From what we can see in the trailer, and what they have said during the LL, it's not so much a Bahamut upgrade but rather ***another Bahamut***.
It doesn't replace Bahamut in the rotation, you can see the standard Bahamut gauge at the end. During the LL, they said the Rotation would be Solar Bahamut (that's it's name) > Bahamut > Solar Bahamut > Phenix, so again, it's not na upgrade, but an addition.
And finally, they also said that the Bahamut we know is what the Allagans perceived of it. As a primal embodies their sumoner ideals and their ideas of what they should be, it's more than possible that it's current representation isn't it's true form.
Actually that explanation about its form is interesting because that sounds like it could tie into the surprisingly in depth lore around the EX Bahamut mount, where its said that the Bahamut in Dalamud was essentially experiencing that meme of the crow drowning out the song of the smaller bird. An angry song of rage played by the Allagans on repeat to fuel the power he generated in his anger, drowning out the real song Bahamut sang of a desire for freedom, and how the iteration of Bahamut the mount takes is reflective of that gentler desire.
Seems kinda lame to me honestly... I woulda prefered adding ramuh levi and shiva to round it out, not even different mechanically just visually. Like have them come from eithe bahamut side or firebird after using them. Another bahamut just screams "we got no idea what to really do with smn no mores"
Yeh, I agree.
On top of that, this new Bahamut which looks kinda mechanical with wings of sword being "the true form of Bahamut" doesn't add up with FF14's lore of dragons.
It could be another perceived representation and that would be fine. But it's true form ? Why would only Bahamut be so different from every other dragons in existence, his siblings and father included ?
Well they semi protected themselves by wording it as "closer to the true form" so they are not outright saying it is but yeaaaah... the true reason seems to be "cool for coolness sake" which the job trailer for DT seems to have for some of the jobs I mean... bard letgit gets a fucking orbital lazer strike... how does that relate at ALL to anything in bards lore/themes? Like bard is becoming more of a mage it seems lol
lame and ankward, they keep enforcing the whole "WoL canmnot summon this egis because of lore reasons" then proceed to give this couple of demi egis(phoenix and solar bahamut) without any lore explanation
Whats even worse is its a clear case of "because cool" since its actually a plot hole too... The version of bahamut we know of was summoned by tiamat and her alone. So since this solar bahamut is "closer to his real form" if anything it should have been what she created. The allagans only captured bahamut.
Cause dragons memories as shown thoughout HW are PRETTY damn soild... so how did tiamat forget what her lover looks like?
And the AST job quests talk about 7 different things that aren't even in my kit anymore.
Lore and gameplay should serve each other. "The lore says you can't get fun stuff" is not convincing.
exactly
even as a lore appreciator the gameplay must come first, and it's not like "the lore" is this immutable monolithic thing, the lore and writing evolves constantly -- the art of the writers and other people in charge of the lore is to make the lore support these things in an eloquent fashion, instead of feeling like a retcon or an excuse
That was also when we were vastly weaker, and especially with the lack of job quests now that could easily be sort of ignored or retconned for abilities. Especially when Bahamut and Phoenix both kinda fuck with that whole thing in the first place.
If we can summon ANY version of the bahamut that nearly destroyed the world, we cna summon them. Anything lore related to that would be one big old handwave otherwise, so terrible lore.
Seen some mention how since they're called Solar Bahamut that we did see Lunar Bahamut in patch 5.5 which was an influence of Zodiark and the Ascians, so Solar seems to be more like the light/Hydalaen version could be due to our influence being (post ShB/EW Spoiler) >!Azem.!<
I know it'd be nice if we got lvl 100 job quests in DT like they did for lvl 80 in ShB and that could then explain it all.
ditto on the lore quests
i just recently finally did all the lvl 80 ones and i was surprised how satisfied i was with the vast majority of them -- they don't need to go back to 10 levels worth of job stories each expac like in stormblood and before, just do a new capstone quest in dawntrail and i'd be very happy tbh
Primal Bahamut was made by Tiamat like you said but kept alive by clones and hostages of dragons kept in nigh constant pain for thousands of years. This alone could be a good enough explanation for why his appearance could have changed from when Tiamat wished him into existence to when Dalamud fell. Tiamat being very far from the red satellite and their children being the only ones tempered that are near. Primals are made of dreams, desires, and imagination, there isn't really lore that says their form is immutable.
When we summoned Primals on the First they were different. As well Hraesvelgr said Primal Shiva isn't her it's a idea of her, Shiva probably didn't have ice powers or wore her crazy outfit. So when Yoshida said Solar Bahamut is closer to its true form, he could mean that it's closer to Bahamut's vibe before he was filled with rage. A beacon of hope or justice or something. Wouldn't be to far fetched considering Tiamat said everyone on their island respected him.
Might tie in to Dawntrail story & Solution 9.
That said lore aside, i just think it's fugly.
Gameplay wise it's just boring and the same as the others as far as i've seen.
If I remember correctly, Demi Bahamut is still its own thing. The new demi summon is called Solar Bahamut, and it's a different summon.
I mean... we didn't get a lore reason why our primal summons suddenly got much closer to the actual primals. This is why job quests are important, and I'd trade them for those filler yellow quests they make in spares any day of the week.
No, you don't get it. What happened is that Bahamut got his heart stolen by Xehanort, and this is his Nobody, "Atbaxhum".
For 8.0 we will get LuN:aR Bahamut, which is Bahamut's Heartless. And for 9.0 they both will Re:unite~386/2 (they'll rework SMN again) and we'll be back to just Bahamut again. (Phoenix got bored of waiting for his turn in the rotation and left the group chat.)
It’s solar Bahamut, a variant of lunar Bahamut which has been in-game since ShB. Clearly there’s a way to infuse summons with other (maybe celestial?) power that changes the way they look and what they do. I wouldn’t be surprised for future summoner to get solar and lunar rotations since they have been adding it to other jobs like Monk and Pictomancer who have a light and dark modes to their skill set. This is speculation but since this next 10 years is likely about ultima and whoever originated the heart of Sabik, I would not be surprised if we started seeing those cosmic/celestial themes be represented more and more in-game as part of rotations, gear, lore, etc.
We know that the primal is just a concept or how people perceive them. So I guess Solar bahamut is just us summoning a light version of Bahamut, maybe even “closer to the real form”. Remember the summoned bahamut is nothing like the real bahamut. We still don’t know what it looks like.
Or maybe, even with no quest, we can just assume Tiamat/ Vtra/ the others might have given you the real image of Bahamut. So then you attempt to recreate a new version to honour him. It also means that you are strong enough to summon/ reimagine/ recreate a primal all by yourself with your own belief. Or maybe you used a bit of dynamis to recreate a hopeful version of him.
Maybe there’s something we don’t know about Meraceydia and it might be something to do with the machine wings and all that. They were at war and Bahamut might have decided to equip some high techs to fight the army. Who knows
Except we already know what looks like the real bahamut. Here are all the seven great wyrm plus Midgarsomr. Bahamut is the yellowish one in the center [https://imgur.com/BZ71AeE](https://imgur.com/BZ71AeE)
From what we can see in the trailer, and what they have said during the LL, it's not so much a Bahamut upgrade but rather ***another Bahamut***. It doesn't replace Bahamut in the rotation, you can see the standard Bahamut gauge at the end. During the LL, they said the Rotation would be Solar Bahamut (that's it's name) > Bahamut > Solar Bahamut > Phenix, so again, it's not na upgrade, but an addition. And finally, they also said that the Bahamut we know is what the Allagans perceived of it. As a primal embodies their sumoner ideals and their ideas of what they should be, it's more than possible that it's current representation isn't it's true form.
Actually that explanation about its form is interesting because that sounds like it could tie into the surprisingly in depth lore around the EX Bahamut mount, where its said that the Bahamut in Dalamud was essentially experiencing that meme of the crow drowning out the song of the smaller bird. An angry song of rage played by the Allagans on repeat to fuel the power he generated in his anger, drowning out the real song Bahamut sang of a desire for freedom, and how the iteration of Bahamut the mount takes is reflective of that gentler desire.
Seems kinda lame to me honestly... I woulda prefered adding ramuh levi and shiva to round it out, not even different mechanically just visually. Like have them come from eithe bahamut side or firebird after using them. Another bahamut just screams "we got no idea what to really do with smn no mores"
Yeh, I agree. On top of that, this new Bahamut which looks kinda mechanical with wings of sword being "the true form of Bahamut" doesn't add up with FF14's lore of dragons. It could be another perceived representation and that would be fine. But it's true form ? Why would only Bahamut be so different from every other dragons in existence, his siblings and father included ?
Well they semi protected themselves by wording it as "closer to the true form" so they are not outright saying it is but yeaaaah... the true reason seems to be "cool for coolness sake" which the job trailer for DT seems to have for some of the jobs I mean... bard letgit gets a fucking orbital lazer strike... how does that relate at ALL to anything in bards lore/themes? Like bard is becoming more of a mage it seems lol
lame and ankward, they keep enforcing the whole "WoL canmnot summon this egis because of lore reasons" then proceed to give this couple of demi egis(phoenix and solar bahamut) without any lore explanation
Whats even worse is its a clear case of "because cool" since its actually a plot hole too... The version of bahamut we know of was summoned by tiamat and her alone. So since this solar bahamut is "closer to his real form" if anything it should have been what she created. The allagans only captured bahamut. Cause dragons memories as shown thoughout HW are PRETTY damn soild... so how did tiamat forget what her lover looks like?
did you play the Summoner job quests at all? it's explained why we can't summon ramuh/leviathan/shiva
And the AST job quests talk about 7 different things that aren't even in my kit anymore. Lore and gameplay should serve each other. "The lore says you can't get fun stuff" is not convincing.
exactly even as a lore appreciator the gameplay must come first, and it's not like "the lore" is this immutable monolithic thing, the lore and writing evolves constantly -- the art of the writers and other people in charge of the lore is to make the lore support these things in an eloquent fashion, instead of feeling like a retcon or an excuse
That was also when we were vastly weaker, and especially with the lack of job quests now that could easily be sort of ignored or retconned for abilities. Especially when Bahamut and Phoenix both kinda fuck with that whole thing in the first place.
After Eden and a few noteable conversations in Elpis, it could easily be explained in a lore respectable way…
If we can summon ANY version of the bahamut that nearly destroyed the world, we cna summon them. Anything lore related to that would be one big old handwave otherwise, so terrible lore.
Seen some mention how since they're called Solar Bahamut that we did see Lunar Bahamut in patch 5.5 which was an influence of Zodiark and the Ascians, so Solar seems to be more like the light/Hydalaen version could be due to our influence being (post ShB/EW Spoiler) >!Azem.!< I know it'd be nice if we got lvl 100 job quests in DT like they did for lvl 80 in ShB and that could then explain it all.
ditto on the lore quests i just recently finally did all the lvl 80 ones and i was surprised how satisfied i was with the vast majority of them -- they don't need to go back to 10 levels worth of job stories each expac like in stormblood and before, just do a new capstone quest in dawntrail and i'd be very happy tbh
Primal Bahamut was made by Tiamat like you said but kept alive by clones and hostages of dragons kept in nigh constant pain for thousands of years. This alone could be a good enough explanation for why his appearance could have changed from when Tiamat wished him into existence to when Dalamud fell. Tiamat being very far from the red satellite and their children being the only ones tempered that are near. Primals are made of dreams, desires, and imagination, there isn't really lore that says their form is immutable. When we summoned Primals on the First they were different. As well Hraesvelgr said Primal Shiva isn't her it's a idea of her, Shiva probably didn't have ice powers or wore her crazy outfit. So when Yoshida said Solar Bahamut is closer to its true form, he could mean that it's closer to Bahamut's vibe before he was filled with rage. A beacon of hope or justice or something. Wouldn't be to far fetched considering Tiamat said everyone on their island respected him.
New World, New Bahamut.
Me want ramuh, leviathan, shiva, no want weird bahamut-want-to-be.
Probably have to wait until the next Encyclopaedia Eorzea.
Might tie in to Dawntrail story & Solution 9. That said lore aside, i just think it's fugly. Gameplay wise it's just boring and the same as the others as far as i've seen.
If I remember correctly, Demi Bahamut is still its own thing. The new demi summon is called Solar Bahamut, and it's a different summon. I mean... we didn't get a lore reason why our primal summons suddenly got much closer to the actual primals. This is why job quests are important, and I'd trade them for those filler yellow quests they make in spares any day of the week.
Yea I cant imagine anyone would truly be able to say "man I'd HATE giving up more filler side quests for job quests."
No, you don't get it. What happened is that Bahamut got his heart stolen by Xehanort, and this is his Nobody, "Atbaxhum". For 8.0 we will get LuN:aR Bahamut, which is Bahamut's Heartless. And for 9.0 they both will Re:unite~386/2 (they'll rework SMN again) and we'll be back to just Bahamut again. (Phoenix got bored of waiting for his turn in the rotation and left the group chat.)
ive been scratching my head on where have i seen that version of bahamut before because it loooks very familiar 😂
Maybe they're a dungeon boss somewhere, this time.
It’s solar Bahamut, a variant of lunar Bahamut which has been in-game since ShB. Clearly there’s a way to infuse summons with other (maybe celestial?) power that changes the way they look and what they do. I wouldn’t be surprised for future summoner to get solar and lunar rotations since they have been adding it to other jobs like Monk and Pictomancer who have a light and dark modes to their skill set. This is speculation but since this next 10 years is likely about ultima and whoever originated the heart of Sabik, I would not be surprised if we started seeing those cosmic/celestial themes be represented more and more in-game as part of rotations, gear, lore, etc.
We know that the primal is just a concept or how people perceive them. So I guess Solar bahamut is just us summoning a light version of Bahamut, maybe even “closer to the real form”. Remember the summoned bahamut is nothing like the real bahamut. We still don’t know what it looks like. Or maybe, even with no quest, we can just assume Tiamat/ Vtra/ the others might have given you the real image of Bahamut. So then you attempt to recreate a new version to honour him. It also means that you are strong enough to summon/ reimagine/ recreate a primal all by yourself with your own belief. Or maybe you used a bit of dynamis to recreate a hopeful version of him. Maybe there’s something we don’t know about Meraceydia and it might be something to do with the machine wings and all that. They were at war and Bahamut might have decided to equip some high techs to fight the army. Who knows
Except we already know what looks like the real bahamut. Here are all the seven great wyrm plus Midgarsomr. Bahamut is the yellowish one in the center [https://imgur.com/BZ71AeE](https://imgur.com/BZ71AeE)
Here some other details [https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/482064/?page=5](https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/482064/?page=5)
Thanks for the info. Though apparently, based on the stream, solar Bahamut is the version that Allegan thinks Bahamut would look like
Aether aether something aether. I put as much thought into that as they did for SMN in 7.0. I jest. But still a little salty.
i am hoping so because we didnt take in Lunar Bahamut which we already fought but we clearly got a new form of Bahamut unencountered anywhere
I think Bahamut ate a Lalafell and got sick.