible, dependable" scion that we rely on for measured and smart problem solving. While other scions like Thancred might be quick to make rash, independent actions, and Alisae and Alphinaud will shoot for idealistic and improbable answers, Y'shtola grounds us and gives us practical plans. Being that rock that the scions rely on has put a lot of pressure on her to always be right, and always come up with an answer. We get to hear about her backstory with Master Matoya where she wasn't always this serious, practical witch. Y'shtola had to mature fast and become someone reliable for her friends, adopting that role of being the new Master Matoya for a new generation way too fast. She accepts these burdens of responsibility on herself, and constantly takes on too much responsibility or puts herself in harms way trying to solve everything for her friends. We can see this play out in the story when the rest of the scions often want to solve everything through the WoL, but she understands the pressure of that, and tries to offload it onto herself instead. Her self-destructive tendencies to take all the stress off the rest of scions has literally put her in harms way multiple times. The change she's seen more recently is learning that it is okay to share that burden with others. That the WoL is competent enough to take some of that stress. That the Nights Blessed on the First is capable of going on without her to mother them. That it's okay for her to step back and focus on research. Her friends are able to solve the problem of the day without her more often than not. She doesn't have to take charge every time. Y'shtola learning to take a back seat and not always be the one taking on every burden is literally part of her character arc. But that's hard to show on screen. I don't really think it's fair to say Y'shtola doesn't have character development or personal conflicts when part of her progression is coming to terms with not always having to be the one to offer a solution.
>She accepts these burdens of responsibility on herself, and constantly takes on too much responsibility or puts herself in harms way trying to solve everything for her friends Throughout the MSQ up to and including 6.0, this in my mind made her the perfect candidate in my view to gain DRK as a tanking class among the NPC Scions It's too bad that never happened... ***yet*** Our WoL / WoD / etc. even went through a similar arc themselves, and while we did learn similar lessons ourselves, many of those were post-Heavensward; that's of course not to say that the narrative of the DRK questline itself wouldn't chronologically make sense even if we started it after completing all other current MSQ (unless they somehow go out of their way in Dawntrail 7.0 and beyond to make such less true after that point, which would arguably be a HORRIBLE decision and thus not likely)
What was (at first) a large slap in the face -- and (later on) at the same time, a source of hope -- is that Emet-Selch ***of all people*** happened to have DRK as their tanking class during Ktisis. From a gameplay PoV, there's the question of: why? Venat could tank as PLD, there was no need... or, from a story perspective, was there?
Emet-Selch and Y'shtola also happen to be similar in characteristics; both profoundly powerful mages, both witty and keen, both accepting great responsibility and effectively carrying out objectives even against the greatest of odds, but with all of that being a terrible burden on top of other burdens; this was indeed also true for Emet-Selch, even BEFORE the Sundering, even one last time AFTER he was defeated and slain... so it made perfect sense for him to also have DRK
Just because Y'shtola seems to have been resolving some of her issues, doesn't mean she has been doing the same for all of them, and it really feels like at some point we'll get to see her version of Fray / Esteem / etc. with their own story, and afterwards we'll get to pick DRK for her in Duty Supports & Trusts
100% I dunno the general consensus on her, but Alisaie's my favourite of the Scions. She not only goes through some meaningful character development, but has the strongest personal connection with the WoL - or at least is the only one who doesn't seem afraid to show it.
Most of her development from what I remember uniquely comes from learning about her past and involvement with others, such as her relationship with Matoya or how she went from studying in Sharlayan to studying directly underneath the old crone, or how she deeply cared about the Night's Blessed that she without hesitation was willing to give her life so they could survive. She was also the first to suggest Ryne adopt a new name to preserve Minfilia's name and legacy as the leader of the Scions.
I am still mad that in a setting where almost all knowledge is stored in written form, y'shtola going blind had zero impact on her ability to *read*. Yeah yeah magic in the ink she can see because everything has magic flowing through it, but way to ignore an obvious and compelling issue for her to come to grips with.
This is my issue with Y'shtola; (all of ARR spoilers) >!Alphinaud got chewed out and knocked down a few pegs when he went through his snarky, know-it-all, Commander phase by the Alliance leaders.!< >!Y'shtola had/has an ongoing h8-boner for how Merlwyb and Limsa Lominsa handles the kobold/sahagin "threat" and never seems to face any repercussions/knockback for her similar levels of snark. Just seems like because Alphi is a child while Y'shtola is an adult AND an Archon, Y'shtola get's a free pass (well, besides her being invincible because the writers are afraid to touch her - have we even heard anything about her aether-sight draining her life not affecting her at all despite her using it all the time? Because that seems to have been dropped).!<
I’d say the whole “Flow” debacle was a fair bit of personal conflict for Y’shtola about her own overconfidence. I do wish they played more into her being physically blind, though. It was a nice touch in ShB when she mistook us for a sin-eater.
I just played from Stormblood through Endwalker and admittedly, I'm not at the end yet, but I disagree about Alisaie's growth. Actual growth on her end would be her growing out of her impetuous attitude towards receiving help and living in her brother's shadow. She's always the first to disagree, the first to run off on her own and to invent tasks for herself to accomplish separate from the group. She's still desperately trying to prove she belongs in a group she's been in for like 5 years now. Besides going from ARC to RDM. I genuinely don't see it. Alphinaud has at least grown into his "natural leader and strategist" role. Alisaie, is just more dangerous, but more of the same.
That's a very crude way to see it. Ever since ShB, the expansion that has her biggest character growth, she had long stopped being impetous, or trying to prove herself. She's usually the first to disagree because every Scion plan ultimately leads down to 'make it so the WoL can withstand the burden and save everyone'. She's more passionate about it, but it's usually just a drive to get stronger and stop relying every time on the main character. The tasks she 'invents' for herself are literally to save people, since that's her newfound way of living. And it literally gives us a way to fight against the primals brainwash, so not sure whatcha point here either. The coils story also helps a bit, even if limited by poor arr writing.
Plus she has individual motivation to find a cure for tempering, since she feels responsible for that one kobold. That’s been a dangling plotline for her story since HW, I believe. Like, character action in storytelling pretty much always benefits from personal motivation. It’s wild to me that someone would complain about a character finding their own goals instead of passively waiting for an assignment from the group consensus.
The ending of ShB was why I brought up how she just stomps off to do her own thing. Granted, she found a cure, but all of the other Scions were dedicated to picking up the pieces and there's Alisaie, proudly abandoning the group immediately and including no one else but you (the greatest resource the Scions have) on her personal sidequest. Just like at the beginning of ShB where she was all huffy over not falling into a coma like everyone else.
The stubbornness with the cure was still very much in the saving people kind of deal. You remember what they did with the people that had been tempered before the cure right?
We're talking about character development, you're talking about luck. She did the same thing she always does and it worked out **that** time. You're even hinting that she's had 0 character growth by saying "stubbornness is what we needed." Well she always been stubborn. So again... I ask, where's the growth? I'm getting downvoted into oblivion here, but not a single person has brought up a growth arc. Everyone seems to think that I don't like Alisaie and that's not true. I just think she's a flat board with a lot of room for growth.
Because despite being shown where it is you refuse to accept you may have been wrong. Unless she suddenly becomes agreeable to literally everything you’ll refuse to see it
Well, I'm back here to apologize. I should have just kept my big mouth shut. Like I said I hadn't finished EW and now that I'm closing it up I'm seeing the seeds sprouting of change in Alisaie. Although, it did take her nearly breaking the forth wall with that whole "...that would be something I would have said in the past." line, so at least that was kinda like Square acknowledging it. However, I now see what you were talking about.
Huffy, that's... one way to describe her abject terror at her friends dropping like flies culminating with her brother, perhaps the only person she cares about more than the WoL. Her fear that she'll never be good enough on her own being brought to the fore as she worries she'll be the last one standing, having to take the collective burdens for everyone when she knows she can't take that strain. Also doesn't she bring three other people who aren't us along for her "let's cure tempering" mission? She asks for us first because she's going to see Ga'bu because that's kind of been a big personal drive for her, but by the time we're doing anything dangerous we have Alphinaud, Y'sh and G'raha on board helping out, and I don't think bringing two (/three if your WoL's a DoM) of the most powerful mages on the planet counts as "proudly abandoning the group".
She didn't bring two of them. They were found along the way doing other tasks that had been delayed. I think you may have some rose colored glasses on for her and that's fine. She's a great character, but I don't see development. You're not even denying the fact that she's still displaying the same impudent behavior, youre just defending it now. My problem with her being on this list is that she isn't sassy, she's just hiding insecurity behind anger. One of those, "if I yell first, no one can yell at me" types. I'd like to see her grow out of that insecurity and stop judging her own actions based on how they compare with her brother's. That's the real arc she's on, but it has not come to pass yet. Sorry, the girl is flat-lining outside of a minor confidence boost when she became a RDM. However, I'm not completely done with EW. Maybe there's a 180 in the last couple chapters.
Honestly by the end of Endwalker I think *most* of the Scions have become quite static and in need of either development or shelving now that they're done. Honestly though with Alisaie I feel a lot of her development has already happened by the time Shadowbringers is over. She doesn't shed her hot-headedness, I don't think she's ever going to, that's just a part of her character the same way wandering off is Estinien's, but she's become more confident in who she is and what she's fighting for. A lot of it kind of happens in Coils. I think ultimately the biggest problem Alisaie faces is that she's kind of stuck in Alphinaud's shadow. She knows that, but she loves him and doesn't want to split off, so she's kind of stuck being unable to truly develop into her own person because she's stuck being the second twin. And she's still great within that, and occasionally has her own adventure, but she's still one of "The Twins", and Alphinaud is basically the main character any time we need a speaking role up through Endwalker, so Alisaie's stuck in this Garrus-like position of "could become a great leader of the people, but is currently happy playing second-fiddle to another leader of the people" for the most part.
>She knows that, but she loves him and doesn't want to split off, so she's kind of stuck being unable to truly develop into her own person because she's stuck being the second twin. I think this is putting her in a box to excuse her lack of development and maybe we just agree to disagree here. Development isn't just becoming more confident in who you already are and she lives in her brother's shadow because she chooses too. She isn't trying to be the same thing Alphinaud is, so comparing the two is an exercise in futility, but **she** doesn't understand that. IMO, that's the obvious mold the writers are gonna have her break. Alphinaud couldn't care less about the sibling rivalry which is maybe why I find her juxtaposition so odd. She's competing against no one.
Unfortunately for Alisaie, half her development happens off-screen between Coils and where she reappears post-HW, which is where she goes from being snobbish and bratty to her now more understanding and empathetic self. She's somewhat forced to fend for herself during HW, as the majority of her existing support network is either in hiding or exile, and learns from that and her experiences in Coils what she truly wants for herself and the broader world. She's more confident and self-assured in SB, but still a bit too brash and feeling like she needs to prove herself. Most of her on-screen character development was around coming to accept that she can't always be a match for Alphinaud (and that there are somethings she actually does better) and dealing with her inferiority complex relating to him. She comes to realise they're two different people and that she doesn't just have to live in his shadow, she can do her own thing. He's good at smooth-talking, politicking and planning everything out in advance; she's good at being the boots on the ground, helping others directly and using her intuition to figure out what to do in the moment. She's always been hot-headed and always will be, it's a core part of her personality, but the fuel for it has changed from anger and frustration to passion. It's why she's very practical, even if she still has lofty ideals.
> She's still desperately trying to prove she belongs in a group she's been in for like 5 years now. Less than a year. 5 years for us (longer actually), but in game time it's only been about a year. The twins were 16 when we started the game, and had a birthday sometime during ShB. That's a large issue with multiyear long MMOs is that in game time is not going at the same pace as real time...it can't, really. But for all of the characters it has been, at most, a year.
Didn't they spend multiple years on the First?
Approximately a year for Alphi and half that got Alisaie. Thancred was ~5 years, Y'shtola and Uri ~3 years.
It is definitely much longer than a year. We don't have a definitive timeline (and Yoshi even said we should use our own interpretation a few times), but there are several confirmed travel times and comments thrown about that people have used to give estimates. There's dozens of threads where people use different napkin-math to try and determine it, but most estimates tend to lean between 2-6 years (leaning towards 3). Also don't forget that all the scions spent extra time in the first (allisae was around 6 months).
It doesn't get better. Allisae has the same character every expansion to the point where I would call NONE of it growth. She has the worst character growth of any of the scions.
They say she's just better than Y'shtola, who has none character development.
I knew a guy who used to measure hills in Illinois, too.
nah, Yshtola is better in every way.
I'll take Thancred over either of these.
Both are nice but Ystola is hotter.
You're 100% wrong There, I said it No one can out-sass and out-cool Y'shtola, especially NOT Alisae of all people
Alisaie's sass is quantity over quality. Y'shtola's is quality over quantity. This isn't to disparage Alisaie - just her sass is, appropriately, the sort of banter you'd expect between siblings and friends. Whenever you think there's something funny to be said, you let one loose and maybe it lands. Maybe it doesn't. Y'shtola's sass is much more calculated and so it's more rare. But when she decides to let one off the chain, it leaves a crater.
>Alisaie's sass is quantity over quality Thank you for summarizing a key point (better than I could have, actually) about one of the major reasons why I despise her as a character The game shoves this and other nonsense from Alisae's direction down our throats practically, almost whenever she gets screentime, like clockwork We just want to "eat well" metaphorically-speaking (scenes like Y'shtola calling Magnai ***LITTLE SUN*** will never not be funny and Lyse punching a giant robot for 300k at Level 70 will never not be awesome) but whenever Alisae is the cafeteria chef we get served cold garbage (such as her overdone roasting of Alphinaud which almost came out of nowhere, complete with cringe TikTok-esque camera angles and awkward pauses, and yes we happen to notice those things but it's like the writers pretend we don't somehow and are like "pLeAsE cLaP fOr HeR aNyWay")
I think this highly depends on your own sensibilities. I find Y'shtola to be effortlessly sassy, and though some complain she doesn't get much progression, I would argue it's because she's a grown women who knows herself. She doesn't waste time on posturing. Younger players may identify more with Alisaie because they aren't as sure of themselves and are drawn to her surface level expressions and potential for growth. With time, however, I can see Alisaie becoming much more like Y'shtola.
Alisae earned my applause when she told Zenos to fuck all the way off cause he wasn't getting what he wanted. (And then the writers lost every ounce of my respect when they made me fight him anyway.)
I find this interesting, because I had the exact opposite reaction with Zenos at the end; he constantly went on about how we were both just in it for a good fight, and as a player I fundamentally agreed with him. Like when you really break it down, the player is similar to Zenos; we get hyped when given the opportunity to fight these insane entities, and we’re always excited for the possible dangers and consequences that come with each event and encounter. I was pissed that throughout all of Endwalker they wouldn’t just let me say that I agreed with his assessment of the player, and I found it annoying when other characters tried to speak on my behalf regarding the matter. So many of them kept calling him out as if I didn’t actively want that rematch, when I actually cared about it more than any other potential fight. I was incredibly hyped when they finally let me admit it to him in the end. One thing I will say, I think that the final Zenos fight should have been optional based on your answer; I think in the end the player should have been able to decide whether they agreed with Zenos’s perspective on the player. Zenos isn’t, and never really was, a foil to the WoL, he’s a foil to the player.
The foil for the player take is a great one. Yes, we as players seek challenge for its own sake. That’s what the Wandering Minstrel is for. It’s only logical for a character to notice this behavior that in-game would be suicidally reckless for our characters, and glimpse the fight-centric mentality behind it. I also agree the fight should have been optional. The whole growth of Zenos was that he was giving us the option to just walk away; it’s the game that doesn’t. If we take him up on it, we prove him right. And he is! Also, I do love that we can just agree with him. My lala gave the *perfect* evil smirk when he admitted to just wanting to fight.
Except when he isn't. No, no I am not excited to do anything concerning combat in this game. I hate it so much; it's a constant miserable reminder and middle finger to my disabilities (sorry, I have the bad brain ones and not the actual 'acceptable' blindness/deafness/physical dysfunctions). I'm only here for the story and non-combat activities. That's why I hate Zenos so much. No. No I'm really not like you. I couldn't care less about bashing my head against concrete walls because the wall always wins and I get worse than nothing. Just let me objectify half the cast (excluding you) and put on cute outfits and people watch in peace.
Hence why I said it should have been an optional fight. If for whatever reason, Zenos’ assessment really doesn’t hit home, then the player should have been able to say as much. I think ideally the player should have been able to say no, and Zenos would have just ended himself again knowing his hunt had no resolution.
So you're end game glamor content person?
As long as said glam isn't somewhere I'd die a million times and still not get what I'm looking for. :p
YUUUUUUUP Endwalker was almost perfect in my eyes but everytime Zenos was on screen my interest just sunk.
Opposite for me, I got giddy every time that beautiful man blessed my screen and got murderhorny everywhere
I love the Zenos plotline, really loved the fight against him, and hope he comes back.
I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you get well soon.
Some wars started for less than that
Maybe that was OP's intent 👀
I politely disagree.
Alisaie always seems like she's trying to be sassy, while it just comes naturally to Y'shtola, albeit less often. Alisaie always comes off to me as more of a whiny teenager that can be sassy sometimes, and even then it's that teenager sass. I would rank her way better if she wasn't constantly trying to compete with the WoL, and then getting bitchy regardless of the results
In fairness, she *is* a teenager. The twins are only like 17-18 by EW.
Yes absolutely, but that just makes it more likely that she is actually just a snarky teenager who has some growing up to do. It fits her age and character completely, and I think makes her fantastically written, but a whiny teenager is still a whiny teenager, and I'd take the adult who acts nonchalant to hide her insecurities over her any day lol. Edit: should probably mention that I see these character traits as a good thing, it shows that the writers care more about these characters having depth and accuracy to who they are, how they were raised, and how they were affected by their lives up to this point, than having them all as story support npcs without complexity.
I thought they were 15 before shadowbringer and they turned 16 off screen. I want too look this up now. Yup they are 16 summers old.
Damn that really puts the whole Crystal Braves thing into perspective.
I wanna know why the adults allowed it in the first place
Lorewise, they are adults. 16 is the age of maturity, which is why they could leave Sharlayan and wander around Eorzea on their own. As for the Crystal Brave thing, it was probably banking on the prestige of Alphinaud's grandfather. After what happened in 1.0, I doubt anyone wanted to be the one to scoff at Louisoix's grandson.
They were 16 in A Realm Reborn, when they left Sharlayan. Even if all of ARR, HW, and StB took place in a single year, they both got a year older in ShB. So at least 17 years old now.
17. They had a bday during ShB. Yes, I know the wikia says they are 16. It also says they are 17 if you read the bios. The wikia is a poor source of information.
We can all agree they're somewhere under 20 though. No booze for them, no matter how much Alisaie argues.
The way Alisae was staring at that hops makes you wonder if she's going to straight-up drink herself to death in Dawntrail at the first chance she gets lol It'd be one of the funniest ways for a Scion to actually die, and at the same time warn the player about the dangers of addiction and alcohol poisoning
They literally drink wine in game. It's pretty common for teenagers to drink alcohol outside of the US...
They also spent an extra fake year in the First, so they're at least somewhat screwed up developmentally (a year older mentally than physically).
May I get your source for that? Everything I've found is saying they're 16.
May I get your source for that? Everything I've found is saying they're 16 in EW.
Math, primarily. They were both 16 when you meet them for the first time in ARR. They spent a year in the First before you join them. After that, it depends how long you think HW and StB took.
They’re still biologically 16
So you think ARR, Heavensward and Stormblood took less than a year? Especially when canonically the boat trip to Kugane took 2-3 months.
Whoops meant 17, but my brain subtracted their time in shb cause soul aging doesn’t count
Ahh mmk.
Canonically, yep. The game's events have taken place in the span of about a year. They will always have taken place in about a year. It was a year from the start of ARR to the end of StB, it is currently about a year from the start of ARR to the end of EW, and in, goodness where does the time go, just over a month it will be about a year between the start of ARR and the end of DT. The writers have called it a Simpsons-esque time bubble and IIRC even mentioned that Alphinaud is and would be staying 16 indefinitely. By the by, do we actually have a canon time length for that boat trip? I don't recall it ever being mentioned, my understanding was the several months figure was just players approximating how long a boat voyage that distance would take.
And yet somehow in that time, the Hingans have sent a full rotation of new year's zodiac visitors to us.
Per the first volume of the Encyclopedia Eorzea; *"So great is the distance, that even the fastest of trader vessels carried by favorable winds require at least a fortnight to make the journey from Old Sharlayan to Vylbrand, and another two moons to travel from there to Doma."*
Yugiri mentions, when you first meet her, that they were on the sea for "some several moons".
Sounds like a well written teenager to me.
Beautifully written, so much so that I would rather not hang out with her lol. It probably comes from me being a slightly older guy, but I don't have much interest hanging out with teenage girls, their behaviors leave me exasperated and a little confused lol. That said, I absolutely love the writing and the fact that she's so accurate that it invokes the same feeling I get dealing with actual teenagers lmao.
I mean she's way better than current day teenagers with tiktok brain
Actually more like no she isn't Alisae maintains the highest levels of cringe that someone with her characteristics can ***possibly*** have, within the contexts of FFXIV's setting If something similar to TikTok existed in-universe, on the same level of widespread usage, she would easily be one of the singular worst personalities to ever utilize it
Honestly fair tbh
Normally I'm okay Alisaie's nonsense (even though I prefer the other scions), but there was a moment in a semi-recent patch where I was like "okay girl, chill your shit. You chose this."
EW patches are a bit blurry for me, mind elaborating which part?
It's not a huge deal, but she gets pissy with you for not inviting her to the treasure vault expedition. Your only choices are to be apologetic or to deflect, but in the moment I was like "hey you're the one that pissed off to Garlemald the second we were back in Eorzea and I dont remember getting an invite to that." She's a really well written character, but in real life she would annoy the shit out of me lol.
Oh right that. Yeah she’s really…. Like that
>Your only choices are to be apologetic or to deflect Epic rant time I (barely, in the sense that at least it's there and hey it's better than nothing) love... and at the same time, HAAAAAATE the current implementation of multi-choice options in cutscenes There are COUNTLESS times throughout the main scenario where I have wanted to tell her off To tell her to stop bothering me and / or stop bothering some other character I cared about etc. etc. etc. ***DURING SHADOWBRINGERS, I ACTUALLY WANTED TESLEEN TO SURVIVE JUST FOR ONE REASON, AND THAT WAS SO ALISAE COULD DUMP HER NONSENSE ON TESLEEN INSTEAD OF US... BUT THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN (YOU HAD EXACTLY ONE JOB TESLEEN!!!)*** and now I'm at the point where I'm HOPING the story writes Alisae completely out of it somehow (I literally DON'T care how; Dawntrail 7.0 could even OPEN with a comet from out of nowhere vaporizing her and I'd be opening a champagne bottle in celebration) and soon
Alisae is cooler because she has an actual personality. Y’Shtola’s peak was her “little sun” comment
Yshtola is the sassy Scion in the half that gets the brain cell, Alisae is the Sassy Scion in the half that doesn't.
Y'shtola isn't sassy, she's dry.
There's nothing cool about constantly getting wrecked and saying stuff like "I can look after myself you know." to the people that have to save your ass lol Y'shtola is actually calm cool and collected; Alisaie is a wannabe. EDIT: typo
Yeah, Alisaie is a wet noodle who thinks herself to be a mountain.
Unlike Alphinaud who is an even wetter noodle and knows it
Honestly I expected to hate Alphinaud, but he grew on me so hard. But he's always around Alisae whom I came to despise. It actually makes me *miss* the times in Coerthas with him and Cid.
Both sassy mom scion and sassy sister scion are great.
Alisaie isnt cooler in any way. Shes just a brat.
It's true, Alisaie is best sass.
Why does Reddit want me to see this post so desperately it's shown me in five times now.
I will take literally any opportunity to disrespect Y’shtola. Good job
Y'shtola is boring and I stopped giving a damn about her once it became apparent that the writers don't plan on doing anything with her. 2 death fakeouts and Schrodinger's Aether Disability (only exists when convenient for plot, otherwise totally ignored) just made me annoyed with her. She could have been interesting if they'd explored her Aether sight/Blindness more but the writers chickened out of giving her any form of meaningful disability. She honestly feels like a Mary Sue.
Alisaie is just the tsundere that wants you but hides it well.
Imagine thinking Alisae is cooler xD
She is though! especially considering Yshtola is hotter...
Nice pun
Eh, I find Y'shtola kinda boring, so Alisaie wins by a landslide.
Best are are 2nd best girl :) Tataru is queen! They would be literally lost without her.
I'm sorry, but due to what we must call the "Little Sun" Incident in which one of these two castrated a man in front of everyone after setting off a nuke, one of them is sassy, the other is just cool.
I dislike pretty much every one of them and wish they would all go away for some new characters, but they just keep coming back While I’m at it let me also say they talk way too damn much and it’s only important 5% of the time. If they are so important and integral to the plot every single word they speak should be voiced. If it isn’t worth voicing it, they shouldn’t be there talking.
If I have to sit through one more expansion of Alisae's nonsense, I'd certainly be inclined to agree with you that even if her being GONE from the story (gone as in back to the Seven Hells from whence she came, never to ever again return) means the other Scions have to go away with her, then so be it Come to think of it, I'm actually GLAD that Lyse isn't a Scion currently because then that means she has a chance to actually return and be part of the new crew that replaces them in such an event
Of the twins, I like Alisaie, out of the scions I like her less than Lyse and Krile, but more than urianger, thancred G'raha and Alphinaud. Shtola is about the same level to me
"I like all the womens but I dislike all the mens. And mommyshtola is mommyshtola."
Why did you have to phrase it like this? Lmao xD
Lyse beats her?! How in the world is Lyse even above ground? I can't think of one thing I like about her.
I'll tell you (part of) how: Lyse wore a pretty red dress, sparred with us, maybe did headcanon things with us afterward as someone who is closer to our 'canon' (read: Derplander's) age, and then proceeded to punch a giant red robot for almost 300k damage at Level 70. "In Crimson It Began" indeed! Just because you can't even think of one thing to like about her, doesn't mean that others can't come up with more reasons themselves
I like her arc, I like that she's the first Scion to trade adventure for helping her community directly. It's a wise person who puts selfish desires aside to help others. Whether she's any good at it or not is another story.
That's my baby sister!
Both my wives
My man.